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A BISHOP HAS claimed that having an abortion after being raped is sometimes far worse than the rape itself during a radio interview about whether to legalise abortion.
He also suggested that in cases of fatal foetal abnormality and cases of incest, women should carry their pregnancies to full term because “the life of the child is paramount”.
In an interview with Newstalk’s Pat Kenny Show, the Bishop of Ossory Dr Dermot Farrell was asked what should be done in cases of rape if the Eighth Amendment isn’t repealed.
He said that ”rape is a violent act” and “a violent crime against a woman”, and added:
“What I understand from women who have been raped is that the abortion that followed sometimes after rape was far worse than the rape itself.”
When asked about what should be done in instances of incest, the Bishop replied that although “we mightn’t like the way the child was conceived” that “the right to the life of the child is paramount”.
Speaking about victims of rape and incest, the Bishop said:
If she brings the child to full term she’s going to have a very difficult situation because as you know rape cases and incest cases are very tragic, they’re very painful for the individuals concerned. But the way to help them and to reach out to them with compassion is not to take the life of their unborn child.
In instances of fatal foetal abnormalities, he said that two families he knew chose to carry their baby to full term and it helped them through the grieving process.
When asked whether he agreed with abortion in cases where the woman’s health was at risk, he said he did because ”it’s not the intentional life-taking of the unborn”, rather it was saving the life of a mother “and as a consequence of that intervention, the child dies”.
A pastoral letter from Farrell made available to every Mass in 42 parishes of the diocese of Ossory claimed that once abortion was introduced it would be very difficult to restrict.
Article’s headline and intro amended at 4.45pm
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They just dont know when to quit.
@Totalitarian: the usual people advocating a No vote were looking for an article to represent the No side from the Journal as they felt underrepresented. Now they have one.
@Eamonn Dunne: You need to take your blinkers off Eamon, but then again you repealers like to dismiss people as religious fanatics so you don’t have to engage with them. Back to your safe space.
@Totalitarian: your name is very apt for the new “liberal” left
@kevin: I would hope not Kevin and Matt. But the cases he’s talking about can’t be legislated for without Repealing the 8th or adding yet another amendment. We can’t have a referendum every time, we need the politicians who represent us to be able to legislate.
@kevin: i do remember another “pro life” guy from Cork,who called himself the “pro life legend” .He said that a rape victim can get over their rape by continuing with the pregnancy.Something to do with the release of oxytocin…
@Eamonn Dunne: After what has happened the past couple of weeks over the smear testing scandal ,I wouldn’t trust one of our politicians to turn out a light, never mind legislate for any woman. Couple of week ago they came out and said ” We trust women, we care about women” if that’s their way of caring about women there’s no hope at all. I will vote NO because of our politicians and not because of any religious persons comments, and there just as entitled to their view as you or I.
@Matt Bateman: no, you’re right. The no side have previously claimed giving birth to a rapeist off spring somehow heals the mother from being rapedd.
That’s some claim, of course like many of their claims it is not factual.
@Charliegrl80: Complete strawman. No matter what the politicians put in place it will be the womans decision
So, don’t trust politicians #TrustWomen.
@Abortion Saves Lives: so what? Are you trying to suggest that I need to explain the thoughts of some lunatic?
@Barry Somers: stop misrepresenting the no side as one homogeneous group whereby what one eejit says applies to everyone. And people accuse the pro life side of spreading lies!!
@Eamonn Dunne: I’m happier with constitutional protection thanks Eamon
you seem to have got all triggered ,Kev..
I’m just making convo on here about how “pro life” guys treat rape victims..awful isn’t it ?
@Charliegrl80: you’re absolutely right that the government have let women down terribly. It is truly sickening to hear their stories but I would ask you to reconsider your position with voting no. Should the No side win it would be another kick in the teeth for the women of Ireland. You are not doing women any favours by voting No. There are and will continue to be many thousands of women in Ireland who will need a termination for many various reasons. Consider those women and their needs. Be compassionate. Don’t discount or overlook them for the sake of what might (and might not) be considered a protest vote against the government. Vote yes for the women of Ireland
@kevin: if you want that.. you need to stop using phrases such as “you repealers”.. you see the hypocrisy right?
@Totalitarian:
My cousin was raped. She kept the baby (she wasn’t catholic) and found abortion abhorrent. Not long after she had him she was diagnosed with cervical cancer and had a full hysterectomy. He was always treated as one of the family. However 8 years later my cousin died. Her son is a full member of her family and always will be.
She loved her son. With her whole heart, she would have done anything to protect him. She is inspirational.
@kevin: ssshhh! You are very annoying.
@Lily: Luckily for her the choice she made was legal. Unfortunately not always the case.
@Lily: I’m sorry for your loss and your cousin’s ordeal, but the point is she CHOSE to stay pregnant, and that CHOICE will still be available when the 8th is repealed
@Larissa Caroline Nikolaus:
There wasnt any choice, abortion was abhorrent. She lived in the UK so she could have had an abortion had she just thought of her baby as a bunch of cells, but she didn’t. She thought of her baby as a living human being a son or a daughter and she would do anything to protect her unborn child, regardless of how s/he was conceived.
I myself could understand why someone would have an abortion due to rape.
Whatever way you look at it, she was inspirational.
@Totalitarian: a total and utter clown of a man.
@Totalitarian:
I wonder has he ever been raped or had an abortion. If not what makes him an expert?
@Matt Bateman: darned sure it does!! Just articulated more clearly than usual.
@Lily: If the 8th had been repealed when your cousin was still alive, she would have still been entitled to her feelings. And she would have still been able to make the choice she did. But her choice should not be forced on anyone.
@Totalitarian: Queue the middle class women who will take time off from planning for their little prince/princesses confirmation to troll the church.
@Lily: I am glad your cousin got to have a choice. Because she did have a choice, regardless of how you look at it. I am very glad your family were all able to overlook how her child came into the world and embrace him. To some women, the idea of carrying a child after rape is abhorrent, let alone raising or loving that child. Those survivors of rape are no less inspirational. They are equally brave in taking back their control and making a very difficult or sometimes an easy decision for themselves. All deserve support and all deserve to choice.
@kevin: What have you got to say about this Kevin? How can you defend this? You obviously agree with what he said, otherwise you’d oppose it.
@Lily: Good for them, rest in peace.
@Totalitarian: I’m pro-life however, I don’t agree with his views when it comes to rape/sexual assault etc . He is entitled to have an opinion, the issue I have with the Yes side and liberals in general instead of countering his argument and looking at the issue from his point of view you just resort to insults and ridiculing the man.
If someone on the No side makes a statement you disagree with provide evidence that disproves them , don’t go into trigger mode and go off the rails.
@kevin: well it’s not protection for women!
@The Risen: what about women politicians then – should we trust them or not? Tell us o wise one with the hashtags!
