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THE UK FINALLY has a Brexit deal, but Theresa May needs to win over her own Cabinet and potentially rebellious MPs before the deal can progress any further.
She gave ministers individual briefings on the outline of the deal this evening, with a crunch time Cabinet meeting tomorrow set to sign off on the text.
This deal would, crucially, avoid a hard border in Northern Ireland with a backstop coming in the form of a temporary UK-wide customs arrangement, with specific rules for Northern Ireland
The Irish government has said nothing is confirmed yet but a government spokesperson said the situation is “fast-moving”.
With a deal finally in sight, the front pages of the UK’s newspapers are all putting their spin on the agreement.
The Daily Mail has gone with simply “Judgement Day”, but added that “Tory rebels cry betrayal and warn PM’s ‘days are numbered’”.
The Times said: “May accused of betrayal as she unveils Brexit deal.”
The Daily Express has opted for: “This Brexit deal is best for Britain.”
The Daily Telegraph’s headline reads “May faces ‘moment of truth’ on Brexit deal”.
The Guardian, meanwhile, said: “Brexit: May tells her Cabinet, this is the deal – now back me.”
The Scotsman opted for “May braced for Cabinet revolt over Brexit deal”.
The i has gone with “Deal Done” while the Metro has said “Brexit deal on the table”.
With reporting from Christina Finn
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This is going to be a long,long,long,long ,long ,thread
Nice to meet you Ben.
Oh yeah. And what will their other hand be doing❓
Maybe But I just have one question… Are SF trying to out-FF in their populism. Arragh have 20 instead of one… Bring on the recession and the high taxes and the fairy tale economics. Makes Martin O Donoghue look logical does Pearse Doherty.
Sinn Féin have based their economic policy not on a traditional Keynsian supply and demand model but rather on the older Magic Beans system which they will marry with tried and tested protection racket fund raising. #casseroleofnonsense
Keynesian economics is exactly why we are on the shitter in the first place in case you haven’t noticed,
Apparently if SF get into power they are also going to get rid of winter, so we are all on one long summer break la la la la!
And the policies of FF and FG have the country in ruins. FF bankrupted the Country while FG and Labour have made every citizen of this Country repay the bank debt while also introducing property taxes and water charges. Personally I say give SF a chance, FG have proven all they care about is making Brussels happy and the hell with the hardships the people of this Country are going through.
Err Patrick that’s funny because Ireland has been following neoliberal economics, not Keynesian economics, since the late 80s and it, and it’s inherit deregulation of finance, is what got us into trouble the last time.
Neoliberal economics belongs on the trash heap of history of failed ideologies right up there with central economic planning.
Cosmo – I would prefer to live in a country that is in ruins than in any Sinn Fein run state. Morals and principles should not be for sale.
If your principals arent for sale youve been living in the wrong country all your life and if you havent notice the wholesale of principals then youve been living here with your eyes closed
Paul, you would rather live in a ruined country than give Sinn Fein a chance in improving the country.
People like you sir are whats wrong with this country.
I personally don’t give two fcuks who runs the country as long as they do a good job in running the country.
Patrick, Keynesian economics is not why we are in the shitter as you put it. Keynesian economics suggests that in times of economic plenty you save and are prudent and in times of economic woe you invest and spend. We did exactly the opposite in Ireland during the Celtic Tiger era and a primary criticism of the current austerity politics on a large scale if that it entirely ignores the rationality of Keynesian economic. Both the UK and the USA have adopted counter-cyclical monetary policies and have borrowed heavily on the spending side and it is working. In the USA, economic political populism largely fed what Alan Kingspan, the former Chair of the Federal Reserve Board, termed “irrational exuberance” and monetary policy was used to stave off adjustments in the markets which would otherwise have taken place thus leading to a financial catastrophe. Keynesian economics did not require the USA to borrow trillions to fund foreign wars while at the same time cutting taxes for the wealthy and destroying their tax base. At the root of many of our economic problems in the West lies corrupt populist politics and an ignoring of the lessons of Keynesian economics based on the arrogant belief that recessions can be managed out of existence by tweaking this and that and never directly confronting economic insanity. What largely caused the depression which we have all endured was bad economics mixed with bad politics mixed with inane and insane risk taking. In my view not much has really changed.
Helluva post, Mr John R.
THA’TS HOW YOU DEBATE!
At what stage Patrick did we implement anything close to Keynesian economic policies? 2002-2007, 2008 to present?
I think Mr Greenspan would be amused to be confused with an insulation materials company!
That slogan though sounds very FG… Repair is what they have been doing, rebuilding is what is starting to happen and renew is what they want to do in Spring 2016… Is this a subliminal message from SF? :)
Water charges are a EU directive. Can they be abolished?
