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ABORTION LEGISLATION HAS passed through the Dáil.
The vote on the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill came at the end of day’s of debate in the Dáil on the stroke of midnight.
The Bill passed by 90 votes to 15, and will now pass onto its next stage in the Seanad.
The fact the Bill has passed means that it is keeping within the timeline so that abortion services can be introduced in Ireland in January.
Minister for Health Simon Harris said in a statement that it’s a “really significant step forward”.
“We pass this Bill today just six months after the people had their say,” he said. “I also look forward to being able to assure our doctors, nurses and midwives that they can be confident in the decisions they are helping their patients to make and in providing the care their patients require.”
The Eighth Amendment referendum in May of this year paved the way for the legislation to be brought in. That referendum repealed the Eighth Amendment, meaning that planned legislation to regulate termination of pregnancy was to be brought in.
The process to bring in the legislation was delayed due to a number of court challenges to the result of the Eighth Amendment vote.
The Dáil proceedings today were also lengthy and often heated as a number of TDs debated amendments to the proposed legislation well into the night.
Conscientious objection
Conscientious objection was a major contentious point during the debate, over Minister Harris’ plans to introduce GP-led abortion services from January 2019.
The legislation makes provision for this and says anyone wishing to exercise conscientious objection should “make such arrangements for the transfer of care of the pregnant woman concerned as may be necessary to enable the woman to avail of the termination of pregnancy concerned”.
In other words, the medical professional would have to refer the case onwards.
TDs who’d campaigned to retain the Eighth Amendment spoke referenced conscientious objections a number of times, such as former Sinn Fein TD Peadar Tóibín who said that abortion services are being imposed on GPs, and claimed hundreds of GPs do not believe that general practice was the appropriate setting to lead these services.
He said doctors, nurses and pharmacists who are concerned about the proposals were denied a consultation with Minister Harris.
“As a number of other Deputies have stated here, there is a large number of healthcare professionals who will not implement this as laid out,” Tóibín said. “They will refuse to implement it. The problem here is that the abortion service that the Minister seeks to provide will be as chaotic as the health service over which he presides.”
Former Fine Gael TD Peter Fitzpatrick argued for an opt-in system while Fianna Fáil’s Mary Butler said medical practitioners had genuine concerns.
Harris replied that there are many doctors willing to provide these services, adding that he would defend conscientious objection “forever to anyone”.
He said: “We had a referendum on women and women’s healthcare and maybe we should think about the woman.
I will defend forever the right of a doctor or healthcare professional to object conscientiously, but I will not stand over conscientious obstruction.
TDs such as Ruth Coppinger and Bríd Smith spoke against the amendments during the lengthy debate.
Smith in particular took exception to Tóibín’s comments about how a consultation over hedge cutting would take a year.
“Is it getting that ridiculous and inhumane? We need a reality check and to think about what we are saying,” she said.
Amendments proposed to the legislation on conscientious objection were rejected by the Dáil, as was an amendment on the disposal of foetal remains.
‘New era for Irish women’
In his statement, Harris hailed the passing of the legislation as a “new era for Irish women”.
“I can only imagine how the intensity of debate during the campaign and since then has felt for women who have themselves travelled abroad for a termination over many years,” the Minister said.
Who felt the cold shoulder of judgment and the sting of shame at home, and the isolation of being alone and vulnerable abroad. They don’t forget, but the referendum result let a little welcome light into the shadows that were forced on their lives.
I look forward to a time – not far away now – when we will be able to assure women experiencing crisis pregnancies that they will be looked after here at home, where they need not fear that they will be stigmatised for their choices or lack the support they and their families need from our health service.
The next step for the Bill is to now go to Seanad for consideration, with a tight deadline in place to get it through before the Dáil breaks for Christmas next week.
With reporting from Aoife Barry, Christina Finn
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What an awful tragedy. This poor young woman, this mother and wife, has been murdered in cold blood by a cowardly gunman.
She was an MP, campaigner, humanist, wife and mother. RIP and sincere condolences to her husband and children. Truly shocking.
Once again, like in Orlando, it’s not a tragedy it’s a murder
The loss of any life is sad but there is something even more awful when a highly principled, hugely committed, decent, noble and altruistic person, pursuing and supporting good causes, should be struck down by a man full of irrational hate and violence.
I was very affected when the surviving husband said that his wife would not want more hate.
Using the politics of hate and fear will breathe this type of thing.
Well and truthfully said Deborah. It is important that we are aware of that truth and wisdom.
Fear mongering and hate mongering go in only one direction.
BBC reporting that she was shot and stabbed.
Reports saying the attacker shouted “Britain first” as he was tackled.
Probably the start of things to come.
FTA: “Cox was elected to her seat in 2015 and was yesterday part of a flotilla on the Thames backing the Remain side in the Brexit vote.”
There’ll be many a conspiracy theorist shouting ‘false flag’.
You’re the first to raise that theory. I expect that some Trump supporter will launch an attack on a mosque in the near future. People who tell lies and refuse to acknowledge the truth are inciting events like this. Far better they think to be bombastic and unsubtle in arguments than actually engage and when their supporters go a step further and are violent it is no surprise.
@ For Connolly
Far more likely that there are loonies in every religion/sector and this just happens to be one native to the UK.
@oconnlaigh. He may have shouted “Britain First”. Nothing to do with Britain First, just a perverted view of BF, just as “allah Akbar ” before a mass murder has nothing to do with Islam.
Geldof mate?
Why red thumbs? He was on the Thames yesterday calling for an interview vote. Quite possible she was with him
“In vote”
But NOT ALL Britain First members are terrorists!!!!!111
Please remember not all.
