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IT WEIGHS 5K, it is crammed full of facts, figures, pictures, documents and incredible art – and it tells the full story of Ireland’s revolutionary history from 1913 – 1923.
The Atlas of Irish Revolutionary History is nominated in the Best Irish Published Book of the Year category at this year’s Bord Gáis Energy Irish Book Awards, sponsored by TheJournal.ie. The book is published by Cork University Press.
One of its editors, Dr John Crowley from the Department of Geography in UCC – who worked alongside Donal Ó Drisceoil, Mike Murphy and associate editor John Borgonovo on the atlas – said that books like this and its predecessor, the Atlas of the Irish Famine “are legacy projects and they are huge undertakings and a huge investment of time and energy”.
“You don’t go into them lightly – you have to take a conscious decision to give it your all,” he said of working on the book.
The work of a huge amount of scholars and academics is featured in the atlas, as they examine a large range of topics such as the Home Rule crisis, the 1916 Rising, and the Civil War.
And because it covers such hugely important events in Irish history, the editors were cognisant of the fact there are varying and sometimes opposite opinions on these events.
“I think it was important to be as inclusive as possible of all the different shades of opinion,” said Crowley. “There were over 100 scholars involved – they had different angles, different arguments, and it was very important to get that sense of inclusivity across.”
For him, the atlas presents a “complicated narrative” of Irish history during this 10-year period.
“Complicating the narrative means to challenge the accepted narrative about the period and I think that’s maybe what the book does in the end: it complicates the narrative, it’s challenging, it’s nuanced, it’s not straightforward. It creates a new space for approaching the past which has been very contentious.”
He said that people “can come to absorb the material, stand back, and maybe make a decision then”. Overall, the aim was to create a book which had “that space for understanding and for reflection”, which Crowley said is very important.
The book is full of incredible artworks depicting life and incidents during this period, as well as new maps which give a great visual insight into data about that time.
The use of images – and extended, informative captions – are part of how the atlas shows that at UCC, their remit goes beyond scholarship and into public outreach, said Crowley. The book is for everyone, he said – not just academics.
The book is hugely substantial, and given its size and weight, isn’t something you’d be reading while in bed.
But it is a book that rewards dipping in and out, reading a chapter or section at a time, or flicking through and seeing what piques your interest. With sections dedicated to gender, class, and all the different sides to the conflict, it also takes in many varying views. Spanning history, geography, art history, sociology and archaeology, it’s hugely in-depth and an eye-opening read.
Crowley said that as an editor “you’re very humble when you engage in these types of projects”, given the scale of the work and information that goes into it.
The huge public reaction to the 1916 celebrations points to people’s interest in reassessing and commemorating Irish history, said Crowley. “This book is building on that type of reaction and it’s going to last right up to 1923,” he said.
Four years in the making, the atlas was “an intense project but a very worthwhile project and something that hopefully will have a legacy down the line”, said Crowley.
“And that’s why you do them – it’s not about ourselves, it’s something that will give people the opportunity to connect with their past in a different way.
The book is monumental in scope – it’s almost a monument itself, but it does create that space for more reflection.
The Atlas of the Irish Revolution is out now, priced at €59, and can be ordered from Cork University Press.
To vote for your favourite nominated book in the Irish Book Awards, visit the official website.
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That’s horrible. What a complete and utter clusterf*ck; if we go to rescue them, the people who make money from smuggling these people will look at it as a cost cutter and send out more dangerous and substandard craft. If we don’t rescue them we condemn them to a horrific death. It’s such a multilayered issue; we can’t have a welfare state with open borders. The two are incompatible.
true
@Vin, I don’t think it works that way. Hope is the last thing that drives theses migrants, Hope to reach West, Hope to live and Hope for better life. So they will keep on coming no matter what.
For the traffickers, they don’t care about the migrant lives, all they care about is Money. They know we care about lives and we will keep on saving them no matter what. So they will keep on sending them. There is no thinking involved for either of the situations.
The refugee crisis is an inevitable by product of a world ravaged by capitalism and imperialism. Europe has the resources to ensure the welfare of all its people and many many millions more. It is a political and ideological choice which sees the vast wealth produced by humanity being confiscated by fewer and fewer hands. The choice facing us is socialism or barbarism and the latter is clearly visible in this Mediterranean slaughter.
We have a moral obligation to help as many people as we can.
I agree Anne to a point. I don’t think we have a moral obligation to the point of complete detriment of our society and our children’s future. There’s a line here somewhere I just don’t know where.
Coddler, you can’t move these people into Europe unchecked and undocumented. It’s madness. Every time we accept these people it will encourage more. We need to find a way to encourage them to stay in their own countries which would be easier if the UK and France would refrain from bombing them.
If ever there was an argument for deconstructing overly powerful nation states…
If they would stop their vicious, self-serving collusion with the arms industry and their covert funding of terrorist organisations, we might be onto something. I agree with Richard Dawkins, load up those fighter jets with books, because ultimately, the only way the mess ever gets solved is through education and reconciliation.
Europe cannot just turn its back on these people, when it has helped created the conditions that have forced them to flee.
Coddler, you say Europe has the resources to ensure the welfare of all its people and many many millions more.
How many more millions Coddler. Give me a figure. How many do you think Ireland can support, again an actual figure please.
The population of Africa is 1.2 billion which is estimated to double by 2050 and quadruple by the end of the century. How many of them do you think Ireland can support?
Onto another point, you know we all read the story about the Muslims throwing Christians overboard on one of these boats but another story the media don’t investigate (like the claim the boat capsized because people moved to one side when LÉ Niamh approached) is the claim that it is Christians who are actually put in the hold on these boats so that if they do sink, they die first.
Socialism is fine until you run out of other people’s money.
Gkrell,
Can you give me the number of people you are prepared to allow drown in the Mediterranean?
An actual figure please?
None of the vociferous ‘take them all in’ advocates addressed my little conundrum from yesterday, so I will honestly pose it again in good faith:
Here’s an irksome fact. Riddle me this.
It says in the article above 342 of the 367 people saved were men. Young, healthy, virile men (Which is also glaringly evident from the photos in the articles)
If these were genuine refugees, would there not be multiples more women and children ?
These guys are NOT genuine refugees. There may be some genuine cases among all the chancers, but impossible to know without documentation.
Also in the below extract I quote from CNN in June you will see a similar breakdown of numbers … WHERE ARE THESE GUYS’ FAMILIES!!!?? Have they heartlessly left them in war torn regions, and simply ‘upped and left’ their families?
Or heaven forgive me for asking such an awkward question ….. Is there something else going on here?
There are none so blind as those who won’t see.