@Charliegrl80: interesting that you’re deciding to vote No, not based on the issue but on the fact that politicians are involved that really doesn’t seem very rational. I tell you what though, next time a rape victim is denied an abortion you should be there to tell her it’s better than letting politicians do their jobs.
@Keith Murdiff: *Cue
@kevin: in fairness the eejit in question is a representative of quite a large religious charity and shouldnt be interfering in a political campaign as the charity may lose their charity status. Oh sorry, its the catholic church, they can do whatever they want…….
@Lily: Have you ever thought of a career writing country and western songs?
@Lily: Nice bit of allegory. Are the film and TV rights still available? Netflix are always looking for good fictional material.
@Charliegrl80: You will vote no because of our politicians, yet it was our politicians who put your beloved 8th in the Constitution in the first place. Rather confused, aren’t you?
How dare you decide for other people by voting no. The Irish macho culture at work again, women’s bodies are not theirs but belong to men.
I have seen a miscarried foetus of 10 weeks. There’s no way that what I saw could have equal rights to an adult woman.
At least abstain, you will never be pregnant so stop deciding for others.
@SteoG: Do you really think anyone is going to make up a story about her cousin who has since died?That is pathetic. Lily’s cousin knew that the child she was carrying was her son or daughter to be loved and cherished as this child obviously was and is. Choosing what one does with one’s own life, whether man or woman, is fine. Nobody, either man or woman can choose to kill another life. This unfortunately is what happens in an abortion.Science tells us that the life in the womb is a unique individual, separate from the mother
Heard it earlier, it was absolutely vile. He also stated that 12 year old rape victims should carry to full term and give birth
@Philip Mckenna: As the father of a young boy and girl, the best move I ever made was to completely remove our family from any dealings with the RCC
@The Risen: that’s hardly a surprising stance considering Mary was around 12 at the time of Jesus’ birth
@The Risen: Well done and I thoroughly agree.
@The Risen: Where do you get your criteria to decide what is vile or not?
@The Risen: And there it is, the 8th protecting the procreation rights of r@pists over that of women, officially endorsed by the church.
@Ireland Needs God: ‘Where do you get your criteria to decide what is vile or not?’
As a humanist, I decide based on my own ethical standpoint, which is informed by reason, experience and knowledge. I do not have my morals dictated to or imposed on me by any authority or book
@The Risen: now THATS a reply! I’m robbing that…….
@Ireland Needs God:
I am 100% sure the following count as criteria for an institution such as the RCC to be considered vile:
- The systematic physical and sexual abuse of generations of children in Ireland and around the world.
- The systemic hiding and moving of abusers to new parishes to abuse again.
- The physical, sexual and emotional abuse of women and children in laundries and institutions for decades.
- The selling of babies overseas to swell the coffers.
- The Tuam babies
- The refusal to fully apologise and pay restitution to the victims of their decades of crimes.
- The advocating of a No vote in the marriage equality referendum.
- The blocking of the Mother and Child healthcare scheme in the 1950′s
I could go on and on. It is a vile institution. No place in public life
@Seán O’Carroll: I agree with a lot of that (I’m not Catholic). But atheists making moral judgments doesn’t make sense. There is no good or evil in your worldview.
@Ireland Needs God:
Of course an atheist can make a moral judgement. Human beings are luck
@Ireland Needs God: There might be no ‘good or evil’ in the supernatural sense, but there is good and bad, right and wrong. The difference is, when we are asked why something is good or bad, we can usually explain and give our reasoning behind it. Not because it’s in a book we worship, or people we bow in reverence to proclaimed it so.
@Ireland Needs God:
Second attempt
Of course an Atheist can make a moral judgement. Human beings are lucky to be born with the ability to tell right from wrong. The shades of what is right to one person and wrong to another form us as unique human beings.
The difference here as @TheRisen has said is that i make my moral judgements on experience in life, on weighing up evidence in front of me and looking at facts.
I do not use a book of fairy stories written 2000 years ago to inform me on right and wrong in 2018
@Seán O’Carroll: Sean, I am one of those survivors you talk about in your comment but you must remember it wasn’t just the Religious involved in all of that the State went hand in hand with the Religious orders. I have no time for any of them however, I do believe everyone no matter how I feel about it has the right to their view right or wrong.
@The Risen: While I respect your opinion and thought we cannot stop people no matter what from their view right or wrong. You have a different view from me, but no matter what I respect everyone’s right to have a voice.
@Charliegrl80:
Charlie i’m really sorry to hear you suffered at the hands of both the Church and State.
You are right the state was complicit in the wrongs of the Church and this cuts to the massive issue of the Church’s level of influence in Irish public life for generations and the real need for complete separation of Church and state.
I agree everyone should be entitled to their own views but i draw the line at religious dogma being the building block of a nations constitution
@Ireland Needs God: You don’t seem to understand that he can decide for himself what he thinks is vile or not and he doesn’t need criteria to justify it..choice such a hard choice for some people to get their heads around strangely enough…
@Ireland Needs God: An atheist making a moral judgement makes no sense.
Right. All atheists being sociopaths and the only definition of right and wrong coming from God I take it?
The sooner Ireland is truly secular all the better.
@Seán O’Carroll: Thank you, and yes there should be a total separation of religious organisations from the state, and no matter what or whom each must be held to account for their actions.
@Ireland Needs God: That has to be one of the most clueless comments ever.
@The Risen:
As a humanist who claims to have ethics…please explain how your ethical system can justify taking a innocent human life on demand without justification?
I can understand ffa, rape, and incest – and that requires some ethical compromise – but I have managed to include it in mine.
Please explain how you have integrated abortion on demand of healthy children by their biological mothers – in any developed ethical system that respects human rights and life?
I have tried but have discovered it is not possible.
Taking a life – of your own child would require extreme justification – lifestyle choice doesn’t qualify – ethically.
@HelloGoogleTracking..: Ethics pre-date organised religion, the word is derived from the ancient Greek word ethos. But you keep taking your guidance from the cult with the horrendous human rights track record.
@A Piece of Chalk:
I am completely atheist – I dispose organized religions and all cults and narrow ideologies.
I have my own ethics and morality developed based on principles of philosophy including everything from the Greeks to contemporary….
I am asking a simple question to Tisen who claims to have the same.
How can he square an impossible circle – I have tried and found no way.
@Ireland Needs God: so wrong….
@HelloGoogleTracking..: how does allowing abortion in the cases of FFA, rape and incest require ethical compromise? An ethics system that is happy to force a mother to carry and deliver a dead foetus doesn’t seem very ethical to me
@Ron O’Keefe: I don’t think ye are understanding me guys. If there is no such thing as an objective standard of good and evil, nothing can “in fact” be good or evil. Its just one persons likes vs another persons likes. The most you can claim is that you personally don’t like something. Any more than that and you are borrowing Christian concepts (the existence of absolute morality).
@Ireland Needs God: “The most you can claim is that you personally don’t like something. Any more than that and you are borrowing Christian concepts (the existence of absolute morality). ”
Nothing could be further from the truth of Christianity !. Christ realised and followers like Paul affirmed that laws are only there to stop bad people from doing worse but add nothing to the inspirational side of humanity where people are naturally creative and productive.
