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“I THINK IT is time to see a little bit of humility from our banks,” said Health Minister Simon Harris when asked about the €4 billion mortgage sale by Permanent TSB today.
The statement from the minister comes a day after a Fine Gael parliamentary party meeting in which members raised concerns that the government is coming across as the “spokespeople for the banks”.
PTSB, which is 75% State owned, has been defending its plan to sell off a book of non-performing loans known as Project Glas.
The proposed sell-off of 18,000 properties, including 14,000 private dwelling homes, has become the subject of a political battle in recent days.
Yesterday, Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe conceded that even homeowners who engaged with the bank could find their mortgage arrangements with PTSB are not honoured by the buyer.
Speaking about the issue today, Harris said the government had to “find a balance” whereby they protect mortgage holders, but also ensure there is a stable banking system.
Sinn Féin’s Pearse Doherty said PTSB has been invited to appear before the Oireachtas Finance Committee next Tuesday.
Doherty told the Dáil the bank has informed the committee that it has already entered into “confidentiality clauses” with interested parties and would be restricted in speaking about certain issues. A formal invitation has been issued to the bank today.
“The train has left the station – these are vulture funds,” he said, referring to the interested parties.
‘Time to see a bit of humility’
Harris said PTSB should appear before the Oireachtas Finance Committee:
I think PTSB should go before an Oireachtas committee. I think it is time to see a little bit of humility from our banks – banks that the taxpayers of this country have supported through very, very difficult times.
I think they could do an awful lot worse than show a little bit of humility and engage with the people’s representatives. I think that should happen, that is a matter for the bank, but that is my personal view.
Harris said Minister Donohoe had a “constructive” meeting with Fianna Fáil’s Finance spokesperson Michael McGrath about a new Bill, due to be introduced next week, which seeks to regulate the vulture funds.
He said the government wanted to work with all parties on the issue.
Minister says the loans have not been sold
The health minister said there is time to tackle the issue as the loans have not been sold and the finance minister has not been consulted yet. “There will be time to engage,” he said.
However, Harris said people listening to the debate may get worried when they hear statements like: “The train has left the station.”
He maintained a decision on the sale has not been made nor has a decision been made about the potential buyer.
“Please don’t scare people,” he told Doherty.
The Sinn Féin spokesperson said that it was time to “insert some honesty” into the debate.
While he said he is in favour of regulating the vulture funds, it will not be the “magical solution”.
‘Vulture funds don’t do long-term solutions’
Even if vulture funds are regulated, long-term loans should not be sold to them under any circumstances, he insisted.
“They are only interested in the short-term turnaround and the quick turnaround,” said the Donegal TD, who said unlike banks they do not have a public persona or reputation to keep up.
Citing Central Bank figures, Doherty said 120,000 home mortgages were restructured by the end of September 2017 – with the vast majority (87%) of these accounts meeting the terms of the restructured arrangements.
However, he told the minister all of these deals done with customers were done by regular banks, not vulture funds.
He said vulture funds don’t offer the suite of options mentioned above, because they don’t have to.
“They [vulture funds] don’t do split mortgages, they don’t do interest only, they don’t do arrears capitalisation,” he said.
Doherty told Harris that families at home and renters in the buy-to-lets due to be sold “are hoping and praying that you will stand up to the vultures and stop this sale”.
The Sinn Féin TD said the government must tell PTSB that it is not allowed to sell long-term family products to vulture funds who only have a short-term interest.
If you sell long-term products to companies that have a three or five-year interest, it will only end in one way and that is repossessions, that is people being evicted, that is more homelessness and we cannot stand here as legislators and pretend that there is some sort of magic solution.
You own 75% [of the bank]. Lift the phone, tell Jeremy Masding [PTSB CEO] the government refuse to stand idly by while you are about to throw your customers to the wolves just because you didn’t get your act in order over the last three years and work those mortgages down the way that you should have.
Harris said he is conscious that some homeowners are “concerned” and “worried”.
He said the government would work towards providing “maximum security, clarity and assurance” to mortgage holders.
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Never mind asking the banks to show humility, or pleading quietly that they behave … draw up some legislation to put them in line. That’s what you’re in a position to do, minister. The government can make laws so that justice and fair play is seen to be done.
