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SENATOR MARIE-LOUISE O’Donnell has been criticised for saying that young people should “stay away from politics” after the Seanad voted against reducing the voting age at local and European elections to 16.
Sinn Féin Senator Fintan Warfield reintroduced the bill to the committee stage of the Seanad yesterday evening. The bill was first debated in the Seanad in March 2017.
The bill was seconded by Independent Senator Lynn Ruane.
Speaking in the Seanad during the debate, O’Donnell was heavily critical of the bill, outlining that she is “absolutely against it”.
“I want to tell you my opinion, it is a resounding and echoing no. No to the vote at 16, no to the vote at 17, it’s fine at 18,” O’Donnell said.
“Four years ago, some of you were 12. Five years ago, some of you were 12. I’m against it, absolutely against it. I think that it’s fine at 18,” she said.
We’re also not a Students’ Union, we don’t think like a Students’ Union. We are the upper legislative house of the Oireachtas and we have to think totally in the common good and not as a Students’ Union.
O’Donnell went on to suggest that young people should “stay away from politics”.
I would suggest that you get on with your creative and imaginative lives that I know you’re brilliant at. I would suggest that you continue to get on with your education, arts, travel, romance, music, expression and sport.
Hitting back at O’Donnell, Ruane said that such comments are “such a negative, negative message to send to young people”.
“I think it comes from a position where politics maybe doesn’t affect your life very much, but when you come from a background like mine where political decisions that you don’t have access to literally shape your environment without you being able to contribute to it, politics is very, very important. I learnt that at a very young age,” Ruane said.
If you do have the ability to just focus on your hobbies or just focus on your education, well then politics seems like some sort of luxury.
“But for people who are outside the loop of politics, that are outside the loop of access to some of those things, politics is what will decide their faith forever more.”
Blocking of bill
The Seanad voted against reducing the voting age at local and European elections to 16 yesterday.
Green Party spokesperson for Equality Una Power said the blocking of the bill was a “betrayal of young people”.
“A year ago, we were told that this bill was being deferred to allow for more work to be done on it. Yet today is evidence that this was simply a delaying tactic by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, despite their promises to the contrary, to deny young people the chance to have their voices heard,” Power said.
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The big 2 parties have an ingrained fear of young people being more active in politics. Besides the fact that younger people tend to be more liberal minded, FF and FG rely on a lot of the grey vote casting their ballot based on their parents/grandparents legacy support from the civil war era.
@The Risen:
And you don’t think a 16 year old would be influenced by their parents? I think there is more chance of an 18 year old showing independent voting choice than a 16 year old which would mean it would be in the interest of FG & FF to reduce the age to 16
@Joe Phillips:
Thanks Joe. Does that mean you believe that 16 year olds will have independent thoughts on their voting and not be influenced by their parents?
@Joe Phillips: ‘@Nick Allen: That’s the greatest load of absolute sh!te I’ve read from you today’
…..so far.
Trust me Joe, he’s only warming up.
@Nick Allen:
That’s total BS.
@The Risen:
Anything but address the points made. You are consistent
@The Risen: “YOUNG PEOPLE” meaning 16 year olds typically live with their parents and do not operate in the same world as me and you. They don’t work pay taxes or bills so why on earth should they have any mention in how the country is run ? They barely qualify to operate a scooter so sssshhhhhh !
@Alfred Pennyworth: most 18 year olds still live with their parents. A lot of 25 year old still do. A fair few 30 year olds still do.
Do you wanna take all their voting rights away too?
@The Risen:
“No to the vote at 16, No to the vote at 17″.
Why did ML O Donnell stop there? The Seanad she is elected/appointed to has a policy of “No to the vote unless you are a University graduate” thus excluding half the adult population of electing our Upper House
#Votail100 #NewPolitics
@Nick Allen: I don’t believe most 20-80 year olds have independent thoughts on voting. Not sure where you think you’re going with that one.
