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'It needs to be more than sorry': Archbishop wants Pope to meet abuse victims during Irish visit

The comments from the Church come ahead of Pope Francis’ visit to Ireland next week.

LAST UPDATE | 17 Aug 2018

THE PRIMATE OF All-Ireland has said that he would like to think that Pope Francis will meet survivors of abuse when he visits Ireland next week, as part of efforts to reach out and apologise for the actions of members of the Catholic Church.

Archbishop Eamon Martin made the comments to the BBC’s Mark Simpson ahead of the World Meeting of Families, where Pope Francis will say mass in the Phoenix Park, as well as making a speech at Croke Park.

It also comes after a Vatican statement, which expressed “shame and sorrow” for the US scandal where a report this week uncovered more than 1,000 victims of abuse from members of the Catholic Church.

Martin, the archbishop of Armagh, said that expects Pope Francis to “reach out” when he comes to Ireland.

“He will try to express the grave sorrow of the church,” he said. “But I think people want more than that.

He will want to express the church’s commitment that if a member of your family is involved in an activity with the church, they will be as safe there as in their own home.

Martin added that he’d “like to think” that the Pope will meet survivors of abuse and address this issue in a meaningful way during his Irish visit.

He said: “If he expresses an apology, it needs to be more than sorry. We need to demonstrate we are committed to the wellbeing of children and young people and vulnerable adults who comes within our churches.”

An estimated half a million people are expected to attend mass at the Phoenix Park, almost 40 years after over a million were in attendance for a mass with Pope John Paul II in 1979.

Earlier this week, the Bishop of Limerick Brendan Leahy said the Pope’s visit is a crossroads moment for the Church to acknowledge its past, good and bad, and added it was necessary to recognise the dark aspects of its history.

‘Shame and sorrow’

“Victims should know that the Pope is on their side,” the Vatican said in a statement after a devastating US grand jury report published on Tuesday decried a systematic cover-up by the Catholic Church.

“Those who have suffered are his priority, and the Church wants to listen to them to root out this tragic horror that destroys the lives of the innocent,” the  Vatican statement went on.

Italy: Pope Francis Leads In Rome's Circus Maximus An Evening Prayer Vigil With Youths Nurphoto / SIPA USA/PA Images Nurphoto / SIPA USA/PA Images / SIPA USA/PA Images

“There are two words that can express the feelings faced with these horrible crimes: shame and sorrow,” it said.

The Vatican statement added that the church needed to learn “hard lessons from its past, and there should be accountability for both abusers and those who permitted abuse to occur”.

The report is thought to be the most comprehensive to date into abuse in the US church, since The Boston Globe first exposed paedophile priests in Massachusetts in 2002.

But while Tuesday’s report led to charges against two priests, one of whom has pleaded guilty, the majority of those responsible are dead and the vast majority of crimes happened too long ago to prosecute, officials said.

The two-year investigation by a grand jury into all but two Pennsylvania dioceses turned up dozens of witnesses and half a million pages of church records containing “credible allegations against over three hundred predator priests.”

More than 1,000 child victims were identifiable, but the “real number” was “in the thousands,” the grand jury estimated.

Hidden for decades

Victims were often traumatised for life, driven to drugs, alcohol and suicide, the grand jury said. The only recourse was to recommend changes to the law and expose what had happened to make sure such widespread abuse was never repeated.

So far only two new priests are being charged with crimes that fall within the statute of limitations.

The grand jury called for changes in the law that would scrap the statute of limitations for child sex abuse, give victims more time to file civil lawsuits and tighten legislation compelling people to report abuse they find out about.

“Despite some institutional reform, individual leaders of the church have largely escaped public accountability,” the report said.

“Priests were raping little boys and girls, and the men of God who were responsible for them not only did nothing; they hid it all. For decades.”

Church elders were instead promoted and predator priests allowed to remain in ministries for 10, 20, even 40 years after leaders learned of their crimes as the list of victims got longer and longer, Pennsylvania’s Attorney General Josh Shapiro said.

