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Pictured (LtoR) former Minister Gemma Hussey, Former Minister Nora Owen and former Minister Madeleine Taylor-Quinn discuss the 8th Amendment in Buswells Hotel. Sam Boal

Nora Owen says she was 'confronted' and 'attacked' in Leinster House during the 1980s abortion debate

Fine Gael women who served as politicians in 1983 joined female politicians from the current Dáil to discuss the Eighth Amendment.

FORMER JUSTICE MINISTER Nora Owen said she remembers being “confronted” and “attacked” in Leinster House in the 1980s during the abortion debate.

At the time, leaders of both Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael committed to holding a referendum on the Eighth Amendment.

On a turnout 53.7%, the referendum was passed by a majority of 66.9% in favour of the Eighth Amendment to 32.1% against.

As the days to referendum on repealing the amendment from the Constitution draw closer, Fine Gael women who served as politicians in 1983 joined female politicians from the current Dáil yesterday to discuss the Eighth Amendment.

Former politicians who attended today include, Nora Owen, Gemma Hussey and Madeleine Taylor-Quinn.

‘Frightening people’

Reflecting on that time period, Owen said the campaign build-up to the 1983 referendum “frightened people”.

It was an era before emails and social media, she said, adding that politicians received “thousands and thousands” of pro-life cards in the post.

“At the time, Dáil security was not as good as it is now and people were allowed bring visitors in and then essentially abandon them along the halls of the Dáil,” said Owen.

She remembers times where she was intimidated by visitors along the Leinster House corridors over her views on abortion, stating that she was “confronted” and “attacked” while at work.

“If you did not immediately agree with them you were plain and simple an abortionist.”

Speaking yesterday, the former minister said the Eighth Amendment did not have to be included in the Constitution at the time, and called for it to be removed.

Owen also recalled Ireland’s relationship with sex and contraception in the 1980s, stating that women’s magazines from the UK which were available in Ireland had to be re-published for an Irish audience.

She said women almost had to bring their marriage certificate to their doctors in order to get contraception from their GP.

“That might seem like centuries ago – it didn’t happen centuries – it happened in the 80s,” she said.

fine gael 519_90545537 Pictured (LtoR) Senator Catherine Noone, Frances Fitzgerald TD, former Minister Gemma Hussey discuss the 8th Amendment Sam Boal Sam Boal

Madeleine Taylor-Quinn, who served as a TD and senator for over 20 years, said she remembers coming up against the Catholic Church over her views on the abortion and the Eighth Amendment in 1983.

She too said was subjected to “harassment”, she said.

As a rural TD, Taylor-Quinn said she also had to deal with members of the Catholic Church, stating that she was confronted by parish priests, monsignors and even had a “clash” with the bishop.

Chairing the talk, former Justice Minister Frances Fitzgerald said the vote on Friday is a “watershed” moment for women in Ireland.

She said it is important that Ireland’s legislation “reflects the reality of the situation”, adding that ultimately, it is about “trusting women”.

Current Fine Gael women such as Catherine Noone, Kate O’Connell and Josepha Madigan urged people to vote Yes on Friday.

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34 Comments
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    Mute Sinead Mooney
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    May 23rd 2018, 6:05 AM

    Brave ladies. Hoping they get to see a Yes brought in this Friday.

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    Mute Gearoid Mag Lennain
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    May 23rd 2018, 6:36 AM

    @Sinead Mooney: hopefully and it will be the last time religious fascists tell others how they should live!

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    Mute Sinead Mooney
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    May 23rd 2018, 8:40 AM

    @Gearoid Mag Lennain: next on the agenda… religious education where it belongs…church not school!

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    Mute Patrick J. O'Rourke
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    May 23rd 2018, 8:56 AM

    @Gearoid Mag Lennain: I somehow think it wont be the last time unfortunately. We have to get them out of the schools next as they still have access to our childrens’ early minds and all we can do is fight it at home by teaching them to question everything.