Not all. #NotAllBritainFirsters
That’s them god damn Christian extremists again. Let’s build a wall keep them out of Europe.
Does it matter at this moment of time where she was ? I for one hope she survives and make a full recovery so she can continue with her work
Suspect named as a local man called Tommy Mair.
Absolutely tragic…the poor woman has died…RIP.
@Marg, A perverted view of BF? It’s a party of racist christian fundamentalists. Hows that for pervertion? In any case RIP Jo
HOTBank, give it a rest. This disgusting death is on the hands of no one but the attacker.
When there’s an Islamic terror attack, I presume you don’t say it’s on the hands of all muslims, yet here you are being a hypocritical tool.
The suspect has a long history of mental illness and was not a stable individual.
Sadly Jo Cox has died from her injuries. May she rest in peace
Other eyewitnesses are claiming she intervened in a street fight and the attacker didn’t shout “Britain First”. Maybe people should let the facts emerge, before jumping to conclusions.
@James Darcy,
You wouldn’t say that about Muslims.
Folks please wake up.
The one world movement is set to be dealt a crippling blow by brexit. Decades of work could be undone
This is a blood sacrifice by those evil organisations…same people have killed plenty..David Kelly etc.
She was killed to turn public opinion against brexit by identifying that side of the referendum with a calm programmed killer.
God bless her all the same.
Mike, you are deluded. Sick, twisted people exist and the fact that you can’t understand that means you are the one that needs to “wake up”.
Not everything is a big conspiracy by our Brussels overlords.
Wish you were so reasonnable when it comes to murders by Muslims Malachi. Hypocrite.
@ Fintan. The irony pass you by?
Neil, I’m no hypocrite. Global networks waging jihad against the west is nothing like the sick attack that happened today and I think it’s disingenuous to say so. But thanks anyway.
@Marg, Yes your ‘apparent’ irony is lost on me.
@Fintain eh the irony is that Islam is a sexist, racist, fascist ideology. Keep up old boy!
Good man Micheal for stating an obvious but redundant point; while we are talking about religions you may as well throw christianity into the mix of racist, sexist facist ideologies. I was responding to a point about a “perverted” view of Britain First and simply that it doesnt need anyone to express a perverted view on it. Britian First does a fine job of marketing itself as a perverted organisation.
Some of the comments make me question humanity
Sometimes I think they are automated bot responses from thejournal to stir things up.
That’d actually be comforting if it were true Donal
Don’t ever let the Internet make you doubt humanity. We just haven’t evolved fast enough to use it with sufficient control
Murdering someone because you hate what they stand for would make me question humanity, but comments by gits on a website… Not so much.
She has just passed away R.I.P.
Another stabbing in France too: A 19-year-old girl has been stabbed three times in Rennes, western France, in an attack carried out as an attempted “sacrifice” for Ramadan. Her injuries were not life-threatening. The knife attack came just a day after a jihadist killed a French off-duty policeman and his partner in an attack witnessed by their three-year-old son.
You’re linking this to Islamist extremists?
Or you’re just happening to mention two unrelated Islamist attacks for no reason?
Just curious.
Relevance to this? All things are pointing to this being some white British Christian nutjob
There was a stabbing ib Swords last night too. A couple in London and I’d say there were a few in Australia as well. Bloody knives!
Paul, if someone else assumed the race of the perpetrator to be arab/black/etc. you’d be all over them, would you not?
Or is it now ok to assume the race of attackers before facts emerge?
I think that’s what scarr was assuming there?
Where did he assume the race of the attacker? Be specific.
No, merely pointing out a sharp increase in violence in general.
“a sharp increase in violence” – I see what you did there.
Hmmm i don’t know, mentioning the two latest and most recent attacks involving knives carried out in Europe by Islamic extremists?
Are you purposely playing thick to start a debate?
What does Islam have to do with anyone’s race? Anybody of any race can be a Muslim. You’re using lazy racial stereotypes. I’m triggered.
Disingenuous as always Scarr.
You got the propaganda bit in early. Now as details emerge – and the BBC posts pics of the alleged attacker – you have to back down.
And pretend that you were making some abstract point about “violence in general”.
finally! the exception to the rule. This incident will be referenced in future arguments as a strawman
lol that’s not how Radaman works, what kind of idiots are reporting this?
Malachi the journal has only gone and done a journal on us and deleted our comments for no reason.
I think we can at least agree that that’s a load of BS
I can still see our comments..? Maybe I’m missing something
They disappeared and have now reappeared, I feel like quite the silly goose
You would be certainly all over them if they were Muslim Malachi. Hypocrite.
Muslim is not a race. I referred explicitly to assuming the race of an attacker before any facts emerge, because I find it to be distasteful. Again, thanks for playing, but no dice.
First things first the girl is alive and recovering in hospital thankfully. Secondly, the man that stabbed her has a history of psychiatric illness including but not limited to schizophrenia and stabbed her because voices in his head told him to do so. All of this information was in the article Scarr read but he decided to do a bit of editing.
Eh, no she isn’t Dave.
Avina, read Scarrs comment it’s not about the MP in this article but a 19 year old girl in France. Do keep up
Using the phrase “false flag” doesn’t make you immune to requests to back up your paranoid claims but it does make you appear cold and indifferent to a person who was attacked.
Thank God guns are illegal in the UK.
Yes- Otherwise there would be far more of this sort of thing.
Not really, in fact the UK’s murder rate initially nearly doubled after the handgun ban came into force. It’s only now stabilised back at pre-ban levels.
UK has one of the lowest gun homicide rates in the world. How can you argue against that?
“Not really, in fact the UK’s murder rate initially nearly doubled after the handgun ban came into force. It’s only now stabilised back at pre-ban levels.”
