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WITH THE COLLAPSE of the Northern Ireland executive talks and speculation about gaelscoileanna carrying out pre-interviews with young children, there has been a lot of talk this week about the Irish language this week.
The 2016 Census showed that 1.76 million people in the country can speak as Gaeilge, but only 73,803 people said they speak it every day (outside school) and just 8,068 Irish language Census forms were completed.
Lots of us have those cúpla focal but not enough to get by. What about you?
Would you like to be able to speak more Irish?
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Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam
@John kane: leave the poor Austrians alone
@John kane: An bhfuil cead agam dul go dtí an leithreas? :)
@Conor Mac Fhinn: Austria has for most of its history spoken German. It’s the “natural” language of the Austrian people. The Irish people for the vast majority of our history have spoken Irish. Due to centuries of government neglect it’s use has decreased dramatically.
@John kane: what?
@Éamonn Flynn: nílim ach ag magadh Éamon, cheap mé dá mbéadh sé níos fearr ná na argóintí atá i gcónaí ar siúl anseo.
And i would say it was more systematic repression than neglect for the most part
@John kane:
The quote is from Pearse and is just a bit of rhetoric. There is more than a language that defines a nation.
@Conor Mac Fhinn: huh. What’s Austrians to do with this article. ???
@Sandra O’Fucáif: yeah da schools did a bad job alrite. I went to Gaeltachts, my dad is a fluent Irish speaker, I follow an Irish Soap and mostly importantly I repeat Irish to myself when I see signposts etc. I sometimes converse in Irish with my dad too. I even attempted to answers in Irish for my French Leaving Certificate exam.
Sign up to Duolingos Irish course. It’s free and a great way to refresh the memory from school. All about accessibility and spending a few minutes every day on the App is a great first step.
@Colm K: started with Duolingo last month, flying along with it. Although my pronunciation is shocking. Never learnt in school, loving it now though.
@Colm K: thanks for that i just dowloaded it there. Might help refresh my irish
@Colm K: Class! Didn’t know about that site
@shellakybookey: another good resource is TG4, very few languages have such a wealth of spoken entertainment examples.
@Geffrey Kane: Nemo Irish app is great for pronunciation, you can download a free trial for the first 100 words.
@Platypus Parcel: Maire Treasa ni Domhnail would make anyone want to speak Irish.What a star and she knows her rugby too.
@Geffrey Kane: Yeah Irish probably has the most difficult pronunciation of any language in Europe.
But it’s still really important to learn it. Without proper pronunciation there is no difference between so many words. For example labhair (to speak), leabhar (book) and leabhair (books) should all be pronounced very differently but it’s difficult for English speakers to do it. Definitely far from impossible though.
@Platypus Parcel: cool , I think I say with confidence that given I was able to go on and learn a whole bunch of new subjects and skills from scratch post grad including a masters degree that any system that has me in a class from the age of 4 until leaving cert is DEFINITELY not teaching the bloody subject properly if I am still so hopeless at having a conversation in Irish language at this stage of my life
@Colm K: There is currently a free course on FutureLearn, run by Dublin City University called Irish 101.
Irish is a great language when taught properly, went to a Gaelscoil and I love it but everyone I know in English schools hated it. Something is up there.
@2nd account: That really cuts to the heart of the issue, we know how to teach Irish in an effective manner to produce fluent speakers (Gaelscoils), yet we pretend to teach Irish in the curriculum present in English schools and blame our lack of interest or application on our inability to speak the language.
It would be a wonderful asset to our national identity for us all to have been brought through Gaelscoils and to be conversing freely in our native tongue. Although you’ll always get those who try to bring it down with illogical arguments like it’s of no benefit or nobody else speaks it, neither of which holds back the Swedes, the Danes or even the Dutch from speaking the language of their ancestry in addition to their high proficiency in the more ‘practical’ English language.
@2nd account: Speaking the language is the key, if we spoke more to children and conversed in Irish as much as English to kids in those first few years then it wouldn’t be such an issue. Primary school should concentrate on verbal Irish and leave all the grammar to secondary when kids can actually converse. Well that’s how I feel would have benefited me but will definitely look at that course mentioned above
@Sean: I think those people who put the language down are embarrassed they can’t speak their own language, I am although I do try even when I’m sniffed at when I do. But you have to remember we were conditioned to hate our own language and even being Irish over a few hundred years. We hated it before Peig ever came along, Peig and the way Irish is thought in school didn’t help either.