@J.D. Finnerty:
Draughting protective legislation requires an impartial government with decency. What we have is bunch of subservient cowards.
@J.D. Finnerty: Do you mean legislation to keep the banks in line by stopping them from being able to repossess houses (or passing the loan to someone else to repossess)?
@J.D. Finnerty: Our government needs to grow a pair and stand up for the Irish People and stop protecting these banks that are 75% owned by the tax payers of Ireland.
@Charliegrl80: If I owned 75% of a bank I’d want only good loans on my books.
@J.D. Finnerty: was about to say the same…MAKE them toe the line, dont just talk about it
@Tweed Cap: I’ve more respect for a guy that comes into a bank with a shotgun than these s(umbags…..
@J.D. Finnerty: it can be done, but it won’t be done.
@J.D. Finnerty: not this lot. F G mantra as proven by Michael Noonan’s actions. Make sure that the little people pay for the greed and incompetence of the Bankers
Doherty is a class act, make a great finance Minister…
@Peadar Ó Gréacháin: Doherty should have taken the reigns from Adams not that fake tan lover
@Peadar Ó Gréacháin: Indeed is showing some leadership on this issue where the government parties are failing.
@Peadar Ó Gréacháin: LOL. college drop out. makes him perfect for shinnernomics : )
A bank can only see profit not humility or humanity
@the druid: do you have a pension?
@the druid: damn… well the point I was making was “vulture fund” is just a media buzz word. Funds such as pentions all have investment in low risk markets. Its how your pention grows. You will know someone somewhere who has a pention. Are they the big evil fat cat vulture portraid by the general media? No, they are some poor sod hoping the government hasnt dipped into the pention fund (again) before they need it.
@the druid:
yes use your vote to send finefail the way of the labour party.
remember Leo’s “not a penny more ” well he kept his word and just gave them billions.
probably borrowed from endas ” seismic retrospective bank deal ”
we have a govt of liars
The national pension fund should buy the loan book. Then rent the homes back to distressed borrowers and do deals with the ones who can. Pension fund would make a decent return. Win win.
@Stephen Cullen: Swiftly followed by everyone defaulting on their mortgage to get sold to the pension fund and to get a nice deal. Also where does the pension fund get the money…which assets should it sell to buy the mortgages, or should it borrow the money to buy the debt?
@Stephen Cullen: How do you define “distressed”. Those who can’t pay or won’t pay?
@Stephen Cullen: Rent the houses back? Really? And how many decades before they get the money back? And then they need to hire companies to manage the buildings, and pay for maintenance.
That’s a lose lose situation.
@Andy K: that’s what normal pension funds do, buy property as a long term investment, rent it out for a long term return. Steady stable income, steady stable pension payments. Logical.
@zippo: yes but not at knock down prices. They rent them out at market prices
@Mary Murphy: you’re forgetting these mortgage holders have invested into the property also. The rent should reflect that too.
@Stephen Cullen:
the national pension fund has already emptied the coffers for banks so WE ALREADY OWN THE MORTGAGES .
Has this guy just come out of the school yard!! banks do’int do humility they do profit and off course we need a “Stable banking system”.
@noBankAccBertie: Your comment has me puzzled. Are you implying the banks should make a loss, and that we should have an unstable banking system?
@noBankAccBertie: So banks should give people presents of the money other people have saved or invested in the bank because some people took too much money and can’t pay it back?
This government put huge distress on this nation with taxes to bail out these banks.
They sold all round them to Vultures….
Time to use the same hard fist to do something for those in distress…
But it won’t happen as FF FG LIEBOUR put the system in place to suit the status quo for nearing 100 years now. We need change people…
@Willy Malone: Well, the alternative SF will throw this country to the wolves if that’s what you are suggesting. They can’t even form a government in the North for a year and a half, imagine what chaos would happen in a real country.
I have a question…. I am not trying to start an argument or put forth any political agenda as I don’t have any affiliations…
What should the banks do with underperforming loans? If these homeowners don’t engage and don’t pay… What is to be done… Just wondering what people think!
