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A TEACHERS’ UNION president has explained why pay equality is so important for its members, on a week where both primary and secondary level teachers’ unions hold their annual conferences.
A pay arrangement in 2010 put newly qualified teachers on a lower scale than their colleagues; around 75% of the cuts introduced at that time have now been restored since.
Today, the Teachers’ Union of Ireland (TUI) president Joanne Irwin spoke to Morning Ireland and responded to questions about the pay changes that their members want.
She explained what teachers are asking for:
From a post-primary point of view, what we’re looking for is the restoration of the one common basic scale for teachers.
What we’re not looking for is for someone who is starting out to be on the same as someone who is there for 20 years, but we’re looking for everybody to be on the same salary scale.
For primary teachers what we’re looking for is the reinstatement of a qualification allowance that we used to receive for the period of pre-service training, and which is now a two-year training programme.
Irwin said that its membership of around 15,000 teachers and lecturers have already voted in favour of industrial action if pay equality measures aren’t advanced.
The TUI are different in that we already have a mandate for industrial action on this issue, so if this motion is tabled at congress it is very clear that we will continue our campaign for industrial action up to and including strike action.
Yesterday, teachers’ union the INTO said that if pay equality isn’t negotiated, that “members of the three unions will work closely together and we will be shutting down schools and withdrawing labour”.
Education Minister Richard Bruton says pay increases in 2016 mean that the pay gap has already been narrowed. Irwin responded to this:
The gap has been narrowed but unfortunately had a disproportionate hit in terms of the public sector – in that we were hit in 2011 and hit again in 2012, and then unfortunately in 2013 for post-primary teachers they extended the training period to a two-year training on top of three- or four-year degree. We’ve been hit quite a few times.
Gráinne Ní Aodha / Twitter'People who do the same work deserve the same pay,' Mitchell O'Connor says. @Emma_okelly then asks if teachers should get the same pay... pic.twitter.com/pJZ9FTAkTy
— Gráinne Ní Aodha (@GNiAodha) August 23, 2017
RTÉ’s Rachel English put it to Irwin that a newly qualified teacher earns €36,000 a year in their first year, which is more than “a lot of new graduates earn”.
Irwin replied:
I think it’s important to point out that for teaching, only 22% of our recent or new entrants actually receive a contract of full hours. Only 22% receive that €36,000 – unfortunately there is a crisis in the recruitment and retention of teachers.
She said that there had been a 62% drop in the number of those applying to become primary school teachers since the pay cuts came in 2011.
“We have a concern about that,” she said, adding that many teachers don’t see themselves in that profession in 10 years’ time.
Irwin was asked that isn’t it the same across all professions, that if people were asked would they stay in their jobs if they received a pay increase they would say ‘yes’.
They’re not actually asking that they earn more, they’re asking that they be treated the same as their colleagues in the staff room. We’re looking for equality of treatment among all teachers.
The TUI and the ASTI, which represent secondary school teachers, are to hold their annual conferences later today; the INTO’s conference began over the weekend in Killarney, Co Kerry.
Education Minister
Richard Bruton / TwitterRecording an interview with @TodaySOR about the major review of the relationships and sexuality curriculum which I'm announcing today. Last big review was in the late 1990s. Young people today face a range of different challenges. Tune in after 10am! pic.twitter.com/vY80ETK1sS
— Richard Bruton (@RichardbrutonTD) April 3, 2018
Speaking on Today with Sean O’Rourke, Bruton said that when he first took on the role as Minister for Education, “we negotiated an increase of between 15-22% for newly qualified teachers”.
So now a teacher straight out of college is being recruited at €36,000, and that’s closed about 75% of the gap.
He said that the government said there would be a process to reexamine this, and the Minister for Public Expenditure Paschal Donohoe published a paper on how this would be done across the public sector (teachers, nurses, and gardaí are among that cohort).
Donohoe estimated the cost to the taxpayer would be €200 million. Public sector pay talks are expected to begin on 27 April.
When asked whether teachers can get a separate special deal, Bruton said:
“I think this has to be dealt with across the whole of the public sector – it’s clear that new entrant pay is something that affected a number of grades [of the public sector].
We’ve always had a collective approach to agreements so that when people enter into agreements with the State regardless of whether they’re in a strong or a weak position, they get a fair deal.
He said that over the past number of years, “more teachers have been recruited than in other grades”.
Important to say that in the last two years, I’ve recruited 5,000 additional teachers – that’s more than has ever been recruited in the State before.
The numbers show that students leaving college more of them are now getting work in Ireland and fewer are emigrating.
He said that he recognises that there is a pressure in getting substitutes at primary level, and at secondary level there is “particular” pressure to get teachers in subjects like STEM, languages and Irish.
Bruton added that work was ongoing to identify what resources were needed by the education sector before efforts were made to tackle the deficits.
Updated at 10.55am, first published at 8.15am.
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Loss of appetite to do the job they were elected for.
