Advertisement

We need your help now

Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.

You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.

If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.

Central Bank governor Philip Lane appeared before the finance committee this week. Leah Farrell/RollingNews.ie

'I am really struggling': Thousands still left in tracker mortgage scandal limbo

Financial adviser Padraic Kissane believes an extra 3,000 people may be affected, but some may have to go to the courts to get their money back.

THOUSANDS OF IRISH people are still battling with their banks to be included in the tracker mortgage examination and some may be forced to go to the courts to get their money back.

The tracker mortgage controversy saw tens of thousands of customers being overcharged by their lenders when they were either denied a tracker rate they were entitled to, or charged the wrong rate of interest on their mortgage.

This week Central Bank governor Philip Lane and some of his officials appeared before the Oireachtas Finance Committee to give an update on a number of areas, including the tracker mortgage examination.

As of end-March 2018, approximately 37,100 customers have been accepted by lenders as having been affected by tracker mortgage failings. This was an increase of 3,400 customers since December.

Speaking to TheJournal.ie, financial adviser Padraic Kissane, who attempted to highlight this overcharging a number of years ago but was ignored, said he believes there is still an additional 3,000 impacted customers who should be included in this examination. This would bring the figure to above 40,000 accounts in total.

“Unfortunately the waiting room is still a busy waiting room and it’s still six weeks to the end of June [when all identified customers are expected to have compensation offers]. For people it’s the ‘don’t know factor’ that is the worst,” he said.

‘What the hell does that mean?’

One man who believes he is affected by the overcharging scandal has put his house, which he bought with his brother in 2006, up for sale because they can no longer afford to keep paying the mortgage.

Cian told TheJournal.ie that they were put on a 10-year fixed rate in 2006 and the bank has argued that by agreeing to this rate, they effectively rejected the option of a tracker.

Before that deal expired in July 2016, Cian had heard of banks being unfair to those who had taken mortgages, and rechecked his documentation. He contacted the bank and wanted to confirm that he was entitled to a tracker mortgage.

“The contract at best wasn’t clear, but I believe it was referring to a tracker rate,” he said.

I wrote to the bank to ask for a tracker because I wanted to stop the banks in their tracks, no pun intended. I was being very clear what we wanted before the fixed term ended.

In May/June 2016 he was told that his case would be going into a tracker examination, and that the tracker examination wouldn’t be finished until March 2017. Meanwhile, his mortgage contract ended in July 2016.

Cian also made a complaint to the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman (FSPO). His bank told the ombudsman that he fell within the scope of the examination, but was not impacted.

“For me as a solicitor I think ‘what the hell does that mean’?”

He is still in correspondence with the ombudsman’s office now, having argued against the bank’s claim his account was not impacted by overcharging.

The FSPO told TheJournal.ie that the best way of ensuring its office has all the necessary information to deal with complaints relating to tracker mortgages is to away the outcome of the Central Bank examination.

“Furthermore, if there are people who believe that their bank has not provided the redress and compensation that they believe they are entitled to, then they can make a complaint to this office,” it said.

The FSPO is conscious that many of the mortgage holders who have complaints with this office have been waiting a considerable length of time for the examination to conclude and additionally may have been engaging with their financial service providers for a number of years on the issue prior to the examination being commenced. For this reason, the FSPO will endeavour to prioritise tracker related complaints when the examination process has concluded in respect of those complainants.

‘I am really struggling’

Another customer who believes she has been impacted is still waiting for her bank to tell her whether she will be redressed and compensated. Anne moved from a tracker to a fixed rate in 2007 when she went back to university to do a master’s degree. She said she specifically  requested at the time to be allowed return to a tracker rate at the end of the fixed period.

She came off the fixed rate in 2009 but the bank denied it had agreed to these terms two years beforehand. Like Cian, she also complained to the ombudsman, but this was back in 2010, before the current examination was launched. Her complaint was rejected at the time.

Now her bank is reviewing her account to assess whether she should be included in the examination.

Anne believes the overcharging in her case could be as much as €40,000.

This is costing me about €400 extra per month for the last nine years, I have two small children and am really struggling despite being fortunate enough to have a secure and well-paid job.

