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DUP MP IAN Paisley has held onto his seat in the House of Commons as a petition to unseat him fell 444 votes short.
Shortly after 1am, it was announced that the petition which needed 7,500 signatures to trigger a by-election had not gone successfully.
The outcome of Westminster’s first-ever recall petition was announced by Northern Ireland Chief Electoral Officer Virginia McVea.
The petition has not been successful.
The North Antrim MP was found by a parliament watchdog in July to have broken rules by not declaring two trips to Sri Lanka that were paid for by its government before lobbying on his behalf.
The chair of the Standards Committee, Sir Kevin Barron, said they had concluded Paisley was guilty of “serious misconduct”. The Speaker of the House, John Bercow, described it as “a regrettable state of affairs”.
The value of the trips, which included helicopter flights for his family, have been put at between £50,000-£100,000.
In a statement, the DUP said:
Mr Ian Paisley MP was suspended from membership of the party on 24th July 2018, by the Party Officers, following publication of the report of the House of Commons Committee on Standards and pending further investigation into his conduct. The internal processes surrounding these matters have been completed. On Tuesday 18th September Mr Paisley was readmitted to membership of the party following a suspension of fifty-seven days and upon re-admission he is subject to a number of conditions including a ban on holding office within the party for twelve months.
“The Party will be making no further comment on these matters.”
With reporting from Rónán Duffy
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Pictured against a People Before Profit propaganda backdrop – reads more like some managed news event from the good old USSR.
Says it all about the sorry state of journalism in this country.
@Brian Deane: The yes campaign and their allies in the media have an unrelenting desire to control the parameters of the debate and police the language people use.
@Paul Roche: Paul if your daughter asked for help with getting an abortion, what would you say to her?
@Seamus Morgan: the same thing I will be saying on May 25th, No because killing is never the solution to our problems in a humane society.
@Paul Roche: So you would deny your own daughter help with getting an abortion?
@Seamus Morgan:Trolls never have solutions.
@Francis Mc Carthy: Ha he’s gone all quiet now. Hahahaha
@Brian Deane: Political parties are entitled to back one side or the other in line with their membership’s wishes.
Are the No side not managing their message?
Bit of a nothing comment there Brian, and ignoring important stories from women who have had the experience.
@Paul Roche: Speaking of stupid, the photo you stole to use on your half hour old facebook account was easily traceable
@Paul Roche: Glad I’m not your daughter
@Paul Roche: I’d class denying your own flesh and blood help with her abortion as stupid boyo. Cruel as well. Paul Roche’s daugher(s), if you are reading this, get out now. He would literally force you to endure an unwanted pregnancy, perhaps even boot you from the family home. Make arrangements to leave now before its too late.
@Brian Deane: nothing more needs to be said.
@El Diego: Nah, he’s a disgrace.
@Paul Roche: rather than controlling women you mean? Wow, wow, wow, you really do not get irony do you.
@Seamus Morgan: so abortion is the only solution to an unwanted pregnancy? Get a grip.. let me give you an alternative outcome… as a father if my daughter came home at 16 pregnant I would be distraught… however I would support her and reassure her that she will get all the help possible if she chooses to adopt or decides to keep the baby. Are you serious that you believe I would be a bad father because I don’t support the option of abortion? At 16 a pregnant daughter is evidently a crisis I wouldn’t want.. using your logic I could simply kill her.. after all her situation is unwanted and I don’t have any other option!
@Alan: and if she wanted to procure an abortion,what then ?
@Alan: @Alan: Yeah, if your daughter wanted an abortion and you refused to help her, yes, you would be a bad father. And what you chillingly describe there, is the murder of your own daughter. Abortion is the removal of an unwanted/dangerous fetus. Get help.
@Alan: well said Alan & Paul Roche – if I was a daughter I would rather loving support instead of being forced into having an abortion !
@fianna1: ^^^^ mansplaining
@Paul Roche: If the yes vote is carried and the present situation in hospitals waiting lists people waiting for operations ,the emergencey situating at hospitals with ambulances backing up this has not been thought out by the government,and then there is the cost,the government want to give out free condoms and pay for the abortions,and they claim there is no money available for nurses to get a deacent wage and working conditions where is this money going to come from,they will but an extra burden on the workers and increase taxes,there are thousands of people without a place to call home evictions from existing homes children living in hotel rooms missing school and education and now LEO has decided if the no vote is successful,anyone who goes for an abortion or assists in procuring an abortion will be jailed for 14 years,is this his so called concern for women,if he provided proper facilities for women in the first place there would be no need for his threats,Is he afraid of the no vote or is he more concerned at loosing the brown envelope,He says there will be no crack at a second referendum if the yes vote is defeated but he should know that there was another referendum and the people said no,seems his advisers are not doing their job of informing him of past events,how much are they been paid just asking
@Seamus Morgan: You would be proud to help your daughter in these circumstances? But not help your grandchild. All we hear is that it has to be permitted for cases of rape and FFA, but these two cases are all about the mental health of the woman, just like the 98% of cases in England.
@Paul Roche: would you disown her if she had one? Physically stop her traveling? Or just stand by and let her go through it by herself?
@fianna1: there was no force in the proposed scenario. The question was if fake account’s fake account daughter came to him looking for help to get an abortion what would fake account do
Constant propaganda from journal. Can we have a Pro Life article for once this year?
Harris and Leo should have just legislated for the hard cases but they chose a more liberal regime than the UK so I will be voting NO….
@Salubrious: Delighted for you.Now i can go back to yawning..
@Salubrious:
Exactly how many AGs have to say that the hard cases can’t be legislated for, even with an amandment to the constitution, before you believe them?