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    Mute Larry Doherty
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    May 23rd 2018, 11:38 AM

    @Gearoid Mag Lennain: a bit like other fascists telling people who should die.

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    Mute Craig Barry
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    May 23rd 2018, 12:52 PM

    @Gearoid Mag Lennain: Im voting NO for very sound reasons as I have done my own research and not hopped on the pc train that never seems to stop running in this poxy country, and… I am in no way religious just using some independent thinking, a quality that is unfortunately bereft with so many folks here

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    Mute Barry Somers
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    May 23rd 2018, 6:26 AM

    Anyone speaking out against the 8th in the 1980s risked so much, not just abuse but they risked a whole town being turned against them.

    If they had a business a few words from the priest could ruin they’re business back then.

    These were brave people.

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    Mute DJ François
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    May 23rd 2018, 6:49 AM

    I remember the fanatics shouting murderer at anyone who brought up any ojection to the 8th, including, all the issues which turned out to be true.
    I remember the rosary beads and statues of Mary being waved in the anti 8th people’s faces.
    35 years the no side have attempted to block any chance of a change. No compassion for women at all.
    I was17 in 83 and have waited a long time to remove the 8th. I cannot wait to vote yes this Friday, and hopefully consign the 8th to history

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    Mute Aedín
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    May 23rd 2018, 7:16 AM

    @DJ François: much like no campaigners now being shouted Down and labelled anti women.

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    Mute Sinead Mooney
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    May 23rd 2018, 8:40 AM

    @Aedín: well…they are

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    Mute Craig Barry
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    May 23rd 2018, 12:55 PM

    @Sinead Mooney: care to back that up with any facts or is “they are” as far as you can intellectually go in a discussion?

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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    May 23rd 2018, 7:54 PM

    @Craig Barry: the same people calling for no are the same people who resisted legislation enacted to make abortion allowable in cases where the mother’s life is at risk; they are the same people who voted against a proposal to make marital rape illegal; some of them are the same people who voted against legalizing contraception. If they are not anti women stances, I don’t know what are. Danny Healy Rae, pro lifer, in the Dail last week was lamenting the passing of the good old days when women had no choice but to give in to their husbads’ demands and ended up popping out a baby every year until their bodies were destroyed beyond repair. Ronan Mullen, referring to the case of a pregnant 12 year old referred to her as a woman. I could go on with more examples all night, the are so many

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    Mute Cassie Lyons
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    May 23rd 2018, 6:43 AM

    They’re hardly brave. They’re picking on a defenseless human being who can’t defend itself.

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    Mute David Cagney
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    May 23rd 2018, 6:53 AM

    @Cassie Lyons: Yawn! The rhetoric is getting so tiresome now. Move along folks, nothing of substance to see in here.

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    Mute Ian Phillip Creaner
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    May 23rd 2018, 6:53 AM

    @Cassie Lyons: Black or White. That’s all you people have to offer. Life is not as simplistic as your holy communion fairytale fantasies. Reality is a messy business for grown up.

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    Mute Craig Barry
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    May 23rd 2018, 12:57 PM

    @Ian Phillip Creaner: why do people like you from the pc brigade keep stating that if you are in the NO camp you are a religious nut? where is your reasoning? the 8th amendment is black and white not necessarily peoples opinions…

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    Mute Niamh
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    May 23rd 2018, 6:49 AM

    We have to remain respectful towards each other – everyone is entitled to their opinion and there is no excuse for any behaviour which suggests otherwise, and that is on both sides.

    That said, this is a passionate time for a lot of people. The lives of innocent and unborn children are at stake here. We have to protect them. Will Irish women still have an abortion? Unfortunately yes – but no way near at the levels if the eighth amendment is repealed. As soon as you make something legal, it becomes easier. As soon as you make something easier, more people will do it. You only have to look at the UK and France where a third of women have an abortion at some stage in their life. Repeal will lead to abortions being granted for any reason up to 12 weeks – this will lead to an abortion culture – when we currently have amongst the lowest abortion rates of any European country. The eighth amendment has saved hundreds of thousands of lives of healthy male and female babies. As a society, we do need better sex education in schools – but please don’t tell me that women need abortion – we need support – not abortion.

