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'Huge' number of responses on how to exempt students from studying Irish

Over 2,100 responses were submitted in the weeks before Christmas, so the government has extended the deadline for submissions.

A RECORD NUMBER of submissions from the public have been made to the government in relation to the consultation on how to exempt students from studying Irish in schools.

Over 2,100 responses had been submitted to the online survey, which was launched on 7 December, by the week before Christmas and further responses have continued to be received.

This is one of the largest ever responses to a consultation of this kind by the Department of Education and Skills. As a result the deadline for submissions is being extended by a week until Friday 18 January. 

“I am delighted to see this huge level of interest in the consultation on the granting of exemptions from the study of Irish,” Minister for Education Joe McHugh said.

It’s an indication of how important an issue the teaching of Irish is for many, many people, and how strongly people of all ages feel about the teaching of our national language.

The consultation is seeking views on the way students can apply to be exempted from the study of Irish in schools. As part of the consultation, Minister McHugh published new draft arrangements and the consultation is seeking views from the public on these proposals. 

 The survey asks respondents to indicate whether they ‘Strongly agree’, ‘Agree’, ‘Disagree’, or ‘Strongly disagree’ with several key aspects of the proposals and it includes an option to provide additional written comments.

“I think the level of participation in the survey shows the success of adopting a simple and straightforward approach when asking the public about their views,” said Minister McHugh.

I am delighted that over half of respondents (56%) who had submitted responses before Christmas had also opted to provide additional comments.  

The proposals and survey are available here. Queries on the consultation or additional submissions can be sent to: consultation_exempti@education.gov.ie.

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67 Comments
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    Mute Conall
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    Jan 4th 2019, 8:27 AM

    Requiring everyone to learn Irish for cultural reasons is not unreasonable. However, teaching children to analyse poetry and write essays in a language they do not use everyday is a waste of time. Most of us couldn’t analyse a poem in English. Teach conversational Irish that you might use again, or at least might develop an attachment to. How many of us have warm memories of the modh connealach?

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    Mute Fear Uisce
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    Jan 4th 2019, 8:32 AM

    @Conall: +1, I have more bad memories of being force fed poetry and Shakespeare plays than I have of learning Gaeilge

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    Mute Kem Trayle
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    Jan 4th 2019, 11:06 AM

    @Conall: @Paul Corcoran: My son is borderline-dyslexic so Irish was a nightmare for him and it caused him a huge amount of stress, shame and used up a disproportionate amount of his study time. I had to jump through many hoops to get him exempted (including a full psychological exam) but he’s a much happier kid now and flourishing in his other subjects.

    I’m all for preserving our culture, but not at the expense of our children’s mental health.

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    Mute Kem Trayle
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    Jan 4th 2019, 11:08 AM

    @Conall: Also, when I saw the word “Teach” in your post my brain said “House” – the brainwashing is kicking in.

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    Mute john mc carthy
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    Jan 4th 2019, 11:53 PM

    @Conall: have to agree as a teacher of irish we must get students communicating properly and not forcing particularly weaker students to analyse poems and stories. Irish is so rich in language and culture it should by be a strain. However it is annoying to see students doing French but not irish… disregard

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    Mute acallkelly
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    Jan 5th 2019, 4:40 PM

    @Conall: love the modh when I understood it.

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    Mute Paul Corcoran
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    Jan 4th 2019, 7:01 AM

    The solution is obvious. Let everybody choose.

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    Mute Jasun Ó Cearnaigh
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    Jan 4th 2019, 7:35 AM

    @Paul Corcoran: choose all subjects so Ya?

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    Mute Paul Corcoran
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    Jan 4th 2019, 8:00 AM

    @Jasun Ó Cearnaigh: Apart from English and Maths, which people actually use, yes.

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    Mute Bilbo Baggins
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    Jan 4th 2019, 8:28 AM

    @Paul Corcoran: Jason’s probably right. If it’s going down the ‘choice’ route, everything must be optional. There’s as many arguments for Shakespeare being a pointless study along with algebra as there is Irish being the same.

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    Mute An bhearna
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    Jan 4th 2019, 9:56 AM

    @Bilbo Baggins: Yes there is. Which means we desperately need to review both the syllabus and how these subjects are taught. For instance the leaving cert syllabus hasn’t changed in the 32 years since I left school, and I still haven’t found a need for algebra or Shakespeare !

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    Mute Rochelle
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    Jan 4th 2019, 12:43 PM

    @Bilbo Baggins: I’m sure Shakespeare and Algebra aren’t present on the foundation English and Maths course. Basic English and Maths are the only required skills for functioning in life in Ireland, everything else should be optional.

