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Poll: Should women get menstrual leave for severe period pains?

Menstrual leave is already in place in other countries and some private companies.

PUBLIC SERVANTS ARE to discuss today whether female employees should be offered specific time off for when they have severe period pains.

The Irish Independent reports that a ‘menstrual leave’ motion will be tabled at trade union Fórsa’s conference today. The “progressive proposal” of up to three days leave aims to recognise the pain suffered by women.

Other countries like China, and some private companies such as Nike, have their own form of menstrual leave (more on this here).

So we’re asking, do you think women should be given menstrual leave for when they suffer from severe period pains?


Poll Results:

Yes (5965)
No (5837)
I don't know (1154)

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187 Comments
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    Mute Matt Donovan
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    May 18th 2018, 10:04 AM

    I’m definitely pulling up a chair & getting the popcorn ready for this one.

    901
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    Mute Niall O'Neill
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    May 18th 2018, 10:15 AM

    @Matt Donovan: I’m waiting for the reaction from the conservative religious men who post negatively about women’s issues on the Journal !! They have been silent so far!

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    Mute Smidgen Dublin
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    May 18th 2018, 10:15 AM

    @Matt Donovan: Indeed. In some cultures they have menstrual huts where women are banished until their periods are finished. They’re considered dirty. This practice is wrong. However, I studied Anthropology in the late 80s and thought this idea could be adapted into modern western culture where women during their period could choose to stay in a menstrual hostel away from kids, partners, etc and chill out for a few days. BTW Lovin the ‘Unlikely to be perceived as toxic’ (3.0/10) reading on my comment!

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    Mute Veronica
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    May 18th 2018, 10:22 AM

    @Smidgen Dublin: from the sounds of some of the comments I can’t help but feel some of the lads would welcome menstruation huts. What is up with the contempt for women in some of the comments here??

    49
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    Mute Jamie Jj Tobin
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    May 18th 2018, 10:30 AM

    @Veronica: build huts, not a chance with the skills shortage…. Tents maybe a better option!

    59
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    Mute Ooby Dooby
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    May 18th 2018, 10:58 AM

    @Matt Donovan: Popcorn comments gettin’ old Matt

    26
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    Mute John Campbell
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    May 18th 2018, 11:12 AM

    @Ooby Dooby: agreed! Matt must have sacks of popcorn beside him!

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    Mute Noreen Waters
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    May 18th 2018, 12:51 PM

    @Matt Donovan: Dear Matt you may also wish to consider, which I am sure you will, early retirement for the older women who are experiencing other life occurrences. After all its only fair to ensure we all are included in this wonderful democratic Republic of opportunity that is age-friendly and all that jazz. You may as well come onboard as it is only a matter of time.

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    Mute Andy Lawrence Moore
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    May 18th 2018, 11:23 PM

    @Matt Donovan: Yup . Who;ll admit to being on the obvious wrongitude & who maybe paying for submission ??

    1
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    Mute Permo Dermo
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    May 19th 2018, 12:22 AM

    @Matt Donovan: yes if their work requires flying a plane

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    Mute Cheryl Mellett
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    May 18th 2018, 10:10 AM

    Very grey area that is open to being abused if brought in I would imagine.

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    Mute I like this cushion
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    May 18th 2018, 10:39 AM

    @Cheryl Mellett: You’re lucky you’re a woman or you’d have to deal with Veronica for that comment.

    246
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    Mute Veronica
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    May 18th 2018, 10:58 AM

    @I like this cushion: lol, no one has to “deal with me”, just don’t reply.

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    Mute I like this cushion
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    May 18th 2018, 11:00 AM

    @Veronica: Fine.

    52
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    Mute I like this cushion
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    May 18th 2018, 11:00 AM

    @Veronica: I won’t.

    55
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    Mute I like this cushion
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    May 18th 2018, 11:58 AM

    @Veronica: Hey Ronny I actually have a question, I’d be interested to hear your answer. What are your thoughts on allowing women to carry weapons, say a concealed firearm, thereby removing the physical advantage the average man has over the average women. Levelling the playing field so to speak. Would you be in favour of something like that?

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    Mute Veronica
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    May 18th 2018, 12:14 PM

    @I like this cushion: definitely not.

    15
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    Mute I like this cushion
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    May 18th 2018, 12:27 PM

    @Veronica: Taser, pepper spray etc? I really wish my wife was allowed to carry a taser at the very least, to protect herself walking to car after work etc. Keep trying to get her to take some self defence classes…. I’m surprised at your response. Have to say though, I’d rather talk to you than some nutter who thinks that men and women are exactly the same. At least you acknowledge there are biological and psychological differences, generally, between the sexes. And I understand your rationale but just so you know, it’s the same rationale that white supremacists use to justify the idea an ethnostate i.e statistical realities justifying oppression/negative feelings towards a whole demographic.

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    Mute Gary Donkerty
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    May 18th 2018, 1:31 PM

    @Cheryl Mellett: exactly. Women cannot be trusted.

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    Mute Tony Murphy
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    May 18th 2018, 4:55 PM

    @I like this cushion: once they hand them in once a month that’s fine with me

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    Mute prop joe
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    May 18th 2018, 10:04 AM

    Will they get paid? No work no pay. But unpaid leave should be permitted.

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    Mute Boyne Sharky
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    May 18th 2018, 11:47 AM

    @prop joe: That’s a valid point, it’s worth asking if these up to 36 additional sick days every year are going to paid or unpaid? I wonder if all those ladies would be so eager if they were told they’d have to take unpaid leave or use their annual leave… I very much doubt it.

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    Mute Ted Logan
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    May 18th 2018, 12:30 PM

    @Boyne Sharky: it would have to be paid or it would negatively impact on the gender pay gap.

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    Mute Boyne Sharky
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    May 18th 2018, 1:03 PM

    @Ted Logan: Ouch…

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    Mute D H
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    May 18th 2018, 1:14 PM

    @prop joe: What about menstrual stress leave for the men affected by the women who have severe menstrual pain?? We should all live in a fair and equal society after all…….

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    Mute Barry Somers
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    May 18th 2018, 1:37 PM

    @prop joe: so you don’t think anyone should get paid for being sick?
    What about maternity leave and paternity leave……no work no pay eh?

