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Homeless and Traveller children 'falling through gaps' in education system

Ireland is one of the best countries in terms of reducing education inequality, but concerns have been raised about vulnerable children.

SUBSTANTIAL GAPS EXIST between the best and worst performing students in Irish schools, new research has found.

According to Unicef’s latest Report Card, Ireland ranks second out of 41 wealthy nations in reducing education inequality between children.

Despite this, there are concerns that vulnerable groups such as Traveller children, children experiencing homelessness and immigrant children are in danger of being left behind due to insufficient educational supports.

TOP 10 Ireland ranks second out of 41 countries. Unicef Report Card Unicef Report Card

An Unfair Start: Inequality in Children’s Education in Rich Countries focuses on educational inequalities in 41 of the world’s richest countries, looking at two principal indicators of inequality:

  • the percentage of students enrolled in organised learning one year before the official age for entering primary school
  • the gap in reading scores between the lowest and highest-performing students in both primary school (fourth class, around age 10) and secondary school (age 15)

The ranking at age 15 is the lead indicator in the report, as this represents the level of inequality towards the end of compulsory education. The report also explores the relationships between educational inequality and factors such as parents’ occupations, the child’s gender and school characteristics.

The results for Ireland show that inequality among children decreases as they move from early childhood education (33rd) to primary school (16th) and on to secondary school (second). However, with one in 10 students not reaching basic proficiency in reading by secondary school (age 15), Unicef said a large minority of students “are still falling through the gaps and not getting the resources they need”.

Vulnerable groups

According to the 2016 census, just 13% of Traveller girls completed second level education, compared with 69% of the general population. Over 57% of Traveller boys ceased education at primary level, compared with 13% in the general population.

Half of Travellers reside outside of DEIS educational areas and the number of Travellers who have attained a third level qualification represents less than 1% of their community.

The report notes that more than 3,000 children are currently experiencing homelessness in Ireland, with research showing that many of these children are forced to make long journeys to school, often arriving exhausted, without breakfast and in dirty uniforms due to inadequate washing facilities. This can affect school attendance and performance.

In 21 of the 25 countries, including Ireland, with substantial levels of immigration, a higher percentage of first-generation immigrant children (12.8%) fail to reach basic literacy levels at age 15 than non-migrant children (9.1%).

While the difference is modest, the report shows that the rate for second-generation immigrants (13.2%) in Ireland actually increases, as opposed to many other countries such as the UK, where educational outcomes vastly improve for second-generation immigrants.

shutterstock_600403670 File photo of school children writing. Shutterstock / LightField Studios Shutterstock / LightField Studios / LightField Studios

Unicef Ireland’s Chief Executive Peter Power said the report’s findings show that Ireland “can lead the way when the right funding and policies are in place”.

In Ireland, around 86% of the inequality in reading scores is between children within schools, and only a small amount is between schools. 

“This means that while our schools produce good results for the many, there are some children, and often those most in need, who are falling through the gaps. We need to ensure that every child has the right wrap around supports they need in school to achieve their highest potential.”

Preschool education

Countries can have different degrees of educational inequality at different educational stages. For example, Ireland is in the bottom third of countries (ranked 33rd, indicating high inequality) for preschool enrolment, but moves to the top third (ranked second, signalling low inequality) at secondary school.

Ireland and Slovenia are the only two countries that move up from the bottom third in preschool access to the middle third in equality at primary school and the top third in terms of equality at secondary school.

Bullying

Bullying is one of the most common forms of violence experienced by children in schools internationally. The report notes that bullying “can cause long-lasting harm to victims, bystanders and the bullies themselves”.

It takes different forms, both physical and psychological, and happens face to face, through text messaging and over the Internet.

About one child in four in Ireland, Finland and Norway said they experience bullying at least once a month.

The report identifies several factors which drive educational inequality, globally and in Ireland:

Parental occupation

Large inequalities in children’s educational progress are linked to family background. In half of the European countries, including Ireland, preschool children aged three and older from lower-income households are less likely to attend education centres.

Parental occupation explains up to one-third of the variation in reading scores at fourth class level, with children whose parents work in professional occupations doing better in reading in all the countries measured.

At 15, children whose parents work in lower-ranked occupations do worse in reading and are less likely to say that they expect to complete post-secondary education across all 35 countries ranked in this regard.