@Salubrious: check out theliberal .ie ..More your speed over there.
@Salubrious: in fairness the pro abortion propaganda machine has to work overtime now to attempt to repair the damage caused by the CB fiasco. The Journal will be pumping out articles on a conveyor belt until polling day now.
@Salubrious: why they need to lie? The “regime” in Ireland is far more conservative than the UK and is on the conservative side of the EU too.
@Salubrious: Sure let them off; the agenda of their little campaign is blatantly obvious to all but to the willfully blind,
@Thomas Francis: It might be a “little campaign” in terms of spending power in comparison to LoveBoats and I-OWN-YA but it still has more support from voters in the polls. That must hurt. Can’t wait until the 26th
@Francis Mc Carthy: Great debating there Francis, just Mock him for his beliefs and use “yawn” for your lack of intellect.
@Gary: His arguments as deserving of mockery..
@Salubrious: what’s your problem with someone having and abortion?
It’s not about politics, if you’re voting against a certain party’s view you should reevaluate your point of view.
@Salubrious: lies vote yes
@Salubrious: it’s impossible to legislate for the hard cases. This is fact. By the time a rape gets through the courts it’s too late to abort. Every legal person even in the No side says this so please don’t make suggestions that have no merit
@Salubrious: why? It’s repetitive, emotive and irrational. Makes for a boring read
@Salubrious: plenty of them: dead woman kept on life support for an unviable fetus, woman let die of sepsis not to abort an unviable fetus, woman and her fetus died of cancer not to cause harm to the unviable fetus, raped girl stopped from traveling for abortion, woman denied abortion and after months forced a C section. Those are the high profile pro life stories, there are many more we never hear about.
I find the no campaign factual and the yes campaign sanctimonious but I’m still undecided.
@Cathal: Think you got that backwards CAthal.
Can you repeat some of the facts relevant to the Referendum that the No side have told you?
@Cathal: Factual? Babies can yawn at 12 weeks, did you see that poster? FYI the definition of a yawn is “A yawn is a reflex consisting of the simultaneous inhalation of air and the stretching of the eardrums, followed by an exhalation of breath”
There’s no air in the womb, so I ask you, how can that be factual?
@Bearded Grump: your probably not going to read this but here goes..
Fetal Yawning – baillement.com
PDFwww.baillement.com › recherche › fetal_…
@Salubrious: at 12 weeks that is a load of nonsense..
@Cathal: I was pregnant at 18. I had a job but was broken up with my boyfriend. I couldn’t even contemplate abortion. That embryo is now 18 years old and doing the leaving cert. She has blonde hair, blue eyes, she is full of life and energy. Has loads of friends, has had her heart broken, has had fights and make ups, is going on her first holiday without her parents in July (myself and her dad got back together and he moved in with me when she was 4, she has 2 full siblings). She has been to Africa, Switzerland, America, England, Spain, Mallorca, lanzarote and Italy. She has a health condition and has nearly died on us a couple of times, but carries on. Her friends are the best. She is full of ambition and wants to study chemistry and biology at university.
@Lily: That’s great, however that was YOUR choice, nobody made it for you or took away any other options you may have had. All that’s being asked of you is that you do the same for others, there is no guarantee they will or will not take it, just as you didn’t. Choice, that’s all.
@Lily: So you feel your choice was right for you – fine.
But it’s not right for everyone.
You have 8 days to convince the majority of people here that your choice suits every other woman in the state.
@Danny Rafferty:
You say choice, but in reality it was living up to my responsibilities, putting the unborns future life above my own. It (she) deserved a right to life, to be given a chance at life. Even though I didn’t earn much and was renting an apartment. When she was 7 I bought a house, when she was 16 I bought myself a new car, these things didn’t seem like possibilities when I was pregnant. Just because you’re pregnant and young doesn’t mean you’ll be sponging off the state for life. Life is what you make it and you can still make it with a baby in tow.
@Lily: so effectively because you made a choice and were happy with it, nobody else should ever be allowed to make a different choice.
Because that’s the ‘no’ argument in a nutshell. They don’t approve so they want to force their opinions on everybody else.
As someone once pointed out (in an abortion article on here some time age) I would receive more applause and recognition had I aborted her and shouted it from the rooftops.
@Danny Rafferty: Fair play to you Lily, I was in a similar boat and my little one is fourteen. They might be our children but we don’t own them, they belong to themselves, they are seperate lives, lives to be valued and loved even inutero.
@Lily: I know a women who got pregnant and suspected her boyfriend tampered with condoms. She decided to have the baby and then later moved in with the boyfriend. Her boyfriend started to be more and more controlling but because of the baby she tried to work it out. Eventually he started beating her and she saw sense and moved out. The baby grew up and became a big strong man. He then beat her up so badly she walks with a stick now and he is in prison. See it doesn’t always work out.
@Lily: this story is relevant how?
@Rachel O’ Meara: Exactly Rachel xx
@Rachel O’ Meara: what about Irish women in a different boat (heading to the UK)?
@Stephen Adam: if you don’t see the relevance, you are blinded by your misguided moral compass.
@Francis Mc Carthy: did Dr ‘back to school Peter” Boylan tell you that Francis. He struggled badly with that one himself on CB. I’d almost trust your medical definitions over his at this stage and you don’t even believe that life exists in the womb so that’s saying something.
@Lily: isn’t that what Brid Smith did?