“I have had to be careful over the years. No big holidays, we had to be very sensible when we got married. I am a good saver, I have always been careful with money. I feel like I was ripped off,” she said.

The Finance Committee has expressed concern previously about cohorts of customers in certain financial institutions.

A number of AIB customers had contracts which included an entitlement after a fixed period to the ‘prevailing rate’. The bank has since calculated that the tracker rate they would have been entitled to was 7.9% and they therefore suffered no financial detriment.

The bank has agreed to pay these customers 1,000 in compensation and €615 for professional advice, but committee members have called on the regulator to challenge this more robustly.

The committee has also heard that EBS and First Active (now Ulster Bank) customers are coming up against resistance or are facing delays in the examination.

Newly identified customers

Central Bank governor Philip Lane told members this week that 88% of the identified affected customer accounts had received offers of redress and compensation. He said further offers are expected to be made to the remaining 12% by the end of June.

To end-March, €459 million has been paid out to consumers, an increase of €162 million since December.

“In short, the cost to lenders is fast approaching the €1 billion mark,” he said.

Lane said payments “may extend beyond that date for those customers who are newly identified and verified in the coming weeks”.

Financial advisor Padriac Kissane said it raises concerns that the Central Bank has said it disagrees with the position of certain lenders, but can not force them through regulation to change the way they deal with this cohort of customers.

He said he is pleased with the numbers that have already been identified, though he said this should have happened years ago. He said he is worried now about the cases that are still in dispute.

“If someone is the one case that’s deemed not impacted, that’s still just as traumatic. We have people who got trackers who never even knew they were entitled and then people who have been arguing about it for a long time but who will be disappointed,” he said.

“Whether they will be eventually disappointed or delighted, it frustrates me that the guessing game is still going on and that’s certainly not acceptable. There shouldn’t be any degree of guessing when it comes to mortgage documents.”

Kissane said some customers will be able to go to the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman once the examination is over, but others will have to go to the courts in order to get their money back.

He said the fact that some of the banks are still pushing back on interpretations of individual words in contracts with customers who he believes have been overcharged shows that they are not serious about committing to a real culture change in their institutions.

He said it “will be interesting” now to see how this supposed culture change will play out when their legal teams face off with customers in the courts.

- With reporting by Gráinne Ní Aodha. 

Readers like you are keeping these stories free for everyone...
A mix of advertising and supporting contributions helps keep paywalls away from valuable information like this article. Over 5,000 readers like you have already stepped up and support us with a monthly payment or a once-off donation.

Close
50 Comments
This is YOUR comments community. Stay civil, stay constructive, stay on topic. Please familiarise yourself with our comments policy here before taking part.
Leave a Comment
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Smidgen Dublin
    Favourite Smidgen Dublin
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 1:28 AM

    We paid back CJ Haughey’s loans, we endured 80′s & 90′s tax regimes, we met medical consultants pay demands, we are still paying for the bank guarantee, and now we have to endure supporting bank bonuses A-N-D support tracker
    mortgages. I wish I lived in country that supported people who have worked & contributed & paid into society. AND I’M ONLY 51?!?
    IT MUST BE ANOTHER COUNTRY that deserves us. NOT HERE!!!

    287
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Ron
    Favourite Ron
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 5:19 AM

    @Smidgen Dublin:
    Well said.
    Sad reality is that the dead dying horse gets whipped here about 6-10 times per life cycle. Anyone who chooses to live here really deep down knows that. The inequality matched with the Marxist government policies makes Ireland a laboratory for populist globalist experiments. Henceforth we are rats and the result is Tralee,, Mallow and Portlaoise..

    83
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute SC
    Favourite SC
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 7:27 AM

    @Ron: do you know that you pay 0% income tax under communism? There are also no unemployment benefits. Everyone who can work has to work. For the same reason there are no landlords- no money for scratching your balls, and a company owner only gets paid what he actually generates rather than half of what his workers make as well. In summary, nobody is allowed to freeload. I wouldn’t call our govt Marxist…or most of our so called left. They pander to freeloaders like property owners or other layabouts on welfare. Workers are screwed.