@Sean: The difference is that 100% of native Swedes speak Swedish as their first language. That’s always been the case. Here, English has been the dominant language since the 18th century and in many parts of the country well before that. Very few Irish people, even those who attended a Gaelscoil, can speak Irish to the same level as they can English. More people speak Klingon fluently that speak Irish, that says it all really.
@Damon16: You appear to have missed the context of my comparisson, I contended that if we all went through the Gaelscoil system we would have a profficiency in our native language, and that this could be compared with countries such as Sweden where an overwhelming majority of citizens are fluent in their ancestoral tongue, despite it’s limited value outside of their homeland.
None of that is in conflict of the fact that English has unfortunitly been our dominent language since the 18th century, merely an observation that if we all went through an education in a Gaelscoil (where we know how to teach Irish), we might be able to converse with one another in Irish. Which would be of similay cultural value to our society as it is for the Swedes to communicate in their native language.
@Stephen Winterson: I’m not the least bit embarrassed by my lack of Irish Stephen and I put the language down all the time. Like so much in this god awful country the education system is a joke. We can’t teach our national language any better than we can teach Spanish German or French.
It shouldn’t be mandatory when so much else badly needs to be taught in this country.
@Stephen Winterson: Stephen, surely everyone speaks their own language? Is this not what makes it their L1?
@Declan Fitzsimons:
Language is used to communicate and most of us Irish communicate in English. The learning of Irish should be optional. Democracy and not Republican Democracy.
@Sam Alexander: Agreed
I’d like to speak more French or Spanish, more practical..
@Dotty Dunleary: so go and learn it then if it’s practical
@David Carino: Thanks for the insightful advice..
@David Carino: Dotty will be able to order her glass of sangria in Spanish when she arrives in Benidorm. Personally I take pride in our culture, would love to speak it fluently.
@Dotty Dunleary: Then why limit yourself. Learn both and stay cool.
There are a plethora of aids available to achieve this, your only limit is hard work and your mental chains.
Stay cool!
@Pat Bateman: I’d Bring Sandra O’Fuc-oaf to Paris or Barcelona for dinner and order whatever fell off the floor to be cooked for her, in my perfect French or Spanish!
@Pat Bateman:
take pride in your culture. Do you still go to mass or are you selective in what you define as “our culture”.
@Sam Alexander: I don’t go to mass no. Yes I’m selective in what I define as our culture. While Catholicism is certainly a part of Irish culture, you can still be proud of other aspects of Irish culture without being religious.
I voted yes but I’m still to lazy to motivate myself to learn.
@Dermot Lane: Best way to refresh is probably to find something social rather than formal. Some pubs have irish nights I even recall a workplace that had a coffee morning in Irish once a week.
Think the big failing for my generation learning irish was it was shoved down our throat as something “cultural” and was thought through prose and poetry rather than something living. Then the first time you get a french lesson it is all about practical and day to day.
Think the way irish is taught now is better, more conversational less bull. But a few pints and some conversation might be the way to go for some fun language refreshment.
@Dermot Lane: Duolingo! You can literally set it to 10xp and that means it’s just spend about four minutes every day – you’d be surprised at how quickly you pick things up from it too!!
@Gavin Tobin: Check out the pop up Gaeltacht. It’s in a different pub every month.
@Chucky Arlaw: yeah I use Duolingo and Michel Thomas to learn portuguese. Duolingo is great to give basics
Would a better question not be – Would you be willing to put in the effort to learn to speak better Irish?
Obviously if given the choice of just begin better at any language, people would say yes?
@Brinster:
*being*
(Clearly I’d like to be better at English).
@Brinster: Don’t worry about typos Brinster. I imagine that you would make a very good student of Irish – and your English is excellent.
The way Irish is taught in schools is terrible. All about getting you through exams. I was in Irish classes for 13 years between national and secondary school and can barely string 2 sentences together. I studied German for 3 years in secondary school and remember more of it!!