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    Mute Deirdre Murphy
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    May 18th 2018, 1:45 PM

    @Boyne Sharky: and i wonder if you’d like a kick up the a-s !

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    Mute #Inglés Retweeter
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    May 18th 2018, 7:51 PM

    @Boyne Sharky: 36 days? Why? 12 months X three days for each period?

    So you’re assuming that a woman’s period always lasts three days and that it’s always crippling painful.
    You really need to use your Internet connection for something more than making inane comments and get yourself informed. It’ll save you from future embarrassment.

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    Mute Coin Pumper
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    May 18th 2018, 8:19 PM

    @Ted Logan: Can’t imagine many women would support it for this very reason Ted. Can’t be getting paid for work that you’re not doing.

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    Mute prop joe
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    May 18th 2018, 9:55 PM

    @Barry Somers: so every 28 days all women can call in sick for a few days or a week? If the pain is that bad you can get a sick note for that already. This will get abused by the usual wasters we all know and work with.

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    Mute David Saunders
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    May 18th 2018, 10:42 PM

    @Barry Somers: so I take it having pmt is an illness

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    Mute Lily
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    May 18th 2018, 10:08 AM

    No. Unfortunately anyone who suffers with pain (chronic, monthly, acute) can’t take sick leave without risking their job. Regardless of the pain be it migraines, back, neck, arthritis, muscular, ibs, and so on. All you can do is take your pain meds, buscopan (anti spasmatics) and plod on.

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    Mute Joe Phillips
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    May 18th 2018, 10:21 AM

    @Lily: Bleak but spot on

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    Mute Lily
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    May 18th 2018, 10:30 AM

    @Joe Phillips: there is a girl at work, she reduced down from 5 days to 3 days because the bottom of her spine is crumbling and miss aligned. She was out sick for 3 months but couldn’t face being home all the time. She has a reaction to pain killers so can’t take them. Some days she can barely walk.

    She needs one days break between a days work.

    And they want mandatory paid sick leave for cramps every month!

    I’m disgusted. There are other people with all sorts of pain going on. More extensive than I’ve listed above. all you can do is plod on!

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    Mute Jed I. Knight
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    May 18th 2018, 10:36 AM

    @Lily: Genuine question. Do the Public Service not already have an entitlement to a certain amount of sick leave, a friend works in the HSE (I said works) and had a heart attack a couple of years ago. If I remember correctly they have 7 days uncertified sick leave days every 4 years and something like 90 days certified, obviously, having used up his sick leave he’s concerned about getting sick again.
    Given this, it would be something of a stretch to then grant up to 3 days, presumably paid leave, to women each month, potentially an additional 36 days annually. Would it not?

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    Mute Lily
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    May 18th 2018, 10:40 AM

    @Jed I. Knight: I believe there is a generous sick leave entitlement in the public service. Adding a further 36 days for women only would be ludicrous. And sexist!

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    Mute Sharon Carroll
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    May 18th 2018, 11:12 AM

    @Lily: you clearly don’t suffer from a debilitating menstrual cycle then,some women unfortunately do and are forced to carry on as if there is absolutely nothing wrong.

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    Mute Jed I. Knight
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    May 18th 2018, 11:42 AM

    @Sharon Carroll: With the greatest of respect, everyone, no matter their gender, has their cross to bear, it’s more than a little disingenuous for women to ask for up to 36 additional day sick leave – because they’re women. I’d have no issue with this if it’s unpaid, would you?

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    Mute Lily
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    May 18th 2018, 12:01 PM

    @Sharon Carroll:

    No I suffer with severe migraines sometimes up to 5 times a month. I vomit, I have to wear sunglasses in work and eyeball myself up with codeine on really bad days. I plod on. Just like my friend whose spine is crumbling, just like the man with sciatica. There are different pains. I couldn’t even walk for 8-24 hours when I ovulated the pain was that bad and when I got the coil it went (thankfully)

    I also suffer with double sided sciatica.

    No I don’t get period cramps. But There are other dehabilitating pains suffered by both sexes who don’t get a 3 day pass every month. Fair is fair and this proposal isn’t fair!

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    Mute Lily
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    May 18th 2018, 12:02 PM

    As Jed i nite says everyone has their cross to bare.

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    Mute Dorothy Giselsson
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    May 18th 2018, 12:27 PM

    @Lily: As I did for almost 20 years.

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    Mute Frank McGlynn
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    May 18th 2018, 12:28 PM

    @Lily: Agreed. I don’t see why it should be treated differently from any other type of pain.

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    Mute Lily
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    May 18th 2018, 12:42 PM

    @Frank McGlynn: that’s my point. Exactly my point. I get flare of gastritis that last 10-12 days that have put me in hospital. The only sick days I took was the days I was hospitalized.

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    Mute Sharon McClinton
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    May 18th 2018, 2:00 PM

    @Lily: Eh, Lilly… if that is your real name. You either have a pen!s or you have never suffered with a bad period. Well, I on the other hand don’t have a pen!s and I am crippled on a monthly basis because of my period and a condition called adenomyosis. Your opinions on how menstruating women should be treated, and comparing periods to other conditions and diseases, stink. So there! I wish you could experience what I, and lots of other women, experience on a monthly basis and see if that changes your opinion. P.s. I know you are entitled to your opinion I just strongly disagree with it

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    Mute Lisa
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    May 18th 2018, 3:15 PM

    It would be nice to live in a world that if any employee suffered from pain that debilitating they could speak to their employer and come up with a working plan. That isn’t an option in some jobs due to the type of employer or nature of work. So because we don’t live in an ideal world, we shouldn’t accommodate anyone? This is like when there’s a strike and it doesn’t get supported because people say “oh well *I* don’t get paid that much”, like that means no one should ask for raises or better conditions.

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    Mute Lily
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    May 18th 2018, 3:25 PM

    @Sharon McClinton: take it you’be never suffered with gastritis (where your stomach bleeds)? Or any of the other conditions I’ve listed or recurrent corneal erosion? Or occipital neuralgia?

    There are plenty of conditions that cause pain a bit of empathy for those conditions wouldn’t go amiss! Just because you suffer with severe period pain doesn’t make other pains less painful or debilitating!