Gender

There are already substantial gender differences in children’s reading abilities by fourth class level. Girls generally do better than boys. Yet, in some countries the gap can shrink when tests are done on a computer rather than on paper.

Internationally, the gaps in reading performance tend to grow as children get older but at 15 years of age girls do just 2% better than boys in Ireland, which is the smallest gap in gender-related scores in all countries tested.

Difference between schools

Internationally children’s educational opportunities can be substantially influenced by which school they attend. There are often large differences in average achievement between schools within the same country, especially if specific socioeconomic backgrounds are concentrated in any one school.

The report finds that differences caused by family background tend to have the most impact on scores. In Ireland, there is also a bigger difference between students in the same school, rather than between the scores of different schools.

The balance of schools managed by public bodies and private bodies also varies widely. Ireland and Latvia are at the top of the league table of educational inequalities but are hugely different in this respect.

In Ireland, 57% of schools are managed privately, compared with 2% in Latvia.

The full report can be read on Unicef’s website.

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59 Comments
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    Mute Dj
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:01 PM

    Good for her. I agree. Instead of #metoo it should be #weknew.

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    Mute Nick Allen
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:18 PM

    @Dj:

    I like that

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    Mute Sinead Hanley
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:47 PM

    @Nick Allen: I like that too. Meryl Streep should have it engraved on her Oscars. But then again the Queen of Hollywood has us convinced she knew nothing. Probably the greatest acting of her career.

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    Mute Dj
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    Jan 10th 2018, 11:08 PM

    @Sinead Hanley: How to describe Meryl’s attitude toward Weinstein’s behavior: “Streep it under the rug.”!!.

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    Mute DaisyChainsaw
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    Jan 10th 2018, 11:18 PM

    @Dj: And people wonder why women stayed silent for as long as they did.

    http://time.com/5090659/roy-moore-accuser-tina-johnson-home-fire/

    Threats from fans of a paedophile like Moore or Polanski, but it suits the pedo fan club to rail against the victims for fear they’ll be the ones that have the light shed on their dark deeds next.

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    Mute Tom&Gerry
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    Jan 11th 2018, 1:54 AM

    @DaisyChainsaw: So ridiculous, but typical of you to accuse people of a different point of view than yours of having done “dark deeds” this kind of talk is meant to intimidate people who don’t agree with you. Calling people fans of a pedo club. really shows the mentality of feminists like yourself, who are the perpetual victims, merely by just being a woman.

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    Mute Bridget O'Hanlon
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    Jan 11th 2018, 2:04 AM

    @Dj: yes, because knowing about something is SO much worse than actually doing it

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Jan 11th 2018, 4:38 AM

    @1in10arelefties: anyone that has ever accused a public figure, ever. That’s plenty of examples right there for you. Trump’s accusers for example. Clinton’s accusers. Any child that ever spoke out about a priest/teacher in this country.

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    Mute Virtual Architect
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    Jan 11th 2018, 6:44 AM

    @Bridget O’Hanlon: It’s sad to see anyone who said or did nothing at the time of an alleged assault to suddenly come out with accusations years later. Even if they’re afraid to speak surely they’d express a desire to do something or take some kind of action.

    11
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    Mute Theunpopularpopulist
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    Jan 11th 2018, 9:52 AM

    @Bridget O’Hanlon: all it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing.

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Jan 11th 2018, 10:36 AM

    @Virtual Architect: shame and power are the weapons used to achieve that result.

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    Mute Alan Moore
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:05 PM

    Great to see a truly brave woman speaking up. The divide and conquer only works on people who are still asleep. Connection and love win.

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    Mute Liam Doyle
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:12 PM

    @Alan Moore: Truly brave individual in that case. What she is saying shouldn’t be granted further credence because of her gender, that’s where problems stemmed from in the first place.

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    Mute Tom Phelan
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:22 PM

    @Alan Moore: True story!

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    Mute Sean Conway
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:29 PM

    @Alan Moore: She would make another great crazy french president.

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    Mute Cathal O'Neill
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:04 PM

    Much of the response to this letter has been ad hominem attacks on the signatories rather than a real attempt to address the points of their argument. It seems to have become the norm these days to win arguments by silencing the opposition rather than engage in debate. You won’t change people’s minds by shouting them down.

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    Mute Irish Patriot
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:10 PM

    @Cathal O’Neill: Shut up Cathal!

