Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
IF YOUR NAME is John Paul, and you were named after the last Pope, RTÉ wants to hear from you.
RTÉ One are planning to put together a documentary about people who were named after John Paul II visited Ireland in 1979.
One in 10 baby boys born in 1980 were named John Paul after the historic visit, which saw a quarter of the Irish population congregate at the Phoenix Park for his opening Mass.
On Saturday 25 August this year, Pope Francis is to celebrate Mass in Phoenix PArk as part of the World Meeting of Families, a festival held every three years which explores the theme of family within the Catholic faith.
RTE are looking for a few ‘John Pauls’, who would now be aged around 38, to ask them for their opinion on Irish society now, Irish values and how the country is developing.
“The John Pauls were 10 years old for Italia ’90, 28 when the economy collapsed, 35 when the marriage equality referendum was passed,” producers said.
They’ve been ’80s kids, Celtic Cubs, Generation X and now the ‘squeezed middle’: their life stories mark four decades of change and insights into the country’s future.
If you’re a JP or you know a JP, contact the producers Maya Derrington at maya@animotv.ie.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
How does the captain of a ship involved in presumably criminal people trafficking get on to a non-governmental organisation expecting them to help?
Would he not contact the coast guard?
I’m assuming an illegal smuggler would try to avoid alerting the authorities to his illegal activities for as long as possible. It would be like a meth cook calling the police because his lab was broken into by thieves.
Immigrants are people too.
People who put more strain on the already brittle European economy as well as adding to our current social problems. How much are the extra patrols and the constant rescue efforts alone costing the EU?
There is no captain. They give free passage to four or five to run the boat. BBC interviewed a young lad who was given a few weeks work on a boat as training. He was then made captain on one of these refugee boats in return for free passage. The smugglers can never be caught. Ghadaffi would have caught them though! Meddling in other’s affairs will always come back to haunt you.
This is what happens when terrorists such as cam-moron and sarkozy get to slaughter civilians in sovereign states such as libya leaving it in ruins and forcing people to do everything they can to escape the mayhem for a better life
@Jason Cullgian: OK, so what exactly would your solution be? To hell with them all and let them die? Because they put a ”strain” on the economy (even though they actually haven’t even been given the chance to do that yet, seeing as they’re all still on a boat and or dead in the water!) Think of the Irish migrants who went to America way back when. Would you have the same disgusting attitude to those people as well? I bet none of them had to pay some sleazy trafficker up to 10,000 euros. All everyone thinks about is money, money, money, taxpayers this, straining the economy that. These are PEOPLE we are talking about. Saving them at any cost surely trumps worrying about the financial situation of Europe!! If it bothers you so much, why not save them and then deport them if that’s the case? Honestly, some people really make my blood boil!
“If it bothers you so much, why not save them and then deport them if that’s the case?”
If you actually bothered to read my comments, you’d know that this is exactly what I’m advocating. Some people are seriously too busy seeking to be offended that they don’t even read what they’re getting offended over.
I also addressed your point about the Irish below. Irish emigrants were not welcomed with open arms in America. They were assessed both physically and mentally and were deported without question should they prove to be too much of a risk or a burden. They would be put back on the Coffin Ships for a return journey if they would not benefit America.
Which you would also advocate in this case, I guess? Funny how double standards work. I think what they did back then are as disgusting as what you would have us do now.
I admit I didn’t read all of your comments, but I did read the one where you questioned: “How much are the extra patrols and the constant rescue efforts alone costing the EU?”, which is the one I was explicitly replying to. Where again, I would beg the question, given your superior knowledge on EU policy and your flawless ability of telling the future, what would your solution be if not to spend money on rescuing these people?
Rather than spending the money on reactive rescuing, the EU should spend the money in proactively trying to stop these boats before they can venture far from Libya and turn them back.
The cost of patrolling the seas to rescue these immigrants is seriously amplified by the costs of temporarily housing them in Italy and bureaucratically processing them. This is added to the economic damage done once Europe is flooded by cheap unskilled labour which cannot secure gainful employment.
Better to spend the money by making it impractical, if not impossible, for them to risk the journey in the first place.
Alison
Just a slightly different context than how things are today. The Irish who landed in America were thoroughly screened and in genuine peril before they left ireland. They were often made citizens upon arrival and then immediately conscripted into the American military as cannon fodder so they earned the right to be there. Aside from the economy to which the Irish contributed a significant amount, the common language, culture, beliefs meant that integration was rather seamless. Pluck an illiterate immigrant from the many in this group, drop him into a modern, educated society and tell me he fits…
The integration of the irish was not as seamless as you paint it, sheik, at least not through the later 1840′s when the famine and British policy was driving them out. they were despised in America, in no small part due to the fact that they often carried “ship fever’ (typhus) with them when they disembarked. In fact, the US turned away many boats, such was the state of the passengers coming off these coffin ships.