@Guy Incognito: like having the balls to use the word abortion on their posters? Find me a “yes” poster with the word abortion. You won’t. It’s a dirty word and quite right too. The first few posts above have a serious bullying feel to them. Some of the same auld people but some new names also. This whole issue has become severely decisive and argumentative. And the journal also have a lot to answer for. Can’t scrape together 1 positive vote no article! Shameful.
@Rachel O’ Meara: “similar boat” was it the James Joyce to Holyhead or the Stena Line to Fishguard, because they will continue to take Irish women to Britain for abortions if the answer is No. you can argue all you like about the CHOICE you made and we’re indeed entitled to, but there is abortion in Ireland, there was today and every day in the ports and departure lounges of every international travel hub.
@Kal Ipers: I know a woman who was in an abusive relationship, she was forced to get an abortion twice, then he dumped her and got himself a new girlfriend, the new girlfriend became pregnant and he wanted her to also get an abortion but she refused and had the baby, he now swans around claiming to be the best dad in the world, his first girlfriend was left with years of therapy trying to get over the two abortions she had, she feels immensely guilty and sad that she chose her relationship over the lives of her children, she regrets her abortions and wishes she never had them.
@Lily: well done.
@Lily: absolutely lovely story Lily and thanks for sharing. Who knew something so good could come from not having an abortion folks, eh! VOTE NO
@El Diego:Hi Sean :) A foetus at 12 weeks is NON VIABLE <- and that was the point that Dr Boylan was trying to put across..:)
@Rachel O’ Meara: sanctimonious or what
@Bearded Grump: Well also there’s no air in the womb at 8.5 months either; what would you suggest is then acceptable ? A lunch break visit to the ‘doctor’.
A picture/video tell it all really – if you dare view.
https://www.babycenter.com/6_your-pregnancy-12-weeks_1101.bc
@Francis Mc Carthy:
Who cares what his opinion is ? What no one can deny is that the unborn baby/foetus is a growing human life.
To abort it is to murder a developing human. How is that complicated ?
If you came up from a dive too quickly you too would be NON VIABLE, absent a decompression tank. So, would you elect to stay in decompression as advised, or mooch off to meet your SU mates in Maynooth ?
For illustration :
https://www.babycenter.com/6_your-pregnancy-12-weeks_1101.bc
@Thomas Francis: Are you replying to a comment I didn’t make or something? I’m not sure what your point is. The guy says the no side were factual, I pointed out that was incorrect. What exactly are you trying to say?
@Lily: good on ya Lily ! Proud Mum
@Lily: I too had my daughter very young. I didn’t contemplate abortion either even though I didnt have a stable environment to bring her into at the time. She is now 15 years old and also deals with a long term health condition. She is full of ambition like your daughter and wants to study physics in college. I will be voting YES for her sake, and every other woman in this country, to ensure if she is ever in a situation where she feels she needs to have an abortion, for whatever reason, that it will be safe, in her own country and with her family by her side to support her.
@Rachel O’ Meara: that’s terrible but she should have left him. Maybe before the first one but certainly after it if they didn’t want the same things in life. Coerced would be the word I would have used. I sincerely hope she has a happy future.
@happinessnow: Hey Bill.
@Paul Fahey: It’s an expression. I made no choice as choice doesn’t enter into it, contraception failed and from that moment on it was my responsibility to look after it. I stepped up to the plate and even though I didn’t have a pot to pi*s in at the time I made it work because that’s what responsible people do.
@EDun: I do too, nothing would make me happier for her.
@Thomas Francis: Oh stop with your emotional hogwash to me as it doesn’t work..
I never denied that a growing embryo is a human life
“To abort it is to murder a developing human. How is that complicated ?”
Murder is strictly a ‘legal’ term – where it is the ‘unlawful’ ‘premeditated’ killing of one human being on another human being <- fact
Explain to a judge in a court of law as to how it is 'premeditated ? ( i haven't even got to the human being part :) )
@Rachel O’ Meara: you made a choice, simple, stop trying to deny the fact.
@Paul Fahey: I made a choice to have sex, I didn’t make a choice to grow another human, don’t get me wrong I’m very glad my body did but I don’t have control over a natural biological process.
@Lily: that’s great for you.
I don’t know anyone who is pro-abortion but could you possibly put yourself in the shoes of someone who doesn’t want to go through a pregnancy where FFA is involved. I think they should be allowed an abortion.
Good on you Lilly, a wonderful child is worth a little sacrifice
@Ciaran O Shea:
Unfortunately this isn’t just for hard cases, it will be a free for all, abortion on demand. If it was just for hard cases I would vote yes. But it isn’t.
@Lily: well said Lily, Fair play to you.im sure she is the best thing ever! Lovely story. That’s the sort of stories the journal should be documenting..
@Lily: well said I have no problem people using their right to vote yes might not agree, but you are so right about people on the yes side and their almost obsession with praising women who have had an abortion. They say they care for the woman but at the same time a lot of them will be on another journal article bad mouthing a single mother.
@David Clarke: I think it is support more than praise David. These women have felt isolated, scared and ashamed by the nature of doing something which is illegal in Ireland. These people are supporting their decision. Or maybe they are praising them for making a difficult choice and taking a difficult journey, that is also valid. There are plenty of stories on the ‘in her shoes’ Facebook page of women who kept their pregnancies, by choice, and who are also praised and supported.
@Lily: My mam got pregnant with me when she was in school and chose to have me. She didn’t have it easy either and she said she doesn’t regret her choice either. However, that was her choice to have me and that may not be another woman’s choice. You because you chose to give birth doesn’t mean you have the right to make that choice for another woman.
As expected, more lecturing from the yes side
Two brave women who should be applauded for their honesty. Their stories are not “hard” cases, but they are typical crisis pregnancies and in today’s civil society, women such as these should be given the help they need at home.