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    Mute Lily
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    May 18th 2018, 3:26 PM

    @Lisa: accommodate them all or accomdate no one it’s discrimination to not give to others who are in severe pain.

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    Mute Lily
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    May 18th 2018, 3:59 PM

    @Sharon McClinton: it’s not fair of you to dismiss all other pain as trival and only your period and others period pain is severe pain that requires you/ye to take an extra 36 paid sick days. What about others in severe pain? do you not have empathy for them? Should they not get extra sick leave? Especially those with chronic, life long conditions? gout is supposed to be extremely painful, people can get regular flare ups.

    I think is discriminating everyone male or female who suffer with extream pain and get no extra paid sick leave. It’s sexist and disgusting and disgraceful not to acknowledge others have serious painful conditions that an extra 36 sick leave days would be beneficial for.

    Some of these have pain 24/7 not just 3 days a month.

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    Mute Sharon McClinton
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    May 18th 2018, 4:58 PM

    @Lily: Focus Janey! I’m not dismissing all other ailments, diseases, conditions etc… I’m saying you can not compare them. Stick to the subject. Seriously, keep up. It’s not that difficult. Or, do you have some sort of condition that we are not aware of?

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    Mute Dara O'Brien
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    May 18th 2018, 6:25 PM

    @Sharon McClinton: going down the route of ‘pain comparison’ or not isn’t going to accomplish anything. If you’re too sick to go to work, get a Doctors cert – like the other half of the population.

    I had the great fortune of getting 42 stitches to my face when two ‘gents’ tried to relieve me of my phone and wallet whilst on a work trip abroad.

    I have a degree of facial paralysis now along with persistent pain and an eye that weeps constantly. Your argument says ‘pfft, suck it up, my menstrual pains are worse’

    If I need time off, I have to go to a doctor – that’s just life and I don’t believe that further action is necessary.

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    Mute Sherodon
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    May 18th 2018, 10:16 AM

    If women get time off so should men get time off if there partners are on there periods, due to the emotional stress they have to endure from the monthly demon and also the lack of adult fun during those stressful days.

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    Mute Veronica
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    May 18th 2018, 10:26 AM

    @Sherodon: men men men men men

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    Mute Sherodon
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    May 18th 2018, 10:31 AM

    @Veronica: women women women women

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    Mute John Boy
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    May 18th 2018, 10:31 AM
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    Mute I like this cushion
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    May 18th 2018, 10:32 AM

    @Sherodon: Veronica seems to be permanently on her period.

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    Mute Veronica
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    May 18th 2018, 10:38 AM

    @I like this cushion: yeah, but Irish men totally respect women. Love articles like these, they really bring out the worst in Irish men for us all to see.

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    Mute James Brown
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    May 18th 2018, 10:39 AM

    @Veronica: You despise men Veronica. Something went wrong, but what ?

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    Mute I like this cushion
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    May 18th 2018, 10:42 AM

    @Veronica: I respect women but I don’t respect you because you’re a bigot and a moron. Most women aren’t like you, thank god. Our species would go extinct.

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    Mute Veronica
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    May 18th 2018, 10:44 AM

    @James Brown: I don’t despise men, you guys seem to be under the impression that loving women is the same as hating men. The two are worlds apart.

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    Mute I like this cushion
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    May 18th 2018, 10:47 AM

    @Veronica: I call bullshit on that. Your twitter is very revealing. You’re obsessed. Totally consumed by your ideology. You need therapy.

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    Mute Veronica
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    May 18th 2018, 10:50 AM

    @I like this cushion: what are you on about?

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    Mute I like this cushion
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    May 18th 2018, 10:59 AM

    @Veronica: You hate men, just admit it. If not to us, at least to yourself. You see men as the opposing team, the enemy. Everyone can see it. It’s not a healthy outlook to have on life. Get help.

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    Mute Veronica
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    May 18th 2018, 11:02 AM

    @I like this cushion: why do you tie men and male violence together like all men are violent? Hating male violence is not the same thing as hating men, and it’s worrying that you can’t see the difference.

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    Mute I like this cushion
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    May 18th 2018, 11:04 AM

    @Veronica: Why are you so cute when you’re angry?

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    Mute Veronica
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    May 18th 2018, 11:07 AM

    @I like this cushion: Accor

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    Mute Veronica
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    May 18th 2018, 11:07 AM

    @I like this cushion: according to your mate above I’m not cute any of the time.

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    Mute I like this cushion
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    May 18th 2018, 11:10 AM

    @Veronica: Don’t mind him, I’m sure you’re lovely really, just a bit of a headcase that’s all. Nobody is perfect though x

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    Mute Kevin Tyrrell
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    May 18th 2018, 11:16 AM

    @Veronica: Could you tell us what you want and how it would fit into a framework of equality and equity? Do you want this as an instance of special treatment for all women, or just the women who have a provable and medically diagnosed condition? If so it would be like a disability that would have to be disclosed to a potential employer and would have to be a special provision in the persons contract. If the individual needs something specific in their contractual agreement with the employer then it must disclosed surely beforehand and agreed beforehand. If not and you want all women to have this as a right if they so desire to avail of it then you are seeking an advantageous working arrangement for just one gender, and surely it must be traded off against something? If its a special right for just women, and solely for them to use as necessary then what about the trans women and trans men? Does a trans man who still has a womb, ovaries etc and period qualify? Does a trans woman who does not have a womb, ovaries etc or period qualify? And be very very careful there because that is a can of worms you do not want to be opening lest you bring down the ire of intersectionality on your head!!! If I am gender fluid man and identify as a woman 2 days a month can I claim this advantage??? And yes this in all nonsense, but these are exactly the sort of arguments that the intersectional brigade will scream about in the advancement of LGBTQ rights if something like this is brought in. After all…trans women are real women…arent they???

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    Mute Veronica
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    May 18th 2018, 11:19 AM

    @Kevin Tyrrell: “trans women are real women” lol, we all know that tw are male, and males will never suffer from period pain.

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    Mute Veronica
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    May 18th 2018, 11:20 AM

    @Kevin Tyrrell: if you suffer from dysmenorrhea and need a day off a few times a year to cope with the pain and vomiting at home, I don’t see what the problem is. Having flexible working options would be of huge benefit to everybody. Besides, how much quality work is getting done by people who are forced to sit at their desk even though they’re in immense pain?

