Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
WITH THREE DAYS to go before the deadline, almost three quarters of homes have not yet paid the household charge according to the latest figures.
Figures show 426,599 households had paid the €100 charge by the close of business today, leaving around 1.2 million homes which have not paid.
The figures from the Local Government Management Agency indicate that 31,367 payments were made over the past 24 hours – a slight decrease on the previous day when 31,754 payments were made.
Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan said today that 57 black sacks of household charge payments have been received and are waiting to be processed.
The Government has said it expects a last-minute rush before the deadline for payment on Saturday.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
Just to clarify. All 1.8 million homes must register, even if they are to receive a waiver. Whatever figure is given by the government is to be subtracted from 1.8 million, and not 1.6 million.
Keep it up everyone though, we’re doing amazing. The poll tax boycott in the UK that got rid of Thatcher only had 18 percent boycotting, we have about 80 percent!!!
not quite, i heard 27% have paid or registered so far, if 60% dont pay it will be an amazing example of non-confrontational protest, fair play to everyone who hasn’t and wont pay, i would pay too if the government took a decent hit in their salaries
And to continue what happened in the UK afterwards.
Hold strong. We are doing fantastic that last few days will be hard but we must hold strong!! Together we can have one bold untied voice that they must listen to. Well done to all who have stood by the non payment so far and any one who might just hold off for a short while longer, we can do this but we have to show solidarity and strong will. Viva Ireland :D
Sorry for the typos (iPhone predictive text & fast fingers) :D
And the world are watching us with great respect also fir at ling last raking a stand to all the unjust austerity measures that OUR OWN GOVERNMENT are throwing at us to IMPRESS France and Germany SO PEOPLE STAND TOGETHER BE STRONG DO NOT REGISTER DO NOT PAY
POWER TO THE STRONG PEOPLE OF IRELAND as the song goes We shall not be moved
There is no reason to pay..we are made to believe the tax that we pay goes towards the council,community etc etc so why pay for something thats already there…
Great going. I can smell blood in the water now…
Hold the line!
Divided we fall,
United We Stand!
Amen, brother!
The words of Minister Phil Hogan himself, when he was asked in 2009 to take a 10% pay cut on his estimated €200,000 salary & expenses. Quote: “My personal circumstances don’t allow that at the moment.” Well Minister Hogan either dose mine.
Hold the line people.
Phil was put under pressure by Matt Cooper earlier this evening. I’m glad I didn’t pay. As I said before – if 1.2 million households don’t pay, that’s a hell of a lot of voting power no political party is going to ignore. Power in numbers.
Don’t wimp out people!!!
Don’t register. Don’t pay. Don’t panic
So how many of these people who have registered are EXEMPT ?
Do you really think Susie you’ll told that.
@ All
Remember! PEOPLE IS POWER!!!!!!!!! POWER TO THE PEOPLE ! The Government should know not to
screw around with the electorate. Just shows how disinterested they all really are towards the ordinary person on the street. If they even thought about, which none of them did, they should realise that we’re all trying to walk on eggshells with our lives, with our children’s lives.
Whether Hogan likes it or not, he is going to have to put his hands up and accept defeat on Saturday! If the gombeen had just thought about it he should have known not to jerk our chains, especially when he’s assuming we’re voting “yes” in May! Aw well, he can resign on a nice ex-Ministerial income. Bye bye Mr. Hogan! ………….. Now….. who’s next for the chop! :)
Brilliant attitude Sheila. Fair play to ya ;)
Norman
No we are not going to be told that . I don’t think they are being very truthful about the numbers .
@Ryan
Thanks! It’s the only attitude these people seem to understand. Sitting down and talking obviously is not in their curriculum.
In the future, which would be in the next few weeks, I think a Minister from each Government Department should meet with 1/2 representatives from a community, from Leinster, Munster and Connaught. Listen to them and work out what new tax would work for the majority of the electorate. I know some will think I’m living in Narnia, but I for one have always paid my way. I have no problem with that but the community/electorate must be involved more and I don’t mean the local TD/councilor.
I won’t be paying. Instead on the 31st I’m going to have a nice dinner and spend some money in this economy. And support my local businesses and celebrate this boycott. In fact the government should be paying people to stay and spend in this economy instead of following the austerity marching tune.
Well done Kevin,
Good man urself and if ur around in the afternoon come to the march…fg ard fheis, anglo payout and hhc…triple whammy.
Not paying, not registering. They can go to hell.
As FG said three years ago themselves:
“We believe it is economic nonsense, when unemployment is so high and private investment has collapsed, to cut back on productive public investment.
We cannot keep chasing the economy down by simply focusing on raised taxes/decreased Government spending.” (Fine Gael, NewEra, 2009)
One more u-turn by these schysters!
F*ck em!!
Fools whoever paid.
DONT PAY..
Its good to see its noted in the UK too check it out.http://t.co/2UIUdlSQ
That article is an awful ‘piss take’ on the Irish. With leprechauns, drink, and all the usual ‘Irish’ cliches!
David. “Good Government”. Mean and nasty more like it. Non payment of the household charge is my way of protesting against the mean-spirited and sneaky actions this government has taken against the most vulnerable. The easy options. Cuts in care hours for the disabled and the elderly, cuts in special needs assistants in schools, making it more difficult for those in need to access services. I could go on. While at the same time paying themselves unreasonable expenses and breaking their own rules on paying advisors. Don’t forget the household charge is designed to replace some of the central government allocation which this “Good Government” has itself withdrawn from local authorities. If local services suffer it will not be the fault of those who don’t pay the household charge. It will be down to Phil Hogan and this government. Roll on the next general election.