    I have heard a lot of ‘my body my choice’ talk. In terms of people’s bodies – you can choose to have a tattoo – or not have a tattoo. You can choose to have your ears pierced or not have your ears pierced. You can choose to wear a mini-skirt or not wear a mini-skirt. You can choose to grow your hair long or not grow your hair long. But please can you not take the choices away from an innocent and vulnerable baby by killing them. If a mother was about to kill her baby outside of the womb – I would hope that you would try to prevent her from doing so. Please ensure you make it very much your place to do the same if the baby is in the womb even if the location is different. ‘Abortion is a human right’. Human rights are things like having enough food to eat, having shelter and the right to grow old. Taking the life of your unborn child is not a human right. ‘Abortion is healthcare’. Healthcare is things like receiving cancer saving treatment. Abortion is not healthcare.

    Life begins at conception – there may be no windows in the womb but that doesn’t change the fact that an unborn baby has a heartbeat at 18 days, can yawn after 52 days and can smile after 12 weeks. We need more love in this world. Stopping that heartbeat is not love – whether you are Catholic, Muslim, Jewish, Agnostic or Atheist – anyone can see that. I appreciate that pregnancies may not always occur at a convenient time and can be challenging – but however hard it is, we cannot take it out on the unborn child. There are so many couples out there giving away their kidney to adopt your child. We need to choose life and love over death and hate! #prolife #prowomen #probabies #protecttheeighth #lovebothvoteno

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    Mute Ian Phillip Creaner
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    May 23rd 2018, 6:56 AM

    @Niamh: The lives of children?!!!! The lives of women are at stake. Bury your head in the sand why don’t you. Just keep repeating your mantra of untruths.

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    Mute Boyne Sharky
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    May 23rd 2018, 7:11 AM

    @Niamh: You are factually wrong. There is no consensus within the medical community on when life begins, a foetus does NOT have a heartbeat at 18 days, and it is physically impossible for a foetus to yawn at 52 days – or at any point for that matter. If you believe something the size of a walnut can smile, and have it detected at 12 weeks. Right.
    Let me ask, if a 13 year old girl should be raped and pregnant, would you allow her to have an abortion, yes or no?

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    Mute DJ François
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    May 23rd 2018, 8:06 AM

    @Niamh: cut n paste

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    Mute Lidia Franciosa
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    May 23rd 2018, 10:57 AM

    @Niamh: i respect your opinion you are entitled to it. However I would like to point out it is not the job of a women in a crisis pregnancy to provide a baby for someone “giving up a kidney” for a child. I understand your concerns about abortion however the fact of the matter is that the 8th is putting women’s lives at risk. To quote doctor Boylan death is a very low bar to set. While someone may give up a kidney for a child they have the choice to give it up!! A person can not be forced to give up a kidney or give blood to save a persons life but a woman can be forced to carry a baby because it has a heartbeat even though the baby has no chance of survival. This is putting women’s lives at risk. Because she is not dying a doctor can do nothing because of the 8th this is so wrong imo.

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    Mute Craig Barry
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    May 23rd 2018, 12:48 PM

    @Boyne Sharky: I agree with the facts you stated in so far as the medical community cannot agree on when life begins, however, I would ask you to look at an ultrasound of an 8 week old foetus and have another think, there are some videos on youtube

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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    May 23rd 2018, 9:02 AM

    We shouldn’t forget that one-third of voters voted against the Amendment back in 1983. That’s a lot of people, especially considering the climate of the times.

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    Mute Niamh
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    May 23rd 2018, 7:06 AM

    Hi Ian. What do you mean by the lives of women? 50% of unborn babies are women. Abortion is already legal in this country when the women’s life is at risk. I strongly recommend a read of this article.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/medical-myths-about-eighth-amendment-must-be-challenged-1.3451748

    Please give an example of anything I have said which is untrue.