“Two German naval ships that coordinated Saturday’s rescue of thousands of migrants north of the Libyan coast are on their way to Sicily to drop them off, a spokesman for Germany’s Bundeswehr Joint Forces Operation Command told CNN on Sunday.
The two ships, the Berlin and the Hessen, picked up 1,411 migrants from four vessels Saturday — 939 men, 327 women and 145 children. In just one vessel there were 563 migrants, the spokesman said.”
In my opinion, the burden of dealing with the influx of these people should fall on those countries that participated in the events that have contributed so massively to the tragic situation we’re seeing develop. France, the US and the UK; looking in your direction….
Yes but, wasn’t it the Snowden leaks that suggest that those very countries already have plans in place to start bombing the Med and all the villages and fishing boats that are carrying refugees?
The argument that we can’t bring people in because it will change our society is a nonsense. We change society all the time- by acts and thoughts of cruelty we create a crueller world, by kindness, a kinder one.
These tragedies are all symptoms of an unhealthy money obsessed war-torn asymmetric world.
That’s what needs to be ultimately addressed.
More diversion tactics from Coddler, come on Coddler. You said Europe can support many millions of Migrants from Africa and the Middle East. Tell me please how many millions. Tell me how many you think Ireland can support. Saying feel good stuff is easy but I want the figures.
I said this down below but I think it’s so good I’m going to say it again here!
What sad f8ck sits online pretending to be a whole gang of racist people all day?
Answer: Some ar8eh0le who thinks 8 weeks foetuses should be respected as humans but someone with brown skin shouldn’t. That’s who.
@Anne, you are living on another planet if you think that bringing unlimited numbers of these people in is going to see us living in a kinder world. I don’t have the patience to elaborate and spell it out to you exactly why Anne, but you truly are living on another planet or have seen very little of this one.
Anne you are building a strawman, an imaginary boogieman that doesn’t exist just so you can argue with that instead of the issue on hand. The issue of abortion has absolutely nothing to do with this topic.
You bring it up because in your mind, you find it easy to argue with someone who is opposed to abortion and as you cannot argue your position that the EU must accept endless streams of immigrants pouring into the continent, you imagine people who are opposed these migrations as also being opposed to abortion so you can argue with them on that issue instead. It’s a deflection tactic. Nobody has talked about abortion. I certainly haven’t and won’t.
Secondly, being opposed to endless streams of people migrating to Europe has absolutely NOTHING to do with the colour of people’s skins. Again you bring that up because you cannot argue for endless streams of immigrants entering Europe so you conjure up a fantasy that people opposed these migrations are merely racist and it is very easy to dismiss racists.
Please argue why it is sustainable for Europe to entertain endless migration from the entire world.
Sean, I agree totally, there seem to be some people so blinkered that they refuse to see the reality of the chaos so many countries around Europe are currently in due to mass migration by those who would kill us in a second just because we are not one of them. Anne really does need to get out of her small town and see what has been unleashed in places like Malmo is Sweden, Seine-Saint-Denis in Paris and areas of Marseilles, Lille and Amiens. Or maybe Anne could go closer to home and visit the UK and see how welcome she would be in Birmingham, Bolton, Bradford, Dewsbury, Cheetham in Manchester, or perhaps she could go to the borough of Tower Hamlets in East London where gangs of muslim youths regularly patrol the streets to target gays and young white people who are on a night out having a few drinks, Tower Hamlets is also where the muslim Mayor was removed due to corruption and vote rigging and what about the trojan horse schools scandal Birmingham, I suppose Anne would welcome the same kind of chaos to be visited on her own community. Some people really need to get out more.
I’ll ask again Gkrell. How many people are you prepared to let die?
As Search Eagle and Vin have pointed out, Europe and the west is responsible for much of the problems of Africa and Middle East and right across the globe. Our capitalist elites have been exploiting those regions (and us) for centuries and it continues right to the present day with the illegal war waged against Iraq in the last decade and which contributes massively to the migrant crisis.
Europe is an entity which has an immense amount of resources, more than enough to ensure the welfare of all of its own citizens. Those resources need to be managed democratically on the basis of need and not for uncontrolled profit. That is the basis of socialism. Under such a system, Europe could take in many millions of migrants and give them the necessary education and training to rebuild their home countries.
In parallel, Europe would assist the other poorer nations and regions which surround us to move to the socialist model to build societies which protect and enhance human life instead of exploiting it for profit as capitalism does.
Ultimately, this is the only sustainable solution to the multiple catastrophic and existential problems which face humanity. As I said earlier, the choice is socialism or barbarism.
To be honest, I can’t see why Ireland should go anywhere near above and beyond the call of duty in relation to this crisis. As I say, the burden of responsibility should fall on those countries responsible for past and present imperialism.
How many millions can Europe take in Coddler?
Why cannot you not present a figure?
I think it because this is pie-in-sky feel good rhetoric and that sounds nice and might get you a pat on the back but it is impractical and unsustainable. So prove me wrong and present me a figure for how many millions of these migrants Europe can absorb.
Please also present me with a figure for the number you think Ireland can individually absorb. Your voters deserve to know.
I’ll bite.
I would let as many die as needed to so that those deaths serve as a deterrent to any further illegal incursions on our borders.
If these young men want to risk dying at sea over fighting for their countries then I say let them have at it. I only want the EU naval services there to intercept the smugglers and illegal, and to tug them back into Libyan waters.
I would like to see a pro-active effort from the EU to create stable safe zones in North Africa where genuine cases can be determined but also begin the groundwork on setting up secular, capitalist democracies in Africa.
@sean
And you are living on the planet were everybody who is not pure Irish should be held in concentration camps, the only planet in fact where a sad little fool like yourself would be having a career, as a concentration camp guard for example….you tick all the boxes in this regard…. Apart from that you just spread hatred and nonsense!
Matt, you keep attacking others and calling them names but you don’t seem to have any valid arguments to make in relation to the points being made. Grow up and quit with the emotional bullshot
Matt is one of the weakest debaters on this site. All he does is throw insults around when he sees that the majority disagree with him.
What genuinely surprises me is that the Journal has always had a fairly left wing, liberal following but it seems that people are genuinely starting to wake up and become concerned about the EU handling of the Med crisis and how mass immigration is about to imposed on us.
@Stephen
I don’t debate with people who wish death on innocent people!
Stop seeing everything only black and white and we can have a decent debate!
I’m in no way in favour of uncontrolled mass immigration to Ireland, I’m just not narrow minded and I do know the difference between immigration and humanitarian aid!
@Matt,
Can you spare me the histrionics hyperbole and hysterical schoolyard name calling and give a coherent rebuttal to the very valid point I’ve made? I’ve been waiting for two days for someone to address it, but all the social justice warriors and blind declarers of ‘refugees, refugees’, seem awkwardly silent in the face of the demographics I’ve highlighted aka the vast majority of these refugees being fit, healthy men.
