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Updated 11.10am
POLICE HAVE SAID there is no evidence to suggest an incident in which a man ploughed a car into pedestrians in Melbourne was terrorism-related.
At least 19 people were injured in the incident, which police believe was a deliberate act. Of those injured, 15 people are in a stable condition and four are in a critical condition.
An off-duty police officer who intervened and arrested the driver is among those who were seriously injured. A four-year-old boy was also injured, but not critically.
Victoria state police arrested the driver of the car in the immediate aftermath of the incident, which happened in downtown Melbourne at a busy intersection at around 4.45pm local time (5.45am Irish time). The incident happened between Flinders Street and Elizabeth Street.
Speaking to reporters at a media conference, Victoria’s acting Police Commissioner Shane Patton said the driver of the car was a 32-year-old Australian citizen of Afghan descent.
At this time we don’t have any evidence or intelligence to indicate a connection with terrorism … Obviously this is quite a fluid situation, with the investigation unfolding.
Patton said the man resisted arrest and was placed in custody after “somewhat of a fight”. The man had “minor interactions” with police in the past – for driving offences and a “minor assault” in 2010.
Patton said the man has a history of drug use and is understood to be receiving treatment for a mental illness.
The man drove the car down tram tracks before accelerating, hitting “a large number of pedestrians”, Patton said. The car he used is registered to a family member.
Patton said hundreds more police officers will be deployed around the area in the coming days, but said there is no increased threat level.
He said the incident will be “life-changing and devastating” for those affected, stating: “Those that were present will be changed forever.”
Second man arrested
A second man, 24, who was filming the incident was also arrested by police. Patton said this man was in possession of a bag with three knives in it. However, police don’t believe he was working with the driver.
At the same conference, Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews called the incident “an horrific act, an act of evil and an act of cowardice”, noting that many people were doing Christmas shopping at the time.
“We are all caught up in this, we are all deeply sad and deeply wounded,” Andrews said.
He said the quick response by emergency services, and the fact strangers assisted victims, was “a source of pride”. He added that those affected by the incident will have the option to receive free counselling and support.
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Speaking to reporters at an earlier press conference, Commander Russell Barrett said: “Police arrived at the scene within minutes and arrested two men.
At this stage we believe it is a deliberate act. However, we do not know the motivation as it is still at the early stages of the investigation.
Barrett said police and emergency services will remain at the scene “for the foreseeable future”, adding that people should avoid the area.
“We understand this has been a very traumatic event and there will be witnesses, victims and family members affected,” he said, asking witnesses to come forward.
Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull described the incident as “shocking”.
In a tweet, police appealed to members of the public to upload any images they might have of the incident to a cloud address to help assist with their investigation.
A witness told Melbourne radio station 3AW: “We could hear this noise, as we looked left, we saw this white car, it just mowed everybody down. People are flying everywhere. We heard thump, thump. People are running everywhere.”
Another witness told ABC Radio Melbourne he saw an “SUV coming at high speed”.
“(I) really just heard the collision with people with bags and what must be shopping trolleys — and I hope not prams. I’ve really never seen anything like this before and I haven’t stopped shaking,” he said.
The incident comes almost a year after a car mowed down pedestrians in Melbourne’s busiest mall in January, killing six people. The driver, whose case is still being heard in court, had been pursued by police prior to the rampage after he had allegedly stabbed his brother.
- Contains reporting from © AFP 2017
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Not again, hopefully there are no fatalities.
@Number 19: This has nothing to do with Islam but don’t stop you hopping on the usual ignorant bandwagon
@Number 19: Reading your tripe, acknowledging and respecting it.
@Michael Geraghty: So if he happened to be a Christian nutbag you’d blame Christianity? That’s funny.
So, when are people going to start calling for background checks and mental health checks for vehicle licenses and vehicle rental?
@Thought for Food: If/when that happens these lunatics will just borrow or steal cars instead
@Ciara Baines:
Thanks for making my point for me.
@Thought for Food: if the Las Vegas attacker had a car instead of his arsenal, or the shooter in Las Vegas shortly after that one did, there would not be nearly as many people dead and wounded as there are now.
What’s a few extra corpses to protect your irrational need for gun culture, sure?
@Quango: *shooter in Texas shortly after.
