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Ex-No 10 Brexit spokesperson: 'Brexit has made the rest of the UK more like Northern Ireland'

Matthew O’Toole spoke about where Brexit goes from here, and how it’s made the rest of the UK more like Northern Ireland.

A FORMER CIVIL servant who worked as the Brexit spokesperson at 10 Downing Street  has said the current Prime Minister may have a decent chance of getting her EU divorce deal through parliament – but only because the alternatives are so unpalatable.

Matt O’Toole worked at Number 10 in the communications section under both David Cameron and Theresa May, before leaving his role in September 2017.

He told TheJournal.ie that although it was an “amazing experience” to have been part of, there was also a sense of frustration with the approach to Irish issues that Brexit created both before and after the referendum in 2016.

Brexit wounds

The Brexit endgame has been going on for quite some time now, but we’re now at the most critical moment yet in the negotiations between the UK and EU.

May has agreed a Brexit deal with the EU, with a draft deal on their future relationship settled during the week.

But, she faces a major challenge to get this deal through the House of Commons. Brexiteers within her own party loathe it. DUP members – who had been supporting her government – are irate. And the opposition Labour party has also said it won’t support the deal.

The Prime Minister told the House of Commons on Thursday that a “critical moment” had been reached ahead of this weekend’s EU summit.

The deal has proven controversial – in particular around what it’ll mean for Northern Ireland. It guarantees a backstop, if all other talks fail, that would prevent a hard border and keep the North aligned in a regulatory sense with the EU.

Focus may be fixed on how Brexit will affect Northern Ireland now, but O’Toole – who’s from Northern Ireland – said this was something that was sorely lacking in debates in the run up to the referendum.

“Even if you don’t give two hoots about the border, which is a thing you should care about, you’re going to have to negotiate with the EU who do care about it,” he said.

Politicians should have been putting that in a careful and coherent way.

Whereas in recent successful campaigns – such as the remain side in the Scottish referendum and the 2015 general election – the Conservatives under Cameron had been able to sway the public by saying the alternative would put the economy at risk, this wasn’t successful during the Brexit vote.

While the possibility of the UK voting to leave seemed a distant one to the civil servant in the run-up to the referendum, the difficulties that were faced by the remain side – which then-Prime Minister Cameron advocated – were clear at the time.

“One of the challenges about the referendum was trying to convey how something as structurally important to the UK economy and its position in the world affected people’s everyday lives,” O’Toole said.

In terms of British politics, what was going on in the EU wasn’t really talked about. People didn’t understand how it was all relevant to them.

Part of identity

When the people of the UK ultimately voted to leave the EU, O’Toole found himself with someone new living in Number 10 Downing Street, after Cameron resigned and May took over. 

He’d gone from being a spokesperson from the perspective of being in favour of staying in the EU to one that had to express the view of leaving it in a short space of time. 

“It was radical in policy terms,” he said. “A distinct and different change in the context of a much bigger change in UK politics generally.”

Part of this new policy that the civil servant had to espouse and present to journalists and the public was the mantra from Theresa May that “Brexit means Brexit”.

Although he would have been responsible to defend this in his dealings at the time, O’Toole now said: “The phrase is mind-bendingly circular.

There’s the sense that Brexit has a kind of emotional force that has become internalised in lots of people’s identity, not to sound patronising. It’s a cause that people identify with. 

He said that rather than what the phrase actually means – which of course we still don’t really know – it became imbued with a sense that people could culturally identify themselves as a Brexiteer or a Brexit supporter.

“It’s actually reminiscent of Northern Ireland,” O’Toole said. “And that’s one of the tragic things about Northern Ireland – the extent to which people have very tribal identifications. Brexit has made the UK as a whole a little bit more like Northern Ireland, hardened into one of these tribes, and how people see themselves in society.”

Stepping down and where we go from here

Over a year after the Brexit vote, O’Toole left his position as the Brexit spokesperson for the Prime Minister.

“It wasn’t that I walked out in protest,” he said. “But I think that there should have been more emphasis on Irish things before the referendum.

The European project is all about unifying the peoples of Europe by making borders less important, and lessening divisions between States. I think it was never accepted – and still isn’t – that this was part of the rationale of the UK joining the EU. The UK isn’t an island nation. It’s an island nation plus a land that has an invisible border with an EU country.

When he left his job, the DUP had made a confidence-and-supply arrangement with May’s government, further complicating matters concerning Ireland post-Brexit.

O’Toole also said it took quite a while for the position of the UK government on the guarantee of no hard border to align with that of the Irish government on the issue.

The deal now agreed between the EU and UK reflects that.

He said: “The thing that’s changed is that the UK has de facto accepted that its relationship with Ireland is going to play a huge role in its end relationship with the EU, rather than it determining things for itself.

It’s a good thing for the island of Ireland.

And the chances of May getting the deal through a bitterly divided House of Commons?

Although not yet certain, the numbers don’t look good at present for May. There are a large number of dissenters within her own party, although of talk of challenging her leadership has died down significantly in the past week. 

Her party only has a majority in the House of Commons through the support of the DUP, but this support will not remain with the current Brexit deal on the table.