Also, I make absolutely NO apologies to YOU OR ANYONE ELSE for wanting future generations of Irish children to grow up in a country where they are safe and have opportunities, without being encumbered by the overflow of the quadrupling population of Africa. We were persecuted long enough, and the policies the likes of you and Anne would espouse would see the complete ruination of this country, and of Europe in the long term ..
Your vision of multicultural utopia is sadly misguided. You are living in lala land, and that’s coming from a leprechaun.
@Tiger
Well unlike you and many others here I do know the difference between humanitarian intervention and immigration!
Unlike you I do not wish death on innocent people!
That has nothing to do with being overly emotional but with a decent upbringing!
I can assure you that the majority of Irish people do NOT wish harm on innocent people, so what makes you think your barbaric views are acceptable?
Also @Matt,
Nobody is wishing death on innocent people. It’s a tragedy that anyone with a heart laments. But there’s a difference between ‘wishing death on innocent people’ and being opposed to policies that are actively encouraging these people to take the decision of running the gauntlet they are running.
It’s madness.
Who has wished death upon people?
All I have said is that if they take the risk, let it be on their own heads. Debate gets stifled every single time you brandish all anti-immigration people as racists.
What the EU is doing in the Med is causing more harm than good. Do you not realise that the Irish Naval Service is indirectly responsible causing the deaths of hundreds of people. Had they not approached the vessel it would never have been capsized by the illegals on board.
I care about these people as a whole. I can’t think about them on an individual basis because why are these people any more worthy of my support than any of the other people around the world. These people need to stay where they are and stabilise their countries. I want to see a safe and prosperous Africa. We won’t get it by accepting as many from Africa in as possible. If their is no want for change or no resistance to the terrorists or dictators then more people suffer.
Its a long term game, you can’t think short term all the time.
I’m an innocent person, and have been started paddling west on a rubber dinghy for 3 hours straight. Oh f*ck it, these waves look very big. Aagh, sh!t, I’m in the water and might only survive another 30 minutes tops. Where the f*ck is the racist US coastguard???? Why the f*ck do you heartless, barbaric people sitting on your fat @rses in Ireland not do something??? Is there not a single humanitarian bone in your heartless bodies??? You probably all believe women should be allowed to have abortions!! I’d think of some other over-emotive appeals to craziness if my lungs weren’t filling with water!! Where are those racist US coastguards with my greencard??? I’m innocent!!! Why do you all wish harm on me???
‘Terence’ Are you saying that the Irish lifeguard wouldn’t rescue you if you were in trouble?
Because I think you’re wrong. The Lifeguard here do an amazing job rescuing all sorts of people who get into difficulty around the coastline.
Anyway, possibly the only thing worse than one person here pretending to be twenty ar$eholes singing off the same hymn-sheet is me for engaging and responding at all.
You, pretending to be all these people, are completely off your rocker. Period.
@Sean
OK, Sean let’s cut the bull!
I certainly don’t advocate uncontrolled mass immigration, not here in Ireland not anywhere else!
I do strongly believe there must be a limit! But the picture you paint is full paranoia! Islamist terrorists are non-existent in Ireland! There is certainly a threat in the UK, France or Germany but even there the hardcore Islamist contingent in these countries is not made up of refugees or illegals but of legal immigrants that lived there for years and years already! Irish culture is alive and kicking not a single sign that the Irish culture is vanishing through immigration! I really do believe we have bigger problems in this countries, starting with our inept and corrupt so called leaders and it goes on with emigration, health care, housing, our ever growing contingent of home grown scrotes who will never work for a living, safety in out cities, anti-social behaviour, increasing level of street violence and so on….a few thousand immigrants from different cultures more is NOT our main problem!
The irony is the UK have a ship down there “HMS Bulwark” that is not involved in rescue missions
Your paranoia is clouding your comprehension ‘Anne’ – I’m saying that if I attempt an incredibly risky manoeuvre, I can’t expect others to suddenly jump to my rescue. I don’t want a lifeguard to rescue me, I want the US coastguard, who’ll then present me with a greencard. And you’re heartless, barbaric racism won’t deter me – my dinghy my choice!!!
HMS Bulwark rescued nearly 5000 people in the amount of time it was stationed there.
It was taken out of service for a period of time because the water evaporator broke down and could no longer convert seawater to drinkable water for the illegals they picked up. They could hold nearly 2000 at a time.
The much smaller HMS Enterprise was dispatched last week to replace them.
@Matt, I’m glad you’ve desisted from the name calling and I welcome your arguments, many of which I agree with in terms of our problems at home.
Now it has been a truism (in the case of the UK at least) that first-generation immigrants have tended to ‘keep their heads down’, not cause any problems, and get on with things.
But Matt it’s only human nature to gravitate to your own kind, and it is inter-generationally speaking that problems begin to arise, when the ‘youth’ of many of these populations find their feet and begin to feel both disenfranchised and entitled… in the case of the UK that has resulted in a mire of social problems, particularly within the Afro-Caribbean and Islamic communities.
In the light of what I have said regarding this tendency of first-generation immigrants to generally keep their heads down, it must be a grave cause of concern for us ALREADY that this has appeared in the Irish Independent, even given the relatively insignificant (for now) number of Muslims already here.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/we-hate-westerners-we-are-isis-chilling-words-of-irish-muslim-teens-to-cleric-31425033.html
Please read it and have a look Matt. ‘We hate the west. We are ISIS.’ On the streets of Dublin. Islamic extremism is ALREADY finding it’s foothold here Matt and it’s only going to grow. They are not here yet 20 years and they’re already building Mosques and demanding state funded Islamic schools. In other words, actively segregating themselves already, in spite of being accommodated left right and centre, be it in schools, work, you name it. Anti-western hate speech is already taking hold here. And why? What have we done to them as Irish people? The incoherent mindlessness of it all is the most terrifying thing.
And Matt, I have nothing against taking in refugees or immigrants once it is in line with making sense proportionately with our tiny population. I believe in humanitarian aid. I believe in helping people. The people of Ethiopia during the 80′s were refugees. The people of Rwanda during the 90′s were refugees. Men women and children. Not 90% young healthy men legging it and taking their chances to get into a Europe that has taken a ‘softly softly’ approach to them and is actively encouraging their illegal entry.
And it’s not a few thousand that are coming Matt.
200,000 already in the first quarter of 2015.
I am not a racist/fascist/ or anything else you want to call me. I have friends all over the world, Indian, Pakistani, Black, Asian. I’m not taking aim at you specifically, but I often find that other people who advocate things like more open border policies etc etc etc will instead of addressing a person’s argument, throw the old ‘you’re a racist’ card at them , like it trumps everything, when this could not be further from the truth.