I am very proud to be fluent in Irish, having studied from playschool to primary to secondary school. My niece is currently following in my footsteps and she loves speaking Irish to me and her friends
Newsreaders , continuity announcers and any public information recordings should be in a neutral delivery. The use of dialects is not helping the spread of the language.
@Jack Purcell: Very true, take the weather on TG4 as an example. It sounds like one of the presenters has a Donegal accent in Irish and some words I just can’t make out.
@Jack Purcell: A neutral or standardised dialect has been developed for Irish but it never got widespread acceptance. Difference between dialects is frequently exaggerated particularly by those who have very little Irish.
@Nick Drake: it’s the same for English surely – I can’t understand people from Newcastle?
@Thomas Harrington: Agreed.That Wicklow accent is so hard to undersand.
@Thomas Harrington: Geordie is easy once you adopt the mindset that note outbound a Scotsman who had a kick in the mouth. A Geordie told me that too.
@Patrick J. O’Rourke: I’m not sure what my spollchecker was trying to say there. Anyway adopt the mindset that its like listening to a Scotsman…
@Jack Purcell: So then you go to the Gaeltacht and as result of only hearing this standard pronunciation you don’t understand any of the locals.
Question…”Would you like to be able to speak more Irish?”
Answer….
Tá
@Patty Cullinane: ba mhaith
I think the Irish have made the choice some time ago. The answer was “no”.
@Davor Niksic: when? Can u please tell me when my or any Irish ancestors decided that we didn’t want to speak our native tounge. We didn’t decide we wanted to speak English we had no choice there’s a difference
That’s a tough one. My experience of learning Irish has been wholly negative so i don’t feel any drive whatsoever.
Ta me fluent hi.
I’ve found myself in the situation a few times where the only possibility of communication was French (in Argentina) and German (Finland), and I’m a certified hopeless case at both.
German was the only foreign language the 70+ yr old Finnish man in our shared cabin on the ferry could manage. But he was eager to talk about his experiences as a soldier stationed at the Russian border, and so we talked for about an hour. And we managed.
This is a virtually impossible situation with Irish. People will switch to English because they can.
@Mick Tobin: This is rapidly becoming an impossible situation in all languages. Eventually practically everyone is going to know English. And you will find plenty of older speakers who are far more comfortable speaking Irish and may have relatively limited English.
If you have an interest in dipping your toe in private, try Duolingo – millions using it worldwide. If you feel a little braver, check out a local Pop-up Gaeltacht, one of the most successful initiatives in recent years. Everyone feels a little more fluent after a drink! http://www.peig.ie lists Irish language events by county. If you live near Naas or Sallins, there is a huge Seachtain na Gaeilge programme with events for fluent speakers and learners, older and younger. Cookery as Gaeilge, free open-air concert, bowling, even the Garda Station is holding an open-day as Gaeilge as well as loads more. Communities using Irish is the way forward. Craic, caint agus ceol le chéile. Bígí linn!
I would love to learn more Irish, but I always poor at languages at school which has left me with a lack of confidence in my adult years.
@Lisa Saputo: just take small steps ..download duolingo and start from there ..
I speak a very little amount and it’s far more than any of my friends are able.
It’s a novelty not a practicality.
As for 1.76 million claiming to be able to speak it, that’s just ridiculous. Obviously vast exaggeration or confirmation we are a country of bullsh!tters.
No doubt some dopes on here will try and spin it around and make it yet another fault of Brexit.
@Ben Guy: the only dope mentioning brexit is you
For those of you in Dublin wanting to improve your Irish without taking formal classes, join Na Gaeil Óga. We’re an Irish speaking GAA club with football, hurling, camogie and mixed underage teams. People with all levels of Irish are welcome as long as you are happy to use what you have and improve it.
cumannclg@gmail.com
@Aindí Mac An Táilliúra: We really need so much more of clubs like yours. As far as I know you’re the only Irish speaking GAA club in all of Dublin. I wouldn’t have much hope about the rest of the country if that’s true.
If you want to go ahead nothing stopping you, plenty of resources out there. Personally I don’t speak Irish and have no desire to. All this no language no country stuff is rubbish, having English as our main spoken language has served the country very well.