I assume you mean the 1977 version Patrick…
When you are losing the argument throw dirt
Morals and Principles right……………..Haughey, Burke, Lowry to mention just three
Sorry Ahippo, I did of course mean Mr Greenspan! Feudian slip ?
a party of spoofers their essential message is tell the welfare class that they can have everything they and some guy on Ailesbury road will pay all for them.
The perfect summing up of the Shinners’ economic policy.
The magic trick by SF – want to increase the jobseekers for under 25′s by €40 – still below the levels it used to be… now imagine two years ago SF proposing cutting the jobseekers allowance? – The other parties do the heavy lifting and SF ride in on a white horse… much like how they decimated the SDLP..
I’m open to new ideas, but sf proposals – at least what was outlined on prime time last night – seemed a little undercooked. At this point, I wouldn’t trust them with the economy.
@scarr, and who would you trust with the economy?
Well, in a nutshell Brian.
The primary deficit was €12bn in 2010.
4 years later it will be eliminated.
SF opposed every measure to bring the debt crisis under control.
Its encouraging now to see that they have learned what “balanced budget” means.
Its only taken years for that penny to drop.
Brian – The Germans? But seriously, my votes will mainly go independent but for the most part noonan has steered the economy well – and while I’ve never voted FG in my life ( and won’t next election) I could be swayed to Fg if they replaced kenny with varadkar and cleared out the old cronies.
I hate all this “welfare class” rubbish. The vast vast vast majority of people on social welfare are there because they lost their jobs during the recession. That’s why the numbers on social welfare increased since 2008! These people want to work. And yes, the economy is improving but not everybody is going to get a job overnight. The state needs to provide a safety net for these people. And in any case, those who lost their jobs have paid their taxes and their PRSI. They’re entitled to it.
And here’s proof. Just look at the huge increase in the live register since 2007. Also, it’s important to point out that even those who were on the live register during the good times may also be working, albeit part-time or in a low paying job, or they may have an acute or long-term illness or disability.
So you can’t say that everybody on the live register is a sponger because that’s factually incorrect.
http://irelandafternama.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/irelandlivereg1.jpg
Ignoreland – welfare class would apply to those who never bothered working – not those who list their jobs in the depression.
Pontius – you may well be right there. Either way, I’d be relatively tempted once the current crony-culture is cleared out.
If they are a party of spoofers they aint as big as the last coalition of spoofers running the country or the spoofers before that. The country has been run into the ground for the last 15 yrs with everythi.g paid for off the backs of the middle class. If sf can balance the books off the backs of the rich for a change it will be better than getting shafted by ff/fg/labour. At least we could try out a new position while getting f¥cked
Dee4, comment of the day! I wonder have SF put some savings in the kitty for “public service efficiencies” as well. That’s usually a good sign of economic bull. It appears that SF want to tax further a group that already pay one of the highest tax rates in the EU. It has been tried before and it will not work. Wealth is mobile. Higher capital gains provides lower yields. It would in fact in a recovering economy make more sense to reduce capital gains as this is likely to lead to a greater yield due to the incentive to dispose of realise capital gains and invest elsewhere. There is a balance to be struck in all things. This ain’t it.
not according to eminent economists last night on primetime Alan…..but I guess you would not tune into RTE now
some snob the welfare class… what class are you Dee ? Is that even the correct spelling there
The pot is not bottomless. You pay insurance against a poaş ble future negative event the insurance pays out for a while. Not forever.
Predictive text and fat fingers – possible
changing the deck chairs on the titanic….FFFGlab have had ninety years of screwing this country and its people
Ignoreland two excellent posts….I apologise to you in advance for writing this as you will now be called a shinnerbot
ok, so when SF form a coalition after the next election and fail to implement these proposals, what are people going to say about them then? They will of course blame the fact that they are the junior party in coalition. I’m not necessarily picking on SF here but we all know that parties lie, lie and lie even more just to get a few votes. We as a nation continuously accept this BS from all parties. Why cant they be held accountable in law when making promises such as these to get voted?
Well if all politicians lie which they do its up to people to vote in ones who don’t lie or is there any creditable honest ones out there or is the country that bad state
It would be my preference that Sinn Féin would not enter government as a junior partner. Secondly any programme for government will be put before the before the party membership for approval. If it does not contain a commitment to remove both the LPT and the Water Tax I will vote against it. If the party go ahead and approve that programme without these measures I will resign immediately from Sinn Féin and I would imagine so would a huge amount of others, but there is no way it will come to that as these are red-line issues that we won’t compromised on.
I am afraid you are toast. The Cult does not do dissent
Brendan , Gerry , Mary-Lou and pearce have stated they will be paying the water charges , Will you also be paying the water charges ?
Well said Mr Ferrin.
Oops Mr Ferron.
Brendan – we’ll have to cut that comment out and put it away for future reference.
