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MEDICAL CARD PATIENTS have said the HSE is refusing to reimburse them for blood tests taken at their GPs’ surgeries, despite a commitment given by the Minister for Health.
Earlier this week, TheJournal.ie reported that medical card patients are being charged for blood tests by their GPs, even though the HSE has stressed these tests are covered by the card.
Patients have reported being charged between €10 and €35 for routine tests and some who could not pay were told they would have to go to hospital to avoid a charge. Though GPs have maintained that their now 40-year-old contract with the HSE, which is curently being renegotiated, does not include the provision of blood tests for medical card patients, the HSE insists that it does.
Last month, Health minister Simon Harris said it is “a matter of concern” and that no user charges should apply to GP services provided to medical card patients.
Responding to a question from TD Brendan Ryan, Minister Simon Harris urged any patient who believes they have been incorrectly charge for routine blood tests by their GP to contact their local HSE health office.
He said the HSE’s primary care reimbursement service would arrange to refund the cost of the test and recoup the amount from the GP, if the local office determined the charge was inappropriate.
‘They did not help at all’
Age Action’s head of advocacy and communications Justin Moran said the charity shared TheJournal.ie’s article on its Facebook page earlier this week and has since received a number of responses from people who were claim they were denied a refund.
One man said he had bloods taken twice by his GP in Limerick and was charged €20 each time. He said he phoned his local health office and “was told no reimbursement”.
Another patient said her blood test was cancelled when she did not have money with her to pay her GP for the tests. She said she made an official complaint and was told that the “HSE will not reimburse any charges and although everyone knows [the] GP should not charge for blood tests, there is nothing HSE can do about it”.
“They did not help at all and we still are charged €20 every time,” she said.
Moran said Age Action Ireland has been attempting to clarify the situation with the HSE, but has so far received no response.
“For years medical card holders who were unfairly charged for blood tests by GPs could go to the HSE and put in a claim to be reimbursed. It was a cumbersome system, particularly for older people with mobility difficulties, but at least there was a way to get your money back,” he explained.
In recent days, since TheJournal.ie highlighted this story, we’ve had people contacting us saying they went to the HSE to get their refund and were refused. We’ve been trying to find out from the HSE what advice we should be giving medical card holders who are being charged for blood tests, but it’s just not clear whether they are still providing this service or when and why they might have stopped.
‘All proper and necessary treatment’
TheJournal.ie also contacted the HSE and the Department of Health to ask for a clarification on reimbursements.
The department said under the terms of the general medical services contract, GPs are required to provide eligible patients with ”all proper and necessary treatment of a kind usually undertaken by a general practitioner and not requiring special skill or experience of a degree or kind which general practitioners cannot reasonably be expected to possess.”
There is no provision under the GMS GP contract for persons who hold a medical card or GP visit card to be charged for routine phlebotomy services [blood tests] provided by their GP which are required to either assist in the diagnosis of illness or the treatment of a condition.
The HSE has advised GPs that where a blood test forms part of the investigation or necessary treatment of a patient’s symptoms or conditions, this should be free of charge for patients who hold a medical card or GP visit card.
“If a patient who holds a medical card or GP visit card believes he or she has been incorrectly charged for routine phlebotomy services by his or her GP, then that patient may take the matter up with their HSE Local Health Office, who will investigate the complaint,” the department said.
“If the local office determines that the charge was inappropriate, it will inform the HSE Primary Care Reimbursement Service who will arrange to refund the cost of the blood test to patient and recoup this amount from the GP. The local office will inform the GP of the decision to deduct the payment.”
The department did not address concerns about health centres refusing reimbursements.
The HSE had not responded to this website’s query by the time of publication.
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Doctors are paid 70 per annum for many a Gms patient. Are doctors expected to subsidise blood testing also? Fees have been cut 39% under fempe. Just because HSE says something doesn’t mean it is true. Mr Harris should sort this out via new contract where GPS are fairly paid. Fact that gp trainee schemes can’t be filled says it all. Only remaining functioning part of health is gp care. And it’s failing fast. We should all be very concerned.
And they say only the younger generation has a sense of entitlement. OAPs should have the cop on nothing is free in this world. Don’t be giving out you have to pay a charge for something. Same thing with people giving out they had to pay a 50 cent charge for prescriptions as if it was a barrier. People don’t know how good they have it.