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    Mute Alan Moore
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:15 PM

    @Irish Patriot: that is not a proper ad hominem, Patriot, you really need to ignore his argument and say something about his character. Good effort, go again.

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    Mute Liam Doyle
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:17 PM

    @Cathal O’Neill: The man convinced against his will holds the same opinion still.

    19
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    Mute Irish Patriot
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:18 PM

    @Alan Moore: Actually, Mr Smartypants, I was responding to his last sentence.

    29
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    Mute DaisyChainsaw
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    Jan 10th 2018, 11:19 PM

    @Cathal O’Neill: Like the adhominem attacks on the victims of the likes of Weinstein, etc?

    11
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    Mute Kieran Conroy
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:18 AM

    @Cathal O’Neill: STFU. Idiot.

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    Mute Tom&Gerry
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:06 PM

    Fantastic, at last, a reasonable logical beautiful woman speaks her mind, way to go Catherine, but be careful, the organization that started this witch hunt and intends to keep it going appear to be quite vicious, and will not let you get away with being reasonable towards men, its not allowed.

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    Mute andrew
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:31 PM

    @Tom&Gerry: Someone ‘pesters’ my girlfriend, that’s it for them it. She will do something about it, and so will I.

    But , on the other hand, George Hook would say it is probably her own fault. Maybe he’s right.

    Actually, go ahead and ‘pester’ my wife. Who cares.

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    Mute Irish Patriot
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:46 PM

    @andrew: You have a wife and also a girlfriend? You sly dog.

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    Mute Peter Roche
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:48 PM

    @andrew: which do you prefer ?
    Your wife or girlfriend ?

    57
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    Mute Irish Patriot
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:52 PM

    Jaysus lads I’d say we all copped that at the exact same time

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    Mute Kieran Conroy
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:25 AM

    @andrew: FULL OF SHITE.

    29
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    Mute Kieran Conroy
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:33 AM

    @Tom&Gerry: Shut up! You are far too sensible to be on here!

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    Mute Thought for Food
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:15 PM

    ““Catherine Deneuve might have very different opinions about harassment if she weren’t an extraordinarily beautiful, very rich white woman living in a bubble of heightened privilege. And had some empathy,” tweeted New York Times cartoonist Colleen Doran.”

    I think this goes to show the lack of intelect from those criticising her. Most of the women allegedly attacked were beautiful, rich white women living in a bubble of privilege.

    It’s also a horrifically sexist, racist and classist remark.

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    Mute Boutros Boutros-Ghali
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:39 PM

    @neilo: *numpty

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    Mute Siobhán Ni Mhurchú
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:46 PM

    @neilo: back at ya !

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    Mute Siobhán Ni Mhurchú
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    Jan 10th 2018, 11:46 PM

    @neilo: at least you took it well :)

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    Mute Tom&Gerry
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:13 AM

    @neilo: I thought foodies comments were excellent. He spoke the truth.

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    Mute Kate Flaherty
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:01 PM

    Can I sign??

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    Mute María Eugenia Baiardi
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    Jan 10th 2018, 11:52 PM

    @Kate Flaherty: oh Lord! Give me patience. So whenever a randomer fondles you or rub his genitals against you in the bus, you class the incident as a non-event.

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    Mute Nollaig Elliot
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:16 AM

    @María Eugenia Baiardi: Did you report that offence to the cops when that happened to you?

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    Mute Declan Carroll
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:57 PM

    She is right.

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    Mute Philip O Brien
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    Jan 10th 2018, 11:43 PM

    @DaisyChainsaw: Did you read the letter, or did you just read the reports about the letter?

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    Mute Siobhán Ni Mhurchú
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    Jan 10th 2018, 11:48 PM

    @DaisyChainsaw: you’ve missed the point of the letter altogether..

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    Mute Eddie Nugent
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:01 AM

    @DaisyChainsaw: thats a disgusting comment you deserve to be kicked off this forum.

    28
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    Mute María Eugenia Baiardi
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:03 AM

    @Declan Carroll: . So whenever a randomer fondles you or rub his genitals against you in the bus, you class the incident as a non-event. I guess somebody has to enjoy it.

    5
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    Mute Philip O Brien
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:12 AM

    @neilo: The text of the letter is not below. The slightly inaccurate and awkward translation of the text of the letter is below.

