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MAKING SMALL TALK in a confined space with strangers can be a bit of a social etiquette minefield.
Do you start a conversation in the few brief seconds you have? Stare at your phone, even though your reception is probably gone? And where are you even supposed to look?
So over to you – do you talk to strangers in lifts?
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If it keeps people in their homes, then yes.
However there should be a difference in approach between those who can’t pay and those who won’t pay.
@MK76:
Has it ever been proven that people choose not to pay and if so have they ever gained anything?
Unlikely in both cases.
@Stephen Maher: there’s been many a case where there’s never been a cent paid on a mortgage in years. .
@Stephen Maher: There certainly has, Matter what walk of life it is you’ll find people that will take advantage.
@Stephen Maher: Really niave comment, there are loads who have hopped on the bandwagon and choose not to pay
@Turk Oneeighttwo: the myth of the supposed strategic defaulters has never been empirically verified.
@Fiona deFreyne: is that true? Never actually heard anybody getting away with it but heard stories.
@Fiona deFreyne: really ? One example .. Dublin couple refused to pay one cent off their mortgage in two years . . Also refused to engage with the banks. The judge said it was obvious that they had no interest in paying it . Plenty more examples out there ..
@Siobhán Ni Mhurchú: name them or give a source. You have a propensity for empty blathering. In any event, one swallow does not make a summer.
@Fiona deFreyne: no you claimed it has never been verified which isn’t true .I gave you one example. . There’s more out there if you look for it . . The couple was from mount merrion .. seek and you shall find .
This is a crisis that gets little attention.
Im lucky to be able to pay my mortgage and as a taxpayer id like to see my tax used to help genuine people who are in arrears.
I believe the banks should be reminded it was the taxpayer that bailed them out so if a person is working but cannot keep up their payments, the banks should be made listen and accept a compromise.
@Trevor Hayden: they’re robbing interest rates alone should be enough to push them on. They’re clearly gouging
@Bilbo Baggins: Evidence please. I can prove the reason our mortgages rates our higher than our European counterparts directly as a result of how difficult it is repossess a home in Ireland compared to those other countries.
@Mary Murphy: then prove it.
@Fiona deFreyne: Limited to 800 characters here. Read this for a flavour. https://qz.com/50615/welcome-to-ireland-where-house-payments-are-optional-apparently/
In 2012 I tried to start a deposit taking bank in Italy and Spain where deposit rates where super low and the lend the money in Ireland as mortgages. However when I approached the authorities my application for licences were turned down at the initial stages. In reality I knew I would be turned down when I conducted my risk analysis and looked at delinquency rates in Ireland. Basically the buffer of capital and interest margin I needed in Ireland was higher than any other country in Ireland. The only way to run the business profitably was at interest rates higher than the banks were offering. If I charged lower I wouldn’t last
@Mary Murphy: Instead I borrowed 10 year money in Germany at an average just below 2%. In simple terms I then placed it on deposit in Ireland at a fixed rate of 4.5% which is what institutions in Ireland were paying at the time.
@Fiona deFreyne: Hence every time I here people telling me Irish bank mortgages are ripping us off I get annoyed as I know it’s completely the other way around. The only way to decrease our mortgage rates is to increase the ease at which banks can repossess. In Spain for example banks can start repossession after 3 missed payments. It will then only take them 3 months to take possession. It is so quick and efficient that the banks run online auctions on their own websites to sell the reposseions.
@Trevor Hayden: the banks do agreements and then deny they did and then send you confuse messages sell your mortgage to vulture funds and they bring you to court all along you are paying for it and getting threatening letters . That’s how this work . I live in fear
@WilhelminaMCallaghan: If thrse threats continue get in touch with the hub, byron will steer you in the right direction
@Trevor Hayden:nice to read a lovely comment ,
@Fiona deFreyne: Tony….if you want to educate yourself a little on the subject read this http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02673037.2013.818622?src=recsys&
I look forward to your comments now that I have proven it
This needs mediator not a court.
@Gillian Weir Scully:
A mediator can’t make a judgement on a case where one of the parties are not cooperating
How many family homes were given away to vulture funds by Fine Gael and Labour at knock down prices?
@Paul Mc: Fine Gael and Labour changed the rules allowing Banks incresed freedom to pester people.
