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LAST UPDATE | 21 Sep 2018
GARDAÍ ARE APPEALING for witnesses following an incident of shots being fired at a 40-year-old man who was out walking his dog in Cork last night.
Gardaí were called to the incident in Chapel Gate, Glenheights Road, Ballyvolane in Cork at around 10.30pm last night.
The man was uninjured and escaped into a house for safety.
Speaking to 96FM’s Opinion Line with PJ Coogan, a listener who was in the area at the time said that he was watching television when they “heard a few bangs”.
“She said ‘They sound like shots’ but I thought she was watching too much TV.
I said ‘That’s probably a car backfiring, a few bangers being left off or something’. And I’d say about three or four minutes later the dog started going mad.
He said he went outside for a look around, as did others in the area.
“Lo and behold there were shots fired.”
The listener said that he was in the middle of “10 or 20 houses” and if it had happened two weeks previously, then children would have been around the area.
Gardaí are appealing to anyone who was in the Chapelgate or Leeds Lane area between 9.30pm and 10.30pm last night to contact Mayfield Garda Station on 021 455 8510, the Garda Confidential Line on 1800 666 111, or any garda station.
With reporting by Hayley Halpin
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This guy proposed abolishing the seanad, set up a referendum with the aim of doing so then refused point blank to debate HIS OWN IDEA…….. Enough said
it’s a pity that Kenny’s dad wasn’t in a same-sex marriage.
Hopefully he won’t be debating same sex marriage either.
Why make it a political theatre when people should be trusted to be intelligent enough to vote with their own brain rather than rely on politicians to spell things out for them.
Enda doesn’t debate. He talks about what he feels is the merit of what he puts forward then one of two things happen…he says:
1.
I will not listen to a party that has links with the IRA (yet he sits beside Labour in the cabinet).
2.
I will not take advice from a party that ruined the country (yet his party is doing it too)
Enda is a little political nazi, in that he listens to no one outside of his own cabinet. I don’t think I could stick another 5 years of this clown hammering through legislation and cutting services and incomes.
well why wouldn’t he ?? Edna has been screwing men women and children for three years
“Why make it a political theatre when people should be trusted to be intelligent enough to vote with their own brain rather than rely on politicians to spell things out for them.”
Surely a key part of referendums is the voters hearing the arguments both in favour and against before making their minds up?
Enda is not able to debate is out of his depth
He’d do and say anything for a vote.
In fairness, you could apply that statement to any politician/party in this country.
Charles – there are two types of T.D. – those who are in politics for political gain (what’s best for Ireland) and those who are in politics for personal gain (what’s best for the rich)……
Once someone understands this then it’s very easy to assess one’s politicians- Backbenchers who vote along party lines are in it for ,by and large, personal gain …..
Why else would you gamble your political future on Irish Water unless you didn’t give a damn about Ireland and only care about Big Money getting Bigger ?
And Paddy now knows that that is what is “Goin’ On !”
Would you care to name who in Irish politics is in it for political gain as you put it.
I’d say Varadkar for one; he’s in politics for the long haul and has his eye on Taoiseach eventually. (Not saying he’s not also in it for the money, mind you.) Funnily enough, Kenny is another. He wants to stay where he is, which is why he about-turns on issues like this when the wind changes.
Oh, but I don’t mean Varadkar and Kenny are in politics for the good of ireland; misread that! Meant they’re in it for their own political gain long term.
take away the over generous pay and pensions ,replace it with ‘the national average’ wage ,strip back ‘expenses’ by 50% and make them ‘vouched for ‘, take away all the other ‘little perks’ such as chauffeur driven cars, usage of the government jet /air corps , tax relief or exemptions on ’2nd home’s’ and mortgages , free taxi journey’s paid out of public taxation, so called fact finding ‘missions and st patrick ‘s week sojourns to far off places (first class flights and 5 star accommodation paid for again ) out of the public coffers, remove all these things and see how many of them would STILL stand for election . i would bet it would be less than 5% of the entire dail , seaned and e.m.p.’s , same goes for local authorities and councils .
On Kenny’s “about turn”…
Many Irish people have went on an “about turn” on this issue in recent years. Even a few years ago there was a majority against marriage equality, according to opinion polls. So criticising Kenny for doing the same seems odd.
Totally agree with you.
