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A WAITING LIST guarantee policy is to be established next year so patients will know how long they can expect to wait for an operation.
Speaking at the launch of Sláintecare implementation strategy – which is the cross-party plan to overhaul the Irish health service over ten years – Health Minister Simon Harris admitted that people are waiting too long on waiting lists.
The plan sets out an ambitious target of waiting lists being no longer than 12 weeks.
An analysis of various health waiting lists, obtained by Fianna Fáil’s deputy leader Dara Calleary, shows there were nearly one million patient appointments outstanding in the first half of the year.
While the minister said there is no single solution to solve this problem, the plan is to develop a guarantee system for patients which will set out a time period or target, so people are not left in limbo with no indication as to when they might get an appointment.
Waiting list guarantee times
“If you are an Irish person waiting for a hip operation, a knee operation, or a cataract operation – how long should you have to wait? How can we guarantee that it will be delivered? We are going to look at underpinning that with legislation,” said Harris, adding:
The Sláintecare plan wants to get to a waiting list guarantee of 12 weeks, if you or I were sitting in Scotland a number of years ago and they said they were going to do that, I’m sure a lot of people in the media would understandably have said well that will never happen. But it did, they did it through a number of measures we’re going to take here, including trying to do more in the community.
It is understood the government is looking to introduce legislation to underpin the guarantee scheme to ensure there is accountability and consequences set out in law for those that fail to deliver on the wait time targets.
Explaining the thought process behind it, Harris said:
“If you are going to work tomorrow you don’t ask how many cars are on the M50 – you ask how long you are going to be on the M50 to get to work.”
No shows for hospital appointments not helping
Waiting lists is a priority, said Harris, who pointed out that nearly half a million outpatient appointments were missed last year. While he was keen to point out that is most likely not the fault of the patient, but the appointments system itself.
My own sense is that it’s due to the lack of proper data, actually tracking people. When people quote global waiting lists figures, that could be one patient on a list a number of times with a number of doctors… I believe that far too many patients are on waiting lists for too long, I believe we have a significant waiting list challenge and we need to accept it.
But I do believe there is a responsibility on the opposition … we cannot have a situation where somebody believes everybody in this country will wait 18 months for an operation. Far too many are, I’m determined to drive that down, but the majority of people are waiting less than nine months and a significant proportion are waiting less than three months.
In addition to tackling spiralling waiting lists, the long-term plan sets out key actions over a ten-year period.
Expanding access to more people
One of the key actions is reviewing the eligibility in which a person can access health services in Ireland.
Harris said it is about “making sure no one today decides not to access healthcare because they can’t afford it – that is not a system we can stand over. Sláintecare talks about low-cost or no cost and we need to grapple with what is a fair eligibility”.
This will include a review of the GP contract, as well as a review of the GP visit card income threshold, which determines if someone can get one, and if that can be expanded so more people can avail of it.
The minister has already stated previously that GP fees of €55 or €60 to see a doctor are too expensive.
Detangling private practice from public hospitals
The minister was also very clear that he wants to “detangle” the private sector from public hospitals.
“I am one person, I am the minister of health, but I have a clear view. It is not equitable of fair that you can access healthcare in our public hospitals on the basis of your ability to pay. That’s what I believe, but let’s be very clear, private health insurance in public hospitals generates significant income for the public health service.”
It is a view that many in the health service will “line up” to shoot down the idea, said the minister, but he added that he believes one way to increase capacity is freeing up beds in public hospitals that are being used by private patients.
“I don’t accept this is beyond us. I mean, why are we happy to be outliers on this – this is not normal. I sometimes think we have convinced ourselves in this country that this is the norm… It is not going to be straightforward or easy but it is certainly right that Sláintecare asks us tease it out, report on it and publish it.”
Compo for doctors?
The minister was also questioned about the cost of such a drastic move, particularly the cost and possible compensation that might be paid to doctors who have it contained in their contracts that they can use public hospitals for private practice.
Harris said the word compensation is the wrong word, stating that an expert group has been tasked with looking at the costings.