When the Church jettisoned its scientific heritage at the time of the Galileo affair to concentrate on moral issues, it eventually became more or even worse than Pharasaic Judaism , the very thing Christ undid by his life and death.
Christ and Christianity is a spiritual form where the heart informs the head and visa versa.
@The Risen: snap
@Gkell1: sorry but acceptable and unacceptable existed before Christianity and Christianity has been shifting its stance for over two thousand years to try to keep up, inevitably it has been late more often than not
I’d just like to thank the bishop for the additional votes his interview has sent the YES campaign.
@Beyond Belief: yup
Not in my name.
@Jesus Christ: Smite the *%cker
The way he understands it?!! And there we have it! Wow!
@Deborah Behan: In actual fact what he said was that he’s Pro-Choice, however he himself set’s the bar very low.
I had a conversation with a woman yesterday evening who declared herself firmly Pro-Life, I asked how she’d feel if her 15 year old daughter were raped and pregnant or her older married son and his wife had a FFA. She felt that was different and abortion was permitted, but she’s still Pro-Life. At that point I had to tell her that ship had sailed, we’d established she’s actually Pro-Choice but her bar is somewhat ‘elastic’. When she’s judging others she set’s it low, but when it’s her and her family it gets raised very quickly. I honestly don’t think she had thought about it and realised what she was saying, quite a lot like that.
@Jed I. Knight: One of my favourite sayings is:
“We judge others on their actions, we judge ourselves our on intentions.”
First time I heard it REALLY made me realise how harsh we are on others but we so easily forgive ourselves and those we feel fondly of.
@Jed I. Knight: Typical of the hypocrisy and double standards of pro-birthers.
@Tricia G: Good saying, I’ve never heard that one. I know at times my mouth goes before my brain gets a chance, I don’t know if one is getting faster or one slowing down.
Having said that I can’t see how someone who doesn’t play the game, so to speak, can possibly preach and give an informed opinion to others. I want to hear from a mother who’s had 12 pregnancies, the women who were raped, the women who had FFA and their experiences, the women who had abortions. And yes, the women who changed their minds with regard to abortion. The last thing I want to hear in all of this is the opinion of a bloody ‘back seat driver’. Sorry, I’m off again.
@Tricia G: I’m off to ponder that for the day
@Tricia G: In psychology it’s called the actor/observer bias. Basically, we observe others and attribute their behaviours to their character, but we can’t observe ourselves so we attribute out own behaviours to the situation.
The RCC know all about rape. They covered up enough of it. They, sadly know, and care to know nothing about women.
@Dave Doyle: suppose one could argue they know more about rape then many other organisations. They certainly know about cover ups….given they literally wrote a rule book for them!
‘What I understand from women who have been raped is that sometimes the abortion afterwards is far worse’ – Those are the words of a man who almost certainly has never spoken to a rape victim. Maybe it’s worse for some women, but wouldn’t it be nice if victims of a violent crime had a say, and could make a decision? More likely he’s speaking from whatever dogmatic talking points the cardinals and Vatican are circulating.
@Aindriú de Domhain: as we well know the church likes victims to be powerless
How can the bishop make a statement like that, can he clarify his statement, he is not a woman and if u take Tuam into consideration they don’t care once the baby is born
Make no mistake… If the No side wins people like this will only be emboldened to try to make access to abortion even more restrictive including going after a pregnant woman’s right to travel..
@Vigo The Carpathian: Cool story bro.
@Vigo The Carpathian:
You wrote the same thing on an article a few days ago. It is the slippery slope fallacy. If we allow this then they will want x. If you have a link to back up the claim I’d like to look at it.
@Alan Leahy: They campaigned in 1992 to allow the Gardai arrest pregnant women at airports if they were suspected of travelling to have an abortion. That’s an irrefutable FACT. They will stop at nothing until there’s absolutely no right to an abortion for any woman regardless of circumstances. He’s literally just said that even being raped isn’t a valid reason to seek a termination…
@Maurice Bourke: it’s not really a fallacy it is the way society invariably operates, that’s why there’s no need to stress too much about restrictive abortion conditions, they’ll become more liberal over time.
@Vigo The Carpathian: did they really do that ? Wow! You learn something new everyday..cheers.
@David Edwards:
I’m having trouble understanding your reply. Your saying the slippery slope of if we allow abortion up to example 4 weeks society will push it along afterwards to 20 weeks. But I was replying to Vigos assertion if the keep side win society will push for the stopping of the amendment where they can travel for abortion. Is that slippery slope real? Also society doesnt always go liberal
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/JESlsjE
@Maurice Bourke: Have they not said that repaling ‘will lead to abortion on demand’? Slipping on the phallus is universal it seems.
@Maurice Bourke: It’s not a slippery slope fallacy. The stated aim of the No Campaign is ZERO ABORTION IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES including as the Bishop has pointed out even if the pregnancy is as a result of RAPE OR INCEST.
@Vigo The Carpathian:
Leave me put on caps lock so you understand NOT YOUR ORIGINAL CLAIM. Where did they say that after they keep the 8th amendment they will try to repeal 13th/14th amendment. If you have a link I’d like to see it.
@Maurice Bourke: Maurice they campaigned against both.Every one of the posters they’ve stuck up around the country for this referendum makes it perfectly clear they want No abortion in ANY circumstances.It’s fairly safe to say that they’ve not changed their opinion of the 13/14th and would move to repeal both in a heartbeat if they thought they could get away with it. I think a more pertinent question would be is : “What assurances can they give us that they won’t try to repeal the 13/14th ? “
@Vigo The Carpathian:
OK no links, you’re just assuming, I must admit it sounds a lot like the slippery slope fallacy.
@Maurice Bourke:
Since when is a link required for a opinion?
Wow just wow
Why is everyone on the NO side, including Bishop Farrell, acting as if women have to get abortions? If going to term with a traumatic pregnancy is what any woman wants to do, they can. But if they can’t or don’t want to do that, they shouldn’t have to. What is the big dilema here? And how would he know what is far worse about pregnancy as a result of rape/incest? Or if carrying an FFA pregnancy to term is best? Considering he can’t get pregnant, it is doubtful he is any kind of an authority. As a man, I would never purport to know what is best for anyone who is pregnant. And it is interesting how he seems to not acknowledge that incest and rape are synonymous. As in rape, coercion accompanies incest. Incest is familial rape.
@Ron O’Keefe: Calm down Ron, this is the pro-abortion journal not a news outlet.
@Brian Deane: The Journal is a news outlet. So what is your point?
Suppose they know. How many babies did the church murder , how many boys and girls did they abuse and rape, how made children abused because their parents where not wed. Any one who believes in the church and still goes are supporting all this it still goes on, maybe not as much but still in the rest of the world.
FFS.. what a load of ball-locks. He’s convinced me – to vote Yes.