Is it a genuine about turn or change of mind or political expediency and cowardice. The homosexual marriage movement has become one of the most illiberal campaign of recent history. It is akin to Mao’s cultural revolution. No opposition is tolerated. The vast majority of the media has firmly jumped on this bandwagon and vilifies anyone who dissents. Brendan Eich for instance was hounded out of his job by the media and the twitter mob for voicing his opinion.
Employee at Roman Catholic-affiliated Marquette University, Wisconsin have been urged to file harassment complaints against co-workers who even discuss the issue in a way that is against homosexual marriage. That’s just two examples of the coercion at play, there are many, many more.
This is not, liberalism or freedom, it is tyranny.
Should blatant racism be tolerated by public figures? Or is it justifiable to condemn discrimination and prejudice?
It’s not the big conspiracy you want it to be. It’s people not siting back and allowing prejudices. I for one am proud we have a society that considers minorities and does not tolerate oppression.
Ryan, I agree. I don’t actually have an issue with Kenny doing an about-turn on this or any other issue. He’s like a weather-vane; if Kenny starts to agree with something it’s a sure sign that the popular tide has turned that way. I take his statement as a pretty sure sign that the majority of Irish voters now favour marriage equality.
Varadkar is a conviction politician. Kenny tries to be populist but gets it wrong regularly. Very wrong. Varadkar regularly gives controversial opinions that risk unpopularity. I like that. Kenny is on a bandwagon with same sex marriage and thought he was with the senate referendum. His and the governments failed election promises created a backlash and they lost it. He wouldn’t dare say what Varadkar said about the abortion referendum. The seemingly full time left wing mad cap regular contributors to the Journal will always hate direct, logical right wing politicians like Varadkar. McDowell got the same treatment. Continuous vilification and distortion of what they say.
Compared with the distorted logic of the lefties that always ignore the facts and omit the consequences of their promises Varadkar is a breath of fresh air.
Supports equalisation of marriage then insults voters by saying we will be confused in voting for THREE separate issues. Oh this guy is fifteen different types of gobsh!t€.
Why doesn’t Hugh have the Fine Gael logo in his profile photo?
P.R. people have identified it as a negative – like the Fianna Fail logo during the last election – remember how small they were during the election ….
Why don’t you have Sinn Fein in yours?
Personally I would love six or seven votes on the same day arising out of the recommendations of the Constitutional Convention.
But if they were run alongside the marriage equality referendum, I am certain these issues would be sidelined in debates and in media coverage. The referendum on establishing the Court of Criminal Appeal for example was run alongside the Seanad referendum and it got very little media coverage.
MR Aquinas Hugh is the “impartial” journalist……Ahippo you are so bitterly opposed to Sinn Fein you do not allow yourself to see how strongly pro marriage equality Sinn Fein are
Only fishing for votes. Why doesn’t he just go away??? Nobody wants him anymore
Fair play.
We can decide whether we allow people to get married, we can decide whether people can abort children or not , we can decide to give children rights that they have anyway under the equality principle in law – …
But Enda won’t let us decide what to do with our property – Our Infrastructure – our water infrastructure …..
This proves that we are being ran by conmen in my opinion !
Time to get the conmen out – they’re ruining the gaff !
*abort unborn foetus –
not children – apologies – incorrect and insensitive term used out of habit and personal consideration .
Dermot, I see a yellow chicken crass neck when I see Kenny.
Here is what you are not being told, if you have an inequal tax law like partner dies leaves other partner with children never got married and never registered as a civil parnership. Under article 42 and part article 41 this family is treated as alien because they cannot get the 5 years widow tax relief after their partner died. Kenny should take his mantra and change this law as it degrades a certain type of family.
If people of the same sex relationship are now being used by Kenny for votes, political spin away from who will pay for the water bills. That all this is.
What I say is this if you are in a caring loving relationship you don’t need any referendum to prove it. But if you are a minority distracted and isolated you are easy picking for Kenny government to exclude you outside equal laws hence you become an easy target for the tax man having being made alien and foreign., since 1932 and placed into the constitution on advice to government by the Roman Catholic Church ” a family consists of a married man and woman” since 1957.
This has place inequality into Irish society and politics only has to remove this out of the article 41 and article 42 then there can be no indifference.
Does this really need a referendum??
Nottrying to belittle the issue but surely there are more important things to hold referendums on in this bust country of ours.
Are FG/Lab just throwing this in, in hope that gay people will keep them in government long enough for the next general election?
