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Seanad passes Occupied Territories Bill despite government opposition

Despite government opposition, the Bill has cross-party support from Labour, Sinn Féin, Fianna Fáil as well as independent senators.

THE SEANAD HAS passed the Occupied Territories Bill to the next stage this evening.

The Bill, which was voted on this evening, aims to prohibit Ireland from trading in goods and services from Israeli-occupied territories by prohibiting “the import and sales of goods, services and natural resources originating in illegal settlements in occupied territories”.

Speaking about her Bill, Senator Frances Black wanted to clarify that the proposed legislation does not single out any state, adding that there is no mention of any particular region.

Despite government opposition, the Bill has cross-party support from Labour, Sinn Féin, Fianna Fáil as well as independent senators. 

Sinn Féin’s Niall Ó Donnghaile said the Irish government is enabling a form of apartheid in Gaza, stating that the Irish government’s position on the Bill is “shameful”.

Fianna Fáil’s Seanad spokesperson for Foreign Affairs, Ned O’Sullivan said his party decided to support the Bill as it has long held an interest in the Middle East peace process. However, in recent times he said he has become frustrated with the lack of progress.  

During the course of the debate, Senator David Norris accused Fine Gael’s Joe O’Reilly of filibustering the discussion. Norris listed off the various legal authorities who have backed the Bill and found that it is fully compliant with EU law.

O’Reilly said it is often the case that the government follows the AG’s advice, which warns that Ireland could stand liable to class action.

The experts cited by Norris include Irish Senior Counsel, Michael Lynn, Professor James Crawford, who is a judge of the International Court of Justice as well as Senator Michael McDowell, a former attorney general.

Most recently, Takis Tridimas, a professor of EU law at King’s College London has attested to the legality of the Bill

However, despite many legal experts stating the proposed legislation is compliant, Tánaiste Simon Coveney continues to rely on advice he said he has received from the current Attorney General, who says it would breach law. The advice has not been published. 

Fine Gael Senator Michelle Mulherin added her voice to the opposition to the Bill, which she said is “unlawful”. 

“This Bill will be passed by this House tonight,” said Gerard Craughwell, who added that there can be no doubt that Israel is illegally occupying an area and breaking international law.

While he said the passing of the Bill might not give “shock waves” to the Israeli government, but it might provide “a lead for rest of the EU to follow”.

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    Mute Acedeuce
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:02 PM

    Is there going to be any news outlets or journalist besides Gemma O’ Doherty reporting on the government signing the UN migration pact in December Australia, USA and 8 other European countires opposing the pact? Why is there basically no news outlets talking about it and what it exactly means for Ireland and future generations

    318
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    Mute Dot Com
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:33 PM

    @Acedeuce:
    They are all looking forward to a handy number spinning for some government parasite in the future, That’s why.

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    Mute Paddington C.
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:36 PM

    @Acedeuce: Irish Times and the Indo for a start:https: //www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/poles-and-czechs-follow-austria-and-hungary-in-rejecting-un-migration-pact-1.3684210?mode=amp and Austria refuses to sign UN global migration pact

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/austria-refuses-to-sign-un-global-migration-pact-37478855.html

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    Mute Paddington C.
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:37 PM

    @Paddington C.: IT, sorry: Austria refuses to sign UN global migration pact

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/austria-refuses-to-sign-un-global-migration-pact-37478855.html

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    Mute Paddington C.
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:44 PM

    @Acedeuce: our government and the governments of 192 other countries ratified it. Everyone is covering it. Don’t listen to Gemma’s bloody spin.

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    Mute European Bob
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:02 PM

    This bill is not anti Israel. It is anti land grabbing, taking Palestinian land and placing right wing settlers on it. Not much different to the Scottish troublemakers that were settled in the north east of our own country. Well done all in the Seanad who voted for this. Shame on you once again Fine Gael.

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    Mute Pádraig Debhál
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:20 PM

    @European Bob: I don’t think you can make a comparison Bob between the Unionist population and Israeli settlements. Israeli settlements are certainly illegal, Unionists aren’t.

