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WITH POLLING DAY in the referendum on the Eighth Amendment a little over a week away, discussion has turned to what would happen in the event of a yes vote.
While a no vote would retain the amendment and leave the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013 as the country’s only law around the provision of abortion, a yes vote would lead to the government progressing its legislation.
Much of the discussion has focused on any possible similarities with the UK’s system, but is that what Ireland’s law proposes?
24 week question
Much of the debate around the proposed law is around whether or not a woman will be able to get an abortion up to six months of pregnancy.
The draft legislation put forward by Health Minister Simon Harris proposes to legalise abortion up to 12 weeks in any circumstances.
After 12 weeks, the legislation says a termination of pregnancy would be lawful if two medical practitioners certify the following three things at the same time:
Viability is at approximately 23 to 24 weeks, which is roughly six months pregnancy. The two doctors – one of whom would be an obstetrician – would have to agree that all of these conditions were being met. Obstetrics experts say that these would be in a small number of extreme and exceptional cases.
In the UK, abortion is available up to 24 weeks under different grounds. Its Abortion Act 1967 says:
In the UK in 2016, 92% of abortions were carried out at under 13 weeks gestation and 81% were carried out at under 10 weeks.
The key difference between the UK’s Ground C and Ireland’s proposed Head 4 is the use of the word serious, which is absent from the 1967 legislation of our neighbour.
While the Irish legislation would be similar to the UK legislation in some aspects, it actually has more in common with laws in other European countries, most notably Austria and Portugal.
Waiting period
In the UK, there is no mandatory waiting period to obtain an abortion. In Ireland’s case, a woman would have to wait three days for what Taoiseach Leo Varadkar called “reflection and counselling” before undergoing the procedure.
If a woman who is less than 12 weeks pregnant wants to terminate her pregnancy, she will have to visit her GP. After that initial consultation, she will have to wait three days and return for a second visit before she is prescribed the necessary pills.
It is envisioned that she will take the first pill while in the presence of her doctor, and the second two or three days later at home.
This is similar to Portugal, which legalised abortion by popular vote in 2007, and the Netherlands which has a five-day waiting period.
12 weeks
While a 12-week gestational limit for termination without restriction puts Ireland beyond a couple of European countries, the proposed legislation puts the limit at half that of the UK and 50% less than Sweden’s.
That limit is in line with what the Oireachtas Eighth Amendment Committee recommended.
Rates
More than 170,000 women and girls have travelled to another country for an abortion since 1980. Some 3,265 females travelled from Ireland to the UK for abortions in 2016, the latest year for which we statistics are available. That means Irish females accounted for almost seven in 10 (67.9%) of the non-resident abortions carried out in Britain that year.
This compares with 63,900 live births in the same year.
In the HSE’s briefing document to the Citizens’ Assembly, it puts the 2014 Irish rate of abortion at 3.9 per 1,000 women aged 15 to 44. However, this is a difficult figure to quantify because many women in Ireland take abortion pills and it is believed many who travel do not give Irish addresses.
Estimates have put the Irish rate anywhere between 5.7 and 7.7 per 1,000 women.
The lowest abortion rate of our European neighbours is Austria, which has been between 1 and 1.2 for the past decade.
Conversely, the UK’s rate is over 20 per 1,000 women and Estonia’s is 25.65 per 1,000 women.
Around Europe
Here is an overview of how abortion law is applied across Europe.
AUSTRIA
Available up to three months of a pregnancy, without restriction.
After 12 weeks, abortions can be performed if there is a physical or mental health threat to the woman, if the patient is under 14 or in cases of fatal foetal abnormalities. Austria’s conscientious objection law is similar to Ireland’s proposal – no medical professional will be made perform an abortion unless the life of the woman is at risk.
The laws are more similar to Ireland’s proposed legislation than when comparing it to the UK’s.
Rate: 1.27 per 1,000 women.
BELGIUM
Available up to 12 weeks; afterwards in case of serious health concerns for the mother or baby.
A woman can receive an abortion after receiving counselling six days prior and must check in with her doctor in the weeks after. Later terminations are allowed in cases where the life of the woman is at risk or if the foetus shows signs of severe and incurable illness or disability.
Rate: 11.45
BULGARIA
Available up to 12 weeks; beyond that if the life of the mother is at risk, or for severe foetal malformations. Between 12 and 20 weeks, abortion is only permitted for women who suffer certain illnesses. After that it is in the case where the life of the woman is at risk or severe impairment to the foetus.