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    Mute Dj
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:14 AM

    @María Eugenia Baiardi: You’re clearly not well.

    25
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    Mute Tom&Gerry
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:18 AM

    @DaisyChainsaw: Sometimes women show a lack of self control, do you think that should be tolerated?
    Are they a bit rapey? whatever that means.

    20
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    Mute Tom&Gerry
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:22 AM

    @María Eugenia Baiardi: If a person has touched you inappropriately, why have you not reported it, it is a crime you know. Next time it happens, as it seems to happen to you a lot, take a photo of the guy, and go to the police.

    29
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    Mute Philip O Brien
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:39 AM

    @neilo: Read it for yourself and decide for yourself. Or find a more reliable translation.

    Your opinion is an opinion (as opposed to a fact), but you’re basing it on false information (a seemingly poor reading of an imprecise translation).

    In my opinion, none of the sentiments in the French text are dim, nor are they laughable. The subject matter is not laughable either.

    12
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    Mute Franklin Roosevelt
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    Jan 10th 2018, 9:55 PM

    I guess showbiz is exactly like politics and finance – as long as you have enough money, you can buy your way out from the justice system.

    Time that changes.

    Will Harvey Weinstein ever go behind bars?

    55
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    Mute Thought for Food
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:11 PM

    @Franklin Roosevelt:

    Can you prove that he committed a crime in a court of law?

    43
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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:14 PM

    @Thought for Food: did he sexually assault somebody in a court room. My oh my, what’s the world coming to?

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    Mute Tom&Gerry
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:15 AM

    @Tom Burke: Now Tom, that is just stupid.

    18
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    Mute Robot
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:14 PM

    Shame on her for having an opinion

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    Mute Jed I. Knight
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    Jan 11th 2018, 8:49 AM

    @Robot: In all of this the implication is that it’s older men who wish to continue with a somewhat old fashioned treatment and view of women, yet it has always been my experience that this isn’t the case.
    I’ve always found that it’s been older and middle aged men who treat women, particularly younger women, around them with a somewhat chivalrous degree of respect. It’s these middle aged and older men who are disdainful of younger men who curse, speak disrespectfully around women and openly paw at them.
    Yes, there will always be exceptions of all age brackets but these shouldn’t be confused with a particular “type” of man, rather they fit into a bracket know as the a$$hole and are easily recognised and can be heard from a distance.

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    Mute Fiona deFreyne
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:43 PM

    An excerpt from an English translation of the letter

    ‘This summary justice has already had its victims: men who’ve been disciplined in the workplace, forced to resign, and so on., when their only crime was to touch a woman’s knee, try to steal a kiss, talk about “intimate” things during a work meal, or send sexually-charged messages to women who did not return their interest.”

    The letter defends the right of men to “ bother” women, to importune them, even if not wanted, to do so in the workplace with no regard to the seniority of their position or the misuse of position to take advantage.

    The letter reflects an old fashioned view of men as primitive, lacking sophistication, needing to be free to try to pick up women in work, to do so with any women, including those in a professional role.

    It is interesting that the 100 women are all self employed, free agents, independent, successful. Looking at the age profile, these are women who are well established and at least half of them are over 60 years of age.

    I was surprised to see that a woman ought not to feel traumatised by a man or men rubbing up against them in the Metro.

    The letter assumes that their defence of men is equivalent to opposing censorship in the arts but that is a separate issue.

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    Mute Philip O Brien
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    Jan 10th 2018, 11:49 PM

    @Fiona deFreyne: Here’s a link to the original letter, in French. The translation in English is both incomplete and incorrect.

    http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2018/01/09/nous-defendons-une-liberte-d-importuner-indispensable-a-la-liberte-sexuelle_5239134_3232.html#eaS2UVg9T1IXi0cj.99

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    Mute Philip O Brien
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:16 AM

    @Philip O Brien: Since Le Monde has a paywall, the complete letter can be found here. It’s a lot more elegant than the English translation

    https://www.reddit.com/r/france/comments/7p66d6/nous_d%C3%A9fendons_une_libert%C3%A9_dimportuner/?st=jc9q6hgq&sh=759dc0a7

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    Mute Philip O Brien
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:41 AM

    @neilo: The sentiment is only the same if you base that sentiment on a prejudiced (where you decide in advance, possibly based on your life experiences or on the hype already surrounding this issue) misreading of an already imprecise translation.