UK’s gun related homicide rate is 60 times lower per capita than the US.
Very easily actually, just because the gun homicide rates dropped doesn’t mean the actual homicide rates dropped. As I said, overall homicide rates nearly doubled after the firearm ban. That means more than double the amount of people were being murdered after guns were banned than before.
How can you argue against that?
Seán, you’re obviously missing the point.
The UK’s homicide rate doubled after banning firearms. That means 2x as many people were being killed after guns were banned than before. It’s only now evened out to a similar number to when guns were banned.
Is it really that hard to understand? Banning guns didn’t save lives, in fact it resulted in more deaths.
“Not really, in fact the UK’s murder rate initially nearly doubled after the handgun ban came into force. It’s only now stabilised back at pre-ban levels.”
And how many of those deaths were as a result of handguns? How many deaths before the ban were as a result of handguns? There were no other factors involved in the deaths after the ban? No? Who is misleading people now?
There really isn’t a depth your won’t stoop to to defend your precious guns, is there Jason?
Any facts to back up that statement?
“Is it really that hard to understand? Banning guns didn’t save lives, in fact it resulted in more deaths.”
Correlation does not imply causation. You’re going to have to provide me with a peer-reviewed case study backing up this statement if you want me to take it seriously.
Phil, you strike me as incredibly pedantic. Does it really matter whether a person is shot, stabbed or strangled if the rates are rising as a whole when you take one of these methods away?
The fact that murder rates go up when you take away guns seems to be completely irrelevant to your crusade.
So I ask you for a peer-reviewed case study and you link me to a right-wing, pro-gun website. Care to try again?
“Phil, you strike me as incredibly pedantic. ”
Good.
“Does it really matter whether a person is shot, stabbed or strangled if the rates are rising as a whole when you take one of these methods away?”
Yes. Of course it does when you’re discussing gun crime. FFS.
“The fact that murder rates go up when you take away guns seems to be completely irrelevant to your crusade.”
No, petal, it doesn’t seem to be completely irrelevant. It is completely irrelevant. We’re talking about gun crime. Added to that he fact that you think correlation implies causation, makes you look like an even bigger idiot than I first thought.
“Correlation does not imply causation.”
Indeed Seán, it’s like saying eating ice cream increases the risk of shark attack.
More people go to the beach in the summer to swim and are more likely to enter the water therefore increasing the chances of people meeting sharks, it just so happens that people are more likely to eat ice during the summer too……so as you say….Correlation does not imply causation.
Took a 2 second internet search to find out what BS that link was. Guess you searched for something that backed up what you already believed and ignored that nasty stuff called facts and evidence http://theconversation.com/faking-waves-how-the-nra-and-pro-gun-americans-abuse-australian-crime-stats-11678
Love Jason’s dubious maths above:
- “As I said, overall homocide rates NEARLY doubled”
- “That means more than double the amount of people were being murdered”
I’m nearly 6′ 2″, that means I’m more than 6′ 2″.
Love it when stupid people try to patronise others.
Yes. Peter. Dr. John R. Lott is in the pocket of the NRA.
Jason has never been able to distinguish between correlation and causation.
That young lad Jason sure loves his guns. All guns good.
The more guns the less murders! Lol! Yeah, right.
6’2″? i didn’t know they could stack **** that high.
Jason has a long history of illogicality, false claims, falsehoods and bigotry.
Onky on guns. Jason’s love of guns has disarmed his critical faculties.
You mean to say that the gun related homicide rate in the UK is negative? That would mean that guns cause people to be born? More likely you mean that the gun related homicide rate in the US is 60 times higher that the UK.
Jason Culligan will now do a detailed forensic description of the gun used and explain to us that this was not a dangerous gun and that guns are used only for sporting purposes.,
Jason, you’re 500% more likely to be murdered in the States than in the UK, which incidentally has the same murder rate as Ireland. data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5 You’re also 4500% less likely to be murdered by a gun. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate There absolutely no disputing these facts. If you provide stupid people with deadly weapons you can be damn sure they’ll use them.
Its well known Jason is a member of a gun club in The Netherlands but unlike America I’m sure he can’t bring the guns home with him or purchase them in the local village gun store?.
It seems sane and sensible not to allow guns be brought home.
I find it truly laughable that people are saying that you’re much less likely to get killed by a gun in Ireland or the UK compared to the US. You’re all ignoring the statistical fact that the murder rate in Ireland was comfortably under the 0.6 per 100,000 mark up until the 1972 ban and in 1975 the murder rate rose to a historic high of 1.6. It’s still hovering over the 1 per 100,000 mark which means that since the firearm ban in Ireland a human being is more likely to die in a violent confrontation with another human being. The exact same goes for the UK with it taking 20 years for the homicide rate per 100,000 to return to pre-ban levels.
I’m sure the person dying isn’t saying ‘you know, the increased chance of me dying due to violence probably put me in this position but at least it was a stabbing and not a shooting’.
The witness has just said on Sky no-one shouted “Britain First”.
His surname is Ben Abdullah
Video of him explaining this here https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/743464352066453504?s=09
@Rosa Parks ,Thanks for the link.
Sky are hardly unbiased in this, given their handling of the Orlando shooting amongst other things. Nor are you from personal experience.
What bias are you alleging Sky have here?
He did not say it wasn’t shouted. He said he didn’t hear it shouted. Not the same thing at all. Unless you want o believe it is?
LBJ politics “let’s hear him deny it”
I don’t want to upset Jason Culligan but, as a point of factual information, it should be noted that guns can be used to shoot people, thereby injuring or killing human victims.