But I do not believe in this lunacy that is going on at present. It is completely and totally wrong. Most of these guys are not refugees. They are illegal economic immigrants and in the long term if it continues will put a terminal strain on European economies, LET ALONE the absolute litany of social woes that will follow.
“I would like to see a pro-active effort from the EU to create stable safe zones in North Africa where genuine cases can be determined but also begin the groundwork on setting up secular, capitalist democracies in Africa.”
So would I, but most people who advocate minimal intervention in the Med, do not think like this. Most people want to have their cake and damn well eat it too. We shouldn’t help them or provide refuge as it will simply encourage them more, we should cut the foreign aid budget because charity begins at home, or whatever and we should restrict legal immigration so that “our people” can have the jobs. All whilst bombing the sh*t out of them. They just can’t win. You just imagine that anyone suggests that tax should be raised even *one cent* to help people there, there’d be outrage amongst a sizeable constituency of our population.
And as we sit at our comfy desks, in one of the richest countries in the world, we couch what we are allowing to happen in terms like “illegal economic migrant” or describe them as a “swarm”, we rationalise it with the woes that will be caused if “those people” come here, so that we don’t have to feel guilty about allowing desperate people to drown in the sea. It f*****g disgusts me tbh. Then the very same people have the temerity to moan about the “hardship” inflicted by a water tax. F**k off.
It’s very rare that I agree with Coddler on anything, but he’s right, Europe is immensely wealthy. If we take the argument at face value that we can’t sustain those people, then what chance do the massively poorer war-torn countries of the region have dealing with those migrants? But no, we want “someone else” to sort out the problem. It’s not our problem.
Irish people, who had billions foisted upon them by the EU, who emigrated across the world, who benefited from the Marshall Plan, who would’ve been completely f****d over had the taxpayers of other European countries not dug into their pockets to pay for the mess our incompetent government created, should be the absolute LAST on the list to complain.
“Debate gets stifled every single time you brandish all anti-immigration people as racists.”
Being anti-immigration relies on the same distinction that racism makes, even if it’s not necessarily “racist”.
@Stephan
“What genuinely surprises me is that the Journal has always had a fairly left wing, liberal following but it seems that people are genuinely starting to wake up and become concerned about the EU handling of the Med crisis and how mass immigration is about to imposed on us.”
Left-wing perhaps, but I see very little liberal. People on this site, left and right, are quite happy to have aggressive nation states manipulating the laws and markets to personally benefit themselves.
@Terrence
“I’m saying that if I attempt an incredibly risky manoeuvre, I can’t expect others to suddenly jump to my rescue. I don’t want a lifeguard to rescue me, I want the US coastguard, who’ll then present me with a greencard.”
Because of course, fleeing from war-torn country is comparable to yachting misadventure.
Sweet God don’t let this be happening. Main street in Tralee closed. There’s a standoff between Gardaí and an armed man in a Halall shop. I hope beyond hope this is misinformation, or rumours or lies that has spread online.
Stephen M,
You say that:
“I would let as many die as needed to so that those deaths serve as a deterrent to any further illegal incursions on our borders.”
Well at least you’re honest in your ruthlessness and naked self interest unlike gkrell.
You then say:
“I would like to see a pro-active effort from the EU to create stable safe zones in North Africa where genuine cases can be determined but also begin the groundwork on setting up secular, capitalist democracies in Africa.”
While failing to understand that decades of western U.S led forreign policy has played the major part in making Africa, the Middle East and much of the rest of the globe precisely the opposite to “stable safe zones”. Our capitalist elite have created much of the military and economic catastrophes that creates the millions of migrants that you wish to see drown in the Mediterranean until they learn to suffer and die quietly in their home nations as you advise.
This recent article explains it eloquently:
“The disquieting reality of the world we live in is that American efforts to destroy democracy, even as it pretends to champion it, have left the world less peaceful, less just and less hopeful……………
To place the coup in Ukraine in historical context, this is at least the 80th time the United States has organized a coup or a failed coup in a foreign country since 1953………………
Noam Chomsky calls William Blum’s classic, Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions since World War II, “Far and away the best book on the topic.” If you’re looking for historical context for what you are reading or watching on TV about the coup in Ukraine, Killing Hope will provide it. The title has never been more apt as we watch the hopes of people from all regions of Ukraine being sacrificed on the same altar as those of people in Iran (1953); Guatemala(1954); Thailand (1957); Laos (1958-60); the Congo (1960); Turkey (1960, 1971 & 1980); Ecuador (1961 & 1963); South Vietnam (1963); Brazil (1964); the Dominican Republic (1963); Argentina (1963); Honduras (1963 & 2009); Iraq (1963 & 2003); Bolivia (1964, 1971 & 1980); Indonesia (1965); Ghana (1966); Greece (1967); Panama (1968 & 1989); Cambodia (1970); Chile (1973); Bangladesh (1975); Pakistan (1977); Grenada (1983); Mauritania (1984); Guinea (1984); Burkina Faso (1987); Paraguay (1989); Haiti (1991 & 2004); Russia (1993); Uganda (1996);and Libya (2011). This list does not include a roughly equal number of failed coups, nor coups in Africa and elsewhere in which a U.S. role is suspected but unproven.”
http://www.alternet.org/world/americas-coup-machine-destroying-democracy-1953
But hey, so long as you’re safe and comfortable in the bastion of fortress Europe, then that’s the important thing.
Eagle,are you saying Libya and Tunisia are war-torn countries? War refugees are supposed to apply for asylum in the first country they enter. Are there no countries between sub-Saharan Africa and the Indian sub-continent and Libya/Italy? How come the majority of refugees are male? Do women and children not flee from war too?
Reports I’m reading say it’s a woman armed with a machete who has barricaded herself in the halal shop.
Coddler we can both provide various sources and articles that support our view on what has caused and is causing problems around the world. I know capitalism isn’t the fairest or most caring ideologies but it is undoubtedly proven to be the most successful for prosperity and success across the board. Yes there is still a lower, middle and upper class but the average person is middle class which provides a better quality of life than many people experience around the world.
Now onto the main points. I can understand why you would consider my attitude ruthless but self interest? No not at all. I would rather see the resources put forward to stabilising North Africa. I am more than aware how wealthy Europe is. I am more than aware why Europe is so wealthy. I don’t want our wealth squandered on ferrying people who do not hold the ideals of a secular democratic society to heart. I want to spend the money to stabilise and develop a whole region rather than help individuals. I don’t want to see Africans fleeing anything any more. We’ve been throwing money at Africa for generations and it does nothing. Its time for a European solution to a European created problem.
We need people who desire a change in their home countries to stay there so we can have significant support on the ground. They can’t be dying on boats or amounting to nothing in refugee centres.