    16
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    Mute Veronica
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    Jan 10th 2018, 9:57 PM

    “Witch Hunt against men” uh huh.

    41
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    Mute Irish Patriot
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    Jan 10th 2018, 9:58 PM

    @Veronica: Oh you’re back. Stone cold sober as a matter of fact.

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    Mute Veronica
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    Jan 10th 2018, 9:59 PM

    @Irish Patriot: not really bud.

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    Mute shanekeogh
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    Jan 10th 2018, 9:59 PM

    @Veronica: shes right its snowballing

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    Mute Nick Allen
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:19 PM

    @shanekeogh:

    A bit of snowballing can be exciting

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    Mute Boutros Boutros-Ghali
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:22 PM

    @Nick Allen: ew

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    Mute Irish Patriot
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:26 PM

    @Boutros Boutros-Ghali: Just Googled that. Wish I hadn’t. Gross.

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    Mute Grotmaster
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:35 PM

    @Irish Patriot: Tasting your own isn’t great but it’s a hell of a lot better than tasting someone else’s.

    14
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    Mute Gulliver Foyle
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:44 PM

    @Veronica: how come the french articles about this refer to Mme Deneuve as an “actrice”, whereas the only refer to her as a generic actor here? Misandrists such as Veronica have ruined gender in the news.

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    Mute Irish Patriot
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:48 PM

    @Grotmaster: Haven’t we all tasted our own? I can’t be the only one… can I?….

    11
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    Mute Seamus Ryan
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    Jan 10th 2018, 11:16 PM

    @Nick Allen: sure wasn’t the film just great

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    Mute Mark Gearey
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    Jan 11th 2018, 6:57 AM

    @Gulliver Foyle: Brilliant point. You must be clever.

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    Mute Denis Mc Kenna
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:44 PM

    And I use to laugh at men with inflatable dolls.Guess who’s laughing now.

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    Mute Kieran Conroy
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:06 AM

    This women is a real women.Not a dirty,man hating feminist.She understands human nature.

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    Mute Tom&Gerry
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    Jan 11th 2018, 1:05 AM

    @neilo: Catherine Deneuve is and all the other real women who signed, I think this should be posted on twitter, lets just see how many women and men around the world agree with her stance, I would say all the feminatzis would be in for a big surprise, they thought they had the men of the world beaten, with their witch hunt. This turn of events is going to be epic.

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    Mute Tom&Gerry
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    Jan 11th 2018, 1:07 AM

    @Tom&Gerry: the letter should be posted on twitter.

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    Mute Sensword Byhax
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    Jan 10th 2018, 10:34 PM

    AMAB is not an argument. Nor is branding half the human race ”pigs”.

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    Mute María Eugenia Baiardi
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    Jan 10th 2018, 11:40 PM

    So you guys are ok if your daughters, mothers or sisters are fondled on the metro. You’ll them it was a non-event.

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    Mute DaisyChainsaw
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    Jan 10th 2018, 11:57 PM

    @María Eugenia Baiardi: It’s okay when they do the fondling of other people’s daughters mothers or sisters though.

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    Mute Philip O Brien
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:28 AM

    @María Eugenia Baiardi: <>

    Try again to twist the words. You’re doing great for someone shooting at non-existent ducks.

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    Mute Philip O Brien
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:29 AM

    @Philip O Brien: Elle peut veiller à ce que son salaire soit égal à celui d’un homme, mais ne pas se sentir traumatisée à jamais par un frotteur dans le métro, même si cela est considéré comme un délit. Elle peut même l’envisager comme l’expression d’une grande misère sexuelle voire comme un non-événement.

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    Mute Tom&amp;Gerry
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:32 AM

    @María Eugenia Baiardi: Dream on Maria.

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    Mute Tom&amp;Gerry
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:34 AM

    @DaisyChainsaw: You are making this scenario up, where and when has this ever happened to you , and what did you do about it?

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    Mute Virtual Architect
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    Jan 11th 2018, 7:08 AM

    @María Eugenia Baiardi: Who said fondling people on the metro is OK? I’d beat up someone for doing that. But even when an issue does exist you can depend on feminists to blow it statistically out of proportion and use it as a political stick to beat society with. e.g. Rape culture on campus?? I’ve had women tell me they’d like to be forced to have sex. I’ve never accepted that invitation as it’s insane and against my principles, but it just shows how bonkers and dangerous many women can be.