@Alfred Pennyworth: “They don’t work or pay taxes or bills why on earth should they have any mention” so were in the constitution dose it say taxpaying voters only, is ther a bracket?
Maybe if it was lowered to 16 then it would become part of discussion in schools, & lead to more social engagement, & interest in politics going forward. All the students would be in it together, & maybe this would help foster an interest This country could do with that.
Used to think it was a terrible idea, but if you look at it that way, I actually think it could have benefits.
@Ann Experiment:
That’s a valid point but they do discuss politics in school these days, it is also a new subject on the leaving cert from this year. My own opinion is that 16 is just too young.
@Nick Allen: why is it too young? That’s not a full opinion. It’s half an opinion.
@Joe Phillips:
Unlike your quality opinions on here.
I think at that age children haven’t developed critical thinking skills and do not realise the impact of all aspects of what a party is saying. To vote at the age of 16 means that your opinion would have to be informed before that while they were 14 and 15. I don’t believe a child has the maturity at that age
@Ann Experiment: and they could easily be influenced by their teachers preference! Teenagers are impressionable voting age should remain the same!
@Nick Allen: I don’t believe you should have any right to make that call about people you don’t know. I think people are more than sufficiently aware of their surroundings by 16 and should absolutely have a say as to whether the system is working for them.
@Joe Phillips: do you think 16 year olds are adult enough to make their own decisions?
@Paddy: I know some that absolutely are, yes. I also know plenty of 18+ year olds that aren’t.
The bottom line is our health and housing systems are very, very broken and they were broken by middle-aged people in suits.
They’re the worst they’ve ever been.
I think it would make more sense now to apply an UPPER age restriction.
Not really, because that’s not fair, obviously, but neither is telling 16yr olds that the rest of the country chose FFG on their behalf and then expecting them to have any respect for us.
@Joe Phillips: It’s too young to sign a legal contract, buy tobacco or alcohol or get a driving licence….all for a reason
@marg fitzgerald: old enough to pay taxes tho, marg? How do ya reconcile that?
“Give us your money. No, not your opinions. We’ll make the rules and install the rulers. Just give us your money”
@Joe Phillips
You’d be happy to reduce the age one can vote to 16 and collectively make decisions that affect everyone so you should be in favour of all of these….
you’d be happy to reduce the legal age of consent to 16!
You’d be happy to reduce the legal age one can drive a car to 16!
You’d be happy to reduce the legal age one can consume alcohol to 16!
You’d be happy to cut child care supplements at the age of 16!
You’d be happy to send a 16 year old juvenile to an adult prison!
After all these young adults can make decisions that affect them and others.
@Joe Phillips: hmm ‘whether the system is working for them’ ? You really think that would be the outcome ?? Jaysus I am not sure if you have taken a look around ireland but you will only be adding thousands more people to tick ‘the system isn’t working for me box’ – wherever that is ?? I am all for ‘more empowerment’ for young people and we have come a long way from school leavers finishing education at 16- as a coutry we could look at the way we teach irish language ( 18 years compulsory teaching and I still cant hold a conversation ) religion ?? , physical education ?? , apprenticeships ?? theres tons of areas worthy of looking to change and improve for our young people imo.
@Paddy: feck it… I’ll bite for the craic
The legal age of consent is currently 17 so I don’t think that’s as dramatic as you’re making out.
The legal age to drive was originally 17 before being raised fairly recently. It’s 16 in America and I don’t really think that’s the biggest of their problems.
I’m sure I wasn’t the only one in Ireland who was drinking by 16. It probably would’ve been safer to allow me to do it legally than to send me knacker drinkin’ in the woods with naggins of vodka but whatever makes you feel better.
Absolutely happy to cut the childcare supplements at 16. They’re old enough to work, ffs.
To be continued…
Never happy to send anyone to prison but if a 16/17 year old commits a violent crime, yes, I think they should be treated the same as an 18 year old.
