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A Yes poster in Dublin. Eamonn Farrell/RollingNews.ie

Council won't reverse cancellation of Eighth Amendment book event in spite of councillors' vote

The Council has said it can’t be seen to be using public funding to support either side.

DUBLIN CITY COUNCIL has said it will not reinstate an event involving writers who have contributed to a book about the campaign to repeal the Eighth Amendment.

The event, a panel discussion, was to feature prominent artists and advocates who contributed to a recent anthology entitled Repeal the 8th.

It was being held as part of the International Literature Festival Dublin, which is due to begin this Saturday. The event in question, titled ‘The Question of the Eighth’, was due to be held next Monday – four days before the Eighth Amendment referendum.

Confirming the cancellation of the event last month, Dublin City Council said it could not use public funding to support any side or appear to support any side of a referendum campaign.

The issue was discussed at a meeting of the Council’s Strategic Policy Committee yesterday morning, and People Before Profit Councillor John Lyons introduced an emergency motion calling for the event to be reinstated at last night’s full monthly meeting of the Council.

The motion called on the council to reverse its move and to acknowledge the “disquiet expressed by many Dublin writers and artists that this decision sets a dangerous precedent for intellectual discourse and artistic freedom”.

The motion was passed, but a senior council official told the meeting that the local authority was not in a position to change its stance because of the legal situation.

Speaking this morning, Lyons insisted the Council was interpreting its legal obligations in the area far too broadly and said the decision could have major implications for artists and events that receive funding through the local authority into the future.

Literary events like this month’s festival may have to be funded “at arm’s length” from the Council in future, as a result of the decision, he said, with other organisations providing the majority of the funding.

Irish Times writer and columnist Una Mullally, who edited the anthology of writing, said she was extremely disappointed by the Council’s initial decision.

In a statement last month she said:

Why is art and culture reflecting discourse around women’s rights being shut down?

Mullally said that it was a “ridiculous situation that writers cannot speak about a book and their writing at a literature festival”.

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82 Comments
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    Mute Debra Diamond
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    May 15th 2018, 12:59 PM

    “The Council has said it said it can’t be seen to be using public funding to support either side.”

    This is entirely sensible and reasonable.

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    Mute Larry Doyle
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    May 15th 2018, 1:02 PM

    @Debra Diamond: How is any different from the same decision by Google last week that resulted in constant complaining from people on the negative side of this debate?

    68
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    Mute Debra Diamond
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    May 15th 2018, 1:08 PM

    @Larry Doyle: taxpayer funded bodies should not use public money to support either side.

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    Mute Larry Doyle
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    May 15th 2018, 1:16 PM

    @Debra Diamond: Last week the negative side were claiming that an evenhanded restriction was targeting them unfairly………now not so much.

    38
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    Mute EvieXVI
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    May 15th 2018, 1:45 PM

    @Larry Doyle: maybe because Google is not state-funded ?

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    Mute Brian Deane
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    May 15th 2018, 2:12 PM

    @EvieXVI: ‘Confirming the cancellation of the event last month, Dublin City Council said it could not use public funding to support any side or appear to support any side of a referendum campaign.’

    Seems fairly reasonable to anyone that tax payers funding shouldn’t be allowed to promote one side in a political campaign. Hardly surprising that it’s some PBP snowflake who is throwing his rattler out of the pram over this. Neither should tax payer funded organisations like the Nat Women’s Council be allowed to involve themselves in political campaigns – they are an unelected body and they no mandate to speak for women. On last night’s debate, O Connor was repeatedly linked with tax payer funded NWCI although going by her performance, probably did more damage to their credibility.

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    Mute Bearded Grump
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    May 15th 2018, 3:50 PM

    @Debra Diamond: Yes it is sensible & reasonable, as was the Google & Facebook action. As long as a measure is applied equally to both sides I don’t think anyone can complain.

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    Mute marg fitzgerald
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    May 15th 2018, 5:43 PM

    @Larry Doyle: Google is not a publicly funded body.

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    Mute Kim Murphy
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    May 15th 2018, 6:32 PM

    @Debra Diamond: and has also been enforced in other places where grant aided buildings were trying to be used for events related to the referendum campaign

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    Mute kevin
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    May 15th 2018, 12:58 PM

    Good to see some people still have integrity. The media would do well to take note and have a bit of balance in their coverage of this issue.

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    Mute Stephen Adam
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    May 15th 2018, 1:06 PM

    @kevin: The “media” aren’t funded by the tax payer.

