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A MAN HAS been jailed for his part in a bank machine scam that involved distracting elderly victims before taking their cash.
Costel Tudor (44), a Romanian national, enlisted the help of two females who distracted ATM users after they had entered their PIN and were waiting on the cash.
One woman would then tap the person on the shoulder and indicate that they had dropped €20.
While the person’s attention was drawn to the cash on the ground, the second female, who had observed the victim’s PIN, would then switch the person’s bank card with another.
The victim’s bank card would then be passed back to Tudor who would almost immediately use it to withdraw cash.
Tudor, who is from Bucharest, Romania was sent forward to Dublin Circuit Criminal Court on signed pleas of guilty from the District Court. There were two charges of stealing ATM cards and two charges of stealing cash from Bank of Ireland in Stillorgan Shopping Centre on 27 April, 2015 and Permanent TSB on Main Street, Dundrum on 7 November, 2015.
Garda Stephen Dunican told Dara Hayes BL prosecuting, that Tudor is currently serving a sentence for the exact same offences carried out in October 2015 and May 2017 and is due for release next April. He also has convictions for fraud and theft from the Netherlands, Finland, England and Germany.
Instrumental
Judge Melanie Greally said the two women were “instrumental in distracting the victims” before she noted that Tudor was identified through CCTV footage located close to the ATMs.
She said his extensive record of convictions was an aggravating factor before she sentenced Tudor to two and half years in prison.
Judge Greally suspended the final 18 months on Tudor’s undertaking that he would leave Ireland within seven days of his release from prison and not return here for 10 years.
Garda Dunican said one victim was aged 65 while the other was in his eighties. One man had €240 taken from his account and the other had €500 taken from his. The banks reimbursed both victims.
Both men immediately cancelled their cards when they noticed that it had been switched but the cash had already been withdrawn.
Tudor was identified through CCTV footage and arrested but nothing came out of his subsequent interview with gardaí.
Justin McQaude BL, defending said Tudor had been in custody since June last year and had not seen his seven year old daughter since then.
Counsel said his client was “far from home and isolated”. He submitted that his pleas of guilty would have been a relief to the injured parties.
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Doesn’t go far enough for unmarried fathers – not by a long shot. Automatic rights should be granted to all unmarried fathers – anything less is utter discrimination.
100% agree,there’s outcry for same sex marriage and rights but a father has zero rights ,equal rights is the absolute minimum fathers should have as a basic human right
“Finally, the Bill also intends to increase the number of non-marital fathers who are automatically guardians of their children by providing that a non-marital father is a guardian of his child if he cohabits with the child’s mother for at least a year before the child’s birth and the cohabitations ends (if applicable) less than 10 months before the child’s birth.”
This is by far the most important part of that article, considering there are near 200,000 unmarried fathers in Ireland – dwarfing all other categories in the article. I think you should have had this bit at the top of the article Sinead, not the bottom.
I agree! I never knew about this before our daughter was born. I was shocked to realise that my partner had to fill out paperwork to apply for legal guardianship of his own child! Why should a father need an application form for something which should be a basic right?
I haven’t seen my daughter since july because her mother has a new boyfriend who does not like me. I said ill go to court to get access and she’s said if I do that she will say I abused my daughter. it breaks my heart not seeing her but her mother does not care…
It’s barbaric. No rights whatsoever. Not only that, but you too had to sign the form to consent to him having basic rights – guardianship. Yo could have refused if you wished, and he would have had to go to court and stand before a judge and fight for those basic rights – and in 30% of cases guardianship is refused by the judge.
above comment to imogene.
Well, Jonny – fight it. Record her saying she’ll falsely accuse you, go to the cops and report her. Make the first move.
Jonny. The best Way to deal with blackmail is face it. I would hunt her down legally if she threatened that. I feel so sorry for you. I had a similar situation although to be fair my kids mother never went as low as that but she prevented me seeing my 4 kids. Big mistake for her. She has had a lot of sleepless nights since & I forced her to a negotiation. I live in a different country now but when I’m home I have no problems seeing them & I talk to them on the phone every other day. The best way to deal with a bully is bully them back even a woman.