The poor woman was shot and stabbed, ruthlessly and viciously, in the presence of her children and husband, to the extent that she is seriously ill, in danger of death or lifelong incapacity and Jason Culligan’s concern is to defend gun ownership. That’s not a healthy outlook.
This is a time to criticise the role of guns, not to defend the role of guns.
What are you yattering on about gun ownership? Plenty of people in this country own guns. Farmers and hunters and it’s the same over in the UK. They don’t go around murdering T.D.s or MPs. There’s nothing wrong with gun ownership under strict regulations.
Switzerland has a higher rate of gun ownership than the USA.
I’m very pleased that you support strict gun laws.
Switzerland has had some dreadful gun massacres but not as bad or as frequent as many of the States in the US. InnSwitzerland, guns are perceived as having a potential defence use in the event of invasion.
The point I made was in general rebuttal of the attempts by Jason Culligan to distract from the danger and lethality of guns and the reality that in certain gun cultures, lax gun controls can be a factor in the murder rate.
Guns plus hate are a bad combination.,
Switzerland may have more gun owners than America but the are not allowed to keep bullets in their homes they must be kept at the gun club. Big difference.
Laissez faire gun regulations is what the difference is Deborah. You can keep bullets at home here as far as I’m aware.
But of course it must be added that most gun crime is committed with illegally held guns. It’s an extremely complicated issue.
The larger mass killings and massacres are carried out by legally held and legally acquired guns.
It may come as a shock to you Micheal, but people are murdered whether guns are prevalent or not. The UK’s murder rate rose by 50% after the handgun ban and Ireland’s murder rate rose by more than double when we brought in strict gun control legislation.
The prevalence of guns increases gun crime and the death rate. Guns kill.
Police press conference now. Sadly she has died
RIP and prayers to the family
What is this crazy world coming to ? May she rest in peace.
Reminds me of the stabbing of Anna Lindh the Swedish FM a few days before their referendum on the Euro about 11 years ago.
In that case it turned out to have nothing to do with her EU views.
There is something seriously wrong with you.
A woman is critical in hospital and you’re here spouting off about random attacks in Sweden 11 years ago?
Get a grip.
It was also am attack on a politician.
But you felt the need to clarify that the attack 11 years ago “had nothing to do with her EU views” and then draw parallels with this one.
Immediately on the defensive. Immediately trying to spin. “nothing to see here – probably just like that attack 11 years ago”
I just think it is extraordinary that your first thought is to try to deflect – before we have any clue about this incident.
Weird, weird mindset.
Rosa aside from it being disgusting that you’re co-opting the name of a human being that actually led a worthwhile existence, your constant insistence on shutting down any potential narrative that doesn’t align with violent white supremacy and Islamophobia is extremely concerning.
You don’t see people like you as full human beings and are heavily invested in getting others to see things through the same lens. All the discord and violence in the world must be experienced by black & brown people, never those living cushy lives in the west.
SJW alert, safe spaces to the ready please.
What White Supremacism? Hope you have a lawyer.
Brinster I was making the point that this attack resembles that on Anna Lindh.
No Rosa
You were trying to preemptively counter any suggestion the awful murder today could be politically motivated.
Because a political murder committed by a white person would undermine your “All terrorists are Muslim” narrative.
Horrible truth is that no religion/philosophy has a monopoly on hatred and violence.
Dreadful attack. Poor woman and her bereaved family.
Certain it was you know who again.
Axel rose?
No. A certain “group”.
Guns’n'Roses??
You know exactly who I’m talking about.
Velvet Revolver?
It must be nice to be so sure about everything.
When you hear hooves you don’t think zebra.
For one thing, she reportedly got caught up in an ongoing altercation so may not even have been the target. Although how hooves factor into this I have no idea.
Carcass? Cradle of Filth? Who?
Has to be crystal swing
He’s in AC/DC now
Na,miceky Joe Hart for sure
Asian> It really depends where you are when you hear the sound
“He’s in AC/DC now”
Who is, Steven Barr ? Jaysus they kept that quiet.
The Mammy from Crystal Swing is actually a man and he’s in AC/DC now?
I’m going crazy here. Please tell me it wasn’t axl rose
Unconfirmed reports coming in on the wire that this was carried out by disgruntled former AC/DC frontman Brian Johnson
AC/DC?
In fairness, GnR do have an Appetite for Destruction after all.
Why would an Islamic extremist shout “Britain first”? You obviously didn’t read the article.
That’s because you’re wrong, very wrong, you fool.
All previous joking and silliness aside, very sad to hear that Jo Cox has passed away, a terrible tragedy for her family, friends and community.. rest in peace.
I thought the mam from crystal swing was Gary busey…..
Sad she died..
Sad to see so much silly and frivolous posting on this. A highly dedicated and respected public servant and mother of young children has been killed in a neighbouring country. Whether or not you have strong views on the Brexit issue in either direction, this is an attack on democracy.
Terrible,RIP.
The Leave side takes the lead this week and this happens. False flag attack.
Mentally unstable people do exist. Hope she recovers from the attack.
People who use the phrase “false flag” unironically are usually total idiots. Congrats, you made the grade.
Yeah Eamonn, she’s probably complicit in her own attempted murder. These Remainers are sneaky like that
False flag me hole. The killer was mist likely a nationalistic Brexit loon.
Saddened to hear she didn’t make it. Thoughts with her family and friends.
Arrarently, the perpetrator is a strongly motivated Brexit supporter.
Do you have a source? Thanks
Radio Yorkshire reported it as a statement by a bystander who did not see the attack but asserts that the perpetrator was known to be very strong and strident in his pro Brexit support. It’s only a statement from one person and it has not yet been corroborated.