No I won’t. But I will do that in the full knowledge that I would get no allowance and that ultimately I could end up in the courts. But what I will not do is tell others that they MUST follow my example. I will not leave a person with a huge bill that they cannot afford, I will not have it on my conscience that their credit rating has been shredded as a result of my advice and they can no longer get a bank loan. It is my belief that these charges will only be rescinded through the Dáil when a party enters collation and makes them an absolute red-line issue, that is what we have said we will do. I think these protests could have the effect of brining that general election forward and toppling the current government and so I support those coming out this weekend on to the streets of Dublin.
I wish I had your faith in our outdated corrupt and self serving system Brendan but the whole thing needs to be torn down and rebuilt. The government are liars and unaccountable to the people for five years not just the present govt but all. As long as we have a system designed for a time when most people were seen as too ignorant and uneducated to know what’s best for them we are screwed. Get rid of the lies, answer dodging, whip system, and cronyism and make the system work for the people
By the way the issue of housing is far more important to me than the water issue and that’s being honest. Many people are being turfed out on the streets at the minute and that is the real pressing issue. Its a pity the by-election has not been about this issue.
No
speaking of yourself Joe…and I agree with Councillor Ferron just look at Junior coalition parties here the PDs, Greens and Labour…one gone , one as good as gone and one going by all appearances
Come out of the ivory tower Pilatius and you will see anger
Gabbi shows your true purpose here I would say
Brendan and Caoimhin…I wish your party would just come out and recommend non-payment. That would go a long long way to it being defeated
Miguel the move against water charges is grass roots up and not preserve of any party and I for one will not pay… note what Councillor Ferron has said that he will not pay either
Councillor you’re not fit to hold office if you are not prepared to follow the laws in this country. You should resign now.
and mcbab you should tell Councillor Ferron who it is that is calling for him to resign….
over to you Sir
don’t forget to sign:
http://www.right2water.ie/actnow and join the event
well then if they can back up this talk – its sinn fein all the way for me
Could labour in the last election? – and they didn’t because either a. they are evil and want to destroy peoples lives or b. they made promises to get elected, upon being elected they diluted their promises in order to get power… when you come up with your answer – go back and read the SF proposals.
absolutely i couldn’t agree more, actions speak louder than words… if they scrap property tax and water charges they will 100 percent have my vote on these issues alone
In fairness to Sinn Fein their proposels seem people friendly unlike our present government who seem to be only interested in looking out for themselves and big business.
oh Gabbi looks like ur on back foot today…Pearse Doherty’s performance last night , the economists reaxction has certainly thrown you off a bit today
Carefull now Pontus youy straw that you are clutching at may snap
@caoimhim,you are a great man for having a go a people who don’t agree fully with your views, you have regularly pulled people up about their spelling , check you own spelling here , maybe do a bit of night school, to try and brush up on it
Ya my spelling is atrocious sorry should have read your not youy
A party that wins an election based on promises should be forced to sign it into law or what ever way they do it on day one of taken up office, if SF is right and the can do what they say, they have my vote all the way,
Is this the same Sinn Fein that increased the Norths equivalent of property tax in every council it controls?
No it didn’t. It has been frozen since SF came into power.
True.
Its very handy having sugar-daddy George Osborne picking up the tab for our northern cousins.
Strabane increased its rate by 2.5% in February.
agh Joe 2.5% increase in Council charge is that best yoou can come up with lol
tell us what services people get for that….
We’ll use Sinn Fein interpretation. It’s 66% above the rate of inflation.
I see you still not telling us what services people get for their council charge… enuff
said
Cue the long list of fake accounts from the FGHQ fraperoom exclaiming how SF’s proposals will bankrupt the state, bring about the end of days, and cause Ireland to sink into the sea……but won’t be able to explain how or why, or dispute the Dept of Finance costed figures…….
“Because, like y’know, they just will roight”
Cue the Shinnerbots red thumbing anything that disparages Jarry and Marylooper.
I am not from the fg “fraperoom” (btw SF supporters need to be a little bit careful about using the frape word given their shenanigans last week) and I am convinced that this kind of economics takes us back to the election of 1977.
the 1977 abolition of domestic rates was beneficial to the Irish economy. Jack Lynch had the courage to eliminate domestic rates thus improving purchasing power.
This post is brought to you from the We’re Jammin (I assume that’s your real name) facebook account.
agh welcome at least one Ogra bott perhps
I appreciate you like mself have your name up but there are an inordinate number of “anonymous” accounts on this forum
Are you a fan or relative of Martin O Donoghue? The abolition of domestic rates was a disaster.
I notice Daisy you did not refute you been what Were described
I want a flying unicorn that farts diamonds.
I think I’m being more realistic than a shinner budget.
Women fart rainbows Daisy, so you’re well on the way.
words are cheap Daisy
Just proving why they’re not fit to hold power. They would have us back in bankruptcy in couple years.
like ff fg labour are doing
Pearse would be on the Telly just like Charlie Haughey was in 1980 telling us all how we’re going to have to tighten our belts after the disasterous Fianna Fail budgets of the late 1970s. We never learn in this country.
we overcame through the 80′s recession without property tax or water charges.