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    Mute JayDoge
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    May 18th 2018, 11:34 AM

    @Veronica: can anyone spell: cognitive dissonance?

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    Mute Kevin Tyrrell
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    May 18th 2018, 11:38 AM

    @JayDoge: let me have a go… V…E…R…O…N…I…C…A!!! Did i get it right???

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    Mute Boyne Sharky
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    May 18th 2018, 11:56 AM

    @Veronica: All this is a distraction and best left for another day, may I ask, would you favour paid or unpaid leave? I noticed you said “need a day off a few times a year”, let’s be honest, while that may be you, there a far more ladies out there who would abuse this, if it were available.
    If there were up to 3 additional days paid leave per month, would they take advantage of all of them? In a heartbeat.

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    Mute Kevin Tyrrell
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    May 18th 2018, 12:01 PM

    @Veronica: You want flexible work arrangements?? Well then as I said…go and disclose the fact that you have a medical condition that precludes you from working 2 days every month and have it written into the contract that you get these days off as a discretionary measure. Simple!!! If you want a special working condition that nobody else is entitled to then you must prove you need it and let the employer decide. I get severe migraines. They can last 2 or 3 days sometimes. I struggle into work, do my best and yes I have even puked sometimes with the pain…but my boss is pretty sensible with me on these days. He gets the odd migraine himself. He wont work me to death or pester me for things…he just leaves me be to get on with things as best I can and appreciates that I do come in. I dont ask for any special measures and I dont expect any. I may not be 100% but I would rather be productive in some way…than sitting on my ass being paid for the privilege. My boss is not a charity, and Im not a charity case. In all things there should be a bit of give and take…but you want a situation where the woman gets to take and the employer has to be okay with that. You cant have it both ways…unless you want special circumstances. But if you want special circumstances then you must realize there is a consequence of that in that you will have to trade off some things in the long run. The bottom line is…no matter who the employer is…they want people who are conscientious enough that they want to work and produce for them…they wont promote or consider as useful people who take advantage of situations to their benefit. You would probably find that most employers would be sympathetic of anyones situation if they genuinely showed up and try to struggle through a difficulty. And anyway…you are going to be in pain at home the same as in work. Unless the period pains make it physically impossible for you to carry out your duty you should at least try to attend…and maybe give the employer the chance to put you at a post or in a position that did not require any physical effort…and maybe put you in a spot where you could still work but be sitting down. You are still going to be in pain no matter what. Thats how I look at it when my head is exploding…no matter where I am, the pain is there too. Might as well be working and earning and gaining the respect of my employer too. You want the employer to treat you as a person who matter, and not just a number or a bum on a seat…well then threat them and their company like they matter too and show them that you want to be there. Its a 2 way street.

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    Mute Janet Cadwell
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    May 18th 2018, 1:17 PM

    @Sherodon: men get man flu days

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    Mute Kal Ipers
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    May 18th 2018, 1:36 PM

    @Janet Cadwell: You do get that is extremely sexist?

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    Mute Boyne Sharky
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    May 18th 2018, 1:56 PM

    @Kal Ipers: I doubt it, as was said above, everyone has their cross to bear and everyone who is in pain of any description must take their allotted sick leave. It’s sexist and very insincere for women to demand up to an additional 36 day each year, and then we get the hypocritical “man flu” remarks.

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    Mute Sherodon
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    May 18th 2018, 3:37 PM

    @Janet Cadwell: more sexist remarks from another femanazi it doesn’t surprise me you lot are man haters. The man flu is a scientific fact you’s women wouldn’t have a clue how it feels it’s been scientifically proven by oxford university in there 2015 study that man flu is the most painful and debilitating illness know to mankind and you want to make a joke of it how rude. You will never understand the pain us men go through. I’d rather give birth while having period cramps then get the man flu

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    Mute Boyne Sharky
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    May 18th 2018, 6:10 PM

    @Sherodon: It is? I was under the impression that women, during the pain of childbirth, could almost experience the pain a man with a cold goes through…

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    Mute Noel Patrick
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    May 18th 2018, 10:13 AM

    Between maternity leave and this it would discourage employers from hiring women. If they are going to be off a few days every month.

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    Mute gregory
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    May 18th 2018, 10:46 AM

    @Noel Patrick: It’s only for the public sector so this will not be an issue in the private sector

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    Mute Boyne Sharky
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    May 18th 2018, 12:49 PM

    @Noel Patrick: Oh it gets better. Assuming these ladies are so ill they can’t work, and who would doubt them, they obviously can’t look after themselves or children, make meals etc. so it would be reasonable to say their partners would also need time off work too. Would it not?

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    Mute Jorge Thompson
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    May 18th 2018, 10:08 AM

    Ah sure why not give them a job and let them stay at home permanently? If I don’t work, I don’t get paid – that’s life.

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    Mute Sharon Carroll
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    May 18th 2018, 11:14 AM

    @Jorge Thompson: I doubt you’re doubled over in pain every month though are you?

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    Mute I like this cushion
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    May 18th 2018, 12:03 PM

    @Sharon Carroll: Probably not but neither is every women so perhaps it should be done on a case by case basis, rather than a blanket rule for all women? Just saying.

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    Mute James O'Donovan
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    May 18th 2018, 10:11 AM

    Hello Michael? This is Mary . I wont be in today .
    Are you ok Mary? I hope its nothing serious .
    Its ok Michael its just bad period pains.
    …….. ………
    Michael ? Michael ? Are you still there ? Hello ?

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    Mute Sharon Reid
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    May 18th 2018, 11:59 AM

    @James O’Donovan: all well and good to laugh but one of my sister’s use to vomit and have migraines for days from her periods. For some women its an issue.

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    Mute Veronica
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    May 18th 2018, 10:07 AM

    Severe menstrual pain is crippling. Like proper crippling. So yes, I am in favour of being allowed time off for severe period pain.

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    Mute Joe Bloggs
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    May 18th 2018, 10:08 AM

    @Veronica: it’ll be abused.

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    Mute Veronica
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    May 18th 2018, 10:13 AM

    @Joe Bloggs: how do you know that Joe? I imagine that for more than 1 day or a half day would require a doctors certificate saying you suffer from dysmenorrhea.