@Quango:
I think you’re forgetting about Nice where one man killed more with a truck than the Las Vegas shooter managed to achieve with multiple firearms.
The answer is clear. We need car control.
@Thought for Food: Cars are for transport, guns are for killing and you knew that right?
@Thought for Food: in 2012 the total homicide rate in the US was >4.5 per 100,000 of the population, 60% of which was a gun death. Take these gun deaths away and you’re left with >1.5 homicides per 100,000, which is much more in line with Canada (~1.5), Australia (~1), and the UK (~1) and their respective total homicide rates. But yeah, access to trucks is the problem.
@Thought for Food: it was a family members car apparantly… but you are right in what your saying…
@gowfc@yahoo.com W: It’s true. Ideology never encouraged violence. (Sarcasm)
Another Muslim with – wait for it coz it’s very original – “mental issues”. Wake up, western world. This will happen here in Éire in time.
Sad times, the new norm for the next decade or so.
@purple rain: New norm until we all convert into Islam.
@cortisola: Fu(k that for a thought .
Melbourne is a wonderful cosmopolitan and multicultural city. There are no ghettos. Everyone has to the opportunity to improve their lot. I guess some people will find a reason to become angry and to blame others. Taking it out on innocent civilians is cowardly.
@Tanks a Minion: Sunshine? Dandenong?
@DaveSh: They’re far from ghettos. Not the most desirable areas sure but compare them to parts of Europe and the US they look like paradise.
@Tanks a Minion:
Franga!!!?!!!
@The Guru: Reservoir?
Madness
@gowfc@yahoo.com W: ‘Usual suspects’? Do you mean the Islamist terrorist s@um? If so,why not say it?Are they a protected species?
Oh look it’s “mental health issues”. Amazing coincidence that Muslims with mental health issues want to keep driving into crowds of westerners.
@gowfc@yahoo.com W: unfortunately not Godless. Senseless act. Those poor people.
@gowfc@yahoo.com W: Let’s leave the Godless people out of this. They have no invisible sky daddy commanding them to commit atrocities.
Another man standing filming was found with a bag of knives and police don’t believe he’s connected to driver
Not the brightest those Aussie cops
I regularly walk this area and catch the train at Flinders. Very high police presence in that area, probably the busiest area in the city. There are also big concrete bollards just opposite the street in Federation square to stop this kind of thing, although I can’t recall if they’ve put them on the station side of the street too since there have been construction works there at the moment. I question how stuff like this can still happen with such precautions, although you can’t really predict if and when someone will just veer into the footpaths…
@Shane Gavin: they ran the red light at the intersection of Elizabeth and Flinders and hit pedestrians who were crossing the road. Always hundreds of people crossing there.
@The Guru: ugh, that junction and the Flinders Swanston junction are always absolutely packed pretty much all times of day…
Not Islamic terrorism, drug abuse and mental illness. It just looks like Islamic terrorism becuase he was a muslim immigrant who knocked down Christmas shoppers with a vehicle
The good old “mental issues” again. I’m glad he wasn’t another psychopathic Muslim. Oh! You mean he……………..!
@Kieran Conroy: How about, we wait and see who carried it out?
Only one thing for it. Line the pr*ck up and mow him down slowly and repeatedly. Eye for an eye.
@Murph: Makes us all blind!
Even if this has nothing to do with ISIS, ISIS has successfully managed to “trigger” fear, prejudice and hate on the part of some people in the West.
The ISIS agenda is to provoke hate and retaliation against peaceful Muslims so as to radicalism them and to mobiles them.
Those who express most hatred against all of Islam and all Muslims are inadvertently serving the agenda of ISIS. A tragic irony.
@Fiona deFreyne: This is a common misconception. The goal of ISIS isn’t to get people to hate Islam, they don’t care whether we hate Islam or not.
The goal of ISIS is, simply put (by them, over and over) to re-create an 8th century Islamic Caliphate for the entire world.
By the way, not hating a disgraceful ideology because it’s ‘playing into the hands of the terrorists’ is bizarre. The ideology is either worthy of disgust or it isn’t.
@Fiona deFreyne: if only the Aussies were nicer to them. It’s not like they welcomed them with open arms into a city where it’s incredibly easy to find employment and better your life. Melbourne is the new land of opportunity but some people would prefer to stick to the hatred preacher by their religion.
