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FORMER FIANNA FÁIL government minister Pádraig Flynn used a corrupt payment of IRL£50,000 from a property developer for his own benefit, the Mahon Tribunal has found.
The inquiry’s final report states that senior Fianna Fáil figures including Bertie Ahern knew about the payment to Flynn in 1989 – but did not question him about it until after the establishment of the investigation in the late 1990s.
Flynn, who was Minister for the Environment at the time, “wrongly and corruptly” sought the payment from developer Tom Gilmartin then “proceeded to utilise the money for his personal benefit”, the Tribunal found.
A substantial portion of the money was reportedly used to buy a farm in Co Mayo in the name of Flynn’s wife.
When giving evidence to the Tribunal in 2008, Flynn denied that he personally benefited from the payment.
According to the final report, Gilmartin believed – and was told by Pádraig Flynn – that the payment was a donation to the Fianna Fáil party rather than to Flynn himself. The payment was made on the understanding that Flynn would “ease or remove obstacles” in the way of Gilmartin’s planned Quarryvale development.
The payment, and the fact that Flynn had not passed it on to the Fianna Fáil party, were known about by senior Fianna Fáil figures, the Tribunal found. Bertie Ahern was told of the payment by Gilmartin in 1989, while then-Taoiseach Albert Reynolds was informed in 1992.
Current Fianna Fáil TD and social protection spokesperson Seán Fleming – then the party’s financial controller – had examined the party’s official accounts and found no record of the donation from Gilmartin.
The report found it “noteworthy” that Ahern did not contact Flynn over the payment until 1998 or 1999, after the Tribunal had been set up and following “media speculation”. It stated:
When in October/November 1990 (and indeed in 1992) senior personnel within Fianna Fail had essentially the same information (effectively from ‘the horse’s mouth’) the matter was not raised with Mr Flynn at that time.
Flynn served as a European Commissioner representing Ireland until 1999.
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Good man Gerry. The only decent politician in this country!
Readers here might want to read an excellent report which shows just how irrelevant the ‘fiscal compact’ is to both the current (4yr & counting) Euro crisis & future prospects & stability for Euro member countries.
Whilst it ignores the important potential solutions that I consider MMT offers, it does offer a comprehensive analysis on two things:
1. Why the Eurozone crisis continues & the reasons for its flawed structure as the basis of that.
2. The mechanics of how a country might exit the Eurozone.
(Notably it does draw on the accounting identity of Sectoral balances which MMT uses.)
It is also available as a pdf download. Written deliberately in plain English for a lay audience. See here:
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/02/a-primer-on-the-euro-breakup-2/
I take it u are being sarcastic, Denis ? Haven’t thumbed u up or down so far.
ask angus to do another leaflet drop for ya gerry!!
In his Seat Inka van
While young Enda and Micheal Martin were working out how to maximize expenses, Gerry was sleeping in a different house every night. He has always stood up for our country and been wiling to pay the ultimate price to do so. With FF we just have to pay the price. €€
Was he on the run?
strange comment, i now of criminals that do that!
Wasn’t he a constant target of the security forces and the Loyalist Paramilitaries. When one considers the likes of Cowen and Kenny, where decades were spent sozzeled regularly in the Dáil bar. He at least put himself out there.
David Murphy. Either that or he is an incredible player.
Paddy, not sure of the people that stay in your house occasionally, so I can’t really comment.
Vim-to – Gerry Adams is no Irish hero. Where do we start ? How about the abduction, torture, murder & secret burial of the late Mrs Jean McConville ? He turns my stomach. It seems it will make no difference how we vote. The new rules will be passed through. We have to decide are we in Europe or out of it. I haven’t made up my mind on the referndum yet & will do so by voting day.
Lets compare like with like, shall we? Since Enda & Michael are out to rob everyone blind and good awl Gerry was apparently paying the ultimate price for standing up for our country, it should only be fair to point out that SF are very much on the gravy train and are milking us for whatever they can get. See below for a brief summary.
- Draw down a basic wage of €92,672.
- Drew down the leaders allowance of €893,432.
- Spent €496,928 in the 2011 Election, more than the 2007 election.In line with election rules, candidates are entitled to €8,700 in expense refunds
- Overall, in 2011, their TDs claimed on average €44,153 in expenses.
- Lets not forget the €50,000 one SF TD spent on ink cartridges over two years. We don’t know how much would have been spent on paper, as its not recorded, but your talking around 3million pages.
- As part of the Sinn Fein fundraising drive, they live it up spending a small fortune on fine dining and expensive hotels in America. This is according to documents filed with the US Department of Justice. The party finance directory stayed in a hotel with room rates from $686 to $1,424 (€526 to €1,090). Gerry dines in a restaurant with stakes costing €37 while staying in a hotel with room rates from $208 to $633 (€159 to €485). This is only a small chunk of what some of the Sinn Fein crew are spending abroad. Its not our money, of course, but he sure enjoys luxury while abroad for his party fundraiser despite claiming to be a party of the working class.
- In the North, SF MPs, despite being absent from the second house they claimed for, spent nearly £500,000 on parliamentary second-home expenses system. Gerry himself claimed £3,600 per month for a house despite being valued at £1,400 a month. The five MPs rented three London properties from the same family at over the top rates. Martin McGuinness also made the same claim as Gerry Adams.
