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In our Q&A: Eighth Amendment Referendum series, we are answering questions our readers have submitted in relation to the upcoming vote on 25 May.
THE QUESTION
A number of people have asked a version of these questions. Here are some of those queries:
THE ANSWER
It’s currently illegal to take abortion pills in Ireland.
The Eighth Amendment, or Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution, states that the right to life of the unborn is equal to the life of the mother, which prevents abortion in Ireland.
To vindicate and protect that right to life, legislation – the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013 – outlaws abortion except in very specific, exceptional circumstances.
Section 22 of the Act says it shall be an offence to intentionally destroy unborn human life. The maximum sentence if convicted is 14 years imprisonment.
Subsequent amendments to the Constitution, however, made it legal for Irish women to travel abroad for an abortion or to seek information about the termination of a pregnancy.
If there is a ‘Yes’ vote on Friday, which would repeal the Eighth Amendment, legislators in the Oireachtas would be allowed to change the laws which regulate the termination of pregnancy.
The legislation proposed, if passed, would see abortion without restriction allowed up to 12 weeks of pregnancy. Medical abortions, or terminations of pregnancies through taking abortion pills, would be the main way to terminate pregnancies within that 12-week timeframe.
About the abortion pill
Medical abortion involves taking two pills – mifepristone and misoprostol. The first pill disrupts the pregnancy, and the second causes the uterus to contract and expel its contents in a similar way to a miscarriage.
It’s estimated that around five Irish women request an abortion pill everyday from telemedicine websites; with a further two women from Northern Ireland requesting the same.
Minister for Health Simon Harris said that his department estimates around three women a day in Ireland take abortion pills.
When asked at a briefing last week about what explained the discrepancy in figures, Dr Rebecca Gomperts of telemedicine service Women on Web said that women might request an abortion pill, but could decide at a later stage to continue with the pregnancy.
“The fact that the option of getting an abortion is there for women, helps stop the panic and helps them make a decision,” she said.
What is also interesting is that the data shows quite a lot of women decide not to get an abortion, because actually for them it was such a relief that they had the medicine they could start to really think about whether they wanted to have an abortion or not.
Women on Web can’t say that a woman has had an abortion just because the pills were sent out.
Last week, Renua expressed doubt over the number of abortion pills in Ireland, and asked for “proof of exactly how many pills are coming into the country”.
Because abortion pills are illegal in Ireland, there is no way of getting an exact figure on how many are being taken by women each year. Estimates are based on the number of pills sent out by telemedicine websites like Women on Web, drugs seizures made by Irish authorities, and some studies.
Research by Dr Abigail Aiken (more on this later in the article) showed that requests to Women on Web have tripled between 2010 and 2016. That figure that has been peer-reviewed and published in both the British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, and the British Medical Journal.
In relation to claims that requests to Women Help Women have increased by 190%, it’s difficult to prove or disprove those exact figures, but it’s widely regarded that requests for abortion pills are increasing.
At the Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment, Judge Mary Laffoy quoted research from the HSE which shows that there are “increasing numbers of women who are making contact with online abortion pill providers”.
It’s thought that the increase in abortion pill requests is due to increased awareness of them as an option, as it’s also coincided with a drop in the number of women flying abroad to access an abortion.
According to the UK Department of Health’s figures, the number of women giving Irish addresses at abortion clinics has decreased from 6,673 in 2001 to 3,265 in 2016 – a decline of 51%.
In the past 10 years, more 6,000 abortion pills have been seized by Irish authorities, according to the Health Products Regulatory Authority.
Dr Abigail Aiken, an Assistant Professor of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin, conducted research into the use of abortion pills through telemedicine websites. During her research, she asked 1,000 women about their experiences, including interviews with 40 Irish women.
Her research indicated that of those who ordered abortion pills, 63% were mothers, and the majority of women were in their 30s.
Some of those women reported going to extreme lengths to end a pregnancy, her research indicated; some try herbal remedies, others “drink alcohol” or “ask to be punched in the stomach”.
Safety
The issue of safety of abortion pills has been raised a number of times during the referendum campaign and before it.
According to Positive Options, the side-effects of abortion tablets may include excessive bleeding, pain, collapse, diarrhoea and shortness of breath.