Anything else?
agreed. since politics isn’t thought much in schools, the only time young people get political is for referendums. I know many young people who only cared about gay marriage, legalizing weed, abortion and prostitution
@Nick Allen: Most 16 year olds are good at sussing out liars.
Ah, I see that Sinn Féin are trying to ingratiate themselves with the young, probably because their minds are still developing and they feel they can easily influence/manipulate them.
@Johnny Bellew: yeah cos looked at the fully developed geniuses currently running this place like a well-oiled machine. Right wing parties are terrified of youth. Bring it on
@Joe Phillips: *look
@Johnny Bellew: “they can easily influence/manipulate them.”
This from a Catholic defender LMFAO :-)
@Joe Phillips:
I see you have been on the same training course as TheRisen. Lots of deflection, lots of accusation and zero substance and zero ability to actually debate.
@Nick Allen: what?? Did you read the comment I replied to? Have you been up all night on this thing and kinda lost track of things a bit now?
ye using using government funds for their strategic propaganda unit, oh wait…..
@Johnny Bellew: like Bill Kenneally was with fianna fail? #paedo
16 is the legal working age in Ireland. If we are saying that you can work and pay tax at that age then being allowed to vote should be an entitlement.
I’d rather have 16 year-olds voting than the hundreds of thousands of geriatrics still giving the Catholic apologist party, Fianna Fail, their votes.
Why are people afraid of young people voting on their future??. 16/17 year olds have the biggest stake in our future.
@Jonathan Gaffey:
Would 10 and 12 year olds not have a bigger stake?
@Nick Allen: have you ever met any young people?
Would you know the difference between a 16/17yr and a 10-12yr old if ya saw them? Just wonderin’ like. Comparing the two groups is idiotic.
@Joe Phillips:
It must have struck a nerve when I said that I am anti SF. Rather than playing the player trying playing the ball, it’s more effective!
The comment I made is highlighting that 16 year old’s do not have the biggest stake in the future as the previous commenter suggested. It also highlighted that age does matter and it would be completely ridiculous to have a 10 year voting. The debate here is about allowing 16 year olds vote and as I said, in my opinion it is too young. I have also explained my reasoning.
All you appear to be able to do is argue that my comments do not make sense and you aren’t even doing a good job at that. Why don’t you try arguing what you disagree with me rather than just saying my comment is stupid?
@Jonathan Gaffey: I believe I can say without fear of contradiction that the majority of 16 year olds would barely know their a*** from their elbows.
@Nick Allen: your politics have always been apparent on here. You’ve never struck a nerve with me so don’t be worrying.
My point is there is little difference between 16 and 18 year old minds, other than one is aware they’ve crossed a threshold to legally vote and drink and the other is aware that they haven’t. I think bringing 10-12 year olds into it shows you to be extremely disrespectful towards a lot of intelligent young minds and I think you have far too much of a platform on here, with the amount of time you devote to these forums.
Basically, I think you’re part of the old team of dinosaurs that we desperately need to get away from.
@Joe Phillips: difference between a 16 year old and a 12 year old is that a 16 year old can work full time and pay taxes. So they should have a say in how they are used.
@Ben Slimm: Well said, Ben
I personally don’t think the vast majority of sixteen year olds have the maturity to vote or to fully comprehend it. At 16 life is about selfies and snapchat and going to teenage discos it’s not about trying to understand an election.
@Tom Harpur: __ I can think of quite a few adults who don’t understand elections, yet vote in them because they’ve been pre-programmed to do so.
It’s a bit rich for someone, sitting in an anti democratic institution like the senate’ to say they are in favour of people voting when they themselves are not subject to those votes.
Times catching up with corruption in politics. 2 years from now will see seismic changes in the Dail… FF FG and Liebour will not see that magic 100 year rule ;-)
@Willy Malone: O really. So who will be in government after the next election.
@doorhandler:
There must be a new party going to be announced that none of us know about.
@Nick Allen: I would like to invite you all to the pants party.