“Is it true to say that if we wanted to disentangle private practice from public hospitals it would require contract negotiations from consultants? Yes it would. Are we making those decisions today? No we are not. We have asked an expert group chair to do his work. He will report back this year, we will publish it and bring it to Government to inform our decision-making process.
“It will require new contracts but we should not and I will not allow us to be talked into a position whereby this is not doable. In other countries, this is the norm…. I believe the majority of clinicians want to be able to work in the health service where they have access to theatres, beds where they can do their job,” said Harris.
The minister said today is a significant day for the healthcare system in Ireland, however, criticisms were levelled at him that the implementation plan is not fully costed.
So, what is it all going to cost?
The minister said he agreed with UCC economist Brian Turner’s assessment that by the end of ten years there will be an increase in the health budget of roughly about €2.6 billion per year.
“I think that’s right, if you consider the fact that the health budget increased by 5% this year,” he said, adding however, that there will require significant contractual negotiations with many stakeholders in the health service and in some instances require significant procurement and tender.”
One thing the minister did say about costings is that there will be no additional taxes place on people to fund the new plan.
“There are no proposed tax increases, much of this will be covered by a growing economy to deliver the resources needed for a proper health service that we all want.”
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Waiting two years for an outfit patient surgery operation in Waterford. Only contact I have had in the last two years since they told me I was on the waiting list, is a letter asking if they still wanted me to be on the waiting list… absolute shambles of a health system.
@Thomas Brophy: I’m waiting 3 years for an appointment with Tallaght hospital. Same as you in that I got a letter about a year ago asking me to reply if I still wanted to be on the waiting list. I’m half expecting them to tell me that they never received the reply?
@Thomas Brophy: I am terrified for my son we have waited two years for some appointments and one year for other appointments this is under the disability pediatric services, no speech and language services and many other service he urgently needs. He was born with down syndrome and many other complications including open heart surgeries and will be sent into the adult services from July 2019.
@blackcoffee: My son is waiting over three years to see an ENT consultant in Tallaght hospital.. The past two years we’ve got the same letter and last week we got the same bloody letter.. They send them out in peak holiday season in the hope some people are away and they can remove them off the list..
@Charliegrl80: I have the same story in my house. Nothing, no services available for our children with special needs. No physiotherapy, no speech therapy, no occupational therapy.
And yet Simple Simon is able to promise healthcare to people in Northern Ireland. He is an absolute joke. Simple Simon Says indeed.
@Charliegrl80: I hear you. Same story in our house, no physiotherapy, no speech therapy, no occupational therapy. No paediatric psychiatric in the South East since the last one was forced to resign several months due to appalling conditions. My child is being left to rot by the state. And yet yesterday, Simple Simon is off in Northern Ireland promising to solve their healthcare problems #SimpleSimonSays
@Lucy Rodgers: if you’re going through AON process you should contact DCA Warriors they have a barrister working with them on the delays in children with special needs ,great support network too .
@Siobhán Ni Mhurchú: Thanks for the tip!
The public need ff and sf to represent them and remove this announcer of plans from office,the public are sick of announcements,plans,inquirys,but nothing happens,nothing changes.
@@mdmak33: Health is a poisoned chalice, nobody has ever achieved anything significant in the role, having said that it’s pointless making ridiculous promises that everyone knows are empty.
If a patient is in pain now, today, perhaps their GP is concerned about them, it’s pointless giving them a letter saying they’ll see a consultant in 18 months or 2 years, who’ll send them for tests and see them again in 9 or 10 months. By the time many are actually diagnosed they’ll be dead and buried. That’s the reality of shortening the waiting lists in 21st century Ireland.
More dilution of responsibility. What are junior ministers of health doing . No mind our Silver medal Hockey heroes , what about the Hero kids with Scoliosis waiting years to get operations. Heart breaking .
More untruths promised by the most untrustworthy government that the state has ever had!
Why does he sound like he has just got a new job…. He’s been in it for years!!!!!