Again I won’t lie. As long as I am safe and have a comfortable life in fortress Europe then I am quite happy but it doesn’t mean I don’t desire to see other regions attain a similar level of stability.
Irish people didn’t have billions foisted upon them, Search Eagle. The state was given billions in return for giving up our nation’s rights to our fisheries and other natural resources. What was foisted upon the Irish people was debt…lots of it, a grater amount per capita than any other European country…all of it rightly belonging to gambling bankers.
By the way, when was it that Ireland first started bombing Syria, Libya, Iraq or Afghanistan?
Stephen M
“I know capitalism isn’t the fairest or most caring ideologies but it is undoubtedly proven to be the most successful for prosperity and success across the board.”
Successful across the board? Come on. The 85 richest individuals on the planet now hold the same wealth as 3500 million people, the poorest half of the globe’s population.
“I would rather see the resources put forward to stabilising North Africa.”
I’ve explained already that European and U.S. Foreign policy has for centuries been directed to exploit North Africa and most of the rest of globe. If you disagree, please show me your sources to the contrary. Our governing class in the west has destroyed and looted the nations of these refugees. We have a moral responsibility to assist them in their desperation as they flee the destruction that our nations have rained upon them.
“I don’t want our wealth squandered on ferrying people who do not hold the ideals of a secular democratic society to heart.”
Democracy means governing in the interests of the majority of the population. Capitalism by definition serves the interests of a small elite at the expense of the majority labour class. Are you proposing that we permit entry to atheist/agnostic socialists only?
Just look at the UK , place has completely changed for the worse because of mass immigration from Asia and Africa. It’s horrible what’s happening to these people due to smugglers but small country like ours owes the worlds “illegal immigrants”nothing in my opinion. Ireland gives €85 million in foreign aid and takes plenty of asylum seekers each year already. Our navy is there doing there thing also
Fact lad
Coddler –
“Successful across the board? Come on. The 85 richest individuals on the planet now hold the same wealth as 3500 million people, the poorest half of the globe’s population.”
Indeed. There are quite a few individuals that wield an enormous amount of wealth and influence. Whether you like it or not. Fairly or unfairly. They’ve done what they could to earn every single penny of that money. There is nothing wrong with being wealthy. In fact it is good that it is a desirable goal to have. If you are willing to answer, what do you do for a living?
When I said capitalism is successful across the board. You know that I meant that those who live in well established capitalist democracies enjoy a far superior standard of living to those around the world because the onus of success and privilege is put in the hands of the individual rather than the states enabling or preventing you from attaining that.
“I’ve explained already that European and U.S. Foreign policy has for centuries been directed to exploit North Africa and most of the rest of globe. If you disagree, please show me your sources to the contrary. Our governing class in the west has destroyed and looted the nations of these refugees. We have a moral responsibility to assist them in their desperation as they flee the destruction that our nations have rained upon them.”
And I never disagreed with you. I’m very proud of my ancestors achievements and our colonial heritage. In a different era, you could say we exploited people who didn’t know what resources or lands they possessed. I would say that we did what we felt because who would stop us? It was a more brutal and aggressive time. I’m positive that if the tables were turned African nations would have done the same to us, had they the ability. I also believe that our colonisation brought many positives to Africa, it was the rapid withdrawal and subsequent vacuum that led to that.
We don’t owe anyone anything because we can’t be blamed for the “sins” of our fathers. In fact I think retaking land in Africa would be more positive than anything else European powers have done in decades.
“Democracy means governing in the interests of the majority of the population. Capitalism by definition serves the interests of a small elite at the expense of the majority labour class. Are you proposing that we permit entry to atheist/agnostic socialists only?”
Capitalism is most definitely not about the interests of the “small elite” its about giving the individual the power and opportunity to reach a position well above his station as any form of socialism would implement. I am most definitely not only proposing we only allow atheist/agnostic socialists. I don’t care about what religion they carry, although none is of preference to me personally.
So if a capitalist country runs out of other peoples money that is fine then? Capitalists are the biggest cheerleaders for Socialism when it comes to their private debt.
Total mess of a situation. Refugee processing centres should be established on the African side to process claims, then turn the illegal boats back. what’s the alternative? bring in 100,000,000 migrants?
Yes that’s the alternative. Absolutely no hyperbole there
I’m glad you like my alternative idea – yours seems to be lacking.
I didn’t comment on your idea only your assertion that the alternative was 100 million migrants.
But since you asked your alternative idea is nonsense as migrants will just move their points of entry to Europe rather than conveniently streaming towards processing centres.
The majority of those arriving by sea into Europe are genuine refugees coming from Syria, Afghanistan and Eritrea (a highly repressive country where people leaving are subject to a shoot to kill policy). European leaders need to come to an agreement to share this burden fairly and process asylum claims quickly. Anyone without a genuine claim to asylum can be deported
Most people in Europe do not want these people forced on them and any government who tries will be creating a powder keg within that society. We already have enough of these people who hate us and refuse to integrate so why would anyone in their right mind want more. It’s time the people of Europe were asked if they want their countries drastically changed by allowing in these people whose mindset and cultural values miles from our won. Do you care what the people of the countries these migrants will be foisted on think about all this or do you only care about these reckless men and women who risk theirs and their children’s lives to scrounge of hard working Europeans ?
‘We already have enough of these people who hate us and refuse to integrate so why would anyone in their right mind want more.’
No room at the Inn, eh?
Kool it doesn’t really sound like your “cultural values” are particularly praiseworthy if you are happy to ignore our responsibilities to refugees both morally and under signed and ratified international agreements. I’m sure Lebanon with a population similar to ours would prefer to not have 1.5 million refugees would also prefer not to have any but the reality is their are global reasons for the increase in refugee numbers and there should be a global response. Instead we get people in rich countries complaining when 80% of refugees actually go to developing countries
Kool Tiger. I guess you are quite happy at those deaths , though I suppose you are a bit dissapointed that so many were saved.
I can just imagine you rubbing your hands in glee as the body of each dead child is pulled from the water.
Disgusting.
Which part of these people are not welcome do you guys not understand? Please pay a visit to the ghettos created by previous migrants in UK, France, Sweden and Holland and come back and tell me this is the kind of divided societies you wish to create and live in yourselves, look at the rape stats in Sweden and the problems with FGM and the breeding of islamic terrorism across the European continent due previous open border madness. Why should the people of Europe be forced to accept into their towns and cities people who do not want to integrate and who form their own closed communities but happily take handouts paid for by those they refuse to integrate with. Poland and many other countries have already said recently they do not want these people so why do you think these countries should accept people they do not want?, have a read of the below link and educate yourselves or maybe volunteer your home to house and feed them
We have no legally mandated obligation to these illegal immigrants, anyone who claims as such is seriously mistaken.