@Willy Malone: If everyone voted for anyone but FF/FG. and see will the world end.
Absolutely right about that. young people of 16 don’t know enough about politics and that’s what SF and other liberal left wing parties like. Much easier to indoctrinate youngsters and pull the wool over their eyes. The politics of objection and perception appeals to people who are politically ignorant and are used all the time by left wing parties. They need people
@Sighle A. Ni Chuana:
Nicely put
@Sighle A. Ni Chuana: In other words it’s all about FEAR. Fear that those 16yr olds who are full of ideals can see reality for what it is might upset the status quo.
It suits the establishment to wait until the ideals are diluted and polluted.
@Sighle A. Ni Chuana: oh and your in depth knowledge of economics lead you to vote finagael did it?
@Sighle A. Ni Chuana: “Much easier to indoctrinate youngsters and pull the wool over their eyes. ”
Said the devout Catholic.
You don’t do irony do you Sighle?
@Sighle A. Ni Chuana: SF is not a liberal left-wing party
@Sighle A. Ni Chuana: haha, right wing don’t need young idiots, right wingers are idiots for life. Bang on baby
@Dave Doyle: I’d say more about manipulation and spin than fear. Seasoned politicians know how to manipulate and use situations that appeal to voters because it will be something that affects their lives but they won’t have a hope of getting it done because they are not usually in power and if they ever get into Government, it will be with people they can manipulate and use such as 16 year old youngsters.
@Jem Hughes: Actually I studied Politics and economics but I worked in the area of both for some years. I don’t vote FG.
@Jem Hughes: not quite sure what you are actually saying here. I don’t often bring my own personal beliefs into debates.
Two sides to this argument. Some say that 16 and 17 year olds should be allowed to vote as they are mature enough. At the same time their parents are receiving Children’s Allowance for their 16 and 17 year old children. So they are still classified as children by one state department.
No I don’t think she right. Condensending yea. There’s no age limit on being a gobshit.
It’s just a pity Marie Louise O’Donnell didn’t stay away from politics. Another of Enda’s lackeys.
16 is too young. Nobody expects a 16 year old to be fully aware of whats going on politically, and at that age, you are much more vulnerable to propaganda.
The maturity levels and understanding of politics between a 16 and 18 year old are pretty much the same. I think however on important issues that will effect their future like abortion rights and other constitutional issues – I don’t see why the people who will have to live through the consequences or benefits of a vote wouldn’t have a say on it.
Imagine you’re a 16 year old girl and suddenly realised you were pregnant but had no voice in the referendum to decide whether or not you could have an abortion and ended up stuck at home taking care of a child you aren’t quite ready for and losing out on your education.
I think young people do have certain contributions to make in politics. I’m undecided but leaning towards allowing them to vote on referendums that will change our Constitution.
@Seán Ó Briain: Imagine you’re a 16 year old girl and suddenly realised you were asked to vote on something like the Lisbon Treaty, or Irexit.
@Do the Bort man: What of it??
@Seán Ó Briain: so they should be allowed shape the decisions, but not the group of decision-makers?
@Do the Bort man: Or a 16 year old boy
She is right. The last thing I was thinking about at even 20 was fecken politics.
@brendan H: I registered to vote as soon as I was able to
a vote at 16 would help see an end to parish pump politics and would only serve to create a more harmonious society where young people will be given an actual chance to effect change, those who are opposed know that their party is irrelevant to young people, let the young people have their say. The electorate has screwed them for long enough, also there has to be some form of irony in O’Donnell telling young people to change out of democracy when she wasn’t even elected to the position that she is currently in..
@John Madden: I wish I could give you several thumbs up
Good old shinners and their famous altruism. 18 is fine to start voting.
It is cruel to impose a responsibility to immerse themselves in life’s grim realities and understanding the complexities of national policymaking on 16 year olds.
Perhaps those recommending this are hoping that shallow populism is most effective on the minds of children in order to aid their party’s progress.