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    Mute Richard Russell
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    Jan 4th 2019, 4:38 PM

    @An bhearna: to me the Irish language is a foreign language spoken with a foreign accent. That is after 12 years learning the stupid language

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    Mute TamuMassif2019
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    Jan 4th 2019, 10:59 PM

    @Jasun Ó Cearnaigh: English and maths should be permanent otherwise they all choose art and media studies?

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    Mute Colin Ring
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    Jan 4th 2019, 8:45 AM

    The teaching of the Irish language has been in trouble for years. Maybe teaching it as a spoken language with a stronger emphasis on Irish culture and heritage would help

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    Mute Niall Murphy
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    Jan 4th 2019, 9:54 AM

    @Colin Ring: Hi Colin

    ‘Maybe teaching it as a spoken language with a stronger emphasis on Irish culture and heritage would help’ – Exactly! To encourage and develop a passion and an interest in the language.

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    Mute Michael Mclaughlin
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    Jan 4th 2019, 8:49 AM

    I did quite well in my leaving cert, apart from irish, which I failed. That’s 14 years of learning a language only to fail. I knew way more Spanish and French after 3 years. I should have at least the opportunity to drop it in 3rd year leaving me more time to study the subjects I had interest in.

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    Mute Niall Murphy
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    Jan 4th 2019, 8:31 AM

    The mind boggles at Irish people discussing and insisting on the destruction of our native language.

    There must be a massive increase in efforts to increase the number of people speaking Irish not a decrease in numbers.

    It must start in the teacher training colleges in my opinion, no teacher should be able to qualify to teach without being fluent in Irish and qualified and able to teach children to comprehensively read, write and speak in Irish.

    The State should be setting a goal of ensuring primary school children are leaving primary school fluent in Irish right across the country. There is no reason our country cannot be fluent in Irish and English which will only increase the ability to learn additional languages.

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    Mute Sorcha Ní Shúilleabháin
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    Jan 4th 2019, 8:40 AM

    @Niall Murphy: So should primary teachers also be expert scientists, musicians, artists, geographers, mathematicians, historians etc. in order to get jobs?

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    Mute Niall Murphy
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    Jan 4th 2019, 9:07 AM

    @Sorcha Ní Shúilleabháin:

    Hello Sorcha, there are very many teachers already highly proficient in each subject you mentioned and I do hope we can take it for granted that teachers are generally highly proficient in the subjects you mentioned, otherwise what the hell are they doing teaching in the first place????

    I stand over my comment above regarding teachers being fluent in Irish. This must become the norm going forward, it has to be and it will only benefit future generations both as individuals and collectively as a nation.

    We would also see an increase in ability and interest to study other languages as a result, so to think in some way fluency in and a passion for our native Irish language is a negative, is really short sighted in my opinion.

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    Mute Ronan Fahy
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    Jan 4th 2019, 9:42 AM

    @Niall Murphy: it must nothing. Let people who want to learn it, learn it. Don’t waste everyone else’s time forcing a useless language down their throats. Don’t waste money and resources translating official documents into a language nobody actually needs

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    Mute Niall Murphy
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    Jan 4th 2019, 10:39 AM

    @Ronan Fahy: Hi Ronan,

    Sorry and genuinely sad to see you have a very negative view of the Irish language, I hope in time that will change to a more supportive positive view.

    Why do you feel so strongly against the Irish language? Did you learn it at Primary and Secondary school?

    What do you think could have been done and could be done to teach Irish in a more meaningful way so to encourage the learning and enjoyment of the Irish language?

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    Mute Conor Heffernan
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    Jan 4th 2019, 10:40 AM

    @Niall Murphy: spending 13 years teaching kids Irish is a profound waste of time. The language is essentially dead outside of a couple of pockets here and there. Rather than continue to flog a dead horse the time could be spent on other subjects. I learned Irish, I was relatively good at it, i did higher level at the leaving cert but I never once used it outside of school and if I was to attempt to strike up a conversation with someone on the street 99% would think I was some sort of a head case.
    Leave Irish to people who want to learn it…the gaeltacht areas etc. Ramming it down people’s throats won’t bring it back to life…we have 97 years experience that shows it doesn’t work.

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    Mute Niall Murphy
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    Jan 4th 2019, 10:57 AM

    @Conor Heffernan: hi Conor

    They may not understand you but I doubt they would think you are a headcase, no idea why you would suggest this??