The site cautions the dangers of ordering abortion pills online: “There is no way of knowing what these products actually contain and what the side effects might be for her.”
Dr Gomperts said that millions of women have used this medicine, and misoprostol is listed on the World Health Organisation’s list of Essential Medicines.
“It has exactly the same health effects as a miscarriage, Miscarriages are very common and as with a miscarriage complications are extremely rare,” she said.
If you compare the safety of early abortion to the safety of giving birth, actually an early abortion is much safer for a woman than continuing the pregnancy. The mortality of an early medical abortion is less than one in half a million, and is safer than using viagra or using penicillin. It’s actually safer than driving a car.
She said that in some cases there are conditions which mean that taking abortion pills isn’t safe, but these are extremely rare.
Dr Aiken’s research indicated that almost 95% (947 women) reported that taking a combination of mifepristone and misoprostol ended their pregnancy, 0.7% required a blood transfusion, 2.6% required antibiotics, and overall 9.3% experienced symptoms potentially requiring medical attention. There were no deaths.
Cost
It’s not certain how pregnancy termination services would cost in the event of a ‘Yes’ vote (we had a look at the options in this piece). Dr Ronald Johnson of the World Health Organisation told the Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment:
“I cannot answer the question about costs. The cost of an abortion varies across the world from being free to $1,000. Women in New Zealand and the United Kingdom receive a free service. The cost of an illegal abortion can be astronomical.”
He added: “Misoprostol is a generic drug and very inexpensive, the price is cents per tablet. Mifepristone is now also very inexpensive. It can be sourced in bulk for approximately $3.50 per tablet (€2.97).”
It’s free to order abortion pills from not-for-profit websites like Women on Web, but they ask for a donation fee of €70-€90 (or whatever the woman can afford).
Legality
Speaking to TheJournal.ie, the chair of the Referendum Commission Justice Isobel Kennedy answered some of the questions people had around the legality of taking an abortion pill.
“Within the Protection of Life during Pregnancy Act 2013, there is a provision which is Section 22 of that Act, and that says that it is the intentional destruction of unborn human life is a criminal offence.
That particular offence carries a maximum penalty of 14 years imprisonment or a fine or both. The duration of the prison sentence must not exceed 14 years of course a lesser sentence may be imposed by the court.
When asked in the event of a ‘No’ vote could the government decriminalise that Act, Kennedy said that the government currently has an obligation to defend the life of the unborn if taken.
“…And one of the ways of doing that is by way of a criminal sanction. And it is the duty of the State to vindicate and to defend a Constitutional right.
So we the Referendum Commission believe it is unlikely that it will be removed from the Statute Books because of the content of Article 40.3.3.
Kennedy also told Morning Ireland previously that if there’s a ‘No’ vote on Friday, the criminal offence would be for intentionally ending an unborn human life, and is separate to the offence of murder.
“It is not an offence to fail to report someone taking an abortion pill, but it is an offence to intentionally destroy unborn human life. So if a person were charged with that offence, and were convicted of that offence, that person would then have a criminal conviction.”
If you have another question, please send it to referendum@thejournal.ie
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The fact they are illegal and a women can get 14 years for taking one makes them a whole lot more dangerous. If there are complications, they are less likely to seek help. Also, as they are illegal, there is no regulation on what’s in them. There is a big tragedy headed our way with these pills taken without proper support and regulation unless the Eighth is repealed.
@James O’Nolan: ” here is a big tragedy headed our way with these pills taken without proper support and regulation unless the Eighth is repealed.”
For those who see two lives in a pregnancy it is a greater tragedy that life is being ended for no reason.
@Gkell1: yep
@Gkell1:
The Peadar Toibin lad couldn’t answer the straight and simple question last night and I doubt you will either but let’s try again.
Do you think that a young and suicidle teenage r@pe victim should be made to carry a r@pist baby full term?
Yes or No? If yes please suggest alternatives.
@Gkell1: no one has ever been prosecuted for taking pills and to my knowledge no one died as a result from taking pills either so this is scaremongering at its best
@Gkell1: I’m talking about a life being ended for no reason, a real fully formed human life. You’re talking about the potential for human life being ended which is also a tragedy, but not on the scale of someone’s sister, daughter, friend, girlfriend or wife dying. And nobody ever has an abortion without, to their mind at least, a good reason.