Has the Rule of Law in Ireland being undermined by this boycott, or by years of impunity by white collar criminals, non-vouched expenses regimes and all that disclosed by numerous Tribunals? The Government needs to actually enforce the law, properly fund the gardai/various regulators and put in place a system of true accountability for all those who benefit from the public purse. One million citizens cannot be wrong.
your sentiments about fixing the state are sound but i strongly disagree that 1 million people cant be wrong, in this case i agree they arent wrong but how many people voted for fg,ff and labour in the last election? i would say over a million were wrong then
Sad situation for Ireland to find its self in. Politics and our very democracy has been so debased and undermined by the actions of previous FF governments that when a good government attempts to govern in the interests of the people for the long term they are shot down. We were so use to FF governments giving the electorate everything they wanted that it is almost impossible to govern now. FF bought every election it fought in the past 20 years at least – now we pay the price. And what a price – economic / social disaster and a total disregard for the law and our political institutions. I really wonder what our future holds as a nation.
Broken record
Good government???
If this is a good government,
then you are totally correct,
it is a sad situation for Ireland
@David the people of this country have been walked on by politicians from all parties and i mean all.This is an incredible unfair only homeowners struggling or otherwise is expected to pay.I have friends who live in council housing with a better income than my family but they are not required topay.Care to explain the reasoning behind this.Finally wether you like it or hundreds and thousands of your fellow citizens have decided enough is enough they cannot give any more.
Meant to say “incredible unfair tax”
@David sorry but nearly one million house buyers seem to disagree
@ David,
Over 1 million people are not wrong. A percentage of people who have, which I assume is you, have paid because you believe this to be true, that your EUR100 is going to local services etc. We all know it’s not! The other percentage are both old and young Irish people who have been terrorized by Mr. Hogan and his adds for the past few weeks and because they may not be strong a human been as myself and others on this thread, they’ve paid also. This money has been promised by Hogan to the EU and has promised more to them from us before the end of the year.
We all have our opinion on it David, so don’t keep telling us that we are wrong and you are right. This should be stopped now. Thought out properly and and show a bit of dam respect to the electorate, we deserve it.
@David
“We were so use to FF governments giving the electorate everything they wanted that it is almost impossible to govern now.”
In this country we elect representitives not Juntas the job of goverment is to implement the will of the people. In other words to do what the Electorate wants. No goverment in my recolection has upheld that sacred duty. On this issue the numbers are clear the people have spoken will your “Good goverment” listen?
OK no additional taxes. Let us just cut our way out of this one – 50:1 pupil teacher ratio, close half the hospitals, sack 40,000 public servants, slash pensions, slash salaries, slash all public expenditure by 25%. We may be getting close now to making up that 18 billion euro gap in our budget. Good choice people.
Your not getting it David what government the Germans see the budget before the TD’s!!
@David: those cuts are coming anyway. We’re not going to magically “grow” our way out of this one. And I think you’re being over dramatic – 39bn euros should be enough to run a country of this size very effectively.
Average tax take on property during the boom was €100,000.
This means that hundreds of thousands of mortgage holders are still paying thousands every year and for many more years for funds borrowed by mortgageholders that went to the exchequer. So this new property tax is essentially double taxation and highly unjust.
http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10006434.shtml
18 billion David? Please stick to the facts. FG are doing the rest you suggest keep supporting yet another useless party.
What did they do with the massive intake of revenue they got from all the stamp duty on houses during the last 8 years? This tired old “but loads of other counties pay house tax!” and “who will pay for the street lighting?” is tiring. But in other countries do they pay in the region of €20,000 when they buy their home, or another €6-7000 in VRT on their cars? We are paying twice for the same services/tax, let them swing and find their 160 million at the top as we say yesterday the top 20% seem to be doing even better in the last few years and are awful quiet lately
The only people I know who have registered are “foreign national” friends of mine.
They are afraid to get involved in the civil disobedience campaign.
It’s all very well for some of us who know the truth about the household charge, but there is an awful lot of people out there who really don’t have a clue what it is about, right down to technical details like how to pay, or if they don’t pay their water could get cut off, or that the new charge will cover bin collections.
dear journal her is my request
there is 2 possibly 3 people using this site to spread sh1te they are the samepeople
youreactedhaha/youbetterpayup are two and Arbitrasure.
It does not take a genius to work this out and when you do some IT work and have contacts in the business and use the correct tools to find IP addresses its quite obvious,are you going to do something about it,because its obvious to all this person person is here just to do one thing– PISS PEOPLE OFF REGARDLESS OF SIDES
Jimbo, you are also spreading ‘shite’ with your bullyboy approach. You called me a fool on several occasions for simply obeying the laws of the land when I commented that I had paid.
There are many opinions here, let us all share our opinions without your aggressive tones.
JImbo
Why are you getting so worked up for? I was only expressing my opinion. I didnt force you or anybody else to reply to my comment. Relax!!!
Jimbo Paranoid or what!! Calm yourself down. Do you have a life beyond posting on here with your friends Reada and susie etc?
I’m with Jimbo because he has a photo of the greatest news anchor the world has ever seen. You stay classy San Diego.
Reada and Susie have more friends than you think. And for good reason.
Typical government wastage once again. What is the point of putting “Reminder Pamphlets” through the letter boxes of people living in Council houses/flats/apartments.
Those of us with that particular privilege are EXEMPT from paying the household charge. Feckin brain cells seem to be in shortage again amongst politicians/councillors. However, even though I am exempt from paying I will still be marching on Saturday in solidarity with those that will not pay.