@Matt Bateman: Calm down there Matthew. Jumping on someone’s comment and calling them an idiot because they said something you don’t agree with isn’t very nice, nor is it constructive. We’re (supposedly) all on the same side here. This clown has said that abortion is worse than rape – that is more than ‘something stupid’ – the sheer lunacy and the lack of empathy in that statement is breath-taking. If you really want to get angry about something maybe start on that first. You have no idea who I am or what my life experience is, so don’t make assumptions about me based on a two line comment. Did it ever cross your mind that what I said was an (admittedly) poor attempt to sway people who still haven’t made their minds up?
@Matt Bateman: We’ll have to agree to disgree Matt. All that matters is the 8th is repealed. I seriously couldn’t care less if someone votes ‘Yes’ because their dog told them to. This is too important an issue to nitpick each other about. There’s only one argument worth winning in all of this.
What an a&&hole
No woman is considered worthy to be a Catholic priest, yet clueless eejits like this guy get to be bishops. Go figure.
And he would know this how?
Nothing enrages liberals more than the opinion of a Bishop.
@Scott Peterson: Kinda depends on the opinion though.
@Scott Peterson: Except for right wing liberals
@Scott Peterson: That all you have to say about it Scott? Slag off liberals, cos ya know, snowflake.
@Scott Peterson: could also be something to do with the systematic child rape, the cover ups that go all the way to the top, the bigotry, how they treat gay people and women, their idiotic opinions on vaccines and on contraception,Magdalene laundries to name just a couple of reasons why these irrelevant bishops should stay quite on woman or family issues.
@Scott Peterson: That bishops warped opinion should enrage all right minded people. His organisation knows all about rape, forced birth, theft and selling of babies… but you know, liberals blah blah blah. Clown.
@Scott Peterson: enrages?
Hardly.
His viewpoint is pretty meaningless to me.
Just as meaningless as if some scientologist made such a claim.
@Scott Peterson: Waiting for you to mention the words snowflake, feminazis and millennials .. it’s usually what your type do to shut down a debate when you don’t have an articulate argument
@Scott Peterson: Can we leave the liberals BS to the Americans please??
The referendum is not about the catholic church ,its about repealing or not repealing the 8th amendment .i say no to repeal, as the law stands it protects both mother and child ,without it the floodgates of abortion on demand will surely happen as night follows day .all unborn children have the natural right to life .do not deny to others the very right that you now exercise .the hippocrassy is deafening .
@Anthony Gallagher: can you spell irony correctly, because hypocrisy and it’s meaning was lost on you.
@Anthony Gallagher: ‘The referendum is not about the catholic church’
The 8th was passed in the first place under threat of eternal damnation for a God fearing and obedient population. I remember 1983. So to say a referendum to keep or remove it has nothing to do with the catholic church is a bit rich.
I take it you saw the No sides march, featuring the rosary being blared out while lots of good catholics with their hands folded in prayer walked down the street, no?
@The Risen: how do you sleep at night with all that hatred that you carry ,looks very much like your in your own prison
@Paul Fahey: Is that the best argument you have ,lets stick to life and death ,lets leave the spelling mistakesto where they belong .
@Anthony Gallagher: How does it affect you? You can do as you like and you will never know any consequences of other peoples’ decisions. The only hypocrite here is a bishop from an organisation that tortured people for having babies outside marriage and then killed the actual babies born.
@Kal Ipers: what a silly question and sillier observation ,back to school
@Anthony Gallagher: Well you really put me in my place. If you think it is silly to bring up what the Catholic church were doing as a solution to unwanted pregnancies while commenting on abortion I would call you a lot worse than silly.
@Kal Ipers: that big brush is awful handy lol
@Paul Fahey:
Another male knows everything.
@Anthony Gallagher: It isn’t like it was just one place and a very small number of people. It was institutional. There was also on top of that the sexual abuse in many many schools. I went to school where they had their own grave yard for pupils who died there and when they exhumed the bodies they found more than recorded.
@Anthony Gallagher: I agree with you we don’t need abortion what we need is a decent health care system and we can’t trust our government or the HSE to deliver look what happened to the scandal of the cancer smear tests and they tell us abortion is safe I’ll tell you its not safe as most abortion clinics are nothing short of slaughter houses look at the case in Scotland this week where a young woman was left with the babies head still in the womb today I learned from a video of a doctor from an abortion clinic cutting the babies throat if it was still alive as I’ve seen a baby left to die in a stainless steel dish struggling for its life that’s totally unacceptable. I suggest that as life is sacred and our country has it written into the constitution it should be protected so to protect the life of the innocent unborn baby we should vote No as our government are not capable of delivering a proper health and after care service.
@Mona Kiely: indeed, but then why should a total stranger not have a say over your uterus. Well that really is the general gist of their argument.
@Kal Ipers: I am not here to defend the role of the catholic church in the blatant criminality that took place over decades .the unborn child has a natural right to be protected just like a one year old or three year old .the untoled suffering which will occur if this amendment is repealed is a crime against humanity .the destruction of human life is a sad reflection on our so called advanced civilization .animals wouldnt do it .
@revdenisd@gmail.com: You saw a baby left to die in a stainless steel tray? Really? Or did you see a video that somebody claimed was that? The case of decapitation was not an abortion but a failed birth and is being investigated. Given the out and out lies from anti-abortionists you might want to check your facts. You could of course be somebody lying to spread misinformation.
@Anthony Gallagher: There will be a lot less suffering if this is repelled is the reality. Or do you think people forced to give birth to a child that will die instantly isn’t going to make the women suffer? Animals kill their young all the time and eat them too. Abortion has been part of humans all a long. You have some deluded view of nature, history and society.
People have died in back street abortions. A serial killer even used it to get victims. Try and educate yourself. You call me silly but you are plain and simply ignorant.
@Kal Ipers: you are the one that is deluded ,when you get off on the destruction of innocent human life .crawl back under the stone
@Anthony Gallagher: I don’t get off on it but it isn’t human either. It is simply not my choice nor yours. You really don’t know history, nature, science or society. Unfortunately your vote is worth the same as mine. I can understand you but you can’t understand me
I heard the interview – i am not religious – he is entitled to his view – it was all very considered and fair and balanced.
Seems that one statement is being taken out of context – personally i would be in favour of abortion choices being available to rape victims (so long as they report to gardai and have full investigation, and catch the criminals obviously)
However it is true that killing your own child has to also be traumatic – how could it not be?
You can lie to yourself – tell yourself it was not a living human child, but that is a rationalisation to hide the facts.
The mind knows what is happening – and there are consequences – many women deeply regret abortion – fact.
Some have committed suicide, others self harm, others severe mental difficulties and guilt for rest of their lives.
Personally I cannot kill anything, maybe insects…..but to kill a dog or cat would be unimaginable for me – but to kill you own flesh and blood child – with premeditation – must have a terrible cost.
The subconscious never forgets, and human conscience is a powerful silent force….dont underestimate the cost of taking life.