@Paul Roche: she now has two beautiful children.That is how abortion brings new life into the world..
@Paul Roche: So if a 12 year old gets pregnant after sleeping with her 13 year old boyfriend, should she be forced to have the baby or would you be happy to ship her overseas so we don’t have to muddy our hands?
@Brian Deane: “no reason at all”. Every single woman who has an abortion has a reason. Her reason may not be palatable to you, but it’s none of your business.
@Brian Deane:”97% of UK abortions are not hard cases” <- once again,i would love to see your credible source for this ?
@Francis Mc Carthy: I think even Dr. Joseph Mengele would struggle with the logic of that…..no doubt you’re advice for the unborn is ‘stay lucky’.
@Brian Deane: I don’t think an embryo or fetus is capable of taking advice.
@Brian Deane: i don’t give any advice to the “unborn” as that would be mad Ted..
At 16 years of age,she wasn’t mentally/physically ready to be a parent So, because of terminating that pregnancy at 16,she then was able to do whatever she wanted in life..and when she ‘was’ ready to be a parent, she went on to have two beautiful children..this is how abortion saved her life but also helped to create two new ones..
@Brian Deane: And the 8th does what Brian.
Fails 12 times a day.
Do you carry a bucket of sand with you and then take your head out to post comments on this site?
@Francis Mc Carthy: Do you realise that every child is unique. The genetic make up of each and every person on this planet is unique. That’s what makes a baby so special. If a baby is aborted it’s gone forever, having a new baby will not replace him or her.
@Paul Roche: Paul hiding behind a fake Facebook account is not brave. What are you scared of, if you honestly think you are right in your beliefs?
@Jenni Harrison: well it is though. ISIS terrorists blow innocent people up but it’s nobody’s business because they have a reason? Ending life is just wrong.
@Jonathan: it will if you view babies as commodities and that’s what it comes down to unfortunately, we are lowering our life values. It was once precious but is now disposable on a whim, like any other commodity.
@Jonathan:every child is BORN..Babies aren’t aborted..embryos and foetuses are…She is as happy as larry with her two beautiful BORN unique children :-)
@Jenni Harrison: I don’t mind that those women had abortions but I don’t like that they’re being called brave. Ultimately they did what suited them, because it suited them. When I think of my heroes they did things that they knew would likely harm them, for the greater good. Because of the month that’s in it, let’s take James Connolly and the Red Army for examples. The last thing they would have ever said was “my body my choice”
@Francis Mc Carthy: errm what ???
@SC: in my opinion it takes courage to make any life changing decision. Abortion isn’t necessarily the easy option.
@El Diego: blows innocent “people” up… people not foetuses
@fianna1: errrrrrm that ??????
@Jenni Harrison: The reason they did it was because they judged it to be the easier option for them, that would ultimately yield the most benefit for them. I took the easier option many times in my life. For example I didn’t stand up for people who were bullied in school. That was difficult because my conscience weighed on me, but it was not brave and I am not proud of it.
Brave ladies to share their stories, I now await the holier than thou crowd to appear and belittle the difficult choices they had to make.
@charlotte quay: As pointed out by another regular, you stole that photo from a canadian medical website for your 2 day old twitter account
Another No vote whackamole account. Guys, if you cop them, post the info.
@charlotte quay: That’s not very Christian of you ‘charlotte’, can we assume from your comment that in addition to hating Irish women you also hate the Irish unemployed?
@A Piece of Chalk: Typical yes voter. You fabricate and try to pass off your lie as fact.
@charlotte quay: what’s it got to do with you, it’s not your life and we are all entitled to live our own lives as we see fit, so get a grip
@charlotte quay: nice new account,pet.
@charlotte quay: “Typical yes voter. You fabricate and try to pass off your lie as fact.” HAHA! Think you mixed up yes with no there “Charlotte”
This angst stuff is beside the point, the role of law and order is to protect life and not an entitlement vehicle so the vote next week is not to decide whether somebody decides to end life of a developing child in the womb, it is whether an electorate wants to hand decisions over to interest groups who are looking for legal entitlements through sympathy.
The vote next week is to prevent the law from becoming an entitlement vehicle and so diminished that it no longer protects the most inviolate principle that life cannot be ended for no reason through willful intent. It is and always has been a legal issue.;
@Gkell1: “This angst stuff ” … trivialising a woman’s feelings much there “dear”?
@Gkell1: ‘This angst stuff is beside the point’
You don’t get to set the point. Have you personally experienced a crisis pregnancy?
Thanks for the extra few votes your post just gave the Yes campaign.
@Gkell1: You were dismissing any rule of law that didn’t comply with your views last week. Which is it?
If you’re going to copy and paste all the time you won’t remember what you’re doing. Another thing, you never answer. What qualifications do you have to keep banging on about ‘the rule of law’, you’re not a solicitor, you’re a layman, just like everyone else here, well, most people.
@Jenni Harrison: Wise up my dear, the core issue is to maintain willful intent to end life on this island for no reason as neither an entitlement nor a right. A system of law and order is humane when it is impartial in event of accidental death where no willful intent is involved (compassionate medical grounds) as opposed to willful intent to end life for no reason (blanket repeal).
The law recognises that you may take the life of a pedestrain by accident and no punitive measures are necessary whereas taking the life of a pedestrian for no reason other than choosing to is met rightfully with severe punishment as it is neither a right or an entitlement. The law is a passive entity for those who don’t use it in their creative and productive day to day existence but once it becomes an entitlement vehicle to end life in society then that society is into the poison of an entitlement/victim dynamic.