Again, just a quick roundup of some of the more popular and recent spending by the hard working Sinn Fein party & Gerry Adams. Gravy train? Our Gerry? Oh very much so.
@ Kevin…I am assume you can provide such detailed figures for other parties too?
Michael; I sure can. There all at it. We have known that for a long time. My point here was simple. People claim that Sinn Fein are different. That they are working class. That they feel the pain the people are going through. They claim the “industrial wage” because its what they feel they should be paid, like their fellow voters should be paid. But its far from the truth. They are on the same gravy train, if not worse at times, as FG/FF/Lab etc. They are no different. They still milk the system for what they can get.
Just pointing out a few home truths. Thankfully not every TD, including those in SF, milk the system. But a lot of TDs from the parties (not just Sinn Fein, but I don’t think we have had a scandal like the 50k before?) are all at it. Sinn Fein are no different.
I am under no illusion that the other parties are any better Michael. But forgive me if I like to correct those who spread the bullshit from Sinn Fein.
Irish politicians need to shut up for a bit. The country is fucked and they’re more worried about get one over on a rival party than trying to fix all the mess. It’s almost embarrassing how these are the people we “trust” to “run” the country.
You might trust em, but I would never trust any politician, trouble is people have very short memories and them even shorter ones..
Gerry Adams for Taoiseach.
Austerity doesn’t work – except in the North :)
The North does not have full financial powers, no revenue powers. Probably how this state will be in a few more years.
I hope you’re ready to remind this FGer of this every day Vim_to. They like to pull this argument every time. It eases the guilt, embarrassment and shame they feel seeing as they have to run everything past EU. lol
It doesn’t matter to David, he’ll be off on the emigration boat in a few years anyway. Another victim of the gombeenarchy.
Did Enda clear that comment for publication
Bit harsh to suggest I’m not capable of getting a job…
I think he was suggesting that austerity won’t work and that consecutive Irish governments look to emigration as an answer to unemployment rather than your capabilities David.
Sinn Féin in the 6 counties have been actively trying to gain more control and fiscal power to implement the policies they know will lead to recovery, Fine Gael on the other hand has been actively surrendering power to France and Germany in order to enact policies that will lead to further austerity and bondholders getting paid.
David, correct me if i am wrong, but have you not put this Northern Austerity argument up multiple times, and multiple times you have been corrected on your incorrect belief that the parties in the North have any actual contorl of their fiscal matters? The Northern budget is set in Westminister,not in Belfast. What is the reason you keep putting up the argument, when you know it to be factually inaccurate. I am not calling you a slow-learner, but i have to ask the question, why are you not able to internalise the correction? Or are you like Mr Kenny, not interested in the truth, but only interested in trying to divide the people, in order to maximise your support???
The shinners are a small part of the reason we have Austerity in Ireland & N. Ireland. I’m sure if they stopped claiming the ridiculously high expenses, not just the 50k on ink, and took a wage cut (ya know, actually practicing what they preach) they would be more appreciated by the public and the state coffers. Leading by example? Not if your a Sinn Fein TD. They milk the system to the best of their ability and ride on the gravy train they moan about so much.
As for the North – Sinn Fein are implementing this austerity they campaign so much against. Here we have them voting against such budgets, completely against any form of austerity. Yet in the North they will happily implement it, regardless of who is telling them how? Hypocritical.
They are asking the Irish people to Vote “No”. Why do people listen to them? With every treaty they come out with the same tripe. Its voted in, years later none of their reasons for voting No ever came about. Wtf like? Do their party supporters not wonder why none of what they claimed in each and every No campaign they did actually materialized?
Sinn Fein are anti-Europe / anti-everything. Austerity has always worked and seems to be working now in the 21st century. You would swear the political elite as they are referred to were carrying out austerity for the first time ever.
David. I have no doubt that you are more than capable, it is a reflection on the job market for grads that I referenced.
Poor Kevin. Try reading the comments on your way down love before you make a silly comment.
Kevin €893,632 leaders allowance ? I presume that’s a typo. Also they drew down the TD’s salary but it is well documented that TD’s only take the average industrial wage from that and put the rest back into the party. Actually I’m not sure where you are going with your figures. You give figures for elections and expenses but fail to say why they are so wrong. Do you expect them to run for election for free or work from office’s for free? Apart from O’Snodaigh their expenses look on a par with other TD’s (FF claimed more on average) a and you don’t compare then with other party’s.
The hotel prices are another area to look at. You quote minimum and maximum prices but fail to show the actual rate paid for staying there. I’ve stayed in hotels that varied from €150 to € 4000 a night but you can be damn sure it was the €150 a night room that I stayed in. €37 for a steak is a bit much but did Gerry actually eat the steak or did you just pick the most expensive thing on the menu?
I have no love for the Shinner’s but your figures just don’t stand up to scrutiny at all. They are like something out of the Sun or the Sunday Times. If you are going to throw figures around then at least be able to back them up otherwise it is only used as ammo by the Shinner’s to say that they are being attacked without basis.
Opps sorry , that was for the next comment down that Kevin made about expenses but I’m sure he will get the message.
