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Ben Gilroy of Freedom From All Debt, and Pat Dunne, the deputy sheriff, argue over an eviction outside a home in Laois last week Screengrab via YouTube

Column Ignore the conspiracy theories - the household charge must be paid

There is an increasing amount of gibberish masquerading as legal fact about things like the household charge, writes Fergal Crehan. It’s dangerous and it needs to end.

IN THE PAST few months, an email has been circulating, purporting to contain legal advice regarding the Household Charge from McCann Fitzgerald, one of Ireland’s leading law firms. The same text has more recently been circulated in leaflets pushed through doors around the country. The “advice” is to the effect that nobody has to pay the Household Charge, because

This household charge is a Statute, otherwise known as an Act of Government and only carries the force of law upon you if you consent to it… a statutory instrument is a contract. If you register for this “charge” you are consenting to this statute i.e. signing the contract.

For anyone wondering why this seemingly important legal information isn’t more widely known, the answer is clear: it’s a conspiracy, man.

The courts know this and the last thing they will do is tell you. In fact they will hide this from you at every opportunity they can. On the other hand, if you tell them, they will accept it because they know it is actually true

Anyone with a bit of legal knowledge will immediately understand that this is gibberish. This is why McCann Fitzgerald this week issued a statement denying any connection with the email and leaflet.

Similar pseudo-legal language was heard this week when a video of an attempted eviction in Co. Laois did the rounds. An assistant sheriff arrived at a house near Mountrath to execute an order for repossession obtained by Ulster Bank in the High Court after the owner of the house failed to make mortgage repayments. The deputy sheriff was met by a number of activists, who ultimately saw him off. The most vocal of the activists subjected him to a lecture in law which would sound suspect to the ears of any first year law student, let alone a practicing lawyer. The important thing to note from the video is that the deputy sheriff left in frustration, not because he was legally outfoxed. The court order stands, the sheriff will be back, the house will be repossessed.

This kind of thing is becoming increasingly common. People are turning up in court and insisting that laws don’t apply to them. Posters, newspapers and flyers propounding this idea are becoming more and more common around our cities and towns. The internet, of course, is riddled with the stuff. Worse, because media outlets don’t feel qualified to make judgement calls on the validity of legal “arguments”, it is often reported uncritically.

All of this is evidence of the increasing prominence of a fringe conspiracy theory known as the “Freeman On The Land”. This theory insists that only the common law applies to individuals, but that laws made by the governments or parliaments are only invitations to contract. If you don’t contract with the State, the acts of the Oireachtas don’t apply to you, and you are a “Freeman on The Land”. This is not a political position – freemen aren’t saying this is what the law ought to be, they’re saying this is what the law actually is. The Man won’t tell you about it, but if you confront Him with the truth, He will be forced to admit that the game’s up. Why a vast international conspiracy would suddenly capitulate upon hearing these magic words has never been explained. Also, it has never happened.

The Freeman movement developed fairly recently, and seems to have originated with the publication in 2005 of a book entitled (deep breath) “How I clobbered every bureaucratic cash-confiscatory agency known to man … a Spiritual Economics Book on $$$ and Remembering Who You Are”.  This book cites David Icke as a source, though even Mr. Icke’s followers think the Freemen are a bit wacky.

Unlike most conspiracy theories, which are based on wilful misinterpretations of actual facts, much of the Freeman theory is entirely made up. Take the information card below.

Quite simply, none of it is true. The government doesn’t trade for profit, income tax is not voluntary, birth certificates are not traded on the bond market.

Returning to the Household Charge, the Local Government (Household Charge) Act 2011 applies to everyone, as do all acts of the Oireachtas. It says who has to pay the charge. It provides that non-payment is an offence, punishable by a fine. It allows local authorities to prosecute non-payers. It also provides that unpaid charges are a charge on the property, meaning you’ll have to discharge the arrears in order to sell the house. If people get away with not paying, it will be because it was too much trouble to prosecute them all, not because of a magic loophole.