    Don’t waste what you have learnt, use the good level of Irish you have and why not encourage others to do the same, no matter whether they have 5% it 95% of Irish, encourage them instead of beating your mother tongue into the ground, what good comes of that?

    Yes we have had decades of poor teaching techniques absolutely but the face our language has survived after 100s of years of the language being oppressed is quite incredible and I really feel it is vital the language grows because of the profound importance for a country to have and enjoy it’s native tongue.

    Irish is far from Dead/Dead horse as you describe. If you want to use a horse as an image of the Irish language –

    ‘I see it as a horse which has made and survived and incredibly difficult, sad, harsh, violent journey but it never gave up thru all its trials and tribulations and now it has arrived home to its stable, to it’s people and it is time we took the horse in, cared for it and nurtured it back to full health’.

    Irish people beating their own language down are ultimately beating themselves and future generations down even though I do understand the decades wasted teaching the language badly but everything changes and the way Irish is taught, well this too can change.

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    Mute John Mc Donagh
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    Jan 4th 2019, 1:32 PM

    @Niall Murphy: Yeah Yeah. Dev did that, He unleashed a regiment of fanatical “stick and strap men” on the poor unfortunate pupils because of an unholy mantra from 1916 of ” A country without it’s language——”

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    Mute Declan Collison
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    Jan 4th 2019, 1:56 PM

    @Niall Murphy: if my kids attended German lessons for 13 years and never progressed past a few nursery rhymes i would be seriously pissed off with the teachers and the School that stood over these standards, think I would be of the opinion that, if your into Irish go for it, but personally I would have preferred to learn a modern European language, rather than being thought about the glory of blood sacrifice and burn everything British bar their coal as gaeilge in the 70′s and 80′s didn’t realise it was Dept of Education policy to have ex Christian Brothers, use Hurley’s to literally beat the language that you came to hate into you on a daily basis in their “Wahabi” style Schools. No wonder generations of Irish people grew up with mental health issues

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    Mute Richard Russell
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    Jan 4th 2019, 4:40 PM

    @Conor Heffernan: to me the language is a foreign language spoken in a foreign accent

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    Mute John Moylan
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    Jan 4th 2019, 5:40 PM

    @Niall Murphy: the language is destroying itself through its appalling application and curriculum. And the State is complicit in it. It should be electI’ve : then it’ll flourish.
    Irish music flourishes because……it’s elective, because people CHOOSE to do not. Once you introduce compulsion interest goes out the window and apathy and resentment sets in.
    And rightly so.

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    Mute Richard Russell
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    Jan 4th 2019, 9:00 PM

    @Niall Murphy: where did all the fada’s come from you will find very few in the old manuscripts, are they there to make the written language exclusive.

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    Mute Leadóg
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    Jan 4th 2019, 7:14 AM

    I look forward to seeing the results to the surveys for maths, english, geography, history etc.

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    Mute Leadóg
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    Jan 4th 2019, 8:08 AM

    @Roy O’Rourke: Anyone who calls a language, any language useless is a fool.

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    Mute Roy O'Rourke
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    Jan 4th 2019, 9:09 AM

    @Leadóg: I used to know the Irish for fool but I can’t remember it now. Thank Christ for that. Cleansed of the bog Roman you could say

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    Mute Roy O'Rourke
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    Jan 4th 2019, 9:19 AM

    @samstheman The amount of time and money wasted on the Irish language is astounding. Simple things like having to have road signs and documents in two languages of which one nobody reads boggles the mind. When I say nobody I am of course excluding those with fadas in their otherwise unpronounceable names

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    Mute Leadóg
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    Jan 4th 2019, 9:22 AM

    @Roy O’Rourke: Fool is ámadán. I’m sure you’ll remember it everytime you look in the mirror

    43
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    Mute Pól Ó'hAodha
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    Jan 4th 2019, 9:36 AM

    @Roy O’Rourke: Lets just kill off a large part of our heritage so, moron.

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    Mute Roy O'Rourke
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    Jan 4th 2019, 10:02 AM

    @Pól Ó’hAodha: I’d be up for that. Forced Irish and Catholicism should have no place in schools for children

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    Mute Fear Uisce
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    Jan 4th 2019, 10:06 AM

    @Roy O’Rourke: troll

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    Mute Patrick FitzGerald
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    Jan 4th 2019, 10:54 AM

    @Fear Uisce: So someone who doesn’t believe in forcing pointless subjects (in the case of Irish) and dangerous, repressive ideologies (in the case of Catholicism) down the throats of children because “tradition” is a mere troll? Lord forbid anyone have genuinely held opinions about anything!