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    Mute Mark Gearey
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    Jan 11th 2018, 7:55 AM

    @Philip O Brien: could you translate that for me?

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    Mute Tom&amp;Gerry
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:46 PM

    @Virtual Architect: Great post.

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    Mute Sean Mac Cárthaigh
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    Jan 10th 2018, 11:04 PM

    Women have been victims of male dominance and unfairly treatedvand objectified. There should have geen an outrage years sgo in hollywood. The suffragettes should never be forgotten. However this me too reaction or counter action seems yo be based on anger hatred and is not benefitial for hatmonious society

    19
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    Mute Brendan McLaughlin
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    Jan 10th 2018, 11:39 PM

    No doubt there are dirty poor old men and dirty old men who are rich and powerful.
    Same goes for women.
    Guilt is for law to decide on case by case.
    It’s all about the circumstances; the environment and the intention.
    No man or women should resist calling the police due to inferred intimidation or loss of career or monetary gain.
    Not even stardom should make a person think twice about telling the police.
    Men too, should take a stand and demand no more sexually explicit bombardments of the senses.
    Let’s put an end to the all pervasive sexualisation of women.
    Both men and women should behave themselves but, pop videos etc are porn aimed at kids.
    Let’s have a campaign about that.
    No excuses!
    Sexual grooming and manipulation is wrong no matter where it comes from.
    Just saying like.

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    Mute Mark Gearey
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    Jan 11th 2018, 7:24 AM

    @Brendan McLaughlin: Jibber jabber.

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    Mute Kevin Geraghty
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:22 AM

    Attacks on #metoo are similar to attacks on #blacklivesmatter. They are made by those who don’t have to suffer the consequences of misogyny and racism.

    18
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    Mute Dj
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:41 AM

    @Kevin Geraghty: Critizing or having different opinions is not an “attack”. Stop being so dramatic. Anyone can suffer racism, regardless of their political opinions so your comment is bollox anyway.

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    Mute Irish Patriot
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    Jan 10th 2018, 9:57 PM

    #pasmoi

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    Mute Lad
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    Jan 10th 2018, 11:12 PM

    @Irish Patriot: femenists are the people version of Henry Ford’s line you can have any colour as long as its black. They also defeat their own purpose of empowering women to have a voice when they can’t have an opinion of their own.

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    Mute DaisyChainsaw
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    Jan 10th 2018, 11:25 PM

    @Lad: Mansplaining 101.

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    Mute Harry Sheils
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:02 AM

    @DaisyChainsaw: why do you hate men DaisyChainsaw? Why do you label them all the same and tar them with a brush of disgust? I’m genuinely interested in what goes through the mind of someone like you and the motivation/insecurity that propels assumptions and dislike for millions of people you have never met.

    Do you feel unworthy as a person? Do you think your ugly? How have men wronged you so badly for you to become bitter and toxic?

    You need to love yourself more and stop being outraged about things you have no control over. Be productive and take care of the things you can control.

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    Mute Nollaig Elliot
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:11 AM

    @Lad: Surely you know by now that people having different opinions is a lambasting offence around here. How dare you point that out. I am now offended on other people’s behalf.

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    Mute Brian Smith
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    Jan 11th 2018, 2:03 AM

    No one should be sexually assaulted in the workplace and I admire any woman who comes forward if it happens to them,. I will teach my boys to respect and treat woman as equals, never hold open doors for them, never compliment there looks or flirt with them unless they have written permission to do so, never be in a position where they can be accused of anything. I will always remind them that they are decent, well brought up boys, who just happen to be of a sex that is now stereotyped!
    You all happy now?

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    Mute Ciara Ni Mhurchu
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    Jan 11th 2018, 8:09 AM

    @Brian Smith: As a woman, i hold doors open for anyone in the immediate vaccinity. Their genitals are irrelevant.
    I also won’t grab your son’s genitals or put my hands on them or try to kiss them.
    Hopefully you’ll be just as decent to women as will your son’s.

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    Mute Brian Smith
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:05 PM

    @Ciara Ni Mhurchu: don’t think I mentioned anything about anyone’s genitalia in my post, unlike you!!!! You are the type of person I will advise them to run a million miles from. As you are the type of person who makes accusations and generalisations about them due to their sex!!! Have an unhappy lonely life.