Many ships had to divert to Canada for this reason, from where some migrants made their way overland to the US where they took the lowest of low jobs, working on the railroads and so on, or like you say, conscripted. Also many didn’t actually speak English when they arrived.
Check out the Duffy’s Cut Project online for an interesting story and google the quarantine station at Grosse Ile where many Canadians of all religions and nationalities sacrificed their own lives tending and caring for the Irish in the quarantine station there. It’s a very moving story.
Also I’ve never heard of migrants in the 19th century being screened before they left ireland, all they needed was their fare, maybe this happened in later years?
True, Sheik. In fact, the greatest number of Irishmen to fall in battle did so in the American civil war.
Dermot, I agree and I am aware of the illness, suffering and discrimination. The point I’m trying to make is that there is a stark difference between the migrating Irish and the African migrants, on many levels.
I think it’s also Important to point out that I believe everyone has the right to make a living, to feed themselves and provide a roof over their heads. Unfortunately, this is not the world we live in. South Asia and Africa contains billions of humans living in abject poverty. One important aspect of the solution is for them to develop sustainable States for their people to live in the same way much of Europe has – possibly with foreign assistance but not interference. The solution definitely isn’t for Europe to host millions of migrants with limited ability to support themselves. I fear that such a complex issue will never really find a sustainable solution and so while in the migrants situation, I would likely do the same, I don’t think it makes sense for an economically struggling region to accept more than market demand dictates.
Common language? Most of the Irish on the coffin ships couldn’t speak English!
Ann
Bhí an teanga ag fáil bás i bhfad roimhe sin! Major decline of irish started as far back as the 17th century. By the famine years, the best estimates have Irish as the main language for 35-40% of the population. In other words, the murder machine had done a good job. Fewer than half spoke Irish and most likely a bit of English, the remainder spoke English.
Yes they are. But they are illegal as well
They are refugees not migrants
Correct…using incorrect language is an attempt to dehumanise them, I’m disappointed the Journal choose to jump on that band wagon by also using that language
They are not refugees, they are simply chancers, all you self-righteous humanitarians haven’t a clue on the street how they smile and grin and talk about how stupid the Irish and Europeans are, how they talk about getting in here, getting Whitey to “help” them. They laugh at you, they are in stitches at how gullible you are, then in 20 yrs when we have gangs of their street urban rappers, talking about bitc*es and hoes, with rape and murder epidemic and no-go areas, you open-border pious nutters, will be nowhere to be seen, but leave us to get on with the harrassment and violence.
Allison Kerplunk-Hasselhoff
If that’s your real name, if they can pay up to € 10,000 they are not refugees, they could start a business in Africa with that.
Fugees
The EU should patrol the seas, pick these people up and bring them back to Libya.
Into the hands of ISIS who will duly kill them.
Boganity, most of these are economic migrants from areas not actually affected by ISIS. They are merely using the current instability in Libya to gain easier access to illegal smugglers who are willing to ship them across in rust-buckets.
Interesting how you’ve managed to talk to all 300 people on this sinking boat and got their life stories
@Mike, don’t you mean “take” them back to Libya or do you live there to say “bring”
So you comment on my assumptions while claiming to be able to predict the future of these people should we send them back. Hypocritical much?
Boko Haram in Nigeria, Ethopian Christians massacred by ISIS, lawlessness, war and famine in Somalia… but yeah, most of these people are just looking for a job.
Sure the Irish that were crammed inside famine ships were only heading to America to look for a job. America should have sent them packing back to Ireland and only allow those who correctly filled out the visa application forms in.
Yes Roly I live in Tripoli….Bring them back!!
You must have an inside track into this issue ,as you are such a humanitarian full of practical realistic common sense solutions , what way do you suggest we prevent these people from being exploited and drowned.
Boganity
I don’t see where he suggests that, do you ?
Anyway, there life story is easy, skip the climb up the ladder at home and free load somewhere else.
Here we go, the group that where celebrating the death of 700 people yesterday, or defending those that where, have arrived…like sharks they can smell blood
“the group that where celebrating the death of 700 people yesterday”
I don’t see anyone celebrating the deaths of migrants so your hyperbole is entirely unnecessary. You are starting to sound like a child throwing a tantrum because you can’t get your way.
Nobody is happy to see migrants dying in the Med. All we differ on is the treatment these illegal migrants should receive once caught.
@Ignoreland Nigeria is massive and its population expansion rates are off the scale. Africa is massive, why Europe? Because they are economic migrants and not refugees. The majority of them are fit young males wearing trendy clothes following in the footstep of the countless thousands that were already let in. Do you suggest that we absorb half of Africa because they have some problems that they cant sort out?