@Peedur Dante: My disgust for Islam is derived from Islamic scripture (Koran and Hadith), which is what all interpretations are based on.
Even a charitable reading of the texts doesn’t make a good impression, to say the least.
For example – how do you ‘interpret’ the direct command from Mohammed to murder apostates? “The Prophet said, if somebody (a muslim) discards his religion, kill him”.
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/56/226
This is pretty black and white as far as religious commandments go, which is why you actually won’t find many Islamic authorities (e.g. Imams) who say that apostasy isn’t punishable by death.
Obviously, the principle of killing someone for non-belief is detestable, yet it is clearly upheld by the Koran and Hadith/Sira.
@Peedur Dante: “So one interpretation could be viewed as disgusting while another quite benign” – you may say the same about communism..
@Peedur Dante: so half of Imams preach hate….thought that.
@Peedur Dante: Of course there are violent passages in many religious texts, I wasn’t singling out Islam for disgust. It’s important to remember that the passage about killing apostates isn’t just a cherry-picked passage, it’s part of a central pillar of Islam that involves protecting the faith from kuffar at all costs.
Christians, for the most part, have learned to cast off the more violent commandments in their holy text (see: homosexuality in Leviticus) – Islam has not yet achieved this step forward.
The surveys done by Pew Research indicate that there are many millions, even significant majorities of muslims in certain regions who say apostates should be put to death. That is frightening.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/
@Peedur Dante: loving someone of the same gender was not illegal in this country…sodomy was. Whatever we’ve had here is nothing compared to the persecution homosexuals endure in the Islamic world or do you think this still happens in mainly Christian countries? If so please inform me with your knowledge.
@Peedur Dante: I’m not really patting Christians on the back for anything, it’s more that the secular forces in Western civilisation have forced their hand at every turn, compelling them to become less bigoted and less pious over a long period of time.
The problem is there are virtually no secular forces at work in the Muslim world, so a similar thing isn’t likely to happen any time soon (a ‘softening’ of Islam). It’s an ingenious strategy, really – Islam protects itself as an ideology by preventing the rise of secularism/non-belief, it mandates that good Muslims murder them before they get any ideas about freedom or tolerance.
“For the most part Muslims are normal people indistinguishable from you or me”
Is that really true? An ICM/Channel 4 survey found that over half (52%) of all British muslims want homosexuality to be illegal. Among the rest of the public, only 5% think the same.
I think you’d agree that anybody of that opinion is quite distinguishable from you and me, I wouldn’t ever want to be associated with such vile thinking. Obviously there are plenty of Western muslims who don’t think this way and never have, but is it really “for the most part” if it’s a majority?
@Peedur Dante: Unfortunately,those who have settled into the West, and who have been given the opportunity to voluntarily integrate, have refused to do so, so there would be no chance whatsoever of compelling them to do so. You can imagine their reaction to that.
@Peedur Dante: I wont argue against that , its a very complicated , difficult problem , and I dont think any of us will come up with a solution , other than a simple discussion such as this one . but I have never experienced the “water mixing with the oil” in any of our communities , so maybe we can agree that both sides can live peacefully , but never in harmony.??
@Peedur Dante: “the state is forcing a dangerous interpretation of Islam onto the people”
We’ve just discussed at length how even Western Muslims (of various backgrounds) have these repugnant views – second-generation immigrants to Britain can hardly claim the state is forcing them to hate gays, can they? At some point, ideology has to take the blame.
“The world would be a much better place if our Western countries stopped giving tacit support for these governments”
I couldn’t agree more, you’re spot on about the Saudis too, that detestable relationship should be cut off as soon as possible, but even when the West was absent from the Middle East entirely these horrendous attitudes existed – infidel were taken as slaves in the Barbary states, for example.
“I’m troubled that by from the tone of your writing you might be veering into the territory of demonizing Muslims”
I’d have to take exception to such a suggestion. I’ve been discussing the statistics and at no point did I ever imply that Muslims as a whole are bad people, I know that I didn’t because I don’t believe it. I’ve consistently defended Muslims from genuine bigots on this site, for example the genocide apologists who claimed Muslims ‘got what was coming to them’ (or variations of that kind of fascism) in Myanmar or the Balkans.