@HelloGoogleTracking..: Don’t worry, nobody will ever force you to have an abortion.
@HelloGoogleTracking is also a ‘psycho’anal’yst
@HelloGoogleTracking..: So… don’t get one then. Repeal does not equal mandatory abortion.
@HelloGoogleTracking..: That’s an interesting point BUT, the 8th amendment doesn’t prevent abortion, just exports it. Despite the Bishop’s best efforts he will only be able to control poor women and women in care.
But I suppose controlling marginalised women is better than controlling no women at all.
Despite the “child killing” line of argument, practically all pro-lifers say they don’t want to see women prosecuted – and one would think “child killing” is something that should be prosecuted.
So we are being asked to retain a failed law that no one wants to use to prosecute these women with.
I mean – what are you guys really on about?
And why can’t you post your attempts to shock the public under your real name – like someone who really cares about what they believe in?
I mean, why would you think it’s controversial to have an opinion you ostensibly claim protects children?
Seems to me the question is “Who’s lying to themselves here?”.
Who indeed.
@Danny Rafferty:
Thanks Danny – and your points are well made too.
I personally am in favour of a referendum to amend the constitution to allow abortion for FFA/rape/incest.
This repeal movement is about removing human rights to allow abortion on demand.
They use the argument of hard cases – however this is an argument for amendment.
I recommend voting no, then forcing them to listen to rejection of abortion on demand – redraft an amendment adding sensible exceptions – while protecting unborn right to life.
Women will always have the choice to travel anywhere and do anything legal in those jurisdictions. Our constitution however is the record of our values – and abortion on demand should not be one of our values….
It is simply unethical to kill for expediency…some cases yes
@Danny Rafferty:
Posted my under real name is irrelevant – the points I am making are relevant.
There are many social warriors here attacking people personally – attempting intimidation and doxing.
Rights to privacy are very important – and expressing my opinion should not result in extremists attacking me….
If I chose to post anonymously you should respect it – my vote is anonymous for very good reasons.
Attacking people’s identities to control opinion or shame or attack people is coercion – and that is why a right to privacy – and the privacy of the ballot box is fundamental to democracy.
Otherwise you have totalitarianism like is China.
@HelloGoogleTracking..: “This repeal movement is about removing human rights to allow abortion on demand.” -but lets ignore and take away the human right that a woman has to her bodily autonomy..
@HelloGoogleTracking..: Why do so many use the term, abortion on demand? If a woman is pregnant and wants to end it before 12 weeks, why shouldn’t she be able to legally access the necesssary medication and care from her doctor right here in Ireland? How would you know? And what difference does it really make to you? What if you needed access to medicine and doctor’s care, and were denied it because it wasn’t available on demand? And if abortion is baby killing, then i suggest you read the information on citizens.ie; because doctor’s and nurses here are allowed to give all the information needed to go to another country and do it. Smacks of Pontius Pilate hand-washing. Oh the hypocrisy.
@HelloGoogleTracking..: So you’re completely ignoring the considerations of the Citizens’ Assembly and the Dail Committee in relation to the 12 week question: they considered those aspects extensively.
That’s your prerogative, but it would seem the majority of the people trust the Assembly and our Public Representatives at least on this matter.
In relation to the privacy question, you are correct that there are unpleasant people out there who attempt unpleasant things.
Personally I have nothing to hide. Whilst anonymity has some very valid use cases, I find it is terrifically abused on comments sections.
I see nothing wrong in requiring people to publicly stand over their opinion if they are going to broadcast it publicly.
If you want to keep your opinion private, simply do so.
This is why newspapers will not publish anonymous letters to the editor.
Posting an opinion anonymously allows one to make a statement without care for facts, or to deliberately target/bully individuals. It is, in essence, a fantasy opinion: the opinion you would have if no one could effectively argue against you. It is often analogous to scrawling on a wall late at night.
Yes, there are many unpleasant things going on in places like China or Russia, but we do not face those issues here and so it’s not really a valid excuse for hiding.
@sean 114 is so cute: chin up Francis. What’s this, account number 14? I’m flattered kido. The Journo must pay good money ;)
@Danny Rafferty:
You seem to believe in the Nazi slogan “if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear”
Dangerous slope my friend
@Danny Rafferty:
The citizens assembly are not elected – they represent no one – the have no validity under our constitution.
It was a talking shop biased and designed to remove responsibility from our politicians who are elected to do that job.
It was a fraud – the committee was chaired by a rabid abortion advocate – who is shrill and very unfair and hostile….no consideration at all for the child.
@Danny Rafferty:
Do you believe how everyone votes should also be public?
Surely people should be proud of their vote – and all your other arguments apply.
If not why not – think about it – this is a free country
@HelloGoogleTracking..: Nazi? Ruining your credibility is a dangerous slope.
@Ron O’Keefe:
It was invented by Joseph gobbles to justify invading everyone’s privacy and making a surveillance state ….
Simple question – do you value the human right to privacy as per our constitution and EU law – or favour the views of Joseph gobbles.
It was Danny made the point – I just pointed to the ideas origion.
Totally valid and credible my friend
@HelloGoogleTracking..: Thank you. I am aware of who Joseph Geobbels is. I am also aware that whenever people use Godwin’s Law to make a point, it ends up negating that point. I am all for privacy. But I am not all for using Nazi references to defend it. It is not totally valid and credible. As a side note, it predates Geobbels my friend.
@Sean @114: stop deflecting.Thanks
@HelloGoogleTracking..:
“personally i would be in favour of abortion choices being available to rape victims (so long as they report to gardai and have full investigation, and catch the criminals obviously)”
Given the low rates of reporting of rapes, understandable considering how the victims are treated, the fact that it takes years before the any rape case gets to trial, the vast majority of instances never make it to court and the limited timeframe involved, how do you see this working?
@HelloGoogleTracking..: “personally i would be in favour of abortion choices being available to rape victims (so long as they report to gardai and have full investigation, and catch the criminals obviously)” So if they don’t catch the criminal, the victim can’t have an abortion? Seems fair.
This comment section should be entertaining
Not fit to wear his mitre. As a member of an exclusively old-boys society organisation, he haven’t got a clue what he’s talking about
Spoken like a true celibate ignoramus.
Every RC priest learns the origin of the bible and after that if they still spout it being the word of God you know they are lying. That in itself should be a reason never to trust a priest or the organisation.
What is the Catholic church’s view on birth control again? Strange how they don’t promote that view here anymore but are still doing it all over Africa.
Nice clickbait headline though
@Shane Fleming: brilliant. He didn’t say that he believes that abortion is worse than rape, he recounted what he heard from women in that situation. Bravo to the journalist for the word manipulation to suit the Yes agenda though. Priest says abortion is worse than rape is the subliminal message. His comments are bonkers apart from the FFA cases. He needs to extend that concession to rape and incest and then perhaps people will pay heed. But seriously, who is shocked by “priest says abortion is wrong”?