Along… With insuring that unmarried fathers have rights… I believe that fathers who are unwilling to pay the matienance of the child are forced to do so.
Currently our system permits lads to walk away from a birth of a child without consequences. Which then the state (tax payer) takes on the burden.
I know plenty of separated unmarried fathers, and a few mothers. that pay maintenance – it’s court ordered.
There is a legal responsibility in Ireland on parents, whether married or unmarried, to maintain dependent children. Maintenance can be paid periodically (i.e., weekly or monthly) or in a lump sum.
It is a crazy situation. We found out that my partner had no rights over our daughter when we both ended up in tsllaght hospital after a car crash. I had to leave adult A&E to go to children’s A&E as my partner and father of the child couldn’t consent to treatment. We got on to out solicitor who said we had to fill out a form that we can keep a copy of and he can keep with our will. But that was it, it still had no legal standing and if anything happened to me it wouldnt have guaranteed my partners rights to custody of his own child. Absolutely disgraceful.
And with the scrapping of the single parent tax credit for one parent it’s mostly fathers who will loose out. I will. Loose mine and even now I can barely pay my bills. I happily contribute 50% of everything for my daughter but this will cripple me. Single and separated fathers are second class citizens in Ireland. It’s a disgrace. Shame on this government but mostly on labour for standing there while the very people who voted for them are destroyed. Never ever again will I vote labour. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
I think unmarried fathers need to become more militant. It wouldn’t take much to stage unannounced sit ins in every TD office in the country – with kids of course.
Agreed, if anything from the point of view of fathers this would appear to be a step back rather than a step forward.
Time to start writing to TDs to see if some changes can be made to make the law more equal.
Luke, great idea. Let me know what date and my child and I will be there! I’m one of the lucky ones. My child’s mother had no issue granting me guardianship but why was it her decision to make?? I have friends in terrible situations where mothers are simply black mailing them in exchange for guardianship of their OWN child! What about a one night stand situation? If the father wants to be involved what right has anyone to tell him he can’t and how the hell can he live with her for a year prior to birth? Last time I checked the full term of a pregnancy is 9 months!!
It truly is disgraceful to think that a father can’t consent to treatment in an A&E. I don’t understand the mentality that would think that fathers are less responsible or have less rights than the mother.
As for women who refuse to let a father see his kids, don’t even get me started. With decisions like that a mother is hurting her own children. The scars left by these situations are permanent. It sickens me that women (who are supposed to be loving, nurturing, and caring, fighting to protect their babies at all costs), are the ones to inflict this pain on their own kids.
Non marital fathers and mothers are guardians- check the birth cert. The moment the child is reg istered, it is bonded to the state as owner and mother, father or both as guardians.
The Institution of marriage was created to keep the mothers and children under control for the patriarchal state. Nothing has really changed. No mother was ever entitled to custody of her own creation/child. She is labelled a breeder for the patriarchal system in ancient texts.
Catherine that was the case for me. Yes I was listed as the father on the birth cert but her mother had 100% guardianship rights until we went to a solicitor where she signed a legal document giving me equal shared guardianship.
Best to know the inside system before speaking. Are you aware that male abusers are more likely to obtain full custody nowadays. ? My own solicitor explained how serious this issue has become with fathers wanting their rights and using the system to apply for custody in order to get the house and extra benefits.Not really caring about the child at all.
Protective mothers are demonised for reporting violence and abuse and loose their children to the male abusers.
Research and find out, rather than go with media propaganda.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/08/05/read-excerpt-from-phyllis-cheslers-book-mothers-on-trial/
“Myths about custody still abound. Most people still believe that the courts favor mothers over fathers—who are discriminated against because they are men—and that this is how it’s always been.
This is not true.
For more than five thousand years, men—fathers—were legally *entitled* to sole custody of their children. Women—mothers—were *obliged* to bear, rear, and economically support their children. No mother was ever legally entitled to custody of her own child.”
“It truly is disgraceful to think that a father can’t consent to treatment in an A&E. I don’t understand the mentality that would think that fathers are less responsible or have less rights than the mother.”