If I was the LBGT atheist wing I would establish a religion that allowed every consenting adult to get married as often as they like and to whom – one at a time I suppose (let’s not go into overload) and then get protection under Religious protection and thus force legislation to suit their beliefs….
I know a lad who could do the job of prophet for anyone if they want to play politics……. He’s on the big white telephone to God every time I see him at any rate…. religiously some might say.
@ Dermot: “we can decide whether people can abort children or not”
Did I miss an abortion referendum? I don’t recall any referendum on legalising abortion.
@ E: “Does this really need a referendum??”
Yes it does need a referendum – the reason being the judgement on the Zappone case a few years ago. Also I find your assertion that we shouldn’t have a referendum on this because of the “bust” foolish. We are a society – not just an economy. We are surely capable as a people of addressing both our social problems and our
“Are FG/Lab just throwing this in, in hope that gay people will keep them in government long enough for the next general election?”
Absolutely ridiculous. This has been on the cards for years now, since the Programme for Government was signed.
Meanwhile the electorate as a whole vote their representatives in for a term of five years. Gay people are only one small part of the electorate. The idea that we (i.e. gay people) have power in determining the duration of a government is foolish.
If you are against gay marriage then come out and say it rather than inventing reasons against having the referendum.
Jeez sorry Luv.
I didn’t realise this issue was so vital.
I’ll be lobbying my local TD in the morning.
Not against Gay marriage.
However with
A Half a million native Irish people (and counting) emigrating.
A Half a million Irish men, women, children and elderly facing eviction.
Irish Taxpayers being saddled with €10′s of billions of private debt.
All the country’s assets being sold off to foreign parasitic vultures.
etc etc etc
Maybe Kenny and Co. should be busy focusing their efforts on the obvious Irish travesties in their final few months in government?
Ryan ; we get to choose – that is the point !
He’s on the ropes now , disgusting how screwing the country shows his desperation for votes to “campaign” for something that should be law regardless
The funny thing here is how many of us think will live in a democracy ,, Enda Kenny turns around and says this and people act like clowns thinking the man really gives a shit!! I guess it takes all sorts to make a world but F###k me wake up!!!!
Try living in Bahrain, Saudi, Zimbabwe, China, Russia…. This is a great little country and I’m a bit sick of people running it down. It’s nowhere near as bad as you’d think if you were to listen to some.
Well said Martin
Interesting and extreme examples you had to find there in order to make Ireland look good by comparison. Ironically your point tends to support what Conor O’Loughlin commented.
Like the Puppet that he is !!!
Good man, not a fan of Enda but at the same time can’t let complacency set in, get the Yes vote passed. Ireland will be a better country for it.
I hope its a no to this referendum
Oh there’s no harm in hoping :) Enjoy it while you can
The issue of gay marriage reduces simply to this. If you accept that gay love and gay relationships based on a mutual loving commitment are just as fine, decent, good and worthy of legal recognition in the full sense, including the right to have society’s recognition as a full and equal civil marriage, a valuable societal recognition and support for a relationship based on love, loyalty and duty, then civil same sex marriage is a lomg over due development.,
I have friends who are gay. Their exclusive and loving relationships are just as loving, fine, decent and worthy of legal recognition as my marriage is.
In a real sense, my marriage is detracted from by the fact that it is a legally discriminatory relationship, open to my wife and to me because we happen to be heterosexual and not open to others whose love is just as good as our love is.
A same sex marriage will be as valid and as good as any heterosexual marriage. I welcome the opportunity to vote so that my gay brothers and sisters are no longer deprived of the full legal equality which is their entitlement.
End this discrimination against gay people as soon as possible.
Is SF/IRA against same sex marriage? Or are they just anti-everything the government proposes.
I hate this ‘been on a personal journey’ and ‘upon reflection come to change my position’
100% grade A bullshite…
What they really mean is… A significant portion of my political support were bigoted hate filled troglodytes and even more of them mindless sheep and since they’ve either died in significant numbers or abandoned me in favor of an extremist. I can now feel confident enough to state my position on the issue.
Fair play now just the Iona institution to convert
Iona dildo
i’m not surprised !
Is “Iona” a four letter word? It is in my lexicon.
2015 was meant to be Sinn Fein’s big year of lovebombing the electorate. How dare Enda do this, and steal their thunder.
Johngagan the ónly thing your beloved Enda has stolen is hope for the future.The sooner this muppet goes back to Mayo for good the better for us!