@Jed I. Knight: “You were dismissing any rule of law that didn’t comply with your views last week. Which is it?”
The vote creates a new type of person next week – one who is willing to throw away their responsibilities as citizens to politicians and interest groups. Only those who announce they are not going to vote are worse but both are effectively unable to be considerate with adults question that are not going to be asked. After next week your influence becomes that of a spectator and not a citizen whereas the No vote sends the Government the proper message that important decisions on the direction of society are in the hands of the electorate and not interest groups.
@Gkell1: ‘one who is willing to throw away their responsibilities’
There you have it ladies, gerald the catholic fundamentalist knows your responsibilities for you, probably to operate as brood mares for his church.
@Gkell1: get a grip
@The Risen: I am a Christian and at the heart of Christianity is the concept that the law is a passive entity for productive and creative people but it is a scourge for those who would disrupt a balanced society. Once the law becomes a dead weight on society by forcing citizens into the dictates of interest or advocacy groups then its citizens suffer and that is what Christ drew attention to -
“I do not set aside the grace of God, for if a person’s humanity (head and heart) could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!” Paul
The Catholic Church forgot that Christian principle for a number of centuries but for each individual Christian social/political structures weighing too heavily on individual heartfelt principles is a death to a balanced society.
@Gkell1: You’re gas craic all together! Of course you can’t wilfully kill a pedestrian! But you also can’t compare a pedestrian to a foetus. One is viable outside the womb, the other isn’t. One has feelings, the other doesn’t. One actually has a real life with people who love him / her, the other doesn’t.
Do you really not understand that just because women will be “entitled” to have an abortion is she requires one, that not every pregnant woman is suddenly going to be queuing up for one!
@The Risen: the socialist public servant who thinks that nobody should have responsibility for anything and everything should be free, in the workers’ case courtesy of their blackmailing union.
@Jenni Harrison: ” You’re gas craic all together! Of course you can’t wilfully kill a pedestrian! But you also can’t compare a pedestrian to a foetus. ”
It all reduces to dehumanising language once undeveloped adults cannot deal with the legal question on willful intent to end life for no reason up to 12 weeks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_7vyUUKM2s
That cheerful video is aimed at people who value life and thoroughly enjoyable in researching the whole matter as a nature documentary and life on the planet. The pro-entitlement people are so wrapped up in themselves that they can’t see a wider picture where they are being denied nothing but some other human being is.
@Gkell1: Well said.
My fear is that we’re now battling for the soul of this country, and if we succumb to this onslaught the ‘protective hand’ will be lifted, and we’ll become strangers in a strange land.
@Thomas Francis: Thankfully Thomas Francis there are still a lot of decent people on this island who value life enough and reason clearly enough to separate compassionate concerns from the entitlement concerns of advocacy groups who will celebrate but their supporters can’t celebrate in public because the ending of life happens behind closed doors.
The tendency of pro-entitlement is to attack individuals rather than the reasoning they present but perhaps when the threat of jail time in event of a No vote for a section of the electorate is made worse by a death entitlement for a ‘yes’ vote. A spiritual person finds inspiration where nobody else can but the law itself offers only respect for its value in protecting life on this island and that may change next week when it becomes something else.
Thanks again for your comments and really appreciated.
@Gkell1: vote yes
@Gkell1: Gerald, I very much doubt you’ll answer this honestly but here goes. If a 13 year old young girl was raped and pregnant, would you permit her to have an abortion or force her to carry the pregnancy to term, maybe even have a cesarean section? Yes or no, nothing else?
This isn’t “social”, to use such a term trivialises what these women, and let’s be honest, their families too, went through. I know what we believe defines a “hard case”, however I can’t imagine what must be a “soft case”, there are no such things.
I applaud these ladies for having the courage to speak about their experience, what they went through was difficult, it was hard. Thank you.
What of the morning after pill where is the common sense here? we do not live in the 60s woman have more choices now than ever, the morning after pill is not similar to an abortion pill, do the research. The “its not the right time for me” or “my body my choice” we are not talking about designer wear as appose to high street clothing we are talking about an “unborn child” which needs YOUR voice to represent its choice to live. I was pro choice years back until I saw the harsh reality of the act of abortion and what was to follow onces its legalised. I now see the shocking statistics in the UK where 38% of of all abortions are carried out on women having 1 or more abortions and a higher % are medical abortions, is this health care? or the intentional ending of unborn human life.
@Elizabeth Hourihane: MAPs are only effective within 24-72 hours of having sex. Unless you think women should take it as a matter of course when sexually active which would be dangerous to women and against medical advice
@Karen Wellington: It’s been a particularly sick and vile development that Maria Steen of the Iona Institute slyly introduced the term ‘social abortion’ into the Referendum debate on Claire Byrne. She was advised to use this term by Iona’s PR minders from America, it really shows the contempt and lack of compassion Steen and Iona have for Irish women.
@Elizabeth Hourihane: it’s both…. intentional ending of an unborn life by people who feel they aren’t fit to be parents for medical, financial or very personal circumstances. Most are down to failed contraception to begin with.
@Elizabeth Hourihane: 1) Those ‘repeat abortion’ statistics go back over 40 years 2) How many are done for a woman that was raped at 15 and had an FFA abortion in her 30′s ..3) How many were carried out for a woman having multiple FFA pregnancies …4)Did you know that the Scottish government did a study on ‘repeat abortions’ and what they found was that 80% of the women were using protections ?
In the the majority of repeat abortions , there would be a gap of five years before the woman ended up pregnant again…
Yes campaign seems to be in a crisis
@Tim Brennan: really, in your head maybe.