The issue seems to be that the laws were written in a time when almost all children were born to (or adopted by) married couples. They haven’t been updated to reflect the changed circumstances where couples have kids first rather than getting married.
“100% agree,there’s outcry for same sex marriage and rights but a father has zero rights ,equal rights is the absolute minimum fathers should have as a basic human right”
And that is because gay rights activists kept campaigning on the issue. Year in year out with marches and opinion pieces in the newspapers. Organisation is needed to keep the momentum in a campaign. Hopefully the new group detailed here last week will help.
@ Catherine: The issue being discussed here is the lack of rights given to fathers in general. We are not talking about abusers etc.
I am not entirely sure where you get your facts from, but there has been enough evidence listed on this thread so far that would prove that fathers have less rights to their children than mothers do.
I recently applied for a passport for our 18 month old (before signing legal guardianship papers) and I didn’t even need her dad’s consent to either apply for the passport, or to take her out of the country.
How is that fair to dads?
Jonny…
Don’t feel threatened by remarks like that. You have a right to see your daughter.
Explain to your partner that if she raises a false allegation of sexual abuse that this will without a doubt haunt her in later life. As soon as your daughter is old enough she will confront her mother. And when the truth comes out your daughter will despise her mother.
I have been there. It is a horrific accusation for any father.
Don’t be blackmailed by this lowlife.
Yup, Fox news, the fountain of all honest reporting …
Catherine you are completely wrong – again. Unmarried fathers are not guardians. Unmarried fathers have no automatic rights, none. You really should stop spouting drivel about these boards.
Contrary to popular belief, the presence of a fathers name on a birth certificate does not bestow any rights on an unmarried father – it simply confirms paternity.
You do nothing but confuse issues on these boards – and it’s highly irresponsible – when dealing with family and law issues. Cop yourself on.
Beat me to it Dusty :) Totally off subject Catherine.
I agree, Also it’s the child’s right to have parents with equal rights. If that makes sense……..
No they are not. My partner was named on the birth cert and it didn’t make any difference. As we were not married he could not consent to medical treatment for our daughter. If I were to die, the guardianship form that I later signed would be nothing more than a document that declared my intention was for my partner to be his own daughters legal guardian but that wouldn’t stop a custody battle between my family and my partner over my daughter.
I have no difficulty on that front either nialls – in fact I’m a stay at home father primarily – I work nights.
Nonetheless, it’s a scandal, and I’ve had enough.
The laws are actually Victorian Ryan. If memory serves me right it stems from an 1861 or 1863 act. I was lot better briefed on it years ago, but I’d get so angry about it I had to stay away from the issue for a few years.
I know of a couple who’s child’s appendix ruptured while mommy was away on her hen weekend.
Daddy brought the daughter to the hospital and could not give consent for the appendectomy, they couldn’t get hold of the mum on her phone so the hospital had to have the child made a ward of the state in order to obtain consent – and all because mum and dad weren’t married (yet).
Fathers have zero rights, until the mother or a judge / marriage grants them otherwise. It’s high time this changed, it might not be easy but it is definitely worth it. For the sake of the kids – they deserve more than to be used as pawns in relationship breakdown.
@Shanti I’m not sure to what extent a mother can grant the father rights unless it is decreed by a Judge. What can they do but sign a guardianship form and that isn’t a legal document, if it is challenged, it is still at the mercy of a judges decision. We had names on birth cert and guardianship forms signed, but our solicitor said it didn’t make any difference. If something happened and there was a custody battle and it ended up between and unmarried single father whose job requires time being spent out of the Country and a loving young enough married set of grandparents, whose to know what may happen.
You do know the lack of fathers rights or gay couples rights is due to automatic full custody rights for women who are mothers. The double-speak feminists are out today talking about , oh wouldn’t it be good for the children’s sake etc, but in reality what has to occur is that automatic full custody rights will need to be removed from every mother in the state(for equality purposes), then another form of parental and custody rights equally available to both biological parents regardless of gender will have to apply.