We don’t need to enter any contract to be subject to laws. The Social Contract doesn’t exist, it is a metaphor. You might as well ask to see the captain of the Ship of State, or demand a swatch of the Fabric of Society. But then Freemen are oddly literal-minded, as Mr. Bobby Sludds displayed recently.

Mr. Sludds, or “Bobby of the Family Sludds”, as he prefers (this is another Freeman quirk. They don’t accept the names The Man gives them) was charged in Wexford District Court with the latest in an impressive string of traffic offences. He demanded to see the judge’s oath, though an oath is a form of words, not a physical object. He went on to deny there was any such person as “Boddy Sludds” and shortly thereafter found himself in Cloverhill prison. It took an application to the High Court (this time playing by the rules) and an admission as to his identity before he walked free. He was later convicted of all charges. The State may be a fictional entity, but it owns the prisons, and they are all too real.

So what is a law and what makes it real? There are entire fields of jurisprudence and philosophy that attempt to answer this, but in practice, a law is whatever the State says it is. There is literally not one single instance, worldwide, of Freeman arguments ever succeeding before a court, and that surely is the only test. Inventing your own law is a bit like inventing your own language – there’s not much point unless you can persuade everyone else to join in.

The Freeman theory is the legal equivalent of quack medicine. It’s often hilarious, but it can be dangerous. There are a lot of frightened and vulnerable people out there, and as with quack medicine, the attraction of a simple solution is great. Given the current public mood, anything that seems to stick it to The Man has an appeal.

I’m not happy with endless government charges or with banks repossessing houses, anymore than anyone else is, but if people put trust in this guff, some of them will find themselves in jail. There are Free Legal Advice Centres all around the country, staffed by lawyers who, contrary to cliché, offer their services free of charge. Anyone considering following the advice the Freemen might consider taking a trip to their nearest law centre first.

Fergal Crehan is a barrister

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212 Comments
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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:01 PM

    Not mentioned i the article is the 67% DISAPPROVAL rating for Inda Kenny, and that was BEFORE his response last night to the biggest mobilisation of the Irish people in the history of the state i.e. falling back into primary school teacher mode to talk down to us and threaten us like we’re a class full of disobedient 9 year old schoolchildren.

    After that display, if the poll was held today his rating would be somewhere between that kid on love/hate who shot the cat and the ebola virus.

    Incidentally, just heard Mary Lou McDonald state on RTE that after hearing Enda Kennys threats she will now NOT pay the water charge. The rest of SF need to do the same NOW.

    739
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    Mute Sergeant Yates
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:47 PM

    Biggest mobilisation of the Irish people in the history of the state? – maybe you’re too young to remember the marches against the Iraq war.

    89
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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:54 PM

    The Iraq war march drew 150,000 (largest estimate I’ve seen, please correct me with a relevant link if thats incorrect)

    Yesterdays estimates were 170,000+

    Like i said, feel free to correct me.

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    Mute cold war kid
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 3:17 PM

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha RTE ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Indo ha ha ha ha ha Irish Times, Newstalk, the Journal. Political propaganda fail…….

    236
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    Mute Shinnerbot
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 4:14 PM

    @WereJammin Totally agree, SF in power will solve all our problems.

    97
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    Mute Gaius Gracchus
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:18 PM

    The Irish Independent ‘journalists’ must have had a A Clockwork Orange brainwashing camp. The newspaper has become a parody and they react like spoiled brats when anyone criticises them, zero decorum. Very sad that all of the staff at that newspaper studied hard to work in journalism only to end up being a mouthpiece for Fine Gael and he who shall not be named. The paper just reads like one big long rant from front to back, and of course some trashy celeb nonesense scattered in between.

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    Mute Ruairi Colton
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:10 PM

    Last week the headline was “bad news for sf…” This week the headline is “despite the maria cahill controversy…” and then a reminder of that story again. I need not say more.