@Richard Keogh: That’s not actually true. There are plenty of obstacles stopping people from choosing to speak Irish. Choosing to speak Irish is a constant battle against government agencies and departments, despite our taxes going towards them. As for English having served the country well, this actually cannot be verified or quantified. Seeing as we cannot see what an Irish-speaking Ireland would have looked like, all we can do is speculate. So, your statement that English has served us well is neither verifiable nor quantifiable.
@Brian Ó Dálaigh: By the same token, it is neither verifiable nor quantifiable if the restoration of Irish as the L1 of our citizens would be of any benefit. What we do know is that, despite 90 years of multi-faceted efforts, compulsion and tens of billions of taxpayers money being directed towards these efforts, Irish, as a community language, has declined to less than 1% of the population of this country.
@Declan Fitzsimons: The one major think that the government has done to revive Irish has been to make it compulsory in schools. Which was done terribly. Nearly all other state efforts have been pure tokenism.
And maybe it’s decline as a community language was a result of complete neglect? Have state services ever been provided through Irish? No. Has there ever been significant investment in Gaeltacht areas (and many other parts of the country)? No. Was Irish taught properly to native speakers? No. They are taught as if they are learners therefore many leave without a native level competence in Irish.
@Éamonn Flynn: ‘Was Irish taught properly to native speakers’…a minor contradiction!!
Currently taking classes to brush up on it
No. Always hated it. I don’t know anyone else who can speak it either so it’d be pointless.
@Keith McDonagh: I once hated it too- in boarding school. But I’ve got to love it through living for a while with native speakers. It’s a beautiful language with a very rich and rewarding literature – I hope you enjoy it some day as much as I do
Learn more Irish here,
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClg5zuS_hCjvI3EIqCHmDnA
Tbh I’d find Latin more useful.
@Keithy McKeitherson: How in the name of God can Latin be more useful?
If you could get an implant that would allow you to speak one (and only one) extra language fluently, would you pick Irish or a foreign language?
@Declan Fitzsimons:
What a waste of a magical implant.
We go about the British taking our language yes put the real cause was the education system instead of one formal way to teach every year you had teach for a different part of the country who knew differently. Like we learn other languages it just a common one but most would know that quicker and better. Than the 15 odd years learning Irish.
@: * a teacher.
Before i went to primary school i was really good at irish as my mum thought me loads & all through my primary school i was always good at it but soon as i hit secondary school i was introduced to peig.. wasn’t practical learning about some woman & her life on an island so lost interest in the language after that but would love to be able to speak it today so going to try the App!
No, its pointless. I must try speak more German
@Tony Stack: *to speak more German
I’m already effluent. Seriously, though, is “fluent” really a helpful term when referring to a mode of communication and understanding…too similar to “gushing”, and presupposes a a another language to be like a quantifiable mass that can be acquired by formal learning, like algebra, geography or science. Language is organic and very much context-related. Much if not most English is spoken agrammatically, for instance – not right or wrong, but evolving norms in a language community. I think “fluent” is a reflection of the way Anglophone monoglots in particular feel somewhat intimidated by other languages. Proficiency in a language is more complex. For instance, a person might a limited vocabulary in a language, but have it well and at the tip of her tongue.
I am “English” (prefer to avoid labels if I can though) and am learning Irish through classes in my local library so other libraries might be doing the same.By all means look at Duolingo but Memrise is also very good.
Instead of Irish schools, why not have language schools – taught in a way where you can actually converse, unlike my 11 years force-learning a language I still cannot speak with any decent fluency. I can speak French, Spanish and meager German – all with greater fluency than the language I was forced to learn for 11 years. I love learning languages but never Irish as it was forced on me in a way that smacked of some watery National identity.
Irish – a lovely quaint ancient language, a nice hobby, but not for forcing on others.
What a joke. The Irish people have voted with their mouths long enough.
yo prefiero hablar inglés yo prefiero usar ingles podría ser irlandés pero irlandés no es mi lenguaje hablado
We’re being out-bred. Hang on to everything Irish that you have.
@Paul Culligan:
There’s nothing Irish left.
We gave it all away when we sold our souls to the EU
The way Irish is thought it this country is not helping , schools teach Irish like it’s a punishment, they should make it fun and children should not be forced to learn Irish and then grow up hating it .
does that question mean would we like more opportunities to speak it more or does it mean would we like to have more of the language to be able to speak it more? Eat shoots and leaves.
Dead language bin it
No tks
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