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    Mute kevin
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    May 15th 2018, 1:16 PM

    @Stephen Adam: why do you have to be funded by the taxpayer to have integrity stephen? Didn’t know that

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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    May 15th 2018, 1:21 PM

    @kevin: Media outlets are entitled to have a particular stance on a particular issue. People never complain about this when they agree with the stance: a conservative will never criticize the Telegraph for being unbalanced.

    This site has been balanced on this issue in any case.

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    Mute kevin
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    May 15th 2018, 1:26 PM

    @Brendan O’Brien: you must be kidding Brendan. The only media outlet that has shown any type of balance in terms of coverage and despite their editorial stance is the Irish Times, which has been surprising. The Journal is clearly pro-repeal, which is fine, but that shouldn’t stop them from providing coverage to both sides. When a media organization decides to ignore one side and only focus on the other then that is where integrity comes into play.

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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    May 15th 2018, 1:31 PM

    @kevin: But that hasn’t happened – it’s just your perception.

    25
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    Mute kevin
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    May 15th 2018, 1:37 PM

    @Brendan O’Brien: No I’m happy that is the reality Brendan. Two simple examples: 1. No coverage of the no march last Saturday 2. No coverage of the press release by the group of retired senior obstetricians last week criticising the Boylan and O Mahony monopoly on the obstetrics view of the 8th.

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    Mute O'Boyle Darragh
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    May 15th 2018, 1:52 PM

    @kevin: Have you posted this comment on theLiberal.ie ?

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    Mute eric nelligan
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    May 15th 2018, 2:19 PM

    @Brendan O’Brien: finally a pro choice person acknowledging that the media is biased and actively pushing abortion.

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    Mute Stephen Adam
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    May 15th 2018, 2:25 PM

    @kevin: it’s not a question of integrity. They’re entitled to have a position on any issue. They’re a private entity.

    I very much doubt you’d deplore bias if it was in your favour.

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    Mute kevin
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    May 15th 2018, 3:06 PM

    @O’Boyle Darragh: no Darragh, why?

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    Mute Debra Diamond
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    May 15th 2018, 12:58 PM

    Between the crushing defeat for the Yes side in last nights debate and this decision by the council poor old Una is not having a good week. No wonder she hasn’t stopped whinging.

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    Mute kevin
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    May 15th 2018, 12:59 PM

    @Debra Diamond: there’ll be no mention of last nights debate in the media Debra

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    Mute Debra Diamond
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    May 15th 2018, 1:00 PM

    @kevin: thejournal’s weekly round up of the Claire Byrne show was notably absent today for some reason. Probably still comforting each other in Journal Towers.

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    Mute The Risen
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    May 15th 2018, 1:02 PM

    @Debra Diamond: They certainly delivered a crushing defeat in relation to noise levels. Their booing and shouting would make Jeremy Kyle blush.

    They didn’t make any good points though.

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    Mute Tweed Cap
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    May 15th 2018, 1:08 PM

    @Debra Diamond:
    To describe an abortion debate in like terms to a football match is a measure of your mentality and how you view this “game”. Grow up.

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    Mute Simon Casey
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    May 15th 2018, 1:13 PM

    @Debra Diamond: I was under the impression that it was a loss for the No side yesterday, when they showed themselves to be heartless and uncaring.
    When the death of Savita Halappanavar was mentioned the audience could be heard laughing, and then whooping with laughter when talking about 12 year old rape victim.

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    Mute kevin
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    May 15th 2018, 1:17 PM

    @The Risen: I agree with you that whooping was inappropriate but they totally out pointed them in the arguments. Even a yes voter would have to concede that they sent out a poor team to debate last night.

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    Mute Mary King
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    May 15th 2018, 1:28 PM

    @Debra Diamond:
    Does she ever stop complaining ?

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    Mute Tweed Cap
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    May 15th 2018, 1:29 PM

    @Simon Casey:
    That’s the problem. They’ve become so morally self-absorbed in the game now it’s become more about what appeases/offends their ego and less about the reason as to why this law is up for repeal. To me, the no side have mutated into the worst possible form of patronizing compassion.

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    Mute kevin
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    May 15th 2018, 1:33 PM

    @Tweed Cap: And the yes side haven’t? This site is full of pompous sneering yes voters who are so convinced of their moral superiority that they are failing to win over undecided voters. The repeal side will probably win but it will be despite the yes campaign, not because of it.