The bankers should be jailed ‘ if they acted wrong
@FlopFlipU: why jail a banker? They are just businessmen with no morals or conscience. But they are powerless with filthy corrupt politicians i.e. ALL politicians
@FlopFlipU: anyone who commits an offence which carries a jail sentence should be jailed, but that isn’t the question that’s being asked
Let’s have a separate court to sort out the theft of millions from mortgage holders by the banks in the tracker rate scandal first! I’m sure there are many in trouble because of this in the first place!
@Michelle_Herbert: At least 30,000 mortgages and counting.
@Michelle_Herbert: wouldn’t the special criminal court suffice? I mean, the gouging banks fulfil the criteria to be tried there, no?
Yes 100%.. the cost behind going through the current system are …the person in trouble suffers mental torture and cost while the bank suffers costs only go figure and yes people borrowed and most accept the space they are in they did not set out to be here the lender’s however are risk free as they usually get their pound flesh at any cost including g human life……unbiased board required to look at why banks say no to deals v what is actually financially available to them ….common sense needs to be applied
Separate court for prosecution of financial mis-regulators and those involved in overcharging scandal???
@wyer2wyer: why would a seperate court be required for that?
Instead of getting more courts to “deal with this problem”, Perhaps, just perhaps it might be a better idea to start by asking the question: What is wrong in a country where 1 in 10 mortgage repayments are unaffordable to the house buyers?? If we could get some honest answers to that question, I think it would be a good starting point to begin making progress with the problem of mortgage arrears.
@Ian Oh: Unaffordable? People not paying doesn’t mean it is unaffordable. If it does than they shouldn’t keep it as they can’t afford it.
@Kal Ipers: Good man Kal, Blame the serfs. Its a traditional historical response from the upper crust. Just like the famine evictions of our shameful history. The simple problem today in Ireland is that mortgages and homes are unaffordable to a great multitude of people. The idea of our young people ever owning a home is now sadly just a fantasy. The Earnings figures of persons working in Ireland bear this out and show the bleakness of the situation. Those, not earning just the average industrial wage can crow all they want, but it does not change the fact of this disparity.
@Ian Oh: You calling people who went to the banks and took out loans at there own request to people who were subjects is your problem. They are no way comparable. When I personally know people who took out massive mortgages and bought themselves new cars I don’t class them as serfs.
@Kal Ipers: Oh yes they are comparable. Those presently earning the average industrial wage in this country are in essence subjects and serfs all in one. It is a huge problem for all, not just me personally. And maybe those that bought new cars needed them to get to work to enable them to pay the massive over-inflated mortgages? etc……. If they had some old banger, they’d be crucified for road tax and repairs and you’d be crowing that they were a danger on the roads and should be banned. etc….. Sadly the times we live in.
@Ian Oh: No they will never be comparable. It is incredibly insulting to everyone to make such a comparison. My example was one of my friends who was earning the same as me and buying at the same time. They took out a much larger mortgage than us and bought cars too. They struggle we don’t and it was completely their own choice. According to you they are some slave class and I am upper crust. We live in a small 3 bed with one car, they have a 5 bed and two 4x4s. They chose to live away from work and commute long distances and take out a large mortgage.
@Kal Ipers: Your example is just a nonsense because it does not account for the 1 in 10 mortgages that are unaffordable by virtue of lack of earnings. We have a Government that condones cheap labour and zero hour contracts etc to be exploited at will by those who make huge profits for rich shareholders. Apple being a prime example….. But No, lets evict the scroungers you say. Just like famine times.
@Ian Oh: How is it nonsense? They are one of the people not paying their mortgage so they are example of the people you are defending! The people who are not paying their mortgages signed up for the agreement. How may people working for Apple are on minimum wage and zero hour contracts? You have indiscriminate aggression for everyone other than the people who took out loans and stopped paying. Do they have no personal responsibility?
Almost all repossessions were done illegally in this country, the banks so far have had it easy but I think that’s about to change in the near future. First and foremost our government allowed repossessions to take place in the circuit Court when it should have been the high Court
@Paul O Riordan:
I’m sure the judiciary are more familiar with the intricacies of the law than you are.
@Avina Laaf: how sure are you. Do you know me
@Paul O Riordan:
If the collective judiciary (whose job is to interpret the law) have decided that repossessions aren’t illegal then I highly doubt that your assertion that they are would get very far in court. Feel free to try.