My point is, quite simply, that the barbaric side of Islam is far more prevalent than you seem willing to admit (both in the West and elsewhere) and that it is absolutely connected to the scripture – hence my hatred for the ideology.
“If there were a LARGE number of Muslims compliant with violent attacks then they would be vastly more frequent.”
Well, I’ve already demonstrated that there are a very large number of Muslims who are supportive of Islamic violence, even if we limit it to explicit support. I don’t know how much more violence you need to be convinced of this – most of the world’s terrorism isn’t enough?
Thousands – tens of thousands of deaths each year isn’t enough? The number of *actual terrorists* isn’t particularly large in the grand scheme of things, but the number of people who approve of their actions in whole or in part is absolutely staggering.
@Peedur Dante: ”The atrocious attitudes you’ve mentioned are prevalent in Muslim countries where the state is forcing a dangerous interpretation of Islam onto the people and have been doing so for decades.”
Is Tunisia forcing some ” dangerous interpretation ” of islam on it’s population ?
Tunisians started the ‘Arab spring’ yet it makes up the largest contingent of foreign fighters in isis .
You may have some friends who are muslim , what are their views on stoning adulterers to death , what are their views on muslim women marrying a non muslim , what about apostates .
@Peedur Dante: Have you ever had a deep discussion with your muslim friends about the ideology of islam ? perhaps you don’t want to ask questions so as not to offend .
It’s not the likes of me who calls for the acts committed in the name of islam , it’s in their holy book , I didn’t write it .
I was raised a catholic , was thought to believe in a god , but when I was able to make my own mind up , I saw religion for what it is , a control mechanism .
Can you tell me if you could criticise your muslim friends religion , and still keep them as friends ?
@Peedur Dante: I hear you , I have known many muslim people , but back in the 80′s and early 90′s , they were all quite liberal , but things are changing .
Islam is a supremacist ideology , I firmly believe that muslims who don’t know all of their quran , only the good parts , think they are right , but when their numbers get above a certain level , they believe YOU are wrong .
Do you understand what I mean .
@Peedur Dante: “I just don’t see what such an admission achieves [re: scale of Islamic violence]”
Well, as they say, the first step is admitting there’s a problem. Not just a fringe problem, a pervasive, global problem that is contributing massively human suffering and death.
“focusing on the barbaric nature of some of the texts can give fuel to the fire [for bigotry etc.]”
I don’t doubt it does, but that doesn’t mean we should ignore or even downplay the root cause of much of the violence; the scripture. It’s undeniable that it does contribute massively – thus attempting to downplay such a factor would be catastrophic if we’re going to solve anything. We can’t really be shy about calling this stuff out even if, sadly, it empowers the bigots – you just have to call the latter out too.
“the texts can be barbaric, does that make Muslims barbaric?”
Not all of them, nobody is saying that (or at least nobody semi-rational). But the text does make some, quite a lot, of Muslims believe they’re doing God’s work when they throw gays off buildings, behead blasphemers or carry out other generally evil deeds. The text also gives some kind of twisted justification to the crimes of various Islamic regimes – because many Muslims will value what the Koran teaches.
“I know thousands are killed by terrorism in warring countries but [...] they are at war [etc.]”
Even if you subtract the terrorism that occurs in failed states/war-torn regions the death toll each year is in the thousands. It’s no sideline issue, and though you’re correct that the problem is on a much smaller scale in the West I don’t tend to think about needless, senseless loss of human life and denial of basic rights as acceptable wherever it occurs, obviously you’d feel the same way. Some internationalist thinking is required here to grasp the full scale of the horror.
Re: religious freedom, teaching of Islam – upholding secular values such as freedom of religion (and irreligion) means much more to me than trashing any religious ideology. Banning the Koran, Bible, Torah etc. would be a horrific subversion of the enlightenment values upon which our society is based.
So, what to do? It’s a fair question. I admit that banning the teaching of an ideology I despise is no solution (and will never be, lest we descend into fascism), so instead I speak out against the ideology wherever I can. I accept the right of every Muslim to practice their belief, but I will firmly stick to my right to criticise it at every turn.