The Irish were needed in America at that point in history. The last thing that Europe needs is tens of thousands of unemployed black muslims knocking about the place, the kind that would drown you at the drop of a hat for wearing a cross.
@Jason Culligan: I’d like to see the statistical evidence on that.
They where yesterday Jason maybe you missed it, they’re here now just wait for it
@Damian Moran: And where are your qualifications that give you the expertise to talk about how the Irish were ”needed” in America at the time? Would you not also call them economic migrants? They certainly were not refugees. Also, I would like to see your evidence on how such immigrants have ”trendy clothes”, even though they are travelling on a boat that can’t even sail! Surely they would have hopped on a plane if that was the case? Ryanair and Easyjet do pretty good deals from Morocco these days and they only need a visa on arrival.
Oh wait, that’s right I forgot, you’re talking out of your behind!
@Alison Kerplunk-Hasselhoff the 90% failure rate for asylum in Ireland should give you a clear picture of the what the majority are. The tens of thousands now languishing on the dole should give you an idea of what awaits the new arrivals.
Yes, because we can trust the law as being 100% correct all of the time. Regardless of that and other things, I still do not see the evidence relating to the so-called wealthy migrants paying 10,000euros to some sleazy trafficker to bring them on a boat across the Mediterranean that does not even sail, which I requested in my above comment?
@Alison Kerplunk-Hasselhoff I simply have to look at the news footage to see that the majority are all young men dressed in trendy clothes. I do’t see any frail old people or the decimated people that can be seen in the real refugee camps dotted around Africa. The Irish built the majority of the rails roads in early American history, rough and dangerous work. Why don’t you take a look at the history.
The all had money for give to the smugglers didnt they? Its prats like you that want to give these people free homes and welfare when they arrive and then wonder the why the hell there are hundreds of thousands more of them lined up.
Now you are really talking crap. The facts do not suit you in this case.
I am only concerned with the safety at this moment in time, because I am humane enough to see the immediate rescue efforts that are required, due to the fact that people are now dying as we speak. I do not assume to judge any of those people thereafter. I don’t see why we cannot feel some sympathy towards these people who are, as I mentioned earlier, dying as we speak, instead of having to have an ill-informed debate about immigration. All we seem to care about is ourselves, money, money, money. Maybe for once we can try to imagine what it is like for them now, stranded in the middle of the sea?
Yes, the Irish did a wonderful job, so we are told, in America. (They were also the perpetrators of a lot of crime, I might add) Were they needed though? Perhaps. Was America lucky to have ”inherited” them? It’s the same case today with the UK’s NHS. It would be completely crippled without foreign-born workers. Your deduction is that everyone who you have seen on TV as being black and foreign wears trendy clothes, therefore, all black foreigners wear trendy clothes. How ridiculous is that, prat.
And I forgot to add that ”prats like me” do not decide on the overly generous social welfare system we have in place, which even more Irish “deadbeats” also take advantage of, hence cost you even MORE money as a taxpayer, so you would be wise to blame the system rather than those who take advantage of it.
You have a strange habit of deducing what suits you don’t you? The majority are fit young men looking for work. They are all dressed in trendy clothes that do not exactly fit the profile of a refugee fleeing a war zone. Maybe you should take a look at some of the footage from WW2 of refugees fleeing war zones and get an idea of what they look like. They were emaciated and wearing rags. Money should not be wasted on these people. It should be spent on the millions that are dying from starvation in the real refugee camps.
I have heard al the tired arguments about the NHS, its not as if them people are not earning their fortunes. Also, the majority of these young men do not speak English and have no skills.
What has the fact that some Irish people committed crimes in the America several hundreds of years ago got to do with hundreds of thousands of Africans making their way to Europe illegally every year? The crime rates in Europe would be massive if they received no help and you know that, so trying to tar the Image of the Irish during that period when you know full well that there was nothing in place for them is just about as low as it gets and it would seem that you are trying to incite hatred for them. It like me saying that it would be ok to commit genocide in Germany because the Germans did it. Totally illogical and highly childish and irresponsible way of thinking.
@ Alison Kerplunk-Hasselhoff Again more Irish bashing. We had 5% unemployment rate during the boom. Thats considered full employment. Where were all the deadbeats then? Your arguments are tired and silly and you seem to be a bit of a paddy basher. You don’t have a clue about what you are talking about.
As is using completely unsupported claims to suit your cause (and using insults to make your point more salient)
To paraphrase:
The men lying up for social welfare payments are wearing trendy clothes. They are not really fleeing a war-torn country. Those foreign-born workers at the NHS earn fortunes. They do not speak English. They have no skills. Have you ever even used the NHS in the UK? I have on plenty of occasions and have not had that experience at all. Which study or body of research are you referring to with regards to all of these statements?