@Jon Shannow: careful Jon. I asked the same question yesterday, expect Patty to write you an essay soon mentioning tracker scandal, bailouts and everything else without mentioning an alternative.
@Jon Shannow: well that was the moral hazard attached to bailing out private banks with 64bn of taxpayers money, a decision that was made overnight with no notes taken and based on flawed evidence given by unaccountable banking heads to say it was an insolvency issue. Next thing Joe Public is going to be saying hang on a minute here where’s my bailout? No getting away from that fact. What should be done? Well if PTSB are selling the debt to a vulture fund for 40cents in the euro maybe they should offer similar deals to the homeowners. They have already done this for buy to let landlords. These debt write offs are tax deductible so the tax payer will be on the hook again.
@Sean: That would work, if it didn’t reward people for not paying their mortgage. Those who have struggled but kept up repayments end up paying full whack. It would encourage defaults in the future.
@Sean: First Q…if the homeowner can afford to buy the mortgage at 40%…then why can’t they afford to pay the mortgage they have now? Q2 How do you stop everybody defaulting so that they can buy their mortgage for 40% ?
@Sean: so what happens to the family who took a 400k loan who can pay back.. where is the fairness in that… they continue to struggle and pay.. the family that get the write down are now miles ahead in payment…
@Mary Murphy: exactly.. if writedowns are given.. it’s everyone or no one.. 2 people living next to each other buy same house at same price and now one gets 60% written off.. the other doesn’t I couldn’t support that as a tax payer and homeowner
@Jon Shannow: Basically they are selling off all these loans at a loss in a bundle to a massive company who will demand full payment from the borrowers. They will do so in a far more aggressive manner than the banks will. Since the bank was bailed out by the general public people rightly believe that maybe the people who cannot afford their mortgages (as opposed to the minority who are strategic defaulters) should have their loans restructured. It makes sense to give these people a discount rather than a vulture fund, but PTSB are just interest in making their balance sheet look nice now.
@Aidan O’ Neill: would you be in favour of giving these 14k people a write down of a certain amount of debt.. What do we do when their neighbour wants it and so on.. why shouldn’t they get the same consideration.. honestly not having a go.. Just wondering what the best solution is, without going to a communist utopia where everyone is equally poor!
@Mary Murphy: That is the excuse being loudly spun here for doing nothing to help those in mortgage distress.
@Jon Shannow: IMO legislation exists to pursue the defaulter through the courts, leading to repossession I suppose. It would cost the bank in legal fees but they would get the property. Surely less expensive than a 60% write down? Seems to me the banks are in a hurry to get rid of bad debt – at a loss – instead of pursuing the “correct” course of action
@Tony: yes they are in a hurry because with all the bad debts on their books it is crippling their business and stopping them lending. Imagine it. takes them another 10 years to sort it out…the banks will be restricted all that time.
@Dave Doyle: yes…the ‘excuse’ is the reality. If defaulters are let away with not paying then watch how people behave who have payed their mortgages. I for one will be getting a new car, the most expensive Sky package every month. I will also take up skiing, maybe go part time at work. Then I won’t be able to pay the mortgage either and will get a write down on my debt of maybe 95%. Pay the final 5% in low instalments over 30 years. Meanwhile the banks will get an even bigger bad debt problem and have to get bailed out by the taxpayer or go bankrupt and give the country a non functioning banking system and let the whole economy collapse.
Anything with the word Vulture in it, is never going to be in the interest of anything but itself. The term “Vulture Fund” is thrown around so frivolously that its meaning is almost forgotten.
If the government owns 51% of anything, they should have the final say, and banks shouldn’t really be profiteering from taxpayers that bailed them out in the first place.
Some Government!! Pretending to be concerned about vulture funds and repossessions whilst at the same time giving them charity status for taxation purposes and engineering things such that heaps of Ireland assets and wealth are transferred from ordinary people to the 1%. This charade is a disgrace and anyone who votes for FF or FG needs their head examined. Traitors the lot of them. They have systematically destroyed this country.
@Ian Oh: Noonan used to be out for lunch and dinner with these same vultures while the tendering process was underway.
Now Harris standing there with his sad puppy dog look pretending to care. Sod off you fraud. It’s time for action and not words. Why not offer the homeowners if they are interested in the same deal the vultures are getting?