You must have very weak credentials Gus if Enda Kenny has stolen your hope for the future.
Are you really that weak and absolutely dependent on government for your path in life?
Johngahan (Sean) you are the most anti Irish poster here,,,how you refer to Irish people would make Peter Robinson blush a chara
Where do the Reform Alliance stand on this issue?
Certain groups, (https://www.facebook.com/FearAgusBeanCheileCosantaAnPhostaInEirinn?fref=ts or to a lesser extent given it is quite a right wing in the majority of its views but which is not just limited to opposing marriage equality and which endorses the views of Richard Waghorne, an Irish man who is a UKIP Advisor, https://www.facebook.com/KilkennyJournal?fref=ts) and their supporters are quite vitriolic and undemocratic and don’t reflect in social media terms the “balance” which the BAI insists upon in tangible media terms.
One view opined was that other countries and states have had marriage equality imposed upon them by legislation and indeed Supreme Court rulings overturning bans etc.
I think we should be proud that our Taoiseach, the Govt. of the day is giving us is giving us, the electorate the opportunity to Vote Yes (do I have to add a rider that there are other ways of voting too such as to Vote No here in the interests of er, balance?) to Marriage Equality that has been denied to citizens of other countries and states whether or not they agree with the legislation “imposed”.
It is a sign that we are being respected and is not to be taken lightly from a democratic p.o.v.
I think the campaign which has been ongoing at a grassroots level since LGBT Noise was set up and since the first ever March for Marriage (Equality) occurred in the early noughties (and one hopes the most recent one in the Autumn will have been the culmination of the campaign in a good way) at the very least but which has been a serious issue ever since the huge hurdle that was the decriminalisation of homosexuality was overcome in 1993 starts in earnest now, today for a lot of people.
It’s a new dawn, a new day, a new year and time for some new thinking and I’m delighted that any Taoiseach will be actively campaigning and I look forward to him engaging in a debate on the wireless and the television.
I think it’s important not to allow the issue to become a political football (much like the Protection of Life Bill became and what an Abortion Referendum would inevitably turn into also whenever a Govt. decides it’s time to stop kicking that particular can down the road; my hope is that, if, for it’s important not to be too complacent, the Marriage Equality Referendum is passed, that party manifestos for the National Election of Spring/April 2016 will include a commitment for such a referendum within the first year of that particular administration) and given there’s a lot of unity on this one across the political divide one hopes it won’t become a point scorer for various parties who all stand to gain for a positive outcome but less so if it’s a negative one (giving the current Govt. a bloody nose in either referendum is pointless and biting off ones nose etc. Indeed it’s quite childish and won’t have any long lasting effects on a particular candidate or office holder; it will however affect those who are currently being denied the legal right to marriage which would be an appalling vista).
This is ultimately about one thing; providing those in the LGBT Community with the chance to have the choice (for no-one should be forced into a marriage in either the heterosexual or homosexual community) to get married.
Denying such a right, such a choice is undemocratic and it sends out a strong signal for the Taoiseach of the country to have made a journey (given his rural background which often mitigates against such beliefs as well as the era he’s come from and his length of time in public office as well as his personal and religious beliefs) that he’s supportive and going to be pro-active in supplying his support.
As a final rider I would rather the whip wasn’t imposed by any of the parties; let each individual TD and Cllr. if they don’t wish to campaign publicly for a Yes Vote or if they wish to campaign for a No Vote or simply not campaign at all I think this should be respected. It is a divisive issue but I think, in comparison to a re-run of the 1983 Abortion Referendum, it will be a walk in the park from a campaigning p.o.v.
Vote Yes to equality is my request and it’s how I will be voting in the first week of May.
I will vote yes just to shut you up. That is a long winded comment…..
Did he take his personal journey on the back of a shiny bandwagon?
Enda is like the magpie in Father Ted that keeps stealing Father Jack’s glasses when they go to the mainland. He sees something shiny and he swoops in and takes it. That is why we are all broke you know…..
Bwahaha! Nice analogy! I’m going to visualise him as an evil little magpie from now on.
that is grossly unfair to magpies !
Most people don’t give a ?uck who marries who kenny on the slippery slope with no way off
I hope people do give a ?uck enough to turn out and vote yes to marriage equality in May.
As for Kenny, I don’t get there slippery slope part of your comment. Would you rather he wasn’t involved in the campaign? If he wasn’t involved in the campaign many on here would be complaining. Now that he is involved, people on here are complaining. Let’s face it – whatever he does is wrong.