To do that, we have to be honest with ourselves about the poisonous elements of the text which can be so easily used by preachers to do damage. We need to be honest about the damage it’s doing. Just as I’d be honest about the unimaginable worldwide damage being done by, say, Catholicism if we were having this discussion decades ago.
@Peedur Dante: Odd comment , is there a specific colour in islam ?
Would a hindu have this same ”colour” .
What is the difference between you offending your parents about leaving your religion , and your muslim friends hurting their parents feelings ? is it not important that we as individuals make decisions .
There is no earthly punishment for leaving the catholic/christian religion , unlike islam , which has a SPECIFIC penalty .
So you can come on here all you want and defend islam , I’ll still ask you , why don’t you and your friends make a stand against an ideology that you’ve already said , you hate .
@Peedur Dante: I was on another article with a guy who said , ” 25% of the worlds population are muslim , if they were all terrorists , we would all be dead , well that’s not how life works .
You can easily find on the internet the views expressed by muslims regarding many issues , and I mean their views , go to a dawah website , read about polls conducted .
I don’t want to live in a society/country where tribalism rules , whether it be religious or otherwise , but I know one thing , where islam goes , trouble follows .
@Peedur Dante: “My experience has been with a small group of Muslim friends and acquaintances”
Has it occurred to you that you may be dealing with a fairly unrepresentative sample, though? If Muslims are talking to you in the first place they’re more likely to be tolerant and well-integrated into Western society, plenty of Muslims are, but there are plenty who aren’t and they wouldn’t give you the time of day. It’s a skewed sample.
Think back to survey about homosexuality attitudes among British Muslims – do you reckon you’re more likely to strike up a conversation with the half who believe homosexuality should be illegal or the half that don’t/aren’t sure? Not to put too fine a point on it, but the latter would be much less likely to have a problem talking to ‘infidel’… it may seem like I’m being dramatic but I can assure you that’s the type of thing you have to take into account.
The same applies with any other sect – you could have many Jewish friends but their attitudes aren’t representative of say, the ultra-orthodox Hasidic Jews who wouldn’t even look in your direction, as you are a gentile. The latter are less likely to be in your day-to-day life but their views can make a massive difference to the statistics.
“Perhaps I’m being naive in the extreme when I think that the majority of Muslims worldwide do not sympathize with the violence carried out in their name”
You’re not being naive. The stats do show that most Muslims do not sympathise with violence (depending on what country you’re talking about – but globally, you’re broadly correct). However, that doesn’t mean the minority opinion is tiny. It’s not. Anything less than 50% is a minority, but you wouldn’t say 45% (as an example) was insignificant, if you see what I mean. It’s not really a great comfort to say it’s a minority opinion if it’s so ubiquitous.
However, you spoke about Sharia law. As far as Sharia goes, the data does show that the majority of Muslims worldwide do support the implementation of Sharia (see Pew data). Sharia can range from dietary restrictions to executing blasphemers – but the fact that most want to live under a law based on the scripture is unsettling.
What I would stress is that you shouldn’t be so caught up in this ‘majority vs. minority’ mindset – if you’re only concerned about the issue when it hits the ’50% of 1.6 Billion’ mark then you’re missing the point. A sizeable, violent and powerful minority can do (and is doing) an immense amount of damage both here and abroad.
@Malachi: Fair play Malachi , you’ve made a very strong argument , the hardest thing is , trolls like Peedur will just melt away , they can’t reason with logic , they’ll be back defending this ideology after the next attack .
For me , it’s not the isis thing , i.e terrorism , it’s the total lack of integration , the difference in ideological viewpoints , it’s not about the colour of anyones’ skin , how can supposed liberals defend an ideology that would rather kill their daughters , than see them marry outside their religion , one of many things wrong with this ideology .
@Stephen murphy: Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Himmler, et al
As far as I am aware, no-one has indicated a motive. But go ahead, jump to conclusions, spread hate.
@Nick Caffrey: https://twitter.com/manish_05singh/s…53574760271872
Looks like a hippy or Hare Krishna
@Patric Cooney: Correct yourself..your wrong!!
@Harry byrne: there’s no evidence it’s terror related but that doesn’t mean it’s not terror related.
When that emerges I’ll gladly correct myself.
