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THE POPE ADDRESSED the issue of abuses by Church members in his first words at this afternoon’s Papal Mass at Dublin’s Phoenix Park, in a departure from the expected script.
Speaking in Spanish, Pope Francis said:
“We ask forgiveness for the abuse in Ireland. Abuses of power, conscience and sexual abuse perpetrated by members with roles of responsibility in the Church.
“In a special way we ask pardon for all the abuses committed in various institutions run by male or female religious members of the Church and we ask for forgiveness for those cases of exploitation through manual work that so many young women and men were subjected to.
We ask forgiveness for the times that as a Church we did not show survivors of whatever kind of abuse compassion and the seeking of justice and truth through concrete actions. We ask for forgiveness.
There was applause at several points as he made his comments, which were relayed to the crowd via a translator.
The pope’s comments were, if not off-the-cuff, not necessarily expected. Material on what he would say in his homily was distributed to the press ahead of the Mass – and his remarks at the opening of the ceremony were a departure from that.
The pope has been criticised for not going far enough in his remarks on abuse during his visit to Ireland, and this afternoon’s comments are notable in that he asked the congregation for forgiveness.
In Knock this morning he said that in his silent prayer to the statue of the Virgin Mary, he had presented to her all of the victims of abuse committed by members of the Church in Ireland and asked God for forgiveness ”for these sins and for the scandal and betrayal felt by so many others in God’s family”.
The pontiff also addressed the issue of clerical abuse in his keynote speech at Dublin Castle yesterday, commenting that be could not fail to “acknowledge” the scandal. Campaigners pointed out in the wake of that address that he did not apologise publicly to survivors and he did not mention the overall responsibility of the Church in relation to the abuse.
Yesterday the pontiff met with eight survivors of clerical, religious and institutional abuse, including Paul Redmond of the Coalition of Mother and Baby Home Survivors.
Remond said the pope had apologised for what happened in the Church-run homes and condemned the corruption and cover-up as “caca”, which can be translated literally as “shit”.
The attendance at the Phoenix Park Mass is lower than expected, and though no official figures have been released as yet aerial shots of the crowd show sections of clear space in the sprawling area cordoned off for the event.
Weather conditions were very poor in Dublin and across much of the country this morning, with prolonged rain.
A demonstration in support of survivors of abuse is taking place at Parnell Square in the city centre to coincide with the pope’s Mass.
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Amazing speech, well said. He addressed everything, even the apology to single mothers #forgiveness
@Ali Ní Dhomhnaill: if I did the same would the judge give me a pardon if I apologised? PS asking for forgiveness isn’t saying sorry.
@Dave O Keeffe: …but he did say sorry.
@Ali Ní Dhomhnaill: he apologised?
“Amazing speech”? Asking for the abusers to be forgiven is far from amazing in my eyes.
@Ajax Penumbra: did he feck! He asked for other people to pardon, forgive and repent. Based on the scale of abuse, and the ages of the clergy present, nearly every one of them knows people who have raped children and have not been jailed due to the system this guy runs. Stop messing about with semantics, these are not sins, they are serious crimes.
@Dave O Keeffe: only god can judge you. And what exactly is he to say sorry for, he didn’t do anything. He is asking for forgiveness for everything, which is an apology, there are many ways to apologize and I for one think he has said more than enough throughout the whole visit and deserves a bit of respect.
@Aideen Thornton: he is not asking for abusers to be forgiven. He has nothing to do with the abusers and was first pope to put an investigation into abuse. He is asking for forgiveness for the church. You can’t blame a nation for the sins of a handful of its citizens.
@Ali Ní Dhomhnaill: why won’t he release all the files that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith have on the accused? These should be handed over to the respective authorities. These apologies always come after the abuses have been investigated by a third party, and the stone walling by the church is ineffective. If he is actually sorry for what happened the church would not fight these investigations with such vitriol.
@Ajax Penumbra: he most certainly did not say “ Sorry “
@Ali Ní Dhomhnaill: every day that he doesn’t give the information in his possession to the authorities is another day he lives as a criminal. Look at Donegal, the pope moved a bishop that knowingly did nothing about a paedophile priest down the road a little to a parish where the previous bishop had to resign after knowingly performing the funeral of a paedophile priest. Familiar pattern, just move the problem around. When a retired priest living in the area voiced his disgust at this a spokesperson for the diocese said that the priest voicing concern was not of the area and was not living in diocese property. As if that makes a difference. Finger in the ear and tongue out nonsense from the church.