    59
    See 6 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Ron
    Favourite Ron
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 8:22 AM

    @SC:
    Understood
    Duel policy exists here where one productive class props up the unproductive

    22
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute DaisyMay
    Favourite DaisyMay
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 8:22 AM

    @Smidgen Dublin: we’ve a free vote here. We get the government we deserve. Don’t like it. Vote them out. Sure FF will be back in charge in no time.

    23
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kal Ipers
    Favourite Kal Ipers
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 8:56 AM

    @SC: let us know how they pander to landlords given they have increased charges and punishments to landlords.

    16
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Sean Conway
    Favourite Sean Conway
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 10:06 AM

    @Smidgen Dublin: You should read up on countries like libya before it was destroyed. and the standard of living for the people they had. capitalist nut

    6
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute helen walsh
    Favourite helen walsh
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 11:07 AM

    @Smidgen Dublin: the banksters brought us down with implicit government backing.
    I used to watch those c##ts sashay into the Merrion, head for the Leinster room, one even looked like Zorro, red lined cloak, wide brimmed hat, a fraudster in disguise joining the rest of them, how can we gut the country today?

    11
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kal Ipers
    Favourite Kal Ipers
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 11:14 AM

    @helen walsh: the people taking out loans with false pay slips, secret credit union loans, more than they can afford etc… have no responsibility. So the guy I know who did this and bought a 7k TV and car with the mortgage for his house was cheated? Personal responsibility has more to do with than you are letting on.

    13
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute William Bryan
    Favourite William Bryan
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 12:29 AM

    Fraud or not?

    80
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Isthatright
    Favourite Isthatright
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 4:32 AM

    @William Bryan:
    Absolute fraud
    And all at the same time …… no coincidence!

    76
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute iohanx
    Favourite iohanx
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 8:06 AM

    @William Bryan: there appears to be a lot of “believes” and “feels” they were ripped off … its incredible people do not read what they sign or get what was ‘apparently’ agreed in writing before signing. There are certainly individuals who are mift they messed up by missing the tracker rates and are taking the pi$s now with solicitors jumping on the bandwagon

    30
    See 2 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kal Ipers
    Favourite Kal Ipers
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 9:30 AM

    @William Bryan: not fraud. The banks had contracts that they believed covered the ending of tracker mortgages. A court case was brought and declared that it wasn’t clear enough and invalid. When we looked at changing our mortgage they warned us we would lose our tracker. Most people were told this but the ruling meant they could get it back with compensation. While you hear stories of people being tricked they are very one sided.

    10
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute col c
    Favourite col c
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 11:55 AM

    @iohanx: Theres no “believe ” or ” feel ” about it , the 4000 people had in their contract that at the end of the fixed rate period ( which they started their mortgage on ) that they would be offered a choice of tracker or variable rate . The banks during this time withdrew trackers and as a result reneged on offering the 4000 people the choice of a tracker . Now they’ve made up this prevailing rate figure which they say justifies why they didnt offer the 4000 people a tracker – that they were nice to people by offering them a cheaper variable rate ( the highest in europe ) instead . AIB are basically chancing their arm and saying to people fight us legally if you want – knowing most people are scared of losing in the courts with the costs that would entail.

    6
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Jarlath Murphy
    Favourite Jarlath Murphy
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 12:34 AM

    Abandon hope all ye that enter here!

    This is Banksters heaven where the laws protect them!

    85
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mucky Pup
    Favourite Mucky Pup
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 1:18 AM

    The mortgage crisis is starting all over again now… but without trackers and massive interest relief. When the next crash happens, people will be repaying double what those on trackers were!

    49
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Colette Kearns
    Favourite Colette Kearns
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 1:47 AM

    @Mucky Pup: And the stock exchange can’t wait for it to happen! Nothing they love more than a crash.

    28
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Michael Heery
    Favourite Michael Heery
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 3:54 AM

    @Mucky Pup: banks in the uk have started 100% mortages again..