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    Mute Tweed Cap
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    May 15th 2018, 1:41 PM

    @kevin:
    There will be no “winners” Kevin. All abortions are hard cases in the sense that no woman has ever had one for the craic.
    I’ll be voting YES on that basis.

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    Mute MK76
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    May 15th 2018, 1:42 PM

    @Debra Diamond: Haven’t heard such nonsense since Comical Ali back in 2003.

    Do you actually believe your own BS?

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    Mute Gkell1
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    May 15th 2018, 2:22 PM

    @Tweed Cap: Your comment doesn’t come from a reasonable adult as you are voting to hand over your democratic responsibility to interests groups at worst and politicians at best. After kindly reminding me that the Swiss in a referendum asked their electorate directly about a 12 week question to end life in the womb for no reason, you don’t have the courage or the confidence to face the same question directly.

    All that has happened is that the Irish electorate are not entirely given into entitlement politics which makes family life so difficult for those subjected to them. Never has giving up your right as a citizen to influence society sounded so enthusiastic but a No vote reminds the Government never to play politics with the electorate again and especially not on life and death issues.

    The Sinn Fein politician demanded that citizens women-up and man-up so talk about an electorate that must surely has lost its bearings and that politicians are there to make conditions for the electorate as productive and creative as possible for citizens and not to polarise or denigrate them.

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    Mute kevin
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    May 15th 2018, 3:03 PM

    @Tweed Cap: Based on your logic, why not give women a free pass on all laws then? If they can be trusted to always make the right decision then why constrain them. Just make men subject to laws?

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    Mute Stephen Adam
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    May 15th 2018, 3:15 PM

    @kevin: Because this law primarily affects them and not others. The same cannot be said of the vast majority of other laws.

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    Mute kevin
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    May 15th 2018, 3:19 PM

    @Stephen Adam: do aborted babies not have fathers Stephen?

    16
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    Mute Tweed Cap
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    May 15th 2018, 3:28 PM

    @Gkell1:
    I don’t care about politicians or interest groups. This is a matter for all individuals that’s extends beyond even your very important opinions Gerry.
    It’s about grownups extending other grownups the opportunity to make grown up decisions without you or anyone else sticking their garden hose in.
    I understand that makes no sense to you but I can’t help you with that.

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    Mute Stephen Adam
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    May 15th 2018, 3:46 PM

    @kevin: How very sarcastic and clever – or wait, maybe just juvenile?

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    Mute kevin
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    May 15th 2018, 4:41 PM

    @Stephen Adam: that wasn’t my intention Steven, just stating a fact

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    Mute Stephen Adam
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    May 15th 2018, 5:18 PM

    @kevin: you didn’t state anything – you asked a question – with an absurdly obvious answer. What you were actually doing is making a sarcastic implication.

    Of course the point isn’t really as sensible as your sarcasm would suggest.

    6
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    Mute Pconor
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    May 15th 2018, 1:08 PM

    Well done DCC….Common sense prevails…VOTE NO to send the government back to the drawing board and focus on just the difficult cases…

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    Mute Gkell1
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    May 15th 2018, 1:45 PM

    @Pconor: To hear the leader of the main political party use a rape sentence with
    a No vote is dismaying as the Government will still be here after the vote whatever way it turns out.

    I don’t know what they expect from the electorate who can articulate that it is a law and order issue where compassionate medical issues where no willful intent to end life for no reason is acceptable but the 12 week business cannot be wrapped up in sugar coated or emotional language.

    Is it so bad that they don’t see why our society may not wish to turn law and order from a protector of life in this State into an entitlement vehicle ?.

    29
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    Mute MK76
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    May 15th 2018, 1:46 PM

    @Pconor: Perhaps if the No side cared about the so called “hard cases”, then we could have an honest debate.

    Really compassionate stuff saying “no one was harmed” in the Mrs P case and refusing to answer questions about cases of rape.

    Utterly disgusting view of the world from the No side, as represented in last night’s shouting match.

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    Mute wrong side
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    May 15th 2018, 1:04 PM

    ‘Stop policing my body’ That’s the essence of the yes campaign, in other words, ‘Let me do whatever I want’. It’s not about the hard cases, it’s about being free from any consequences or sense of responsibility for your actions. That can only be good longterm….

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    Mute Debra Diamond
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    May 15th 2018, 1:10 PM

    @wrong side: and of course the poster makes no mention of the other little body involved, the one which will be killed. It is as if the baby just doesn’t exist to these people.

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    Mute Coco86
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    May 15th 2018, 1:26 PM

    @Debra Diamond: These people? What are your thoughts on women who have had an abortion already? Seriously now just let loose id love to hear your opinion.