Rate: 24.85
CROATIA
Available up to 10 weeks; thereafter for medical reasons or in the case of rape. After 10 weeks, procedures must be approved by a board consisting of a gynaecologist, another physician and either a social worker or nurse. This commission can decide if the abortion is needed to save the woman’s life or preserve her health either in pregnancy or during delivery. It can also decide in cases of FFAs, rape or incest. The commission’s decision can be appealed to a second commission, whose decision is final.
Rate: 4.7
THE CZECH REPUBLIC
Available up to 12 weeks; after that in case of serious health concerns for the mother or baby or rape. Medical interventions can be made up to 24 weeks to save the health or life of the mother or if the foetus is not viable.
Rate: 12.08
DENMARK
Available up to twelve weeks. After that the abortion has to be approved by the authorities who take into account exceptional circumstances, like danger to the mother, poor socioeconomic circumstances, rape, incest or risk of birth defects.
Rate: 17.72
ESTONIA
Available up to twelve weeks, and up to 22 weeks for medical reasons and/or for women younger than 15 or older than 45 if there is a risk to either the child or mother.
Rate: 25.65
FINLAND
Available up to twelve weeks. A doctor’s authorisation is necessary but in practice is systematic. Beyond that health and social authorities decide on a case by case basis. Generally, two doctors will need to approve abortions after 12 weeks. Beyond 20 weeks, a threat to the life of the mother is the only reason.
Rate: 11.33
FRANCE
Available up to twelve weeks, and beyond that for medical reasons. In those cases, two doctors must sign off on the procedure, certifying that it is being done to protect the mental or physical health of the woman or foetus. In 2015, France abolished its seven-day “cool-off” period.
Rate: 20.79
GERMANY
Abortion in Germany is permitted in the first 12 weeks upon condition of mandatory counselling, during which counsellors will try to dissuade the woman. Afterwards in cases of medical necessity, but not in case of rape.
Rate: 8.72
GREECE
Available up to 12 weeks, with later abortions in the case of rape or incest up to 19 weeks and foetal abnormalities up to 24 weeks.
Rate: 10.48
HUNGARY
Available up to 12 weeks; up to 18 weeks if the patient is younger than 18, beyond that for medical or social reasons. Permission is required from a commission, which means women go through counselling, a waiting period and must get a certificate from a midwife.
Rate: 19.72
ITALY
Available up to twelve weeks for socioeconomic or medical reasons; beyond that in cases where the life of the mother is at risk or if the foetus is at risk of severe malformation.
Rate: 10.87
LATVIA
Available up to twelve weeks (up to 16 in case of rape) and after that in cases where the life of the mother is at risk or if the foetus is at risk of severe malformation.
Rate: 16.97
MALTA
Abortion is completely banned. Women found to be having abortions face from 18 months to three years in prison.
Rate: 0.87
NETHERLANDS
Available up to 21 weeks on demand and up to the 24th week if there is an urgent medical need. The abortion must take place in one of the 17 abortion clinics or 100 or so hospitals authorised by the government. Women must wait for five days before obtaining an abortion.
Rate: 12.10
POLAND
Abortion is only allowed in case of rape, incest, danger to the life of the mother or the irreversible malformation of the foetus, in the first 12 weeks.
Rate: 0.14
PORTUGAL
Available up to ten weeks on request, and up to 16 weeks in cases of rape. It can be performed up to 24 weeks if the child will be born with severe complications. There is a three-day waiting period.
Rate: 9.64
ROMANIA
Available up to 14 weeks electively and afterwards for medical reasons. Women can receive abortions up to 24 weeks in cases where their health or lives are at risk.
Rate: 20.62
SPAIN
Available up to 12 weeks on request and up to 24 weeks in cases of serious risk to the woman or fatal foetal abnormalities.
Rate: 12.98
SWEDEN
Available up to 18 weeks, and beyond that on the authorisation of the health and social services, usually for medical reasons. Permission is usually granted in cases where the health of mother or child is impacted. However, if the foetus is viable abortion is not allowed. This means there are effectively very few abortions after the 22nd week that are not linked to foetal abnormalities.
Rate: 25.35
UNITED KINGDOM
Available up to 24 weeks, and afterwards for medical reasons.
