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What's next? Breaking religious influence over education with a Citizens Assembly model

If the constitution is the problem, then the models previously used such as the Constitutional Convention and the Citizens Assembly should be utilised to address the issue, writes Aodhán Ó Ríordáin.

AFTER LAST WEEKEND’S resounding success of the ‘Repeal the 8th’ campaign, the question is already being asked: what next?

Housing, education, poverty and health are constant struggles for Irish political life to get to grips with. For me the cause of overhauling our drug policy is central to how we show compassion and end stigma for some of our most vulnerable citizens.

But these issues do not require constitutional change to be dealt with effectively. The next constitutional cause must be to break religious influence over education, and I feel the Citizens Assembly model is the best way to address it.

Religious patronage

The vast majority of our schools are under religious patronage, with approximately 98% at primary level. Various attempts have been made over the years to address this including the Labour Party’s establishment of the Forum on Patronage and Pluralism in 2011.

While soundings from Church authorities have been positive, the actual rate of divestment of schools from religious control to multi-denominational models has been painfully slow. The constitution is the problem.

As Minister of State in the Department of Justice I tackled the infamous Section 37 of the Employment Equality Act which effectively exempted schools from legislation outlawing discriminating against those who might ‘undermine their ethos’ including LGBT teachers, unmarried parents who were teachers and divorced teachers.

When addressing the ‘baptism barrier’ which bars children who aren’t baptised from entering their local schools, Departmental officials are keen to impress on political representatives the limits that to which their efforts we can go. Legislation being debated this week is suspected to face a court challenge. The constitution is the problem.

Baptism barrier

When Louise O’Keeffe, a victim of sexual abuse by a teacher, took her case through the European courts she was chased at every turn by the Department of Education because they refused to accept that they were ultimately responsible. The constitution is the problem.

When trying to drive through initiatives such as anti-homophobic and transphobic bullying policies, free book schemes, uniform policy or the thorny issue of sex education – they have a more difficult path because of the power of patrons. The constitution is the problem.

The  reality is that the patrons run the show in Irish education, not the Department and not the Minister. We do not have a State education system – we have a State funded education system which farms out responsibility for the running of schools to patron bodies. They are empowered by various articles in the constitution which have been interpreted as affirming the right of parents to have their children educated through the ethos of their choice.

The offending language in Articles 42 and 44 relating to Education and to Religion are depressingly outdated but they are all the churches need to maintain their influence. Even the article guaranteeing free primary education is deliberately ambiguous – it says the State shall provide ‘for’ free primary education. That word ‘for’ means that someone else can provide it – not necessarily the State.

Why?

So why is it that the overarching principle that underpins our education system is religious? Why are we still separating children on the basis of religion? Is it really worth all of the undermining of employment rights of teachers, and educational rights of parents and children to maintain the status quo?

It is also the reason why so many of our schools are separated by gender, and why competition between schools remains so prevalent which leaves inevitably to inequality in our system.

So if the constitution is the problem, then the models previously used such as the Constitutional Convention and the Citizens Assembly should be utilised to address the issue. The problematic articles are overlapping and complex which potentially conflict with property rights and to freedom of religion. But the conversation is worthy of us because our education system is not fit for the society we live in, and thousands of parents want change.

If the Constitutional Convention helped to deliver Marriage Equality, and the Citizens Assembly helped to Repeal the 8th amendment, then a similar body could help point the way to a modern, secular and equality-based education system for a modern Ireland.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin is a Labour Party Senator.

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    Mute Joe Traynor
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    Jul 11th 2013, 6:53 AM

    What a complete waste of money, this is going to be a bonanza for dodgy fas trained web designers putting up lame websites for dog groomers and hairdressers. Any business that has a genuine online business model should invest in their own business. Instead of a grant why not a low interest loan?