The law is very clear, the first port of call is where the refugee is supposed to apply for refuge and asylum. If you’re coming from Afghanistan, stopping in Libya and then loading up on a boat to travel to Italy then Europe has no legal responsibility to facilitate your illegal journey.
Mark, do you not think what kind of parent would put their child in a rickety old boat with the risk of drowning when their are processing centers all over they could have gone to for refugee status processing?
Kool Tiger. Anyone who wishes the deaths of people the way you did the other day is not worth bothering with, your points are worthless.
Off you go now and celebrate that a few hundred are dead.
Please back up with a link to that wish you claim I made or please STFU, you absolute clown
Kool Tiger. http://www.thejournal.ie/profile/324814/these-people-mostly-economic-migrants-willing-break-law-4077083/
Quote: “These people are mostly economic migrants who are more than willing to break the law to further their own ends and should not be rescued so others thinking of doing the same will think again if they know they will not be rescued.”
There you go.
“Instead we get people in rich countries complaining when 80% of refugees actually go to developing countries”
It’s a shocking lack of perspective isn’t it? We moan that we don’t have the resources to pay, living, as we are, in the what, 7th, 8th richest country in the world? Yet we expect countries, many of which have been ravaged by their own plights, to take on figures which are far beyond *anything* suggested for us.
We don’t know true poverty and desperation. When the rest of world cries out for help, all Europe wants to do is put up fences to protect the rich (us).
Yes, that it my comment and I stand by it as I do not believe sending rescue ships helps in any way, maybe those adults and children who died the other day would still be alive if they knew ships like Le Niamh were not sailing around waiting to ferry them to Italy and it is not wishing death on anyone but suggesting a way to prevent these people form risking death by boarding boats they know are unsafe.
Kool Tiger. So what I said is correct and you did call for their deaths why didn’t you admit it instead of demanding proof and calling me a fool?
This shows the mentality of people like you, and why you are not worth bothering to engage with.
Bye.
So Jason your argument is that a refugee becomes an illegal immigrant if they don’t stop in the first country they reach? That’s a convenient change in language to wash our hands of responsibility. Isn’t it great that Ireland should never have to take a refugee since we only share a border with one other rich country so we’ll never be the port of first call for anyone.
And what happens when the first country closes their borders or refugee camps become through overcrowding become a living hell also?
It’s short sighted nonsense to expect developing countries to take full responsibility for refugees and then also expect them to be fully functioning liberal democracies and members of the international community.
Daniel Hannan made a good point recently on the Calais crisis.
He said “if you’re a refugee you’re aim is to get out of a particular country, not into a particular country”
It was in response to an Asylum industry spokesperson who had no solutions or arguments so she decided to call the tone police instead on the issue of someone using the word “swarm”.
Here is the vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-pGb7n4axo
Yeah complex issues are usually best dealt with by nice phrases that will fit on a bumper sticker
It’s true though, if these migrants at Calais were genuine refugees, they would not be fleeing France.
Not really. Refugees may see a better chance for success with their application in one country or they might think once they get asylum they will have a better chance in one country over another . If there was better coordination and fairness in application systems this wouldn’t happen. What Europe needs is an agreement on better coordination and fair distribution of refugees numbers across member countries
@Tiger
If you do not want them rescued you want them dead, plain and simple!
Don’t try to wiggle yourself out of it!
And people who want other people dead for economical reasons are completely and utterly unacceptable and should be thrown out of the country!
they’re probably even making deals with the traffickers on the ground, would make sense to prevent leaky boats from taking to the sea.
looking at the newspapers today, out of what they say 347, 376, 600? men, 14 are children and all the photos are showing children. one way to gather support to the mission, focus on children, even if theres just one.
@gkrell
Daniel Hammand is a complete moron and a fool!
get rid of the traffickers and their boats, process them at the ports over there before embarking on a UN ship.
Matt, do you have any intelligent to add or are you just going to call others names and hurl insults?
@Matt, you can’t even his name right. Shows how much you really know about him.
@tiger
I just told you what I think of people who wish other people dead for some warped selfish reasons!
You are the one who doesn’t understand the difference between humanitarian intervention and illegal immigration!
So, please point out your intelligent contribution to the debate, I can’t find it….
Matt, making false accusations against others or interpreting what they wrote to suit your own agenda is not contributing to the debate. I have made several detailed posts as to why I think sending ships to rescue illegal migrants from the Med is not a good idea, you can ignore anything I write but please quit with the emotional bullshot you keep flinging around without making any valid arguments what so ever.
The third world’s population is rising much faster than the developed world could ever take in as refugees.
Ireland had 8 million population so we can take 3 million to make up for famine loss.without famine loss population could now be 15 million so we can take many more.
For Andrew ^
wait. Did somebody just suggest Ireland can take 3 million refugees or did I misread? “Can”, as in “will physically fit”, or, “can co-exist on an island without too much trouble”? Because the former is not really much of an argument.
So sad. Rest in peace
Really ramping up the over the top, emotive reporting now.
Yes, it’s completely over the top that half a ship have died and those rescuing them have to receive counselling. Cop on will ye!
It wasn’t very clever getting on an over packed, rickety old fishing boat and floating out to sea in the first place, especially if one cannot swim.
it’s called desperation
You’re all heart
It’s called economic migration and flaunting of our immigration laws. According to the initial reports from the crew the majority are from Sub-Saharan Africa, the Indian sub-continent and Syria.
The neighbours of Syria have taken in millions of refugees so those leaving Syria are hardly doing so for their own safety. The Indian sub-continent definitely is not at war and Sub-Saharan Africa again is, baring Boko-Haram, relatively calm.
@infidel
The only thing over the top is the empathy free reaction of sociopaths like yourself!
Jason, these people are coming from squalor you can’t even imagine, you have no right to tell them they are wrong for leaving.
Infidel, 300 people died.
Let’s face it. People who bother reading the comments section know fine well that our resident right wing, anti-women nazi racist holds numerous accounts- male and female- I’m guessing upwards of twenty- to make it look as if we have a country full of anti-immigration thugs.
I do not share your viewpoint and neither do the majority of people I know..
‘It wasn’t very clever getting on an over packed, rickety old fishing boat and floating out to sea in the first place, especially if one cannot swim.’
Do you think the same of the Irish who went on the famine ships Infidel?
Infidim is just sorry that there were survivors .
Jeez Anne you managed to get it all out there in one general insult – “anti-woman, right-wing, Nazi, racists” !!
We all better agree with you so.
What have famine ships got to do with what’s going on today in the Mediterranean? Were the military ferrying illegals to shore?