@Weldoninhio: Hippies and Krishna followers would be the last ones to do such things.
@RJ.Fallon: “Hippies and Krishna followers would be the last ones to do such things.” – don’t jump to conclusion here again !!
@Damien Wallanger: the most recent US terror attack (although it failed terribly) was by a Bangladeshi who the US are not bombing. People tried to say it was because of Trumps Israel decision but he was complaining about Christmas posters on the subway.
How do you then explain the attacks in Sweden? Are the Swedes actively bombing all these countries. How about the lads murder committed against the Sufi Muslims in Eygpt?
All these attacks were carried out because some vile people view non Muslims (or incorrect sects) as infidels which must be killed. Try to attribute all blame to the West but it’s just not true.
@Patric Cooney: See now, you were wrong. This was a guy with a mental illness. This was a criminal, not an ideological act.
But hey, why ask questions, it is much easier to blame all the Muslims.
@cortisola: apologies , I just have never heard of such acts by these people , so my conclusion has to be either that they dont do it , or that they are not likely to do it.
@Nick Caffrey: I’ll agree it looks like an act due to either mental health issues or drugs. I’ll accept this case has been an outlier.
I never blamed all Muslims. I simply stated that the empirical evidence would suggest this is the result of a backwards ideology (specifically one branch of that ideology).
@Nick Caffrey: “See now, you were wrong. This was a guy with a mental illness.” Also quite coincidentally he is from Afghanistan where there have never been any terrorists in the history of terrorism.
@Damien Wallanger: Are you for real?? Are you somehow justifying today’s attack by way of the actions of some western country’s foreign policies in the ME? I think you should do some research and you may find that the majority of innocent muslims killed by their fellow muslims….all because they are from the wrong sect.
Keep on being an apologist for these extremist acts….maybe they’ll spare a thought for you when they decide to act in Ireland.
It’s only a matter of time before the left wing libtards start complaining about the excessive force that was used to subdue this nut job
@Kevin Moylan: or not.
People often do not live down to the prejudices of the extremist right.
@gowfc@yahoo.com W: Godless people would have no reason to do this. These people are religious nuts.
@Joe Phillips: Run along and find a safe space.Bloody snowflake.
I am glad no body was hurt this time, so close to the Christian Festival when there are a lot of children and people around. Peace and safety to all people of all religions, sexual orientation, colour, class and creed.
@Rosemarie Martin: there were many people hurt
@Stephen: except they weren’t
OK let’s the lighten the f* up. Let’s start a drinking game.
How to play:
Every time you read or write the world “muslim” have one drink, “diversity” have 2 drinks and for “Islam” please have 3 drinks!
see you were all wrong !!!!!
Every country has within its population people who are prone to violence. Extreme Islam terrorism just gives those prone to violence a cause to act out their psychotic acts of violence. All this xenophobic talk of cutting immigration will do nothing to stop them
@Dave Harris: my comment was deleted so I’ll have to rephrase I think. Where are all the terror attacks in Poland and C. Republic from people who has been radicalised over the internet?
I’ll leave out the second sentence from my deleted comment as even though it’s factually correct it’s not permissible to mention it.
@Dave Harris: Xenoghobic talk is BAD, bombing their cities with billions-dolar-worth weapon is GOOD ? Do you work for Soros ?
@JimmyMc: not correct as the stated aim of extremists is to target any other religion or non religious peoples alike , for them it is a holy war, on the other end the right-wing affiliated minds want white supremacy, to stigmatize an entire group is what they need, the terrorists are giving it to them on a silver plate, voters flee to the right, hence the terrorist groups can say look they don’t want you in your society come fight with us, national security advisor of Trump, Mr mcMaster says the exact same thing
@Toki Wartooth: You’re such a luvvie! Impressed by foreign people are you? Inferiority complex maybe?
@Gary: We don’t know the motive yet.
@Arnold Alley: I would suggest you read up on the suppression of religion. Especially in Russia and China and Cambodia The idea that Atheism has some sort of clean slate is completely unfounded. Every ideology religious political or social has it’s fanatics and all have manipulated for power and gain. And mostly this starts with exceptionalism the idea that My Way is better and this gives me some sort of right to impose it on others
@Francis Devenney: I’ve come late to this thread , but what you are saying is true .