Between 5,700 and 10,000 Catholic priests have been accused of sexual abuse in the United States, but only a few hundred have been tried, convicted, and sentenced for their crimes, according to the watchdog Bishop Accountability.

Since the abuse crisis became public in the 2000s, the US church has spent more than $3 billion in settlements, according to Bishop Accountability.

One estimate suggests up there were 100,000 US victims.

‘Zero tolerance’

Francis was elected in 2013 and vowed to take a “zero tolerance” approach to clerical sex abuse and rid the Church of the scourge of paedophilia, which has done enormous damage to its standing in many countries.

But his credibility on the issue has been hit by a series of missteps and victims’ organisations maintain that the Church remains reluctant to hand paedophile priests over to criminal justice authorities.

Francis has compared sex abuse by priests to participating in a “Satanic Mass”, but he has also been accused of being too soft on paedophiles, extending to them a general policy of mercy he is promoting in the Roman Catholic Church.

There are widespread accusations that the Catholic Church ignored and covered up child abuse in other countries such as Australia and Chile.

With reporting from AFP

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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Nov 4th 2014, 2:20 PM

    Good to see NTA producing such excellent information.

    Now start putting pressure on the government to commit to building the rail infrastructure Dublin needs!

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    Mute Paul Roche
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    Nov 4th 2014, 5:07 PM

    Dublin?

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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Nov 4th 2014, 6:35 PM

    Yes. Dublin. Where 83% of passengers use the network and the infrastructure is most critically needed.

    But your comment inadvertently showcases part of the reason why the railway infrastructure Dublin needs will not be built any time soon. Spending €4 billion euro fixing Dublin’s railway network might be a necessary cost that by all indications would pay itself back many times over, but it’s political suicide for our political class who are very sensitive to the rural vote. If Dublin gets anything, the cries soon start… “why does Dublin get everything?”. Beyond that still, you’d have cries of “why are we spending 4 billion on a railway line when we need to spend X here” etc. Irish politicians don’t think in the long term. A project that takes 6 years to build doesn’t provide enough political return.

    So I’m afraid Dublin commuters are gonna have to suck it up, because no government that has a realistic chance of coming to power is going to build the railway infrastructure we need!

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    Mute John S
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    Nov 4th 2014, 6:47 PM

    Connolly, Pearse, Tara and Heuston are the busiest, talk about stating the obvious…..

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    Mute Ryan Carroll
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    Nov 4th 2014, 8:10 PM

    Now that we have the budget situation under control, finishing Transport 21 could form a great part of a decent simulus package. Theres so many projects they could get moving on:

    -Dart II west to Celbridge
    -The Luas extensions to Lucan (via Liffey Valley) and Bray
    -The Dart Underground interconnector
    -Metro North and West
    -The previously canceled (in 2008) replacement of the dart rolling stock

    All of them would have a huge multiplier effect on the economy and if we did them all at the same time even better.

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    Mute Gillian Kennedy
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    Nov 4th 2014, 8:45 PM

    I see they didn’t bother answering the question posed in the headline.

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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Nov 4th 2014, 9:04 PM

    “Now that we have the budget situation under control, finishing Transport 21 could form a great part of a decent simulus package.”

    I’m sort of with you, but the use of the word “stimulus” makes me edgy in an Irish context. I’ve heard some politicians support big projects in theory because of the number of jobs they’ll “create”, which in reality is far down the list of reasons these projects are needed. That said, if that was to generate enough political return for them to pursue them, perhaps I wouldn’t mind!

    Sadly, the government will not use any improvement in budget position for significant capital investment, it’ll all go to easily buying votes with more current expenditure, a trend which they’ve begun with this budget. Transport 21 is dead – it was never FF’s intention to actually get it finished, and FG are even worse than them when it comes to being stingy for infrastructure spending. T21 was largely a self-congratulatory repackaging of projects that had already been floating around for ages. Half of those projects were reconstituted as the revised national development plan in 2010 and FF left it to FG and Labour to quietly cancel them.