Good woman Ann, this is the true Irish spirt showing through, I commend you for showing your support :)
Ann I just want to say this now…the more I read from you, the more I love you. (not in a weird stalker way) ;)
Ann
Good woman! My question earlier was, I would love to know where these leaflets and the Irish version of the booklet printed. I would hope it was an Irish printing company and done in the UK like before. I think it was F Fail that did it. I am sure many of them during election campaigns etc. have requested printed outside of Ireland many times.
I didn’t pay the poll tax. I didn’t get fined or jailed. I won’t be paying this one either. I like living in a Republic. Or at least it used to be one. It seems to me that we’re rapidly turning into a bullying dictatorship…
As long as they’re taking €200 a month for USC they won’t be getting an extra cent for household tax
Yes. That damn USC.
It is great to see people paying it. They are law abiding citizens.
Your choice was to troll or to “show affection” to your dog. One option had a headache.
It’s even better to see the majority not paying it.
GET THE BOAT…
Listen I can comment on here if I want. I didnt break the rules for commenting.
They are not law abiding citizens, they are statute abiding citizens. Ireland is a common law jurisdiction with legislative statutes. Statutes are only law if you agree to consent. Well done for those who consented releasing the ownership (not that any of us own anything mortgaged) of the property to the state. A property tax is essentially signing over your property to the state and then renting it from them.
I have not consented, and have no wish to contract with the State for this “service”. No thanks! People really need to look at law and our constitution and learn it. There is no point in trusting ourselves to the judiciary, solicitors barristers and judges. They are a vested interest. Every one of them is a member of the same society, the law society. Is this above suspicion? I for one think not.
When Bertie and Flynn and Wright and Burke and Lowery and Seanie and Fingleton and Dunne and AIB and Anglo and Irish Perm and FAS and Drumme and Quinn and and and I could go on for ever. When these all pay back to us what is due I will gladly pay , but if all these pay what they stole from us we wouldn’t need another tax.
Lets make a HOGAN STAND on this.
Thanks for that accurate info mark. I must remember that for if i’m ever caught speeding, drink driving or the the like. I simply just won’t consent. Never would have thought it was that simple.
@David: here’s an extreme example but I hope you will get the point. Democratically elected government creates Nuremberg laws against jews. Your choice: obey or not. There is a difference between justice and laws.
Good man David. Your sarcasm is pathetically misplaced as if your car is registered and you have a driving license then you have already consented to quite a lot more than you obviously realise. Mark is correct, no matter how inconvenient this may be to your blind conditioning.
@ You better. You may not have broken the Journal’s rules, but there are other unwritten rules, that you should maybe have payed more attention to. Such as, loyalty, trustworthiness, truthfulness, etc. Of course, you are allowed to comment but in doing so, you are also free to show yourself up, for who and what you really are!.
@ club educate, Ironic username indeed. Common law is a system in place for centuries all over the would and it is forever evolving. Have ye ever even heard of the branch of common law called equity. Educate tells me that i can be prosecuted for breaking the law on the roads because i have a drivers licence and my car is registered. No problem. I can cancel my licence and burn my car out in some local park. Then i’ll just take my neighbours car because i like it. So then under yer twisted logic i can then drive as i please and just not consent to the law. Anarchy is what ye are promoting and it is a very sad reflection of ye. What about the naive people that believe the rubbish that ye are spouting?
This government is made up of old school politicians and basically the same as FF in the bad old days, you only have to look at the likes of Hogan and Kenny to see it. Heard on new stalk today that when the deadline on this passes on Saturday and they see that majority haven’t paid they will do a u-turn either by extending the deadline to August or go back to the drawing board. I personally thing If Hogan had any decency he would resign but we all know that’s not going to happen! Hang tough people!
I wonder what “youbetterpayup” will change their user name to on Sunday? I’m guessing “youbettervoteyesinthereferendum”.
Thats a good one :-)
Or “you betterlistentothetroll”
Comment of the day…
Or “imanasshearmeroar”
Why on earth would I do that. People can vote Yes or No if they want to. That is why we live in a democracy. When we go to the polls on Thursday 31st May I’ll be voting Yes.
Contract law is your friend. No contract, no invoice, no payment. It’s that simple folks. When they send you your “fine” just send it back with the words “No Contract – Return To Sender” on the envelop. I bought my house. Paid every duty. Thankfully I don’t owe a penny. That’s how it’s going to stay. I’m not going to pay for the privilege.
Amen brother, wait for those who say this isn’t true. Lawyers, politicians and the like. People are clueless abdicating their knowledge of the law to solicitors, barristers and judges. This household charge is an offer, don’t accept. End of story.
Think your 100% right on this.. I am attempting to base my decision on the legalities of contract law etc.. and I -have not come up with one good reason why it should be paid.. and no one who has paid has actually given me a supportive argument to entice me to pay it.. – fair enough people have paid etc and fair play to them.. but when I ask why – it is just accepted that “we have to”.. just like “we have to” bail out the banks, pay the bondholders, take pay cuts, yadda yadda yadda.. Dead right you are and I am settling in to a nice bit of reading of good old-fashioned law!! :)
How arrogant were the government to think they could bulldoze this tax through?,anyone with any sense could see this was a golden oppurtunity for the ordinary people to show the politicians exactly what we think of them and they still went and did it.
And that one million wont be paying
That one million Bernadine will be one less because of me. Tomorrow I am going to the post office to get my household charge form and pay it by post.
The biggest problem the likes of Greece has is that when a tax is imposed only some of the population pay it and the remainder (usually those who just do not have the money and the very rich) do not or at least pay less than they ought to. The result is that more taxes have to be imposed and therefore the same people that always pay have to pay more. I am going to pay this tax (not because it is fair but) because it is the precursor to a fair tax on property ie a tax on wealth (the very thing the ULA, Socialists and SF say should be taxed). A wealth that, unlike money in deposit accounts, cannot get up and leave this country. Those who are outright refusing to pay any property tax (and I am not including anyone who is saying that this tax is unfair but approve and would pay a fair property tax or, indeed, those who simply cannot pay) are doing the rich in this country a favour and are increasing the eventual tax burden on the poor, the middle class and employment. For these reasons Bernadine, and in particular to decrease the overall tax burden on employment, tomorrow I will be reducing that one million you refer to.