@6ljJQRRU: The prescription charge is 2.50 now not 50c. You do understand OAPs are on a limited budget and some may need weekly blood tests for things like blood thinners ?, The newer anti coagulants are great and all but there are still elderly people needing levels checked weekly. So if you have to pay 20 to 35 quid per week that puts a strain on your Finances. At one point my father’s bloods levels were all over the place and he needed more than one test in the week. Getting to the hospital for those tests is often not an option. The truth is there is either free gp care with the medical card or there isn’t. The GPs seem to be making decisions around what they want to charge for and it varies from gp to gp. Yes they are on a fixed payment per person for medical cards but there are many patients they never see. When my daughter was a student she never saw her gp not once over those years. In fact the one time she got really ill she just went to one of the walk in clinics and paid the 30 to see the doctor as she could get an out if hours appointment. There is no reimbursement for blood tests and hadn’t been for years. There are GPs still out there who don’t charge for bloods too . They seem rare nowadays but they are out there.
@Catherine Sims: a friend of mine is a pharmacist she says the prescription charge has cut down massively on waste.
Numerous people losing inhalers which cost the state approx 70-80euro and then just getting another free one on the medical card.
The charge has cut down on this kind of behaviour massively. People just don’t appreciate what they get given for free.
They also forget that it’s other taxpayers (not the “government”) that are footing the bill – whilst also having to pay full price for their own medications.
@Theunpopularpopulist: Actually I gave friends who are pharmacists too and they tell a different story. They tell stories of people going without their medication and of chemists having to out the medication Flor free and let the patient pay another time. Also it’s not other tax payers. People like myself a d my father paid out taxes for many years. I got my first taxable job at 13. Yes it was a long long time ago but I paid proper tax and stamp and got my second at 16. My father was the same and worked all his life. So while our taxes paid for the GPs educations in Universities and schools and their healthcare and roads and public services and yours too it’s time for you and gps to do the same for OAPs or carers or the disabled. Get off your smug high horse and remember who paid for your services and childrens allowances and everything else when you were a kid.
@Catherine Sims: So you can start getting over yourself now sweety anytime you like
@Catherine Sims: Now I have to get back to work. To my 24/7 job !!
@Catherine Sims: Don’t pay any attention to him, he’s a FG fanboy who thinks Leo is wonderful and FG are beyond criticism.
Well done to the journal for as usuals censoring any non left wing comments.
Apparently it’s inappropriate to state that taxpayers pay for medical cards but it’s ok to comment on the funding for doctors education.
Double standards.
If you need a blood test the doctor gives you the option of going to the hospital to get it done for free, yes you may have to book it and can take up to 2 weeks to get app but that is life.
If you want it straight away in the doctors, you pay!
@Blah blah: You can walk in to Blachardstown hospital without an appointment, just hand them the doctors letter.
@Stephen Winterson: because the whole of Ireland had access to blanchardstown .
@Stephen Winterson: I live over 100 kms from the hospital I attend. Yes I can just walk in to the hospital and have my bloods done but I will need to get up at 5.30am to walk to the train station, get a train then a LUAS and then a bus to sit for anything up to an hour only to repeat the journey. It would take a total of 8 hours out of my day for something that would take 5 minutes at my local GP. I have a lifelong disease and require regular blood testing and thankfully my GP is very accommodating and doesn’t charge medical card holders.
@Stephen Winterson: the mater hospital can take up to 2 months to get a blood test done. So it’s not as simple as just walking into a hospital with the letter from your gp. Wish 2 weeks is all I had to wait.
Oh God. Medical card patients moaning again. I had a patient once who went ballistic over a 10 euro fee for a blood test he insisted on…wasn’t actually indicated. Then advised him that as he presented in late afternoon he’d have to drop the blood to the hospital lab (100m from his house) as he’d missed the courier. He refused. On long term jobseekers and smoked 20 a day. The sense of entitlement was incredible. 10 euro is not a lot of money. It’s free if you go to the hospital so if you want the convenience of GP doing it then fork out. Bloods take 5 mins to do when you get equipment sorted, find the vein, label the bottles and sort the forms. That’s 30% of a GP visit time on average. So for every 3 patients a day getting bloods 1 doesn’t get a appointment.
@Sinead Mooney: well said Sinead, as one of the few people who actually pay for my medical service. I couldn’t agree more.