Eliminating the primary budget deficit in 1 term.
The opposite of bankrupting.
And what were the taxes on labour in the 80s ITS? Please explain those to the viewers!
I don’t mind income tax because I know I am paying tax on money I earn. A property doesn’t necessarily generate income. The focus should move to corporations that are exploiting our tax anomalies to pay 0% or 2% corporation tax. A FTT tax should be introduced on the IFSC, like in other European countries.
There is certainly room to look at the taxes you mention and ensure that the corporation rate is enforced. However the over reliance on a narrow tax base was what led to the madness of 2010 and calling in the IMF. It was right to spread the tax base with property based taxes and water charges. It could be done better but the principle is correct.
You do realise that the combined income taxes in the 1980s peaked at something like 65%? This was absolute madness and it wasn’t until this was eased that the economy started to take off. You don’t put all your egs in one basket and the same applies to taxes.
No it didn’t. A narrow tax base is good for most economies. For example, Hong Kong has a narrow tax base (a success story). The problem in Ireland was spending which caused the 2010 crisis.
The tax focus should move towards closing our tax loopholes on corporations and introduce a financial transaction tax, eliminate patent royalties, and other forms of tax expenditure.
Domestic taxes must be a non-runner because they are a drag on the economy.
Did you really just compare Ireland to Hong Kong?
“A narrow tax base is good”. …. ?
Ehhhh… no.
Sure wasn’t BellEnda already on the telly a good few sundays ago, enticing the nation to use a belt to asphyxi-w@nk themselves for ze Teutonic TitWitch of the EuroRaum and a vast array of neo-liberal, like blueshirted bailout beneficiaries, et al!?!
ITS student Ireland is not Hong Kong. Perhaps you should compare us to an EU country. How about oil rich Norway? It would make as much sense.
well it is good if you are not paying your fair share i spose that is what is meant
We bankrupted the country
I thought you did not want to widen the tax base its
Eliminate patent royalties?
Reg tell us enlighten us who do you recommend we vote for ?
The election promises have started. Good luck with that
Problem is – there are a lot of vulnerable people out there who will believe it.
Yet no less gullible than those who are perpetually taken in by the ‘civil war sheisters’ of Fine Fail (phonetically as béarla!) and Labour Nua!
Condescending or what //////////////////////////////////////////////
I want cheryl cole to be dancing nude in front of me every night. Its not gonna happen – and its not reality or indeed a plausible idea.
Who?
As with the last election promises by sinn fein, people discredit their proposals using hyperbole. Not actual facts.
Why, if it is costed by the department, can opposing parties not go through it point by point and prove it to be in error.
This applies for all parties for all proposals. Deconstruct the proposals instead of giving a vague reason and headline statement as to how it won’t work
Best liars seem to win based on a u turn being performed as soon as election is over
The SF wealth tax plan hopes to raise €300m per annum (according to Doherty).
That would nullify most of IW charges.
However, the problem with wealth taxes is that wealth is mobile.
€300m in year 1 would reduce & reduce as wealth is moved elsewhere.
Shinnernomics is getting there, but they are a long way off.
At least they have dropped the ridiculous & deficit shattering €13bn jobs plan.
Tax measures can be costed based on today’s figures but tax changes can change behaviour. For example Sinn Fein propose to increas Capital Gains Tax (CGT) to help pay for their giveways in other areas but in the past an increase in CGT has led to a decrease in revenue. The want to Introduce a new employers’ rate of PRSI of 15.75% on the portion of salary paid in excess of €100,000 per annum. What effect will this have on hight end employers looking to locate here and faced with the additional costs of employing someone? There’s plenty more……
These Sinn Fein proposals make no allowance for paying existing debt, or as Doherty says we can always borrow more money to pay off existing debts. You can’t beleive a word out of his mouth…
simple answer Ian they are unable to
Caoimhin. Why haven’t Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland moved to abolish Northern Ireland water and to abolish water charges? How come the district councils they control increased domestic rates (local property tax) this year?
Joe
there are no water charges in Northern Ireland.so what is not there cannot be abolished.. Sinn Fein have successfully defeated attempts to introduce a charge for water since 2007.
..click on any of the NI local councils to see what services are provided for by the Council Charge and compare it then to the myriad of charges we have here imposed by FFFG-lab… apologies I do not have a link to hand…
Yes there are, they’re included in the domestic rates which you incorrectly stated were frozen. There are also commercial water charges.
Joe there is a Council Charge do your homework… this is not comparable to a water charge… for water alone
enlighten us as to the services this Council charge covers
I never mentioned freezing of charges ever
Sorry it was your colleague Cllr Ferron making things up saying they were frozen. Same avatar. The defence used in NI for not introducing Water charges unlike the rest of the UK is that they were included in the domestic rates. Oh yes and because the whole system is bank rolled by George Osbourne. And for that matter which minister was responsible for the f**k up a couple of years where NI had to import half a million litres of drinking water from Scotland when the water system packed up? Conor Murphy is from what party?
again Joe something that does not exist cannot be frozen or melted either for that matter….