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    Mute Róisín Daly
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:33 PM

    @Brian Smith: there is a difference between chatting up a person saying nice things etc. Say nice dress you look good etc, do not say nice tits ar*e c*ck cos at the end of the day the tits and a*ses and c*cks are attached to a brain and are human beings. Not hard really.

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    Mute Tom&amp;Gerry
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    Jan 11th 2018, 1:14 PM

    @Brian Smith: Well said Brian, despite my user name i am a woman, i feel exactly as you do. I am very concerned for my sons growing up in this crazy world.

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    Mute Tom&amp;Gerry
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    Jan 11th 2018, 1:17 PM

    @Róisín Daly: Brian never mentioned any of those crude descriptions of male and female genitalia, you did. Speaks volumes about the type of person you really are.

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    Mute Róisín Daly
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    Jan 11th 2018, 2:53 PM

    @Tom&Gerry: no Brian didn’t but men have said that to me and worse separating my body parts from me as a person. I do apologise for hurting your feelings calling parts of the body for what they are that we all have both men and women. Tits ar*e co*ks! Ha ha ye are offended by the word boobs? Grow up love

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    Mute Tom&amp;Gerry
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    Jan 12th 2018, 1:41 AM

    @Róisín Daly: I don’t understand the need for your crudeness, especially on a subject like this. But maybe that is just the type of woman or man you are.

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    Mute Ciara Ni Mhurchu
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    Jan 11th 2018, 7:23 AM

    The number of men commenting on here who seem to think that touching women or kissing them is Ok without their consent is frightening.
    Lads, if your sister, mother or daughter came home some evening upset because a man touched her inappropriately without her consent would it be acceptable to you?

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    Mute Ciara Ni Mhurchu
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    Jan 11th 2018, 8:12 AM

    @neilo: I can now Neil! #poormen
    Half the men commenting on here blame all Muslims when there’s an attack by a Muslim. By their logic we could blame all men for rape and sexual assault.

    I adore the men in my life but I’m sad for the female relatives of some men on here. They’re sexual assault apologists.

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    Mute Róisín Daly
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    Jan 11th 2018, 11:39 AM

    @Ciara Ni Mhurchu: they are trolling for the sake me thinks.

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    Mute Tom&amp;Gerry
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    Jan 11th 2018, 12:53 PM

    @neilo: I am so happy that you have finally seen the light. Yes neilo, there is a war on men, but as you can see the men are fighting back, it’s everywhere, cant you see it, well done lads, don’t back down, no matter what names you are called.

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    Mute Tom&amp;Gerry
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    Jan 11th 2018, 1:02 PM

    @Ciara Ni Mhurchu: I’ts best not to bring race into this, it only confuses the issue. This debate is good, men are fighting back, it is so good to know that there are good honest beautiful successful women who like men, who do not look on all men as predators, who enjoy, being seduced and flirted with. For a while there it looked like it was curtains for the male populations of the world, now its time to put you men hating feminists back in your box. Just marvellous.

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    Mute Tom&amp;Gerry
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    Jan 11th 2018, 1:24 PM

    @Ciara Ni Mhurchu: What about if my son came home, upset because a woman had touched him inappropriately without his consent, would it be acceptable to me, definitely not.

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    Mute Tom&amp;Gerry
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    Jan 12th 2018, 1:47 AM

    @neilo: Just trying to point out to you that sexual harassment works both ways, sometimes it’s the men who are guilty and sometimes it’s the women.

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    Mute Mark Gearey
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    Jan 11th 2018, 8:48 AM

    I don’t get what’s so wrong with the metoo thing. A lot of women have been assaulted and worse. A lot of them made little or nothing of it at the time. So they’re walking around with these awful stories only a few of their close friends know about. And their assaulters for the most part got away without even having to answer an accusation. So some women to show solidarity with each other and particularly their fellow victims decided to share their stories. Also to let the world know that this stuff is so prevalent which some people might not realise because it’s hard to talk about. That’s the gist right? What’s so wrong with that? I’ve heard way too many terrible stories from exes, friends and family long before this metoo thing. I’m glad people are trying to make it easier to talk about and harder for the rapist assaulter to get away with. Some people here. And apparently some famous women in France think it’s a bad thing. WTF? As the kids say.