@lochinvar56: Oh she is a doctor alright with no concept of living on a pittance. People Ike carers work very hard for benefits and OAPs worked all their lives paying for the education she got to become a gp
@Catherine Sims: you should become a doctor since it’s so easy. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
@Theunpopularpopulist: Oh I have every idea and just because you don’t like the truth it won’t make it go away
@Theunpopularpopulist: You are Sinead are you ???Definetly a doctor but not brave enough to use your name. Just another anonymous troll
@Catherine Sims: no I’m not a doctor but I work hard and hate people to be so demeaning to a profession which is under severe pressure and which takes both intelligence and incredible hard work to qualify.
I have siblings who are doctors and they are in the states and with people like you as patients no wonder they are.
@Catherine Sims: I paid 64k in fees to become a doctor thanks
@Sinead Mooney:
People on “Social Welfare” are not on sallery try living on a meansted payment and still pay the same fee’s as some one employed,,,further people arnt on “Social Welfare” for the sake of it.
Big to talk big when stamping your fat sallery into your tax avoidance account.
My local GP charges 5euro for blood tests, I always figured it covers the postage of them 9r something. It’s not an unreasonable charge.. But if they are supposed to be included then that’s bang out of order.
Those charging 35 are plainly ripping people off and making a tidy profit while doing so
@Barry Somers: I get charged €20 down here in the docs in Wexford and I’ve to get bloods done every 3 months but as someone commented on a similar post here the other day there is no cost to the GP for people getting bloods done the lab does not charge them nor us so the GP pockets the money.
@Tom Harpur: there clearly is a cost though tbf mo chara! there’s a time cost and then there’s the data storage for the results, and then she has to interpret the results and act upon them.
@Tom Harpur: do you think your blood magically arrives at the lab carried by the blood fairy and back again?
Its a refrigerated unit in a couriers van and it costs the GP to hire said courier.
So go to the hospital and get a free blood test there. Your blood is going to end up there anyway. My GP hasn’t taken blood in years, I just go to the hospital.
@Emachine: Yep, me too. Lazy people want everything to be free free free.
@Stephen Winterson: All those lazy, chronically ill and elderly always wanting something for nothing! Leo’s luvvies are an the ball early today.
This is a remarkably socially regressive campaign for Age Action to embark upon. At a time when socially isolated, mulitmorbid complex care patients lack safe, early access to medical care, complaining about a nominal charge for blood testing seems a bit anomalous.
@Dave: They do this because their members have complex medical needs and may need weekly blood tests . Or even more frequently than that. Their members being elderly often gave conditions that mean they aren’t very mobile and the GPs is their only option as getting to a hospital is not possible. The problem arises when the elderly person foregoes these vital blood tests because they can’t afford to pay up to 35 euro per yes. This of course can have serious implications for their health . It’s a false economy for the HSE as then these people end up in hospital to try repair the damage done. Costing the HSE more in the long run
@Catherine Sims: Well i suppose then the onus is upon the hse, rather than the GPs to provide appropriate access to care? Targetting private businesses as opposed to the state seems an odd one to me.
the thing is, if someone is getting weekly blood tests, +review of results, +action upon same + 24/7/365 medical care, I don’t think any private business could provide that kind of service for 300e pa pre tax!
@Dave: The private business has a contract already to provide the service though. That’s why they are targeted .
@Catherine Sims: their contract was massively cut under FEMPI. They had no choice in that.
Would you prefer that all gp’s refused to treat medical card patients under the current system?
A chronic shortage of GPs is on the horizon and your attitude and lack of any kind of thanks is just one of the many reasons they are leaving this country en masse.
@Theunpopularpopulist: My attitude ?,Listen sweety. I worked damn hard and paid all my taxes in this country all my life. I paid for my safety net when times changed for me. Even now as a carer I save the state several thousands e very year and have done that on the double when I cared for two people. Yet I get little back for the investment I made in the state. I work 24/7 for my benefits . Il have a medical card . The last time I saw my gp was 18 months ago and before that it was years . My father uses his GPs more but he too Work all His Life . We paid the Taxes that educated These GPs who are leaving the country and who are not repaying the investment the state made in them via our taxes.
@Catherine Sims: i’m not sure that that is the case tbh
@Theunpopularpopulist: GPs are always damn anxious to get on the panel and have medical card payments. There’s a list with GPs waiting to get on it.
@Catherine Sims:
Did you pay for your education in primary and secondary school and university?
Or did other taxpayers?