Yeah Ryan. You’ve got that right. Can’t trust him on anything he says. He’s not the only one, and that’s the problem with politicians and parties.
Homosex marriage will never happen. Use it as a referendum on Irish Water.
I disagree with what you said but you have a point in there.
Let’s put the topic of the ownership of Irish Water to the people at the same time.
Apparently that would “confuse” us, Spidey.
I’ll send ya an invite to the wedding Praisy
There always the small minded people out there!! Happy new year..
you may hope for that Praise…but not going to happen dear…we will wait for the General Election to vote on Irish Water and this pathetic elitist government..in the mean time we will have marriage equality
Praise Hope – it will happen of course, and we will refer to it as Marriage Equality. Please try to be more like Jesus when you mouth off about these things.
*laughing hysterically*
Oh Praise. That is priceless. Thanks for that, I really needed a good laugh.
That article is an “opinion” piece. It’s not backed up by any citations or anything other than the author’s wild imagination. It obviously wasn’t even edited properly or those crimes against the poor humble exclamation point wouldn’t have slipped through.
Have you got any more articles like that? They’re great fun.
mind made up enda says yes so it has to be” NO”
Are you that easily persuaded, JP?
2015 is the year of protests against this government. A lot of people are going to go with the opposite of what this government wants by default.
Sad but true. Two biggest threats to this referendum not passing are complacency and people being allergic to anything this government is pushing.
He’s doing more harm than good by speaking on it but Maybe that’s part of the plan.
Has he nothing better to do than concern himself with gay marriage ?
No, he cares more about gay marriage than the poor and that is what it looks like.
In fairness, the gay community have been fighting an uphill battle to even get to this point. This referendum has been on the horizon since it was given the go ahead last year. In typical fashion, the fight to get it approved was barely given any coverage by mainstream media here.
Hopefully Irish people dont take their anger with Enda & co out on the gay community.
It’s long after time that Ireland joined the real world and marriage equality is extended to all.
It’s the 21st century, time to shake off the last desperate grasp of the church and its hypocrites as well as bury that Iona crowd once and for all.
I just think it is unfair to marriage as marriage is at heart a blessing from God on a union, then later it became a ceremony to prove commitment to each other and later a way to keep up with the Jones with the best bash going to show who can spend the most. At each step the meaning of marriage is getting lost and marriage is about commitment and family in faith.
But I fear that this is lost in order for gays and lesbians to make a statement of using marriage to say that they are exactly the same as a man and a woman who are married and the fact is they are not the same. I am not against them if they want to be legally unified under the law but it is not a marriage. I believe many will use the ceremony of marriage not based on love but as a protest to state that when we can marry then we are the same as everyone else, it will be an excuse to make a point rather that to be part of something personal. I am against the term marriage being used because things are named after function and not ideals or ideas, who would call a chair a table, both have 4 legs but their function is different from each other. The same here as two in an union of the same sex can not be the same as two in an union of different sex?
There is a thread with some that many in minority groups shout and protest for equality and wanting respect and at the same time they do not give any to those who do not agree with them, why is that? I am not against the gay community having a ceremony or legal joining but I am against the idea that it is the exact same as a marriage especially using the term marriage but this is my belief, many will disagree with me about this I am sure…
Marriage is very much a human construct Michael. It’s fine that you believe it’s from God etc. We aren’t challenging that or here to take that from you. We’re asking for the law to be changed and equality extended to us. This simply means some people of faith having their own understanding of marriage changed. It hasn’t, it’s being added to if anything.
How can two people who are of the same sex and want to get married and have families, be taking away from marriage and the idea of family?
It’s not a hard question to answer. They aren’t ‘taking’ anything nor is the meaning of marriage being ‘lost’.
Put another way, how are two gay men getting married going to interfere with you or your marriage at all??
it won’t. And to deny gay people those rights is to discriminate and support a two tier society. Equality will be won for all, and the sky wont fall.
It’s that simple.
The thing is peoples views and beliefs are formed from others close to them and from their own desires and these create their own beliefs. This then creates a filter from which they judge everything around them and explains why they accept some thing and deny others.
I am saying that the term marriage was created to have a certain meaning based on function and now it is being used to describe something new and different and therefore a new descriptive word needs to be used as the word of marriage does not mean the same as what it is being used for now. The main reason it is being used is to prove that this union of those of the same sex is exactly the same as those of the opposite sex and it isn’t? I am not telling people not to do it, just that it should not be the same word because it is not the same?