We cannot exclude the possibility that , even though it seems that the attacker was apparently pro Brexit, that this might not have been his direct motivation but it does look unlikely that it was a personal grievance at work.
Yeah I wouldn’t regard that as a very good source, seeing as the person who made the claim didn’t even see the attack..?
Whoever did it is a twisted monster who should be punished to the full extent of the law, anyway. Zero tolerance for the murder of elected representatives.
The Maria Eagle tweet “Britain First” has been deleted.
There are extensive online reports that the killer had far right connections and memberships. It looks like political extremism combined with a history of mental illness.
The deceased MP was highly prominent, as is her husband, in the Remain campaign.
It is only an inference but it may not be entirely coincidental that this killing occurred during the campaign for and against Brexit.
It looks like initial reports are unsound. This may have been just the irrational action of one lone isolated and delusional individual. It is just as well that active campaigning on Brexit has been suspended for now.
Nothing valid can be drawn, for or against Brexit, as a result of this awful tragedy.
This video from Sky has a witness denying he heard “Britain First”. This “BF” claim is LBJ politics. Video below. https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/743464352066453504?s=09
correct your story Journal , the “britain first” is nonsense
How do you know?
because the witness confirmed that he didnt hear this and the MP that tweeted t deleted her tweet. Good enough?
See video of witness here.from sky It didn’t happen https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/743464352066453504?s=09
Shocking…..
Regardless of who did or didn’t do this or what they said, it’s very likely this came out as a result of the high tensions surrounding a bitter and highly unnecessary campaign largely fuelled by fear and Xenophobia. People seek independence from the UK, not the other way around. And it was largely immigrants, as with the US, that made Great Britain “great”.
Jo was an ardent supporter of a lot of things this comment sections hates, so please don’t shame her memory and sickening death by twisting it into something against a group that’s already under enough attacks as it is. While the world is on average less violent than it has been in previous historical periods, events like this are still extremely concerning and evident of a certain societal stability. Either way, it’s extremely sad someone had to lose their life unnecessarily over what was likely a politically motivated attack. Let us rise against fear and start communicating again, so that we might avoid bloodshed like this in the future. It’s what she would have wanted.
“Jo was an ardent supporter of a lot of things this comment sections hates, so please don’t shame her memory and sickening death by twisting it into something against a group that’s already under enough attacks as it is. ”
You don’t appear to have a problem twisting it to suit your own agenda.
Perhaps take your own advice.
‘o please don’t shame her memory and sickening death by twisting it into something against a group that’s already under enough attacks as it is.’
I think you’re the one who is doing that by using this incident to beat people who have genuine concerns about the extraordinary levels of immigration over the head.
Poll after poll shows that immigration is at the top of the concerns of the British people. That does make them racists or xenophobes.
Lunatics are taking over
Really sad. This is the reality of an increase in extremist right wing views, the true evil in western society.
Body count begs to differ Rochelle.
Really sad. The reality of the huge increase in Islamic extremist right wing murders in the name of the Koran, the true evil of the world today.
Well said Rochelle,the rabid right rear they’re ugly head every couple of decades and wreak havoc on Europe. Here we go again….
Whole world’s gone mad. The slaughter of innocents day in day out is beyond appalling. Thoughts to her family
Any of the A&E nurses will tell you that about 10 knife wounds a night are treated on Dublin. They classify them as accidents but privately they say most are a result of attacks on wives or husbands.
How come only half of my diahorea is posted but all appears on my timeline. Isis has better IT handling capabilities.
“Of each other, we should be kind
While there is still time”
Philip Larkin, Poet
Nobody shouted Britain first. Unless you want to believe a Muslim, who stands to gain from Britain staying. Reports are being corrected all over.
Andy, It was the Muslim man Ben-Abdullah who said no one shouted ‘Britain First’.
You’re right Bingo! Twitter is a terrible source of clear information and between the Mayor of London bringing Sharia into force and what happened in Orlando i’ve been quite tetchy.
Still, the point remains that the man didn’t say it – but that didn’t stop the largely disingenuous pro-EU side using it for political points. Disgusting.
Andy, I think initially it was reported that Ben-Abdullah said the man shouted Britain First….but he has clearly stated he didn’t hear it and he seems to have been in a good position to hear and see what went on. More will come out on this and someone else may have heard and saw what happened. But yes, I totally agree with you – if they can make any link to Britain First and Brexit – they will.
@ Andy
“between the Mayor of London bringing Sharia into force… i’ve been quite tetchy”
No Andy.
You haven’t been “tetchy”. You’ve been bigoted, prejudiced and just plain wrong.
The statement “Unless you want to believe a Muslim” is bigoted. To believe that Muslims are inherently dishonest is bigoted.
You are a bigot.
Not “tetchy”.
Sunday world had it first.
How nice for them.
RIP
There will be arguments back and forth about what motivation, political or otherwise, was behind the attack. What it does represent to me though is the embodiment of the unchecked and often misdirected anger that has clearly grown over recent years against politicians in general. It can be seen on this site on a daily basis where various people commenting will state, jokingly or otherwise, that ‘x’ politician should be shot/hanged etc.
The fault lies in two places: 1. the bombastic hate fuelled populism which is taking over world politics and influencing vulnerable members of the public as well as
2. The growth and most importantly easy usage, of social media, which has united groups of people previously too sparse or hidden to have any real impact. For every group of downtrodden people this has revolutionised life for, there is a group of extremists, sadists, thugs, and quite frankly idiots, who have found each other, convinced each other of their own correctness, and fuelled each others’ rage.