Only then can it be said to be equal.
However this will impact maintenance proceedings if a father can have guardianship or custody as a right and have it enforced by law then it’s bye-bye to maintenance for the days that the child resides with the currently non-custodial parent(which currently is usually the father).
No more bitter goldiggers using their kids as leverage and no more “deadbeat by default” dads.
This could be a good thing.
Why should you get an extra credit for your kids. Those who are married and stay married don’t get one. That being said ALL parents should get one. It was dropped 26 years ago when my wife was expecting our first. Not that £50 a year would have helped
Carina thank you for pointing out how badly I put that, perhaps it would have made more sense to explain that without the mothers consent the father gets sweet f.a. which is certainly not always in the best interests of the child.
@Carina , have a look at http://www.treoir.ie/target-fathers.php
The following is from the above link and is what faces fathers when they go to engage with family law, Note the “If the mother of your child agrees…” and the recurring word “None” in relation to any rights towards their children.
—————————————————————————————————————————————
What are my legal rights in respect of my child?
None. Unmarried fathers do not have any automatic legal rights in respect of their children.
What are my legal rights in respect of my child if my name is on the birth cert?
None. In Ireland having your name on the birth certificate does not in itself give you any legal rights in respect of your child. You are, however, presumed to be the child’s father when your name is on the birth cert.
How can I get legal rights in respect of my child?
1. If the mother of your child agrees, you can get guardianship rights of your child by both parents signing a statutory declaration for joint guardianship (S.I. No 5 of 1998) in the presence of a peace commissioner, commissioner for oaths or notary public.
This form contains declarations that
the parents have not married each other
the parents are the parents of the child
they agree to the appointment of the father as a guaradian and
they have entered into arrangements regarding the custody of (and access to) the child. These arrangements do not need to be specified or written down. However, it is advisable to do so.
A copy of S.I. No 5 of 1998 is available from the National Information Service of Treoir. It can also be downloaded here.
When this form is signed and witnessed you need to keep it in a safe place as it is the only evidence that the father is a guardian. There is no central register for Statutory Declaration Forms.
A father’s guardianship rights can only be removed by the court.
Parents can make informal arrangements regarding access, custody and maintenance but if these arrangements break down they cannot be legally enforced. However, any written agreement between parents can be made a rule of court.
2. If your child’s mother does not agree to you getting rights you can apply for them through the courts:
You can apply to the court for joint guardianship, access and joint/full custody. The court can also order you to pay maintenance in respect of your child. Court orders for access, custody, maintenance and/or guardianship can only be changed through the court.
See Treoir’s information leaflets on Access and Custody of Children, Guardianship and Maintenance.
————————————————————————————————————————————–
Yes, I have memories of us being annoyed that there was no central register and because of that we weren’t convinced how iron clad the guardianship would be if a custody dispute arose.
you don’t need to go to see a solicitor if the mother agrees to sign the form, at that point you need to go see a peace commissioner – a highly humiliating experience to have to go to a total strangers home to have it witnessed.
I’m seriously thinking about writing an article in the journal about the whole mess.
It’s also about time Shanti, we began to use the term “in the interest of the father” too.
I would encourage you to do so Luke.
If they’re going to shake up legislation then they should do it right and unless the fathers are heard – they have no hope of being treated fairly.
An article about how difficult it can be for a father who wants to be involved but is being locked out may open enough eyes for people to force TDs to act on this aspect too.
@jonny I agree with Luke go to the cops and explain to them what she said and the community Guard will even go to her with you. One thing I have got to say is the police will mostly be helpful in the very very little way they can. I have been through 12 years of it
Mhic Mathuna v Ireland (1989) – this was challenged in the Supreme Court with the plaintiff alleging that it was an attack against the married family.
Supreme Court rejected this stating that the situation and circumstances of separated parents were sufficiently different as to warrant the tax credit.
Also, and more importantly, it was a child centered payment and so, not discriminatory.
Our country operates a system of tax individualisation – this means that differing credits exist for different situations. Are you asking “why should disabled people get extra tax credits?”