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    Mute Brian Smith
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:29 PM

    @European Bob: Scottish troublemakers ? Wonder what the Scottish say about the Irish who went there?

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    Mute wattsed56
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    Nov 28th 2018, 9:53 PM

    @Brian Smith: Probably the same as they now say to them Brian :
    “HowsitgoinHen” or “Howsitgoinbigyin” or “Howsthingswiyepal” – none of which would be PC now I guess but “Glasgowsmilesbetter”

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    Mute Dermot Foley
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    Nov 28th 2018, 10:43 PM

    @Pádraig Debhál: I think you absolutely can imo. Not far to imagine at all. Has many similarities. Stolen land, illegal settlements, foreign language, pillage and burn, persecutions based on religion and creed, local indigenous people treated as second class citizens with no rights and an illegal occupying force to back them up. Quite a lot of similarities to back in the plantations I would say.

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    Mute Pádraig Debhál
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    Nov 28th 2018, 11:14 PM

    @Dermot Foley: 100% Dermot, no doubt that all of that happened in Ireland. My point is that we can’t compare or judge what happened in the 1600s by modern day standards. If we still object to the historic plantation of Ulster in 2018 then we must similarity object to plantations in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc that happened in similar times. If we still see Unionists as having no right to be here in 2018 then modern day people of western European descent in the aforementioned countries also have no right to be there.

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    Mute European Bob
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    Nov 28th 2018, 11:58 PM

    @Brian Smith: We’re just like the Chinese Brian, a great bunch of lads. And to answer your question, most Scottish people value the hard working ethos of the Irish who emigrated there, apart from a few (who’s ancestors were part of the Ulster plantation) who would see them as tatty munchers, fenian b’s etc.

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    Mute European Bob
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    Nov 29th 2018, 12:02 AM

    @Pádraig Debhál: I’m not saying that at all Pádraig. Im saying that those who don’t learn lessons from history are doomed to make the same mistakes. What’s happening in the occupied territories now will have repercussions for centuries.

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    Mute Denis McClean
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    Nov 29th 2018, 2:21 PM

    @European Bob: Well done to all involved but the FG position is nothing less than shameful.

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    Mute John Mulligan
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:03 PM

    While ignoring the atrocities committed daily by Hammas

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    Mute Dónal Ó hÍobhair
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:07 PM

    @John Mulligan: Yes it’s so impossible to both condemn actions committed by Israel and by Hamas…

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    Mute Paddington C.
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    Nov 28th 2018, 9:04 PM

    @John Mulligan: we don’t trade with Hammas

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    Mute seanofiachra
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    Nov 28th 2018, 9:45 PM

    @Paddington C.: We fund it. We have a charity for it. It declares to destroy israel and kill all jews.

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    Mute Paddington C.
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    Nov 28th 2018, 9:55 PM

    @seanofiachra: what charity do we have for Hammas?

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    Mute seanofiachra
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    Nov 28th 2018, 10:11 PM

    @Paddington C.: here ‘s one of them. Yemen ain’t an issue for them, yet https://www.islamic-relief.ie/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIx7KGmY343gIVLLHtCh1KowNdEAAYASAAEgLoj_D_BwE

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    Mute Dermot Foley
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    Nov 28th 2018, 10:40 PM

    @seanofiachra: are we not talking about Palestine here? Oh yeah super slight of hand. See what you did there.

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    Mute Paddington C.
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    Nov 28th 2018, 10:45 PM

    @seanofiachra: you, sir, are talking through yer hoop.

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    Mute Cormac Ó Braonáin
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    Nov 28th 2018, 10:48 PM

    @John Mulligan: Hamas? Do you not know where the West Bank is?

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    Mute MrMagoo
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    Nov 29th 2018, 12:45 AM

    @John Mulligan: I’d commit atrocities too if some bunch came into my country and started bulldozing our houses and deprived us of all our basis human rights and implemented aparthide. Seems fair to be able to defend your country against an illegal occupier.