    But if we imagine for a moment, we live in a country where the government does actually care about public transport beyond platitudes…

    My personal opinion is that the Luas extention to Lucan is a bit messy, and while the Bray extension would be good in terms of connectivity, we’d want to see the current extension getting a lot more patronage. The DART replacement stock is largely a function of getting the second DART line up and running and I always felt that Metro West was a good idea (radial link, link to Blanchardstown) not particularly well-executed.

    If the government had any imagination, what they could do is electrify not the Celbridge/Hazelhatch line, but the Maynooth/Pace M3*. You could then run a DART line from Maynooth, and the second DART line on the Northern line. This would lay the groundwork for the new underground. You could then electrify Celbridge and also fill in the missing quad-track section, perhaps even building the Inchicore DART station at the same time.

    This could’ve all been done piecemeal, as funds allowed. By now, we could have all the groundwork done and ‘only’ the tunnel left to do to put everything into place. Instead, as I mentioned below in another comment, it’s more likely than not that the whole thing was packaged as one big expensive project because the FF government of the time never had any serious intention of building it, and this government can use the “no funds” rationale to excuse their lack of ambition or imagination.

    *As an aside I mention that we may as well electrify the Pace M3 line because the Navan railway extension isn’t happening. Dempsey promised it for about 15 years and then paved an M3 motorway over a crucial part of the alignment. With regard the Metro North, the powers that be are planning to pave a Swiftway bus corridor right over the its alignment – you can look up the BRT plans on the NTA website. The soundings being made about how this delivers the benefits of light rail, at a fraction of the cost™ should set alarm bells ringing. This kind of short-term attitude is exactly why we have crummy infrastructure. Build the cheap solution and spend 10 times more fixing it later. See: M50 motorway.

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    Mute Ian イアン [STGオタク]
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    Nov 4th 2014, 3:47 PM

    ‘A day in the life of Ireland’s Railways: Commuter Edition.’

    5:00am – Set the alarm early and get to the station for the first train. Miss this one and no seat for you Mr/Ms Commuter!

    6:30am – Squeeze on to a carriage. Nearly get arrested over jostling with someone for a seat.

    6:32am – Don’t a seat. End up standing near the lav. Scowl as those with seats pretend to ignore anyone pregnant, elderly or with a disability.

    6:40am – “Next station.. Na Sceri” Repeat the words of the station announcer in my head while trying to focus on the book I am reading. Smile to myself as it’s grand to hear a bit of Irish!

    6:41am – “NEXT STATION… NA SCERI!” Cowl in terror, frightened by the sudden deafening rise in volume. Driver probably fell asleep and slipped on the volume knob…

    6:55am – “NEXT STATION… DONUT BAT!!!” …hmm methinks the driver just cranked up the volume for the laughs. Git.

    9:37am – Arrive at Connolly. Train resembles an overnight sleeper from Calcutta. Squeeze my way out and breathe. Off for a fun workday we go!

    5:55pm – “Irish Rail apologises that all the signals are not working. You can get a bus to somewhere vaguely near your gaf though. We will update you at some point tonight”. Ah, sound. 15 minute delay then.

    10:53pm – Cold. Tired. Hungry. Frightened…

    11:03pm – Train finally rocks up to Connolly station.

    11:05pm – “NEXT STATION… NA SCERI!!!! ….NEXT STATION…. BAILLE BRIGIN!!!… NEXT STATION… MULLACH IDE!!!!” GPS is fecked and the volume is defeaning. Grand.

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    Mute Mike Clinton
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    Nov 4th 2014, 9:46 PM

    Brilliant.

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    Mute david dickson
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    Nov 4th 2014, 2:17 PM

    and a new price increase.

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    Mute Mike Clinton
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    Nov 4th 2014, 2:41 PM

    I recently had to attend a meeting in Tralee,I flew down and got the train back and have to say the train journey was one of the most relaxing and enjoyable trips I have made in many years.
    The wifi is great and the power points on the club car gave me a chance to get a lot of work done in complete comfort.

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    Mute Piotrek Król
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    Nov 4th 2014, 2:49 PM

    Disagreed. The wifi is an embarrassment.

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    Mute Ablitive
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    Nov 4th 2014, 2:51 PM

    Depends on the line.

    Dublin to Cork is fine, Dublin to Galway has a good bad black spots.