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    Mute Roy O'Rourke
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    Jan 4th 2019, 12:56 PM

    @Fear Uisce: Troll? You can clearly see my name and face and I’m not hiding anything. Unlike you of course

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    Mute Eilish Beirne
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    Jan 4th 2019, 8:00 AM

    Most Irish children are victims of discrimination by the department of education. Many children have a choice as to whether they study Irish or not and can choose subjects less difficult, thereby allowing them an advantage in the points race. Choice for every child please.

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    Mute Rathminder
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    Jan 4th 2019, 8:20 AM

    @Eilish Beirne: I am genuinely curious about your post. How can many children choose whether to study Irish. I thought it was difficult to exempt your child.

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    Mute DeeM
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    Jan 4th 2019, 8:38 AM

    @Eilish Beirne: You’ve got that wrong. It is quite difficult to get an exemption from Irish at primary level and even more difficult at secondary. My son is in 5th year and developed an auto immune disease just after starting back at school in September. He has had two hospital stays since September, the most recent one over Christmas and has missed more days in school than he’s been in. The school principal has been excellent in helping with extra classes for Maths and yes, Irish because she said there’s no way he’ll get an exemption from Irish for the leaving cert because he doesn’t have a learning disability. He may be able to drop to 6 subjects and just do the bare minimum and he can access college through the DARE Programme but an exemption from Irish, not a chance we were told!!

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    Mute Eilish Beirne
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    Jan 4th 2019, 9:18 AM

    @DeeM: if your child is Irish it is almost impossible as you say, however children born outside of Ireland have choices. That is my point really.

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    Mute DeeM
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    Jan 4th 2019, 10:55 AM

    @Eilish Beirne: Gotcha…that wasn’t made clear in your comment. However my son went to an educate together primary school where there were 46 different nationalities and unless the child was diagnosed with a learning disability…they did Irish the same as their school mates.

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    Mute Ciarán Ó Raghallaigh
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    Jan 4th 2019, 10:00 AM

    If I had had the choice of dropping Irish in school, I would have done so. I failed Irish in the leaving cert, not understanding Peig or any of the other literature studied. Nearly 30 years later, my children are going to a Gaelscoil and are bilingual and can grasp other languages really quite easily at the ages of 10 and 7. I’m fluent in French and, so can see this with them. My Irish, because of them, and because I speak French, is now pretty good. I officially changed my name to Irish in 2016 due to The Rising commemorations – I did this for heritage reasons – my great grandfather was involved and I saw that his name on his headstone was in Irish. How useful is my Irish? Probably the same usefulness as my playing music.

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    Mute Ciarán Ó Raghallaigh
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    Jan 5th 2019, 9:27 AM

    @Ciarán Ó Raghallaigh: I must add that my ability to speak Irish now is largely down to having done it in school. Although, I failed the leaving cert and didn’t understand the literature, a lot of it stayed with me.

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    Mute Pete Lee
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    Jan 4th 2019, 11:02 AM

    I hated it
    I hated it
    I hated it
    Nothing to do with teachers or teaching.
    Its dying, lets show some respect and bury it. Or at least make it optional.

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    Mute TamuMassif2019
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    Jan 4th 2019, 11:00 PM

    @Pete Lee: Irish teachers were always cruel mad yokes…

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    Mute acallkelly
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    Jan 5th 2019, 4:39 PM

    @Pete Lee: blame the family on this type of atitude, mine used to say ‘what do you need that for ‘ ignorant attitude.

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    Mute Patrick FitzGerald
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    Jan 4th 2019, 10:56 AM

    If Irish must be compulsory, then split it into a language subject and a literature subject and have the former be compulsory. The depressing, “life is so desperate and miserable” literature kids are subjected to on a daily basis in Irish class would have anyone believe that this country literally never had anything to smile about before the language faded from regular usage! Absolute joke of a subject.

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    Mute Niall Murphy
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    Jan 4th 2019, 11:45 AM

    @Patrick FitzGerald: Hi Patrick,

    ‘then split it into a language subject and a literature subject and have the former be compulsory’—- 100% bang on!!