@Tim Brennan: Yes the are! Now they are left with the pathetic looser Simon Harris to pedal their crass agenda in Tuesday night debate? Good look with that!
Long-time listener, first time caller. As a bloke, raised by strong Catholic parents and having four great kids of my own, I was leaning to voting no. This is notwithstanding the fact that I’ve had unfortunately, close and loved family members, who’ve had to face a fatal fetal abnormality which forced them to go to the UK. The problem with this debate is that both sides feel that they have morality on their side. I’ve had to do some soul searching about this subject. Reading these stories and I will disclose that I know as a close friend of whom I didn’t know their story, I’ve been forced to empathise with what a struggle this must be to a woman who doesn’t have the means or opportunities available to others to go through with a pregnancy. If I was truly honest with myself and put myself in their shoes, I probably would have taken the same action. I’m sure that no-one is excited by the prospect of abortion and feels it a traumatic action to take, but on hard reflection, they should be trusted to do it given all the circumstances that they have to deal with. The key learning for me is to use empathy and not ideology.
Whatever your opinions on tbe issue, the fact remains that it’s a decision that can only & should only be decided by the individuals involved. Nobody else has any right to deny them that choice. You don’t have to agree with it & whatever you think of it, you’re perfectly free to think it, I’m not saying otherwise but just because it isn’t right by you doesn’t mean you have the right to decide it wouldn’t be right for someone else. If it’s going to happen, which it still will no matter the outcome, you just have to find a way to make peace with it. NO vote wins, women who plan on having an abortion will still end up travelling for them. YES vote wins, those same women will be able to get them done here. It’s one of the reasons I’m voting yes. Either way, it’s still going to happen.
@Keith McDonagh:
The fundamental issue is whether the unborn have rights also.
If you believe that they should, the it’s absolutely everyone’s business.
This Government and the Yes campaign in my view,have cynically tried to use very tragic cases to try & guilt compassionate people into voting their way. They could have offered another option to re-write the amendment to allow for these tragic cases and I believe the majority would vote in favour.
Whichever way people vote, withthe current proposal, there will be no winners.
I think there are No voters because they say its “murder” and and no voters who are happy with the status quo of shipping abroad the issue while keeping the moral high ground.
If the 8th is saved by them on the basis of their arguments ( mainly I hear its murder) being made are validated by referendum then it will have to follow that legislation to prevent women from travelling be introduced and stiff punishments for online pills.
We will end up with a draconian system and one that will create untold misery.
Be careful what you wish for.
@Shayno O’Donnchadha: there are much more who would vote for Repeal but for the on demand provision. That’s why the gap is closing.
you’re obsessed with the “abortion on demand” ,Sean..is it the way that you don’t like women terminating their unwanted pregnancies,just because they had consensual sex with their long term partners ? Is that it ? wow!
Irish people are behind the curve, medical innovations can determine a boy or girl at 7 weeks through non invasive blood tests of the mother so a 5 week window opens up where ‘no reason’ translates into gender selection with developing girls being the most vulnerable.
https://www.parents.com/health/parents-news-now/new-blood-test-can-tell-fetal-gender-at-7-weeks/
For less considerate people, this element is not simply there as they are not driven by a balance of heart and head but by a conviction that one section of society is being denied something at the expense of another life.
@Gkell1:
Will gender tests still be available after the 25th regardless of the referendum result?
Will abortion pills still be imported after the 25th regardless of the referendum result?
Your best argument is a non argument
@Change Everything: Exactly, as if these imaginary women geralds dreaming up will, in the event of a No vote, go ‘well I was going to order an abortion pill because I don’t want a girl, but seeing as though there was a no vote…..’
It’s actually comical how he thinks….
@The Risen: They knew this about 6 years ago in the States -
“A simple blood test that can determine a baby’s sex as early as seven weeks into pregnancy is highly accurate if used correctly, a finding that experts say is likely to lead to more widespread use by parents concerned about gender-linked diseases, those who are merely curious and people considering the more ethically controversial step of selecting the sex of their children.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/health/10birth.html?_r=1
People cruel enough to dehumanise a developing child in the womb will have absolutely no problem with its natural extension of gender selection.
You cannot dehumanise what is human, the only thing is that you have dehumanised yourselves.
To hear the leader of your party demand that you man-up must be the sorriest moment on television as maybe she does know her audience as under developed adults.
@Gkell1: ‘Changed everything’ just minced your best argument, the fact you didn’t reply to him/her to back your argument up shows how weak it was.
F- must try harder
@The Risen: Considering your leader demands that you to ‘man-up’ I would say she knows a drone among her followers when she sees one. The Government stitched together so many parts from so many different places that the scheme is a frankenstein’s monster or a dancing corpse but those with head and heart can see how it was all a dumb attempt to use medical concerns as a trojan horse for willful intent to end life for social excuses for the simple reason it is an assault to law and order and the relationship of the law to society.
@Gkell1: The Risen is under orders to vote Yes just like the rest of his comrades.
@El Diego: I think a lot of Sinn Fein supporters must have had their heads melted once their leader let that demand out and very hard to take those who went along with the demand as capable of having individual freedoms which are always healthy. To be fair I generally stay clear of politics as they normally have their own rules among themselves but playing politics with the electorate sure isn’t compassionate with threats and demands.
I think the politicians took the electorate for granted on this one.
@Change Everything: ” Will gender tests still be available after the 25th regardless of the referendum result?”