That’s really splitting hairs to be honest. Labels are for tins of beans. Shared love and a wish to be devoted and share a life together, and have that recognised under law, straight or gay, (lets rename it bananas. It is in a lot of ways ;) )
But it’s the same thing. Trying to claim ownership of the word is a bit redundant. The church haven’t got a monopoly on the word or the idea of marriage by any stretch.
if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its a duck..etc
You are absolute right Michael. The word equality has been ripped of its meaning in the pursuit of the homosexual marriage. The demand that homosexuals must be treated the same as traditionalists is equality. It is not necessary for each to be treated the same for equality to exist before the law. They are different and should be treated differently, with equality.
What I am saying is that difference is ok but stop trying to make out everything is the same, people try to say everything is the same due to political correctness rather than the facts. People have a right to be happy and do what they want once it doesn’t harm others or themselves but stay within reality. There is too much ignoring the truth and facts of things mainly because of people fearing what others might think of them due what they say or do but this only causes harm and ignorance. What I see is that the most racist or most homophobic people are those who see racism and homophobia everywhere because it is them always seeing or noticing it.
Equality means respect but it does not mean ignoring things by covering them up or hiding them, there is nothing wrong with difference as acknowledging difference is acknowledging truth.
Fran, with your logic people with different skin colour, skill sets, beliefs or abilities should all be treated differently. The state has an obligation to treat all citizens equally, they do not. Extending marriage will be a step towards equal treatment by law.
Or a plastic imitation duck lol. Words have certain meanings that describes what they mean and to hijack them means to use them to mean it is the same for something else? It is the best way to assimilate acceptance of new ideas and actions rather than to be accepted for the reality and truth of what it is? So an union between a man and woman is not the same as an union of those of the same sex, I am not saying not to do it, only that it is not the same and that is all I’m saying.
Well, again, that’s splitting hairs. Not saying your wrong i can’t see that position being one that gathers any traction or support in the run up to the referendum.
It may seem like splitting hairs but there are real differences that must be papered over to hide the reality that the two things are different.
In the recent England and Wales legislation a waver had to made for homosexuals in relation to consummation. A traditional marriage could be annulled on the basis of non consummation (vaginal penetration) and still can under the new definition.
A homosexual (so called) marriage cannot be annulled on this basis. An exemption exists because the reality stares us in the face.
Diversionary tactic there, Sands and a false equivalence. Have you any actual facts to back up your hoped-for denial of equal rights to people born gay?
Fran, can you find the date that a case was last brought in Ireland for an annulment to be granted based of non consummation of a marriage?
I’d say it’s one covered in dust. But if this is the kind of opposition passing this referendum faces it really really won’t have any trouble being passed. Equally if this is the kind of opposition that the no campaign are going to be using, they’re as out of touch as they seem and it’s a lost cause for them
“Fran, can you find the date that a case was last brought in Ireland for an annulment to be granted based of non consummation of a marriage?”
That is totally irrelevant Dave, the point is that in the England and Wales legislation the provision is retained because of the reality that the two types of relationships are different and must be treated differently. In doing so the recognition is implicit that the foundation of ,marriage is based in the social reality of the family.
Your point is entirely irrelevant. You argue that different things should be treated differently but equally. Your example is that in England marriage for same sex couples is treated differently but they have equal rights, but you contradict yourself and use it to argue against marriage equality. Make up your mind.
Regardless, consummation is the most pointless clause of marriage. It discriminates against thosr that cannot, for many reasons, including injury or disability and should be removed altogether.
The worst thing to say in any argument is to tell someone what they believe or say is wrong, once that happens then they just switch off.
I am only one man who is sharing his opinion not trying to tell others what to think or believe but to question their thinking, just saying what I hold to be true and people will agree or disagree according to what they already believe. That is life?
Thanks for replying to that Ailbhe..you showed much more restraint than i did in the face of logic perversion on a scale we are sadly about to become all to familiar with..
not for long though, with luck.
I think you are trying to put words in my mouth in order to discredit what I said as I never said that, please read what I wrote and you find that I never said, implied or hinted at that.