@Joe Mc: No one has been prosecuted yet. That is not to say no one ever will.
Do you trust all politicians to never enforce the law?
@Gkell1: There is never no reason don’t assume anything.
@Joe Mc: except the little human of course
@Joe Mc: So, hang on, you approve of abortion by a pill? And women should not be locked up for it? Just vote yes then.
@Joe Mc:
Same question to you. Do you agree with forcing all r@pe victims to give birth to their attackers babies?
@James O’Nolan: “I’m talking about a life being ended for no reason, a real fully formed human life.”
It happened within the last week that the lives of two teenage girls were ended for no reason . Nobody has an issue with compassionate reasons where one or both lives in pregnancy are in difficulty but the 12 week/no reason proposal is strictly a law and order issue. The people who want blanket coverage of the law from having their life ended suddenly want an entitlement to end the life of a developing child for no reason. People can’t have it both ways – the law is either a protector of all life on this island or it is a vehicle for entitlement groups representing advantages of one section of society over all citizens.
People may not have learned that the law has its limits so ending the life of a developing child for no reason is an entitlement or right the law cannot grant.
@Celtic_Horizon: “There is never no reason don’t assume anything.”
Okay, in a 5 week window from 7 weeks to 12 weeks, the reason can be for the crime of being the wrong gender.
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/health/10birth.html?_r=1
Once gender of boy/girl or son/daughter is established under two months it is no longer possible to dehumanise that developing boy or girl but people who see two lives in a pregnancy see that anyway. The protection of the law extends to all boys and girls in the womb or outside it.
This is the 21st century so positive medical innovations are bound to arise that make it possible not to become pregnant so why wreck law and order for something which can be dealt with medically in future ?.
@Gkell1: So you think the murder of a teenage girl is an equal tragedy to the termination of a 12 week old foetus with no brain activity? Do you know how offensive that is to teenage girls, their families and basically every moral human being?
@Gkell1:are you prepared to give up all your ‘human rights’ to your bodily autonomy for ‘someone’ that you don’t even know …in the knowledge that that could have devastating effects on on your life ? Yes or No?
@James O’Nolan: “So you think the murder of a teenage girl is an equal tragedy to the termination of a 12 week old foetus with no brain activity?”
You cannot hop from compassionate issues to willful intent to end life for no reason and I am not chasing you in circles.
A society either wants the law to protect the life of all citizens from having their lives ended for no reason or it wants to diminish that inviolate principle by granting the ending of life for no reason as an entitlement or right.
Wise up and realise that all citizens need the law as a protector of life more than they need a 12 week/no reason disaster that is and never will be an entitlement or a right. Citizens either want their lives protected by the law or they don’t .
@Gkell1:An embryo is not a citizen.Never has been.Never will be
@Gkell1:
@ Joe Mc
Whenever you’re ready there lads. Remember ignorance is not an answer- let alone a solution.
@Francis Mc Carthy: “are you prepared to give up all your ‘human rights’ to your bodily autonomy”
Anarchy is not about throwing stones on the street by vandals, it is a principle that bodily autonomy is above the law and political constructs. Law and order provides a passive influence on citizens who are productive and creative but the law is a hammer for those who would end life of another in society.
https://www.wsm.ie/C/abortion-bodily-autonomy-pro-choice-capitalism
The constitution is there because people in the early State could see that the Communists States offered citizens no protection from dictates of a small circle of politicians and interest groups . That people on Friday will vote to do exactly the opposite of what the Constitution is intended for is remarkable but to be fair, the Government slyly distanced the vote from its affects, great if you can get away with it but awful for those with societal dignity and integrity.
@Francis Mc Carthy: “An embryo is not a citizen.Never has been.Never will be”
It is a gender issue, in this case a boy or girl developing in the womb so medically it is now possible to determine the developing child before two months. Extermination policy is based on the notion that the developing child is a pest hence the more severe term applies to those who see two lives in a pregnancy while those who only see one life try to soften it using the term ‘termination’ -
https://wikidiff.com/terminate/exterminate
It simply means everything is done to force through 12 weeks/no reason by misusing language, threatening women with jail and the electorate with complicity in death of a woman, appealing to the failings of the Church, conflating compassionate issues with willful intent or all the other stunts to avoid that it is extermination policy that is being sought.