Alternatively, one irrational and mentally ill individual, a loner, may have acted out of some kind of psychotic mental delusion. I would be disinclined to draw too much inference from one incident.,
This is the Leave side, folks.
Honestly Ronan – that’s a stupid statement! Brexit is about democracy and sovereignty – I don’t understand how some people don’t like democracy and sovereignty.
Although I’m not in favour of Brexit, I don’t think that it is fair or right to characterise the Brexit supporters by reference to the actions of one man.
The trigger point may have been Brexit but the killer had a history of mental,illness, the report of “Britain First” appears to have been withdrawn and statements that the killer was strongly and extremely pro Brexit have not been corroborated.
It would be wrong to judge Brexit by reference to the actions of one mentally disturbed person.
Although I’m not in favour of Brexit, I don’t think that it is fair or right to characterise the Brexit supporters by reference to the actions of one man.
The trigger point may have been Brexit but the killer had a history of mental,illness, the report of “Britain First” appears to have been withdrawn and statements that the killer was strongly and extremely pro Brexit have not been corroborated.
It would be wrong to judge Brexit by reference to the actions of one mentally disturbed person.
shame on you trying to score points
Any Leave voter I’ve seen has been racist & xenophobic & ignorant – that’s a fact. They’re not the smartest. Obviously not all are like this – but all comments I’ve read online are.
Unless you are browsing Stormfront forums full of white supremacists, there’s absolutely no way every comment you’ve seen supporting Brexit has been “racist”.
Seriously, lying and hyperbole does not help your case. Being anti mass uncontrolled immigration is not racist. Please, get a grip. Cheers.
If that is all you have seen Ronan you haven’t really paying that much attention.
That’s all I’ve seen, Charlie – legit. Thinly disguised xenophobia. Nothing to do with stormfront – just comments on Facebook, Twitter, etc, Haven’t heard one legit reason to Leave that isn’t based on ignorant or racism, and disguised as something else.
Reclaiming proper democracy, being able to decide what happens in your own country, including border controls, more economic freedom, stopping political union with federal Europe.
These are reasons that have been repeated over and over again. You’ve been looking in some very strange places for your information if all of the above and more didn’t get through to you somewhere along the line.
So, it happens. Jo Cox is killed. Her death is used as a platform to canvass in favour of Brexit.
Her death and her memory deserve more respect.
So, it happens. Jo Cox is killed. Her death is used as a platform to canvass in favour of Brexit.
Her death and her memory deserve more respect.
“It was the woman on Question Time that really did it for me. She was so familiar. There is someone like her in every queue, every coffee shop, outside every school in every parish council in the country. Middle-aged, middle-class, middle-brow, over-made-up, with her National Health face and weatherproof English expression of hurt righteousness, she’s Britannia’s mother-in-law. The camera closed in on her and she shouted: “All I want is my country back. Give me my country back.”
It was a heartfelt cry of real distress and the rest of the audience erupted in sympathetic applause, but I thought: “Back from what? Back from where?”
Wanting the country back is the constant mantra of all the outies. Farage slurs it, Gove insinuates it. Of course I know what they mean. We all know what they mean. They mean back from Johnny Foreigner, back from the brink, back from the future, back-to-back, back to bosky hedges and dry stone walls and country lanes and church bells and warm beer and skittles and football rattles and cheery banter and clogs on cobbles. Back to vicars-and-tarts parties and Carry On fart jokes, back to Elgar and fudge and proper weather and herbaceous borders and cars called Morris. Back to victoria sponge and 22 yards to a wicket and 15 hands to a horse and 3ft to a yard and four fingers in a Kit Kat, back to gooseberries not avocados, back to deference and respect, to make do and mend and smiling bravely and biting your lip and suffering in silence and patronising foreigners with pity.
We all know what “getting our country back” means. It’s snorting a line of the most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia. The warm, crumbly, honey-coloured, collective “yesterday” with its fond belief that everything was better back then, that Britain (England, really) is a worse place now than it was at some foggy point in the past where we achieved peak Blighty. It’s the knowledge that the best of us have been and gone, that nothing we can build will be as lovely as a National Trust Georgian country house, no art will be as good as a Turner, no poem as wonderful as If, no writer a touch on Shakespeare or Dickens, nothing will grow as lovely as a cottage garden, no hero greater than Nelson, no politician better than Churchill, no view more throat-catching than the White Cliffs and that we will never manufacture anything as great as a Rolls-Royce or Flying Scotsman again.
The dream of Brexit isn’t that we might be able to make a brighter, new, energetic tomorrow, it’s a desire to shuffle back to a regret-curdled inward-looking yesterday. In the Brexit fantasy, the best we can hope for is to kick out all the work-all-hours foreigners and become caretakers to our own past in this self-congratulatory island of moaning and pomposity.
And if you think that’s an exaggeration of the Brexit position, then just listen to the language they use: “We are a nation of inventors and entrepreneurs, we want to put the great back in Britain, the great engineers, the great manufacturers.” This is all the expression of a sentimental nostalgia. In the Brexiteer’s mind’s eye is the old Pathé newsreel of Donald Campbell, of John Logie Baird with his television, Barnes Wallis and his bouncing bomb, and Robert Baden-Powell inventing boy scouts in his shed.
All we need, their argument goes, is to be free of the humourless Germans and spoilsport French and all their collective liberalism and reality. There is a concomitant hope that if we manage to back out of Europe, then we’ll get back to the bowler-hatted 1950s and the Commonwealth will hold pageants, fireworks displays and beg to be back in the Queen Empress’s good books again. Then New Zealand will sacrifice a thousand lambs, Ghana will ask if it can go back to being called the Gold Coast and Britain will resume hand-making Land Rovers and top hats and Sheffield plate teapots.