Don’t you think that, perhaps, all of these statements you’ve raised are evidence of your own prevalent prejudice, racism and bigotry towards them, rather than actual substantiated truth?
And what has any of that got to do with saving people, biologically the same as you and I, from drowning in the sea?
As do you by using completely unsupported claims to suit your cause (and throwing around insults to make your point more salient)
To paraphrase:
The men lying up for social welfare payments are wearing trendy clothes. They are not really fleeing a war-torn country. Those foreign-born workers at the NHS earn fortunes. They do not speak English. They have no skills. Have you ever even used the NHS in the UK? I have on plenty of occasions and have not had that experience at all. Which study or body of research are you referring to with regards to all of these statements?
Don’t you think that, perhaps, all of these statements you’ve raised are evidence of your own prevalent prejudice, racism and bigotry towards them, rather than actual substantiated truth?
And what has any of that got to do with saving people, biologically the same as you and I, from drowning in the sea?
It’s funny how if I apparently ”bash” Irish people it’s a problem. But not if we bash anyone else! (I am Irish by the way, and I am not bashing Irish people, I am merely pointing to correlations between out own nation and others, the latter of which I am advocating for, ipso facto, I am also advocating for Irish migrants etc.)
@Alison Kerplunk-Hasselhoff You started with the insults. You see you are so blinded by your own self importance that you get offended when a person returns an insult, almost shocked it would seem.
You are putting words in my mouth now. I never stated anything about people wearing trendy clothes and social welfare. I simply made the observation about the actual people arriving on boats. It does not take much research to figure out that a nurse from Indonesia would have a lot more purchasing power in her home country that she would in the UK. You seem to be obsessed with research etc, can you not use your own brain?
Are you really that blind not to see that the fact they have being rescuing them has lead to a massive increase in their numbers and a more dangerous smuggling operation? If they had stopped over a year ago then those people would still be alive. There are over 500 thousands of them waiting in Libya to make the crossing.
“It’s the same case today with the UK’s NHS. It would be completely crippled without foreign-born workers.”
How many foreign-borne employees of the HSE do you think were smuggled through the Channel Tunnel into the UK compared to the number who went through the legal process of applying for a work visa?
There’s a big difference between legal immigration, which is both controlled and beneficial to the host, and illegal immigration which is both uncontrolled and damaging to the host.
Accidentally typed HSE instead of NHS, but the point still stands.
People tend to forget the immigrants go to the hospital too.
Maybe they can go and live with you.
Jason that’s a load of crock. Your saying they’re taking advantage of a time when it’s far dearer and more dangerous to cross than when it was quieter and safer. Do you just make these conclusions up?
@ Jason. So true we do not have the place for these poor people, in any European Country, we are bursting at the seems.
@ Alison. No he is dead right most of these people don’t have a passport don’t give a name or date of birth and will say anything to stay in a Country that is so removed from their own i wonder why they come to Europe
You wonder why they come to Europe? Really, are you that dense?
@TheHeathen. When i said i wonder, is it for money as everyone hears feels it is welfare and the rest or other motives. So take your dense and do what you like with it.
That should be here not hears, above
Nobody was celebrating anything.
Boganity
Get a grip on reality, your worse than the politicians, would not surprise me if you were one.
Look for it then.
You are as ever Mr fantastic.
“Celebrators” you’ve arrived late and without your Grand Pooh Bah. You would be wise to heed the words of Sun Tzu in future: “Whoever is first in the field and awaits the coming of the enemy, will be fresh for the fight; whoever is second in the field and has to hasten to battle will arrive exhausted.”
Jason, you have no idea what you’re talking about. It’s a shamefully convenient accusation to tar all of these desperate people as economic migrants. Even the most cursory investigation into their motivations reveals a horrorthon including kidnap, rape, persecution, terror. Perched atop such relatively unimaginable wealth & safety here in Ireland, it turns my stomach to repeatedly see the likes of your wilfully misinformed comments. I hope you’ll one day discover your humanity and see these people as the desperate human beings they really are.
Boganity, interesting how a load of African muslims on one of this boats turfed the Christian Africans off the boat, and you talk about ISIS, you fkn muppet, many of those coming here are muslim and also members of ISIS, Blood of Europeans on your hands dipstick.