@Sean @114: What he “heard from women”.. the lies from the no side know no bounds. The new my best friend is black but…
@Rob Cahill: Yep, or: ‘I actually know a woman who was raped and kept it and…’. Or the old; ‘I know a woman who regretted her…’. The lie begins when you hear ‘I know women’.
@Rob Cahill: not with you Rob. I’m just saying what he said. Are you accusing him of lying? Just because you don’t agree with someone’s point of view, it doesn’t mean that they’re lying.
The only surprise here is that some people have responded with words like “wow”.
The Irish RCC leaders have always (within living memory) had this stance.
Some undecided people may be influenced by those who (with good cause) seem to have an agenda to “stick it” to the RCC by voting yes.
If you are considering doing the same then please think carefully because landing a direct hit on the RCC, while it certainly will help some women in distressed pregnancy will also have major collateral damage.
A yes vote will normalise the ending of thousands of unborn foetal lives who’s only differentiator from any other baby is to be “unplanned” and in some cases leaving women who felt pressured to conform with the ‘new norm’ in distress for a long time afterwards.
Think carefully.
@Nydon: “women who felt pressured to conform with the ‘new norm’ …” – you really think that abortion will become a kind of fashion that women feel pressured to conform to?
@Brendan O’Brien: Of course some people believe that. That’s what I’ve always been saying. But that’s not the case so there’s no reason to worry but some people just can’t get their heads around that. Any abortion that takes place in this country is one that would’ve been carried out after travelling for one anyway. Some women will have them, others won’t. It’s that simple. The 8th doesn’t stop anythimg so it may as well be repealed, it’s part of the reason I’m voting yes. If it’s going to happen, it’s going to happem one way or another. Your body, your life, your choice, your business, nobody elses.
@Brendan O’Brien: So, to you the complex workings of societal pressure to conform with what is considered common practice or “the best for all involved” or the pressure to bow to demands of a reluctant father to “be rid of it” = “some sort of fashion”?
Really ?
If I could summarise what I’m talking about in a slogan and put it on a trendy colorful badge for you I would, but I’m sorry I can’t.
@Keith McDonagh: Your body, your life, your choice = your problem.
Besides being seen as men being supportive of women’s right to bodily autonomy, it’s also a very convenient position for some men who don’t want to be bothered with such problems or have the decision to abort troubling their conscience in any way.
98% of abortions are for healthy babies to healthy mothers. The yes vote want to talk about the hard case 2% to push their case but we are really voting for abortion on demand. I do not trust politicians. Mary Lou and Leo were prolife when it suited them to get elected. With what has came out with the cervical smear how can anyone trust them to look out for women. I do not want my daughter to grow up in a society that vindicates abortion as a solution to a crisis pregnancy. The intentional taking of the life of another is wrong whether they are in a womb or not. I dont want the doctors nurses and axilliary staff who are prolife to be forced to be a party to killing to keep their job. I dont want my taxpayers money paying for an already overstretched health system to offer abortions.Vote no
Haven’t a breeze… suppose women should bow to your wisdom. What a load of croc
The Bishop is quoted as saying ::: “What I understand from women who have been raped is that the abortion that followed sometimes after rape was far worse than the rape itself.” ::: From WOMEN, why aren’t these women treated with the same care and compassion that the Yes side is pushing for? Don’t they deserve the same respect and for their stories to be heard. I feel the Yes campaigners have no time to listen to the women who have been in crisis pregnancies, chose to have an abortion and it has caused them harm both mentally and physically. These stories deserve to be heard and respected. This referendum has nothing to do with religion. It is proposing to pass legislation to end the life of a healthy baby growing inside a healthy woman. We all started life in the same way. I cannot justify taking that same right I was given away from another human being, no matter what age they are. For that reason I am voting NO. The proposed legislation is too extreme.
@Erin McCormack: FFS that’s nonsense to say that people have no time for people with crisis pregnancies, You can’t claim that because you’ve no reason to say it. I doubt you speak to any pro-choice people at all, you just read stuff online. People do respect those who’ve had a rough time with abortion, YOU’RE the one saying that other people aren’t respecting them and it’s lies. Even if it was true it wouldn’t matter. People need to be free to have choice to have experiences, good or bad.
What is this care and compassion that you speak of? Niamh UiBhriain says women ‘need support’ – explain what this ‘support’ is Erin, what does that mean? Hand holding? Saying ‘I know hun, I know’ and rubbing their back? That’s not good enough. The proposed legislation is too extreme? You wouldn’t tolerate anything else – you would say that no matter what.
You’ll vote no against choice for a woman who was raped because you think their behaviour is wrong. I can’t get over the cruelty and disgusting way you think of other women. What are you actually saying here? What about THOSE womens’ crisis pregnancies? You don’t give a damn about women or children, your comment is a lame, lazy excuse and you prove it by what you say. You’ll actually use a vote to PUNISH those women under criminal law. Who are you helping? Nobody. You’re seeking to restrain innocent women from living free.
You should take a look in the mirror and question yourself, not other women. Not everyone needs to feel as awful about themselves as you do.
@Erin McCormack: “This referendum has nothing to do with religion. It is proposing to pass legislation to end the life of a healthy baby growing inside a healthy woman.”
To be fair, the vote is not only to take decisions of law and order out of the hands of citizens and keep it with advocacy groups and politicians but more importantly it changes the role of the law as a protector of life to being weaponised for one section of society. Dehumanisation language is a secondary issue as the distraction of what life begins doesn’t come into it, it is rather when gender of boy or girl determines their human nature that never again can be dehumanised – in this case it is under 2 months.
You are safe enough in the Journal comment section as the local rednecks love nothing more than to have a good go at the Church but they should get in line with genuine objections .
After that interview, we’ll probably see the Vatican trying to silence it’s clergy rather than their victims.
He’s member of men men men men men men men men, manly, oo hoo hoo oo, men men men….
As a woman I do have to ask the question, why and who’s authority is this bishop offering any view in relation to repealing the 8th amendment? All religions have their own cultures and rituals and should not under any circumstances be offering any opinion on this forthcoming referendum. Instead it would be more humane of all religious society to be supportive in all cases as we have always been brought up to believe that God is a God of compassion and non judgemental. Every woman’s story is unique and they and their medical advisors along with advocacy support should have the freedom to make choices which is right for them and we as a nation should be supportive regardless of the choice made by any woman.
Yet again the RCC digging an even bigger hole to try and climb out of. His reference to 2 families with FFA is hardly a representative survey.
A sample size of two families? He mustn’t be familiar with statistical analysis.
Nothing too shocking or surprising ro hear a bishop say that. Entitled to his opinion I guess. Hopefully the appeal will win so that his opinion will no longer have an effect on those who want/need an abortion.
If social media sites can keep their noses out of this maybe the journal Could shut about it too
@Bart: since when have social media sites kept their noses out of this?
@Bart: If the Bishop did not want to make his view public he would not have said them on one of the most broadcast radio shows.