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    Mute Andy Murray
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    Jul 11th 2013, 7:21 AM

    Joe, I have grown a business from 1 employee to 14 without any financial backing over the last few years, so I feel qualified to comment here. First off, I think this is an excellent idea – for a small business this would be a huge help. Businesses NEED to be on the web these days, but it does cost about 2500 for the most basic decent web presence (unless you are a web designer yourself). Small businesses don’t have that kind of money. It’s a vicious circle. You know you could increase sales (way more than 2500 per year) with a good web presence, but you don’t have the spare money to get one and the banks won’t lend it to you unless you are buying something tangible that they could repossess if they had to. Websites do not fall into this category.
    Second, there’s nothing wrong in Fas trained people. Whenever I hear people talking down FAS training, I know they have never employed anyone who has completed a fas course. It’s an unfounded prejudice with no basis in fact, you are merely quoting “bloke down the pub says…” and it doesn’t reflect well on you. I’ve employed 4 fas trained people and they are excellent.

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    Mute Andy Murray
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    Jul 11th 2013, 7:23 AM

    Having said all that, yes, I think the idea of a low cost loan, with a long repayment period is a fair compromise, though.

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    Mute Jeroen Bos
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    Jul 11th 2013, 7:32 AM

    I agree with most of your points Andy, but I think Joe is talking about FAS trained web designers. I am a web designer myself and I agree with him that a course in web design with FAS doesn’t make you a designer. You might learn how a website can be created, mostly with outdated software and techniques, but the design part is not taught. This results in pretty ugly bloated websites.

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    Mute cormac flynn
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    Jul 11th 2013, 9:16 AM

    IT Developers can not be got at the moment, lucky for them they are flat out if they are good.

    Good sentiment here but poor execution again. Grants are a joke. We need on the ground assistance, less red tape and a lowering of costs for doing business.

    This is like what FF did in the 90s &00s horsing out grants to build and worsened a “building bubble”. IT Developers will do as the builders did and jack up prices.

    I wonder if an IT lobby had anything to do with this decision??
    Oh I am getting very cynical about politics in this country.

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    Mute john cooling
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    Jul 11th 2013, 10:37 AM

    Andy I have what I believe to be a brilliant web based business idea but cannot secure funding to get it off the ground,as a man who seems to know about such things what would you recommend my next step to be? Thanks in advance.

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    Mute Darren Ó Ceallaigh
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    Jul 11th 2013, 3:21 PM

    John, I’m working on a few ideas online myself at the present with a business partner. There are ways of doing it cheap. Drop me an email if you’re interested, darrenoceall@gmail.com

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    Mute Paul Roche
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    Jul 12th 2013, 2:31 AM

    Use open source software, dip into your own pocket and start designing.

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    Mute Andy Murray
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    Jul 12th 2013, 6:49 AM

    John, try kickstarter. Crowd funding is really taking off. Either that or talk to enterprise Ireland about their hpsu (high potential start up) programme. Good luck.

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    Mute myownboss
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    Jul 11th 2013, 7:34 AM

    Why not cut real business costs for us like rates! If 2,500 was gone off my rates bill this year it would be a start! Government please start listening to small business’s, we are on our knees. Asking business’s who don’t have a shilling to spare to “match” any money invested by government is down right insulting at this moment in time, as we struggle daily to pay government induced costs. We need urgent incentives that mean something, not watery options like this were only a few will benefit!

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    Mute Taxi Bill
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    Jul 11th 2013, 9:31 AM

    Lets face iy it looks better for Rabbitte to be seen givng out (taxpayers) money than cutting rates and sorting out restrictive rent contracts.

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    Mute Adam Hurley
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    Jul 11th 2013, 11:12 AM

    Your rates aren’t set by central government they’re set by your local authority.

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    Mute Patitas
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    Jul 11th 2013, 7:23 AM

    In the meantime at Enda’s breakfast table…eur 50 tax for every new domain plus we can create the mb tax, that works out at…

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    Mute John Thomas
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    Jul 11th 2013, 7:34 AM

    Once the money is handed over to a damn good web designer or developer then I think it’s a great idea for small business. Portfolio and good testimonials/refererrals can help you find the right developer or else It’s money down the drain.

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    Mute David S. Armstrong
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    Jul 11th 2013, 8:48 AM

    Seconded.

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    Mute TheIrishBrain
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    Jul 11th 2013, 9:25 AM

    People with MONEY to purchase products, thats what small business requires.

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    Mute Ger
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    Jul 11th 2013, 1:53 PM

    A business owner that needs to be incentivised to get online, is not a business owner that should be in business.