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    Mute Vigo The Carpathian
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    May 15th 2018, 1:49 PM

    @Coco86: Well they think abortion is murder so it’s logical to conclude that they think that women who have abortions are murders…

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    Mute Karen Wellington
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    May 15th 2018, 1:59 PM

    @Vigo The Carpathian: i think we’d all like to hear it Debra’s own words.

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    Mute Vigo The Carpathian
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    May 15th 2018, 2:15 PM

    @Karen Wellington: Sorry… I think I would too actually.

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    Mute Debra Diamond
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    May 15th 2018, 2:31 PM

    @Coco86: “these people” refers to those who support the killing of babies in the womb for any reason at all up to 3 months and potentially up to 6 months under mental health grounds as proposed by the government. Barbarians.

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    Mute Deborah Behan
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    May 15th 2018, 4:29 PM

    @wrong side: yet you’re happy to do the policing of every single woman’s body that you know forcing them to become parents against their wishes, health, circumstances? Wow! The best person to know what to do with a pregnant woman’s body is that woman not you or I.

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    Mute Coco86
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    May 15th 2018, 5:36 PM

    @Debra Diamond: ok thanks for clarifying your these people ignorance. Now please tell me what you think of women who have already had an abortion.

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    Mute Rita Farrell
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    May 15th 2018, 1:11 PM

    I stand behind the Council. They have every right to make what they feel is the right decision so close to the referandum. Nobody is censoring writers, they are simply saying they will not support or encourage either side

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    Mute Dj
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    May 15th 2018, 1:08 PM

    Is Una Mullaly ever happy? She always seems to be bitter about something.

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    Mute kevin
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    May 15th 2018, 1:21 PM

    @Dj: when you are being constantly oppressed by the white European patriarchy? how could anyone be happy, poor una!

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    Mute Frank McGlynn
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    May 15th 2018, 1:36 PM

    @Dj: Bitterness and hatred are key ingredients of feminism. USA is a feminist.

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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    May 15th 2018, 1:45 PM

    @Frank McGlynn: Yet all the bitterness here is from misogynists.

    And Una Mullally has plenty to be bitter about.

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    Mute Frank McGlynn
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    May 15th 2018, 2:39 PM

    @Brendan O’Brien: Are you Una in disguise? Disagreeing with you or Una does not constitute bitterness or misogyny. BTW What does she have to be bitter about? – I am talking here about her misandrist bitterness.

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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    May 15th 2018, 3:03 PM

    @Frank McGlynn: Only misogynists constantly use the word ‘misandrist’. Why not admit to it?

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    Mute Kevin Tyrrell
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    May 15th 2018, 7:24 PM

    @Brendan O’Brien: the mirror to that claim could also be levelled at you Brendan…to quote you only 2 posts ago “all the bitterness here is from misogyinists”. Would you care to admit you are a misandrist???

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    Mute Frank McGlynn
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    May 16th 2018, 1:54 AM

    @Brendan O’Brien: and only misandrists use the word misygonyst. You walked into that one.

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    Mute Larry Doyle
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    May 15th 2018, 12:59 PM

    If the NO people could get some talented writers together to support their cause and were refused in the same way this group were, can you imagine the bile filled outrage from John McGurk, David Quinn, the Healy-Reas and their fellow travelers?

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    Mute Debra Diamond
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    May 15th 2018, 12:59 PM

    @Larry Doyle: hypothetical whataboutism, that is a new one.

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    Mute Frank McGlynn
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    May 15th 2018, 1:41 PM

    DCC are absolutely correct in taking this decision. They represent all citizens of Dublin who are as divided on this issue as the rest of the population. It’s a pity Trade Unions did not show the same respect for all their members.

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    Mute brian boru
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    May 15th 2018, 1:01 PM

    Consistent dirty campaign by the No campaign between the communications branch of the church RTE last night and the blocking of events that don’t support their message the No side have certainly lost any hope of holding the high moral ground

    #repeal #sellrte

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    Mute Seamus Fitzpatrick
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    May 15th 2018, 1:16 PM

    @brian boru: Interestingly this article by the journal is about a cancelled Yes side event but the journal did not mention in any articles to date the No side rally that took place last Saturday. So much for balanced coverage.

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    Mute TLH
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    May 15th 2018, 1:31 PM

    @Seamus Fitzpatrick: This advertisement for Repeal was brought to you by thejournal.ie

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    Mute Anthony Gallagher
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    May 15th 2018, 1:42 PM

    Fair play to the council ,its the right thing to do .