    23
    See 2 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Caroline Reid
    Favourite Caroline Reid
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 7:34 AM

    @Michael Heery: there is nothing wrong with 100% mortgages. We got one over 11 years ago. We were sensible about it though and only went for what we knew we could afford. People need to take personal responsibility also. The tracker mortgage scandal is a disgrace though

    33
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Ronan Sexton
    Favourite Ronan Sexton
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 11:10 AM

    @Caroline Reid: there is absolutely nothing wrong with 100% mortgages. Not everyone is lucky enough to get help from family with a deposit, which is virtually impossible to save for and also pay rent. The people who constantly bash the full mortgages are the half wits who never had to rent and try and save a deposit at the same time, who also don’t realise how money works.

    7
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kay English Curtin
    Favourite Kay English Curtin
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 12:45 AM

    Has anyone contacted a solicitor and actually gotten more from them than the standard compensation? Just asking for a friend

    40
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute EdmundOrlando
    Favourite EdmundOrlando
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 2:26 AM

    @Kay English Curtin: bankcheck Northern Ireland is what my friend recommended to me.

    11
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Frank Dubogovik
    Favourite Frank Dubogovik
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 12:36 PM

    @Kay English Curtin: yes…. my understanding is the figure you receive is broken down into 4 parts…
    1. the actual amount overcharged
    2. a legal fee set figure.
    3. the value of the money IF you hadn’t been overcharged….a value is given as ” time of money”.
    4 the compensation.

    # 4 is the only variable really…a figure is set by a ‘ independent 3rd party”…but you are well within your rights to challenge this

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Smidgen Dublin
    Favourite Smidgen Dublin
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 12:36 AM

    I’ve posted two comments that have not been accepted. I only hope it’s due to general anger at this scandal & hipocracy.

    46
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute David Huston
    Favourite David Huston
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 10:25 AM

    @Smidgen Dublin:
    thats the journal controlling the levels of anger, it’s why they did away with the red thumbs in the comments section

    14
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute SC
    Favourite SC
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 7:33 AM

    Does anyone know why the mortgage rates are so much lower in Europe? It’s very frustrating in Ireland that your savings effectively lose value year on year with interest on savings so low, and yet interest on loans is not that low.

    37
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kal Ipers
    Favourite Kal Ipers
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 8:54 AM

    @SC: we don’t let homes to be repossessed easily generating extra liability and costs. Similar problem with rent where tenants can stay for over a year and not pay rent.

    20
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Frank Dubogovik
    Favourite Frank Dubogovik
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 1:00 PM

    @Kal Ipers: Good points…so you reckon the high variable rates here are as a result of the ‘ pracically’zero repossision rates here…i had never looked at it from that angle before.

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute FlopFlipU
    Favourite FlopFlipU
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 6:17 AM

    The banker’s don’t have to fear any reprimand for the damage they do so nothing will change

    41
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute William Kelly
    Favourite William Kelly
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 7:50 AM

    The state needs to keep AIB under total state control, not “sell “it back to the banker buccaneers.
    Given that it can generate profit for the state into the future, whilst operating to strict state set rules, why abandon that lever on the market?
    Given that AIB was negligent in private ownership in 3 major financial cock ups which seriously damaged the economy, why let go of the reins?
    Learn from the mistakes of the past please.

    37
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute DeFonz
    Favourite DeFonz
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 9:18 AM

    @William Kelly: Wait for the day after they sell off the banks, when a huge hole or liability comes to light.

    Billions are on the line, but surely the new owners took this risk when they got it at a knock down price?

    No it will turn out the Government overlooked a clause, stating Ireland will be liable to nake up the loss, and the Minister who by then is working for the bank will express surprise..

    Tax payers get taxed, receivers will receive..

    15
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Sean Duignan
    Favourite Sean Duignan
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 9:35 AM

    The banks in Ireland are toxic staff moral is on the floor they are nothing more than debt collectors. We need a new bank that issues proper loans at proper rates and is in the business of banking
    If a new bank came in and people took out there deposits and moved different tune then

    14
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kal Ipers
    Favourite Kal Ipers
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 9:45 AM

    @Sean Duignan: for proper banking system we need to allow repossessions so that loans can perform. Not much of a business if banks have no recourse when somebody stops paying. It means loans have to have higher interest rates as those paying pay for those that don’t. Try opening a business where a percentage of your customers don’t pay and cost you money instead.