Banks dont do honesty either.
@Peter Coen: Perhaps then the Minister for Health could legislate, put his pen where his mouth is so to speak, and have the HSE show some humility and accountability for their mistakes and errors. There’s certainly enough of them stacking up.
The government is scared. Scared on two fronts. The fallout re the homeless problem, unaffordable housing, unaffordable rents and now the willingness to throw 20,000 people/families to the vultures. The other side is that to sustain the rotten corrupt banking system they have to throw them to the vultures. Even their partners in coalition FF are feeling the heat and are pretending to do something simply to cover their arses.
The government has been walked into this by their neoliberal dogma. Their unwillingness to properly and strictly regulate the banks. Their pandering to the banks at every turn. They know the house of cards the banks are built on, they know the dependence on vulture funds to sustain the banking system could collapse if the government is seen to be willing to protect mortgage holders. No easy pickings for vultures and they’re off, gone, and the banks come tumbling down once more. And this time they won’t be able to load the debt on the backs of ordinary people.
@Dave Doyle: you had me at neoliberal
@Mary Murphy: I don’t care. I wouldn’t have you anywhere.
@Dave Doyle: Well said, Dave.And you’re spot on. About the neo-liberal agenda at play AND about “Mary”.
@Dave Doyle:
The bank needs rid of these loans and repossessions are inevitable. We have nearly full employment there is no excuse for not paying something towards the mortgage. If they have not made a deal with you at this stage you are either a chancer or a basket case that should never have been given a loan in the first place. Now the vulture fund is going to hound those people and repossess their homes and thats the only reason the politicians are nervous. The banks should never have given many of those loans in the first place and thats their fault but people have to face up to their financial mistakes too.
I’d say time is up and not time for humility! Enough of the peacock posturing and get your finger out and take action.
It’s past time for mm to pull the plug..
The politicians virtually control the banks but they never do the right thing themselves, just making it more like he’s shifting the blame to the banks instead of gov taking control of the situation.
The government want to FATTEN up the banks so they can SELL them like they have sold everything else at the expense of the Irish people. It is time to get rid of a government that is selling the country to foreigners
@MichaelandMary O’Grady: when they do sell them…who gets the profit….hmmmmm the taxpayer. So it makes sense to have the banks looking as good as possible so we the taxpayers get the best price
Humility from a banker? Lol
Disgusting that arrangements may not be offered
But… but… what about the “moral hazard”?? I mean, what’ll stop *everyone* from defaulting on their mortgages??
This is the sort of crap i see a lot of these days. I mean, where was the “moral hazard” when the banks were bailed out.
Very very few people would start to default on their mortgages, put their family home at risk, endure the stress of dealing with the banks (who by the way, know what your income is & would easily be able to spot a defrauder) … who would go through with that as a strategy to try get a positive outcome for themselves? Not many. Not many at all.
Not fair to blame the government for this….The instruction to reduce the toxic loans and improve balance sheet came from the ECB…Our central bank is just a messenger boy for the ECB….The decision to sell the toxic loans to a vulture fund was the PTSB’s not the ECB’s however….
@John003: yes that’s correct the ECB is dictating capital ratios to deliver a stable banking system and ensure that the banks don’t get hit in a liquidity crisis that ultimately caused the last crash. Or would you prefer our banks had low capital ratios?
@John003: How come the government are always prepared to follow directives from the EU, be it the commission or the ECB when it negatively effects the pockets, or lives of ordinary people. Yet when it may effect the corporate deals done or the way tenders are contracted out they simply ignore them.
Blaming the institutions of the EU for decisions taken is just an excuse. People have long ago copped on to this.
@Dave Doyle: It is part of the fiscal compact we signed up to….ECB is independent from all the EU governments and banks must obey it….
@Mary Murphy: Well the ECB could use some of the billions of Euros they printed over the past few years to give some debt forgiveness to the toxic loans….We have done everything the ECB have asked us to do since 2008….