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    Mute Joe Phillips
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    May 18th 2018, 10:20 AM

    @Joe Bloggs: I don’t really care if some abuse it. Some also really need it sometimes

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    Mute Kal Ipers
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    May 18th 2018, 10:22 AM

    @Veronica: I can completely accept that but then there is the harsh reality of employment. Lots of jobs require great flexibility and availability. A person who may be out an extra 24 days a year simply wouldn’t be suitable for certain jobs. Would it then be discrimination not to hire them for such positions or moving them off a job? if you have a condition maybe you will have to accept the limitations and not expect the job. It will also affect the very inaccurate gender pay gap figures as they would be working less hours.

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    Mute Veronica
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    May 18th 2018, 10:25 AM

    @Kal Ipers: what you’re suggesting sounds extremely draconian and flies in the face of almost all labour laws. By your argument we should never hire people over a certain age, anyone with a disability, anyone with children, anyone with parents who need to be cared for, anyone who is social and spends time in work chatting with colleagues, etc etc ad nauseum.

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    Mute Sherodon
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    May 18th 2018, 10:28 AM

    @Veronica: y

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    Mute Smiley
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    May 18th 2018, 10:29 AM

    @Veronica: Just take it as sick leave. Speaking as one who needed Ponstan always, and pethedine sometimes.

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    Mute Sherodon
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    May 18th 2018, 10:29 AM

    @Veronica: you obviously never ran a business. When hiring you want people who can do the job and make money. Not a bunch of moaning snowflakes that want special treatment

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    Mute Gulliver Foyle
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    May 18th 2018, 10:32 AM

    @Veronica: out of interest, as there is a finite account of sick leave available to all employees, should women be required to go to the company doctor and take the recommended fix for severe menstrual pain, like alternating their contraceptive chemical mix, or going on the pill if they are not currently on it?

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    Mute Veronica
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    May 18th 2018, 10:34 AM

    @Smiley: sure, I don’t mind that either, but I’m just saying I’m not against the idea of menstrual leave. Periods are something that affect almost all women, and dysmenorrhea (as you know) can be a killer. More flexible work options are not a bad thing. We don’t need to go down the route of punishing people for things beyond their control.

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    Mute Veronica
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    May 18th 2018, 10:34 AM

    @Gulliver Foyle: should women be forcibly medicated? Are you joking?

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    Mute Kevin Tyrrell
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    May 18th 2018, 10:37 AM

    @Veronica: to be fair Veronica i would say if you took a poll of women and said they could get 2 extra days off every month with pay and all they had to say was they had bad period cramps to get it…a very high proportion would say…damn right i would bluff the boss and take them off. Its human nature…its silly to say otherwise. If given an easy option to have time off with pay that cant be questioned…most people would take it. That goes for men too. It wouldnt be fair on those that actually do suffer badly and actually did need it…but because people are people and would abuse it wholesale it would never be a viable option for a business to provide it to female staff.

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    Mute Kal Ipers
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    May 18th 2018, 10:43 AM

    @Veronica: I didn’t suggest anything I asked you to explain how it would work. If you can’t do a job due to health reasons they can and will change your job and it is perfectly legal. They are also able to consider your sick leave when looking at who to promote

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    Mute Tracey Marshall
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    May 18th 2018, 12:54 PM

    @Joe Bloggs: im sure you are the same sexist man saying women will abuse abortion…yeah because we choose periods for the craic

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    Mute Boyne Sharky
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    May 18th 2018, 11:38 PM

    @Veronica: Are you joking? Dysmenorrhea(menstrual cramps), a killer? The underlying cause, fibroids, endometriosis, or ovarian cysts etc. may cause complications but not dysmenorrhea itself.

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    Mute Delboy79
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    May 19th 2018, 12:50 AM

    @Veronica: of course it will be abused. Do you see the world through such rose tinted glasses that you believe everyone is genuine and honest. Reality check. Most people are self serving and will say and do whatever to maximise any benefit to themselves. E g. I’m tired this morning, I don’t feel like working today. I’d love to stay in bed. Oh hang on, I can claim a day off by saying I have period pain. Nice one..

    You saying this scenario won’t happen.?

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    Mute Kal Ipers
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    May 18th 2018, 10:08 AM

    how would this affect the new pay gender gap information being brought in. Effectively some women will be working less with 24 extra days of non work. Should they be paid the same?

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    Mute #Inglés Retweeter
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    May 18th 2018, 7:49 PM

    @Kal Ipers: 24? Why? Because it’s 12 months x two days each month?

    So you’re assuming that a woman’s period lasts two days and that it’s always crippling painful.
    You really need to use your Internet connection for something more than making inane comments and get yourself informed. It’ll save you from future embarrassment.

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    Mute Brian Deane
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    May 18th 2018, 10:22 AM

    Should the journal decide to become a credible media outlet? Just asking.

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    Mute I like this cushion
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    May 18th 2018, 10:35 AM

    @Brian Deane: lol

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    Mute Mark Mc Steve
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    May 18th 2018, 11:30 AM

    @Brian Deane: Fat chance ha

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    Mute Jamie Jj Tobin
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    May 18th 2018, 10:13 AM

    At this stage of civil servant entitlements. If you get a handy government job for your self, between holidays, sick leave, few days off when some one kicks the bucket, maternity leave, menstrual leave, get married and take a career break, you can pretty much spend your entire career at home and get paid!

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    Mute Keelan O'neill
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    May 18th 2018, 10:27 AM

    @Jamie Jj Tobin: what has your rant against the civil service have to do with period pain?

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    Mute Orla For-kan
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    May 18th 2018, 10:31 AM

    @Jamie Jj Tobin: that is bo**ox
    You actually get far less sick leave in public service than in private sector.
    Sick leave is halved. People dying of cancer etc if they go over their leave get nothing. Maximum uncertified sick leave is 3 days per year. Self certified leave ie uncertified you still must fill form and give explanation for leave and have a return to work interview.
    Since Croke park agreement genuinely sick and Disabled people are treated like crap in the public sector.

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    Mute Jamie Jj Tobin
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    May 18th 2018, 10:32 AM

    @Keelan O’neill: You should have read the article properly!