Sinn Fein have prevented water charges been introduced in NI since 2007?
The other issue you bring up prove your real purpose here (ie attack Sinn Fein )
I cannot for the life of me see how George Osborne could bank role the North all by himself …
Is there no funds raised in the North through taxes ?
Explain how Conor Murphy was responsible ???
or is it just more dirt as is your reason for been here
So SF ministers with responsibility can’t be held responsible, cool. I’ll make a note of that for the future. Taxes in the north are supplemented by Westminster cash and a hell of a lot of Civil service salaries. The system is frozen at the moment because of SFs reluctance to come off the Westminster drip, which is weird for proponents of Irish independence.
Attack SF? This thread is about SFs budget submission is it not? And if you get to promote a Sinn Fein Candidate in an unrelated by-election why can’t people comment about inconsistencies between northern and southern SF policies.
People in NI do pay taxes a chara ,
the system is frozen as Sinn Fein is defending the ordinary people against austerity attack from DUP and the Tory government…
You are free to comment who is trying to stop you….People have died for the freedom to comment , yours and mine…..
I have not promoted any Sinn Fein candidate in this thread
They’re like Fianna Fail from the ’70s but on steroids!
the abolition of rates in 1977 was good because it simplified the tax code and helped us overcome the 1980′s crisis.
The Fianna Fail budgets of the late 1970s were disasterous and added to the huge economic crisis of the early 80s. Remember Charlie coming on the TV telling us to tighen our belts? Rates needed reform not abolition. They got rid of motor tax and had to reintroduce it again shortly afterwards. The comparisons between Fianna Fail then and Sinn Fein now are obvious.
you must understand the origin of the 1980′s economic crisis:
- The oil crisis of 1976 triggered a European wide situation
- Traditional industries were waning across Europe at the time
- Farming industries (old style ones) were becoming inviable
- The emergence of automation in factories replacing direct labor
Had rates been retained, it would have acted as an additional tax thus prolonging the 1980′s crisis. Fair enough, motor tax should have been kept. But domestic taxes were right to have been scrapped.
Rates weren’t the problem in the 1970s ITS, it was the mad rates of income taxes. The best tax regimes cast a wide net and take a bit from everywhere.
Income tax was never an issue in the 70s, domestic rates were. That is why the Government repealed them in 1977.
A wide tax net is more costly to administer, more bureaucratic, authoritarian and not successful in most countries, btw. A narrow tax base keeps the tax code simplified by attracting investment and encouraging a free enterprise.
ITS student, I can only presume you didn’t work in Ireland during the 1980s. The crisis in the 1980s was caused by many factors. One was over-borrowing. Another was sky hide tax rates. Yet another was the welfare trap which meant that it was not worth your while taking a job if below a certain income because you would lose money going off welfare. Ireland in the 1980s was an economic basket case with a small imploding private sector and a truculent public sector. It was the economic populism of FF in the late 1970s and early 1980s which led to the scrapping of rates and a massive borrowing splurge to fund public expenditure which largely led to Ireland’s 1980 woes.
ITS Student, isn’t ‘narrow tax base’ just a term for ‘tax anyone but me’
Looks like a lot of IBEC members on here.
are u a PD of the eighties or 90s reg ?
I m not sure I would agree with that
You serious PP as has been pointed out before not everybody lives in here like you
???!!! ITS ARE YOU FOR REAL?
The FF approach in 1977 caused the crisis in the 1980s. We were just getting over the oil shock and the death of traditional industry was hastened by FF policy.
I think the real SF heads have been ordered back to barracks since the local elections… No hostages to fortune before the election in 1916. You have to admire the military discipline of this well ordered political party. Reminds me of wotshisname… Vissarionovic.. you know the failed Georgia priest with the big facial hair.
Looks like a lot of people who remember the 1977 election better than you.
I think the shinners are living in cloud cuckoo land,their proposals as usual sound great,but are they attainable?
Noel, no, they are not attainable.
Election promises don’t have to be attainable, silly.
Of course they are attainable, just because you don’t agree with them does not mean they’re bonkers by definition and it’s arrogant to think that way.
We got along nearly 100 years without a property tax, without water charges and we got along just fine, in fact we went through the biggest revenue boom in European history.
and your real problem Noel is those billions of immigrants
What were domestic rates but a property tax? Don’t lefties love property taxes?
Ryan,
I said they weren’t attainable because in my considered opinion they aren’t, its not that I don’t agree with them. Its purely based on my reading and exploring their idea. It can’t work. Obviously you think it can so there’s no point in us arguing with each other. I’m just clarifying what and why I said what I said.