I am stating the fact that age old marriage is not the same as gay marriage, so why use the term marriage unless it is being implied it is the same but going by the fact that a marriage is between people of opposite sexes rather than the same sex, then how can it be the same. Why then not choose a different word than marriage as it is not the same, they could use union or joining etc but it is the fact that people choose to turn the new into the familiar in order to get accepted and that is the core of my point. The problem with beliefs is that sometimes what a person says can be filtered into something else by what someone else already believes but rereading my comments will bring clarity now I think, thanks.
It’s the same thing Michael. Can you explain the importance to the assumed right of ownership to it?
Pre-Catholicism same sex marriage/union/whatever was the norm in ireland. Men were entitled and able to have same sex partners. It was the norm. Should we start using the old Irish word for it instead?
The notion and idea and even the word marriage does not belong to the church. Laying claim to it is to stand on a fine sand that will soon swallow any who try to claim it.
Pre Christian gay unions were not called marriages. Words have meanings due to function and the function is lost and the word becomes the image, so with the word marriage the image is a union between a man and woman. Now gay couples want to use the same word in order to be more accepted in my view, it is like using the word table to define a stool, both look similar but both are different.
What annoys me is the U.S. way of spelling too that many use while using Microsoft word and I can say that this is a good example of what I mean. The meaning of things are changing to suit what people want, rather than for the reason the words are used in the first place.
Once you leave the reality of facts and replace them with emotions or beliefs then you dilute their meaning.
A Referendum addresses the broad principle and legislation later infill the specific legislative detail.
I despise Enda Kenny and his brand of right wing and socially destructive political economics but I take each issue on its own merits. I appreciate that many people will vote against the Referendum for a variety of irrelevant reasons, each with their own merits, such as opposition to the water charges, grievances over family law issues, resentment of the ideological pursuit of austerity and a myriad of other reasons but I look at SSM on its own independent merits. I subscribe to the principle of the absolute legal equality of homosexual and heterosexual people, full parity of esteem, and I will not allow myself to be distracted by the very many other issues facing Irish society, such as homelessness, an inadequate health care system and increasingly governmental dysfunctionality in Ireland.
The fact that there are many problems in Irish society should not blind us to resolving one issue which merely requires the passing of a Referendum and implementing legislation. I expect that a lot of yes votes will be lost because of the very many justified grievances on other issues but I’m confident that a majority of voters will vote yes because of the merits of this issue.
Will I feel an ounce of gratitude to Enda Kenny after the Referendum is passed? No, I will not. It is only right and proper that the people are allowed to vote on this fundamental issue of legal equality and even Kenny knows that the march of progress on this one issue cannot be indefinitely deferred.
Well said, Anthony.
Jane, I liked your point that when Enda Kenny jumps on the bandwagon, smelling an easy political victory, he has been advised that the outcome is assured.
Political expediency motivates politicians more than issues of right, justice, equality and simple humanity. The question for the politician is ” are there any votes in this for me? Yes. Right. I’m on board.”
Same sex couples I think we all will vote yes anyway, but please as a community do not be sucked in by Enda in the next election. He has obviously crunched the figures and he knows that you guys are a pool of people that he would love to tap for votes. This is the guy that has cut everything across the board in a way that no Taoiseach has ever done before, with the effects being so harsh on families and children.
Use him to get your right to marry yes, but please do not vote for him in return. Or we will just get another 5 years of mental health issues, suicides, unemployment, lack of opportunity etc etc.
Ok,
This is yet another populist scam foisted on the country by this skidmark and his Labour cohort. The UK introduced SSM by ordinary legislation and these clowns refuse to do that while creating a massive sideshow that will only distract from the harm they do by remaining in government.
FG support for SSM is toxic, and the legislative supports they propose to introduce before the referendum are most likely going to end up being challenged.
It is not about Marriage, it is about Family and Children. The fundamental social unit of Irish Society.
To see the issue being played as a populist football and to see the divisions this will create is quite disgusting. But Enda and FG don’t care, because for them, this buys time.
The groundwork for introducing SSM has not been completed, we should not be asked to vote on the issue until it has. For that reason, I will not be voting.
Paul, there are always excuses not to do the right thing. Traditionally in Ireland, a significant portion of voters will decline to support positive measures because of grievances, often legitimate, on other issues.
It seems to me that the groundswell of voting support exists for this measure and the only challenge will be to get the yes voters out to vote because there will be some complacency.
Once the Referendum is passed, legislative implementation will be technically challenging but not insurmountable. The broad principle of equality in the Constitution must first be established.