@Paul Gorry: Unemployment is at historical lows – whatever politicians say, building quicker is dependent on attracting more foreign labour which loops back to increased housing demands – Celtic Tiger meltdown territory. The likely more instant option is Trump’s economic suicide. Choose yer fix – all quite grim. As a small plus, housing here is cheaper than London, mean wages higher. For what it’s worth, my gripe is the pitiful public transport – everyone has to cram into far smaller zones.
@Paul Gorry: why have appetite when you already got elected, all the promises out of the window till the next election. Gold fishes will forget everything
@Lei tatt: 8 years on Simon’s scoliosis promise 8 years…. a lot of disappointed families and kids living in pain. Shocking!!
@Joanne Stokes: in all fairness, the previous government did give ring fenced funds to temple street for these operations however the unelected, unaccountable and untouchable officials spent it elsewhere and still don’t know where. We correctly hold the government to account and have a say in who forms the government but we have no power (it seems the government don’t either) over the officials spending the money, whether it’s in health, housing opw or any other public organisation
@The next small thing: correct.
Owning your house is essential for a decent quality of life in Ireland now. Even if it’s a kip of a place it’s still far better than renting something fancy for extortionate rates.
@Dan The Man: exactly,I’d rather own a kip,than rent a mansion.
@Dan The Man: As a foreigner (USA) living in Ireland for over twenty years, renting was the only alternative. There were just too many hurddles to jump through to own property in Ireland. However, I found renting isn’t too bad, provided you have a decent landlord with whom you both realise the property is a collaborative relationship. Yes, ownership would’ve been nice… But the difficulty of buying, and the difficulty of selling when I retire to move to a warmer climate… There is too much of a headache. Ireland isn’t an easy place to live in many cases…. But it is far better than other places. Let’s face it… Nowhere is perfect!
@Electro Box: where would this be? Asking for a friend!
@Dan The Man:
Renters Refrain …
No way… I am in shock!!
@Donna Fallon: it’s not surprising considering the shortage of qualified builders.
@Johnny Wilson: agreed,apprenticeships have fallen off a cliff as there is full employment and plenty of choice.Also a lot of Eastern European builders have gone home because there is work at home in there own country.I personally know of lots of guys in my own trade from these countries that have returned home.
@Johnny Wilson: Imagine if for every thousand they let strut in here to be on benefits and live here,that even if one in every thousand had some building trade ,but no it’s racist to even think that.
@Johnny Wilson: The dead hand of the government is responsible for the fall off in apprenticeships.
The whole education system is geared towards academic qualifications. Meanwhile, the HSA has made it increasingly difficult to have unqualified people on site or find meaningful work for them to do.
And don’t overlook the great job that Revenue has done, to the extent that many tradesmen don’t see the point in spending 10 hours / day going to a site to do backbreaking work in all weather’s. Meanwhile, people that never worked seem to live just as well.
@Thomas Sheridan: well said but they actually live better by not breaking their bikes and sitting on their asses because the welfare system is so generous, there has been studies done in the past and a personal welfare with all the benefits is earning €47,000 a year versus the average industrial wage of €33,800 so there is absolutely no initiative to work
Nothing will change while Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are still in power. Housing targets will continue to be missed and they’ll continually double down on their failed centre-left policies that have caused the shortage. Bureaucratic red tape and endless regulations slow down the construction process exponentially. Strict rent control laws choke the supply of housing and stop the houses from being built in the first place. Profits are what persuade construction companies to build. When profits are high, this causes more construction companies to enter to market and that’s what creates more housing. Ireland’s zoning laws also prevent houses from being built. Single-use zoning needs to be banned and planning boards should not be able to restrict land use based on any predetermined categories.
@William Jennings: Copy and paste. Copy and paste. Tell me Willam,Jag pilot extrodinare and cyber security expert.. who are you actually representing here? One assumes you’re a grown man.. who advocates for another grown man going around with an actual chainsaw like some gimp out of a WWE skit. You advocate the complete abolition of social welfare and housing and of the social contract. Your answer to everything is complete deregulation of all social systems and promotion of extreme capitalism.. speaking personally.. you can fk right off with your Yankee propaganda and your chainsaw. Shill.
@Brian: No answers as usual Brian, just pathetic insults. You’re nothing more than a dumb schmuck who lacks any comprehension of basic economic principles. Capitalism is the only economic system that has a proven track record of working everywhere it’s tried. Ireland is a mixed economy and that’s precisely why we have all the problems in areas such as housing and healthcare. Honestly mate, cry more. You live in a state of Marxist delusion that has no basis in reality. The jealousy is seething off you, I can practically picture the steam coming out of your ears as you typed up that rage-fuelled response. Get a grip, get a life and realise that free-market policies are the only way to build prosperity within a country. Socialism has worked in a grand total of zero countries buddy.
@William Jennings: I’ve given plenty of answers to your idiotic questions and the parroted extreme capitalist drivel you spout. Alas, you never listen.. Im still waiting for the actual facts and figures on the millions of dead people paid social security your WWEq hero chainsaw Musk uncovered.. records which he the deleted without providing one verifiable piece of information. Now in your own time Willam.. and do try not to use words like “if ” and ” most likely”. Facts. You’re not in Kansas now Dorothy.
@Brian: “You have chosen to mute William Jennings comments”. Try it. Works a treat.