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    Mute Jamie Jj Tobin
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    May 18th 2018, 10:48 AM

    @Orla For-kan: Most people in Ireland get no sick pay at all…. Don’t be so ungrateful and be happy with the 3 days you get.

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    Mute James Brown
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    May 18th 2018, 11:02 AM

    @Jamie Jj Tobin: someone kicks the bucket? One day if very close.
    Annual leave- same as private.
    Sick leave – less than private.

    You seem to be misinformed.

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    Mute Seeking Truth
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    May 18th 2018, 10:19 AM

    My daughter suffers with this. She could go on the Pill but there are other risks with that for her personally…she can load up on medicine — which she does — to cope with the first 2-3 days. But she does suffer and I wonder how she will be when she is in Leaving Cert or when she goes off to University or when she gets a job. It’s hard to watch her suffer. But I also know she’s in the minority of women who suffer this badly.
    I also know people who suffer migraine, arthritis, etc and work, try to work, have to get off work, etc. So, I think if it is a legitimate chronic medical condition then companies should work with employees within the confines of HR, doctors notes and explanations of chronic medical issues. But not “period leave” every month. I can’t imagine that really going down well on either side of the fence.

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    Mute Mark Scott
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    May 18th 2018, 10:15 AM

    Will it be factored into the ‘gender pay gap’?

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    Mute I like this cushion
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    May 18th 2018, 11:03 AM

    @Mark Scott: There’s only one factor in the pay gap: Sexism. End of analysis.

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    Mute John Judd
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    May 18th 2018, 10:15 AM

    I’ve never heard of anything so ridiculous , if it’s that bad go to a GP get a note for work.

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    Mute
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    May 18th 2018, 10:22 AM

    Most women take advantage of male bosses by taking time off and referring to “women’s problems”. Anybody who says it doesn’t happen is delusional or have a slight case of short term amnesia.

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    Mute SC
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    May 18th 2018, 5:13 PM

    @: women do have women’s problems. I can’t remember the last time I went to the doctor for something that wasn’t a urinary tract infection, iron deficiency, contraception or other female problem. But I have women’s problems two or three days a year.

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    Mute Niallers
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    May 18th 2018, 10:05 AM

    There should be sick leave if not feeling well enough to work.

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    Mute Slim Shady
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    May 18th 2018, 10:19 AM

    @Niallers: Which would be abused.

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    Mute Sarah Broderick
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    May 18th 2018, 11:45 AM

    If a woman is lucky, she will never be need more than a couple of paracetamol to solve the pain the headaches, back pain and stomach pain; and her moods will deviate slightly and briefly, and life will continue normally. For those of us with endometriosis and polycystic ovaries life comes to a standstill every month. I passed out with the pain.I had many surgeries to remove cysts. Thankfully I had my womb removed, and now at the age of 41 I can finally start to live my live. Unfortunately, because it took the medical field so long to take my womb, I now have an under active thyroid, Fibromyalgia and suffer from mygraine. Men have no idea what it is to walk in a women’s body and I am greatly insulted by many of the comments here. If this leave was available my career would still be intact.

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    Mute Lily
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    May 18th 2018, 12:21 PM

    @Sarah Broderick: same goes for anyone with a chronic condition/ illness! Not just period problems.

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    Mute Laura Farrell
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    May 18th 2018, 2:13 PM

    @Sarah Broderick: likewise – hysterectomy 3 months ago for a 5kg, 28cm fibroid that made my life very unpleasant. I didn’t take a single sick day for it until the operation. And that now, is the end of it. If women got proper care for uterine conditions there would be no need for this.

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    Mute Joe Bloggs
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    May 18th 2018, 10:07 AM

    Sick leave ?

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    Mute Dotty Dunleary
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    May 18th 2018, 10:15 AM

    I think male commentators on this should back off on this subject!

    I don’t think any woman is going to casually use what’s a private bodily pain issue just to flake out on work!

    I’d say more men call in sick from work the next day due to too many pints of beer!!

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    Mute Sherodon
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    May 18th 2018, 10:22 AM

    @Dotty Dunleary: statistically women take on average 3 times more sick days then men. I’m sure there is a lot of women who would use this as an excuse for extra sick days.
    Your comment about men drinking is sexist and offensive not all men drink beer and call in sick.
    Also women are four times more likely to call in sick with a hangover

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    Mute Lily
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    May 18th 2018, 10:24 AM

    @Dotty Dunleary:

    I would use that excuse, every month for a paid day off or two, it’s there so might as well take it. Who can say I’m not in pain? No proof or evidence.

    I don’t even get periods not for a decade, I had bad ovulation pain where I couldn’t even work, the coil cured that and now I get nothing!!!

    But sure work don’t need to know that. I could just tell porkies.

    *i do get severe migraines, the only time I called in sick to work was when I was in hospital. I even went to work when I needed a scan to see if I had an aortic aneurysm. The scan was booked in for 7pm I went to work at 3pm and took an hour off for the scan.

    If it’s there it will be abused. If something is offered on a silver platter it will be used.

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    Mute Kal Ipers
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    May 18th 2018, 10:25 AM

    @Dotty Dunleary: You can be absolutely positive people will abuse any way to get extra days off. If you manage people who don’t really care about their jobs would do it. Having worked with civil servants I can assure you they abuse current systems

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    Mute Dotty Dunleary
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    May 18th 2018, 10:35 AM

    @Kal Ipers: Of course, civil servants statistically have the highest level of sick days in the country.
    As for it not being used as a casual excuse, well any woman who is career driven won’t abuse it as more sick days will move that person down the list for promotions etc.

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    Mute Shannon Cassidy
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    May 18th 2018, 10:46 AM

    @Sherodon: they are probably taking flogged sick days for bad months anyway lol

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    Mute Kal Ipers
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    May 18th 2018, 11:02 AM

    @Dotty Dunleary: You obviously don’t know how promotions work in the civil service. Many people will never be promoted and don’t even apply as they won’t get passed the exams. These people will certainly abuse any additional days off they cab get. I have had people tell me they are taking a sick day weeks in advance

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    Mute Dotty Dunleary
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    May 18th 2018, 11:07 AM

    @Kal Ipers: Probably more down to “who you know” and if your family member is/was in a senior position in the CS.