I feel positive that once this measure is passed by Referendum and legislated for, it will be accepted and within a short interval of time even the opponents will wonder want the fuss was all about. Remember the controversies over the removal of the legislative discrimination on illegitimacy, the attempt to prevent access to means of contraception, the efforts to prevent divorce, the opposition to gender equality in the workplace and the many other issues in Ireland which were fiercely debated and subsided afterwards.
Even the opponents of same sex marriage in Ireland are less violently passionate than their counterparts in France. The time has come for same sex marriage and the people generally, with some exceptions, are ready for this positive development.
Anthony,
Without workable legislation, this will be the wrong thing.
Of course, you’re cheering for the opportunity for a constitutional amendment without having seen the wording. How smart is that?
Paul, first, and in a spirit of true humility, let me acknowledge your intellectual brilliance. You are an astonishingly smart individual. I am an ordinary person whose intellect does not blind him to what is right and proper. It is right and proper to acknowledge the moral, emotional and legal equality of homosexual and heterosexual people and the equal capacity of each for full expression.
The Wording of the Referendum is what counts. Once that wording establishes the principle of equality, the legislative provisions will flow naturally from that principle of equality. There are a few challenges to get the legislation exactly right but these have been anticipated in articles in legal journals and will be surmountable. I feel no sense of paranoia or imminent threat about this. You can relax Paul. Your smartness may, for once, be creating a notion of threat which exists only as an intellectual construct and not in reality.
As a lawyer, Tony, you can expect to make a fortune.
As a father, you can expect to get screwed.
As a citizen, you can expect to be played.
Yet you played the system and lost.
That game is still in play Ailbhe. It only got a lot more interesting thanks to some judicial-appointments.
Who do you go to when you suspect a judge of perjury?.
If they were the in the case, they are not under oath and may not be subject to perjury unless avting as a witness. Otherwise it’s an article 40 for your legal team to submit.
Who does the judge go to when they discover you commited fraud?
Paul, I made the error of taking you half seriously.
You are an embittered individual whose profound sense of legal grievance has blinded you to all else and has shut your mind to the rights of homosexual people to be treated equally in law with heterosexual people.
There is a disturbing monomaniacal quality in your comments which shows that you have lost perspective.
I checked on your past comments and I see that you regularly hijack the question of same sex civil marriage so as to promote your own grievances against the family courts. There may or may not be legitimacy to your grievances but The Journal is not the appropriate forum.
Jude’s are fallible and human but my experience of the Irish judiciary is that they are honest. I am sceptical about allegations of Judicial perjury but, even if true, it is wrong to divert attention away from the issue of legal equality so that you can vent your grievances.
Thanks Tony,
Alan Shatter advised the President to appoint a particular solicitor to the bench. That solicitor was named by myself as being party to a perjury in an affidavit that now sleeps in Central Office.
Oh what larks!
Heather Perrin is another solicitor that springs to mind… but don’t let me dent your faith in the Judiciary.
Since you went to the trouble of checking my comments, I decided to check for your name on lawsociety.ie – it’s not there, unless the one you use is misspelt.
How do you expect me to take a troll seriously?
Let gays marry, who cares.
license = euro
I actually think this referendum is a insult to the gay community? Surly it’s a civil and human right for gay people to have the same rights as the straight community? Imagine if we were having a referendum for the right of straight people to marry? Ludicrous it may sound, but imagine how gay people think? People in this country debating on how gay people they live and deciding what right they have to marry? I personally think thats ludicrous!!
Indeed! If someone is born gay should that automatically mean the state treats them differently?
They do need someone to like them for the next election? Is it this government doing this or has the E.U. Masters telling this government again what to do?
What if this government gets a big no in this referendum as people would vote no as a message to this government, would the E.U. force us to have another vote on it until we say yes??? Just some thoughts on it?
“confirming he had made a personal journey in relation to the issue.”
If he has made a personal journey and the only conclusion he can come to is redefining marriage he must be intellectually deficient.
If he holds a different view to that which he will espouse publicly he is also a coward.
The biggest danger to the marriage Equality referendum is not the Iona Institute or the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland but rather those who are fronting the YES campaign for the government the minister for ” equality ” Mr. O Riordain and Mr Hayes MEP..it is reminiscent of the Oireachtas Enquiry referendum where /minister Shatter totally shattered the YES campaign….these guys have the potential to do the same and should be seen and not heard
have your say