No, of course you’re not – you have just fallen into the Governments view of failing to recognise that separated parents face a different set of issues.
Why don’t married people start paying double their utility bills, mortgage and rent, property tax etc – then you can get the credit too. Oh wait, the Credit wouldn’t actually cover all that extra outgoing, but it does help and is an acknowledgement – yet you want to take it away simply because you don’t get it?
How very selfish of you.
if you let it go a year and then file for custody – does it not reflect badly on her for not reporting the abuse. To only report it when someone seeks to gain custody would surely be seen as convenient unless she could say you are paying child support. Seek legal advice. At least have evidence so your child will know – you tried but her mother played nasty.
It’s access, moresp than custody he’ll be fighting for, allotted court ordered hours every week. The ‘Mcdonald’s’ dad type scenario. It’s better than what he currently has, but he should certainly go to the cops and get them to document it, before going near a family courtroom.
I know of cases where the grandparents did win custody over the unmarried father. In one recent case the unmarried father’s wife was jailed for 2 years for burglary and fraud offences {gambling addict} and he couldn’t quit his job as he had a mortgage so he left the 2 kids with the maternal grandparents almost full time during the week, they offered, and they filed for custody after a year and won.
He has since had the children returned, but not before many battles and eventually, the reason he got them back was because the maternal grandmother died and the grandfather suffered from serious depression as a result.
About time!
The devil is in the detail ignore the press release and lets see the bill
Where’s Paddy and Iona brigade? They usually have something worthwhile to say.
It’s really good that same sex couples will get full adoption rights, hopefully fathers can get full rights aswell !
All well and good, but I am certain there are many gentlemen who would not be at all impressed at actually having to take responsibility for their progeny. I personally know a fine gent who is a father of five, all of whom have different mothers. One particular woman appears to be flavour of the month and brings the child to see him and I presume he contributes to that child’s upkeep. I can bet my bottom dollar, however, that he is not paying maintenance to all of the five women.
Correct me if I am wrong – from reading the above, say an 11yo child living with their mother and her boyfriend of two years and the mother passes away, then the boyfriend has a stronger case to guardianship than the child’s biological father?
I do believe unmarried fathers should have the same access rights to their children as the mother however they should only do so if they are willing to contribute both financially and take on some responsibility for their child’s upbringing instead of when it suits them. The courts try and enforce it but there are many fathers not doing the right thing. The kids are losing out and the mother picks up the pieces. I don’t think women should use their kids as a bargaining tool either, gives women a bad name.
all child benefit and single mothers allowance should be stopped and replaced with Dunnes tesco bord gais and ESB stamps,all fathers names should be forced onto birth certs by law so they contribute financially and any woman who decides because she left school early has no education or work skills should not be rewarded for having numerous children and sometimes for numerous men
First job they should do is bring in a child license so that all the people unfit to be a parent can’t have kids. Being a parent is privilege and not a right as some people treat it.
Ps when I say unfit, I mean people that don’t care for there kids not because of sexual orientation, race etc etc.
How would it be enforced though? Some sort of forced sterilization?
Maybe, should society allow a HIV infected, heroin addict to reproduce? Is that fair on the baby? Yes it an extreme example but I think that the rights of the child come first even though I’m pro choice.
@Ben – what hamsters are moving the levers in your head.
@ Dee, we have a difference in opinion. Please come up with an argument that actually provokes debate rather that witless insults.
@Ben ;-) fair enough, having a baby is a lot of things but it is not a privilege , its a meaningless term and only a fascist state would dictate who gets to reproduce.
I wouldn’t condone a system where the state can stop anyone having a child before they’ve proved themselves to be a good parent, but some people shouldn’t be allowed to be parents as their children would have a bad upbringing. As a society we wouldn’t let an alcoholic drive a car or own a gun. Why we should let them have a child?
In ancient texts wombmen are deemed mere breeders for the patriarchal state. Deciding who is to breed and who is not has been done before against Indigenous peoples, black people and other non desirables under Hitler regime. Is this the route Ben wants to go down? Playing God?