How is it any of our concern if they’re coming from squalor or not? I fail to see why Europe needs to house a group of people who cannot speak our languages and are undereducated for a high-tech economy like Europe.
What exactly do we gain from the billions that would need to be spent just providing housing for these people? That’s before we factor in the extra education, healthcare, law enforcement and social protection costs and doesn’t even begin to touch on the social or cultural cost.
Poor Anne, it must be difficult to accept that you and your bleeding heart liberal views are in the minority these days, let’s put a vote to all the people of Europe and see how many European citizens want these illegal migrants in their midst.
Anne de Croix, easy to dismiss thejournal comments (in terms of attitudes to immigration) as representative of small minority but facts don’t support that. An Irish Times poll this year found only 41% of people thought immigration has been good for Ireland. Last year another IT poll found a majority of people supported asylum seekers remaining in the controversial direct provision system. In 2004, over 80% of people voted to discontinue automatic citizenship for children born in Ireland to foreign parents. Naive and plain inaccurate to say only a tiny, unrepresentative fringe in Ireland have concerns about immigration. But in relation to this article, of course, aside from everything else, the death of these people at sea is absolutely tragic.
Sure they were grand. They had all the Christians at the bottom to use for ballast. The followers of the important religion survived and thats all that matters.
‘Poor Anne, it must be difficult to accept that you and your bleeding heart liberal views are in the minority these days’
LOL Still not over the ‘yes to gays’ vote are you.
What sad f8ck sits online pretending to be a whole gang of racist people all day?
Answer: Some ar8eh0le who thinks 8 weeks foetuses should be respected as humans but someone with brown skin shouldn’t. That’s who.
Yeah Alan, racism is really, really cool isn’t it? I wanna be in that gang for sure.
Poor Anne, trying to close down debate by making unfounded accusations that others are racists and homophobes, you really don’t have a clue, do you?
In fairness to you, I was expecting a better articulated response Anne. Go back to the school yard, you sound like a child.
She does sound like a bit of a simpleton to be honest. Perhaps its best just to ignore the screeches of racism and carry on with a rational debate with others.
Go out and put your bloodlust to good use Anne, and set up mandatory abortion clinics in Africa so over-population and squalor will no longer be an issue. They’re only 8 week old foetuses
The majority of people you know are probably fellow Cultural Marxists, Anne,so it is no surprise that you don’t know many who disagree with your destructive politically-correct opinions. How do we know that you don’t have several sock puppet accounts here to make it seem as if there are more self-loathing “world citizen” tree-huggers in Ireland than there really are?
Nice one.
They are taking the risk because the chances of been rescued and brought to Europe have been increased. The EU and Human rights groups are creating these tragedies by having rescue boats lining up for them. What can you expect, these people are being sold the notion by the EU that get in a boat and we will reduce you, and they will get in these boats.
No mention of the crew of boat. Were these people caught and arrested. Then again who has jurisdiction in the sea ?
The traffickers usually offer someone the chance to cross for free if they sail the boat. It saves the traffickers a return journey and the ship is unlikely to be used a second time anyway.
they could also sail / tow the boat out from the coast and call the Italian navy collection service http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11540547/Trafficking-gangs-tip-off-Italian-officials-so-that-rescue-services-can-pick-up-people-smuggling-boats.html
If it was just to appease Kal then fine let the 20-something women and children in. Dump the young men back though. Its bad enough they criminals but cowards on top of that too much. Let them back to fix the ills of their own societies rather than bringing their primitive ones here.
terrible event. it seems they rushed to one side of the boat to see the Irish naval vessel approaching to pick them up. I guess if our lads had not have been there these poor souls would still be alive today
Hardly, this is simply the tactic these smugglers are using. They know a European ship will run to the rescue once a mayday is sounded so they immediately cry wolf as soon as they hit open water. European vessel turns up, pulls the migrants off and gives them a free taxi ride to Italy.
In this case the arrival of a European ship causes an unintentional catastrophe but the fact that we pick them up and bring them back to Europe is only encouraging this reckless behaviour.
@Jason
So why are we still doing it? Why are we not returning them to Libya and sinking the rickety old boats? It’s beyond belief at this stage.
I agree Infidel. I fully believe that we should bring them to Europe, give them basic medical care if needed and then deport them immediately back to Libya.
Simply taking them in and not sending them back to Libya is encouraging more of this behaviour. Deaths are only on the rise now that smugglers know anything that floats can be used so long as it has a radio to call out ‘mayday’.
Getting counselling after every major incident is rubbish. Can you imagine that happening in battle. ” oh hang on stop shooting please. Please stop shooting. It’s 2.30. Time for my counselling. “. Lol
Thanks for that insight Jack.
Its the Irish naval service though, they are hardly used to it.
Counselling? God help them if they were in a warzone
If I were to take my child out on a boat wit a risk of them dying is that not some sort of abuse. I guarantee if I did that here I’d be charged wit a crime.
Sandra, there is always a risk of dying when you take out a boat… How is taking a child on the ferry from Ireland to the UK abuse?
The never voted for non executive chairman of Goldman Sachs who wants cheap labour for his corporate entities has told us the
“The EU should do its best to undermine the homogeneity of its member states”.
The agenda here is pushing for unlimited migration into Europe for business profit.
risky business too, they will have to allow for a larger SW bill, not to mention health services, schools, all suffer, everyone suffers, higher tax to pay for it, lack of housing, crammed class rooms, crammed hospitals, services fall apart. Of course, if you’re one of the few siting aloft your ivory towers, with no worry about paying for all this then you can of course mouth off on whats good for a country yet its far from good. Billions in aid sent to these countries over the years, now billions more to take them here. Does that make sense? Creating wars, exploiting their lands for all its got, to feed the corporations, sure its no wonder the money went nowhere. Thats the problem. Theres about 600 of them, the evil elite.
These people know full well this will rip European countries apart in the future and that is the plan. The civil wars with completely incompatible cultures has already started in the USA, France, the UK, Denmark, Sweden.
Multiculturalism has completely failed in benefiting societies, it is an incredible success in crashing once powerful nations.
It was never intended to be a benefit to any society. It is designed to make it more and more difficult to maintain any form of societal cohesiveness.
I smell a claim
It is standard procedure for EMS personal to be offered CISM (Critical incident stress management ) After been involved in stressful situations were there is a loss of life or serious injury. A friend of mine was called out to an RTA a few years ago it involved a car with a family of four and a truck,Both parents unfortunately died at the scene but the two kids were alive and screaming while my friend and the rest of the crew cut them out from the mangled car. He was having nightmares about what happened afterwards and received counselling.I doubt it very much that any of the people involved on the LE Niamh will be looking for compo money.