Would you accept that?
@Bart: It’s your (cough) *choice* to come here.
Facepalm central. I was listening to that interview and it sounded like this excuse for a person lives in a different reality. No empathy. He advocates punishment for victims. Unbelievable.
If that isn’t victim-blaming, then I don’t know what is.
Listening to Lifeline today an experienced nurse who has worked in a general hospital in London for 14years told the programme that she was present in the theatre while abortions took place. 70% if abortions are repeat abortions , T.O.P (Termination of Pregnancy) She stated that women have had anything up to 11 abortions. Late abortions over 14 weeks are carried out on mental health grounds. All a woman has to do is to tell her doctor is that she is going to kill herself if she does not get an abortion some said that they will say whatever it takes to get the doctors to approve the termination. While she did not assist with the terminations she had to be present in the theatre for the woman’s before and aftercare.
@Aine O Connor: its just frightening. Yes voters have the blinkers on when they hear the reality of abortion. They just shout louder and louder about autonomy and choice like a mantra….this is the hard cold ugly truth about the evil abortion factory knocking on our door :-(
@Libby Duffy:
Having listened to what the nurse had to say was chilling and heartbreaking. Abortion is an ugly business in reality. Worth listening to on playback.
Wait till you hear what the ArchBishop will come out with..
I’ll say it yet again. Pro Life = Misogyny. You might not mean it to, but it is. It’s just undeniable.
@Matt Bateman: Not really. It is possible to be a female “pro-lifer”, as you call them, and be a misogynist at the same time; just like it is possible to be a male “pro-lifer” and be a misogynist. Misogyny is not an exclusive club.
@Gav Quinn: this does not encapsulate a large amount of people on the pro life side. We just see the larger amount of harm being done to the fetus in this situation and have more compassion for that side of the argument. We still have compassion for women and many of us wish the situation did not pit a woman against a fetus but it does. Its very simple to say we are misogynist but that isnt true at all. Do you hate fetuses?? No…of course you dont or at least i hope you dont yet the majority of your compassion in this case lies with the mother. We just see this sitiatuon differently unless you are ideologically possessed yourself and this is a step on the march of feminist ideals for you in which case you care nothing for women yourself…just spouting a worldview against a patriarchy.
Has anyone else noticed how one sided the reporting of the journal.ie has been on this issue? Just saying..
@Will: how else would you like them to report on the bishop’s comments?
@Paul Fahey: The Journal is doing a ‘George Hook’ on the bishop for if the man relates the experiences of women after rape as they told him then how can he be faulted for repeating the comments.
“And sometimes, what I understand from women who have been raped, is that the abortion that was followed sometimes after rape was far worse than the rape itself.” Bishop Farrell
The Church and everything else is a distraction from the abdication of responsibilities by thumbsucking citizens who imagine that society can legislate itself into happiness but having lived in the States, all that entitlement/victim culture does is generate an insatiable desire for more and more entitlements.
Talk about giddy boys trying to sound outraged but I just go and research whether what the bishop says is true or not as that is what adults do.
I wonder what this bishop’s answer would be if he were asked should a nun that was raped take the morning after pill as this would be a form of abortion.Also I suspect that there are thousands of No campaigners who would change their minds if a daughter or a wife were raped by a low class thug and subsequently became pregnant.
@Tom Reilly: Would it be different if the thug were high class?
@Tom Reilly: who said that “No campaigners” are not in favour of abortion for rape victims?
@Tony Le Blanc: No.
@Matt Bateman: for anyone who believes that life begins at conception, the morning after pill ends that life, so they should class that pill with any abortion pill that can come afterwards. Also the contraceptive coil. Funny that they’re perfectly legal in Ireland and the prolifers aren’t campaigning against them..
@Matt Bateman: jeezuz I only did leaving cert biology and even I can see how wrong you are. Egg fertilization takes place in the fallopian tubes- this is where new DNA is formed and a zygote and blastocyst develops.- the ‘individual Human life’ that prolifers harp on about. It will implant in the uterus and pregnancy begins if allowed, BUT the coil or morning after pill prevents implantation and the blastocyst is expelled and dies (the coil can also prevent fertilisation). Educate yourself before sounding so pretentious next time.
@Ross Stewart: you’re absolutely right – and think that the RCC still object to both the morning after pill and coil on these very grounds. But they’re against contraception too, so it’s largely ignored. The fact that so many of those who call themselves ‘pro-life’ don’t understand this concept is a real testament to their ignorance…
How could a bishop possible speak for a women in this situation?
Come on journal, keep the abortion good news stories flowing – all the Google execs in California only want to hear stories that preserve the integrity of their political opinions and their ambitions for Bunreacht na hEireann.
@Brian Deane: are you not glad to have an article about a NO campaigners views being aired on the radio?
@Brian Deane: Why is it that when there is a story reflecting the views of one your fellow travelers, you are still complaining?
@Brian Deane: maybe you should complain to the bishop, after all he did go on a national broadcaster with one of Irelands best known journalists and asseterted his views willfully and publicly, did he not.
@We Love Katamari: The difference between a ‘newspaper’ and campaign literature is that a newspaper a. employs journalists and b. gives different sides of a debate so that readers can make their own informed decision. Campaigners, on the other hand, such as the Yes and the No campaigns tend to concentrate solely on selling their own agenda with whatever stories they can lay their hands on to support an argument. Do you think it’s strange that, even for the sake of intellectual honesty, the journal is incapable of covering even one story which might show another side to this? There are lots of stories which the journal choose to ignore simply because they might take from their campaign.
The point is, up to this, most readers were under the impression they were reading some sort of online newspaper staffed by actual journalists – turns out it’s really nothing more than a campaign parrot staffed by pretentious millennials with posh sounding degrees in journalism from the DCU journalism seminary. No wonder journalism has become some such a precarious career.
The pro abortion lobby using the unpopularity of the church to drive home their policy of abortion on demand .every unborn child has a natural right to life .vote no to repeal ,protect both mother and child .mans inhumanity to man has no depth .
As a friend once said… there are times when what’s in your head should just remain there and not be expressed verbally or otherwise… evidently this individual didn’t know my friend…
So is it ok for babies to be dumped in a pit or for young pregnant girls to work in laundries and priests to abuse the young
How dare he.
@Matt Bateman: I woiuldn’t go looking too hard for logic based comments around these parts. Its largely only comments driven by emotion without any common sense attached.
@Matt Bateman: I don’t remember the church apologising.
Vote Yes people! Vote yes. This 21st century.. Woman has rights to choice what they want not what someone peoples belive. So Vote yes if you care your children, sisters, wife and friends.
Pat Kenny should have asked him which one he would rather sign up for.
It was certainly a mis-leading headline.