@Ali Ní Dhomhnaill: only god can judge you?!!!! Absolute bull….! The courts and a jury of their peers should be judging all those who abused and those who knowingly conspired to and continue to aid and abet the abusers and chief among them is the mealy mouthed head of the cesspool that is the church
@Ali Ní Dhomhnaill: Pedo apologist
@Dave O Keeffe: Why are you asking for an appology if you have no interest in believing it ? You don’t ask forgiveness for something you did right…..it was said as part of the confeteor (saying sorry !) which is admitting your sins in a Mass context .
God spare me……some people are never happy !!!
@Colette Kearns: as far as I know some of the people representing abuse victims/survivors that met him yesterday evening said that he did apologise.
@Jerriko17: an apology isn’t an apology if you just keep doing the same thing over and over again.
@Dave O Keeffe: The pope didn’t abuse anyone so he wouldn’t be in front of a judge.
It’s very easy to say sorry, it’s away more difficult to ask for forgiveness.
@Patrick Daly: While I agree about what you have said the courts of man can and should do the judging of people that abuse and conspired. unfortunately, it won’t happen here in Ireland as the government gave the religious an indemnity deal to protect them from prosecution and duped very vulnerable survivors into a redress court where they were on trial and not the abusers, then the government sealed the files for 75 years I believe that to be around 2090. The survivors would be the ones that would end up in a court before their abusers ever would in this county for speaking out about their abuse.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/75-years-abuse-files-to-be-secret-315901.html#.VPbadiHtJMg.twitter
http://theenchantingvalley.ning.com/forum/topics/a-background-to-the-indemnity
@Ali Ní Dhomhnaill: he abused Chilean survivors and he facilitated cover up. His own cardinals are turning against him
@Ali Ní Dhomhnaill: he didn’t apologise. He asked for forgiveness, not the same thing at all.
@Dave O Keeffe: if you say sorry your asking for forgiveness, therefore it means the same thing.
@Ali Ní Dhomhnaill: well said Ali. I’m all for the culprits being dealt with severly and support the victims wholeheartedly but I think he made a great effort to atone for the wrong that was done. There are some people who won’t be satisfied no matter what he does. I’m not particularly religious but I thoroughly enjoyed the coverage over the last two days and have always found him warm and genuine. Hope he returns soon
@Aideen Thornton: precisely my thoughts
@Gareth Cooney and Brigade Follower: an apology is worthless if you keep doing the same sin over and over again. He is sitting on thousands upon thousands of reported abuses. He has insulted survivors. Anybody else sitting on information of a crime would be in front of a judge.
@Jim Cunningham: Paul Redmond on the RTÉ says different just now! It’s a legal thing, because if he says “ Sorry “ it’s an admission of guilt!
@Ali Ní Dhomhnaill: the head of the most vile and corrupt organization in the world gave an amazing speech?
@Ali Ní Dhomhnaill: he didn’t do anything?? He’s the leader of a vile inhumane organization. He was told about abuse since 2013 and tried to cover it up. How u think the abuse of children is ok is beyond words
@Jerriko17: admitting ur sins in a mass context..Lol ..wonder would he admit them in a court context ?
@Ali Ní Dhomhnaill: fanatics never cease to amaze me
That’s an apology. To say it’s not is wrong. It’s an apology and I’m glad to see it
@Joe Phillips: It sounded little Ken an apology to me…… Never thought I would see the day that head of church would so unreservedly acknowledge the wrongs of the church. Well done Pope.
@Rob: * like
@Joe Phillips: Yep. Good to see a good turnout all weekend to.
@Joe Phillips: actions speak far louder, he has apologised to others before and done SFA
@Joe Phillips: it’s not.
He has apologized in a surprise statement at the mass in the Phoenix Park! This is thanks to what Leo Veradker told him yesterday ! I thought Leo did a wonderful job as Taoiseach yesterday in his speech. He was not rude to the pope, but told him in no uncertain terms that we as a nation would take no more of the abuse and consequent cover up by the Catholic Church. I honestly could not think of any other politician in Ireland who would have the courage or the articulation that Leo showed yesterday. I was proud for once with a politician!
@Mary Lyons: it’s a pity Bertie agreed the Church would cover only €128 million of the €1.3 billion in compensation, with the taxpayer picking up the rest.
Most generous of him with OUR chequebook.
@alphanautica: Yes it is more than a pity and given how fond Bertie allegedly was of receiving financial dig-outs one would have to question whether he got any kickback financial or otherwise for his actions here. A free ticket to Heaven perhaps?