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    Mute Sam Bartell
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:14 PM

    The article didnt even exist a few minutes ago despite being all over social media and radio since yesterday and even twip!

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:39 PM

    @ Ruairi: At the same time the “Bad news for SF” article was on here, the following was on the BBC

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-29771610

    “Irish polls suggest little change in Sinn Féin support

    The first opinion polls to be published in the Republic of Ireland since allegations were made by Belfast woman Maíria Cahill suggest the claims made little impact on Sinn Féin’s support.
    The Red C/Sunday Business Post poll has the party down three percentage points to 20%. That is within the poll’s margin of error (+/- 3%).
    A second poll, conducted by Behaviours and Attitudes for the Sunday Times, has Sinn Féin support unchanged at 19%.”

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    Mute Cosmo Kramer
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:46 PM

    This news broke last night and The Journal are only putting the story up now.. The Journal even had time to fit another Mairia Cahill story in this morning with the comments section closed as usual..

    286
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    Mute Willie Holmes
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 3:08 PM

    You see Ruairi, we have a very fair minded media NOOOOT including “Journal.ie from whom I expected more

    125
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    Mute Stephen Byrne
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:03 PM

    Looks like there is no such thing as bad publicity for Sinn Fein.

    291
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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:16 PM

    Which also means 4 out of 5 SF voters are either satisfied or have no opinion either way.

    Poor spin, by the way.

    255
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    Mute Philip Mc Grath
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:35 PM

    1 out of 5, Enda would take that any day.

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    Mute Ryan Carroll
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:37 PM

    I’ve told FG people this over and over but they can’t accept it: ”Dancing on the PIRA/North/Shady dealings card energizes your base but it energizes THEIR base way more and just makes swing voters roll their eyes thinking it’s the same punch and judy show”.
    They live in a bubble where everyone they know thinks SF are loony and FF ‘destroyed the country’ that’s just your bubble though. People should make it a point, esp in politics, to talk to people who disagree with them, it gives you way more perspective. When you’re a politico pick the lowest box total where you got your smallest no1s and canvass that area right after the election and instead of lecturing them on how they just don’t realize your party is great for them, try listeing to them and asking them what you would have to do to get their support.

    There is no point living in an echochamber where everyone thinks the same as you.

    207
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    Mute Pat Mustard
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:10 PM

    It seems the writer wrote this article through gritted teeth, scraping twitter to find anything to put a negative spin on the poll results. No mention of the other leaders popularity ratings to compare to Adams, when even after the two week tirade against him no other leader is more than 2 percentage points higher than him in satisfaction ratings.

    This poll shows the depth of anger against the three establishment parties and the most satisfying trend I can see from the polls is the stagnation of FF, long may it continue!

    288
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    Mute Denis Reidy
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:06 PM

    You’ve gotta hand it to Meehawl, handing over Mairia Cahill to Enda and letting him run downhill with the fallout. Lets see what sweets and treats the troika of FG/FF/LAB will give us to win us back, if they ever can.

    274
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    Mute Sam Bartell
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:17 PM

    The labour silence has been deafening. Afraid their Official IRA connections might sneak out. A quick google of a certain ministers husband makes interesting reading

    313
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    Mute Sam Bartell
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:30 PM

    Thats not who i was referring to!

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    Mute Josie Jennings
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 3:11 PM

    oooh Sam, please tell, I’m hovering over the Google button!

    65
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    Mute gerbreen
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 3:22 PM

    Look towards real capital. South of Tipperary.

    59
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    Mute gerbreen
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 3:56 PM

    Denis I think Enda took the baton off mehole.

    FF massive op to get back into power if the lose their dinosaurs. Thanks to Enda of course.

    54
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    Mute Brian Ward
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:11 PM

    Just goes to show how inept and useless Enda Kenny and FG ae. they use an alleged rape victim to conduct their own political “kangaroo court” under privilege as well as getting their propaganda mouthpieces at the Independent to spew out some of the most ridiculous drivel since Völkischer Beobachter and they still can’t stop Sinn Fain!!!