@Tweed Cap: all rape victims and so called hard cases should be looked after . i have no problem with that. But thats not what we are being asked. Abortion up to 12 weeks is too much for me
@Joe Mc:
How do you mean “looked at”?
Should they be eligible for abortion?
Yes or no?
@Gkell1: 67% of terminations happen during/before the 8th week of pregnancy..so that means that you are “concerned” about the next 15 or so % -would that be correct ? Would you agree with me in saying that another high % would be because the woman found out that she was pregnant at around the 8th week and it takes awhile before she makes up her mind ?
@Gkell1:so you are not prepared to give up your right to your bodily autonomy…that’s all that you had to say,lad..
@Francis Mc Carthy:
Gerry doesn’t do questions. All he has is empathetic words which he strings together at his own pace. They are all completely undermined with his inability to offer any solutions or alternatives.
That’s how the conventional moralist operates.
@Joe Mc: so are we to wait for these unregulated pills and or adverse reaction to them, kills or severely maims a very viable young woman. Or one of the number ordering them from various sources has the option of seeking medical advice and possibly end up before a court facing lengthy prison sentence.
The ‘Irish’ option of turning a blind eye so long as it not on our own door step is gonna cost lives sooner or later. It already costing untold anguish and isolation to these women.
@Joe Mc
How is it effecting you,you don’t have to have an abortion unless your a woman,in which case it should be upto you no one else.the day someone tells me what i can and cannot do to my body will be a cold day in hell.
#vote yes#
@Francis Mc Carthy: “so you are not prepared to give up your right to your bodily autonomy…that’s all that you had to say,lad..”
You cannot hop into your car and end the life of a pedestrian because you believe they are a pest . The law protects boy or girl, once gender is established, inside and outside the womb but those who take the narrow view just don’t see the life they once were themselves.
Beautiful sunny day here and hard to believe I am discussing life with extermination enthusiasts on this island.
@Tweed Cap: yes they should
@Tweed Cap:spot on…he just gave another bs post that i have no more interest in responding to..
@Joe Mc:
Thanks for the reply at least.
You should know that that’s not possible without a repeal and the next voting opportunity will be decades away.
Regardless of what the disingenuous hyperbole on the NO side says.
@Tweed Cap: i believe it can be repealed and replaced. Giving the unborn right to life EXCEPT in case’s of rape, ffa etc. Maybe even up to 8 weeks unrestricted abortion but thats my personal limit. So yes it can be done but not enough insight into it by our peers. And fir tge woman who said i shouldnt have a vote on it well shes wrong. A baby always has a dad
@Joe Mc: This will invite constitutional challenges. There is nothing inherently different between a foetus conceived through rape than a foetus conceived through consensual sex. One cannot have a right to life, while the other one doesn’t.
I find your sentence ‘ Maybe even up to 8 weeks unrestricted abortion but thats my personal limit’ interesting. My personal limit would also be 8 weeks (though this is gestation, 10 weeks from LMP). Why would you rather the extreme of a total ban that causes such misery and health problems for women, rather than the difference of a few weeks? It’s a question I’ve asked myself, but I’ve decided to support the proposed legislation even though I’m a bit uncomfortable with the 12 week limit. Probably contributing to my supporting it is because I also believe in a woman’s right to bodily autonomy and self determination. Just interested in what it is about those few weeks makes you refuse to support it?
@Elise: because in my belief a baby is fully formed at 12 weeks. If it cant be done then its a big fat no from me
@Joe Mc: …and the alternative is that nothing changes for the groups you listed above; rape, ffa, etc. Nothing changes for women who have serious health problems and nothing changes for women like Savita who are suffering a miscarriage. If this referendum doesn’t pass, then we may not get another chance at this for another decade or longer. You’re choosing an extreme option for all of these women because the foetus is a couple of weeks older than you’re comfortable with.
Hopefully Ireland can be like other countries with a yes vote and not live in the past
“It’s free to order abortion pills from not-for-profit websites like Women on Web, but they ask for a donation fee of €70-€90″.