The Navy is not the ambulance service
There suppose to be well trained to deal with everything and I mean everything. Not much good in a battlefield when they can’t hak a drowning I have a mate who just returned from the leb. He was fired at on many occasions. Guess what. ? He ain’t getting counselling. Bunch of drama queens on that boat
Lights and cameras going to their heads.
Unless you are an emotionless psychopath the sight of hundreds of men, women and kids drowning in front of you deserves the OFFER of counselling
That’s the problem, the Navy isn’t really intended for this sort of situation. They’re mainly using fishery protection vessels, not warships, and their training for these sorts of scenarios is probably not up to par with the gravity of the situation.
The Army, on the other hand, are trained with combat and oversees operations in mind so their training would be seen as sufficient to deal with the emotional strains.
you are quite the expert Jason. how long did you serve in the defence forces?
He doesn’t need to be in the defence forces to perform a simple analysis of deployment of the naval service abroad compared to the army.
Are we at the very beginnings of the creation of an aparthied European Union? I find this a really difficult issue to resolve. That we are rich and they are desperately poor has a number of causes but the principal one is the unequal distribution of the worlds resources. Add in massive population growth in those poorest of countries and the inevitability of what is happening becomes clear. As I see it; there are are no easy solutions. Here we have the perfect example of ‘being caught between the devil and the deep blue sea’. It ‘s starting to make me feel uneasy, really uneasy.
Unequal distribution? sorry, but who has all the oil, gold and diamonds? and that stuff they have in the Congo that nobody call make mobile phones without?
Poverty is not caused by not having stuff, it’s caused by poor management and lack of civil rights.
Agree on there being no easy solutions. In a perfect world, jobs, opportunities and hope for the future would go where people are, and not the other way around.
Irish defense forces? They could hardly defend us from way over there?
I really do feel we’re quickly reaching the point where Europe has a moral obligation to re-conquer Africa, oust the numerous tin pot dictators, tribal headbangers, nasty little despots and corrupt pseudo democratic officials ravaging the immensely wealthy continent of Africa from within much as the ebola virus destroys the human body.
The charade of African independence has gone on far too long.
Time to restore some order.
Time to create real democracy once and for all.
OK, I know it didn’t exactly go swimmingly last time but with the benefit of hindsight we can do the job properly this time round.
Let’s build the paradise that Africa should be for the native population but will never be as things stand.
Cmon, we owe to these guys.
Not going to be easy when the majority of EU NATO members aren’t meeting the their GDP requirements for military spending.It would be a great way to use up our old stock piles of ammunition though.
I think retaking Libya would a positive first step. Stabilise the country, set up a Euro-African Economic Area and promote secular, democratic, capitalist thinking. I know people in Libya personally that are crying out for NATO intervention. Maybe its time for the EU to step up and be the power it should be. Deploy some of our battlegroups.
A safe are must be made available in Libya for these migrants. Boats should be boarded immediately on leaving Libyan 12 mile zone and the people returned to Libya. This might help prevent the people traffickers carrying out their dastardly business.
Leaving aside for a moment the complexities of the issue, I find myself very proud of the humanitarian actions of our Navy. The Irish Defense Forces come in for a lot of stick but only from the Irish. It seems there is an element of self hate and ridicule in our collective mindset.
Since the start of this operation Irish Naval assets have saved the lives of thousands in an almost apocalyptic scenario. The stress of exposure to this scale of human tragedy requires recognition and treatment which is why they receive counselling.
Our Xbox generation keyboard warriors who hardly leave the house and contribute nothing to humanity sit there critiquing the real actions of real men and women in real world tragedies.
They make me proud of our small country, you embarrass me.
“Our Xbox generation keyboard warriors who hardly leave the house and contribute nothing to humanity sit there critiquing the real actions of real men and women in real world tragedies.”
There are people, right here on these comments, who think that the “suffering” inflicted by a tiny water charge is comparable to the desperate situations from which these people are fleeing. There has been some utter bile spewed about the migrant situation, so much so that I generally avoid articles about it.
Who exactly are you to criticise those who see this colossal EU sponsored mess for what it is?
Well said David!
Our navy is great source of pride but these morons do not see it that way because they are blinded by hatred and their own stupidity!
These keyboard warriors are despicable , vile human beings!
Matt, anyone who doesn’t want illegal migrants swarming their countries are all those things you said above. Grow up will ya
@ Tiger
No Tiger, anyone who cannot see that our navy did a great job there is blinded by something!
Nobody wants uncontrolled mass immigration but the people on the boats and in the camps cannot simply be left to die! That’s why it was a humanitarian intervention that does not have a lot to do with illegal immigration to Ireland….
Btw if the boat weren’t cap sized than they would have reached EU territory in any way. Most of the survivors will now be happy to be in Italy and I doubt many of them will be heading to Ireland!
The LÉ Niamh is indirectly responsible for the deaths of those illegals on the capsized boat. EU policy has so much blood on its hands at this point.
I am not happy that Italy is under such pressure to provide for all these illegals. I feel that the they should be supported more financially by all other member states.
They only started drowning when they saw the rescue boat approach. Time for a different approach.
They all moved to one side of the boat, triggering the ensuing catastrophe. So much for the survival instinct that we are told resulted in them being on the boats in the first place. A child could tell you that a boat will capsize if all the weight is on one side.
Don’t any of the islamic countries around there have ships?
Frankie Boyle:
There has to be something wrong with a world where the best employment option for a farmer in sub-Saharan Africa isn’t being a farmer in sub-Saharan Africa, but crossing the Mediterranean on a punctured lilo, only to spend days dangling under a lorry so that he can end up selling lollipops in a nightclub toilet. Our indifference is staggering. For a lot of these people, their best chance of survival may be to dress up as a leopard and hope to get Twitter onside.
‘There has to something wrong with a world’
Let’s be a bit more specific here.
There has to be something wrong with the way African society is structured.
Take Nigeria for example.
Some estimates put the amount of oil revenue embezzled by the ruling class between 1990 and 2002 at 250 billion dollars.
That’s a lot of social infrastructure. (which never got built)
A governor of one province on being questioned about recent media criticism of the lack of health and education services in his oil rich province replied:
‘What do I care? Half the population are illiterate….and the other half can;t afford to buy a newspaper’
Why is the focus of attention on western attitudes to these problems?
How long does western society have to don sack cloth and ashes and appease its guilt on its colonial past?
The problem begins and ends on African soil.
We’re wasting our time and energy treating the symptoms.
Time to treat the cause.
what scares me is that this is only the beginning of these tragic events occuring’ there going to be more frequent and more dearhs years to come’
Poor people .. All for a chance of a life that most of us take for granted
If they were going to integrate and assimilate then you might have a point. But they don’t and won’t.
Well dobe tge Irish Naval Service, proud of you!
have your say