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    Mute mcgoo
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    Nov 4th 2014, 3:13 PM

    Not all trains have power points at each seat either which is a bit annoying in the smartphone era!

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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Nov 4th 2014, 3:21 PM

    It’s one of the biggest oversights in the ordering of the Mk IV sets (Dublin-Cork trains) that our ‘premier line’, our busiest intercity, doesn’t even have power points. It’s dire.

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    Mute Daniel Dudek Corrigan
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    Nov 4th 2014, 2:10 PM

    and how many “signal faults”?

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    Mute Tom Collins
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    Nov 4th 2014, 3:18 PM

    If you build it they will come.

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    Mute alpha_chaarlie
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    Nov 4th 2014, 2:19 PM

    Even our busiest stations are mickey mouse operations.

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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Nov 4th 2014, 2:23 PM

    That’s not a fair statement. They’re busy enough given a country of our size.

    The problem is we’re enslaved to a rail company that appears to actively despise having customers. No government has the bottle to do what needs to be done, and tender out the operation of our railways. It’s no coincidence that the only railway that runs anywhere near efficiently in this country, is the privately-operated Luas.

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    Mute Chris Mansfield
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    Nov 4th 2014, 2:41 PM

    The LUAS is a fairly simple operation, with two lines that don’t intersect and no junctions. That means that what happens on what part of the network is isolated from other parts.

    Where you get a similar simple situation on Irish Rail (e.g. The Cork-Cobh/Midleton line) the operation runs as well.

    I’m not saying Irish Rail can’t improve, but it’s a huge leap to say privatization is the way to achieve it.

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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Nov 4th 2014, 3:00 PM

    Hi Chris, the Irish rail network is not hugely complicated.

    Do not misunderstand what I suggest. I would like to see the state retaining ownership of the infrastructure, it is merely the services I would like to see tendered out. Exactly how Luas operates. Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus have both made dramatic improvements in the last few years, and I would suggest a large part of that due to the increase in competition from other providers. With Aircoach and Citylink on the scene, what BE was offering had to improve, and it has. From 2016, 10% of Dublin bus routes will now be open to tender, with the NTA specifying the types of buses et al. DB will be free to submit a bid to run those routes. London runs quite a successful network on the same model, so why can’t we?

    But one of the CIE companies has made minimal improvements, and that is Irish Rail, and until their position is challenged they will refuse to. While I will criticise every government of the last 30 years for not being committed to delivering the necessary improvements to our railway infrastructure, and throwing money at politically-motivated rubbish like the western rail corridor, the reality is that during the boom, there was enough money floating around for Irish Rail to have done far far more than it achieved. Instead they bought fancy new trains and ran them on lines that are slower than 20 years ago. Why are they only now considering using phoenix park tunnel, why is the city centre re-signalling taking an eternity, why was DART Underground tendered with a vital link missing, why is their customer information so poor, why are their staff striking over minimal pay reductions, why did they not see the writing on the ball with the new motorway network being developed, and are NOW asking for more money to upgrade lines to speeds they promised in the early 90′s etc.

    Irish Rail have a legacy of failure far more than people realise. Their position during the boom was extraordinarily arrogant and self-congratulatory given how little they achieved. I’d welcome even a conservative action, where 10% of the rail routes are tendered out. IE need a kick up the hole. The current situation is serving no one well. But given that Irish governments tend to treat the railway as a train set that for which they can buy new pieces for political gain, my hopes of this happening are slim.

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    Mute john doe
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    Nov 4th 2014, 3:50 PM

    Search, the rail network is actually hugely complicated. The dart line alone, has thousands of interlocked relays and solid state equipment to make it failsafe, including level crossings, signals and points. All this equipment is interlocked by thousands of cabling, almost all black cores. If one of these thousands of wires or connections fails, then faults happen. This includes corroding cabling, as some of the cables are old, and problems with rats eating cables too. It’s not as simple as running a train up and down the line. There is also all the telecom gear and signallers equipment with links to all that equipment. You can’t just make a fleeting comment, with absolutely no idea what goes on. I work for irish rail, and there are probably problems with the model, but all that privatising will do, is increase the price of a ticket. I welcome privatisation. I am an electrician in signalling, and we don’t earn the trade rate, maybe with privatisation, we would get paid the actual electricians rates. Private companies will come soon, as irish rail have to open up to competition, but it might not be all good for the customer. Be careful what you wish for.