How would you know you were going to be a good parent until you become one? Parenting some strangers child is not the same.
Never have I said that a certain ethnic group shouldn’t be allowed to breed nor will I, I have argued the point that certain people shouldn’t be allowed to have children, to me it’s a no brainier. As for playing god, I don’t believe in god…….I do believe in a rational and responsible society that makes decisions based on fact and reason.
Absolute rubbish Catherine. I know of many men who have adopted a father role with children who were not their own biologically speaking. Some of them are amongst the best fathers I have known.
fathering is more than genetics – it’s about how you are raised, how you are loved and the morals imparted to you.
Am I to take it that you are of the opinion that adopted children have a worse relationship than those raised by biological parents?
You are more than a sum of your chromosomes Catherine.
Exactly – parenting isn’t about genetics it’s about mindset.
Either you will have the compassion, patience, consistency and ability to learn from your mistakes to be a parent, or you can keep making the same mistakes, give conflicting messages and lose the rag frequently – and possibly mess the kids up for life.
I know which parents I would prefer given the choice.
Any male can be a father it takes a real man to be a dad!
@ Ben I don’t think I have ever agreed with anyone so strongly !! I’m getting so angry reading this !! As the law stands I have zero rights over my daughter when she is born in march !! But any two addicts , addicted to god knows what . Who are married in the eyes of a farcical government or a brain washing religious order , can have a child and claim 100s in benefits and the father has full guardianship over him/her !!! Even tho he sees him/her as a pay check !!!
Any female can be a mother, it takes a real woman to be a committed Mam to her children.
Sick to the teeth of this mindless slogan crap….
It is rather shocking the way fathers get treated (and not just here sadly). There seems to be this assumption that the kid is better off with mum – but is that true?
Personally I know of a few kids that would be better off living with their fathers as their fathers are more stable, but the mothers are the ones who seem to automatically get guardianship..
And unless the father adopts their own kid – they essentially have no legal rights as a parent whatsoever..
This is obviously related to outdated ideals of women in the home and men as breadwinners – but the world doesn’t work that way, it’s time the law caught up. For the sake of the kids – they should be living with whichever parent is a better parent – that should be all there is to it.
Delighted that the same sex couples will be granted rights to adopt (kinda blows more holes in the argument against marriage equality too).
How would you describe the better parent? Falling for the old patriarchal male v female,mother v father duality mentality again.
A mother’s role is different to a father’s role. Mothers give birth and breast feed while fathers cannot do so. Fathers role is to protect the mother of his children and the children in every way possible.
Mothers are now expected to be mothers and fathers to children and this is called equality.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/08/05/read-excerpt-from-phyllis-cheslers-book-mothers-on-trial/
“Myths about custody still abound. Most people still believe that the courts favor mothers over fathers—who are discriminated against because they are men—and that this is how it’s always been.
This is not true.
For more than five thousand years, men—fathers—were legally *entitled* to sole custody of their children. Women—mothers—were *obliged* to bear, rear, and economically support their children. No mother was ever legally entitled to custody of her own child.”
“The ideal of fatherhood is sacred. As such, it protects each father from the consequences of his actions.
The ideal of motherhood is sacred, too.
It exposes all mothers as imperfect.
No human mother can embody the maternal ideal perfectly enough.”
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/08/05/read-excerpt-from-phyllis-cheslers-book-mothers-on-trial/
Catherine, would you get your head out of the bronze age for a minute. What percentage of splits end up with the father having custody in the 21st century? Yes the bronze age was rough, but with counseling most women alive today may manage to put it behind them.
You’re complaining about someone falling for the duality line and then giving the same duality line a different slant -”caring mothers” vs “abusive males” only looking out for their financial self-interest. Misanthropic much?
Catherine.
I would describe the better parent as the one who is better equipped to do the job. That can be the father or the mother – but it should be decided on merit rather than an assumption that either sex is innately better suited to the job.
I know some great parents and I know some lousy ones. I know a few single mothers that I wouldn’t leave my nieces and nephews alone with and I worry for their kids – yet the fathers are kept away, for reasons based upon pure spite.