Graham, you are a cosseted liberal all education no experience cad, what in other terminology is known as a dipsh*t. You haven’t a clue what circumstances these people came from. The fact the overwhelming amount are healthy, males who have decided to leave their families if as you say they have any, shows they are not the kind of people we want here, not to mention many may well be the violent rapists and murderers you mention, as also indicated by ISIS saying they were using the flotillas to get into Europe with an ISIS army, you moronic liberal bleeding heart., Except the blood will all be ours, the people at street level, not the cosseted monied pen*ses like yourself.
Boganity
Its called the Book of War, so, you hate the Irish people and are at war with them ! The likes of you will never make a warrior.
What are the North African countries which border the Med doing to save these people , nothing it seems ,the EU can’t do it all .
These boats should have been prevented from leaving Libyan coastal waters by naval blockade , if the EU can send ships to protect against Somali pirates they can surely send ships to stop traffickers sending these people to their deaths.
The West removed their dictators. Syria, Egypt, Libya are in chaos and lawless. Most people there are fighting for their lives. People getting onto boats aren’t high on their agendas.
@TheHeathen the difference being that after 2 years a western country, after our government dismantled would have got things under some semblance of control and normality by now and it’s not in our nature to form gangs or militia with young kidnapped brainwashed children as soldiers who go around beheading, mass murdering and raping in every village and town which wont follow your newly formed wet dream of a theocratic ruled country.
At some point African nations and there are enough of them, really need to sort out and take responsibility for their own affairs for the interests of their people and get their country out of the sh!thole situation it has been led down due to rampant corruption and violent suppressions of the opposition.
The idea of “get your sh*t together” is really not as simple as just saying it.
Many in the west celebrated the arab spring – seeing it as some kind of hope against repressive regimes. This hasn’t proved to be the case – Libya is in an absolute mess, they can’t just wake up tomorrow and say “sure why don’t we just lock people in”
Taking all the energetic males into Europe sure as shit makes sure Africa western puppets stay in place and the place never changes…..while also creating chaos in Europe, what do you think happens when you import a substantial portion of Africa into Europe, does Europe stay European, or become more and more like Africa? You’ve been warned, never say you weren’t.
This is getting ridiculous. Why are these people so determined to die getting to Europe?
Because they don’t want to die where they live?
Because once they get here they know that they are on the gravy train and a few years woking in Europe would set you up for life in Africa.
Well something needs to be done to prevent them wanting to leave home but I’m sure in our capitalist world there’s no profit in that
Al Fonso – we all know that most are NOT dying where they live.
Economic migrants are overwhelming legitimate refugees.
The answer is to STOP THESE BOATS ENTERING THE MED, not rescue them.
Shane , “our capitalist world” , isn’t that why they come , by the way did you use your laptop or I-phone to comment on the thread ? yeah capitalism sucks, doesn’t it.
If you cannot afford to eat or feed your family and you become ‘an immigrant’, is that an ‘economic migrant’ or someone who needs refuge and help? Lol, the ‘gravy’ train. What gravy train. They are looking for jobs. Most countries out there do not provide benefits to everybody as you seem to imply. In fact figures show that immigrants (legal or not) produce an net positive effect in countries economies. But of course, this requires said countries to have a political will to provide the infrastructural investment required to support a higher population.
“They are looking for jobs.”
If they are looking for jobs, they can apply for a working visa if they have any skills to bring to the table. If not then there’s no requirement for them. This hardline approach has worked quite well for places like Canada and Australia.
Al Fonso
What about their leaders, who perpetuate the tribal custom of appropriating their subject’s wealth for themselves?
Nigeria has the sixth-largest oil reserves in the WORLD, but most of the population live in poverty.
I didn’t cause that. Colonialism didn’t cause it, either.
And if the Eritreans want to fight what are essentially tribal wars, why should we help perpetuate infantile behaviour by picking-up the pieces?
Come on.
Al fonso – true most immigrants do want to work. Though what you’ve written makes it sound like we should have no borders – which of course is a ridiculous notion. Re: net benefits of migrants, those figures aren’t all that solid afaik, and how do we measure the social impacts of large scale immigration on the host society. Migration has it’s benefits, it also has major pitfalls.
Actually Shane, there’s loads of profit in it. The only problem is they are corrupt beyond our comprehension of corrupt. Big business is still too afraid to invest because of it. Loads of money to be made in Africa but it’s just too risky. If & when you see stability in the region it won’t be long before the vultures land.
Sometime ago a country I’m somewhat familiar with had many of its people ‘looking for jobs’ in other countries. They boarded boats that were, much like these ones today, floating coffins. But hey, they got to these other countries and got jobs and made fortunes there (or not).
Maybe you’d like to read up about this country. It is called Ireland.
Yeah they have a funny track record of making their way to the ones that do provide benefits, Sweden, Germany, all the hotspots. Where exactly are the jobs? Take a look at Italy for example. They fall right into the hands of the mafia, the women are sold on the streets and the men used to deal narcotics. If you want to help, then go over and help them in their own lands.