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    Mute richardmccarthy
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    Jul 11th 2013, 8:14 AM

    I just find it incredible that just 37pc of SME business in this country use the internet and now they are being subsidised by the taxpayers with a grant to do do,i have used it for years and im nearing 70,and would find life impossible without it, as would most people,as i say it just beggers belief.

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    Mute Darren Norris
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    Jul 11th 2013, 9:49 AM

    sPEND IT IMPROVING THE BROADBAND NETWORKS OUTSIDE OF DUBLIN, THEN MAYBE A BUSINESS CAN ACTUALLY GET ONLINE TO SET UP A WEBSITE!

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    Mute Niall Ó Dochartaigh
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    Jul 11th 2013, 7:31 AM

    Super idea! Good move by the govt!

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    Mute TheIrishBrain
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    Jul 11th 2013, 9:22 AM

    You really must be stupid.

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    Mute Niall Ó Dochartaigh
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    Jul 11th 2013, 9:33 AM

    Hey Brian,

    Take your negative comments and name calling some place else. If you have a counter suggestion on how the govt can assist small companies I would love to hear it.

    Name calling is for little boys.

    Good lad Brian.

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    Mute TheIrishBrain
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    Jul 11th 2013, 10:07 AM

    It is not name calling its an observational comment, Unlike your back Kenny and Co at all cost reductions contribution.

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    Mute Niall Ó Dochartaigh
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    Jul 11th 2013, 10:49 AM

    Kenny has his major faults however this initiative is a great one. To think it is stupid is stupid, are you stupid?

    Actually you sentence does not make sense. It’s grammatically poor.

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    Mute TheIrishBrain
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    Jul 11th 2013, 12:26 PM

    You are correct the word “reductions” should have been “ridiculous”

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    Mute Niall Ó Dochartaigh
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    Jul 11th 2013, 5:24 PM

    No counter suggestion then Brian or are you just a negative person who points out faults and doesn’t contribute?

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    Mute M Bowe
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    Jul 11th 2013, 9:59 AM

    The majority of SME’s are begging for cash flow. Free up cash to assist in this. And not thro the corrupt banking system. Companies like pay pal, visa etc take up to 6 months to forward payments to suppliers from
    On line sales. Where is the working capital for even 60 days coming from. No bank over drafts or credit facilities for established SME. What chance a new start venture have???

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    Mute ClubHotelBars.ie
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    Jul 11th 2013, 9:07 AM

    Support for SME’s. Started a new business, promised before I came off the live register of a grant from my local development office. Went for grant to be told in April I may add that there was no funds left for that grant for the rest of the year. Disgraceful !!

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    Mute David S. Armstrong
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    Jul 11th 2013, 8:47 AM

    As initiatives go, it’s a step in the right direction, but there is a caveat – and this is not a complaint, but a genuine concern, which I hope will be yielded by even one SME business owner.

    I hope there is some vetting involved in sourcing the website designers and developers, before a lump sum is paid out. My fear is that a growing number of template-merchants and hack ‘designers’ will be running (if not sprinting) to cash in on this.

    So – please vet any third party based on portfolio, testimonials, ask for ‘links’ to previous work (and how these sites are doing on Google), and an outline of their working process, discuss website warranty etc

    A hint; if you receive offers of simply ‘x pages for x€’, this is selling on a template as a commodity, and ‘not’ an invested designer interested in finding a ‘solution’ for your business.

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    Mute Chris
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    Jul 11th 2013, 8:44 AM

    Muppet

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    Mute Williams Andres
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    Nov 15th 2014, 4:18 AM

    End your financial worries today:

    I am from Russia I can smile with this God Fearing man I received a loan of $45,000.USD last two weeks also two of my colleagues have also received loans from this man without any difficulty. I advise you not to choose the wrong person if you actually apply for a cash loan for your project and any other. I publish this message because Mr.Andres Williams made me feel blessed with his loan. It is through a friend I met this honest and generous God fearing man who helped me get this loan fund to regulate your life, You needed financial help, You are stuck, No access to bank credit, or do not have the benefit of a bank, you need to finance your construction, real estate development, creating your own business up your personal business, you have seen and need to make money, a bad credit or need money to pay bills or debts. So I advise you out there to kindly contact and meet you for the services you ask of him. His contact address: andresloanfirm07@live.com
    Contact him for more information, be clear and honest.

    His Email: andresloanfirm07@live.com

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