Theresa May’s Conservative party has 316 seats, and it has also secured the support of the 10 seats from the DUP. The opposition have said they won’t be supporting the deal so the Prime Minister has a great deal of convincing to do in the next few weeks.

O’Toole said that all eyes are now on British parliamentarians, and it will be down to them if this doesn’t go through.

“I think the main chance [for May's deal] is the two alternatives are structurally unpalatable,” he said. “A no-deal is calamitous. Now the UK has agreed a deal, the culpability for rejecting a deal will be with parliament. They can’t blame the EU. And then no Brexit is politically very difficult for people on both parties.

We’re set for a very unpredictable few weeks. There’s no majority for anything. It’s just that the easiest majority to get might be for this deal that no one wants.
Matthew O’Toole is taking part in a panel at Ireland’s Edge in Dingle on 30 November and 1 December.

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41 Comments
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    Mute Joe Johnson
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    Nov 25th 2018, 12:16 AM

    And who’s fault is that reffering to the headline. Northern Ireland as they call it should never have happened problem could of been solved 100 yrs ago.

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    Mute Trev heff
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    Nov 25th 2018, 12:33 AM

    @Joe Johnson: How?

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    Mute Joe Johnson
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    Nov 25th 2018, 12:35 AM

    @Trev heff: home rule

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    Mute Mjhint
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    Nov 25th 2018, 12:35 AM

    @Joe Johnson: Michael Collins wouldn’t agree with you.

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    Mute Paul Smith
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    Nov 25th 2018, 12:37 AM

    @Joe Johnson: why should NI never have happen . Unionists are Irish people they have as much right to own part of this rock as republicans . Independence was brought about by a small percentage of the population that believe they had a right to decide the future of this island through violence.

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    Mute John Hetherton
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    Nov 25th 2018, 12:45 AM

    @Joe Johnson: read an understand your history before you come out with a comment like this. The 6 counties – Ulster (whatever you call it) came about not because of a difference of opinion between the Irish freedom fighters and the British Gov or even between inter poltical differences between different factions of the rebels, but was a creation of the border commission. The civil war was fought over the requirement to give an oath of allegiance to the British monarch not over the division of the island….

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    Mute Joe Johnson
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    Nov 25th 2018, 12:53 AM

    @Paul Smith: Get real Unionists say they are not irish but British. And anyway home rule for Ireland was passed through the commons because majority on this island wanted Home Rule but the minority in a very small part of this island got their own way. Once again today minority even in these only 6 counties of NI demand their own way.

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    Mute Joe Johnson
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    Nov 25th 2018, 12:54 AM

    @Mjhint: True but home rule was before parliment long before Collins

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    Mute Dave.
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    Nov 25th 2018, 1:39 AM

    @Joe Johnson: In all fairness this is the here and now. If that minority want to jump up and down, they are entitled to do so, them guys are under the UK, like it or not. It’s there choice to make, they need to a bit of unity in it, which I don’t see.

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    Mute Donal Desmond
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    Nov 25th 2018, 1:43 AM

    @Paul Smith: Agree Unionists are as Irish as Republicans. Different view points certainly, as for the right to decide by violence the occupation of Ireland was by England was decided by violence. The Irish border came about with the underhand dealings of a British government and the so called independent government of the so called free state.

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    Mute Ian Breathnach
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    Nov 25th 2018, 2:00 AM

    @Paul Smith: do fk off. Kindly.

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    Mute Paul Smith
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    Nov 25th 2018, 2:23 AM

    @Donal Desmond: It was the Normans that came to Ireland in 1169 to help the king of Leinster regain his kingdom . That’s the same Normans the invaded England in 1066 .

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    Mute Paul Smith
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    Nov 25th 2018, 2:28 AM

    @Joe Johnson: Iv known a lot of unionists in my time . Never knew one that didn’t call himself an Irish man . Most military units in NI manned by unionists have the title Irish in them . They wear a harp as a cap badge and a shamrock on their uniform. Even the UDR and RUC had a harp as a cap badge . What’s more Irish then that . The Royal Irish moto that is 70 percent unionists is Gaelic . Faugh a ballagh.

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    Mute European Bob
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    Nov 25th 2018, 7:27 AM

    @Paul Smith: What’s more Irish than that you say? Wearing the uniform of two of the most despicably sectarian and murderous organisations this country has ever seen? Faugh a ballagh? Kill a taig would’ve been more apt.

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    Mute Paul Smith
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    Nov 25th 2018, 9:12 AM

    @European Bob: kill a taig . Isn’t that what the IRA . The IRA kill more Catholics then 300000 British soldiers .

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    Mute Joe Johnson
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    Nov 25th 2018, 10:40 AM

    @Paul Smith: Agree they are Irish but I’ve spent a lot of time in the North and any Unionist/Loyalists I met called themselves British unless I met them abroad and then they would refer themselves to been Irish.

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    Mute Joe Johnson
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    Nov 25th 2018, 11:36 AM

    Never mentioned the civil war the home rule bill was passed through parliament in Gladstone’s time but was rejected by House of Lords

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    Mute European Bob
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    Nov 25th 2018, 11:46 AM

    @Paul Smith: Whataboutery, the argument of the uneducated.