    13
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Martin Critten
    Favourite Martin Critten
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 10:01 AM

    @Kal Ipers: the oxymoron in all this was the banks were given the funds to correct the issues but instead chose to hord. Take a look at how Roosevelt handle the crash of the 30′s and contrast it with here. The bankers got off to party again and people in difficulties got no assistance other than being thrown at the wall.

    9
    See 1 more reply ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kal Ipers
    Favourite Kal Ipers
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 10:47 AM

    @Martin Critten: the banks were not given money for ongoing liabilities that could keep on appearing. They were given money for immediate issues and the government got paid in shares. Those shares have to retain and increase in value to pay back the loan. The money didn’t magically appear with nobody paying it back. Lots of people are under the misconception that banks were given the money for free and ignore the fact the government also need to pay it back.

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dave Doyle
    Favourite Dave Doyle
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 10:04 AM

    If this was Social Welfare fraud, it would be all over MSM, people would be jailed, have to pay every cent back, and there would be no gentle questioning in front of a committee.
    Bankers should be jailed for this crime that has seen people lose their homes, be driven into bad health, or commit suicide.

    18
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kal Ipers
    Favourite Kal Ipers
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 10:49 AM

    @Dave Doyle: prove the crime.

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dave Doyle
    Favourite Dave Doyle
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 2:11 PM

    @Kal Ipers: I personally don’t have to prove anything. It’s up to judge and jury to do that. Not than any of these thieves will see the inside of a court.
    People have lost their homes, been driven into bad health, driven into poverty, and suicide in all to many cases. None of this would have happened if the banks were happy with the contracted payments. But banks being banks, greed is the driving force.
    Twist this whatever way you like, theft is theft, fraud is fraud, crime is crime.
    Neoliberslism is at the root cause, as it is for many of the problems beggaring society. A neoliberal government approves, that’s why nothing will ever happen.

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute mur
    Favourite mur
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 10:30 AM

    when will people of this country cop on . the banks etc have politicians fully in their pockets and we can expect no favourable legislation or governance from this cabal. at the height of the financial disaster for citizens ( not banks ) Kenny/noonan were feited by the banks where Kenny gladly told the banks paddy was stupid to borrow so much from them . obviously champagne and caviar helps you to lie.
    the banks do not have to pay a penny to compensate tracker victims , no leo ,mehaul and paschal have arranged for the other banking victims ( variable rate paying 2 points higher than other europeanmortgage payers on money borrowed from same funds ) along with taxpayers to bail out banks for third time or is it fourth time .
    1. bank bail out
    2. subsidised investor purchases and bank compensation
    3. tax free exemptions for investors
    4. 2 percentage points above Europe on variable mortgages
    5. tax free status for bank profits for 20 years
    WELL DONE FINE GAEL AND FIANNA FAIL FOR SCREWING YOUR CITIZENS YET AGAIN

    13
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute mur
    Favourite mur
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 10:46 AM

    “Financial advisor Padriac Kissane said it raises concerns that the Central Bank has said it disagrees with the position of certain lenders, but can not force them through regulation to change the way they deal with this cohort of customers.”

    LIKE THE CERVICAL SMEAR SCANDAL THE GOVT WE ELECT HAVE NO POWERS TO GOVERN , ITS DICTAT BY CRONIES NOT DEMOCRACY WE HAVE.

    8
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Frank Dubogovik
    Favourite Frank Dubogovik
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 12:54 PM

    Fair Play to Padraic Kassane.
    Always seemed like a genuine smart man in interviews & on tv. I think it’s fairly safe to say the bankers must hate him…hes had their measure for a long time.

    9
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Ronan Sexton
    Favourite Ronan Sexton
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 11:00 AM

    Simply stop paying the mortgage if you are certain you have been wronged. They won’t be long sorting it out then. It really is that simple.

    5
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kal Ipers
    Favourite Kal Ipers
    Report
    May 13th 2018, 11:06 AM

    @Ronan Sexton: great advice get extra interest charges and put your home at risk. Nothing could go wrong

    9
Submit a report
Please help us understand how this comment violates our community guidelines.
Thank you for the feedback
Your feedback has been sent to our team for review.

Leave a commentcancel

 
JournalTv
News in 60 seconds