Why is it patient’s can be seen in one or two weeks if they pay the same Doctor who can do it two or three year’s down the line for the same operation this needs to be addressed big time. If the Doctor can make time for paying patients why isn’t it checked who’s time are they using. Another big problem is people not turning up for appointments or not cancelling in advance. People who don’t turn up or not cancel in time should pay a minimum of €100 before they are seen the next time, if no payment made directly to the hospital they stay at the bottom of the list
@Mick12: I am admittedly someone who has a private appointment with a consultant that operates both publicly and privately. I’m uncomfortable about this, but i’ve already waited 4 months for this appointment on a private referral, and it’s still another 5 weeks out. if i went to someone fully private, i probably wouldn’t be seen til after christmas. my issue has affected my mental health considerably, and has even impacted my work to the point that i’ve had a breakdown in work over it. thing is, this is still just the initial consultation.. because i’m going to a public hospital, i’ll be on the same waiting list as public patients should i need surgery. this has me a tad scared, as i’ve no idea what’s wrong with me, other than i lost my sense of taste. (still have my sense of smell, i don’t smoke, don’t do drugs and barely drink – think three glasses of wine since christmas). this is the biggest medical issue i’ve had, and it’s a complete mystery.. can’t even find anything online about it, other than what it’s called.
From the first moment my mother set eyes on Harris she said that he was not to be trusted ‘Never trust a fast talker ‘ She’s long dead but she was so right!
@blackcoffee: she was – is right someone should time him he issues bull crap faster than any other minister that I have listened to down the year’s
@FlopFlipU: Eoin Murphy talks good and quick too. Gets a similar level of results too
Minister Harris announces new scheme. “I’ll guarantee you that you will have to wait years to see a doctor.”
Some want tax increases to give even more money to these incompetent beaurocrats…
Explaining the thought process behind it, Harris said:
“If you are going to work tomorrow you don’t ask how many cars are on the M50 – you ask how long you are going to be on the M50 to get to work.”
If this is the thought process at its finest then God help us,the M50 is the biggest car park ,liken it to the waiting lists and yes you have it,no movement.
How can he have straight face and promise people this can be done,previous ministers for health failed,so what makes him think this will work, he would be better saying nothing than creating hope where there is none,
How much is this list going to cost us
@Michael Mulcahy: This seems not so much an attempt to save money as more of an attempt at obfuscation and procrastination.
He describes people wanting to know how long they’re going to be waiting for a hip or knee operation, but that’s not what they’re going to be told, instead they’ll be given a date of when they’ll see the consultant. This only means they’re on the HSE treadmill, he/she may send them for tests, scans etc.and make an appointment to see them in another 6 months and review these and so on.
Nevertheless the HSE can say this fulfills the claims made today if a patient can be shown to have seen a consultant in the time stated, they’ll be able to say there are medical reasons why they haven’t had their surgery and, of course, they won’t comment on individual cases. In short it’s just another delaying tactic, another 5 Year Plan that everyone knows is smoke and mirrors but can’t be proven false for 5 years. At which point a different Minister will reveal his next 5 Year Plan…
I have an appointment to the Respiratory Outpatients clinic Beaumont Hospital, dated Mon 26th June 2021 – so yeah every patient already knows the date of their appointments. That is NOT THE ISSUE!!!
Harris has failed miserably at getting Irish people proper health. This Minister is like a flat tyre you go and change the tyre in this picture the tyre is Minister Harris
The only thing that Harris & co can guarantee is that this is not going to improve under Fianna Gael. They excel at bull$hitting the country & that’s about it. Harris has done nothing to improve the health service but will prosper nicely in the party for doing his time as the Minister for Death.
without stating the obvious, would it not better to focus on reducing the lists?. Patients should be kept up to date regardless with regular communication. Not exactly difficult to do!
How much is this going to cost us.we already know how bloody long it’s going to take
Next year,???, what about this year ,last year ,and all those years before then?
Just more spin,
With an election coming up there is suddenly a plan!
I’ll belive when i see it happening my daughter was told 52 weeks to see a consultant and god knows how long on a waiting list to have the operation
@Margaret Kane: I’m learning that the private system has it’s delays as well, sadly. By the time I see my consultant in September, I will have been waiting nearly 6 months. Not as bad, sure.. but this is something I’m forking out cash for, on top of insurance every month.