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    Mute George Hogan
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    May 23rd 2018, 7:25 AM

    @Niamh: The No Side are now referring to foetuses as women!?!? When will this nonsense end!

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    Mute David Cagney
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    May 23rd 2018, 7:28 AM

    @Niamh: Here goes…
    “We have to be respectful towards each other” – We don’t actually, there are many reasons not to respect someone under many circumstances.

    “Unfortunately yes – but no way near at the levels if the eighth amendment is repealed” You have no evidence to make this claim.

    “this will lead to an abortion culture” Again, no reason to make this claim.

    “Taking the life of your unborn child is not a human right” – the ability to choose to have an abortion is part of your human rights.

    “Abortion is not healthcare” – the ability to choose to have an abortion is part of a healthy healthcare system.

    “Life begins at conception” – who says, the catholic church? Is a sperm cell alive? is an egg alive?

    “baby has a heartbeat at 18 days” – I presume you mean foetus, it doesn’t.

    “can yawn after 52 days” – no concept of breathing, it’s not yawning.

    “smile after 12 weeks” – what’s a smile and why to people do it? it’s a socially constructed method we have of greeting and of no use in a womb.

    “There are so many couples out there giving away their kidney to adopt your child” – this doesn’t even merit a comment.

    Regardless of the untruths of your post, what’s really annoying is your use of language. Killing babies and the like. It’s just not accurate.

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    Mute SIGTERM
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    May 23rd 2018, 10:36 AM

    “If you did not immediately agree with them you were plain and simple an abortionist.”

    And nothing, it seems, has changed in the years since 1983.

    The fundamentalist ‘No’ campaigners still can’t be reasoned with.

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    Mute Craig Barry
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    May 23rd 2018, 12:46 PM

    @SIGTERM: so folks that do support abortion in cases of medical merit but not as an elective method of contraception and will therefore vote NO are fundamentalist? Yeah great logic there, wonder who the real fundamentalist is here

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    Mute SIGTERM
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    May 23rd 2018, 1:07 PM

    @Craig Barry: Your so-called “elective method of contraception” is a red herring.

    A person needs to go past a lot of methods of contraception before settling on abortion as a last resort. Going by your logic, it’s like using a bullet in the head to cure a headache.

    Anyway, where are these supporters of abortion for solely medical reasons? I haven’t seen any…

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    Mute Craig Barry
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    May 23rd 2018, 1:16 PM

    @SIGTERM: hard to see anything from your blinkered view – have spoken to a lot of people who are of the same opinion in term of medical abortion -

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    Mute SIGTERM
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    May 23rd 2018, 1:45 PM

    @Craig Barry: “…have spoken to a lot of people who are of the same opinion in term of medical abortion”

    lol. Of course you have…

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    Mute Lidia Franciosa
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    May 23rd 2018, 5:48 PM

    @Craig Barry: wow Craig elected contraception….abortion is not an easy choice and this argument is mute….no woman says ah to hell with contraception l’ll just have an abortion and if this is what you believe then I think you need to speak to women who’ve had abortions or read their stories

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    Mute Craig Barry
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    May 23rd 2018, 12:42 PM

    seems if you are a NO voter you are attacked on social media

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    Mute Paul Kelleher
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    May 23rd 2018, 6:40 PM

    I was just turning 18 before the last referendum in ’83 and didn’t vote. At the time it just didn’t make sense to me that a situation where a mother’s life was equal to a zygote or fetus in the womb. I heard lots of mothers at the time saying they would willingly give up their life to allow their baby to survive, giving no thought to their existing duty of care to their other children. In my young mind i thought this was crazy and I still can’t get my head around how a mature or young adult woman’s life is equal to the said zygote or fetus. Every woman’s story is unique to them and I will be voting YES to ensure each story is cherished and respected regardless of the decision between the woman and their support network. One person I wouldn’t wish any woman have in their support structure would be Patricia Casey. Her performance last night on Prime Time was truly awful. A Psychiatrist with little compassion or empathy is no use to a woman/girl in a crisis pregnancy situation.

    3
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