This is for those who are considerate.
https://www.easydna.ie/baby-gender-test/
The medical certainty of boy or girl at 2 months in the womb would normally prohibit any attempt to dehumanise but mob convictions don’t register these things in general or in detail. The arguments over when life begins is a distraction as that is a continuum in society but when is a boy or girl not a human being is legally precise at 7 weeks hence comes under the protection all humans have.
“THE 1 AMEN”
No sperm. No pregnancy. No abortion nessacary. This shound be campaigned. A pill of some sort to controlled sperm until the time is right. This is where it starts this is where it should finish. Police mens sperm. A Lot less problems. No effencie guys.
@Thomas Francis: cop on.
@Thomas Francis: did I say castration? ?? I know there is a huge percentage of men out there who would be willing to help with this. For the unborn child, for the woman and the men, for the sake of humanity. It shouldn’t ever come to this.. and as for you ..stop talking ..your just another problem and add to this disgrace. Just keep going around in circuls there why don’t you. The only answer to this is controlling pregnancies in some way. Abortion is here now, it shouldn’t be in the future.
@Lilly white: fair point Lily, what’s good for the hen is good for the cock!
@Paul Fahey: Thank you!
Social Abortion is being used by the no campaign as an accusation, to imply that women are meeting for a few drinks, some snacks and planning their trip to have an abortion for some trivial reason.
The term social actually refers to society as a whole, and how we function and interact with each other and address everyone’s diverse individual needs, as in social inclusion, social welfare, social skills, “Social Abortion” would more accurately represent a response by society, which is inculsive and respects the individual rights of women, rather than demonising, criminalising isolating them as is the case currently under the 8th ammendment.
A social response should look at the reality of 3500 women having to leave ireland every year, to access abortions sevices for 3500 different reasons.
@David Van-Standen: you got it there in a nutshell
@David Van-Standen: “Social Abortion” would more accurately represent a response by society, which is inculsive and respects the individual rights of women, rather than demonising, criminalising isolating them as is the case currently under the 8th ammendment.”
Ending the life of a developing life in the womb is an extreme form of social exclusion and the Irish same gender marriage vote awakened other countries to the difference between ‘my choice/my body’ and great movements for social inclusion hence the polarisation of Irish society -
“The Obergefell decision legalizing same-sex marriage in every state was also sweeping. It has produced almost no political reaction. The contrast to Roe could hardly be starker. And the explanation is rather simple: All the great civil rights movements have been movements of inclusion…..The abortion rights movement, in contrast, is a movement of autonomy. Its primary appeal is to individual choice, not social inclusion. And the choice it elevates seems (to some people) in tension with the principle of inclusion.” Washington Post
Think of pro-entitlement as not what you can do for your country but what your country can do for interest groups,after all, you are basically throwing away your influences as a citizen next week to become a spectator in society.
@Gkell1: On the contrary, there is nothing more socially inclusive than finally extending to women their full rights of equality, including at last the same level of body autonomy which men have always been able to take for granted.
By advocating the continued treatment of women as vessels or walking incubators rather than equal individual citizens, the state and law is continuing to perpetrate discrimination against women.
Now if certain sections or groups wish to continue to view women on this derogatory way, that is their prerogative, but its just not good enough for our constitution to enshire this discrimination against any of our citizens and before you go there citizenship starts at birth.
The complete irony of People before Profit telling the stories of people who gave money to billion dollar organisations such as Marie Stopes and PlannedParenthood is lost on me, maybe RichBoy and his colleagues could rename themselves Profit before (Unborn)People …
If you choose to abort a child then you need to accept the consequences and not ask people who believe this is wrong to keep their mouth shut
@Geoff Murphy: what’s it got to do with you, your not living these woman’s lives
@Geoff Murphy:
I agree. I’m sick of couples who traveled to England to have their unborn baby killed and then wine in public because they had to travel. Oh the inconvenience of it all! What about the innocent lives you took! FFS!
@happinessnow: I have a vote so it’s everything got to do with me and all other voters despite which side we lean on
anyone else getting the the how offensive from 1to 10 thing come up as you write a comment
@Elvis Polkasalad: yep, very annoying
@Elvis Polkasalad: First time I’ve every liked a comment from you! Lol! Yeah it’s very annoying. This comment is 4.8/10 toxic! Sorry for any offence!
@Jenni Harrison: it’s annoying the bejaysus out of him because he has multiple accounts on the go here :-)
@Jenni Harrison: i am a nice Single man really, not great with words and spellings but most of what i say is from the heart, why would i take offence
@Francis Mc Carthy: LOL , now come on francis , with my bad spelling and all , i would be spotted easily, theres only 1 Elvis account i promise
@paddlingAlong: what happens if you hit the 10 , i,m sure i,ll find out with the months thats in it
@Elvis Polkasalad: it is annoying,though :)
@Francis Mc Carthy: are you male or female? i think your female
@Elvis Polkasalad: Are you chatting Francis up?! FYI – flirting leads to dating which leads to s*x which sadly sometimes leads to an unwanted pregnancy, so be careful!
@Francis Mc Carthy: oh ho ho. Multiple accounts Francis!!! How many do you have now, 16 is it at last count????
@El Diego:Hi Sean xoxoxoxo
@Jenni Harrison Well i am Single, Francis wouldnt be able for me , {intelectualy speaking } but serously i was just trying to figure out if she is a she or a he,
@Elvis Polkasalad:
Francis =he
FrancEs = she
Con Murphy = he
Mary Murphy=he
@Elvis Polkasalad: When I first saw it I actually thought I’d accidentally downloaded some weird add-on or accessed some superuser version of the journal that flags comments for potential deletion. We might disagree on the abortion issue but I’d say that that particular feature should be aborted post haste…
@Vigo The Carpathian: i thought it was just happening to me ,and the 1-10 was a warning for me
@Francis Mc Carthy: so you are a woman ,i knew it
@Elvis Polkasalad: haha
@Elvis Polkasalad: Yes, all the time lol.