In Northern Ireland, the woman’s health must be at risk.
Rate: 20.21
Differences to the UK
The comparison to the UK is understandable, with the Save The 8th campaign saying a Yes vote “legalises abortion on the same grounds as the British model right up until the baby is six months”.
But it’s not exactly that cut and dried.
The Irish proposal has a much tighter gestational limit than the UK, but No campaigners fear the section of the bill which allows terminations be carried out until viability would be abused.
This section of the bill allows a termination if two doctors certify that a woman’s mental or physical health is seriously risked by continuing the pregnancy.
There is a similar provision in the UK abortion legislation. It allows for a termination in cases where the pregnancy has not exceeded the 24th week [the six month of pregnancy], but where the continuance of pregnancy would involve greater risk to the woman’s physical or mental health than if it was terminated.
As previously stated, the key difference between the UK’s Ground C and Ireland’s proposed Head 4 is the use of the word serious.
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Oh the scourge of humanity. Its disgusting and unfortunately so many of the victims died long ago and the predators and those who covered it up are dead also never to be given justice. I would say workhouses back in day were rampant.
And yet the BBC and the like were reporting on Irish sex abuse, yet all the while knew it was happening there.
Can anybody tell if Kincora House in Belfast is going to be investigated or not, in this or any (NI) investigation?
I would say there is alot of missing children due to these abuses from a long time back. BBC are disgusting..
I hope it is going to be investigated. SF i believe have called on Kenny to do an all Island investigation.
Martin McGuinness wrote to the government about just that last year, he didn’t even get an acknowledgement letter back.
British authorities, over the next few years, are doing a massive investigation into abuse which occurred all over the UK.
It was announced, just last week, that Kincora would NOT be included in this inquiry, despite the requests of victims. MI5 will not be compelled to give evidence in the Kincora investigation, which will greatly reduce its effectiveness.
This was quite an important story totally ignored by the Irish media. In the past few days the media has been in an uproar, about abuse within the Republican movement. Its true that Sinn Fein may have questions to answer – but why the almost complete media silence when it comes to Kincora & Westminster?
Double standards from the Irish media.
No crime should be investigated until all crimes are investigated.
I applaud Sinn Fein on stonewalling this issue and turning a blind eye to internal information by calling on random members of the public to come forward instead with anything incriminating before making the first move.
The movement must be protected.
so jammin you are saying that lord londonderry knew about more abuse and did nothing about it? truly shocking yet again
@Zoe
Theresa Villiers said that the UK Government would co-operate with the Northern Ireland Historical Abuse Inquiry with regard to Kincora. Today’s Tories are less likely to cover-up child abuse than those of the 1970s and 1980s were.
The Kincora case has no effect on the Republic.
“The Kincora case has no effect on the Republic.”
Pretty myopic and cold assessment there ciaran. Weren’t you the bloke excusing the israelis bombarding those children on the beach in Gaza last summer?
@werejammin too busy deciding what insults him and joanie could try and throw at SF to bother actually putting anything helpful together.
“Sir” Saville and “Sir” Harris were not working alone it seems.
It looks more like a dark demonic culture within the upper echelons of British society.
Double standards no not really. The media have no standards and are merely the mouth pieces of government and vested interests.
At least they’re making some sort of effort, wheres the investigation into the Dalkey house of horrors, where members of the Gardai themselves are implicated in child abuse. It was mentioned elsewhere that two of the gardai alleged to have carried out the abuse are still alive, and while thats the case no proper investigation will be allowed.
I hear you WJ. The SF/IRA internal police, that fine organisation and operator of Kangaroo Courts, also need to be investigated. Their activities in County Louth in 2002 reek of protecting valuable members from proper prosecution and intimidating witnesses.
Will you join me in calling for a full investigation?
Using an unrelated child abuse story to score cheap points against your political opponent, you should run for your party, fine gael, in the next election. You’ll fit right in.
Stay classy ‘johngahan’
deflection of the poorest kind jammin. the SF cult of abuse cover ups has being brutally exposed this week. more victims to coming forward psni have said 30 live investigations into SF cover ups going on at the minute. how many more victims do you think there is? do you even care one jot about them? have you shiners any morals at all?
@ patjoejoe123: “do you even care one jot about them? ”
Considering you were banned under your original fake name ‘kenneth’ for the disgusting comments you were making about a victim of child sex abuse, Aine Adams, I’d try find some humility if I were you.
