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Sinn Féin motion calls for conscience vote to be allowed on abortion

Sinn Féin’s Pearse Doherty said he believes the motion will be defeated at this weekend’s Ard Fheis in Belfast.

A SINN FÉIN motion calling for members to be allowed vote on the issue of abortion according to their conscience is due to be voted on this weekend.

Kicking off on Saturday, the party is holding a special Ard Fheis in Belfast, where two of the key motions relate to the party’s position in relation to the upcoming legislation which will give effect to the recent referendum result on the Eighth Amendment.

The first motion calls on the party to recognise the referendum result and to legislate in line with the views of the Ard Comhairle, which will be informed by the “best medical advice when legislating regarding the limited gestational period”.

This motion relates to the 12 weeks time limit which is proposed in the draft legislation put forward by Health Minister Simon Harris.

The second motion asks that members be allowed “articulate and vote” in accordance with their conscience.

On the conscience vote, Sinn Féin’s Pearse Doherty said the issue has come before the Ard Fheis on four previous occasions and it has been defeated each time.

At last year’s Ard Fheis in November, members did vote down the option for elected representatives to be allowed to vote on the issue of abortion according to their conscience or personal opinion.

Vote of conscience

Speaking to reporters today, Doherty said he believes the motion on a vote of conscience will be defeated again.

However, he said whether the motion is passed or defeated is an issue for the party membership this weekend. The decision of party members will stand under Sinn Féin rules.

He said that while many people have different views on the issue and there are “strong personal held views” within Sinn Féin, there cannot be dissent on the issue, in his view.

“When it comes down to legislating and voting… members need to fulfill the will of the membership of the party,” he said.

If the motion is defeated again, it will increase pressure on TDs such as Peadar Tóibín and Carol Nolan who both campaigned for a No vote ahead of the referendum.

Nolan’s position against holding a referendum resulted in her party membership being suspended for three months. Tóibín told TheJournal.ie prior to the referendum result that he accepted that he might lose his job over his stance on abortion.

Doherty said Sinn Féin rules are very clear when they state that any member that votes against party policy will face “disciplinary procedures”.

Disciplinary measures

When pressed on what exactly the disciplinary measures are, he said that in the past members have been suspended from the party for a certain time period.

He would not indicate what time period might be slapped on a member who votes against the upcoming abortion legislation, stating: “we haven’t crossed that bridge.”

Doherty’s comments today hint that party members might escape expulsion from the party over their position on the abortion legislation, but could face a substantial suspension period.

“The outcome is very clear. There are no surprises here, anyone that breaches the party rules as has happened in the past, where Carol Nolan has voted against the legislation where Peadar has voted in the past, there has been a suspension in their membership,” he said.

The time period in which the TDs could be suspended will “be a matter for the party president and chairperson”, said Doherty.

“Obviously every case would be different depending on the circumstances,” he added.

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    Mute Frank Emerson
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 8:21 AM

    Haven’t been this shocked since it got dark last night.

    424
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    Mute Darren Mc Mahon
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 9:38 AM

    @Frank Emerson: pretty sure it was you and not them that lost sleep. They are laughing all the way to the bank. But to be fair they never pretend to be customer friendly.

    57
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    Mute The Divils Avocado
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 12:52 PM

    They also probably had way more refunds to process

    15
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    Mute sean o'dhubhghaill
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 8:44 AM

    Strange. I had a holiday booked for Easter 2020. Cancelled 2 Ryanair flights, opting for vouchers. Realised later in 2020 that Easter 2021 wouldn’t be likely either. Contacted Ryanair again. Had my full refund a few weeks later. No problems. No hassle. Well Done Ryanair!

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    Mute Kev
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 9:08 AM

    @sean o’dhubhghaill: I had a similar experience with Ryanair, requested the refund and it arrived within 2 weeks. Aer Lingus on the other hand took about 4 months for a voucher refund.

    110
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    Mute Peter Walsh
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 9:10 AM

    @sean o’dhubhghaill: And do Ryanair have decent pension plans lads or what’s the story?

    56
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    Mute Bri Lyons
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 9:33 AM

    @Peter Walsh: if you were smart you would find that out before going to work for them…and if you don’t like the pension conditions or lack thereof then go work elsewhere.

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    Mute Peter Walsh
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 9:36 AM

    @Bri Lyons: Wow. Sense of humour by-pass there Bri.

    52
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    Mute Megan Elizabeth FW
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 9:44 AM

    @sean o’dhubhghaill: I got a refund for a cancelled flight within a week. Believe me, we’re in the minority

    30
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    Mute Mark
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 11:10 AM

    @sean o’dhubhghaill: yep a similar story for me. I opted for the voucher that I still couldn’t use due to ongoing pandemic 12 months later. So I requested a refund and received it within a couple of days.

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    Mute Frank Emerson
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 11:55 AM

    @Mark: so they had your money for 12 months.

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    Mute Ger Murphy
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 12:13 PM

    @sean o’dhubhghaill: Got to agree. I was pleasantly surprised to get refunds at all & equally how efficient the process was.