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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:18 PM

    While I have no doubt that some politicians have tried to capitalise on the Cahill case, it’s actually distressing that a lot of Sinn Féin supporters are perfectly happy to completely ignore Adams’ and SF’s role in the whole affair, not to mention the rest of their recent shady past. SF have done a wonderful job of casting themselves as the victim, which I find disgusting quite frankly.

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    Mute Cupid Stunt
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:37 PM

    History records plenty of sleaze and murders committed by civil war parties. Can we please see some balance to the debate.

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    Mute Denis Reidy
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:38 PM

    @ Search Eagle, i think you’re missing the point that people saw straight through Kenny and Martins pathetic attempt at political ping pong at the expense of the said victim. Also Ms. Cahill probably has her own agenda here.

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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 2:00 PM

    @Denis No I’m not missing the point. The point I was making is that a lot of people seem perfectly fine with the fact a victim of such an act was treated with such contempt by SF/GA, whose response has repeatedly been to smear her until they’ve been forced to backtrack.

    @History records plenty of sleaze and murders committed by civil war parties.

    Absolutely correct. But what current members of FF, FG, Labour, AAA, Greens et al. are linked to and/or apologists for murders and bombings. That is large part of the reason that a lot of the Irish electorate have no time for SF, myself included. I’m not willing I’m afraid to simply brush aside the horrors of the Troubles, and those who are, to put it mildly, apologists for the atrocities committed.

    And I’m completely consistent. I wouldn’t want Pearse or any of the other people who thought that violence was a preferable course to democratic means in my government either.

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    Mute Maureen O Connell
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 3:38 PM

    Pesky rape victim

    23
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    Mute Angel Gleeson
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:36 PM

    There is so much support for Sinn Fein because of the way Enda and co brought out mairia Cahill as soon as Sinn Fein got power and the people see that. M Martin knew about this 2 years ago! Why wasn’t it brought up then? Because Sinn Fein had no power at that time so now they had to act fast, something so horrible that people would be disgusted by and turn people from supporting Sinn Fein backfired on then FF,FG,LAB they only have themselves to blame. Bye bye

    235
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    Mute mart_n
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 2:12 PM

    “There is so much support for Sinn Fein because of the way Enda and co brought out mairia Cahill”

    Edna was so outraged by the idea of a kangaroo court that he decided to try and set up his own by inviting the four accused to meet with him behind closed doors. You couldn’t make it up really. He and the rest of FG & Labour must take people for absolute fools if they believe the public can’t see straight through them.

    199
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    Mute Cllr Brendan Ferron
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:09 PM

    I didn’t agree with Mary Lou McDonald when she said she was going to pay her water charges. I am happy that she has now changed her mind after Kenny’s speech last night trying to bully people into paying. There is huge anger and that is unlikely to abate with only 16 months before the general election.

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    Mute Sergeant Yates
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:42 PM

    @Brendan i wonder what the climb down words will be when those that advocate not paying the charges – then have to pay the pay the charges. Those that are on group water schemes already pay – business already pays and they also pay rates (is this correct?)… whether we like it or not water is utility… and countries like Ireland already pay separately for water.

    31
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    Mute Ian
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:25 PM

    Karma for the Sindo. 26 articles last week on Sinn Fein. Their obsession knows no bounds now their poll has sickened them all at that disgraceful rag. Up thr Shinners!!

    209
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    Mute Derek Mahon
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 12:57 PM

    Will this popularity end up with them winning the next Election? I’m sceptical. People always like to rebel before an election campaign and support the ‘outside’ parties, but almost always flock to the usual ones at the polling stations.

    181
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    Mute Boganity
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:02 PM

    No I doubt that’s even on their agenda, they’ll be a senior partner in a coalition. SF will be hoping the born-to-rule parties will continue this attack politics because more they do it the better SF polls as the voters see right through it.