WJ, by unrelated child abuse story – are you referring to your introduction of the Dalkey case into this thread to score cheap points? Or were you ignoring your own contribution?
Hypocrisy really is the SF calling card.
I mentioned a possible coverup by our own police service in relation to an article to a coverup by the british police service. Hardly unrelated. You’re the one scoring filth political points using the very serious issue of child abuse as a means to an end. Its pretty vile actually.
So your self-appointed police service and judiciary in co Louth 2002 are off-limits in your mind. Why?
Is one rape different from another?
Considering your dear leader enda has created in full public view a hierarchy of child sexual abuse victims, depending on whether or not he can use them as a political football, I’d check the hypocrisy of your question.
You’re wriggling.
Exaro News UK have done trojan work on this. They have shown this is a monumental cover up from the highest of the high.
Just like the HSBC tax scandal. The government lied there too to protect the powerful and did not investigate.
yes, the Exaro news website have been doing excellent work on this major story. Much of the British media are controlled by the establishment, and have not been giving this story the reporting it deserves.
The list of articles on the Exaro link below is just the tip of the iceberg, to the complexity of this story. It goes right to the top, a former EU commissioner, former British Home secretary, etc.
Homicide investigations have also been launched. it does not merely involve the abuse but also the possible murder of children. It is too horrific to think about, but the truth will have to come out at some stage.
It is truly the biggest ever scandal of British political history. Westminster are trying to control the story, gradually ‘drip feeding’ it, via the media, into the public domain, but we do not know where this will all end, or where it will lead to.
http://www.exaronews.com/content/child-sex-abuse-fernbridge-and-fairbank-exaro-story-thread
Some very senior British political figures implicated in this scandal, many of whom were in Margaret Thatcher’s government.
This scandal also relates to Ireland – in that abuse by British political elite was said to have occurred in Kincora House Belfast, and used for blackmail purposes by MI5.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/kincora-army-ferried-top-mi5-officer-to-two-meetings-at-boys-home-30932643.html
Jimmy Saville is in Hell laughing his h*le off….
And they will meet the the standards they themselves will set. What a joke.
About time it is too for such an investigation. Rumors about British ‘high profile’ establishment figures involved in these scandals have been around for many years now but always previously dismissed by the mainstream media. Royal patronage, UK parliamentary privilege and the BBC have a lot to answer for in this cover up?
Both governments have plenty to hide. Fine Gael & Fianna Fail covered up child abuse and protected the Catholic Church for all the decades they were in governments. They are only interested in Maria Cahill and Paudie McGahon because they see Sinn Féin as a political threat. Pure hypocrisy. They will get their answer in the polls.
Agreed Larry, this is manifestly true.
Thankfully An Garda Siochana took decisive, brave and immediate action when presented with complaints and evidence of clerical child sexual abuse in Ireland.
The great thing about Ireland is that we never cover up our scandals.
You obviously have never heard of Sarah Bland
Anthony your a plank.
Wouldn’t happen here.
You must have an inferiority complex if that is your first response to this disgusting betrayal of victims.
It actually did happen here, we just investigated them before the British.
No matter where it happens – IT IS WRONG. No matter who does it – IT IS WRONG. Covering up for the perpetrators IS WRONG. Moving abusers to put other children at risk is WRONG. Pouring vitriolic abuse on victims who have decided to forgo their anonymity IS WRONG. Refusing to deal with allegations quickly IS WRONG. Operating Kangaroo courts IS WRONG.
Is dragging abuse victims through the courts and making them face financial destitution wrong as well Mark?
how would you rate your deflection from the disgraceful cover up of abuse by SF jammin? pretty poor i would say. cult is in bother big time
Rolf Harris, Gary Glitter and Jimmy Saville were hit with a “Tsunami Of Smears”.
Fortunately they saw jail time after a proper investigation was carried out.
For others it constitutes a frenzied round of applause and robust defence at their Ard Fheis.
Jimmy Saville saw jail time?
The devil has him in a cage
Ah, I see, in your rush to make tawdry comments about your political opponents, you didn’t have your facts straight.
You really will make a fine FG man when you leave college ‘john’.
Have you really contemplated what IRA rape victims went through, or is this just a game of bluff and it will all blow over?
have your say