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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Nov 4th 2014, 4:05 PM

    “Search, the rail network is actually hugely complicated. ”

    Not compared to a lot of other countries who manage to run theirs properly. I was referring more so to the network than the actual physical design and logic of the tracks et al.

    “You can’t just make a fleeting comment, with absolutely no idea what goes on. ”

    And I didn’t. Find me another wealthy country where what you’ve said above doesn’t apply. It doesn’t justify running a second rate service. Anyway at no point have I suggested making the infrastructure private. Nor did I suggest running a railway was a simple matter of just buying a train, lashing down a bit of track and away you go. But as I said, that’s the case in ALL similar countries, so it’s irrelevant. I would’ve accepted the argument about lack of investment 30 years ago, but that excuse has worn thin. At some point IE has to take responsibility for the fact that the services it offers are largely crap.

    “all that privatising will do, is increase the price of a ticket.”

    Not being privatised hasn’t stopped the price increasing dramatically in the last few years.

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    Mute Michael Fehily
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    Nov 4th 2014, 4:26 PM

    Alpha..A but unfair to say all irish stations are mickey mouse. By European standards , yes they’re small. However they’re very underutilized. Thats not IR’s fault. That’s governments fault for not investing..

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    Mute Ian Murphy
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    Nov 4th 2014, 5:01 PM

    This population argument is rubbish.
    Have people never seen train services in the likes of Denmark? Population 5.6m, not that much bigger than Ireland but a train system that is way beyond ours.
    A capital city with only one “Metro” style train line that has a peak service of trains every 15 minutes is just not good enough in this day and age
    I would argue if they built more lines and increased services they would actually attract more passengers out of cars and would increase revenues.
    Instead they focus on cost cutting, treat passengers with disdain by cramming people into 4 carriages at rush hour.
    Don’t believe me? Look at the Luas people said it would be an expensive white elephant and not enough demand etc. It’s a roaring success that is always busy with reliable and frequent services. No need to look at a timetable if you want one.

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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Nov 4th 2014, 6:24 PM

    @Michael “However they’re very underutilized. Thats not IR’s fault. That’s governments fault for not investing..”.

    It’s a combination of the Irish government not caring about railways beyond a political plaything, Irish Rail being wasteful with the money they *did* get, and the Irish public for not demanding enough of either. Irish people WILL use quality public transport when it’s provided, but we need more effective platforms for communicating that message to our inept political classes, most of whom don’t understand the first thing about public transport (probably because they never have to use it!)

    @Ian – I largely agree with you, but a few points:

    “I would argue if they built more lines and increased services they would actually attract more passengers out of cars and would increase revenues.”

    I do agree, but I think we should focus on making our existing lines work first. We have the shovel ready ‘project’ DART Underground waiting to go that largely addresses a lot of problems in the Dublin, and national railway network. I put ‘project’ in marks because it should really be considered a related collection of projects, and if the government had any imagination, they would pursue it in piecemeal fashion as funds allow, and then put in the finished tunnel element as the last thing, so we could reap the benefits, of say, Maynooth electrification, even in tighter times. Instead they’ve lumped it altogether as one hugely expensive project, because the reality is that no one in FF or FG actually has any serious desire to build it. It will be cancelled and re-designed again, for I’m not sure, the 4th or 5th time since the 1970′s when it was first envisioned. The other big project that needs to happen is Metro North, but all the noises out of government about “Swiftway” suggests that it has been quietly cancelled.

    “A capital city with only one “Metro” style train line that has a peak service of trains every 15 minutes is just not good enough in this day and age”

    If DART Underground was built, and the lines around Dublin electrified, and a competent rail operator found, then this problem could be addressed. I’ll be fair to IE on this one, they have been pushing for this in the last few years, but FG and Labour have no interest in public transport so it’s not going to happen. Bare in mind that the current DART line itself is a downgrade of an original proposal for a properly connected series of lines with a tunnel through the heart of a city. We can thank lack of political ambition and some misuse of EU funding for that.