    161
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    Mute Ruairi Colton
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:06 PM

    Thats true derek. A lot of people are uneducated when it comes to voting and vote for the name they know. Sf need to work on getting transfers from other left leaning candidates

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    Mute Derek Mahon
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:09 PM

    I still can’t see them getting the votes necessary to be a senior partner. People are fickle and scared when it comes to election time and I doubt that SF will get more than FG. They definitely won’t be junior partner as FG, FF and Labour have all said many times they’d never go into a coalition with SF, and the other alliances haven’t a hope of getting more than FF, FG or Labour either.

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    Mute Bruce
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:12 PM

    This more an indictment of the current govt. All the promises at the last election to on have been renaged on.

    The promised reforms haven’t materialised. They are handing it on a plate to SF.

    The cronyism of FG makes FF look like choir boys.

    People are angry: sign up for a utility but they can’t tell what bill will cost???? No reward for water consumers who save water. There should be discounts.

    FG need to get rid of kenny now. He might be a nice guy but as a leader a failure.

    They need a dublin based leader. Give Varadkar a shot at it.

    97
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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:15 PM

    I think FF would go into coalition with Sinn Féin. A truly frightening prospect.

    53
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    Mute Derek Mahon
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:23 PM

    Bruce, I don’t think FG are too worried about the next election. Labour will get slaughtered because they are the smaller party and thus become a scapegoat. People are still angry at FF and won’t vote for them, and they’ll become fearful of SF once the campaign starts and all the big parties team up against SF and a whole host of IRA stuff gets ‘leaked’. Ok they renaged on election promises, but cmon, what party in any election in history hasn’t done that?

    38
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    Mute Grim Reaper
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:25 PM

    No more frightening that the current batch of fascists and siptu shitebags who are screwing the country.

    145
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    Mute Ivorpabst
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:25 PM

    They won’t be any partner in any Coalition, as while they’ll poll well with their politics of negativity & incredible budgetary economics, as the by-election results have shown, there is continuing deep mistrust of the current leadership (due to the continuing drip-drip of controversy after controversy, all badly handled) & they won’t get transfers required to be a singular compelling consideration for Coalition ie there will always be other options to get the main party over the line.

    That combined with the rightful unease of the other parties at getting into bed with a partner with an unknown number of further skeletons in the closet will mean that SF won’t be in Government next time, unless they change leader & handle legacy issues more openly & transparently, without equivocation.

    44
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    Mute D H
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:30 PM

    Yea that and the fact that even sf supporters would be thinking twice about gerry as taoiseach

    44
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    Mute Cupid Stunt
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:34 PM

    God yes search eagle. The prospect of ff having a hand on the tiller again with their pompous rubbish. I wouldn’t put them in charge of a goldfish bowl. Their as bad as fg, cut from the same cloth.

    87
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    Mute D H
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:46 PM

    I think fg and kenny have done irreparable harm this time especially their attitude towards the people and thats now seared into the minds and only staunch blue shirts will vote for them next election. This all plays into ff hands as we as an electorate are too afraid of change to vote in sf and the inevitable retelling of the past during a campaign especially from a fg fighting for their political lives will be too much for them to translate their popularity into votes . So that leaves ireland once again with a shower or c¥nts in power with the people grumbling and complaining but reaping what we sow.

    48
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    Mute thetruth
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:53 PM

    Still a better love story than fg labour

    48
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    Mute Jopmarsy
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 2:08 PM

    Bruce, no point replacing a muppet with another muppet, Fine Gael and Labour will be wiped out at the next election, I think you are underestimating the anger over the Water Tax.

    56
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    Mute Tom Red
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:26 PM

    Fine Gael party???….

    But sure Enda kenny thinks he’s a Dictator…..
    You can’t water down the fact that he’s a 24 carrot w****r…..