It’s human nature unfortunately , the chances of people having a logical reasoned discussion seem to be diminishing .
I have a dislike for the ideology of islam because of what I know about it and how it behaves when numbers reach a certain level , but I’m quite willing to listen to other peoples views .
I can’t sit on the fence about this topic , but if I can be persuaded by logic , I’m open to that .
@Kieran Conroy: the phrase could stigmatize Muslims or the religion of Islam, therefore it only benefits the extremists on both ends of the scale, implying this is part of a holy war
@Joe Phillips: Are you a terrorist sympathiser?
@Peedur Dante: Do you honestly think I care? Open the link u lazy bas**rd
@Peedur Dante: Thanks. No comments on the video no?
Not an act of terrorism my ar** , do they think people are that stupid, his mate filming it probably for their sick propaganda was arrested with 3 knives in his bag.
@Number 19: Only surprise in your comment is that you didn’t use the word “sheeple”. Other than that it could have been written by Alex Jones himself.
@gowfc@yahoo.com W: Godless/Atheists/Humanists, haven’t killed many people for their non-beliefs and it is usually the Religious who do it.
@Stephen murphy: nonsense Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot were all atheists
@Kieran Conroy: If you’re Irish, I’m deeply ashamed to have that in common with you
@Red Marauder: A very accurate description nonetheless.
So this guy was known to have a mental illness and subsequently drives a car into a croud trying to kill people, we’re all the previous attacks using a vehicle as a weapon carried out by people of sound mind?
@gowfc@yahoo.com W: Oh dear! It seems like all of our little keyboard detectives were wrong again!
@DoshCof: Strange, you can type but you can’t read!
@DoshCof: No deary but it appears you do! All those funny websites you’ve been visiting have scrambled your brains!
@Nick Caffrey: The issue is the “godless” part of his comment. As in only godless people commit atrocities like this. It’s quite the opposite in real life.
More male violence!!!
@Misanthrope: I would blame Trump for that !!
@Misanthrope: nothing from Veronica on that. Not her type of male violence. In fact she is probably all for uncontrolled illegal immigration of fighting age unknown males.
@Kieran Conroy: Are you a Trump fan?
@Don Shavago: that is a Moronic comment!
Some idiots talk like killing in the name of religion is new! FFS, I come from South America, do you know how many of my folks were slaughtered in the name of Christianity?
So do me a favour, shut the F up. It seems to be a world tradition to kill over some stupid imaginary man.
Do you know how many Irish were paid with land in Argentina if you killed enough native people? No, you don’t. So shut your gob and learn your bloody history.
It is never OK to kill another human being. End of.
You idiots blame diversity. As if!
@María Eugenia Baiardi: the most practical thing we can do is address the threats we currently face. The Christian community in the West isn’t a threat to people walking safely through a city.
Also just because something happened historically we should tolerate it in the modern day?
@Patric Cooney: Really? you are just another ISIS supporter by buying into what they intend to do. They want to spread fear, hate and prejudice. Just get off the high horse. Actually poverty, wealth inequality, tax breaks for the rich and climate change are the real threats! but yes of course, let’s squabble about this stupid shit. btw it wasnt a terror attack after all.
@María Eugenia Baiardi: they want to kill infidels and spread strict Islamic ideas across the world.
Those are all issues but how do they make this any less of an issue?
There’s no evidence that this was a terror attack but that doesn’t rule it out. Also I’ll happily correct myself if it’s not but I stand by my position that an educated guess would have to come to the initial conclusion that this was an Islamic terrorist attack.
@María Eugenia Baiardi: no not terrorism just another nutter given a chance in a forward thinking secular country but instead decided to attempt mass murder
@María Eugenia Baiardi: Actually I don’t know how many Irish people were given land in Argentina for killing natives , perhaps you could tell me , and throw in how your family got there .
@Kieran Conroy: ‘snowflake’ is very clever by the way. Did you come up with that? You’re an intellectual behemoth aren’t ya?!
Someone with a mental illness deliberately drive a vehicle into a crowd of innocent people ? That he is a follower of Bedlam is just coincidence ? How is it that many people have a mental illness and dont decide to kill as many as possible ,apart from themselves and those that are severely ill ,kill their families as we know in this country
have your say