This country has to pay for many things and that money has to come from tax or borrowing. If you do not pay this tax then someone has to pay and if we unilaterally refuse to repay our loans as a country we will not get the money through borrowing or if we do it will be at a much higher rate than we are currently paying. The government should negotiate our repayments to foreign banks but must also widen the tax base so as to tax wealth.
@Robert: the bankers are grateful for your contribution.
Robert maybe we should have refused to pay the bond holders? The only reason this tax has come in is because of the money we paid the bond holders. It’s not to improve the lot of the Irish it’s to fill the gap from what we paid to bond holders. As for your last point euro 100 flat charge is widening the tax base to tax the wealthy do you really believe that?
Jesus Robert, that comment sucked. Do you really think the tax they eventually replace this charge with will be more ‘equitable?’ it will be a lot more than a hundred euros even if the rich pay thousands it still won’t be fair. The top earners in this country managed to apparently improve their wealth by 8% during recession while the rest saw our disposable income contract by almost a quarter. This all occurred while we were being ‘obedient.’ we must finally make a stand. Those who have not yet paid must stay strong. Hold The Line!
skeolawn: the bankers will be paid (or not paid) regardless of I obeying or not obeying the tax laws of this country. The payment of the bankers depends on whatever deal the government and our negotiators succeed in doing with the IMF etc (or I guess this country just running out of liquidity – which may be your argument – in which case many more people will also not be paid). I trust (for the moment) that the government are and will do their best for the Irish electorate in regard to negotiations on funding and repayments of loans. Of course, I am watching and waiting for the outcome to this and will be submitting my opinion on the outcome in a ballot box during the next general election. Until then I will keep reminding politicians that I expect them to succeed and if they do not do a good job I may put my vote elsewhere. However, I will be keeping my powder dry for the next few years and will allow them scope at home so that they have as good a negotiating hand abroad. (PS My vote is also dependant on the delivery of money-follows-the-patient in the healthcare system and in general sensible implementation of policies – which in the case of the implementation of this household tax would not be very positive.)
Kerry Blake – my point about widening the tax base does not refer to the 100 euro charge as it now stands but on a future tax on property that is dependant on the size of that property. I expect such a tax to be much larger than 100 euro on large properties and slightly more (ie up to 300 euro) on a home that would have cost 300,000 euro in 2005. Of course the 100 euro itself does not penalise the wealthy (it does exactly the opposite). However, its facilitating of the production of a register of residential property will allow the implementation of future property taxes which will place a greater tax burden on the rich (and, by extension, obstruction of that register is benefiting the rich). Such future taxes would be payable (by definition) regardless of the householders residence and since the house can not grow legs and move country in the way that most other assets of the rich and wealthy can, it would therefore be a very sustainable tax.
Ailís McKernan – Please continue making a stand, and even though I will not be supporting your views or your protest, I will support your right to protest. However, I would suggest that not paying this tax is not the way to get a favourable outcome for yourself (unless you own a mansion) and that protesting and reminding politicians that you are part of the electorate is the way; Protest the taxes implementation and argue about its fairness – but not paying it now only puts off paying it in the future. With regard to it been more than 100 euro in the future, I do not see your point. Someone has to pay for services in this country and taxing the middle and lower earners more is not fair. A tax on property is much fairer than a tax on income. Of course those who earn more should pay more tax (and we should not have cases – as has and is still happening – where people who earn more than 100,000 pay a lower percentage than people who earn 50,000 or less etc) but also those who own property in Ireland should also pay tax. At the moment we have the crazy situation that someone earning half a million a year around the world can own a cottage in the Isle of Man where he/she pays little or no tax and claims residency and a two million euro house in the middle of Dublin (you know for parties etc) and pays zero in taxes to Irish State (other than VAT etc) but still benefits from all the services.
David, they are also introducing a tax on comment length. Do you have another 100 euros?
Looks like less than 50% will have paid by the 31st. I guess that means we will have less than 50% of the spending on civic amenities. No bother so for us country folk, our street lights and libraries and parks will continue to leave us in the dark unread and with nowhere to walk the dog!!!! True democracy in action!!!
In 1977 we replaced rates with PRSI to pay for services. Most of those services have been privatised since. Does the household charge mean the end of PRSI? I think not
Uh good idea Thomas. Areas where the highest percentage have paid should receive the most funding. Thanks for that!
Yesterday I got a reminder about the household charge, so I just put it in an envelope with a 55 cent stamp, and sent it to Phil Hogan’s home in Kilkenny and wrote on the reminder, in capitals I AM NOT PAYING THIS, AND YOU CAN STICK IT UP YOUR ASS! I would only pay it if the politicians in the mahon tribunals were made to pay, all the ministers in the FG/labour parties, cut their wages, and SF too and then I would think it was fair that way. Why don’t they make Enya pay some tax, as she seems to be complaining all the time about being stalked every, time she comes on the late late show. I would rather donate to the campaign, and help myself and others if we get taken to court, than register, and give alot of my details(, and I wouldn’t give them anyway) to a whole load of goverment authorities. I am one of the 1 million people who will never pay this unjust charge, and I am listening to people on radio and television for the charge, but that doesn’t change my mind or frighten me, because I am definitely not paying it, as I will be seriously out of pocket if I do. I am on the dole, and don’t have an extra income, like those ministers.