The EU have decided to go after the smugglers ad nip it in the bud. They will send in ground forces and deal with them.
No amount of funding can cope with tens of thousands of people arriving with nothing ad provide them with housing and all the other life needs. The Dutch took in 30 thousand of them last year and it costs an average of 27k per person per annum. You got a piggy bank like that lying around? Do the math with 200 thousand.
Al fonso – *groan* irish people emigrated to America in 1845 therefore we should take in whoever wants to live here? Preposterous.
The Irish didn’t land in America demanding housing, school places, social welfare, black economy jobs undermining indigenous workers – they contributed to a new country crying-out for people to populate it (at the expense of native Americans).
The Med has over 5500 of African coastline alone. How exactly do you propose to stop the boats entering the open seas?
Look at the size of the Australian coastline, they still manage to stop a significant portion of those attempting to illegally enter the country before they can reach ground.
And how many were trafficked and then left to drown .
Al Fonso
You can let them live in your home, leave the rest of us out of it, some of us have no home to go to here.
@yuba Bill i doubt the Americans saw the irish that way in reality.
I think the fact that people are prepared to board these coffin ships should show how desperate they are. Do you also think the Americans should have left he many Irish fleeing the famine die at sea ! They mostly are desperate people fleeing persecution in their own countries. Surprised at the amount of people lacking basic humanity !
Damian/ all. Charlie flanagan said on radio today that ireland would engage and I quotel him “with the resettlement process” which is another way of saying we will take many many more people so we don’t need to worry if there is direct flights to Africa we will be getting them direct from europe, probably thousands if not tens of thousands in the next 10 years! (Who will have to be housed fed, clothed, educated, health service,maternity,excetra excetra all at the taxpayers expense)
Why the red thumbs its true.
Al Fonso
So, in your demented mind the famine and the expulsion of the Scottish crofters was a plus for them ? Yes, the American Indians enjoyed it too.
Your an insane lame excuse for a human being, destroying our society won’t help these people.
Al fonso…another troll account. You know there is something wrong with you.
Do you know that if you gave your opinions/views and pleas properly, i speak fod me, i would probably listened to you.
What do you get out of hurting people by trolling?
When they are on a boat none of them thinks their boat is the one that will sink, they all think their boat will not sink. So none of them think they will be the ones to die. So they are not coming expecting to die. This is an invasion free-for-all, Europe is fkd, you’ve been warned, never say you weren’t.
@ Al – They are looking for jobs you say. Italy, Greece, Ireland don’t have jobs available for the natives of those countries, so why should a bunch of people who don’t belong in Europe and who aren’t the responsibility of the EU taxpayers be obliged to give them work, pay for food, education, medical, etc? And as a citizen of a country that has a lot of “economic migrants” coming over because they “want a job” I can tell you that when you get any foreign groups coming into a country, even one as large as the US, it not all puppies and rainbows. They are a drain on the infrastructure (schools, hospitals and social services). Some immigrants from UDCs come to the US and get on welfare here (I’ve been a cashier at a supermarket and have witnessed this first hand) and will milk the system all they can – so I’m sure it’s no different to those trying to get to Europe.
The West is not responsible for the corruption of the countries in Africa. We can’t save all the people there. Each country must take care of their own people and own country first – if there is surplus money, by all means send it to charities that truly help those in need. But taking in all those educated masses from Africa/Asia displaces the people that governments should truly be helping – their own citizens/constituents.
Al Fonso
Millions of people surviving in Africa, you are lying.
There is a proven way to stop these deaths in the short term. The Australian model. Number of illegal people on boats before Australia said we’re not rescuing people – 20,646 (2013); after 160 (2014).
Lies, damed lies and statistics: Australia’s refugees primarily come from countries where the Australian military have been engaged in wars for the past ten years. The turn back the boats policy has the Australian economy is in trouble because they’ve pissed off so many Asian countries by sending those refugees back to countries they never came from in the first place that they are boycotting Australian products.
I’ve heard similar stats from different sources so would tend to put stock in their veracity. Oz can’t have a policy of let the illegals in because we’ll have a backlash.
The only stats available are from the Australian government who don’t allow verification “for operational reasons”. So what you’re calling “different sources” is just government stats being repeated by others so they are coming from different outlets not different sources.
The majority of these boat people are the kind of people who kill Christians just for being christian, they even throw them overboard from these boats, these Islamic loonies hate us and our way of life, they refuse to integrate with us when they do get here, they form ghettos where the men refuse to allow the women to be educated or learn the language of the host country, they want all the benefits that West has to offer and then their offspring will try to kill us like 7/7 bombers and Lee Rigby murderers all in the name of their sick and vile religion. I for one do not want to live among those who hate me so much they would kill me just for being a non believer. We have enough of these idiots and do not need anymore.