At last, election promises from a man we can all trust. But i’m still not going to vote for them until they promise to do something about the plight of the leprecians.
Who will ya vote for your favourite screw the country ff, or nail the people to the wall fg and labour??
How do SF propose to pay for this? Rob banks in the UK, oh wait, they don’t do that any more!
Cue a party activist effectively defending armed robbery by trotting out a line such as “well the banks robbed us” or such like…
No just here.
The ECB would make for a proper hoist…….but then that would only retrieve what they extorted whilst being aided and abetted by their ‘insiders’ within the FF/FG/Lab ‘Axis of Austerity’!!
Thanks sin assist, I was beginning to think sf had developed a problem with criminality.
Like tax-shifty, white collar mobile/media/water meter mogul types!?
specifics EeL… you do know an eel is a fish
Caoimhin; my initial point was in response to Pronsias’ reference to the Northern Bank robbery. I was merely anticipating an attempted defence of this blatant act of violent criminality by a Sinn Fein supporter – and SinAssist duly obliged.
using the crystal ball anticipating well there you go….you do not get humour in Sinassists post … you are sad and desperate at that… its hard on you trolling for ENDA these times
Humour? The only funny thing about his post is that he unknowingly lived up to the whataboutery stereotype despite the fact that I predicted this would happen in the previous comment.
Maybe that is trolling, but what is this site for if not for trolling?
Are you saying you actually think he was saying we should rob the ECB ? Oh Wow you are serious
No, of course not, where did you get that from?
I am highlighting his insinuation that armed robbery is somehow equivalent to, and on some level justified by, what may be perceived to be unfair treatment by the ECB.
u posted it before he said anything and what he said was clearly in jest
Taken as a whole the SF proposals would decimate the SME sector. The wealth tax would force the sale of assets and close businesses while higher income taxes would act as a deterrent for anybody thinking of taking a risk and becoming and entrepreneur.
It is a good job that they want to increase the dole, because we would all be on it before long.
Indeed.
Capital acquisitions tax & Cap gains tax is already 33%….. Which is pretty high.
Raising that further may (will) have negative consequences for years.
Us small business owners still wouldn’t be automatically entiled to the dole!
That’s utter nonsense nobody is going to shut their business down just to avoid paying 1% of their worth in taxes.
That would be like me offering you 100 euro and you refusing to take it because you’d have to pay a euro in tax. Don’t be so absurd no businessman is that juvenile.
During the 50s and 60s the United States, the crade of global capitalism, had a 90% tax rate on the richest 1% of incomes, and they went through what economists today call the golden age of capitalism.
Yes you would if you have an up to date tax/vat cert and pass the means test.
A business could easily have over 1m euro worth of assets but may have very marginal profits. The wealth tax would require them to pay 10,000 euros extra to the government each year. If they could not afford this they would have two options:
1 Seek to finance the annual tax by mortgaging it against their assets and in the process becoming a hostage to the banks, or
2 Selling assets. Since you can rarely sell just 1% of your assets, the entire business premises may have to be sold just to pay the tax. Result – business closes.
When I talk about the dole I refer to the employees of the SMEs as well as the owners. Of course we would all be affected by the inevitable economic turndown. There is a reason so many countries have abandoned wealth taxes in recent years. The only countries to re-introduce them have been Spain (purely driven by economic crisis) and Iceland (on a temporary emergency basis ending this year).
if u pay ur stamps you would…self employed can opt to pay PRSI at the rate they would qualify
Anyone can “propose” to do anything, it’s when it comes to actually doing it is when their tune changes.
Vote them in next election and if they break one promise we will all physically remove them from power …. That’s my view on it !
Glen, but you haven’t done that with Kenny. So I doubt you will with Sinn Fein. You are all talk.
Right deco
At least I got the bottle to do it I have protested outside Leinster house I have marched on these streets against austerity
Water charges
Save the feckin whales
But what would you know tooked away on America not effected by what’s happening here
The cheek of you !
Glen, you are always commenting about the US! Now, what do you know about America as you are tucked away in Ireland? Do you have family over here? I’ve got family in Dublin. I’m from there. I keep up with news. If you don’t like me commenting about Ireland then you should stop commenting about America.
Declan
I never said anything about America I have an American passport
I went over on the Morrison and went for citizenship
I was responding to your typical smartalec condescending remark
@glen, I’ve never heard such nonsense , what age are you? Who’s physically going to remove them from power , you?once they get in they get in, no one with be removing them physically from power
Well Noel is against the motion !
I think my comment shows the absolute anger and betrayal felt by the majority of us and nothing more
Mandatory executions for elected officials caught lying to the electorate
D H
That’s the spirit sir !
I’d vote for them only for I’d hate to think one of them could end up with the position of Minister for justice and somehow end up with an inside track on the surveillance of all their criminally active republican friends!
