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THE GOVERNMENT HAS warned that a referendum may be held to override judges’ discretion in the awarding of compensation claims if they do not reduce whiplash and similar injury payouts within the next two years.
Minister with the responsibility for insurance, Michael D’Arcy described the payouts as “the most expensive in the world” and suggested to the Irish Independent that if the proposed Judicial Council does not lower awards for minor injuries, the Government will do so, holding a referendum.
However, Fianna Fáil’s Business spokesperson, Billy Kelleher said that if the Government plans on intervening in judicial discretion, it should firmly outline its case as to why they believe this is a suitable approach.
“This shouldn’t be an adhoc or knee-jerk move considering the precedent it would set and the implications of so.
Kelleher concluded that he is concerned that the claim made by D’Arcy is designed to directly interfere with the judiciary in the State.
“There are a number of recommendations put forward by the chairperson of the Personal Injuries Commission that should be examined and implemented foremost to alleviate the cost of claims and before a referendum should even be properly considered,” Kelleher said in a statement.
Average award in whiplash case over €20,000
Michael D’Arcy’s comments come after data provided by the Personal Injuries Assessment Board revealed that the average award for a whiplash case is over €20,000.
For the first six months of this year, the average award for a whiplash case was €18,581 in general damages (pain and suffering) with a further €1,456 in special damages which covers payment for medical expenses and loss of earnings.
In an interview with the Irish Independent today D’arcy said:
“If the judges don’t, then the matter will have to be reviewed by the Oireachtas.
“If a referendum is required, we will go with a referendum so that the Oireachtas does have the legal authority to set awards.”
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No problem with reducing payouts but can we than get a guarantee from the insurance companies that they will reduce their premiums?….thought not.
@Ger Murphy:
Thanks,I was after forgetting about that snake..but easy to miss an individual in a vipers den of ineptitude..
@Caoimhin O’Murchadha: FBD Insurance made a profit of around €50 million in 2017 and €12 million in 2016 whilst telling their customers they had to increase premiums to cover increased claims. Look at the profits and decide if their premium increases are justified. They obviously believe their customers are stupid.
@Caoimhin O’Murchadha: Until this pre-meditated collaberated rip off from the insurance industry came about I would never have pursued an injury claim in an accident. Having been ripped off by these insurance companies for the last 4 years, I would certainly consider it now
We’ve bigger corruption issues than whiplash to hold a referendum over
@Pajo Mata: hear hear. The burd2n is always put on the working class people & I for one do not want to see one injured person denied their compensation. we have a desperate history of state abuse of victims & we would do well to remember the working class people of this country are its life blood. If there’s fraud investigate it. there’s plenty of legislation to prosecute fraudsters. If that course of action is too expensive then there’s where the change is needed.
@Pajo Mata: Well I can’t believe this is the issue the government decides to have words about considering the recent sentences for truly barbaric crimes with time suspended or double murders/rapes not bothering to count past the first crime, giving concurrent sentences.
@Pajo Mata: such as?
@Mjhint: who said anything about working class, or any other class?
If you suffer an injury (because of someone else) you should be compensated… But not rewarded.
What about a Referendum on what people want? Never agree to privatise Water. Insurance companies making billions and increasing premiums to meet their shareholders expectations! My heart bleeds
@Mark Hosford: because it’s the working class this is aimed at where most of the injuries occur.
@Mark Hosford: just to add there is no reward for those injured. Very often there’s only support.
@Mjhint: You have missed the point. This is not about fraud or abuse. This is about reining in judges who award the highest damages in Europe for whiplash. It’s about the compensation culture we taxpayers are all forced to support.
Having had a genuine whip lash injury due to a hit and run accident, the lady was later caught. I’m actually embarrassed to tell people, all I hear is how much are u claiming for, iv been off work for a month on my 10th physio session and still in pain, and I don’t know when I will be better , there are genuine people out there.