I replied to your comment but my response was posted under the wrong comment (if you want to read it just scroll down a bit). Whats his address
By the time Saturday comes Phil Hogan will have enough money collected to pay the overtime incurred to pay the staff who will work in local council officeson saturday waiting for the 1million householders to rush in and pay this charge……I heard Phil Hogan brag on radio he paid his €100 in January, i see his circumstances have now changed compared to when in opposition and would not take a 10% cut in his salary.
Brave decision to buck the prevailing trend, @david . You may have a point about FF, but that doesn’t make this tax morally acceptable. Irish homeowners are being punished enough with unsustainable mortgage payments for the ‘folly’ of buying a home during the Tiger years. Now we are being punished again with a tax on that home. Next year, the government will put an arbitrary price on your house and charge you God-knows-what for that three-bed millstone around your neck.
This not about paying for public services. We already do, through excessive parking charges and private bin collections. This is about making Ireland look like the Model Child of Europe.
Don’t pay this tax. There’s a huge difference between being governed and being ruled.
@ Liam & Jimbo
Liam, no chance!!!!
Jimbo, brilliant! Stay strong!
Does anyone know how many of the people that have registered are public sector workers that had to register so they wouldn’t loose there jobs?
Loose our jobs?? Where is that in the statute?
What are you talking about?! I’m a public sector worker & I haven’t paid. Neither have most of my colleagues. None of us can afford to but we wouldn’t even if we could.
@Sara sorry I worded that wrong I should have asked how many public sector workers have registered in fear of losing there jobs, working for the government and all.
Daffy – u can’t loose your P.S. job coz u don’t pay the charge. Simples !!
Idea why dont we all follow the actions of Sasha and everyone that refuses to pay this charge put the reminder in the post and send back to Phils home address…That would be so ironic as an post vans arriving at his house with black bags been delivered and then he can use the €100 household charge he paid to have the refuse collection take the bags away….
Stay strong,they cant take us all to court
Well from what I gather this is not phrased as a tax? That is why they call it a ‘charge’ .. they cannot put this through as a tax for several reasons but I know one of them is that it actually cannot be put through as a tax as it doesn’t reach the criteria on the principles of taxation (equity, efficiency and I think simplicity).. so if it is not a tax do we have to pay?.. if it is still thought of as a ‘charge’ – is that not the government forcing people into contractual obligations (contract law says that to be coerced into a contract frustrates it) – so surely if we do not sign up to it then we have no contractual obligation.. I have a few bug bears about it – mainly the one I mentioned above but also how does a householder (ie a 2bedroom semi-detached) have to pay the same charge as someone in a detached 4/5 bedroom house? it doesn’t make sense at all and I am urging my mother not to pay until we can get that clarified.. so if anyone knows anything that can answer these – please tell me!
The deadline is three days away, then we will find out exactly (deadline probably moved to save face) but non payment will incure a tiny fee I think €10 -€40. Your fear is justified given the scare tactics now well known to the likes of hogan. Please I assure you not to worry or panic. The world will still turn when 1million people refuse this unjust ‘charge’. Please read all comments and find out all the information you require before paying. Once you pay you give permission to be charged now and later at a higher cost. Take time to fully understand the position you, your mom and 1million people are in this together. Stay strong :D
I’m with you up until you mention that someone who owns a 2/3 bed semi shouldn’t have to pay the same as those living in 4/5 bedroom detached. I grew up in Ballymun, my mam and dad bought their house from Dublin Corporation. Nineteen years ago they decided to move and they were quite shocked at what they found – and it was this, the average 3 bed semi in a Dublin suburb was 90,000. My sister talked them into looking further a field and they eventually bought a 4 bed detached for 70,000 in Clane, Co. Kildare. The point I am trying to make here is that when the property tax is introduced next year you can be guartanteed that the tax will be based on square footage and not on site valuation.
My mam worked from the age of 14 and she passed away last year at the age of 65 – 3 months before she would have recieved her Old Age pension- she paid her taxes all her life and she tried her best to stay with us until she got her first payment and her free bus-pass. She never recieved 1 red cent from the government,
@Anne Reddin.. I agree with what you say.. I just used the analogy to point out the fact that the government really haven’t looked at this as one of the principles of taxation (if this is what it is) is equity.. and if this was followed it would not be a €100 blanket fee for all.. I wasn’t reflecting as such on what people earn.. – just that for example we are taxed on wages as a percentage of our wage… our car tax is based on engine size of car.. (despite hating having to pay tax) they are as such equitable.. I was just trying to point out for those calling it a tax that it cannot be one until it is apportioned correctly.. and I do not think if they do go ahead and implement a forced tax that house-size should only be looked at.. what people can afford to pay (in this climate) is more the case..
@stevejackman your choice to pay not mine.
What that makes me is a man that will fight for my rights and take no crap and what it makes you is a coward
Like I said, you are the quintessential bully who does not have the itellectual stamina to have a reasoned discussion about any topic.
If you don’t want to pay then knock yourself out however to call those who do want to pay ‘cowards’ is pathetic.
I have family who are public servants and due to the nature of their role if they get a court conviction they lose their job, hence they cannot risk not paying the charge, hence they are making a rational choice to ensure their families have food, far from being cowardly they are making the hard decisions
Cowardice can always be rationalised. That’s the nature of cowardice.
@vocaoutrage so if they get caught speeding and are taken too court they lose their job, or if they don’t pay a utility bill and are taken to court they lose their job? I somehow doubt it. same principle applies too hhc. If they get a criminal conviction they lose their job…thats the difference.