There is a reason that most of the people who want to leave the EU are old while those who want to remain are young: it’s because the young aren’t infected with Bisto nostalgia. They don’t recognise half the stuff I’ve mentioned here. They’ve grown up in the EU and at worst it’s been neutral for them.
The under-thirties want to be part of things, not aloof from them. They’re about being joined-up and counted. I imagine a phrase most outies identify with is “women’s liberation has gone too far”. Everything has gone too far for them, from political correctness — well, that’s gone mad, hasn’t it? — to health and safety and gender-neutral lavatories. Those oldies, they don’t know if they’re coming or going, what with those newfangled mobile phones and kids on Tinder and Grindr. What happened to meeting Miss Joan Hunter Dunn at the tennis club? And don’t get them started on electric hand dryers, or something unrecognised in the bagging area, or Indian call centres , or the impertinent computer asking for a password that has both capitals and little letters and numbers and more than eight digits.
Brexit is the fond belief that Britain is worse now than at some point in the foggy past where we achieved peak Blighty
We listen to the Brexit lot talk about the trade deals they’re going to make with Europe after we leave, and the blithe insouciance that what they’re offering instead of EU membership is a divorce where you can still have sex with your ex. They reckon they can get out of the marriage, keep the house, not pay alimony, take the kids out of school, stop the in-laws going to the doctor, get strict with the visiting rights, but, you know, still get a shag at the weekend and, obviously, see other people on the side.
Really, that’s their best offer? That’s the plan? To swagger into Brussels with Union Jack pants on and say: “ ’Ello luv, you’re looking nice today. Would you like some?”
When the rest of us ask how that’s really going to work, leavers reply, with Terry-Thomas smirks, that “they’re going to still really fancy us, honest, they’re gagging for us. Possibly not Merkel, but the bosses of Mercedes and those French vintners and cheesemakers, they can’t get enough of old John Bull. Of course they’re going to want to go on making the free market with two backs after we’ve got the decree nisi. Makes sense, doesn’t it?”
Have no doubt, this is a divorce. It’s not just business, it’s not going to be all reason and goodwill. Like all divorces, leaving Europe would be ugly and mean and hurtful, and it would lead to a great deal of poisonous xenophobia and racism, all the niggling personal prejudice that dumped, betrayed and thwarted people are prey to. And the racism and prejudice are, of course, weak points for us. The tortuous renegotiation with lawyers and courts will be bitter and vengeful, because divorces always are and, just in passing, this sovereignty thing we’re supposed to want back so badly, like Frodo’s ring, has nothing to do with you or me. We won’t notice it coming back, because we didn’t notice not having it in the first place.
You won’t wake up on June 24 and think: “Oh my word, my arthritis has gone! My teeth are suddenly whiter! Magically, I seem to know how to make a soufflé and I’m buff with the power of sovereignty.” This is something only politicians care about; it makes not a jot of difference to you or me if the Supreme Court is a bunch of strangely out-of-touch old gits in wigs in Westminster or a load of strangely out-of-touch old gits without wigs in Luxembourg. What matters is that we have as many judges as possible on the side of personal freedom.
Personally, I see nothing about our legislators in the UK that makes me feel I can confidently give them more power. The more checks and balances politicians have, the better for the rest of us. You can’t have too many wise heads and different opinions. If you’re really worried about red tape, by the way, it’s not just a European problem. We’re perfectly capable of coming up with our own rules and regulations and we have no shortage of jobsworths. Red tape may be annoying, but it is also there to protect your and my family from being lied to, poisoned and cheated.
The first “X” I ever put on a voting slip was to say yes to the EU. The first referendum was when I was 20 years old. This one will be in the week of my 62nd birthday. For nearly all my adult life, there hasn’t been a day when I haven’t been pleased and proud to be part of this great collective. If you ask me for my nationality, the truth is I feel more European than anything else. I am part of this culture, this European civilisation. I can walk into any gallery on our continent and completely understand the images and the stories on the walls. These people are my people and they have been for thousands of years. I can read books on subjects from Ancient Greece to Dark Ages Scandinavia, from Renaissance Italy to 19th-century France, and I don’t need the context or the landscape explained to me. The music of Europe, from its scales and its instruments to its rhythms and religion, is my music. The Renaissance, the rococo, the Romantics, the impressionists, gothic, baroque, neoclassicism, realism, expressionism, futurism, fauvism, cubism, dada, surrealism, postmodernism and kitsch were all European movements and none of them belongs to a single nation.
There is a reason why the Chinese are making fake Italian handbags and the Italians aren’t making fake Chinese ones. This European culture, without question or argument, is the greatest, most inventive, subtle, profound, beautiful and powerful genius that was ever contrived anywhere by anyone and it belongs to us. Just look at my day job — food. The change in food culture and pleasure has been enormous since we joined the EU, and that’s no coincidence. What we eat, the ingredients, the recipes, may come from around the world, but it is the collective to and fro of European interests, expertise and imagination that has made it all so very appetising and exciting.
The restaurant was a European invention, naturally. The first one in Paris was called The London Bridge.
Culture works and grows through the constant warp and weft of creators, producers, consumers, intellectuals and instinctive lovers. You can’t dictate or legislate for it, you can just make a place that encourages it and you can truncate it. You can make it harder and more grudging, you can put up barriers and you can build walls, but why on earth would you? This collective culture, this golden civilisation grown on this continent over thousands of years, has made everything we have and everything we are, why would you not want to be part of it?
I understand that if we leave we don’t have to hand back our library ticket for European civilisation, but why would we even think about it? In fact, the only ones who would are those old, philistine scared gits. Look at them, too frightened to join in.”