    175
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    Mute Thierry Rat
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 2:18 PM

    I’m actually leaning towards the idea of Sinn Fein in power now only due to the main parties and medias fear of them in power

    166
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    Mute Declan Carr
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 2:07 PM

    I guess the media would want to keep up the hype on Mairia Cahill, if they think it will help to wipe out SF. The journal has written 20 or more articles and a bit in this column on Mairia Cahill, what people hate is to have stuff rammed down them. They dont want to see the same story every day, give us a break and write something bad about Enda Kenny for a change. Nice to see SF gain some ground, SF and the Independents could be the next government, so talk nice about them.

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    Mute Gaius Gracchus
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 2:32 PM

    I would like to know why The Journal took the unprecedented (to the best of my memory) step of closing comments on the Mairia Cahill stories, there’s more to that than just reporting the news. I’m not sure the sheer volume of articles on that case in any way reflect public interest in the story, but that’s their prerogative.

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    Mute Thierry Rat
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 2:22 PM

    Sf and independents has to be better than ff fg and labour

    136
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    Mute Limerick Born
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 3:44 PM

    Looking at the recent slant of Journal coverage of SF I’m wondering will they soon be part of the Sindo group?

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    Mute Thierry Rat
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:51 PM

    Unless a man is vilified in the private news papers and media he can not be a true national statesman of the opressed

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    Mute galway2007
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:13 PM

    Thanks to the clown Enda kenny

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    Mute James
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 12:58 PM

    Someone pass Cameron two paracetamol.

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    Mute Mr.Fellaini
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 3:59 PM

    Typical Journal, Typical Media, Sinn Fein will be elected no matter what you print in your poor excuse for a newspaper.

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    Mute Mr.Fellaini
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 4:02 PM

    Enda Kenny and Joan Burton are scu*bags

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    Mute Joe
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:28 PM

    People are desperate for change and didn’t get last election but will the next one. God save us.

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    Mute Thierry Rat
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 4:01 PM

    Surely sf have been around long enough to be due a go behind the wheel, after all some of them put their lives on the line for change

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    Mute O'Reilly
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 4:07 PM

    Who? I mean specifically for change in the Republic?

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    Mute Cllr Brendan Ferron
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:11 PM

    Dan the time on that tweet is 2pm yesterday before results were published, bit disingenuous to use it.

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    Mute Ron North
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:25 PM

    “In advance of today’s poll, some Sinn Féin officials appear to have jumped the gun somewhat, dismissing the findings before their publication.”

    This isn’t complicated councillor, figure it out!

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    Mute Cllr Brendan Ferron
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:41 PM

    Yeah I read that wrong a

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    Mute johngahan
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:08 PM

    It’s to be expected. Sinn Fein target the lower income voter demographic, promising to extract even more tax from higher income voters and give it to them.

    A solid strategy.

    So long as the higher income bracket are happy to pay even more tax to support the state.

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    Mute Ryan Carroll
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:30 PM

    Well the higher income have a math problem, which is why throughout the world the top 1% have bought the politicians through donations and lobbyists, because the 99% will always outvote the 1%.
    Only 4% of the Irish electorate make over 100k a year, so a plan that says we wanna third tax rate for income over 100k (so if you make 150k 25k in takex be taken out of the extra 50) then worst case scenario is all 4% vote for FG plus some who leigitmatly (or the bigger group) unrealisticially think they will earn more than that throw in another 10% that’s still 14% and those people, being high income, were probably always inclined to vote for a centrst rather than centre-left party anyway..so SFs tax policy isn’t gonna loose it people it hadn’t already lost.

    Meanwhile Labours making the classic mistake the UK Labour and US Dems made: If I act right wing enough I’ll loose my lefty reputation…and all they’ve lost is their base.

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    Mute gerbreen
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 4:01 PM

    We have a third tax rate for self employed on USC making over a 100k.

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    Mute Alan Ball
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:03 PM

    It is the unpopularity of the current leadership which is causing SF to shine. It will be brief and will not translate into any sort of victory at the polls in the future.The water debacle outweighs the IRA/ABUSE/ADAMS scandal at the moment and that is purely for financial reasons.Any fix to the water charges and the SF numbers will tumble.