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    Mute BMJF
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    Dec 10th 2018, 7:20 AM

    @Trev heff: by not diving the island!

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    Mute BMJF
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    Dec 10th 2018, 7:21 AM

    @Trev heff: by not diving the island! Although an even more serious civil war would have ensued in Ireland than the one that resulted from the partition

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    Mute BMJF
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    Dec 10th 2018, 7:22 AM

    @Paul Smith: nonsense – the 1918 election was 80% Simon Fein – a massive landslide victory in Ireland for a party that campaigned for independence – the mandate was massive, the mandate was clear, the mandate was democratic!!

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    Mute BMJF
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    Dec 10th 2018, 7:23 AM

    @Dave.: but if unity would solve this …Irish unity!!

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    Mute Ciaran Foy
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    Nov 25th 2018, 12:35 AM

    On the anniversary of The British Army entering Croke Park…Lest we forget
    They ve made a complete and utter mess of this and It goes to show, brawn is nothing without the brain

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    Mute John Hetherton
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    Nov 25th 2018, 12:47 AM

    @Ciaran Foy: I don’t understand this comment. Who is making a mess of what exactly?

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    Mute Ciaran Foy
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    Nov 25th 2018, 1:21 AM

    @John Hetherton: the British voting public.They can say they were sold a pup,but with democracy comes responsibility.

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    Mute John Hetherton
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    Nov 25th 2018, 1:28 AM

    @Ciaran Foy: yes Ciaran but the plebiscite in the UK was held without informing the electorate what leaving the EU entailed. The people of the UK voted for something that was not explained or defined hence the division in the British parliament over what exactly Brexit should look like

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Nov 25th 2018, 12:53 AM

    Another way Britain has become more like Northern Ireland is that there is no majority in n its parliament, but a number of minority groupings.
    Very interesting indeed.

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    Mute Greedylocks
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    Nov 25th 2018, 12:27 AM

    May’s self preservation at any cost and blind believe in her own ability is staggering , this coupled with the lack of a credable successors to take over her job is a worrying reflection on Britain in general.

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    Mute Mjhint
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    Nov 25th 2018, 12:36 AM

    @Greedylocks: I’m inclined to think she’s as tough as one can get. She inherited this mess.

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    Mute Greedylocks
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    Nov 25th 2018, 12:46 AM

    @Mjhint: fair point ,but hasn’t improved the situation. made it worse if that’s possible

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    Mute John Hetherton
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    Nov 25th 2018, 12:58 AM

    @Greedylocks: Thersea May (personally don’t like the lady) inherited a terrible political situation. A divided country and a deeply divided party. To be fair to her she has managed the situation reasonably well. The problem is that nobody defined Brexit to the British electorate prior to the plebiscite ( not a referendum because in the UK parliament is sovereign not the people as in our democracy) therefore the electorate was not informed of what exactly they were voting for or against. Mrs May picked a solution that she thought she could reasonably get through parliament and has been perusing this path ever since. Not sure anyone could produce a Brexit that most of the British electorate would approve off…..

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    Mute Greedylocks
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    Nov 25th 2018, 1:41 AM

    @John Hetherton: true, but surely this only reinforces the principal that democracy only works with a viable opposition,whether that’s in her own party or a different party.she is a weak leader with even weaker opposition

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    Mute Tomas
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    Nov 25th 2018, 4:42 AM

    North of London in the majority of England has been totally neglected,makes the worst parts of Belfast look pretty good.

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    Mute maurice kavanagh
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    Nov 25th 2018, 9:02 AM

    They may not have any brains in Britain, but when they had power they were a power that were not afraid to commit genocide on other people, as they did to us..their past is coming back to haunt them.

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    Mute Dave.
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    Nov 25th 2018, 2:40 AM

    The real question around here should be when will the UK join again. What a disaster from start to finish. Sold bark on a stick. Now they won’t back down in typical Brit style, follow on at all costs. The EU wanna cop on here too. If this works and we are thinkered by it, IREXIT be right after it.

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    Mute Dave.
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    Nov 25th 2018, 3:51 AM

    Also I hope May sees it out so no other halfwit picks up all her work.

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    Mute trebloc01
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    Nov 25th 2018, 8:07 AM

    There isn’t a single brain between them all in Parlement

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    Mute The decline of Manchester United
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    Nov 25th 2018, 2:51 AM

    Right now I’m loling at Beexit and the Brits

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    Mute The decline of Manchester United
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    Nov 25th 2018, 2:51 AM

    @The decline of Mancheste United: Brexit even

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    Mute anthony o cathain
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    Nov 25th 2018, 2:09 PM

    Hahaha! Took us 100 yrs to catch up. Having got out freedom from our master we didn’t know what to do with it.

    Brits had sterling, a massive EU refund, were Shengen refuseniks and lied to by Leave et al

    NO MERCY

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    Mute Brian Kelleher
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    Nov 25th 2018, 1:04 PM

    will they every just feck off and brexit already sick of this in the news everyday

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