I think anyone voting Yes due to SF calling for a No vote isn’t a wise move on this referendum. This vote is more than politics and deserves serious debate and understanding.
Pity the Shinners don’t do just that
Stephen you made a comment on twitter that people should vote no because you should never trust Sinn Fein… coming from a Fianna Failer that charged that tax payer thousands for one website? Pot, Kettle, black
At Fiachra. It was 3250 to host a website, Dick Roche’s website. I believe Stephen is familiar with the man from his local FF org. Look at the site it is woeful. Give an IT student a hundred and he’ll do a better job and give him 60 euro to host it.
Stephen has been at the taxpayer teat a lot over the last regime’s history but shure didn’t he work awful hard for it.
I bet you 50 euro that he’ll be a member of FG before the next election.
the only politician with sense,
Gerry & the boys want me to vote no…thats made my.mind up..definate YES!
Colm,
Your Party leader paid himself 50,000 euro a year (unexpensed, and no tax) every year from the year 2002 onwards until he became Taoiseach. Did you vote “yes” on this also? Enda makes his jibes at Adams every time, Adams asks pertinent questions in the Dail, rather than answer the questions straight, Enda couldnt lie straight in bed. Did you vote for this Financial Terrorist? Do you support him paying himself 50k per year as leader of the opposition on top of his 100k per year slary, his minsiterial pension and on top of his expenses every year (Over 200k in total, every year for almost 10 years?). It is pretty obvious why Enda and Gilmore dont want to increase the Taxes on the welthiest people in the country, as they are part of that Elite. How can you trust anyone who does this? Seriously, i want to know what your answer is on this? Adams has pushed for curbing the Taoiseachs salary at 100k per year. Do you think this is unreasonable, considering that its Germany thats really leading our country today and not FG.
Colm,
Your Party leader paid himself 50,000 euro a year (unexpensed, and no tax) every year from the year 2002 onwards until he became Taoiseach. Did you vote “yes” on this also? Enda makes his jibes at Adams every time, Adams asks pertinent questions in the Dail, rather than answer the questions straight, Enda couldnt lie straight in bed. Did you vote for this Financial Terrorist? Do you support him paying himself 50k per year as leader of the opposition on top of his 100k per year slary, his minsiterial pension and on top of his expenses every year (Over 200k in total, every year for almost 10 years?). It is pretty obvious why Enda and Gilmore dont want to increase the Taxes on the welthiest people in the country, as they are part of that Elite. How can you trust anyone who does this? Seriously, i want to know what your answer is on this? Adams has pushed for curbing the Taoiseachs salary at 100k per year. Do you think this is unreasonable, considering that its Germany thats really leading our country today and not FG/Labour.
Cal
For the umpteenth time…I am.NOT a member or supporter of ANY political party so stop referring to me in those terms! The last time I had ANY links to ANY Irish political party was in 1992 thats 20 years ago! Stop presuming. I also vote (not that its any of a strangers business) across the spectrum on issues of the day
Colm, I apologize if i hit a sore point. But lets try and be constructive in our Analaysis. If you are voting Yes, because Gerry Adams supports a no-vote, then i really dont see your logic. Lets have the arguments supporting the Yes vote, other than a childish knee-kerk reaction to a Party that is anti-Austerity.
Id be more inclined to vote “Yes” because Gerry is asking us to vote “No”. Why? Because Sinn Fein is anti-europe and they have went against every European treaty. I don’t trust Gerry, considering his past, nor his party, considering their past. Its the past? Their present isn’t exactly shining itself in great light either.
They never offer anything useful, they just give out and moan. There not a constructive opposition party and I fear what would become of our country if they did indeed have control over it. We would be out of Europe anyway, that’s for sure. I don’t think that’s a good thing – aside from the current economic crisis and political unhappiness we have with Germany & France – we have benefited an awful lot from them over the years and I don’t believe Ireland would be the society that it is today without them. Transport, Roads, etc.
Aren’t you a bit of an eejit then. Gerry and the boys said that you shouldn’t stare at the sun. Roll on tomorrow, you’ll show them fenians eh!
@ Kevin…Use your own objective thinking and ignore what Sinn Fein has to say about it. Hopefully the people of Ireland are not as easily led as our out of touch leaders think we are…
Gotta love it, Gerry , with no hint of irony, wants to see more Gardai!
Notorious law-abider that he is these days…
Have to be honest, I don’t see this treaty having any effect on austerity coming down the line. Fine Gael/Labour are going to continue on their present course one way or the other. Also yes, the treaty imposes policies on a democratically elected government – thats what a treaty is! At least now we’ll be given the oppertunity to make our own minds up on the matter, which is better than any of us expected this time last week.
It will make it worse Graham, unfortunately.