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    Mute Kal Ipers
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    May 18th 2018, 11:29 AM

    @Dotty Dunleary: You know absolutely nothing about civil servant promotions. It certainly is not possible to get a promotion down to who you know. You really shouldn’t comment on things you don’t know anything about. The terrible part is people will believe you and the ignorance spreads.

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    Mute P.J. Nolan
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    May 18th 2018, 12:02 PM

    @Kal Ipers:
    Sorry Kal, cannot agree. Most of us will have seen different
    About 10 years ago I was a supervisor on a manual labour job and a young lad joined us, all his siblings had gone to college and done well so after a while we asked him why didn’t he do the same or a trade. “No, I’m waiting for my father to retire from the council road crew”. A couple of years later and his father retired…..
    I’m sure the further up the CSO you go the closer the regulation gets bug at the bottom?

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    Mute Kal Ipers
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    May 18th 2018, 12:33 PM

    @P.J. Nolan: Something happened a decade ago and you think that is how it works now? Get this things change and it is not possible now. There are very few labouring jobs in the civil service with most replaced with private companies. I am some what dubious of what you are saying but it still doesn’t relate to promotions.

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    Mute Dotty Dunleary
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    May 18th 2018, 2:20 PM

    @Kal Ipers: I’ve worked with public servants in the past and how they got into managerial positions when I wouldn’t even let any of them be in charge of a sweeping brush unsupervised would lead me only to one answer…

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    Mute mike scott
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    May 18th 2018, 10:28 AM

    Essentially this is free time off for pain related reasons? Sure, go ahead. But do we extend it to everyone if they have a bad headache too. What if I step on Lego? Also, being the office snowflake isn’t going to be great for career prospects – and will be a privilege abused by low calibre unmotivated workers. You know the type.

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    Mute #Inglés Retweeter
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    May 18th 2018, 7:53 PM

    @mike scott: Do you get a bad headache every month around the same time? Does it prevent you from working? Is it your fault or because you’re a dude?

    Do you read your comments before you post them?

    Go play with your lego.

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    Mute Dave Doyle
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    May 18th 2018, 10:28 AM

    Though to many it sounds a rididulous suggestion, there is some merit in it. Its not the same for every woman, some breeze through the “period”, others suffer and suffer badly.
    I work in a place that’s 90% women employees. I have seen some women doubled over in pain from the cramps, yet still try and continue with their work.
    Would it be open to abuse if brought in? Of course it would. But it would be of huge help to those women who get it bad.

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    Mute I like this cushion
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    May 18th 2018, 12:06 PM

    @Dave Doyle: 90% women? That is an outrage. I hope you’ve been lobbying your employer to employ more men to restore the balance #equality

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    Mute The Viking
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    May 18th 2018, 10:22 AM

    Can the men and children get put up in hotel rooms whilst this menstrual leave is in place. If so I’m all for.

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    Mute bigbrownduck
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    May 18th 2018, 10:36 AM

    As someone with a clotting disorder who bleeds extremely heavily all the way through a period I can relate to people in extreme pain – but if I was to take time off every time I have a heavy bleed I’d hardly be in my job

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    Mute Shannon Cassidy
    Favourite Shannon Cassidy
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    May 18th 2018, 10:42 AM

    Its a grey area, some women could take advantage of it but then theres those with conditions like endometriosis who can be in crippling pain and vomitting from the pain.

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    Mute Lily
    Favourite Lily
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    May 18th 2018, 12:05 PM

    @Shannon Cassidy:

    Sound like me with migraines, however you can add dislike of light and sound on top of crippling pain and vomiting.

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    Mute Kevin Tyrrell
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    May 18th 2018, 10:27 AM

    We have all pulled a sickie at one time or another, but with the extra added situation of the boss probably not wanting to discuss female intimate cycles it would definitely be abused. I know female friends that have used the time of the month excuse to have a day off and probably every woman posting here has used the excuse too because it wont be questioned and its an easy out. So it would probably be a case that you use your standard quota of discretionary sick days and after that its a day off without pay. It would also increase the so called gender pay gap too!!! You cant have it every way. I suffer from migraines, so i take a painkiller and suffer through it unless i cant even get out of bed in which case i use a sick day…but i only get so many so i only use them when i am sick.

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    Mute Stuart Wootten
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    May 18th 2018, 3:16 PM

    The girls in my office believe that after a period of working closely together their cycles align. If this is the case the company may have to go on a 3 week month.

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    Mute marg fitzgerald
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    May 18th 2018, 11:25 AM

    Another excuse for not employing or promoting women

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    Mute Alan Scott
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    May 18th 2018, 10:36 AM

    As every company offers sick leave to its staff Why would this be a obtion Right away it would be abused. I am just waiting for the line Do you not trust women?

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    Mute New Property
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    May 18th 2018, 10:57 AM

    No need it would fall under sick leave, just take a sick day or two.

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    Mute Chris Quinn
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    May 18th 2018, 2:41 PM

    If the pain is severe, it can often indicate serious problems like adenomyosis. Giving leave to deal with the pain would encourage getting medical attention that could prevent more serious issues later on.

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    Mute Ooby Dooby
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    May 18th 2018, 10:57 AM

    Pain in pain. Should be considered no less debilitating than pain from saaaayy…. a tooth ache?

    I don’t see the issue here

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    Mute #Inglés Retweeter
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    May 18th 2018, 7:43 PM

    Absolutely, if it can be verified by a doctor. Some women suffer paralysing pain when they have their period. My ex, for example, used to miss the occasional day of work due to this type of pain quite simply because she couldn’t stand up straight. Totally justified and should of course be remunerated.

    But again, only with the doc’s OK.

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    Mute hugh beckett
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    May 18th 2018, 10:09 AM

    If it’s public service, maybe extend the number of days that women can take for uncertified leave?

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    Mute Graeme Murphy
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    May 18th 2018, 12:54 PM

    Will Caitlyn Jenner be entitled to this leave too?

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    Mute David Saunders
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    May 18th 2018, 11:24 AM

    Just like sick days it would be used as holidays but every single month

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    Mute thejamer
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    May 18th 2018, 1:15 PM

    This is ridiculous, if you are so sick that you can’t attend work then go to the Doctor and get a cert. We all have varying degrees of ailments at different stages. If a person is injured in an accident and has on going pain issues they have to deal with it and attend a Doctor if they need a cert.