@Brian: You’re diverting from the issue at hand again Brian. We’re discussing housing here, not Elon Musk. Why are you lying? You’ve offered no answers whatsoever to any of the questions that I’ve asked you. Socialism, where has it worked? Since you hate free-market economics, surely you must have tons of examples of where this alternative system works. It’s funny how left-wing you are that when I discuss basic economics facts, you throw a hissy fit and say that I’m “parroting extreme Capitalism.” It’s hilarious really. I’m pretty glad that you’re not in charge anywhere because if you were, the development of Ireland would be stunted even more by your opposition to the ability of people to freely make money based on their entrepreneurial skills and talents.
One development here in Cork City has been refused permission by An Bord Pleanála all because of a bus stop, another one of over 1300 homes refused permission in the Cork Dockland area again by An Bord Pleanála all because poor road infrastructure at a location 20KM away near Cobh. For over 50 years the residents of the Cobh area have been looking for an upgrade to the road network on the Island to no avail. When it comes to road infrastructure this country is an embarrassment.
@Leonard Barry: All this not happening with a Cork lead government. Mehole won’t even look after his own. He can’t even take a leaf out of the Healy Raes Book
@Criostoir Mac Raghnaill: Ah yeah,great example of parish pump politics….’look after his own’…’cork led government’
@Criostoir Mac Raghnaill: because he doesn’t work for Ireland anymore he works for the European overlords but we continue to pay him like morons with our taxes , we need change big time as it’s already becoming too late for the future generations
The number would be ok if the government didn’t put Irish people at the bottom of the queue for social housing
It’s only March and already the government has thrown its hat in and resigned itself to failure, what hope have we got.
That’s 6000 non Irish without a home .
@Richie Whelan: EU
The election is over. Only difference between last year and this is they don’t feel they have to lie this year. Sure what do they have to worry about.
Every target will be missed for the coming year except unemployment.
The “government” (and I loosely use the term) are more interested in bullying the opposition into submission on givivg part of their speaking time to Lowry’s raving rabble!!
@Ollie Fitzpatrick: it’s the opposition who are attacking democracy, and it’s thanks to current and previous Govt that the country has full employment
@Johnny Wilson:
Please, don your logical cap rather than your FF/FG blindfold!
@Ollie Fitzpatrick: employment data for the past few years isn’t hard to find, nor understand
THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A DEFEATIST ATTITUDE BY THE GOVERNMENT, OF COURSE THE REQUIRED NUMBER OF NEW DWELLINGS CAN BE ACHIEVED BY INCREASING THE LAND BANK THROUGH RELEASING STATE AND CHURCH OWNED VACANT LANDS WITHIN THE VARIOUS BOROUGHS, REDUCE V.A.T. ON BUILDING MATERIALS, AND INCREASE NUMBER OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING AS A PRIORITY.
@5GKJ4Fgy:
And if they did all that in the morning, who would build them?
@P. J.: Such a fffg reply. Get the boat.
As long as the wealthy see housing here as a lucrative investment commodity, the housing crisis is going nowhere. More private investment isn’t going to solve anything, it just exponentially increases the wealth of the wealthy and their ability to outcompete people that are just looking to buy a home.
The Irish housing crisis is a multi billion euro industry that FFG have no intention of putting a stop to.
@P. J.: people would rather work in coffee shops and complain about high rent, than work on a building site and be able to afford to buy there own home.
What do you expect from this government 4 months in and no legislations no committees…no hope!!
@Joanne Stokes: the reason for no committees is down to the opposition, lead by the Shinners attacking democracy
That’s going to be less than 30k
The key issue here is that the government doesn’t build houses and should not.
If u don’t make building houses profitable, none will be built. It’s pretty straight fw.
You also need foreign capital to build pats, again everyone seems to be against this and as a result they won’t invest and build.
@John Purcell: Only sensible comment so far.But the usual bunch in here love to blame the government on everything and expect the government to hand them everything.
@John Paul: the other issue is at local level nobody wants to build houses.
FF/FG at local level don’t want to build houses, as the ppl that vote for them want to maintain their house value. SF at local level don’t want houses built as it’s the only way for them to get elected.
It’s incredible.
a boxer property developer would be fit ! And able to build your dreams
be prepare for a good recession
Well no surprise there, they haven’t met any targets to date.
It’s obvious the government aren’t going to meet demand so this seems like an ideal time for the opposition parties to get together and form a building company/Co op to build the required houses needed, they can then sell them at below market price and show the government that it can be done.
I heard the same builders that are building the childrens hospital are going to be building the houses. So don’t hold your breath.
@Rian O’Callaghan: How would getting rid of Ukranains help? They don’t get houses – they are either in hotels or crappy centres
Targets not met, ok, wat are the repercussions here?? Fail to meet your targets in any other job then you’re in trouble & we’re talking about putting roofs over people’s heads here, real life stuff, so I say again, what are the repercussions for whoever is responsible for not meeting these targets!?
“You have chosen to mute Adam H2022 comments”.
@Luas Lips Houlihan – Dub Drag Queen: I have chosen to mute your f00lish comments. Wasting too much time!!!
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