@Mary Lyons: yea Leo told him. Ffs get a grip
@alphanautica: Bertie got a knighthood for his efforts
@alphanautica: Minister Woods did an amazing deal for the taxpayers ..oops,silly me.Minister Woods did an amazing deal for the church.
IMO,the only good thing that came out from the Bertie years,would have been the setting up of the National Counselling Service..
@Mary Lyons: The Pope did not do was he done because of Varadkar, he done so because he knows it’s the right thing to do. Leo is presiding over an organisation that can’t even get our health service functioning so we can have trust in it’s ability to care for us, how many words did Leo and co. speak that were not followed up by actions.
In a nutshell there is a individual visiting our country at the moment who holds critical information on serious crimes committed in this state. He plans on leaving tonight. He needs to be stopped and held for questioning as at matter of urgency
@Greedylocks: You want the Gardaí to arrest the head of state of a foreign country? Are you crazy?
Asking for forgiveness isn’t the same as apologising. You’re skipping a step there.
And to take a leaf out of the Catholic playbook, you can’t be truly penitent unless you rectify the injustice and make amends. Something the Curia will never do, regardless of who the Pope is.
@Seán J. Troy: Basically saying “Just forget about everything that happened because we have”
Is he for real? Unbelievable.
Seeking forgiveness. Has he apologised?
Yeah sure, no problem… no real apologies, no restitution, little criminal charges and nothing done to safe guard children in the future. What’s not to forgive?!
There are many reactionary forces within the Vatican trying to undermine this Pope – so sad to see so many condemning the Pope and wiling to bolster these conservative forces. The man is clearly sincere not just in trying to make up for past mistake of the church but also in fighting poverty and action on climate change where he is hated by the right wing forces.
@GO GREEN: he is part of the cover up. He can apologise all he likes but he is sitting on thousands of internal investigation reports.
In true Irish style – nothing to see here folks. Move along please but don’t forget to keep putting your cash in the collection box so I can maintain the lifestyle I’m entitled to
Oi!! We’re still waiting on that apology Frankie!
Two words for you frank, first one begins with an F and the second begins with an O !
As suspected, Pope Francis has no power, he is just a puppet,
The Vatican hierarchy will never humble itself on the world stage,
Canon law needs to be changed to stop protecting these criminals,
A warrant needs to be issued for all investigative files held by the Vatican and arrests need to be made,
Vatican assets need to be seized around the world to start paying billions in retribution,
As we all know these things will never happen but they need to be called for by those in power,
What baffles me is why so many around the world including Irish people seem to park the sick crimes of this ‘holy’ monarchy and continue to support them,
Are people really that desperate to have something to believe in they chose to carry cheering them on regardless ??
Words are cheap Francis – financial redress, fire/defrock/imprison guilty clergy, same for those who aided and abetted them, release Vatican records. The Ferns/Murphy/Ryan reports are 10 to 15 years old now and you think making half assed apologies is going to cut it. Ironic that you are here for a celebration of families when you have destroyed countless thousands of families over the decades. Nobody does hypocrisy like the RCC.
@Eddie O’Neill: Where are our police in all of this as many of them were told by survivors of their abuse. I didn’t see any of them rocking the boat and going to the different institutions and arresting any of them.
The cover-up is not historic, it’s ongoing. To ask for a pardon while the criminality continues is so arrogant it defies belief.
A fundamental error in this article – the pope did not pray “to the statue”.
He prayed at the site of the apparition.
Catholics do not pray to statues.
@Phillip O’Brien: maybe they should pray to statues. At least statues are real.
@Phillip O’Brien: They are not supposed to pray to statues, you mean. But they do. Just as they pray to piles of bones and vials of blood, aka relics. Catholics with their pantheon of saints and virgins also seem to ignore the first commandment.
Looks like the word “sorry” is not in his vocabulary.
Some bloke read one of the prayers of the faithful and he was wearing a hoodie with ‘Love Both’ written on it. Just shows that even the wishes of two-third of those who voted last May were not respected at this mass.
@George Sheils: What are you talking about? The Catholic church is against abortion and they haven’t changed their stance because of the referendum result
@Ciarān: I know that the church hasn’t changed its stance. But is it not somewhat disrespectful for that guy to wear a slogan on his chest when at the same time the church is supposed to be reaching out to everyone. Are we to believe that everyone who attended the mass today voted No?
@George Sheils: Why is it disrespectful? And to whom? The guy has the courage of his convictions to be open about his faith and his values as an individual. Why seek out a negative in this?
How’s he gonna give out all the communion?
Does he not speak English? He has had 5 years in the job to learn it.
@Shane Corry: Why would he bother? The majority language for Catholics is Spanish. I’d guess that Portuguese is second.