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    Mute Gareth Cooney
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    Jan 11th 2018, 1:39 PM

    @Mark Gearey: the reason the men “got away” with these crimes is because they were not reported to the police at the time.

    Officer, he made an unwanted sexual advance at me…..

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    Mute Mark Gearey
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    Jan 11th 2018, 6:01 PM

    @Gareth Cooney: I never mentioned any men. And I definitely wasn’t talking about unwanted sexual advances. Read it again. I make reference to friends and family of mine who were abused, assaulted etc. Have you seriously never had a woman in your life tell you a story like that. Are you seriously reducing all rape, sexual abuse and assault to unwanted advances. Read my post again maybe or gfy if you prefer.

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    Mute Mark Gearey
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    Jan 11th 2018, 6:13 PM

    @Gareth Cooney: There’s a story on the Journal today about a 14 year old girl forced into prostitution by three young men. You probably think she should get over herself. It was only a series of unwanted sexual advances after all right?

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    Mute Mark Gearey
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    Jan 11th 2018, 6:33 PM

    @Gareth Cooney: You are equating rape with an unwanted sexual advance. Have you ever made an unwanted sexual advance? I’d join the dots for you but the Journal’s scatter gun moderation might block or remove my comment again. I’ll have to ban myself again before I make a death threat or something.

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    Mute Mark Gearey
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    Jan 11th 2018, 6:38 PM

    @Mark Gearey: yeah, sorry for being here Mr/Ms Journal. The SF guys are fun but this is my limit. Back to more sane comments sections with me. Sorry for all the drama. It’s like watching Jeremy Kyle and complaining about the calibre of the guests.

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    Mute Sean Mac Cárthaigh
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    Jan 10th 2018, 11:04 PM

    Women have been victims of male dominance and unfairly treatedvand objectified. There should have geen an outrage years sgo in hollywood. The suffragettes should never be forgotten. However this me too reaction or counter action seems yo be based on anger hatred and is not benefitial for hatmonious society

    11
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    Mute funkytown
    Favourite funkytown
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    Jan 10th 2018, 11:05 PM

    Fair play to Murphy brown.

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    Mute kellaney
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    Jan 11th 2018, 9:28 AM

    @Nollaig Elliot: I think the point is that society treat it as a non event because its difficult to successfully prove in court to elicit a justified conviction. Because people don’t bother as its not worth the additional stress it has been taken that this is now approval for behaviour that is clearly disrespectful and unwanted

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    Mute Róisín Daly
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    Jan 11th 2018, 6:07 AM

    So if a bloke was on the train/ bus/ office and some big gorgeous gay dude decided to put his hands on your a*se some of ye lads here would be OK with that? You too would be mouthing off to the world! This #metoo movement was started by a African woman ten years ago. If you are fathers of female children are you going to teach them that’s it’s what you have to expect and to put up and shut up. No I didn’t think so….

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    Mute Virtual Architect
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    Jan 11th 2018, 7:13 AM

    @Róisín Daly: I would expect and encourage my daughter to speak out at the time of any incident, but not suddenly come out with it years later having said or done nothing.

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    Mute Mark Gearey
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    Jan 11th 2018, 8:35 AM

    @Virtual Architect: So if she wanted to come out with it years later, to show solidarity with other women, you’d say what to her exactly? It’s too late, it’s not fair on the man now cos the trail has gone cols? You know a lot of women found it hard to accuse people immediately after the event. Probably they got the impression they should just let it slide and/or they wouldn’t be believed.

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    Mute Ciara Ni Mhurchu
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    Jan 11th 2018, 8:48 AM

    @Virtual Architect: So YOU expect your daughter to mention her sexual abuse or assault around the time it happens? As a 37 year old woman I can assure you that’s not how trauma works.
    It can take years for a woman to feel it’s ok to say she has been abused.
    The shame and stigma associated with abuse makes it difficult to acknowledge that you have been abused and attitudes like yours add to that shame and stigma. Another reason men tend not to report their abuse at all.

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    Mute Róisín Daly
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    Jan 11th 2018, 11:37 AM

    @Virtual Architect: I see you didn’t answer my other question about some lad putting his hands on your ar*e without your permission.

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    Mute Martin Murphy
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    Jan 11th 2018, 1:01 AM

    She’s probably in denial.

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    Mute Thomas John Whyte
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    Jan 11th 2018, 4:01 PM

    “Counterblast”. My god, what a stupid word!

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