And enter the Government apologists, stage right wing………
people in Ireland are naive about sinn fein and their policies i thought myself they would curb immigration,but all their policies point to the opposite they want to give all the illegals status in the country and also they are into open borders,and they will go after anyone who`s willing to work and pay their way and has accumulated a few assets and make them pay or increased social welfare etc
I do find it odd that sf represent low to middle class workers yet also want to enlarge the competition for low to middle income jobs.
Noel
a few questions there please:
1) Do you have any problem with Legal immigration ?
2) Where do Sinn Fein state that all illegal migrants should be made legal ?
3) What does “open borders ” mean ?
Thanks
Caoimhin
How Scarr ? competition from whom
You can promise us the moon but we’ve heard all the lies before. We’ve yet to meet a political group that will tell the truth before during and after. Wise up!
Sinn Fein will not win any middle class voters, with their proposal to reduce the level of tax relief on pensions to the base level. It’s bad enough that Fine Gael are currently pilfering private pension pots, or theft in any other language.
The second family home tax would probably be most controversial for most middle class voters, assuming they put their kids through college by using the second home. The €400 charge is very unfair. I would prefer if they focused on corporation tax avoidance issue and patent royalties or a financial transaction tax.
Water charges are dead in the water. The only decision the government can make, is to cut their huge ( e-voting machine proportion) losses. No one will get into power next time without a guarantee to the electorate to shelve them, so the smart move would be to shelve them now, will Kenny listen to his smarter colleagues who see the writing on the wall, time will tell, but the people are bled dry, it’s not a nice place to be now, Ireland, unless you are a Fine Gael die hard, with old old money.
Its so odd the communist/hard left hate IW, yet not a peep out of them regarding the vat raise to 23% which costs people far far more, inhibits spending & disproportionately affects the poor.
I guess this is the one tax the socialists have decided not to love.
Can’t wait to read the posts from the usual suspects.
Go for it rodgers & co
Mike they are a bit disconcerted after Pearse’s excellent performance last night, the reaction of the economists and the fact FF budget submission apparently was done on the back of a brown envelope
After reading all the comments bashing Sinn Fein on their budget promise I’m actually going to vote for Sinn Fein.
After all, look at what the other political parties are promising ?
To be honest Sinn Fein can’t be worse than the clowns running the Country at the moment.
Rob from the Poor and Give to the Rich (FG/Labours way)
So the party that sits in the communist block in the EU parliament can’t be any worse?
How wrong you are.
Exactly noel, the the worst thing about the irish electorate is they are so predictable and cuckolded by the traditional political parties. The people will vent their anger at the parties in power for ruining the country in the run up to elections and will kno the ins and outs of all the policies that f¥cked us but come election day they vote the same way again. Its beyond reason ,like beating your head off a wall. If they come from a family that votes ff or fg they never waver. Its always one or the other, doesnt matter that both shafted the country through cronyism for decades, god forbid they try a new path. If sf can relieve the financial burden on working men and women i think they should be given a chance. If they cant live up to their promises then we try someone else. Ff and fg/labour have lost my trust and my vote for life.
If you got for me, I’ll give everybody in the country a billion euros cash.*
*unless it turns out that I’m the smaller party in a coalition government in which case I can’t guarantee that any of my policies will see the light of day.
thats ture why New Ireland every junior coalition party is gone, nearly gone or going
Brits out , everybody else in, a shinner policy !
Exactly. They don’t realise we have new enemies now and they sure as hell aren’t British!
Which immigrants in particular do you not want in ? Or is it all ?
There’s no way I’m voting for this shower. They want to flood the country with immigrants yet they want a united Ireland? French are already a minority in their capital city and it looks like that’s what Sinn Féin want here. Ireland isn’t Ireland without the Irish people. They’ll have a united clump of land in the middle of the Atlantic ocean is what they’ll have.
“They want to flood the country with immigrants” – jesus, look around you. That’s already happened.
aghh KKK is back I see
Sakura which immigrants do you not want here ?
Ok then
Where’s this magic money tree where SF get their money
@ciaran. At least it’s a tree and not out of their arses like the present shower.
Northern Bank?
talk cheap Ciaran…
True Dave or on the back of a brown envelope like the last lot
when all else fails Denis throw the dirt..irrelevant dirt at that
Yeah Denis! The fact that a party condones violent armed robbery should have no impact on whether you decide to vote for them or not. Take that you stuck up arsehole!
lol thats a first you are insulting some one who agrees with you……..either u are a tiny bit dim or a comedian….just out of interest where did Sinn Fein condone anything
Who pissed in your cornflakes! For the last 4-5 hrs you’ve attacked anybody who has a different opinion to yours. SUPER TROLL
Agh Denis
!) I do not eat cornflakes….much prefer porridge
2) I was defending you but ah well ingratitude ….The offensive post about you has been removed
Caoimhin, Grainne and the illustrous Cllr are ye the same person or just go to the same night class?