The bishops comments are in line with Catholic doctrine and therefore should not be a surprise to anyone. I quote Pope Benedict XVI who said in 2006 “the protection of life in all its stages, from the first moment of conception until natural death is a principle that is non- negotiable for the Catholic Church”. In my opinion this is not a bad principle. I respect the comments about cases of exceptional difficulty such as rape and the rare scenario of incest, but the greater good of society should surely be the guiding principle in removing any human rights from our constitution. The history of the U.K experience since 1967 is surely not one that most people would like to emulate. The loss of 190000 healthy children per annum is hardly humane, compassionate or respectful towards human life. Should we not learn from the mistakes of history or are we doomed to repeat them. Personally I am grateful for my own existence, despite the fact that life can be challenging at times. I am glad I was not aborted. My conscience will not allow me to vote any other way than NO.
Take a look overall at the thumbs up count on No comments versus Repeal comments! While I’m sure/fear the No side will increase nearer the vote it gives me some comfort that comments from their supporters are getting few thumbs up in comparison, no matter how adamant they are that they can speak on behalf of women rather than let each woman have choice. They wouldn’t dare tell their own mother to be quiet and speak on their behalf day to day, that would be considered disrespectful and over controlling would it not?!
What does he know about rape or abortion.
When was he raped or had to seek adortion in a foreign country.
He would know more about his child abusing flock, of the last 70 years.
No it isn’t. It really isn’t.
keep digging padre
Read his letter not what has been filtered through Journal.ie before you comment. It is so easy to take comments out of context.
whilst I am not prepared to leave myself open to any comments on either side as to how I will vote, I am struck by the words used in the arguments to vote yes. “Her body her choice ” It reminds me of a young school friend of my daughter . She was fifteen and got pregnant and still in school. My Daughter persuaded her to tell me , which she did and she begged me not to tell her Mother , as she wanted to keep the baby and said her Mother would force her to have an abortion . I have never forgot this girl because I made a decision to tell her parents as she was so young and didn’t fell I had the right to keep that information from them. Sure enough two days later she was brought to England by her Mother and had an abortion against her will. She never spoke to myself or my Daughter again . And less than 12 Months later she had another child with the same boy which she kept. My Point is that people are often bullied forced or manipulated by others , Including boyfriends , Husbands and Parents who don’t want the responsibility or are only thinking about themselves. Choice for Women involves far more than simply changing the law . Sometimes Women in certain circumstances don’t have the choice to say “Yes or No ” someone else has power over the situation no matter what the law says .
@Ava Stapleton:
Thanks for sharing that story Ava, it puts a different perspective on the debate and one certainly worth thinking about.
@Ava Stapleton: That’s sad but I’m cynical. A 15-yr-old has a right to talk to her doctor without a parent present, and if this girl can’t be ‘forced’ not to have unprotected sex, how can she ‘forced’ to go to England and undergo a termination? Coerced, perhaps. But hardly forced….
He’s got his view as do the folks who let him do their thinking for them.
Let’s not get hot and bothered about the views of a mouthpiece for misogynistic organisation, what else were they going to say?
Having said that I do often get a little twinge when I read of senior player in the RCC taking of compassion towards people.
Yet another misogynistic statement from a prat in the clergy…
I see all the pro-entitlement crowd go into slogan overload here and although I just caught the last bit of the conversation on radio in the car, I researched it and it was a secondary comment he heard from women about their experience after rape.
First things first, the vote is entirely a legal issue therefore it concerns every citizen who appreciates the law is a passive entity for citizens who are productive and creative each day . It is not an entitlement vehicle for one side of society to take away life that otherwise receives severe punishment is all other sections of society.
The vote is also a democratic issue as life and death issues are the preserve of each individual citizen and those who wish to abdicate their responsibilities to the Government or lobby groups act out of mob convictions. There is nothing positive about ending life so setting up the Church as a hate device may get some through their day but the impartiality of the law is crucial for a society and not a vehicle for lobbyists and weak politicians who lost control of this issue.
In relation to this referendum I am on the side of retaining the 8th purely because I think the 12 weeks abortion on demand is a step too far…but I have to say these guys just need to give it a rest. We dont need ideological stand points from either side on this. The church…beyond what good or evil it has ever perpetrated in the past can not move away from a rigid mode of thought and cant see outside its own box. We all know what they will say before they say it. Its not news to anybody what they do say…its almost mandatory that they shuffle out…give their little spiel and then shuffle off again and the rest of us get on with actually trying to hash things out and maybe get a bigger and better understanding of what both sides are saying. Its the same with the radical pro-choice side…they have nothing new to say beyond some slogans like “get your rosary off my ovaries”…etc!!! The fringes of both sides should probably be told by the moderates on that side to shut up…get lost and quit forcing their agendas. I for one am saying this to anyone on the pro-life side who is coming at this from a religious angle, with an unyielding and ideological standpoint and feels it is right to make statements like that…you need to just stay quiet. Please…we all know what you are going to say and it has nothing to do with protecting the fetus and everything to do with justifying your world view…and nothing else. And the pro-choice has its radical element too…and they should similarly toddle off with themselves also.
No wonder women are abused in this country for thousands of years!
Bishop Farrell should be made reasonable for his loose mouth!!
What a complete Ass
User no wonder rape is seen as nothing in
How can the Bishop make this statement he is not a woman how does he know how a woman feels after being raped and pregnant
This bungling idiot’s intervention could be a turning point in the campaign.
With all due “what’s left of my respect for managers in the Catholic church ” how would he #%#$#$ well know….
He was born with original sin and apparently still has it.
But selling babies is ok with you.
In a future society, where women and all humanity have been FULLY emancipated it will be possible and indeed necessary (thus moral) to severely curtail abortion but in our present society we must, as a matter of conscience, allow abortion.
@Matt Bateman: Please re read what I said. I said it is possible. I didn’t say that they all are. Female misogynists can often be self hating. But not always; not even usually in the resppect that they recognise it. They fall into a category that colludes with misogynist men. You can disagree, but these are facts that are the results of studies on the topic of female misogyny. I don’t understand why this is a hard concept for you.
What would Bishops know about abortion and rape! 7 year old boys don’t get pregnant!!
Maybe this is the reason a lot of
the clergy only raped boys as they were against abortion
This makes me feel so sick. Dear God… awful
Oh dear , the poor bishop, he must have been raped when he can make a pronouncement like that!
At least he admits to one case where it’s acceptable. That’s more than the unflinching stance of every other priest
I dont think this represents all No Voters. Hes an idiot, but lets be fair, not all no voters are motivated by religion and shouldnt be put in the same bracket as him.
@Gerald OBrien: thank you gerald. My fave comment so far by a yes voter :-)
@Gerald OBrien: most of the people on both sides are actually struggling with this in some fashion or only fall on one side or the other due to their own conscience and could probably see the other sides point in some ways. I can see the point that the average pro-choice person is making and why they are making them…and why they stand by them. And I know its not a simple ideological standpoint for them. Its a problem they have wrestled with and found they land on one side or the other. I would hope most of the pro-choice side could see that a large proportion of us have done the exact same and just come to a different conclusion.
What an idiot of a man.
have your say