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    Mute Shane McGrath
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 8:23 AM

    Brutal airline.

    129
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    Mute pat seery
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 8:34 AM

    Give Me An Airline that is cheaper to Fly to the UK than A bus trip say 100 Klms from Dublin Received REFUND LAST WEEK FOR a Flight booking March 20 Without Applying for Well Done Ryanair They Are Probably working through Millions of Refuns

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    Mute Justin O'Toole
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 8:37 AM

    @pat seery: nonsense, just booked a flight with Aer Lingus in March and it was far cheaper. Also im pretty sure all airlines are in the same boat.

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    Mute Paul Hedderman
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 9:38 AM

    @Justin O’Toole: Thanks to Ryanair Aerlingus has had copy their business model and offer cheap no frills fares. Otherwise Aerlingus fares would be way more expensive. Similar with many european legacy airlines.

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    Mute JustMeHere
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 10:45 AM

    @pat seery: why would they be working through millions on refunds? Their pandemic flight cancellations happened in 2020. Their refunds are done. They are abysmal to deal with.

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    Mute Justin O'Toole
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 2:44 PM

    @Paul Hedderman: Paul, but if you think FR came up with this model. I think you are misinformed.

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    Mute Anne
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 8:40 AM

    Ryanair so much cheaper. Had a few flights booked. Got every cent returned.

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    Mute Thinkaboutit
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 8:42 AM

    @Anne: Michael O Leary you’re fooling no one under that ‘Anne’ account

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    Mute Joe Kennedy
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 9:47 AM

    @Thinkaboutit: the horse profile pic is a dead give away!!

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    Mute Greg Ward
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 8:17 AM

    Ya. It’s Ryanair.

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    Mute Rmaybe
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 8:23 AM

    It’s a no frills airline. Customer service is obviously a frill. I’ve always found the webchat to be the fastest and most responsive way.

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    Mute Terence Martin
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 9:19 AM

    Like everyone, I’m not too surprised. I cancelled a flight during first lockdown and jumped through all the hoops for a refund. Went out of my head and low and behold they emailed last week to confirm the refund had been processed! Nearly 2 years later. Better late than never I suppose. Between themselves and Eir it’s close as to who has worse customer service.

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    Mute Helen Rafferty
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 8:23 AM

    TAP is right up there still waiting for a refund for cancelled flights 14 months later.

    29
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    Mute Y
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 8:31 AM

    @Helen Rafferty: if you paid via credit card you could go down that route, I did that with Ryanair, I was refunded in less than 5 weeks because RA never replied to my credit card company.

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    Mute Edward Reid
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 3:30 PM

    @Y: or if you paid via PayPal.

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    Mute Mark Dervan
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 9:53 AM

    I had flights booked with Ryanair before the pandemic for September 2020 but naturally didn’t travel due to the restrictions. Wouldnt let me cancel. Tried to amend the flight for free but would only let me change to the end of 2020. Tried to transfer flights to a random date in 2021 even though would still not be guaranteed of travelling but were charging me the cost of a extra flight to do so. No reply from ‘customer service’. Said because my original flight was not cancelled and still left I couldn’t get a refund. Diabolical service but not surprised. Will endeavour to never use them again

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    Mute Mary Ryan
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 9:12 AM

    I had no problem with Ryanair getting refunds when I had to cancel flights during the pandemic. Now a couple of weeks ago I had a nightmare with flights coming home with ryanair. Absolutely dreadful staff which is not the norm. But I applied for compensation and it was sorted in no time.

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    Mute Pádraig Ó h-Éanacháin
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 9:46 AM

    No surprise there. Coming Michael O Leary mantra 90% of the time the customer is always wrong. They never were great on customer service.

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    Mute Maria Monaghan
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 10:59 AM

    Got mine no problem.

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    Mute John McCann
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 10:23 AM

    Hardly news, would only use them when there is no other carrier to my destination.

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    Mute Peter
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 9:43 AM

    Had no issues getting refunds with both Ryanair and Aer Lingus.

    If you didn’t book directly with the airline, then you need to get your refund from the company you’ve paid. I’m sure those companies got their refunds and haven’t passed them on.

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    Mute John Feeney
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 10:41 AM

    I chose to take the voucher instead, which came pretty much straight away to be fair to them! Which I’ve also since used!

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    Mute Des O'Leary
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 10:03 AM

    Rubbish; had no problem getting refunds from Ryanair. KLM was the best; got a voucher within a week. Aer Lingus took 3 months!!!

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    Mute Jonathan
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 9:10 AM

    Shocker

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    Mute Rob Hunt
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 12:30 PM

    Only a month? Aer Lingus kept €700 of ours for nearly 9.

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    Mute John Feeney
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 12:45 PM

    @Rob Hunt: same! I found them a nightmare to deal with / get hold of!

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    Mute Byron Deithrick
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    Feb 4th 2022, 12:28 AM

    There’s covid ?

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    Mute Mike Hogan
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    Feb 3rd 2022, 10:37 PM

    Horrible air line.

    1
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