@Avina Laaf: Paul is right. Circuit courts only have legal jurisdiction to deal with monetary sums which are less than €75 K. End of. They are claiming that they are using rateable valuation as the basis of getting under the €75K ceiling, but residential properties do not have any rates since 1961. Basically a legal con. In any cases where the defence points out this anomaly along with the acts involved, the judiciary throw out the case. So the Judges know all about this. They are just not saying.
The real question is
Should we have a Court to truly investigate the Banks.
I’ve had dealings with 3 different Banks, 2 of which have tried to screw me, through (honestly) not fault of my own !
All judges should retire at aged 65.
Yes. Obviously every case is different. If your not paying out of choice or within similar context for whatever self-proclaimed reason, your in breach of your agreement and should be brought to court, we are all grownups. If your not paying your mortgage because you can’t afford it, are in crippling debt, or any other extenuating circumstances that’s a whole different ball game and should be dealt with separately and in a non-criminal way. They should keep there home and the situation should be explored and assistance offered.
Why is it that people think they should keep something they wont or cant pay for? When getting a loan you are told of and agree to the risks should you not be able to pay the installments . Stop the bleeding hearts and make people take responsibility for themselves.
@Mumpsimus: and leave the Banks without any responsibility except to fiddle borrowers.
Mortgages should be non recourse. They’d be more careful in their lending practices then.
@Ciaran O Shea: Yes and nobody would ever pay them back and interest rates would be higher. Have you ever studied economics?
@Mary Murphy: you clearly don’t understand what he means by non-recourse.
@Ciaran O Shea:
True, but people would be paying more for their mortgages then.
Having been through my own personal “Morguage” and finishing about 15 yrs ago,,,there had been no support whilst going through the rough times,,,,a “Morguage” is simply like finance for a car,,,,you know what your signing for and you maintain you are in a possition to pay the bearer on demand,,,,its simple as that.
I’m a little squeptical many whom signe on the dotted line,,,havent really thought about 30yrs forward ie will i or will we be in work,,,Hymmmm,,,i want a new car i suppose there will be special courts for finance next,,,yet will i ever signe for finance not on your nelly not even if its 0 % finance,,,,you see,,the shortfall today is,,Employers can not truly guarantee tomorrow,,,so look with”Brexit” being the next colapse im guessing keep your money safe.
@Michael Donovan: I guess that’s why there’s such a thing as a Mortgage protection plan, where you can defer payment for a fixed period at no penalty should you find yourself unemployed.
@Andrew Giles: That isn’t mortgage protection. It pays your mortgage it doesn’t defer it and it has a cost which many people don’t pay for.
@Andrew Giles: thanks,,,,Andrew,,,check the small print you pay for everything and the ironic thing about it you own nothing,,,,your simply a caretaker,,,,fom the day your born unfortunetly to the day you die,,,you own nothing not even the skin on your back,,,,Merry Christmas.
The EU have €9.4bn to ireland in order to help distressed mortgage holders and nobody asking where this has gone!! One TD, when asked, said it went to the banks.
What have they done with it?
Meanwhile,people who rent should be evicted.They are inferior
@Declan Wall: So true. All those who can’t earn enough to afford Leo’s €350,000 affordable house need to be put into the rental market. ;)
There does need to be a change. Either they get the property or the debt follows the person not both as is current. The mentality of somebody not losing their “home” has to go. For mortgages to work there has to be consequences when you stop paying. It is just the basics of any loan
The banks took property’s and hung on for a few years until the property valued up again somewhat ,adding this to what was already paid off the property’s the banks lost nothing when you take into account the bail out ,the banks should shoulder all the cost of the loss over the following years as they were the cause of it
Many thought the taxpayer would bail them out and sat back .
While a seperate court might speed proceedings no court should ever be set up with such a clear objective as “to encourage a deal not a possession order”. Law is law and the courts must act as due process dictates.
The current merry go round of Circuit courts issuing repossession orders is completely unlawful. Circuit courts only have legal jurisdiction to deal with monetary sums which are less than €75 K. They are claiming that they are using rateable valuation as the basis of getting under the €75K ceiling, but residential properties do not have any rates since 1961. Basically a legal con. In any cases where the defence points out this anomaly along with the acts involved, the judiciary throw out the case. So the Judges know all about this. They are just not saying.
PPI HYMMMM,,,,MOURGUAGE PROTECTION,,,,HYMMMM,,,,CHECK THE SMALL PRINT YOU PAY FOR EVERYTHING,,,,MERRY CHRISTMAS.
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