I worked in health insurance for 6 years. During that time, i heard how great it was going private – you’d usually have an appointment within 2 months. my first time using it, and i’m having to wait 3 times that.
I lost my sense of taste at the end of january, for no reason i can determine. i don’t smoke or do drugs, and hadn’t had a drink since christmas. this has seriously impacted my mental health, which was surprising.. but think about it. imagine smelling a food you love, but knowing you won’t taste it and in fact, it’ll probably feel terrible. example: i love pancakes, but can’t eat them anymore, because they feel like kitchen paper when i do. i’ve had an emotional breakdown, and increased depression since losing my sense of taste. by the dictionary definition, i’m technically disabled due to sensory loss. somehow, even on the private system this isn’t considered a big deal..
i’m coming to realise, first hand, just how much of a shambles our health system really is, and it’s scary. the fact that i’m experiencing this on the private system makes be glad i’m not going public, because from keeping tabs on the news i’m aware of just how much worse it is.
Your guaranteed to wait 4 years before you go on a waiting list for the waiting list or pay up.
Simon Harris and Eoin Murphy Ministers of Spin and False promises ,great at new initiative’s and press launches never get any thing done sack them now
everyone should be able to visit a GP for a nominal charge of say €10 with a reasonable monthly cap per family
also huge time and money is wasted by those who fail to turn up for appointments, time something was done to encourage repeat offenders to stop doing so
Next year.. Ohh that means a distraction to kick the can further down the road.
Harris is an easy scape goat. The real problems started when the HSE was set up in the first place. The only solutions put forward since then has been to shovel more money into the behemoth. This slaintecare malarkey is the same thing. We know only too well how terrible the state bureaucracy is in running even simple things, why anyone would trust them with something as complex as providing quality
healthcare is beyond me.
Fake news again, another plan, your not fit for purpose lads
Believe it when you see it. This genius is too busy solving the problems of the health service in the north.
Shorter waiting lists? They must be off their trolleys.
This is nothing more than a political stunt by the gov.
They have all failed at health, Martin, Vadaker and now Harris. All trying to put a square peg into a round hole. Shut down the HSE and get some foreigner in to set up a proper system.
Well two years plus too get results of an MRI just because the ortho surgeon decided he don’t work with adults any more that’s ok well it will cost more if people take a court case why lock the stable after the cattle have bolted .there are too many chiefs and not enough Indians the amount of admin staff and agency staff it would be cheaper too have full time staff and bring back matrons when they were around things got done no dirt or insects running around the floors
@Fran Barron: also I got a letter from neurology saying I’m on the list for a waiting list what a joke any thing could happen too me I blanked still walking etc but smashed my face it is deduced by my GP I am having petit Mal seizures .I have too have people with me I’ve already walked out in traffic without realising it my wife grabbed me in just in time
It’s the FG way ! How people can repeatedly vote for these shysters baffles me.
@GorillaGrower: what’s the alternative.
@Damon16: close borders down. Tens of thousands of people coming here every year is only adding to waiting lists for everything. My friend is on housing waiting list since 1995 because he is single person with no children he was told they have priority over him. If you have heart problem or serious health issues, one could be on waiting list for 2 years if you haven’t private hralth insurance. If you have money you live, if you haven’t you die.
W
Its obvious that some people thinks these clowns are doing a great job otherwise they wouldn’t be getting elected
Simple Simon another plan for next year. Let’s state the obvious simple Simon a failure in health. He no need to worry about the next few years because this people on waiting lists will dump him at the next election.
If you are on a waiting list try to get treatment over seas its quickies and cheaper.
Is there a waiting list to get on another waiting list ?
Get that child out of office…..
what a fool this fella is…but it’s not just him.all before have failed our great country and that includes our current taoiseach who by the way has not been voted for by the country nor did the majority of his own party
More promises. More lies. More political posturing at the expense of the sick. No actual plan. No hope of real change. This is a doomed rehash of several previous I implemented and failed ideas. Either remove money from medicine or suffer as we do.