@Theunpopularpopulist: Taxpayers, taxpayers taxpayers, that’s all you can bleat about. Yet you’ve no problem as a taxpayer paying to the cabinet’s annual junket, IW, the banks bill, developers bill, corporate welfare for vultures, HAP, turas nua, seetec, hockey pitches, golf clubs, etc. But dare anyone who questions the cost of health care under the supposed public health service and you have a hissy fit.
@Dave Doyle:
Can you please back up your outrageous statement with facts?
Where have I stated I am ok with all the above you have mentioned?
This article is about health care, therefore I have stuck to the point something t seems you have difficulty doing
@Catherine Sims: While that was certainly the case a decade ago pre FEMPI cuts, there is no truth in your comment in the last few years. There is no waiting list of GPs for GMS panels, in fact many lists are going unfilled as they are financially unviable. The workload that comes with a GMS list is often too great for a single GP, and since the FEMPI cuts many practices are not generating enough profit to be able to hire a salaried ‘assistant’ to make the practice workable.
@Catherine Sims: no there isn’t
there was an article in the indo that the hse were looking for 23 doctors last week.
there have been practices closed around the country because they can’t get doctors to take on lists.
you’re very mistaken here
@Theunpopularpopulist: Reading your comments it would seem to be all about taxpayers.
@Dave Doyle: still waiting for those facts?
It is amazing how OAP’s are attacked again and again as if they have not paid tax all their lives in most cases, an also paid youth employment levies for the people who are now complaining. Not to mention that more people than OAP’s have medical cards because their income is very low. But obviously the people abusing medical card patients wouldn’t know what it means not to be able to pay for blood tests. I love the comment about a doctors practice being a private business, and that is the hub of the matter in Ireland in particular as health costs are far greater than in Europe in general. for thirty years now children in schools have been taught to be individualistic and are the me, me, me generations so why look after anyone else if I am alright Jack. The word sense of entitlement is a right-wing term to undermine social cohesion and against a caring society with responsibility and to each other. I love the examples of a few people abusing the system as justification for opposing it as happens in all walks of life. If the banks, international companies, and national companies paid proper taxes, and the TD’s hadn’t their “advisers” usually family members and cronies being paid huge sums of mone , not to mention accountants and financial advisers, and the solicitors and barristers raking it in then there would be enough for a decent health system
People are perfectly willing to drop 30E on an appointment to a hairdresser but 10 quid to get your bloods checked is a step too far
it is a contentious issue. Age Action and very sick individuals, who have basic pensions and nothing else, every little bit counts. its important these people with chronic diseases should not be impacted in having bloods done. Taking blood does not take up a whole lot of time, its over in seconds. the payment for courier is possibly one a day. there are people who could pay i am sure. i definitely know with a zero bank balance and a non-existent public health service, i struggle for basic daily essentials, the payment is a whack out of my pension, i am in fear all the time. a journey of twenty miles to the hospital is far too great. the problem is, we once did this willingly and thought of ourselves as a community, we considered people who were poor, now the poor are really scavengers, but the idea we are all trying to great freebies, is the ‘new age of money over humanity’ in my view. to witch out those who are sick, who have extra fees, maybe a bit demanding or those who are in great need is a terrible endictment. why not even say well – i for one do not mind, if they are unwell they should get it. why do we not have that attitude rather that blitzing resentment on poorer people who should be equal in health and are absolutely not equal.
Can you FFS stop showing photos of people with needles hanging out of their arms. I have a serious phobia. I nearly dropped my phone!
@Sean Murnin: Oh man up
Ive been fighting this campaign for every one,,,yet no one has stepped up to the plate to take responsibility the “HSE” will run you around in sircles because there a sircus of utter clownes,,,i spoke with many high ranking officials in local government whom say much the same in this article,,,im owed nearly €1,350 in fees and rising.
If you want to make an official complaint send your email to,,,,,,members@oiroctouse.ie this is the official mailing site for all members please if you have problems contact me at.
It is illegal to charge for such services.
What you further can doo,,,bring a case against the state and “HSE” further you can sue your local “GP” for breach of HSE Contract.
@Michael Donovan:
Contact your local “TD” Goverment Minister” Oiractouse Member at.
members@oiroctouse.ie
Contact Mick Wallace, on his Webb Page,,,,go to Google type in contacting “Mick Wallace’
What can i do?
Sue your “GP” Sue the state”Sue the “HSE” the charge is illegal and is another back door Austerity realing in Taxes for the state.
have your say