And it will be our last opportunity to have a say on any matter that effects us if we vote yes to this. It has to be a no. Yes mistakes were made and we are paying the price but i dont think handing our country over will make things any better We fought for so long to get our freedom and now not even a hundred years later people are even considering given that away???? Goldmansachs and the rest of the financial pricks are laughing there way to the bank with there new portfolio of cheaply bought state assets! There plan is working lets stop it and say no! Am sure most other european citizens in greece etc would love to be able to say no to this we are fools if this is passed!!! Cue the red thumbs :)
This will impose further austerity because its forcing countries to have a structural deficit of no more than 0.5%. Now considering their is no policy for growth in the country the only way in which we can achieve such a target is trough further austerity, which will lead to less and less investment for growth. Plus this is not an E.U treaty its an intergovernmental treaty in which France and Germany are circumventing the not only other countries but the institutions of the E.U to facilitate their own agenda
Vote no no no no
No No No No NO.
There’s no limit.
Quiet apt for the treaty.
If Europe Acquires more powers then the whole of the EU should be voting.I simply don’t get it at times the EU goes on about how its a shining light of democracy when only one country(us) can have a vote on powers handed over to un-elected people?
I rather be in a country that has its own power no matter how rich or poor it is.
even if its a no vote we’ll be made vote again til its a yes.
its easy to say no the whole time, if people think that sinn fein are fit govern thats fine but i want to hear genuine policy proposals coming from sinn fein before i can take them serious.
Whatever, i would prefer an irish man like gerry adams running my coutry then some german politician! It amazes me how people can be so vicious to there own while lickin foreigners arses but suppose yous are all learning from enda kenny! Lets stand on our own two feet and tell germany were to go and take enda & co with them!!!!
@ Paddy. Its easy to say no all the time but its harder to be right to say no when the two main parties are telling you to vote yes. Sinn fein were correct on Lisbon so I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt this time. I’m waiting as well to see what Stephen Donnellly TD recommends. He’s the only elected official I trust 100%
Sinn Féin time and time again have proposed costed alternatives to austerity budget imposed by Fine Gael/Labour and Fianna Fail. Even the IMF agreed that the use of the Pension Reserve Fund to fuel job creation was a good idea. I am fed up with people saying Sinn Fein dont offer alternatives, its just that the Right choose to ignore them.
Its just as easy to yes all the time Paddy.Especially if your concerned about your legacy in history than and what the boss man says.Its time Enda and the boys realised who they represent. And that is not big business.
Aisling Quigley
This what I have been saying all along
I will face any amount of austerity ,if it is our own making ,
but to be in poverty and still paying into dead banks and
German /Franco economies is just out of the question.
I will vote No for Ireland.
I just heard that IMF is ”urging ECB and the european union to restructure the Anglo promissory note ,to help the country (Ireland) to return to market next year…..
Are they scared of a NO vote too ???
He he he !!!
I am with Colm on this. YES all the way. I wish mr Adams would go back up the north and stay there.
Yeah hes really upsetting the brilliant Lab/FG Continuity FF Government… At least Fianna Fail always supports the government.
Didn’t see that coming
Were you too busy voting ‘YES for jobs’ for lisbon?
At the last election, SF advocated following Icelands path and deafulting on the private banking debt. All of the FG/Labour supoprters claimed that this was ludicrous, as Iceland was a basket-case. I would love to hear these same commentors now say that it was a ludicrous policy. Iceland are back borrowing, with a better credit rating than us, half the unemployment rate, and they are no longer saddled with Banking debt….. grrrrrr ….. Every one of the FG/Labour commentators are soooo full of it. And i have no doubt that they will argue someother crap coming up to the next election (and we will still have FF/FG/Labours banking debt hanging off our necks like a hangmans noose, and not just for our generation,m but our childrens generation also. Well done to you, and thank you for this).
Private savings were decimated in Iceland though & not just those of the mega rich either but you never hear them talk about that
So cal we should default and go like Iceland yes?do you agree with leaving the euro single currency?
All the people that compare us to Iceland are not living in the same world (1) How much private funds (ordinary citizens) were lost in savings (2) We cant reduce our interest rates (3) We cant print money. We really are caught by the balls no matter what anyone says. I dont like the idea of this treaty but it really seems like the only option to ensure we don’t go into this mess again in the future. If we do leave the euro we will be paying euro mortgages (as who is really going to convert there loan book to an Irish currency as it has not certantity for a few years) on the new Irish currency which we will have to devalue and so you are now getting your wages in punts and possibly your mortgage in euros (cheaper money for banks and less risk than IR£) or if we do convert banks will have to increase rates further for the losses on cenverting back with the exchange rate risk. It would be a nightmare as how far would we have to devlaue is anyones guess. The one thing about being in the Euro compared to our own is the rest of the EU cant afford to let us fail and we are a torn in there side for it so we should use that to our advantage. It will take time but the option of on giving them the 2 fingers as nice as it would be really is dangerous territory.
@Declan, Iceland are currently being wooed by Europe to join the EU right now…. dunnily enough, after they defaulted. If we defaulted while in The Euro (on Private banking debt only), and started addressing all the publicly funded salaries over 100k, as well as immediately reduce all publicly funded pensions to a max of 80k per year, we would automatically be back close to the 3% budget defecit. But as i keep mentioning, Kenny, Gilmore, Martin are not inrterested in this, as this would immediately impact their pockets directly. They would rather rob us blind. By the way, Iceland did this too… they cut the top salaries by almost 2/3′s. Latvia did it also, and Latvia is now one of the stronger economies in Europe. And Latvia had the IMF in their country 5 years ago. FG/Labour and FF are so worried about their own wages, they would rather cut the incomes of the poorest in our country, rather than face the elephant in the ciorner with the big sign around its neck that mentions “Our wages are too high”.