SF presumably believe that 16- and 17-year-olds may know no better than to vote for them.
@Brendan O’Brien: SF receive the most first preference votes of any party on this island. So good man for insulting such a large chunk of the population.
Such a big ol’ chip on that shoulder of yours.
@The Risen: FF and FG voters are a large chunk of the population (far larger than SF voters in this state) which you seem to have no problem with ‘insulting’.
@The Risen: In a 2 horse race against PBP? Quite the boast. You supporters cling to all manner of irrelevancies. Speaking of chips on shoulders regarding large chunks of the population, didn’t you disparage the “grey vote” who you maintained only voted in line with their parents/ grandparents? You really should think these things through before finger wagging at others.
@Honeybadger197: Extremists like ‘The Risen’ never think things through. If they did, they wouldn’t be extremists. They operate on gut feelings and prejudices.
@Brendan O’Brien: He’s a belieber alright!
Yes, young people who can see the complete f ups, bribery, backhandedness and downright corruption should not be allowed ruin the status quo.
We need forward thinking youth to stop these leeches and parasites from destroying this country even further.
I believe she should find the nearest tree and apologise profusely for wasting its oxygen.
MORON.
In other words, we’re in charge, know your place.
@Kevin Geraghty: Pretty much what I’d tell my kids in most matters, yep!
I have hosted over the years foreign students aged 13-18 from Korea, Germany, France, spain, Italy and Austria. All, no exception, could confidently discuss the current politics of their countries. If you don’t engage with the youth, they grow up uninterested in politics, which is a common issue in Ireland.
On a more serious note. most 16 year olds are struggling with (in no particular order)exams, social media, rapidly changing hormonal development and boy/girlfriend issues etc. Adding a further responsibility on these young shoulders would amount to abuse of said teenagers. Let them have as trouble free teenage years as possible. This seems like a very cynical attempt by left wing agitators. No surprise there, they (the left) are past masters at social engineering attempts.
Free designer Fidget Spinners for every under 18 voter, and be entered in a draw to win the newest iPhone. They’d be the only age demographic with 100% turn out.
@Tommy Roche: I hope you’re joking…..
The only way that young people should not be allowed to vote if it over 70s are banned from voting. Otherwise the voting age should be once you can read and write.
Pity she didnt take her own advice.
I don’t believe in reducing the voting age to 16. It is certainly a time when you want to awaken an interest and knowledge of politics and the political system but I don’t believe a 16yr old has enough life and independent experience to make an informed choice
16 is too young for voting. However young people shouldn’t be banished from politics.
If you are of an age where you could pay tax why should you not have a voice in how your money is spent ?
@Anthony newey: You will when you’re 18, it’s only a short while until you’re 18. It feels like a lifetime at that age though. You COULD spend money on drink too, that’s nearly all tax, still doesn’t make me think to lower the age to drink.
@Gav Quinn: No taxation without representation or something like that rings a vague bell .
@Gav Quinn: No taxation without representation or something like that rings a vague bell .
@Anthony newey: Ok so give them a VAT card so they can scan it with every purchase…?
@Anthony newey: Yawn !!!!!!!
Here, here … who wants some kid who can’t clean their own nose, hasn’t worked a day, cannot support themselves and hasn’t even finished college casting a vote that could have serious repercussions for the populace. Raise the voting age and make it contingent upon experience, employment and maturity!
I personally don’t see the voting age at 18 as an issue. You can wait until you’re 18. I don’t agree that it needs to be lowered. This is actually a non-issue to me, just teenagers being impatient – that goes with the territory.
Another more pertinent question relating to this would be how many 16 year olds actually have an interest in politics or the constitution? How much do they actually know? and is it sufficient enough to justify lowering the voting age?
Wh
@Robbie Delaney: ah balls, my finger slipped. I’m not even going to write my original comment now. I’m just ashamed and embarrassed. I’m sorry.