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    Mute Chewey Bacca
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    Jan 4th 2019, 9:40 AM

    I needed best 6 subjects for a college course so dropped Irish (subject 7) in leaving cert year. A note from parents needed as i did tech drawing papers in Irish class time. Got Bs Cs generally but Irish was a steady F. Interestingly i enjoyed French and always thought they should start Irish afresh upon starting leaving cert. I like using Irish phrases now in social situations so don’t hate the language just in hindsight the way it was taught was the issue for me. During exam week i always had option to sit the exam but decided to study other subjects instead. This was in the late 80s. Probably should have sat it for the laugh and see if a sympathetic examiner scrape me a D lol.

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    Mute Mary Josephine
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    Jan 4th 2019, 9:33 AM

    There’s no way giving choice at primary level would work logistically.

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    Mute John Mc Donagh
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    Jan 4th 2019, 1:46 PM

    O.K.—Let’s have a referendum so .

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    Mute Ooby Dooby
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    Jan 4th 2019, 11:03 AM

    No exemptions, you get free education from the Irish state you learn Irish.

    You can bang on about how useless it is, but it’s part of our culture and we are duty bound to preserve it.

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    Mute Mairin O'Rourke
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    Jan 4th 2019, 12:56 PM

    As mum to a child on the autistic spectrum I once attended a talk given by Dr Tony Attwood. Extremely interesting. He really felt that education should focus to childrens strengths. One of my kids really struggled with Irish, but is strong on geography and maths. School didn’t want to acknowledge the issue so we had an assessment and it turns out he had a language dyslexia issue too which meant he qualified for an exemption. But it was such a fight. School and homework is alot happier now. He continues to do well in other core subjects and I no longer have the 2 hour battle to learn 4 irish spellings. I don’t have any issue with Irish my 3rd child absolutely loves it and is doing very well. Except for when you are asked what is the Irish for unicorn. ;-)

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    Mute Patrick Nolan
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    Jan 5th 2019, 11:30 AM

    @Mairin O’Rourke:
    In the almost identical situation, eventually got the exemption.

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    Mute Jaci Black
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    Jan 4th 2019, 1:10 PM

    The more Irish, the better. A beautiful language and a great gift. Start by learning and taking pride in and respecting our ‘Amhran Na Bhfiann’.

    Irish people living abroad have more pride, respect and appreciation for Irish language, culture and history.
    The Irish American’s make a show of us.

    Not supporting and encouraging our language and heritage is a shameful and embarrassing legacy from our present, to our future generations.

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    Mute Pete Lee
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    Jan 4th 2019, 4:09 PM

    @Jaci Black: I think that NOT one comment here is in Oirish really says it all.

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    Mute Damon16
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    Jan 4th 2019, 10:18 PM

    Some people love the Irish language, others don’t. Its a personal thing, get over it. The more you push it, the more the people who are not interested in it will detest it. It should be compulsory up to JC to give people a flavour of it then optional thereafter.

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    Mute Sean Thornton
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    Jan 4th 2019, 10:22 PM

    I prefer to look upon myself as European rather than just Irish. In that context, English, French, Spanish, Russian and German languages are clearly the most important, the auld rusty Gaeilge is just not at the races. not one bit, more like a broken donkey with a large cross on it’s back on it’s way to be crucified.

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    Mute Robert Deane
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    Jan 4th 2019, 10:30 PM

    Improve methods of teaching irish and make it compulsory for students to learn irish, be they from china, poland, wherever and no matter the age.

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    Mute Ger Duffy
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    Jan 5th 2019, 6:53 AM

    If all primary schools were taught in Irish, children would pick up the spoken language without issue, and by default the parents. I bet many Irish language schools can testify to this. Having said that our whole of school teaching and preparation for the world of work needs overhauling. No job would demand as much time, effort and stress as the junior and leaving certificates unlads you were getting paid a shed load of money.

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    Mute Pete Lee
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    Jan 5th 2019, 10:35 AM

    @Ger Duffy: I dont want to learn Irish nor do I want my children to. So even though they do all honours they do pass Irish. That is the fundamental issue. There are people who dislike it, there are people ambivalent and then people who love it.

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    Mute John Mc Donagh
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    Jan 5th 2019, 11:53 AM

    @Ger Duffy:Dear Ger —if, if , IF YOUR AUNT HAD BALLS SHE’D BE YOUR UNCLE

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    Mute acallkelly
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    Jan 5th 2019, 4:34 PM

    @Ger Duffy: you shouldn’t use an Irish flag as your pseudonym.

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    Mute acallkelly
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    Jan 5th 2019, 4:33 PM

    I hated irish in school but grew to love it later in life, I still only have a smattering but will improve. My earlier negative view came from parents who did not appreciate the cultural significance. My own kids went to school through medium of Irish, the best way to learn it.

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