One has to laugh at Mr.Adams alleged concern over the closure of Garda Stations when some of his paramilitary buddies done their best to close them before by shooting Gardai.
Richie, no probs, you stay living in the past, the rest of us have moved on. I am sure you will still vote FF next time out, as your selective memeory on everything that has gone to pot in our country this century has obviously slipped your mind.
Mr. Mooney let me assure you that I do not live in the past and I am stating a fact, Mr. Adams and his associates are the ones with selective memories as they seem to forget about who it was who pulled triggers and where bodies are buried. When they fully accept their crimes and make wholesome genuine apologies then I may take them seriously. As to who I vote for next time out that will be based on performance in this current term of the Dail and nothing else so please don’t make presumptions about someone you don’t even know. When Sinn Fein remember all the things that slipped their minds then I will consider voting of them.
Well said Richie
Richie. You said: “As to who I vote for next time out that will be based on performance in this current term of the Dail and nothing else so please don’t make presumptions about someone you don’t even know. When Sinn Fein remember all the things that slipped their minds then I will consider voting of them.”
You just totally contradicted yourself. If Sinn Féin were to pull off the performance of the century in the Dáil and be worthy of your vote, you are still judging them on “something else,” something you think you know. So it has nothing to do with Dáil performance, only your vitriolic prejudices buoyed by an absence of fact and a clear penchant for fiction.
My goodness Ailis that’s some powerful writing but pause whilst I retort, I am not contradicting myself as my post makes my views on Sinn Fein quite clear and my voting preference will be based on the performances of the other parties as Sinn Fein are for me a non runner, I thought that point was made quite clear, now you argue about fact and fiction well let’s see where is the fiction in the murder of Gerry McCabe by the IRA? What would a respectable man like Martin Ferris be doing picking up those responsible upon their release from prison in a transit van?? Is that all fiction Ailis?? I think not, you are entitled to your beliefs and opinions as I am mine but dare not accuse me of spouting vitriol when I speak about factual situations
Fair play Richie..once again you are spot on. This heinous act occurred 16 years ago during peace talks…there are still otr’s from justice who were involved yet the collective memory of commentators here seems very short. And what about the murder of Robert McCartney? The brush off of Private Kellys son during the presidential campaign? Im sorry but much as I admire the steps taken for peace by the belligerants on.ALL sides my vote is precious to me. SF were the main reason I voted no in dail enquiry referendum.
Yeah that was done to close Gardaí stations. eejit.
If people are going to use Garda McCabe as a political football, can they at least have the cop to spell his name right. It was J not G.
Well Vim if that’s the type of childish logic you wish to employ then you should have the decency to give the man his correct rank of Detective Garda, a political football is not what is being kicked here its the disgraceful way acts such as that and others are being handily kicked to one side and filed under the name of a “freedom fight”
I’m surprised at the amount of trolling this article has attracted. There are people on here who actually take Gerry Adams seriously.
Eh, you DO know he’s got a 46% leadership satisfaction rating among the electorate in general, don’t you??
I’m voting yes for austerity we need to get our budget deficit into line,they should speed up the budget cuts,quicker done quicker recovery 16billion deficit worst in industrilized world,instead of 3.5billion in cuts in this Decembers budget they should go for 6-6.5 billion euro same again next year and a final year cut of 4billion then it will all be finished and we can have our summer holidays in killarney or wexford
14 people thumbing down my comment,you wouldn’t all have huge debts,mortgage arrears remortgaged houses in some cases 3 continental hoildays a year car in the driveway or maybe 2 cars,5 and 6 children Esb arrears gas arrears TV arrears etc good aul oirland alive and well
Growth is the only way that a country gets out of excess debt at the scale the Eurozone has. This treaty will have all Eurozone countries bar Finalnd, slashing spending at once. Exports how are you when that happens.
hash tag with article #gerry says no very funny! its like he is after realising he’s related to ian paisley and is continuing the family tradition!!
ian paisley would do more for his people and his country than f/g f/f or labour would do and he defenty would no sell off his country.ian paisley and gerry adams treats theire people better than this so call govt we have
I agree with you to a certain extent Donna. However, politicians in the north have never really had to worry about running an economy. That big money pipe from London keeps on giving.
Voting Yes ensures balanced budgets which means no future austerity. Voting No guarantees unimaginable austerity with 50% cuts in welfare etc needed as external support will be unavailable. Must be part of the Shinners all Ireland strategy to reduce welfare rates and public service pay to Northern Ireland levels.
How does voting yes balance the budget?
I thought the whole point was to vote yes, so we can continue borrowing to pay for our deficit – most of which is created by the cost of rescuing the banking system – and it’s working sooooo well:
“Ireland’s budget deficit widened to 21.4 billion euros ($28.7 billion) in the 11 months through November, boosted by the cost of rescuing the financial system.”
“Voting Yes ensures balanced budgets which means no future austerity”
I hate to reiterate myself but I think my reply to that nugget the last time was – LOL….so……………..