Non believer checking in – from a muslim country. Not dead yet…..
Some ridiculous generalisation going on here.
IOM receive a call from a boat sinking with 2 other boats nearby and are given it’s position? How many people reading this comment would ring anybody else but the Coastguard or 999 in the same position? Like I commented on an earlier thread, the EU patrolling the area are just cutting the costs for the traffickers who put in just enough fuel to get the boat into international waters and let the EU do the rest.
Traffickers stick a guy in charge of the boat, give him a satellite phone (how many migrants have one of those handy?), tell him to ring the IOM because the Coastguard will have to do something about it then. Sit back wait for a rescue ship to approach and then knock a few holes in the hull.
What are you suggesting as a solution? If a boat is just left adrift with no coastguard coming to it, how exactly do you think that’s going to end??
The UN/EU needs to assemble a team of immigration specialists and get on the ground in Libya and other North African countries ports to work on breaking up smuggler groups. If thousands of people can find these smugglers/agents to hand over huge sums of cash like a thousand dollars per head then it should be fairly easy to survey and build a picture of the organisational structure of the operations to bring them down.
Work on policies on the ground to discourage boat owners selling boats to people who do not appear to be representing commercial interests and perhaps offer incentives.
Setup Tip-line’s to report people gathering at piers to be smuggled etc.with signs along the coast offering rewards for information. Even installing 3G remote cameras over looking piers and strategic locations which upload photos of each pier every 10 minutes to a monitoring centre either in Libya or Italy which can coordinate land and sea units to prevent smuggler boats from leaving the coastline. Drop a network of radar buoys 5 miles off the coast which monitors and track north moving vessels from Africa, etc.
Such operation cost pales in comparison to the price of dealing with illegals once on European soil. At the end of the day, the EU urgently needs to get up and pull its thumb from its ass and get on the offensive as this will only continue and more and more people will die needlessly at sea daily, to think otherwise is naive at best unless the delusional liberals want European countries to transport these immigrants to our shores ourselves to prevent further capsizing and drownings becasue that certainly wont be happening.
If these people are sent straight back, the message will be that Europe ain’t open for being invaded. 1 billion people who have not stopped war for centuries after trillions of aid, import them into Europe, what do you get?
They should be rescued, medically treated if needed, fed and then repatriated back to africa. As for germany taking in most of the refugees, well germany wants to control europe and the eu super-quango, so tough luck if you are swamped with hard luck cases.
Or maybe Africa should now sort it’s own problems out like our ancestors had to, they have been given trillions, enough aid assisstance and know how, why are they not able to do this?
“The coast guard will redirect commercial ships to the area.” Absolutely no training in sea rescue, it is the responsibility and the moral duty of the European Union to provide the necessary maritime resources to avoid anymore of these tragedies.
It’s standard procedure to redirect commercial traffic nearby to assist as the coast guard can’t be everywhere at once. A passing freighter or fishing boat might be hundreds of kilometers closer to an incident than the nearest patrol vessel and can offer vital initial aid.
I work aboard construction vessels and the crew of these vessels are highly trained to rescue people from the water.
Yes it’s the law of the sea
The law of the sea is being abused.
Prey tell ?
Afaik the law of the sea dictates that the nationality of the rescue ship makes the migrants the responsibility of that nation.
Boganity,
People going afloat in overcrowded vessels without a hope of making the journey they intend?
Maybe every vessel in the Med should wait for them to put into the water as near to Libya as possible? might be safer.
Possibly…but that would require political leadership and there ain’t any of that in Europe, it’s as scarce as hens teeth
Boganity
Get off your arse and help your own people that need it, set an example for these people to follow.
You’re the duty troll today…it must be rookies day ?
Boganity
Why wont you reveal which freeloading organisation pays your wage, is it an NGO or do you work for the corrupt government ?
35,000 have landed already this year and there still is no EU strategy to deal with this , if the EU spent less time bombing these peoples countries to effect regime change and more time discouraging them from coming by fair but stricter immigration controls there wouldn’t be dead people being brought ashore .
Invasion
How people forget we left these shores in boats !
Some in chains to the great south land
John Teevan
Yes many did, and the Indians suffered, mass migration only causes problems.
You make it sound like the Irish were welcomed with open arms wherever they went. Those sent to Australia were prisoners being sent to a penal colony, the ones who left to North America were assessed by harsh criteria and the chances of them being put back on a Coffin Ship for the return journey were high.