@Robbie Delaney:
Ah go on, the suspense is killing
@Nick Allen: ah now I can’t remember. This day is going from bad to worse
@Nick Allen: yea, do tell,go on, go on,go on,go on, go onnnn!
They’d hardly manipulate the youth, now would they. Right, left, center, independent or not, 16 year olds can be manipulated by emotion alone. We think companies like CA are bad, they are the future of the corrupt capitalist world. We might as well get used to it.
Not to be a republican at 20 is proof of want of heart; to be one at 30 is proof of want of head.
I assume that all those who oppose lowering the voting age because 16/17 year olds “can’t make informed decisions” would also be in favour of revoking the voting rights of those below a certain intelligence threshold? Why should the future of a bright 16 year old be reliant on the voting whims of a moronic 40 year old?
Of course she would say that. Wasn’t she Endas little lickarse, part of the in crowd. They just don’t want the status quo to change. I’m alright Jack f##k you that’s her attitude. I’d bring the voting age down to 10 if it meant getting rid of the likes of her and her FG cronies.
Good move by SF. Young people are easier to manipulate and would swallow the SF ‘money for nothing’ line quicker than most adults.
35 yrs old – to be the new Vote Limit.
Voting age should be reduced to 35 yrs … to exclude the immature, irresponsible, uneducated who landed us in such a mess – the total crash of our economy in 2008.
What a cheek this Seanad person has to refuse 16 yr olds a Vote.
16 year olds barely know what day of the week it is and most have little interest in politics and rightly so. Let the young be young before they’re poisoned with major political decisions.
I see how you have put the name of the Sinn Fein Senator on the story headline instead of the Senator who made the comments. This is a cheap attempt to associate the SF Senators name with the comments. SHAME on you
@John Mark Creedon: It is not possible to heap any more shame on a gang that is already supersaturated with shame.
Howaya vs D4 showdown
Howaya 1 – D4 nuthin’
@Ooby Dooby: The ‘D4’ lass is from Mayo.
Mayo lass 1 Howaya angry lass 0
No problem with 16 years old voting for European elections, we pick a rubber stamp anyway.
They were old enough to take the Aeroplane /or Boat at the tender age of sixteen in years gone by
M/s.O’Donnell: no doubt was still sucking on the breast of the State at that age.
So you can have sex at 17, but not vote…?? This country is so backwards.
Let kids be kids there’s enough shit waiting for them,when the time comes
Children are not mature enough to vote. Plenty of children are in favour of aborting other children. Enough said!
Does she think being older gives people more insight less bias ? . We need young people’s voices and getting them engaged with politics at 16 yrs is forward thinking not backward .s
She wants the status quo to continue . Young people have imagination new ideas less constrained by life events or position in life it’s exactly why they’re voice is important .her ignorance and place of privilege is astoundingly obvious .not every 16 yr old travels or enjoys the life she describes in fact the majority don’t . Hearing her remarks shows us exactly why politics needs to change become inclusive not for the privilged few
Getting the ride, smoking, drinking, voting and joining the army.
Most of these thing can ruin your life, voting by contrast is safe and boring, the kind of thing a mature person does. How can the young people be expected to make good decisions and be responsible if they cannot cast a vote?
14 I say, with mandatory voting, financial penalty for failure to vote (say 20 quid for a young person and a weeks dole money for an adult) and automatic voter registration.
Can we all just take a minute to recognise the fact that there are men and women in this country with cognitive impairment and dementia voting.
Why? Because it is there right to do so and who are we to stop them exercising their rights?? Was the response I got when I questioned this.
Absolutely scandalous.
It all comes down to education. Whether they’re 16 or 26. In this country unless you educate yourself on the topic it’s always going to be an ignorant vote or a non vote.
Firstly, Give young people a chance to be interested! Educate them, put it on the curriculum, let them make informed decisions on their future – only then will this country see progress
Shut up O’Donnell, you’re Pathetic!!
If a 16 year old is allowed to vote then they will have to be treated as an adult by the Courts.
have your say