@Shane Corry: yes and he even spoke some Irish.
Hi can they say that the pope knows nothing at all about the mother and baby homes abuse it’s just another cover up
In other words the b is asking for to be allowed off scot free.
No pardon, no compensation, no jail time.
To hell with you you disgraceful excuse for a human being.
Apology accepted,now the abusers and those that aided them,covered up for them,must be handed over to the proper authority,otherwise this will go down as a PR exercise and nothing else,meaningless.
@Sean Murphy: aren’t you a great lad
He spoke publicly about forgiveness and seeking pardon but the key word missing in any of his addresses was SORRY. Asking for forgiveness and seeking pardons is not apologising it is just a way of trying to deflect attention from the fact that he cannot say the word sorry because that’s an admission of guilt and culpability which would open the flood gates of victims coming forward. The real number of victims will never be known
Should we accept this request for forgiveness as an admission of guilt ? And would all the supporters of the Catholic Church who post on this site to take example from their leader also like to beg for forgiveness for supporting that organisation despite knowing of it crimes ?
When are the criminals going to jail?
Apologise first and then ask for forgiveness. I’d expected a lot of this pope and it appears as though he was going to apologise but it seems those very important words – “The Catholic Church is deeply deeply sorry for the horror and shame imposed on so many women and children. We ask for forgiveness – to the Irish public and particularly to those victims of the RCC are of no consequence to this man.
This is even more insulting to ask God for forgiveness. Ask the victims for forgiveness !
I’m sick of never-ending whinging about the past. Times were tough. Parents smacked their children, Teachers whacked,or caned pupils at school. Boarding schools were a regime of hunger and more caning. Should all of us who suffered those things sue the Department of Education and the teacher unions.
Boys’ orphanages must have been pretty horrible. I was in a boys boarding school and that was no fun. Add to that the abuse of boys by men and the regime of detention and hunger and it’s pretty horrible.
Magdalen homes, I’m not so sure about. According to McAleese – the average stay was a few months. The girls that were left there for life can blame more than the nuns. The number to be redressed was estimated at 3,000 and
30,000 claimed and all got over €30,000. That’s over 1 billion which I think is a total scandal when we look at the present housing crisis. That campaign was pushed by relatives who will inherit it.
Mother and baby homes and irregular adoptions. Those were that standards of the time. In most cases it did’nt work out too badly. If you would like something different try being a Jew in Poland in 1940′s or an ordinary Russian anytime from 1914 to 1990. What happened here was nothing compared to the suffering in msot of EUrope during the 20th century
LGBT… I wish they would get real. I did’nt know what it meant until I was well into my 20′s and neither did anyone else. Look up the subject on Wiki.. Male sexual activity was a hanging offence – the last in 1832. After that it was an offence leading to a prison sentence. Blaming that Catholic Church for the status of gays is scape-goating an institution which can be blamed for everything without the risk of retaliation.
Asks for forgiveness.
Didn’t say sorry.
Down with this sort of thing.
Saying sorry does nothing!. Actions speak louder then words!. Catholic Church is a disgrace and I feel ashamed to be Irish this weekend.
@John Sadlier: he didn’t even say sorry. In the normal world, one apologises then asks for forgiveness. In Francis’ world it appears, you skip the first step. Also, someone would want to tell them this in RTE, they seem to think they’ve witnessed the second coming.
@John Sadlier: Definitely, Pope Francis can’t please everybody. He could flagellate himself in Opus Dei fashion whilst repeating Mea Maxima Culpa a thousand times and some would still demand more.
@John Sadlier: A bit of drama queen aren’t you? Get your head out from in between your butt cheeks.
@John Sadlier: The people who should say sorry are dead and gone. Digging up the past to get apologies and compensation from the present is a ridiculous characteristic of the present time. The politicians are more than happy to be the mouthpieces – it costs them nothing. The magdalen home survivors are fortunate to have live into the era of the welfare state which provides housing health and income. Their unpaid labour contributed to it, but why they should be embraced, cherished, compensated and all the rest of it is a mystery. I’ve seen people who were never in an institution, worked hard, raised families etc living far harder lives and old age.
As for the Tuam babies home – what’s all that about?. The death certs were on the for public records, it was’nt a secret. The burials were in some kind of tomb. It was sewage tank but I’ve never heard that it was’nt cleaned out or that it contains sludge or that babies were simply dropped in via the manhole cover.
The mortality rate was high, but it was high everywhere for childhood illnesses in the days before anti-biotics and vaccinations.
I ask for a pardon when I fart or belch .
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