That’s assuming they survived the journey there in the first place. The key difference is that the countries we emigrated to were in need of cheap unskilled labourers. The EU today needs skilled workers for our high-skill economy, we have little need for unskilled labourers who will struggle to find gainful employment and place strain on our economy.
Boganity
So we should stop it, every nation has a right to dignity, not to be shifted about like cattle, at the whim of corrupt corporate governments that use it to oppress their own people.
We are told we must suffer because these people have priority over our needs, who creates this exodus ?
John Teevan
Some Irish must have made a fortune, charging them thousands to get on famine ships with all the info they needed where to get the best social welfare and rent allowance in the US.
Jason nobody in this thread above your comment said anything that makes it sound as if the Irish where welcomed with open arms ???
Yuba, you’ve clearly never tried to claim social welfare in the States.
Some people are to dumb to learn from other peoples mistakes
Or too desperate
Boganity
Yep, too desperate to get all the freebies our politicians have promised them.
Wheres the sharks when you need them
I don’t know which is more disgusting: your comment or the number of green thumbs it got
If the West hadn’t created so much instability in North Africa greedily robbing them of their valuable resources this problem wouldn’t even exist. We reap what we sow.
Why are these boats constantly getting into trouble and how are the rest that aren’t getting into trouble docking?
I’m sure you’ll tell us…you always do, but we’d rather not hear what goes on under that pointy hat of yours
They just want a job???? … No one who just wants a job leaves everything to go to sea in a boat that clearly isn’t safe, and certainly no one who isn’t desperate brings their children in such a boat.
The problem here seems to be the assumption of equality: That we have as much to lose as those in the boats do. We don’t. We haven’t a feckin clue how good and easy and safe we have it. So we will keep wondering why the peasants are revolting, and send them back to their homelands with the words ‘let them eat cake’.
Is there any way that the countries of origin can be fined to cover costs. Some of them, at least, can afford it. Syria had 569 fixed-wing aircraft and 191 rotary-wing (pre 2012 civil war), as well as a well equipped army and navy. If they can afford that they can afford the upkeep of the people they force to migrate.
Anyone ever hear of the French policy called ‘franceafric’ , its basically the handle for the French governments policies in Africa related to French business, I sure the americans and plenty of EU governemnts and definately China have similar policies.
Id like to see more discussion about how these policies have possibly triggered mass migration from there to here…
For example if you have 2 political rivals in Africian country X , and one seems more pro business, but a bit of a despot at home, while the other is more interested in their citizens well being, maybe a bit left leaning. If the west supports the ‘pro-business’ candidate and he gets elected , starts clamping down on dissent in his own country , can we in the EU really turn back migrants who are fleeing this treatment?
I dont think so , and its a bit crap to be looking down our noses at them …
Germany 1940s Derek. Us westerners are so civilised, always have been
What happened to human dignity??? Looking out for people s lives … Disregarding colour creed race… Oh and politics… God forgive us as a nation I hang my head in shame
I’m with you…not only is the contempt for human life disgraceful but it’s delivered with utter pride as if some bill of rights somewhere gives one life value over another by virtue of where that life was born.
Blame George Bush and Tony Blair for this. I wonder what Merica would do if they were arriving on their shores.
Ireland must speak up to #RestartTheRescue add your voice at https://www.change.org/p/irish-government-taoiseach-enda-kenny-td-restarttherescue
I think it fair to assume that at least the commenters on the J.ie have spoken up , and by a margin of 6 to 1 we reject the views of the Immigrant Council.ie.
Chuck Feeney’s money has been a bane in the side when it comes to Irish social issues , sooner he’s broke the better for all concerned. Hardly likely however , seeing as his philanthropy has little to do with charity and a whole lot more to do with profit in the form of social impact bonds.
What on earth is wrong with you people
People feel free to express opinions anonymously on the internet that they know wouldn’t be tolerated in the real world. So essentially what you’re seeing here is an insight in the depths of people’s souls and how easy it is for evil to take control of good people.
Thousands of their ancestors died on coffin ships destined for the Americas. They were economic migrants too. Yet compassion goes out the window when other people do the exact same thing in the present day.
Africans and Asians are unpeople to them – the “Other” (with a capital-o) – and so, not being real humans worth caring about, can be talked about in such ways. Much like how the British used to talk about the Irish during the famine times.
The journal littered with ignorant racists who cannot see the little fact that their beloved EU along with Britain And the US bombed Libya killed their leader and supported Al Queda now want all these people deported . The devil awaits yere horrible minds.
I thought the right-wing loved “free markets”. If that were true then how can they support restrictions on the free movement of labour? All border/immigration restrictions are forms of economic protectionism – protecting your indigenous labour force from competition – something they’re supposed to be against.
Funny how ones principles go out the window when it’s convenient.
have your say