A friend of mine paid this two months ago & on Monday he received a final notice to pay!! He regrets paying now & is suitably unimpressed ! However it simply highlights the calibre of people, lack of systems & low standards being employed to implement this unjust regressive tax. I don’t believe Phil has 57 sacks as I very much doubt he has the smarts to count all the way to that lofty number!! Good on all the non payers – not long now before the shit really hits the fan for philthy hogan!
Problem is, if they don’t get 100 lids from us through this charge, they will nail us either through PAYE or another stealth tax. I wonder could we hijack one of the canary islands and start a new country for ourselves. There’d be a fairly long non admittance list!
Sure would it not be handier to ship the few we don’t want off somewhere else and we could all stay where we are. Collect 99% tax from them on the way out and we’d clear our debt in no time!!
Like it or not (and believe me, I don’t) it’s a legal tax which is enforceable and can no more be avoided than TV licence, dog licence, car tax etc. I’ve paid mine and really can’t see why people think they are above the law and have the arrogance to mock us who have made the payment. Like I said, I’m not in favour of more taxes but this levy will be be commonplace in future.
You made your choice i don’t disrespect for your choice,but this is my way to protest what has been done to my family and i for the last three years.It won’t cost you a cent so don’t worry about it.
sorry eamonn,
commonplace in the future?
remains to be seen.
It might be legal, but it is not lawful, that is the most important point. Learn more about the law of commerce. Don’t take my word for it. Find out for yourself.
Good man, the bankers will thank you while I mock your sheeplike tendencies.
It doesn’t really matter whether you pay now or not. The Govt will attack income tax next year if we don’t pay now. One way or another they will get their money. So keeping up the fight for €100 is just ridiculous.
Defeatist. What would it take I wonder? The world is marvelling at the Irish ability to take on punishment, even while our children are all emigrating. What kind of country are we building?
I have found an envelope and I have addressed it to
Phill (the black sacks) Hogan TD
Co. Kilkenny
On the back of the envelope I have written – When asked in 2009 if you would take a 10% cut in your very large salary your response was and I quote “my personal circumstances dont allow that at the moment”. Well guess what, mine dont allow me to pay 100euros to the Troika. Heres your reminder back and you can sick it in one of the 57 black slacks you speak of.
I’m hoping that many more will do the same.
Jim Higgins was slightly put out when he heard his relative was collecting the money for the Goverment but dont worry Jim your not your brothers keeper.Im with you Im having my Trial in Irish, Good on Bernard Dunne and that Brod program on the TV.
What the hell has having your trial in Irish got to do with not paying the household charge???
wake up u shortsighted fool, this is about EVERY household sticking together & not paying the charge, not just the Irish householder!!!
Mr. Mills Learn the law of this country Im going to have my court case in Irish if it gets that far you Idiot fool, So behave yourself.
@stevejackman currently the nonpayers outways the ones who have 3fold.
There is no threat..
Then leave out the personal attacks.
Well said Steve
Just a question as I am confused with parts of this, my mum is the householder and so far we have her convinced not to pay the charge (she is also a special needs teacher – so she is getting hit every way!) but if the charge isn’t paid it goes to court…. right? I am wondering about all the houses that are vacant because the owners live and work in the U.K. and beyond – being from Mayo I see a lot of these houses that people just come home for the summer and Christmas to.. How do they get brought to court if they are not in the jurisdiction to summons them? So is it a case that the people already here picking up the tab for the mismanagement of the country also pick up the tab for this household charge? I am so confused as to what they can possibly do if it is not paid!!
Not much to over 1millikn people it will take decades!! Don’t panic don’t pay stay strong and fair play for looking out for your moms best interest. Well done :)
Don’t know your mum’s position but tax if it holds raise to 146 if not paid within 12 months.Bringing people to court will be one of the last things they will do.They do not want to make a martyr of anyone.
Don,t worry, nobody will go to jail, there is a late payment penalty system. They are only using jail to scare people into paying.
@Norman – Oh dear my mums position! She was a special needs assistant for over 20years and went to the top of the scale salary wise, she paid out of her own pocket to go and qualify as a teacher, she eventually got a teaching job about 5 years ago.. and she is currently on way less than she was as a special needs assistant, and is rightly fucked cos she bought back her pension years for her teachers pension and is still too young to take the early retirement package so god knows where her pension will be when she eventually does retire – she did everything by the book and I am sick of watching govt departments negotiate routes out to things to suit themselves.. so I am kinda a bit pissed that she is getting screwed left right and centre!!! – it isn’t even the amount of it.. it is the principle of it and where it leads to €100 this year…what will it be next year.. :) I am quite strong on her not paying it in that I would willingly go to jail (even though I know they won’t be sending people)
@Anne all i can say is, this is more than likely the only protest your mum can engage in that the government might take notice of.Just remember there is thousands protesting aswell safety in numbers.
Anne-Marie – I will be accused on this site of threatening you, but it is not my intention. No one can predict the future but the bill associated with this charge states that the charge will be applied to the house. If there ever will be a day in court it will be years from now, until then your mum will just get reminders that she is in arrears and warnings that there are penalties and interest being applied on top of the original charge. Your mum therefore does not have to pay the charge today or tomorrow but the longer she leaves the bigger the cost of payment will be. If, in the future, your mum wants to give the house to you or one of your siblings the charge and the penalties will then have to be paid before the ownership of the house will pass. The same would apply if the house was ever to be sold to someone outside your family so I guess that answers your question too with regard to people who have moved abroad. In conclusion, for the moment not paying the charge is no big deal (it is just an unpaid bill with a clear list of penalties with respect to the length of time it is not paid) but into the future the charge will eventually have to be paid and the longer it is left the higher the penalties will be. (PS So that you are clear where I am coming from – I paid the charge today and my overall views are posted above.)