Mr. O’Halpin I would like you to meet Mr. Sarcasm.
Anyway, they may not have condoned it, but I don’t recall them ever condemning it.
All aboard the good ship semantics, and here is our regular captain, P. O’Neill
You may be able to help me Denis there you are been a bit cryptic Who is Grainne ?
to deserve been called Mr Sarcasm one would firstly need to be good at it….
Now who condemned what and who condoned what ?
Sorry break it to you Eel but I do not think anybody will be robbing the ECB
Caoimhin,
1) Try soaking it in milk overnight with a touch of cinnamon and serve with honey.
2) I dont need your defence, just a comment will do.
Mine
3) Have’nt seen “Agh” in writing since i read Warlord and Victor as a kid. Cheers for the memories.
4) What offensive post?
somebody commented about shoving objects in a certain part of you anatomy as I think when you post ” northern bank” that you are calling ofr it to be robbed or something…
Warlord and Victor I am not in the fresh flush of youth but I am not familiar with them…
the overnight soaking is one new to me but cinnamon and honey is A1
Them proposals look good but at the end of the day I would never trust a politician. On the other hand, do we keep going down the road of FG/FF, or do we try something different (and seemingly people friendly) in SF? Personally I’m sick of FF and FG, so if SF can get rid of the property tax and water charge that would be good enough for me to vote for them over the others.
on the money Alan…..if we do what we have always done (FFGLab) we will get what we have always gotten :
*poverty
*emigration
*cronyism
*inequality before the law
*inequality of opportunity for the dis-advantaged
etc, etc
Costing elements separately does not mean the budget is costed as a whole.
So a 60 % tax rate over 100,000 will bring in a certain amount extra. But much of that will be lost in lower tax take on VAT and VRT and pension levy etc which otherwise the money would have been spent on a taxed doing so.
Sinn Fein are being intentionally misleading.
Not necessarily true. Part of the problem with being heavily reliant on VAT for State revenues (as most of the EU is) is that, although VAT is relatively hard to evade (even for the self-employed), wealthy earners spend a smaller proportion of their earnings. A “poor” worker might average 18% of their earnings lost to VAT. A high earner, who doesn’t spend as much, might average only 5%.
The figures are pulled out of the air, but the theory isn’t.
I still won’t vote for SF anytime soon, mind you.
I disagree with the proposal to reintroduce the second family home tax because what if it’s used for good purposes such as going to college for their kids? The family is going to be wacked with a massive €400 property tax (very unfair).
Surely there is alternative proposals such as a third home tax? or a financial transaction tax of the likes of the IFSC? or closing the tax loopholes that see corporations pay 2% tax or 0% tax? or on things like patent royalties?
Time and time again we hear the government in staunch opposition to Wealth taxes because it would drive people out of the country. Let’s be 100% clear here everybody else has been subject to the harsher end of cuts, taxes, charges etc. I don’t care if there is a hundred wealthy people that will have to pay an extra 1% or ten thousand it should be done. I don’t know about Sinn Féin to be honest but they have a point. The government would grab the simmer frame off a old person if they thought it would bring us in line with the Troika. But why are wealthier people by default protected?
I watched Pearse Doherty on Prime Time last night, and I have to say, I was impressed. I have never voted Sinn Fein in my life so I’m no apologist for them but I have to say, I have trouble understanding the arguments against them here. A large number of people in this country would like to see Water Charges etc abolished. Sinn Fein say they will do that, and for that they are called “populist”. Since when is listening to what voters want a negative thing? Can they deliver on this promise? Well, the answer is, nobody knows! Everyone here is saying what Sinn Fein will/won’t do when they are in government. Can I remind people that there has not been a Sinn Fein led government in Ireland since 1922!! FG and FF policies are indistinguishable now, both Right Wing Conservative. Where is the credible Left option? Sinn Fein is rapidly looking like the only option for those of us who are not millionaires. Just my penny’s worth.
The idea, as written in the headline, is doable and has merit for one reason only.
As everyone is also saying, these are just stealth taxes. Yet by setting up bodies like Irish Water, or new taxes like the property tax, they are creating a whole new set of bureaucracy to handle them.
If they just raised income tax by the amounts they seek to gain from the stealth taxes, not only would the State actually get to keep a larger portion of the new income, it would save people a hell of a lot of time and effort paying the million new micro-taxes they introduced.
Eh, how is a highly publicised charge called “local property tax” a stealth tax? That’s some pretty lousy stealth they’ve got going there
Where is John Gahan, Reilly factor , Dicky Rogers and the rest today ??? Pearse scattered them all last night ???
My electricity has been out all day due to the lightening .. So maybe that’s why?
We need SF in government only then the party will be found out with their populist bullshit. They say they have the solutions for the country’s problems well let’s get them into power then we’ll see.
tax lotto jackpots and tax exiles
and restore the phone allowance
have your say