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    Mute Fiasco99
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    Nov 29th 2018, 2:50 AM

    @John Mulligan: yep. Feelings based evidence.

    Hamas are one of the most backward forces on the planet and our government is providing them with support…

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    Mute Cormac Ó Braonáin
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    Nov 29th 2018, 4:31 AM

    @Fiasco99: as the ones with nucleur weapons, israel has had plenty of opportunities to live in peace and decided many years ago it will provoke the Palestinians at every opportunity. It has proven many times it does not want peace. Therefore, the Israelis do not deserve their own state. Sick of seeing people say they deserve their own state. By treating international law with complete disdain and actively enforcing apartheid they absolutely do not.

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    Mute Paddington C.
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    Nov 29th 2018, 8:11 AM

    @Fiasco99: again, our government is *NOT* providing Hamas with support

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    Mute Roger Camp
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    Nov 29th 2018, 7:39 PM

    @John Mulligan: and those committed by closer to home, namely in Dublin

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    Mute Mr Bordello
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:02 PM

    Great news

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    Mute David McShite
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    Nov 28th 2018, 7:53 PM

    Not sure about this.
    The moral high ground can come at a cost and with many unintended consequences which pragmatic people avoid.

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    Mute Cal Mooney
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    Nov 29th 2018, 10:43 PM

    @David McShite: Yeah, it’s complicated. You can support doing what is right or continue supporting what you know to be wrong.

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    Mute The Risen
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:55 PM

    Glad I voted to keep the Seanad, well done to all who voted in favour

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    Mute brian
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    Nov 28th 2018, 11:35 PM

    @The Risen: should you have put “ lol” after your comment?

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    Mute Ruairi Fahy
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    Nov 28th 2018, 9:56 PM

    Can we expect to see similar bills for other land acquiring countries like China (Tibet), Turkey (Cyprus), Russia (Crimea); Morocco (Spanish Sahara), UK (NI), Indonesia (New Guinea) etc etc etc.

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    Mute Cormac Ó Braonáin
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    Nov 28th 2018, 11:01 PM

    @Ruairi Fahy: no we can’t considering the international community recognise Tibet as part of China, NI as part of the UK and West Papua as part of Indonesia. We don’t, however, recognise The West Bank as part of Israel. Russia’s annexation of Crimea led to the West implementing sanctions. The UN are yet to rule on Western Sahara.

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    Mute Fiasco99
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    Nov 29th 2018, 2:51 AM

    @Ruairi Fahy: No.

    That would require them not to be hypocritical.

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    Mute Cormac Ó Braonáin
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    Nov 29th 2018, 7:41 AM

    @Fiasco99: of course nothing can be done with the willfully ignorant. Even when things are explained in black in white, they still choose to ignore reason and persist with stupidity.

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    Mute Ruairi Fahy
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    Nov 29th 2018, 9:01 AM

    Try getting your argument past the Dali Lama, or the natives of Papua who still resist Indonesian encroachment on their tribal lands. Situation on the ground is what YOU recognize.

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    Mute Cormac Ó Braonáin
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    Nov 29th 2018, 12:54 PM

    @Ruairi Fahy:…but it has nothing to do with what I recognise…it’s to do with what the international community recognises…which I made clear in my comment.

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    Mute Roger Camp
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    Nov 29th 2018, 7:41 PM

    @Ruairi Fahy: the UK would love to give up NI and let ROI have it back.Be careful what you wish for

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    Mute Cormac Ó Braonáin
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    Nov 30th 2018, 11:04 AM

    @Roger Camp: they really wouldn’t

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    Mute Peter Carroll
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:17 PM

    How, pray, do they intend to enforce this nonsense, whilst remaining with in the EU’s single market and customs union?