Doctor told me a few months back I would have to wait four years to be seen in outpatients , now that is before I have to wait for the operation .
Wonderful. The minister for speaking the bleeding obvious introduces a scheme to let you know you are on a waiting list but does not tackle the reason why you are on a waiting list. Jesus wept.
This is just another FG pipe dream. They put this out there to try a smoke screen their failures. No costings, no real plan. 10 years is a long time to implement change. I know it can’t happen over night. A complete restructuring of the health service from the minister down is required. Harris should step down as he is obviously in over his head and has totally lost control of his dept. Leo needs to quit ponsing around and head hunt real competent business people from the private sector to dismantle and rebuild the health service while a competent minister over sees the restructuring.
We need somebody who has the skills to negotiate with unions etc, to find an approach that will keep all parties at the table.
More bull talk #yawn
Wonderful. The minister for speaking the terminal obvious introduces a scheme to let you know you are on a waiting list but does not tackle the reason why you are on a waiting list. Brilliant
Sorry this is just a joke. There is no way waiting lists will be reduced unless they hire more people. The insanity of the public health system. I would be very concerned about the mental health of the doctors (and nurses) in the system as they KNOW they have this huge list of people coming behind the ones right in front of them. So do you care for the one in front of you, take your time to ensure they will not need to be called back…or do you rush through to clear the waiting list, making mistakes and wishing you had more time to do your job properly. Fair play to those in the healthcare system but I certainly could not handle that kind of stress….
Wonderful. The minister for speaking the bleeding obvious introduces a scheme to let you know you are on a waiting list but does not tackle the reason why you are on a waiting list. Brilliant
That’s sgrest help!!
‘Live, horse, and you’ll eat grass.’
The boy Harris talks a good game
Oh fook off ffs
Brilliant its a miracle cure for all illness
Been told how long you will be hanging on.
Sure you will start feeling better right away.
@Thomas Brophy: yup, 2+ years waiting for ENT consult, I seem to have been dropped off the pain clinic radar since the existing consultant left Beaumont. He told me he doesn’t give opiates to fibro patients as they don’t work. That’s another story. Then also having to get to these appointments in Dublin from Meath with no transport. Public transport is far too much on my body with zero direct routes) I keep receiving those letters “do you still need this appointment” of course I bloody do. If I didn’t need it I wouldn’t be still complaining to my GP every week. Why is that GPs cannot or refuse to chase up positions on waiting lists for their patients ,by at least using their admin staff to do so? Because they get nowhere that’s why. Tbh with you my GP is the only doctor that ever gives me any help with my pain .I have severe fibromyalgia and other issues; fibromyalgia, which by the way is not just PAIN it’s a myriad of awful symptoms that effect the entire CNS and sympathetic nervous system which have left me now in bed practically most of my day unable to exercise due to how weak and shaky I am.
In Ireland patients like me are just left on neverending waiting lists with really no place to fit in. Rheumatology can’t help me Cardiology couldn’t help me, PAIN clinic basically told me to piss off and do some Yoga and I’d get better . . There are thousands and thousands of us with this illness and M.E in Ireland just being left to rot in their excruciating all over pain, severe fatigue, widespread muscle weakness, multiple sensory dysfunction and 200+ other symptoms and not one public consultant in 14 years has ever helped me improve AT all. It’s a living nightmare. Most of us dread even going to these umcompassionate appointments because NOTHING is ever done to help us. No doctors here are being trained in how to deal with patients like us yet Fibromyalgia and M.E which were pretty unknown when I was diagnosed in 2005 is now a silent epidemic with no cure or even a proper treatment protocol at this stage yet they’ve known it exists since 1904.
Don’t get me onto the topic my special needs 14yr old who has a physical disability and who has been messed around by the CRC and HSE all of her life and I am constantly fighting to get her help while suffering myself.
This latest drivel from the health minister is more talk talk talk and zero action. Look what has happened to draffing legislation for access to medical cannabis strains which could help thousands. . .
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