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    Mute Johnr
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    May 18th 2018, 10:39 AM

    Have a new gear box issue, needs to be run-in, usually good when there is a bit of ware and few hundred kilometers put on the clock.

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    Mute Paul Costello
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    May 18th 2018, 10:59 AM

    This article will have a lot of people seeing red.

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    Mute SC
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    May 18th 2018, 5:09 PM

    I sometimes cry from the pain in work. Very embarrassing. The thing is it’s only severe for about ten minutes at a time, then it goes away for an hour or so. So if I took a day off I’d be wasting time. What I’d like is to be able to talk about it a bit and just explain that it’s normal and natural. I don’t want to take the pill for my whole life to make my periods tolerable.

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    Mute The G-Man
    Favourite The G-Man
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    May 18th 2018, 8:51 PM

    call me nuts but i think anyone should be allowed to leave work if experiencing severe pain.

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    Mute Tracey Marshall
    Favourite Tracey Marshall
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    May 18th 2018, 12:56 PM

    Why are women even getting periods? Certain pills stop then all together (well all pills stop them…women just dont need to take the break between). It is therefore a womans choice to have a period because they are not necessary to have if you take the pill.

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    Mute I like this cushion
    Favourite I like this cushion
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    May 18th 2018, 1:19 PM

    @Tracey Marshall: Sounds healthy

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    Mute Lily
    Favourite Lily
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    May 18th 2018, 3:30 PM

    @I like this cushion: I haven’t had one in 10 years. It’s fantastic. The only side affect is a 10×5 cyst on my ovary. But I’m happy enough with that!

    I have the merina coil.

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    Mute Siobhán Ni Mhurchú
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    May 18th 2018, 6:51 PM

    @Tracey Marshall: you do know that there’s risks to being on the pill and not every woman can take the pill ? So it’s not every woman’s choice at all…

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    Mute Jane Nic Conchradha
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    May 18th 2018, 9:07 PM

    Are they having a laugh, why not give time off for a bad hair day while their at it

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    Mute Dave Moran
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    May 18th 2018, 6:58 PM

    Of course..

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    Mute FartyTowels
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    May 18th 2018, 1:59 PM

    Poll : Should the Journal stop doing stupid polls just to create hysteria?

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    Mute Kimbo
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    May 19th 2018, 10:46 AM

    Can’t we just use normal sick leave for these purposes? I would assume that if this passes we’ll have to have a similar scheme for Crohn’s patients and anyone with a chorionic condition. I really don’t think this can help with the gender divide…

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    Mute Michael Griffin
    Favourite Michael Griffin
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    May 18th 2018, 4:35 PM

    I wonder is there something men could get a few extra days off for

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    Mute Laura Farrell
    Favourite Laura Farrell
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    May 18th 2018, 2:10 PM

    They should get proper treatment for whatever condition they have that is causing menstrual pain. This is not a “normal” condition, its product of a society that does not take women’s health seriously.

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    Mute Delboy79
    Favourite Delboy79
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    May 19th 2018, 12:39 AM

    How coukd an employer possibly verify the sincerety of a leave claim based on period pain. It would be carnage. Male/female ratio in the work place would swing dramatically in favour of males.

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    Mute Maria Hickey-Fagan
    Favourite Maria Hickey-Fagan
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    May 18th 2018, 6:33 PM

    As a public servant and a member of Forsa can I just say how utterly ridiculous this is? Members were not even consulted to see if there’s an appetite for this stupid idea.

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    Mute Shannon Mcg
    Favourite Shannon Mcg
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    May 18th 2018, 12:59 PM

    No. This is coming from someone who has anaemia and suffers severe period pains. Take iron tablets, strong pain killers, and have warm baths, drink nettle tea or mugwort tea, use heatpads. Sorted.

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    Mute Laura Farrell
    Favourite Laura Farrell
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    May 18th 2018, 2:15 PM

    @Shannon Mcg: this does sound like you have a quite serious problem there. Would suggest you arrange blood tests and an ultrascan to see whats causing this. Severe anemia is very hard on the heart.

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    Mute Ciaran Keogh
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    May 18th 2018, 12:37 PM

    There should be some form of paid leave, but the worry would be that companies may choose a male over female for a new job, based on the potential loss by the paid leave for women. Very difficult situation.

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    Mute Daniel Carson
    Favourite Daniel Carson
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    May 18th 2018, 8:02 PM

    Hypocritical feminists.

    I believe women have the strength to persevere through such pain. They believe women should be babied and treated like children.

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    Mute Maria Coleman
    Favourite Maria Coleman
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    May 18th 2018, 3:31 PM

    Thats a silly question. If you r too ill to work you r too ill to work period. If youll excuse the pun.

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    Mute Elaine Doherty
    Favourite Elaine Doherty
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    May 18th 2018, 5:03 PM

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha your kidding right! ! What about a day of for every time I’ve got a headache and a runny nose

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    Mute Daniel Carson
    Favourite Daniel Carson
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    May 18th 2018, 8:00 PM

    Absolutely f*****g not.

    Businesses (who’s goal is to maximize profit) cannot afford to allow their workers time off every month.

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    Mute Pl O'neill
    Favourite Pl O'neill
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    May 19th 2018, 9:42 AM

    Nobody told us that women would require all these opt-outs when they told us they were equal .

    Now they have equality , the list of opt-outs begins and does not appear to have an end either .

    Equality for men Please . There is no way we should have to put up with these troublesome women without opt-outs for men .

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    Mute Datuk Don
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    May 18th 2018, 12:14 PM

    Absolutely they should. Women are precious and should be protected. Although it might not fall foul of the equality legislation

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    Mute Andy Lawrence Moore
    Favourite Andy Lawrence Moore
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    May 18th 2018, 11:21 PM

    Now that is a brilliant question !! Sorts the Men from the I dunno ?? The Men & whomever else !

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    Mute Pl O'neill
    Favourite Pl O'neill
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    May 19th 2018, 9:39 AM

    No of course not . Men should get time off because women can be hard work during this time . Why should men have to put up with women in a Foul Mood due to a completely natural process . If women can’t cut it in the work place they should withdraw with as much grace as they can muster .

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