It is about shaming women and making sure they experience all those “consequences” of ever enjoying sex. Never been about abortion. It’s always been about keeping the right wing “moral” intact as they see it is vanishing with every single day. Contraception, divorce, gay marriage and so much more – those people just cant take progress as it comes, they need to fight it, they need to place their moral compass on every person. Women seem a light target for this. How will a woman vote against her own well being? Well, there was a reason Americans came over in the 70s to spread their vile anti choice agenda, it is resonating in people’s head until this day. But American women are fine, Irish women? Much to question.This amendment will be gone, if not now than in another 10 years. How many times did the country run the divorce referendum? Give the right wing control zealots a chance, we would all be in the kitchen with 10 kids per lifetime and with no way out of unsuccessful marriages whereas the rest of Europe would at a different level.
Yet more examples of abortion as a life style choice. Their kids are lucky they weren’t conceived at any inconvenient time or they would have been aborted as well.
@Michael Duckster: and it’s your business because?
France has what they call “social abortion,”, Switzerland, Sweden, Germany, UK, Italy, Spain, well all developed countries in Europe, except Ireland.
If you think they are doing something “immoral” and something wrong, take a look at the anti-abortion club that the No side wants to keep Ireland in. I wouldn’t be delighted to be part of that club, I want to be out, they have never been known to respect women. If you have a crisis pregnancy, no one from the yes or no side will be by you, but a Yes vote will let you make the correct decision for your future whereas a No vote will leave you alone in your suffering with no choice (you might take the boat – thats the No side’s preferred choice).
Here you go, the absolute “moral” club of countries that ban abortion because they “respect” life (as if the French don’t) – Yes, Ireland is there too.
Afghanistan, Andorra, Angola, Antigua & Barbuda, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Central African Republic, Chile, Congo, Cote D’Ivoire, Dem. Rep. of Congo
Dominica, Dominican Republic, Egypt, El Salvador, Gabon, Guatemala, Guinea-Bissau
Haiti, Honduras, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Kiribati, Laos, Lebanon, Libya, Madagascar
Malawi, Mali, Malta, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Mexico, Micronesia, Myanmar, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Oman, Palau, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Philippines
San Marino, Sao Tome & Principe, Senegal, Soloman Islands, Somalia, South Sudan, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Syria, Tanzania, Timor-Leste, Tonga, Tuvalu, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, Venezula, West Bank & Gaza Strip
I agree
Here’s a though.. what about an article celebrating some examples of the brave women who decided to let their babies live in similar circumstances? Embryos, babies, call them what you like, in the mothers womb are living humans and they are entitled to human rights like the rest of us!
Why are my comments being deleted or edited by the impartial cough cough Journo
@Gaz Barclay Dunnes: the jury not the journal…
I genuinely feel sorry for both of these women and what they went through in their early lives but voting so that our government has a carte blanc to legislate for unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks will not benefit Irish society.
From the age of 10-12 and until the time is right for both parties boys/men should be given a pill to controle sperm . No matter who you are or where you came from every guy shold have to have this. It would eliminate more then half of this disgusting argument. It’s all about control and money. Wake up.
@Lilly white:
‘From the age of 10-12 and until the time is right for both parties boys/men should be given a pill to controle sperm. No matter who you are or where you came from every guy should have to have [to take] this.’
Why not just put it the drinking water along with the chlorine and just declare that the socialist controlled dystopia has no further use for dissimulation.
And they say some on the NO side are fascist !
‘ This may be perceived as toxic6.5/10′ – What about the recommendation computer; oh sorry, I forget you now the AI being used to distribute Lilly’s pills.
@Thomas Francis: I said pills or something. Something should be better then having to make this desion. I’m not saying yes or no. I’m just saying there should be a better way. Do you nothink understand that???
Abortion is the killing of an unborn child but people don’t like those words so they create new words instead.
“The 1 AMEN”
1.No teenage pregnancies.
2.No Wrong timing.
3.A Happier society.
4. Eiliminate this kind of desion haven to be made.
5.No raped pregnancy cases
6.Less suicides
7.Less homeless
8.Less deases
9.No incest pregnancies
The lIst can go on. Oh am I dreaming?? Ah sure let’s go back to making the desion to end a baby or not.
I can’t make a desion because this shouldn’t be the problem.
‘They started shouting at me that I was a murderer and ‘when we win the referendum, we’ll have you arrested for murder.’ Loveboth in action
I’m voting NO because this referendum is about a abortion on demand – Giving healthy mothers a licence to kill healthy children. It’s also asking the people to transfer their power to political puppets. Thanks but NO thanks.
@rachelomeara Your argument seems to be based on the assumption that having an abortion makes a woman irresponsible. In fact, taking away a woman’s right to choose is what will render her irresponsible. A woman should be able to respond to a situation that she finds herself in, just like you did. If a woman’s choice is different to yours, well that’s because we are not all the same. Voting no negates a woman’s choice in taking responsibility for herself and the direction of her life. It negates her freedom. Please vote yes.
I’m so tired of people talking about the 2% of hard cases as an excuse for the mass slaughter of unborn children. If you wanted to help someone, you should ask her to take the morning after pill.. Stop promoting abortion as a contraceptive..
@Marc J McA: When do you believe life begins?
Wow
@Gaz Barclay Dunnes: can be spelled backwards ??
have your say