@Nan: exactly whiplash can be devastating and can cause all sorts in neurological issues. Whiplash can cause instability in the cranial cervical junction which long term can be disabling. Knee jerk reaction from government at the behest of insurance companies who are scalping us all.
@Nell foran: I had very bad whiplash last March and was in agony for 3 months. I settled with the insurance company after much medical treatment Inc physio doc visits and scans an0d fully deserve every penny I got. I know there are scam artists out there but for genuine proven cases, it should reflect the damage
@Suzanne Mc Aleenan: can’t prove whiplash. That’s the issue
its a wonder anyone bothers playing the lottery in this country. .far easier to sue Dublin city council after throwing yourself to the ground on a footpath, or if you prefer the wind in your hair then go surf a tram
@Dean Anderson: Exactly.
A person bumps into the back of my car,nothing wrong with me but I claim whiplash,who is to say different and I get a lump sum. Rather than a payout,a person who thinks they have whiplash be given a few physio treatments and take it from there. That would see off your bogus claims. Insurance companies need to cop on especially when it’s our money they are dealing with.
@Mark Jones: you would have to have doctors backup your claim of whiplash
@Barry Somers: just give the doc the old I’m whiplashed act, sore and stiff neck,headaches and don’t forget to throw in back pain for good measure
While I agree that whiplash payments may be far to high(and open to abuse) we need to ensure that settlements are fair.
Comparing us to the UK is a fallacy as there’s the NHS treatment. Anyone looking to get healthcare in Ireland following an accident will have a hefty medical bill.
Isn’t the best thing to make awards on the basis of a small payment with full costs.
@Bluechip78: A recent article in the Irish Independent regarding motor insurance claimed that €276m in compensation can be accounted for during 2017. That figure is made up of €107m awarded by the courts (excluding the €100m relating to medical negligence) and €169m in PIAB awards. However, the annual premium income for insurers on motor and liability is around €2.3bn, that leaves a black hole of €2bn every year.
It’s one thing saying that claims for a particular medical issue in this country are unusually high, while at the same time ignoring the extraordinarily high profits the insurance industry here makes. One cannot be addressed in isolation without addressing the other too. Yet that’s what’s being asked, to accept that an industry already making €2 billion per year in profits in this country alone is paying out too much, and if we do’n do something our premiums will go up. In short we’ll have to pay, again, profits will simply increase further.
@Bluechip78: Not a bad idea. Still need the referendum, though…
Have a word with Fine Gael TD Alan Farrell what the payout for whiplash should be, he has a bit of experience with it….
@Pixie McMullen: You got there before me!! Total over exaggerated bogus claim, Darcy is the biggest spoofer in Wexford, got his seat from his daddy. Leadership comes from the top and our politicians lead by example
@Ger Murphy:
Got his seat from his constituents too, surely?
@Pixie McMullen: What’s whiplash called when it’s in your wrist lol.
Government warning. We have more RefernDumbs lined up for you. But not on any subjects you feel are important. Such as Water charges, or outrageous salaries and expenses enjoyed by us, your lads in the Fail and Seanad.
Why should we have the expense of another Referendum in this matter when it should be dealt with under Legislation.
@Joe Keena:
Ever heard of the Constitution?
@Joe Keena: That’s what the whole article is about. If the judiciary aren’t going to do it, then the government plans to use a referendum to be able to overrule them.
The reason a referendum is required is that the judiciary (Courts) is separate to the executive branch (Dail) of government as part of the checks and balances to power.
The government can’t just overrule the courts, as then the courts would be undermined by overreach of the executive branch and would remove the impartiality.
Hope this helps clarify!
@Fergus: there’s nothing to stop the Dáil bringing in limits to whiplash payments and seeing if that legalisation is challenged in the courts. The Dáil already sets that max prison terms for criminal offences.
If the law is found to be repugnant to the constitution then by all means have a referendum.