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    Mute Gaius Gracchus
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:11 PM

    Any chance of next weeks Lotto numbers?

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    Mute Alan Ball
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:20 PM

    Any chance of an opinion?

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    Mute Ruairi Colton
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:26 PM

    Alan
    It was the unpopularity of ff that got fg elected last time.

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    Mute Ryan Carroll
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:22 PM

    If I was advising FG and Labour now, I’d tell them theres one easy way to totally undermine SF support, and they’d best do it. I’d tell them once Adams and the old IRA crowd are gone and someone like MLMD is in charge they will breach the middle class vote (esp after people realize they’re not communists but mainstream social democrats). I’d tell them that no FG led govt has ever been re-elected, and always needs Labour as a rocket booster to get into power, and that rocket booster is about to implode, that they need to regain their base from SF if FG are to see a second term. I’d tell them bashing SF on the north or the Cahill stuff only energizes the people already voting FG and does not push swing voters, it just looks like cheap mud slinging to them.
    So what’s the way to get back support? Become the people you ran as in 2011. Labour threaten to walk without a new PFG, and in that should be:
    -Abolition of water charges (via a huge allowance that will mean you’re only charged if you wontonly waste)
    -Abolition of college fees and move to graduate tax system
    -Go back to the Universal Health Care plan but with a simpler model, spend 2015 reforming the system and then aim to have UHI done in time for the next election, or at least started
    -Make the tax system more progressive, phase out USC

    You would rob the wind from SFs sails if you did that, luckily for them though, you’re just not that politically savvy.

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    Mute Jopmarsy
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 2:13 PM

    Ryan, much too late for any of that, the damage has been done, Fine Gael and Labour are finished no matter what they do!

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    Mute gerbreen
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 3:30 PM

    UHI?
    Are you mad? I would need to find nearly 5k for my family according to Reillys estimates. Water charges are preferable to that.

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    Mute Conor
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 3:02 PM

    If sinn fein IRA get voted in to government, I’m emigrating.

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    Mute Thierry Rat
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 3:36 PM

    Start packing

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    Mute tom
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:03 PM

    F.G. not a chance.
    F.F. not a chance.
    S.F. not a chance.

    It will be a combination of the three which is a scary thought.

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    Mute Angel Gleeson
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:37 PM

    Lab not a chance

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    Mute Patrick Bateman
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 3:57 PM

    The Shinners the most popular party in Ireland? Shouldn’t that be the most populist?

    All aboard the handcart to hell, everybody, departing soon.

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    Mute James Flynn
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 2:37 PM

    How can we believe this after the details about SF and IRA dealt with rape and abuse claims! Moving people around they’re worse than the what the Catholic Church did.

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    Mute Thierry Rat
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 3:35 PM

    Media attacked both of those groups

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    Mute O'Reilly
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 3:54 PM

    There’s a large minority of people who are as morally bankrupt as the Sinn Fein party .
    Handout culture trumps child safety and basic morals….

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    Mute Thierry Rat
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 3:57 PM

    Everyone against sf has no face

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    Mute gerbreen
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 4:02 PM

    It wasn’t SF who introduced handout culture in Ireland.

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    Mute O'Reilly
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 4:06 PM

    True Ger. But They’re making it policy…

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    Mute buddy ramerez
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:22 PM

    They’re our ukip: Sinn Fein indeed.

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    Mute RonanM
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 1:33 PM

    Notice there is no margin of error comments this week as SF are up. Believe its around 3% so in reality they are up 1% if the shiners comments last week are correct

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    Mute Ruairi Colton
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 2:45 PM

    Ronan
    Or they could be up 7% on 29% by the same logic.

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    Mute Bernard O'Brien
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 2:59 PM

    Time will tell, I’m not convinced that much will change unless a new party comes along.

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    Mute Thierry Rat
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    Nov 2nd 2014, 3:37 PM

    Any new party will probably be setup by the wealthy to take over from fg

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