“Voting Yes ensures balanced budgets which means no future austerity” ———– LOL
Wanna bet Stephen, we’re still waiting for the jobs from Lisbon treaty, oh sorry, I forgot Kevin Cardiff.
U all seem well versed in this however Im hereing the same old shite nothing new. I dont trust or like Gerry Adams but that just makes him like any other politician. I will vote no & if as a result of that we will have a economic nuclear winter we will have deal with it. All this is being threatened by politicians here & abroad. However you look at it its bullying. I dont want to deal with this mafia. Lets vote no lets leave the euro lets burn these bullies cos sooner or later they will destroy us. This is the same as 1930s europe it may even end in a war. Wake up lets get out.
Michael J Hartnett
Well said ,I agree with you . I do not want to be
threatened or bullied,by the bigger countries,so much that we will lose our own identity.
I say Kenny and Gilmore are liars , they have ulterior motives and I do not trust them.
There are bigger things afoot and this is only the thin end of the wedge.Get out now ,
say no. Stand firm , do not be afraid ,enough is enough.
I know there are some good people on here who have good reason to distrust and even
hate SF and G Adams, in fact I have some reservations but I can not or will not bow to
my own fears.I do not know what to say with out sounding as if I don’t care about
your feelings. But we must draw a line under Ireland’s violent past . I was saying the same
last year when Queen Elizabeth came to Ireland and there were some very bitter comments
on the Journal about her visit.
This Treaty / fiscal compact is bigger than our own personal feelings on serious events that
happened in the past. We must vote NO .
Sadly, I believe Stephen’s analysis to be Correct , the choices are bad or worse , there is no magic wand .
Sinn Fein’s economic policy seems to be , “cant pay wont pay , lend me a fiver” sounds great in opposition , doesn’t work out too great in Govt.
Vote no if you like but there’s pain around the Corner either way & Gerry Adams ain’t gonna make it any better.
Multi.Declan & Stephen have summed it up perfectly…what we have is not perfect but if we vote no you will see the equivalent of a nuclear strike on.our stuttering economy and the fall out will be catastrophic
Multi talentless=sinn fein Multi talentless=dail eireann, you are correct in this comment,imagine Gerry Adams pearse doherty or Jim Higgins Clare Daly or Richard Boyd Barrett as tshock and a ula sinn fein coalition government do people really believe that they will tell the troika to fuck off?get a grip people they will do the same as the present shower of over paid useles dimwits Europe rules this country,cut the deficit quickers byebye troika
Multi talentless=sinn fein Multi talentless=dail eireann, you are correct in this comment,imagine Gerry Adams pearse doherty or Jim Higgins Clare Daly or Richard Boyd Barrett as tshock and a ula sinn fein coalition government do people really believe that they will tell the troika to fuck off?get a grip people they will do the same as the present shower of over paid useles dimwits Europe rules this country,cut the deficit quicker byebye troika loan sharks
Gerry Adams hasn’t a clue about economics. It’s obvious from debates he participates in! Others in Sinn Féin kinda do. But maybe that’s why the used €50,000 worth of ink to make leaflets about this!
Mr Lee, Enda Kenny, Gilmore and Burton elected to pay themselves up to 50,000 euro tax free as opposition TDs using an allowance given to their parties for party funding by the Tax payer … So your argument is crap. And they payed themselves that each and every year from 2001 onwards … my maths is not that great, but that means Kenny paid himself 500,000 Euro Tax free on top of his salary and on top of his expenses etc in that 10 year period (not 100% sure how much the other thieves, sorry Labour leaders paid themselves (i understand it was over 200,000 euro each. Makes Toner-gate look a bit small in comparison (especially when it was Toner that was wasted and not actual cash being paid into accounts). I ask you Mr Lee to answer these charges, instead of defending them with smoke screen about bloody Toner.
Taxi for Mr Lee.
People don’t understand if we walk away from the troika we are dead as a nation, troika 3.5% interest markets 7% take your pick both are going to screw us,we have to borrow to run this state any alternatives don’t mention bankers and speculators and Anglo I’m talking now about the budget deficit
@Declan
IMF EU Banks Developers Troika German France Bonds bullying scaremongering.
Sick to death with the lot what about the majority of people that caused no increase to the debt that lived in there means during the boom and bust years which there is many in this country paying through our teeth for mess.At this stage I wont care if we defaulted now instead of this BS scaremongering feed to us everyday.
Politicians bankers developers should always be mentioned and never forgotten their the architects of this mess with no arrest to date.
Nope, we’re walking dead right now – just kept in this zombie like state by the “bailout”. Most of that money goes straight back out of the country to pay for the bank debts.
We’re not dead as a nation if we walk away. We’ll address the deficit (yes, that WILL be painful) and get back on our feet.
Stephen you are totally correct that is exactly what will happen and I speak with no love or affinity to any poilitician or party in this country,in fact I hate the troika and dail eireann but we have to reduce our budget deficit its too high, people are annoyed because of their particular situations as regards money bills arrears etc and they are going to use they’re anger to vote no simple
Give some credit to the people, many many will vote no because they don’t want this, they see it as a bad move.
If everyone was just content to use a protest vote then FG would not be so intent on ratifying this, they also believe the electorate are stupid and would use reverse psychology.