How about a referendum to reduce fuel costs, or electricity, or paye prsi, or house tax, or mortgage interest,or even the size of our civil service. Now some or all of those reduced would be very welcome.
Not before time. Sick of paying trough the teeth for insurance to pay for the crazy awards people get in this country. A simple case can be dragged on for years & the legal profession are creaming it on the back of these claims. This can’t come quick enough & insurance companies must be forced to tow the line with reduced premiums too.
How about a referendum to reduce the amount of money politicians pay themselves, umpteen types of unwarranted compensation packages there. Leo and coveney have accumulated over 1.6 million euro pension pots already, only in their forties, and after 7 years in gov. Its obscene and totally unjustified. Hopefully somebody will have the sense to reform and reduce these payments at some point in the future, to make them more reasonable because currently they are way too high.
They wear the expensive suits, they pay themselves the big money, but they are severely lacking in ability to do their jobs.
@Adrian:
It’s called a general election.
If Ireland can’t get its act together on Car Insurance then just copy the Australian system:
-Rego & compulsory third party car insurance offered as a package by State Government (You can’t have rego without current personal injury injury insurance)
with the same flat rate for all and a Nominal Defender to moderate personal injury claims (legislation in place limiting max claims per category of injury.)*
-Comprehensive car Insurance & Third Party Property offered privately as an optional
extra
The Result:
I have similar cars in both jurisdictions:
Australia: Comprehensive Car Insurance in AUS: $199 AUD/P/A
+ $360 Personal injury insurance embedded in Government Rego Payment
Total Aussie Car Insurance= $559 AUD (352 Euros P/A)
Ireland: E3200 P/A (unaffordable and my Irish car sits in my Garage because it is cheaper to rent a car when needed) I live 3 months a year in Ireland so it is not
possible to change my Aussie Driving Licence to an Irish one in that period. Thanks to
Irish bureaucracy it takes four months to change my Aussie Licence to an Irish one
+ a generous 6 driving lessons and a test thrown in at my expense. I am told that
if I had an Irish Driving Licence ( I own the Irish house and an Irish Car) then the insurance premium could be reduced to E1300 roughly. I am 73, an Irish citizen all my life and over 30 years of no claim driving.
To the outside world Irish Car Insurance is a bit of an Irish joke. Obviously the system is crook and needs fixing but the Irish Government and its politicians are asleep at the wheel. Who’s up who here and who’s pocketing the Billions?
Look here, if we can’t produce a product economically we import it. We obviously can’t
deliver competitive car insurance by Global standards so why not import a system and my recommendation based on my experience is to import the Aussie system.
* Australia has very few fake whiplash injury claims because of our car insurance
regulations and our enforced fraud laws.
20 years ago there was one ethnic group down here who were staging rear enders
and claiming whiplash but that was knocked in the head quick smart. The Gardai
have to get out there stop the fraudulent personal injury claims rather than internal bullying and bickering and the Government has to support them with proper legislation
similar to that of Australia.
@Moorooka Mick:
Car in France and Ireland.
France €185 pa insurance for 25 yr old 3L diesel.
Ireland €485 pa insurance for 11yr old 1.8 petrol.
€300 extra paid in Ireland …. Ripoff
Refused insurance on my 20 yr old 2L petrol in Ireland – with an NCT!!
Same Insurance Company in both countries … begins with A……
Sign the Petition to reach 50,000 https://www.change.org/p/irish-motor-insurance-ripoff
Ireland a failed political entity … homes, health, insurance, car tax, pensions, …..
Dont outsource Insurance .. outsource the Political System … maybe join Brexit!
This has much more serious consequences about the separation Of powers and independence of the judicary. Let the government interfere in this and they will think they can put pressure on all sorts of areas.
@Nell foran: but it’s not the government that will be interfering. They would facilitate a referendum where the people of the country would be “interfering”. How is this a bad thing? It is the people who should be deciding what type of country we want. I would be in favor of an annual referendum day where different issues are put to the people. I would be starting with sentencing for violent crimes.