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    Mute Johnny Merren
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    Nov 28th 2018, 10:11 PM

    This is a positive step by the Irish Seanad showing the way
    to the rest of the EU to follow

    “the import and sales of goods, services and natural resources originating in illegal settlements in occupied territories”

    We should not worry about the sensitives of the Israeli Government as they are the occupying forces which has no compunction shooting dead unarmed protesters and then blaming their actions on the victims.

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    Mute Roger Camp
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    Nov 29th 2018, 7:42 PM

    @Johnny Merren: do you really think the EU gives ashite about ireland

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    Mute Geoff Murphy
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:09 PM

    Shortsighted action by the dummy dail

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    Mute Tommy Berry
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:16 PM

    @Geoff Murphy: Shortsighted comment considering it wasn’t the Dáil.

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    Mute Geoff Murphy
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    Nov 28th 2018, 9:07 PM

    @Tommy Berry: that’s why I put dummy before it you berry

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    Mute Mari
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    Nov 28th 2018, 10:47 PM

    Well done to all..great speech by DAVID NORRIS

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    Mute brian
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    Nov 29th 2018, 1:56 PM

    @Mari: for the price of a pint you could into most pubs in this country and there will be somebody there giving his opinion on all this sort of thing, will probably make as much sense as any of our Senators, no need to pay all this money to these people just to hear their thoughts.

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    Mute Niallers
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    Nov 28th 2018, 7:54 PM

    Totally agree with this but we must be careful as Irish Jobs in US multinationals could be affected if it is thought to be a Boycott of Israel under anti boycott laws.

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    Mute Tom Ryan
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:02 PM

    @Niallers: we should be boycotting the whole of Isreal

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    Mute Niallers
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:13 PM

    @Tom Ryan: I agree but US multinationals operating in Ireland would not be allowed to comply if it was law in Ireland which could lead to unintended consequences as mentioned by somebody earlier.

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    Mute World Leader Pretend
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    Nov 28th 2018, 10:18 PM

    @Niallers: Not as long as they are getting tax breaks and all the other perks. They don’t care about Israel, let alone Palestine. Unless you’re one of those people who believe in a worldwide Zionist conspiracy? Are you?

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    Mute Niallers
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    Nov 28th 2018, 11:35 PM

    @World Leader Pretend: why do you ask ?

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    Mute LD
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    Nov 29th 2018, 12:07 AM

    @Niallers: that’s the pathetic attitude that allows these atrocities to perpetuate. Shhhhhh let’s stay quiet and never upset the Americans. What a sad country we have become. And we go about our subjugation by the British Empire. As if we are free now under the dual dictates of Washington and Brussels!! Thank you to the Seanad for at least having some moral backbone left

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    Mute brian
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    Nov 28th 2018, 10:38 PM

    Does anybody know or care who or what the Irish Seanad is?
    The only reason they can take a stance like this is because they are completely anonymous.
    We were given the chance with a referendum to abolish it and we decided to let them stay with big promises being made of reform and other great things from them.
    No sign of life from any of them since, except for this kind of token jumping up and down.
    Remember when we gave the wrong answer on Lisbon?
    We were told to do it again and get it right next time.
    Another referendum to abolish the Seanad please!

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    Mute Diarmuid Hunt
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    Nov 29th 2018, 8:48 AM

    @brian: With regard to the seanad, did we get it wrong the first time and are you asking us again so that we can get it right? Also the Lisbon treaty changed between votes so we weren’t voting on the same thing twice.

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    Mute brian
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    Nov 30th 2018, 10:12 AM

    @Diarmuid Hunt: we actually did vote twice on the same Lisbon Treaty. they shuffled it around a bit, ( think of the 3 card trick) then came back and told us to vote again as it was different. A con trick.

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    Mute seanofiachra
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:07 PM

    Hope they don’t stop sharing intelligence, flying could be a lot scarier.

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    Mute Cal Mooney
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    Nov 29th 2018, 10:46 PM

    @seanofiachra: I have a feeling your motive is not to support or encourage countries to do the morally and legally right thing to do. All it takes for evil to prevail is for people to stand idly by.