    “Instead they focus on cost cutting, treat passengers with disdain by cramming people into 4 carriages at rush hour.”

    Treating passengers with disdain is the CIE way.

    “Look at the Luas people said it would be an expensive white elephant and not enough demand etc. It’s a roaring success that is always busy with reliable and frequent services. No need to look at a timetable if you want one.”

    Luas is a roaring success, despite being hugely over-budget and due to political ‘considerations’ (read: interference) built as two disconnected lines instead of the originally envisioned three properly connected ones (yet another re-design, see above). Interestingly, it originally started life as a CIE project, but thank goodness for all of us it was taken out of their clutches!

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    Mute Chris Mansfield
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    Nov 4th 2014, 2:39 PM

    I sometimes wonder how much is to be learned from this exercise.

    By picking a Friday in November, you miss out on all sorts of tourist traffic (very important at some stations like Killarney or Fota). You also overinflate the figures for InterCity by catching people going home for the weekend.

    You’d also have thought that all this could also be worked out from ticket sales. Even those on free travel passes are supposed to pick up a ticket before travel.

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    Mute Austin Rock
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    Nov 4th 2014, 3:11 PM

    And they still can’t connect two train journeys – “We are sorry to announce that the 17.28 service to Maynooth is delayed by approx 20 minutes, due to the non arrival of an incoming train” – they do entertain though.

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    Mute bandido
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    Nov 4th 2014, 3:10 PM

    Is this the same NTA that said passenger numbers increased, and then 3 days later announced price increases due to decreasing passenger numbers?

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    Mute Kool Tiger
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    Nov 4th 2014, 3:53 PM

    I like using the train when in Ireland and find the service very good and the prices reasonable in comparison to what I’m used to with our privatized network here in the UK.
    If you have to rely on overcrowded trains which don’t run on time or get cancelled because of leaves on the line or wrong kind of snow or part of the line being stolen then you will appreciate what you have got in Ireland.

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    Mute RoisinMaguire
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    Nov 4th 2014, 4:39 PM

    Kool Tiger you sound like you are in the enviable position of not relying on the Irish Rail system daily. In the past year I have experienced all 3 of the scenarios you mentioned – leaves are a daily issue causing delays this time of year, the copper cables were stolen from a signal box somewhere on the southbound dart line back in May leaving commuters stranded and with more than an inch of snow the DART shuts down completely. That’s on the days the line is not flooded. It’s great craic standing on crowded trains when you’re pregnant too. Roll on the 2015 price increase.

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    Mute Mike
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    Nov 4th 2014, 4:51 PM

    Get yourself a Leap Card. Those who use Leap cards will see their fares drop by between 2.1% and 4.1% in 2015.

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    Mute RoisinMaguire
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    Nov 4th 2014, 5:03 PM

    I have one Mike and to be fair the prices are exactly the reason I put up with all of the above. It’s a lot cheaper than running a car the same commute would be. Plus I find it much easier to nap on the train than while driving ;) Just felt kool tiger needed a little clarification

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    Mute Sarah Snotface Kellett
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    Nov 4th 2014, 6:14 PM

    I have an almost over dramatic hatred for Irishrail. Paying €3k + a year and I can’t remember the last time I had a seat going to work in the morning. I’m neither pregnant nor ederly but can suffer crippling back pain. I must have been mad to think paying so much would afford me a seat….

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    Mute Mike
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    Nov 4th 2014, 6:39 PM

    I have friends that live just outside London and travel into the city for work. They pay £4k plus a year. Sometimes thet cannot get on a train never mind get a seat.

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    Mute Irish Cottage Rental
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    Nov 8th 2014, 8:06 PM

    No surprises – Dublin Belfast enterprise express travels at average speed of less than 80kmh / 50 mph – more or less same speed as 1960′s – 20 year old rolling stock expensive fares and rotten wifi – the difference is – we’re Irish!

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