@Anthony Lynch – I certainly wouldn’t see your comment as a threat.. I wanted an opinion from anyone.. and to be fair you are the first person that has paid that has given me a reason to think more about it.. I am not happy with this household charge – not by a longshot.. because it seems that the govt just slapped it on people without planning it correctly and really looking at the whole picture and implications of their actions.. It smells more of desperation on their part than a well thought out, long term beneficial move for the country.. I am still swaying towards non -payment at the moment..as I do not believe this charge to be established equitably and I think the bullish way it has been pushed upon people is also wrong.. they are our employees in government and I think they owe us to be wholly transparent with every aspect to this and also to review it according to peoples circumstances etc… The more money the govt is taking off the people – the less money in circulation in the economy from peoples disposable incomes, this will drive the cost of doing business up and in turn raise our costs of living whilst making Ireland less and less competitive.. I am trying to look at it from every angle Robert so I really do appreciate your response… and thank you
@Robert Lynch… I apologise for calling you Anthony! – it is my friends name and I did so without even thinking!! – sorry!
Anne-Marie, I hope your friend isn’t insulted :)
just going through some of the profiles here, why do I have the feeling about 80% of the people on here do not own there own properties so therefore will not either have to register or pay the household tax
Well done to both Sinn Fein and the ULA , You have a superb campaign going it is just such a pity that the member’s have not the Balls to own up to there Alliance when posting on here or on politics.ie
jerry,
bleedin stalker!
sure i get nosey on the odd occasion
and have a goo at someones profile,
but you!
checked everyone out.
my my, we are a busy little bee.
so, 80%, eh?
Start puttin names to those figures jerry me lad,
ya know, demonstrate those balls of yours
or do be quiet
Come again? I don’t get the alligence bit. For me anyway, (I don’t like to presume 80% of anything) don’t hold any political party alligence. And what’s this politics.ie? A shameless plug to a website where you are king!? What’s any of this got to do with the €100 ‘charge’.
@Jerry first of all everyone has to register, after that they get a waiver if entitled to one.Second don’t you know profiling is wrong plus i think 80% of what you said is BS.
Mr Slattery or may I call you Jerry,
Stay in your delusional little rut, we are not all extreme right or left wing followers, just plain people of Ireland that see an injustice happening.
As stated above Jerry, I have the privilege of living in a Council flat in Dublins inner city and I am exempt from paying this “CHARGE” (its not a tax). However I will be out marching on Saturday in solidarity with those that are being ordered to pay aswell as for my dad who is a pensioner and for my mother who, if she was still on this earth, would under no circumstances have paid this charge. As for my political leanings – I am proud to say that I have NEVER given either Fine Gael or Labour a single vote. In my younger years I voted FF but then I got older and wiser and I was not responsible for their last 3 outings. My votes go to independents who I see working to make a difference in my community.
Well done jerry. Think you touched a nerve there!!!!!
I am none of the above…ula, sf ect, and I won’t be paying. Nor will the majority of my friends and they are not supporters of any particular party either. If, however, you are in a govt party then the inability to see that this is civil disobedience across all sectors of society is going to bite you severely on the butt come sat.
Martin I’m with you, return to sender , ie. mr hogan, saying, NO thanks, we have had enough!
My house is in joint names, which of us owes the household charge Phil?
“The Government has said it expects a last-minute rush before the deadline for payment on Saturday.”
Sure, when have the government ever been wrong before? :D
where did my comment go? ‘dont register, don’t pay, don’t panic.
@ Ann Reddin – I’m gonna start referring to him as Phill the black sacks Hogan – magic
i rent an apartment and don’t have to worry about this household charge but i use parks, libraries, street lighting etc so why should someone else have to pay for my usage… fair play to every homeowner/in the process of paying for their home-owner for not registering & not paying this unfair charge. disgusted with the arrogance & bullyboy tactics of this out of touch government. will be at march this saturday in solidarity to all.
@stevejackman well if its not cowards what is it then?.
And what is itellectual is that a new word for denial?
Oh and stamina,ive plenty of that…
Im still here fighting you went and paid hence you lack any stamina.
I have the same right to pay as you have the right not to pay. You (and others) appear to see those who have paid as threats to the ‘don’t pay’ campaign which is wrong. I can do what I like so please focus on yourself and not attack those who have a different opinion to you.
Nope, just threats to the gene pool.
Will you ever give the current Government a break. Fianna Fail have been in power more times than any other political party in this country. They have done a lot of damage to this country. Fine Gael and Labour are trying to get things back to normal.
It doesnt happen overnight. Some of you people expect things to be back to normal Just like that. It doesnt work like that.
These austerity budgets have to happen because we are in the IMF/EU bailout programme. We will be out of the programme in 2014. Thats if we dont need another bailout
I support the Irish Government 100%.
Well SASHA, I got my reminder today and I’m down to the post office tomorrow to collect my SW invalidity pension and I’m gonna buy a pre – stamped envelope and do the very same thing. Whats his address or can I just put Phill the black bags Hogan
Co. Kilkenny
as the address??
Problem is this is not the platform they got elected for
Even if you believe it should be paid( I DON’T) your best to make a stand here and now as there will be more coming down the track. Eventually they will make up a charge you don’t like and our spirits and unity could be well and truly destroyed.
Kennys comments on the news yesterday were nothing but condescending! DON’T PAY!
‘Household’ Charge is a misnomer. What they are trying to inflict on us is a house owner charge. To me a household charge, if intended to pay for local council services like they say, would be payable by each household, regardless of ownership. Living in a rented house, I’d still be using public services. Just another example if the lack of joined up thinking. Not paying, not panicking and waiting patiently for the backtracking and excuses to start.