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    Mute LD
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    Nov 28th 2018, 11:55 PM

    This bill is anti the Israeli government, it is not anti Israel. Please separate these two vastly different groups. The Israeli government is a terrorist organisation legitimised by politics! However the Israeli people are not all represented by Netanyahu and his murder machine. In order for any peaceful outcome it must be acknowledged that both the citizens of Israel and the peoples of Palestine must both be recognised in any future resolution. In order for these people’s to be brought together with any trust they will have to abandon the toxic ideas of Likud and Hamas. Fair play to Frances Black for representing the Irish people with honest dignity. May Fine Gael hang their heads in further shame!!

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    Mute Nathan Mawhinney
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    Nov 30th 2018, 12:50 PM

    @LD: hamas are the terrorist organization, not the Israeli government.

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    Mute iComment
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    Nov 29th 2018, 12:40 AM

    This will be perceived in Israel as anti Israeli economy and will make Ireland the most anti Israeli country in Europe….First step to comlete ban on Israeli products….No other European country will follow Ireland’s lead on this….Most Arab countries like Egypt and Jordan don’t have this trade ban against Israel….

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    Mute Cormac Ó Braonáin
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    Nov 29th 2018, 4:52 AM

    @iComment: indeed. no other country will follow our lead. Well apart from Sweden, who have already contacted Frances Black’s team so they could have a gawk at it. Other than Ireland and Sweden no other will follow our lead…apart from the Netherlands who have done the same. But apart from Ireland, Sweden and the Netherlands no other country will find follow our lead. Definitely not!

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    Mute wattsed56
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    Nov 28th 2018, 9:54 PM

    Do the white spots on the diagram represent abstentions ?

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    Mute Niall Lonergan
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    Nov 29th 2018, 11:06 AM

    Does this mean no Hummus?

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    Mute Patricia McCarthy
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:44 PM

    Good. I will be able to do something about the occupation of my territory now. I like it when the damned idiots play into my hand.

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    Mute Patricia McCarthy
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    Nov 28th 2018, 8:59 PM

    The damned hypocrites must have forgotten their own land grabbing. They have been land grabbing themselves for over a century. Taking over the land that their British overlords took from the indigenous people of Ireland.

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    Mute Patricia McCarthy
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    Nov 28th 2018, 9:23 PM

    Simple test. Let the Landowners in the occupied territories of Ireland produce their documents. Not one of them have been Landowners for more than a century or 150 years. Who owned the land before they grabbed it?

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    Mute wattsed56
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    Nov 28th 2018, 10:01 PM

    @Patricia McCarthy: Happy Saint Andrews day. You traced your genealogy back to any Vikings or such blow-ins yet ?

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    Mute Patricia McCarthy
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    Nov 28th 2018, 10:46 PM

    @wattsed56: I know who my ancestors are. Looks like you don’t even know your own name. What’s ed?

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    Mute Pádraig Debhál
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    Nov 28th 2018, 10:57 PM

    @Patricia McCarthy: there are no occupied territories in Ireland. Irish people voted overwhelming to clarify this position by accepting the GFA. NI is part of the UK by consent until they consent otherwise.

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    Mute Patricia McCarthy
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    Nov 28th 2018, 11:19 PM

    @Pádraig Debhál: Now there are. Thanks to this bill being passed. As I said already, proof of ownership must exceed a hundred years. What is the GAA? Er… GFA?

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    Mute Pádraig Debhál
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    Nov 28th 2018, 11:44 PM

    @Patricia McCarthy: GFA = Good Friday Agreement.

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    Mute Patricia McCarthy
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    Nov 29th 2018, 9:59 AM

    @Pádraig Debhál: I live in the so called Republic, not the North. We never signed a treaty with anyone allowing them to take our land. The evictions took place during and after the famine. A number of the impostors who grabbed the land are in Co. Councils, the Dail, and the Seanad. That is an illegal occupation.

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