It’s not free if there’s a fee.
@Shane Corry: The Well Woman Centre used the same approach to sell condoms before they were legal: buy a brochure and get free condoms.
What the hell are we going to talk about from Saturday………
@Sean Higgins: back to the weather Sean. We’ll always have that! Can’t wait – it’s going to be a country wide verbal homecoming of epic proportions!
@Setrakian: ha ha……..
@Sean Higgins: How lovely lampposts actually look when bare.
@Sean Higgins: Champions League Final and World Cup to follow
@Sean Higgins: The result
@Stevo02 Scofield: Well, when unrestricted abortion is legalized in other countries, it usually isn’t the end of the story. We can expect to see
- regular anti-abortion rallies in cities and towns
- counter protests alongside these, from the pro-choicers
- prof-life counselling outside surgeries/hospitals where abortions are faciliated
- buffer-zoning around the major maternity hospitals to ensure unobstructed access
etc.
As a NO voter, I would not like to see this.
Let the government go back to the drawing board on this, amend the 8th to allow for rape, FFA, etc. The majority of NO voters I’m sure would be on board with this.
The gift of the constitution from people that are now called backwards is precisely to keep major decisions that affect every citizen in their responsibilities and influences . The Government has found a way around the constitution by generating a distance between the vote on Friday and an Oireachtas report that is extremely biased towards those who only see one life in a pregnancy that by definition involves two lives.
It is dismaying that an electorate would not only throw away its influence but also questions that could have been asked directly to the electorate, as the Swiss Government did, were avoided. Everything was done to make the 12 week/no reason proposal possible from people who are not expansive enough to take into account that many others see mother and developing child in a pregnancy.
@Gkell1: Every sperm is sacred.
@Gkell1: Your posts are always overwritten and difficult to read, but I think what you’re saying is there was bias towards the well-being of the mother in the Oireachtas report over a foetus? Yes. Good. It is misogynistic to say a woman is equal to a forming, potential human.
Your other point, I think, is that the 12 weeks (actually 10 weeks gestation) is too extreme. There is no other way to account for rape or incest cases, as proving these would take too long and be humiliating to the victim. They are likely to just go abroad if restrictions were tighter.
@James O’Nolan: “Your posts are always overwritten and difficult to read”
When you cannot see a mother and developing child as constituting a pregnancy then it is a surprise that you can read what is being presented at all.
The Swiss Government asked the electorate directly on the matter of 12 weeks/no reason but the Irish Government don’t trust the electorate to give them the answer they and lobby groups want. Once the ground rules were established they could then have asked the question on the constitution and legislated accordingly but by bundling compassionate issues with 12 weeks/no reason they skewed their proposals for those who naturally care for both mother and child.
The last time an electorate handed over decisions to their Government for extermination policy and using the language of subhuman within its own population was 1930′s Germany. It is a life and death issue as lives are going to be ended so it is what value you place on your own lives as citizens and humans.
* but by bundling compassionate issues with 12 weeks/no reason they skewed their proposals against those who naturally see and care for both mother and child.
@O’Boyle Darragh: “Every sperm is sacred.”
Every citizen with their responsibilities and influences is sacred but the vote tomorrow is enthusiastically handing that influence away which I personally find dismaying.
@James O’Nolan: It’s really not that difficult to understand is it! Only reason I can figure some no voters are putting such long winded “comments” is they are trying their best to twist it in some way for mis-information and confuse people.
@Gkell1: That’s because we live in a constitutional democracy. You do understand how that works? It’s a different democratic system to Switzerland.
@James O’Nolan: There remains nothing stopping the Government from being innovative and asking the electorate how to proceed with legislation by separating rather than bundling compassionate medical issues with 12 weeks/no reason. It is not only the way adults reason but also a balance of head and heart that people who see two lives in a pregnancy want.
Phew Only two more sleeps to go !!!
https://www.google.ie/amp/www.thejournal.ie/abortion-pills-coppinger-1840222-Dec2014/%3famp=1
Where was the issue when they were handed out like smarties.
How many pro-abortion articles has the journal published? Not as many as the number of abortion pills used in Ireland.
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