The kids are the most important factor in this equation and the decision should be made with them being the sole focus. In custody battles to be honest I couldn’t give two hoots what the parents have to say – it’s what they do for the kid that counts.
More tokenism from a Government masquerading the the saviour of Civil rights. Labour introduced a Guardianship of Children Bill in 2010 which was dropped for some reason. Now they’re back with this.
Yes, the area is in need of serious overhaul and yes, it’s difficult to ensure fathers rights without including those who father through rape and incest. But there is no point doing this unless you address the Constitutional articles preferencing the family based on marriage and the special position of the mother.
Furthermore, to have the absolute gall to introduce this bill whilst scrapping fiscal support for separated fathers is a cynical joke and sinks to high heaven. Don’t forget that last year, the lone parents payment was attacked and this year again maternity benefit was reduced.
This Government are all for equality if it costs nothing and provided it can be introduced after they have sucked the marrow from the bones of families across the state.
Personally I’d like to roll up the draft Bill, the same sex marriage proposal, equality Legislation and beat every single Government td over the head with it until they admit that they couldn’t give a rats ass about anything other than the bottom line of the exchequer.
When they reverse their current decision to tell my son that, in their eyes, I don’t matter, then I’ll accept that they are trying to help, until then, they can go to hell in a hand cart.
Equality indeed.
The state does not care . Once the child is registered/bonded,the state is the owner and can choose anyone it likes as Guardian.
Catherine please stop spouting this BS over and over. You don’t know what you are talking about.
no government of any colour is going to bring in legislation giving fathers equal rights it would mean a change to the constitution,the only way things will change in ireland with anything is through an EU directive forcing the government,Ireland remains caught up in a catholic petriachal system of women breeders men bread winners,Ireland is a failed state,medication is still six times more expensive in dundalk then in newry after 3 years of a troika bailout!!!
FFS,what about the legal status of single fathers. For god sake, now same sex partnerships will have more rights than us…..
Let’s campaign for EQUAL rights together so. Strength in numbers. I’ll get the signs, you bring the megaphone
I don’t know if this is true but a friend told me her husband had to adopt their daughter after they got married even though his name was on her birth cert.
Once they’re married he doesn’t have to. But before they got married if the father wants rights that’s really the only legally sound way to do it AFAIK.
This has “shaft” written all over it. Redefines family to suit a specific aim but does not have the balls to go as far as permitting SSM.
It still leaves the womans lawyer holding the aces.
On the plus side, I will be glad to be losing a son – but that’s a whole different story.
This needs to be introduced before the referendum on SSM. Otherwise the same sex marriage debate will turn into a debate about gay people raising children and not marriage.
It says in the piece that separate legislation will be introduced next year for same-sex couples adopting. By doing that, the Government removes one of the main arguments for those advocating against same-sex marriage.
The SC has defined “family” as being based on “marriage” – which it also defined as being “between a man and a woman”.
Either this proposal is a kite to test the waters in relation to the modern concept of family – which will be regarded by some as an attack on “family”; or this proposal ignores that if the SC has its definitions of family, it also has a definition of marriage that can be replaced by a statutory definition.
In other words I’m asking if it places the cart before the horse – If we are stuck with Supreme Court definitions then the proposal is an attack on family, if not, then they should legislate for same sex marriage and be done with it.
Either way – the resulting mess will ensure much more work for lawyers who will pick up fees for “sorting out” complications in interpersonal relationships.
Marriage is not defined in our constitution as being between a man and a woman
Exactly Ailbhe – it was defined by the Supreme Court – and as such could be redefined by statute.
Hi Paul,
It’s actually the constitution itself that defines the family as being based on marriage, the SC in interpreted that marriage must be between a man and a woman.
Sorry for being pedantic but this whole area turns on pedantry.
Correct Dusty, on all three counts.
If Im reading this right what this bill dose is say if someone offers to surrogate thats ok but you can’t ask somone or pay for the service or offer it. So off to another country with you to get what you want there. and if your lucky we might in Ireland recognize the child as yours if you have a gentic link.
have your say