A. A. Gill.
That’s a good article but it would be decent briefly for today to put the politics to one side out of respect to Jo Cox.
That’s a good article but it would be decent briefly for today to put the politics to one side out of respect to Jo Cox.
That was an enjoyable read. He is a fantastic writer but I would disagree with the overall tone and opinion. Even if he paints a very clear picture of the particular face driving the Leave campaign through fear of Johnny Foreigner.
To be honest, I don’t have a very strong opinion on the ref. If I had a vote I imagine I would have developed one but watching from the sidelines it just seems that both sides are concocting worse case scenarios that have little basis in fact. Truly no way of knowing what a Yes vote would do.
My point though Ronan is that part of the leave campaign is based on a fear of the E.U having too much power. I can appreciate that fear therefore I’m not able to condemn all people from that side as bigot, racists etc.
I don’t think you do either. Just seen the worst probably.
“I’m not able to condemn all people from that side as bigot, racists etc.”
I made it clear it’s not all of them – I said that already. I’m talking about the general comments from Joe public that I’ve heard.
I feel pity for the impressionable working classes who seem so easily swayed into voting Leave; ironically they’ll be the worst affected. This is like Trump in the US – the Leave side are preying on everyone’s inner/secret racism & xenophobia & bigotry, and that’s what’ll put them over the line. But the sad part, is that the EU has nothing to do with any of that. They won’t be retroactively kicking out immigrants who are already legal. Leaving will solve none of the problems they think it’ll solve, and do nothing but cause economic instability.
I know there will be individual trade deals put in place for imports & exports, but without the UK being an EU member state, it may put off foreign investment who would prefer the no-frills free trade between the remaining 27 countries.
I know you made it clear. Last two sentences. I think we agree in general about how the leave campaign has garnered a fair amount of its support but disagree on result of an exit.
Britain will not be left wanting for trade deals. 5th largest economy in the world. Huge influence globally. The question is if Europe would look to punish if they decide to leave. I don’t think they could. I firmly believe the EU needs the UK more than other.
No doubt workers rights have improved greatly in the last 50 years but it cannot solely be attributed to EU membership. This is not an attack on the EU, just accepting that once a good thing is not always the best thing for the now.
Osborne and his 4,300 worse off stuff….Just a lot of nonsense from both sides.
For all the fools on here saying that this has nothing to do with Brexit or Britain FIrst, I challenge you to find any ‘loon’ on the remain side who would commit an act like this.
Witness says it wasn’t said Video below. https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/743464352066453504?s=09
Take a look at @PrisonPlanet’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/743507150761263104?s=09
Problem, reaction, solution. Classic triple lock ploy. May she rest in peace, just another pawn.
Unite against hatred.
Make something good and positive out of the tragic death of Jo Cox.
Odds of a brexit increasing rapidly. Between this and the football hooliganism it would appear the caliber of person who wants out has finally become clear to the sound thinking voter. I think the race is done.
Absolutely ridiculous. Correct me if I’m wrong, but if it were an Islamic attack you’d be defending muslims to the death saying that the attack doesn’t represent the majority. Quite rightly.
And now, once it suits your agenda, you imply that this attack and “hooliganism” represents the type of person who wants out of Europe.
You should have a good hard look at yourself.
Voters are intelligent enough to separate the two issues.
Malachi, you should have a good hard look at yourself. This is where your rhetoric is going. When it suits your agenda, you have no problem insinuating that all Muslims pose a threat. Hypocrite. Btw, I’m only responding to you because we have argued before and I am well aware of all the things you have said.
Neal, I don’t know that Malachi has said that actually…can you produce evidence? Clear evidence that Malachi has said ‘all Muslims’ whatever?
Where did I ever say, or imply, that all muslims pose a threat, Neil? I’d like a source for that claim. I’m always very careful with my words because I don’t believe what you say I believe. You’re basically slandering me, when I haven’t said anything of the sort.
I’d really like you to back that up, if you don’t mind.
I remember the things you have said, and you know the things you have said. Asking me to provide details is just more deflection in this goldfish bowl. Perhaps you’re not even aware of what you’re doing because you think you’re telling the truth. See how careful you are not to allow anything to be extrapolated from the actions of the lunatic who carried out this murder, something which you never do when Muslims are responsible. You’ll be back again in no time at all tarring an entire religion with the actions of a few without the slightest awareness of what you are doing, which is feeding the hate machine and the clash of civilisations agenda.I’m not wasting my time anymore. What will be will be.
How absolutely ridiculous is that. You slander me on a public forum, and when asked for evidence you simply call it “deflection”.
Honestly, even you must see how outrageous that is. You’re just making things up and saying them because you feel like it. I have never said anything like what you implied. I’ve actually said the opposite on multiple occasions on threads you must have seen.
Your attempt to brand me as some kind of bigot is useless. I am not a bigot and you can’t put the words into my mouth. Please, get some facts behind you next time you try and go after someone. Pathetic.
This descent into mayhem is gathering pace. Wait till the next terrorist attack and see how different standards are applied to different situations by the rump of journal right-wing commenters.
RIP.
Unimaginably random and shocking/ RIP thoughts with the family
‘about this gentleman.’ Eh that creature is NO gentleman. Those poor children are after having their Mother taken from them and in such horrific circumstances!
Too Sad and too Savage for words! RIP
God love her!! My heart goes out to her two children and her husband. What a thing to do!! A defenceless woman stabbed and shot in broad daylight!!! What an evil turd!! He’ll be declared insane probably. Then spend a few years in a house for disturbed people and then after three years, go free!!! I don’t believe in the Death Penelty butin his case I do!!!
have your say