Anyway, acknowledging a protest vote is a step towards acknowledging that their continuity FF policies are failing the people, no issues – no protest.
Europe are trying to woo Iceland hahahaha other way around cal, secondly Iceland defaulted because they have they’re own currency which they devalued giving a boost to their exports,now remember Iceland is not in the EU or the euro,population of Iceland is 400,000 people also Iceland are thinking of their fishing industry also Iceland will be paying back their debt through the courts over the next few years back to Britain and Holland,eh cal I’m talking about international pension funds investing here not the NTMA investing irish pension funds in Singapore or China
Obviously irish people don’t understand pension funds invest in this country and these are some of the bondholders
@Declan …. The NTMA did a great job managing the public pension funds … they grew them…. But they primarily invested the funds outside of Ireland, as even they could see the writing on the wall for our economy. You argument that we should not have defaulted (or should not) does not hold water.
Yes Declan Sir we are all thick hicks and just don’t get it!! Thank you so much for blessing us with your superior wisdom of who the bond holders are, its a huge pity you don’t understand bonds and investments!
it’s a gas country alright, I find it hard to distinguish one party’s members from each others by their utterences. They all use rhetoric to diguise lack of integrity. The legacy of entitlement handed down from fianna Fáil is embraced equally by all parties & independants. Their graves will be too small for them. And Mr Adams talking about austerity offends me, neither he or any of his fellow Dáil members are suffering any belt tightening. SF can claim to live on the average industrial wage all they like, but with their expense accounts that wage need never be touched. Indeed TD O’Snodaigh told me in an email that the residue after the industrial wage is given to their constituency offices, so presumedly we the tax payer are paying the whole whack, so where is the moral high ground there.
Expenses are run through the party as well. It is about not benefiting personally. Personally I’m all in favour of all TD accountsm #every single investment they have being monitored. Down to what they right personal cheques for.
@Eugene o neill,I never said everybody in ireland is to blame,but people need to cop on,material wealth has brought us to this position,irish people have a fixation with property and mainly houses and investment property greedy trying to get rich quick muppets,why is it from daft.ie last week said only 10% of people in ireland want to buy or rent an APARTMENT and 75% of people expect to buy a HOUSE within 5years and get a mortgage 5 years into austerity and 5 more to come and we haven’t really learned anything,why is it that the Netherlands don’t have economic problems and we do work it out!
Looks like the Netherlands will be the first country to be fined for breaking the rules under the new fiscal compact.
What was that you were saying again?
That greedy comment is a mindless generalization.
Who’s going to pay for public services Michael? if as you said WE GET OUT !!
Whose paying for them now?? We are paying for roads 1000′s of times over with tolls, we are paying for road tax and massive vat on petrol. Roads are a perfect example of how we are paying for same bad service 3 times over!! We pay our politicians a salary then we pay them expenses and attendance and laundry same bad service paid for 3 times!! Would you like me to go on?? Wake up vote NO
Whats going to pay for them if this EU lead lunacy go tits up. If they fail & it all goes belly up what will happen. I presume we can use the imf as we have done the last number of years. Im also glad you say what about public services I think the private sector would be badly hit as well but I think we will have to face.all your fears anyway. We are not saving our selves we are saving european banks. I dont trust these political elites anymore. So Im voting no maybe thats not responsible but I feel its the only solution.
Dunn Fein Inc will find us a few million squid.
Ah Gerry “Ink” before you talk, or should i say think…. you should have learned to keep your gob shut from all your years in the RA.
And you mentioned Iceland and Latvia cutting top salaries by 2/3 you are correct,Latvia didn’t default they had the imf,iceland did default when did Latvia join the EU cal,think it was only 10 years ago,have you Been to Latvia cal?I have only 6months ago you would be shocked when you get their cal,you should talk to a Latvian citizen in ireland they will tell you everything
Declan, I have been to Latvia … dont be so arrogant. i was in Riga (Latvia), Tallinn (Estonia), Gdansk (Poland) all in the lasrt 12 months
You and cal both have nice cars,pimp my ride Europe !!
My car is for.sale.to pay for my visa to canada. I have lost.everything including my marriage & people like me are living in fear from this crisis no money no future. Politicians are striking fear in us & there is no trust thats why Im voting no. Its not anger its fear. We live in fear in this.country anger is not the main driving force. The politicians are creating fear. Thats not a healthy.society.
Yes I agree politicians wages are too high,people on social welfare, bottom of the public service, minimum wage workers should be protected as they are the most vunerable in our society,but we need to tackle the high rollers in the public services,I thinl RTE should be privatized its costs 200million per year we can’t afford it its losing 34million this year,I read your comment cal some parts I agree others I don’t
Adams/treaty/vote no. Duh…
In fairness he is allowed as an elected representative to share his opinion and direct his supporters as are all the other parties.
Have a read of this interesting article on The Independent. It didn’t get enough attention that it should have, which is the way. A lot of people I know and online seem to talk about Sinn Fein as if they are the only party which looks after and understands the pain of the working class. They target the working class. They talk about the bonuses, the tax increases, the cuts to expenditure etc. explaining how hard its impacting on the people. They claim to only take the industrial wage, which is incorrect (they draw the full wage from the state coffers donating the remaining sum to the party, therefore left with around the industrial wage. The expenses make up for their loss).