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    Mute Gkell1
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    May 15th 2018, 1:25 PM

    I felt sorry for both sides in the spectacle on television last night as the structure of the vote is to jump from medical issues to legal issues and back again as opposed to the clear legal core of the agenda dumped unfairly on the Irish electorate. I would perhaps have mentioned that the structure lends itself to soap opera politics in a Jeremy Kyle or Dr Phil type atmosphere many times before but again, this is what happens when entitlement politics and interest groups pressure Governments, not just here but in other countries.

    A No vote would only send it back to the Government to deal with properly instead of trying to force the electorate to abdicate their responsibilities so the slogan ultimately trust politicians vs trust electorate and be seen to be that.

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    Mute Bearded Grump
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    May 15th 2018, 3:41 PM

    @Gkell1: “A No vote would only send it back to the Government to deal with properly instead” No it won’t, it will just keep everything the same for the next 20 years at least.

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    Mute Chris Martin
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    May 15th 2018, 1:56 PM

    Heres a question. Whats the difference between an abortion at 6 months and an induced delivery at 6 months. Genuine question.

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    Mute Karen Wellington
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    May 15th 2018, 2:03 PM

    @Chris Martin: can you give that figure in weeks please? The current limit for viability is recognised at 23-24 weeks.

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    Mute Chris Martin
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    May 15th 2018, 2:57 PM

    @Karen Wellington: Hi Karen what difference would it make?

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    Mute Bearded Grump
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    May 15th 2018, 3:45 PM

    @Chris Martin: Under the proposed legislation at 6 months an abortion would only be allowed in the case of FFA. All other cases have to be assisted delivery.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-will-seek-to-ban-late-term-abortions-1.3440056

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    Mute Karen Wellington
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    May 15th 2018, 4:18 PM

    @Chris Martin: pregnancy is measured in weeks not months, 1 or 2 weeks can make a lot of difference to the development of a foetus depending on the level of gestation. 6 months covers 21-24 weeks, as I said 23-24 week are the acceptable limit if viability.
    At 23 weeks a foetus has a 20 to 35% chance of survival, 24-25 week foetus has 50 to 70% chance of survival and 26-27 weeks foetus has a 90% chance of survival.
    A foetus’ chances for survival increases 3-4% per day between 23 & 24 weeks of gestation and about 2-3% per day between 24 & 26 weeks of gestation. After that the rate slows down but the survival rate is already quite high.

    No doctor is going to perform an abortion of a healthy foetus once it’s viable, which is why this ‘abortion up to 6 months on demand’ lie is so ridiculous

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    Mute Karen Wellington
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    May 15th 2018, 4:24 PM

    @You Can’t Say That: did you not learn how many days are in the months? Here’s a riddle for a moron that might keep you busy; a human gestation lasts 9 months but also (more accurately) 40 weeks, *how can this be*?

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    Mute Chris Martin
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    May 15th 2018, 5:15 PM

    @Karen Wellington: Ok Thanks. How is an abortion performed on a non viable foetus? Again genuine question. Is the foetus born alive and allowed to die or is the termination carried out while the foetus is in the womb and then delivered?

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    Mute Karen Wellington
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    May 15th 2018, 6:02 PM

    @Chris Martin: If you take 21 weeks as the example:

    Inducing labour of a non-viable foetus will result in its death, it has no lungs (they aren’t even fully developed past the limit of viability, that’s why doctors give you steroids if they think early labour was a real possibility). It’s not the preferred option for medical professionals at this stage.

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    Mute Karen Wellington
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    May 15th 2018, 6:02 PM

    @Chris Martin: Dilation and evacuation/D&E involves opening the cervix and emptying the uterus using surgical instruments and suction.
    Abortion can also be induced by intact dilation and extraction/IDX (intrauterine cranial decompression), this involves surgical decompression of the fetus’s head before evacuation (crushing the partially formed skull), it’s also known as “partial-birth abortion”, it’s been banned in the US, and I doubt we need concern ourselves with it over here.

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    Mute Seamus Fitzpatrick
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    May 15th 2018, 1:07 PM

    Interesting the

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    Mute yildun
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    May 15th 2018, 1:36 PM

    Maybe we should hold the vote in Israel The CC do not seem to have a problem choosing a side in the Middle east

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    Mute CmacC
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    May 16th 2018, 2:30 AM

    “ it WAS being held as part of an event …..next Saturday….”

    Don’t you have a sub-editor?

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