Hmm think theirs some gremlins in the machine tonight , thats twice now I have replied to a comment and it has ended up under the wrong comment??
Let’s face it. Everyone held out for a while and now that the deadline is approaching almost everyone is caving and registering. A petty protest that resulted in nothing more than a few politicians making a few extra comments in the media. The fewer that pay, the more they can be made an example of. To make a real point there needs to be more people not paying than there are paying. It’s looking like that won’t happen. Fizzle more than a bang
Let’s face it. You paid, didn’t you?
Almost everyone is caving and registering !! Based on what Mark – a feeling! You go ahead and cave in all you like but the majority aren’t paying. The only thing fizzling out is hogans daft plan & support for his hair brained scheme !!
Didn’t pay, didn’t register. No intention of it
How about you Bryan? You didn’t say if you paid or not. Talk is cheap… or are you afraid to go on the record?
Well then, don’t panic. If the trend continues then at least a million households will not pay.
I hope so Skeolawn. I really do. A line in the sand is only good as long as its not crossed. Many are but like you said, if the majority stays with the unpaid then the message will have been delivered loud and clear.
Mark – take a guess! Of course I haven’t paid nor will I. Talk is cheap – lol! I’m guessing that understanding the patently obvious is not your forte!
@ All aboutdavey
Good for you! Horrible, no personality, arrogant ass, that’s what he is and Kenny is a condescending little ass also. Just listen to him when he speaks of the electorate. No respect at all for anyone. He speaks of us as fools and idiots, obviously has not used those words but take a minute and listen to him on yesterday’s news.
When asked to take a pay cut from his €110,000 salary, Phil Hogan said ..”"No. My personal circumstances don’t allow that at the moment,”
Well Phil, i can’t pay the household fine as ‘My personal circumstances don’t allow that at the moment’ either.
KEEP UP THE PEACEFUL PROTEST OF NOT PAYING THE HOUSEHOLD FINE….
I’ll piss in my ear before I’ll pay it
Jog on Hogan.
Minister O Dowd has been on the radio and the television claiming that local services will stop unless we get the money from the household charge, where else will it come from he said, we cant keep borrowing he said. Well i have a suggestion how about giving two fingers to the bondholders that are getting 3.1 billion euros the day of the deadline for the household charge and putting that money into local services????????? They are great at finding money for that, borrowed or unborrowed but cant find money for the benefit of the people they are supposed to be serving…
@Eamonn
Just because Shatter/Hogan one day decided to say it’s law doesn’t mean we can’t discuss and argue the reasoning behind it! If he decided tomorrow that you, I, can’t drive our children to school if it’s less than 1klm or one is not allowed to walk on the left hand side of the path any more do you say ok, grand. But …. you live in the middle of the country, no buses, no car, dark, rain?
Democracy to me, is to be able to sit down with the tax payer/electorate and discuss it. To me, this whole thing with the EUR100 is a dictatorship. No thought, no discussion, nothing.
If they give me my stamp duty back, I will pay it, otherwise its double taxation.
well said. in every interview the ministers are giving they mention the fact that every other country has a household charge but (to the best of my knowledge) every other or most other european countries dont pay stamp duty?! invalidated argument!!!!
Also, the argument reminds me of a six year old arguing that they should be allowed to stay up past their bedtime because little Johnny down the road is allowed to, so there.
What’s the money going to be spent on, and why is that a good thing for Irish taxpayers?
The claims on the “final notice” they sent are blatant lies.
What happens when over 50% have paid which I reckon will have happened by the deadline??? Then the dynamic changes. The majority will have paid thus the whole view will alter. People who have paid will view the ones that have not as spongers. Their anger will quickly turn from the Goverment to the ones that have paid. This will happen so be ready…… I have paid by the way.
@Declan
Well, that’s your choice and your opinion. But my opinion must also be respected. I hope you won’t mind paying anything from EUR400 – EUR1000 if not more depending on your circumstances next year. It’s too late then to give out and fight your corner. By registering and paying now, you are accepting liability and also, not sure if there was small print on that form stating that this fee could change in the future?
Good luck with that.
What Jack Lynch gave us Enda can’t take away. No to charges. No to rates. A place to live is not a luxury. Who cares if they clock up additional charges, I won’t be selling my house anyway. Let the rich pay.
The summary under the picture says 136 comments but only 9 are displayed! What’s going on with displaying only 9 of 136 comments?
I’ve paid, months ago. Thanks Skeolawn for the private message (and the lack of ability to directly reply) but I really don’t see anyone mocking me for my, as you call it, “sheeplike tendencies”. Tax is tax and no one gets mocked for paying it. To be honest I’ve more important things in my life than blogging every day about a petty 100 euro levy. FYI, I am a banker so do I mock myself?
Fair play Eamon. I have paid also. The mocking etc… is par for course on this site. There are a few who are on constantly whinging and moaning and spitting hatred….journal.ie is like a full time job for them….kinda sad really…
declan cotter, if you dont like the ” whinging and moaning” on the site then dont use it. Oh btw for someone who says its kinda sad that it seems like journal.ie is some peoples lives you are on it enough yourself!!
let’s see how petty it is next year when the new charge replacing the €100 is between 3 an 6 times the amount.
There was no private message, it’s up above. You reply by hitting the reply button.
Still mocking your choices btw, especially now you’ve declared your shame as a banker.
The bully boy tactics of Kenny and Hogan are a sure sign of their desperation. They KNOW it is a statute and legally unenforceable if people don’t pay. Hopefully when they have abandoned this nonsense those silly enough to register can bring a class action lawsuit against the government on the grounds that they were coerced into signing under threat of reprisals.
that should read – black sacks, and not black slacks
have your say