You would get worse whiplash on the bumpers at an amusement park. So many of these claims are fake.
Where is our referendum to enshrine our water in the constitution so that it cannot be owned by profiteers.
D’Arcy is a major spoofer, what about his colleagues Alan Farrell’s bogus injury claim earlier this year?
http://www.thesun.ie/news/2827484/alan-farrell-fine-gael-td-photo-ladder-court/amp/
Whiplash is a myth , you’ve either physically damaged something which can be determined by MRI or X-ray or you’re a career spoofer ! It’s up to the medical profession to stop supporting this nonsense like the majority of mental illness .
@lapsy pa: A myth until you have actually suffered it. I can tell you it’s real and can be long term
@Nan: sorry there but you’re wrong , there is zero credible physical evidence to support the idea of whiplash unless you’ve broken a bone or damaged muscle or nerves which are all physically detectable , so unless you’ve a physical condition it’s all in your head ! Which is good news for you , change your thoughts and you’ll be back to normal and you can reimburse the insurance company
@lapsy pa: that’s why you won’t get compensated in Germany
@lapsy pa: bullsh*t you can stretch or rupture your alar ligament that causes cranial cervical instability which in turn causes brainstem compression. So you need to actually research the facts. If you knew someone who had to have occipital or cervical fusion you might think differently
I’m taking an add out next week in the newspaper job section. It’ll be something like this ….. Person wanted to sit around all day scratching their arse phone ####### .. and leave the phone number of Leinster house…
Insurance companys are creaming it ,and getting clowns like darcy to defend them.
@@mdmak33: They blamed PMPA in the 80′s, that hike just never went away I think???
How to get €16K compo from this insurance company without really trying (no Doctor required) Well worth a read. https://bit.ly/2T3S8OA
No mention of reducing road tax or insurance to reflect UK premiums though. And the potholes here would give you a whiplash fair easy if you weren’t watching like a hawk. Come back lads about a ref when we have safe decent roads to drive on! Greedy ins companies chancing their arm.
Shouldn’t they be referring the prison sentences instead?
Here’s an auld off the wall. If the Government are going to have a referendum to force judges to only allowed say € 5000 max. For whiplash. On the same day we can have a referendum to force judges to impose mandatory life on murderers and drug dealers with No parole Like that’s going to happen oh did I mention pedophiles
Scrap the direct payments and get the insurance to pay the medical bills. Problem solved
There are more spoons in the pot than the claimants. It takes medical assessors, lawyer teams, perhaps engineers, as well.
Be interesting to know the cuts that go to these experts.
Must be highly lucrative, & have very significant impact on costs.
all cash pay outs should be banned. onely therapy costs and such should be covered payed for no money
oh! the whiplash part of the constitution must be article 51 what kind of numptys come out with this poop
I mean numptys did I already say numptys maby we should have a referendum on using the word numpty
What about a referendum on the stupid draconian drink driving laws, they are shutting down everything outside the pale.
When I don’t have to pay €50-60 for a doctor and €100 for A&E I will accept that the stats compare, until then it’s bullshit
When is the referendum on the correct shade of woodstain on garden sheds?
I would be against this referendum for two reasons.
1) The insurance companies are pursuing this to boost profits, not pass on savings to the customer.
2) We don’t have a functioning healthcare system in Ireland, if you want to get better after an accident, you will pay for it in order to see the right professionals. Sure, there are those that are scamming insurance companies but it’s up to them to prove it.
Irish need to get rid of “Fake TDs” and bring their brains to the Polling booths and elect Real TDs to pass proper laws limiting insurance awards to realistic, “community affordable, benchmarked” levels.
This in no way will adversely impact on the independent and unique role WE bestow on the judiciary in assessing liability NOT AWARDS and would not be in contravention of the Constitution … Irish daft stuff with a unique ability to vanish up their own …!
have your say