Could someone explain to me how such a party can be seen as a true working class people power party when they use the donations from the working class and the involuntary donations from the tax payers to pay for their first class trips to America as part of their fundraising drive. We were up in arms, as were Sinn Fein, when the Fianna Fail expenses scandal broke with the likes of O’Donoghue, Aherne and Harney to name a few. We demanded they resign.
This is exactly what should have been said when Ó Snodaigh was discovered to have blown 50k of our money on ink alone, never mind the paper costs. They do this type of expense milking in the North also, Gerry Adams included.
Michael above claims that Gerry “understands very well the minds of the electorate”. Yet, the very same person was in an expenses scandal in the north – claiming for a second home he was never in, and claiming well above the average rate in that area. The very same TD and his associates flew club-class across the Atlantic, fancy hotels and fancy restaurants. Something the working class would be furious about if it was any other TD / party (which they have been furious about and likely will continue to do so due to the disconnect our politicians have).
What we need is someone or some party that will stand up and say “No” to the massive expenses and wages. When they mean “No” they don’t pull tricks like “Well ill donate it to my party, consistency or a charity” — the fact remains, they are drawing it down and impacting on the state finances. They are taking OUR money. So they are no different. We need proper and real reform that no party or person is offering.
Its time to get real. Its time to wake up. If we don’t want this crazy spending, we need to demand it and stop going from party to party hoping they have a solution when its clear from day one that each and every party has TDs on the gravy train.
Sinn Fein has been on the gravy train for years drawing on public funds from Westminster, Brussels, Stormont and Dublin. Huge amounts of money has been donated by naive supporters in the USA and elsewhere. And of course Sinn Fein received support from Gadaffi in Libya and other secret sources.
Are we short of news ! you could hardly describe the headline of this article as news , Mr Gerry line my own pockets Adams has since his leadership of the provos managed to sell himself albeit with oodles of help from British military intelligence as the Moses of Irish republicanism leading the blind and gullible to the promised land of welfare dependency as they say horses for courses but it’s not news.
As for me I am voting no .
I believe Deputy Adams is even older than I am. He understands very well the minds of the electorate, particularly his own constituency. I’m afraid I am hot on his heals in that regard. It’s all so bloody predictable. Having long believed that humans are a cut above yer average goldfish, I thought it at least possible we might actually think for ourselves. But we continue to slavishly follow the lead of these cynical, self-regarding ego-maniacs. So, if ye have a big FF head on you, sit on a toilet and get wheeled around the streets of Dublin yodeling about yer right to discharge effluent where ye fecking like. If ye have a big Labour head on ye, the Croke Park agreement i yer only man (love the irony there doncha?). If it’s a fat SF head squatting there, “Ulcer says no”. If it’s a big FG head yer have, well feck the rest of ‘em, it was we what won it, now it’s my turn. In fairness…
@Anal cream get rid off your car if u don’t wanna pay vat tax tolls and petrol,yes I know the difference between bonds and investments and NO its not a sweeping generalisation what I commented on,how do we fund our public services with 35billion euro per year nobody has managed to answer that question so far
One more Declan, as you obviously didnt read my post above …. @Declan, Iceland are currently being wooed by Europe to join the EU right now…. dunnily enough, after they defaulted. If we defaulted while in The Euro (on Private banking debt only), and started addressing all the publicly funded salaries over 100k, as well as immediately reduce all publicly funded pensions to a max of 80k per year, we would automatically be back close to the 3% budget defecit. But as i keep mentioning, Kenny, Gilmore, Martin are not inrterested in this, as this would immediately impact their pockets directly. They would rather rob us blind. By the way, Iceland did this too… they cut the top salaries by almost 2/3′s. Latvia did it also, and Latvia is now one of the stronger economies in Europe. And Latvia had the IMF in their country 5 years ago. FG/Labour and FF are so worried about their own wages, they would rather cut the incomes of the poorest in our country, rather than face the elephant in the ciorner with the big sign around its neck that mentions “Our wages are too high”.
If Gerry Adams says No, then there us a danger that many others who would like to vote No will vote Yes.
@skeolawn january 2013 what’s hollands current budget deficit skeolawn we should be fined too here in eire
If austerity is a good solution for Ireland, then it should be good for Holland too.
I am disgusted with the Irish government as they talk about the FF betraying us, it is repeat history in itself” signing the fiscal reform treaty before the people signed their vote” if we want to stay in the euro” and the shocking case about this was that FG government had devil intension and maliciously set out to do this to provoke the Irish people” well this is going to come back and hunt him in the long run” if he is lucky to make it in government” very idiotic and child like the way this immature man goes on and other leader parties along side of him” he is a total disgrace to Ireland and a bloody fool” he never even talked about negotiating on behalf of the Irish people” instead the greed and the corruption took place with woof in Brussels his favourite eu companionship” he should be a shame of himself and the others” I never voted them in” nor did I ask for him to sign a fiscal treaty in my name” no consent” by me or you people” we must make our vote and turn out in large numbers to let this government know that it was not in our names, to sign up to austerity , Rita Cahill
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