@Mary Murphy: Just like they did leading up to the last crash of 2008?? The ECB doesn’t give 2 hoots about stability whilst ever they have countries like Ireland where the Government is willing to take unsecured bond holder debt and impose it on its citizesns. If you want to see how great the ECB has been for Ireland, look up how our debt burden has increased since 1998, especially our external debt as a % of ECB. It’s absolutely crazy and nobody even talks about it in the mainstream media. But that would be uncomfortable reading, I guess. We cant have that when the mantra from socks is that the country is going great. Its great alright if debt, homelessness, repossessions, atrocious health service, gridlock of motor route infrastructure, poor public transport, overpriced houses, stoneage broadband and being taxed up to the gills is what you enjoy.
@Ian Oh: …….as a % of GDP…..
@John003: and if they give us debt forgiveness what about Spain, Greece, Portugal…should they get it also? Who will pay for that…the Irish taxpayer?
@Ian Oh: So what you are saying is that we should have the same capital ratios that existed before the crash and the ECB should cease all steps to prevent a crash again? They should also lighten regulation and not monitor the banks?
@John003: ah yes instructions from the corporate tax evasion enabler and blackmailer from Brussells , who will stop at nothing to get a federal Europe. He is unelected and cares nothing for the democratic rights of eu citizens.
AIB sold all their distressed house loans over a year ago and not a word in the Dail.This is just political strokes.
PTSB will sell their distressed loan book if they get a buyer.
@liam lally: think it was mentioned in Dail.
Maybe our leaders should actually do something about it rather than just complain about it.
How about a bit of humility for people on veratis patches
Treat the people the way you treated the banks ..
9.4bn was given by Europe To Help distressed home owners, where the hell has it gone???
@Linda Keneally: A good question. One i have often though about. But you’ll get no answers. The question is ignored, rubbished, forgotten, buried. Even the links you could find to it years ago have disappeared. Noonan most certainly wouldn’t have allowed it happen such was his hate for ordinary people. Noonan instead created NAMA as bait to lure the vultures in, then allowed them plunder state assets for free ( no tax, charitable status).
But the money went somewhere. Someone, or some few, benefited from it.
The matter should never be let lie or be forgotten.
I think Harris meant to say it’s about time that we looked after our citizens. This is what we were elected to do.
Cant believe the behaviour from the banks?
And the tax payer bailed them out,?
Government needs balls.
It’s away past some humanity from Fine Gael who have protected Fraudulent Bankers at the expense of the ordinary people of Ireland
Balls of loot is all they are interested in
Can we see some humility from the health department?
If the bank sells the people there homes at the price they are selling to the vulture funds and write off the bad debt that the banks allowed people to draw down mortgages that they could never sustain in a false economy my house is worth 100 thousand less than what I paid for it I think there is a few ways out of this don’t sell people’s homes to vulture fund work with eatch mortgage see what there home can be sold for write off the difference as is the negative equity part give it 3 to 5 years and the banks will be profitable again most of these loans should never have been approved in the first place so in fairness to the Irish people we have stood by the banks and helped to pay back there debt but now the tables turn and how quickly the banks are happy to turn there backs on the familys of whom live in these home nobody is asking that we write off our hole dept we are asking that a fair solution for all is found for one the actual people who are having these difficulties if given the correct opertunity on a case by case basis and give people the opportunity to keep their homes the banks have written off enough bad dept for people who are millions in debt but its the struggling home owner that gets crucified we already have a serious homeless situation in Ireland and now you want to take these homes from people also if the banks help people the people will stand with the banks
When have banks shown any humility Simon? Is that the best you can offer. Fine Ga elite don’t care so long as their voters are kept in the style of they have become accustomed to. Not much hope of reforming the HSE.
hate to bring up old mud but what do you expect from the parties that lied about the retrospective bank deal they had secured on bank debt . its a fact that the irish people are paying multiples of 200 times what other eu states are paying for the banking crisis . historically to put the amount into perspective , Germany with a population of 61 million in 1918 were charged the equivalent amount per individual for war compensation .( that austerity and hardship led to WW2.).
DEBT PER CITIZEN NOW STANDS AT 43, 563 EURO AND YEARLY INTEREST ON DEBT IS 9,948,395,135 EUROS.
Meh.
You either pay your mortgage (and keep your home) or you dont.
Everything else is just background noise.
I wish you luck with that!
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