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LAST UPDATE | 14 Jan 2019
THE GOVERNMENT HAS been criticised for not releasing a report on the Public Services Card because it may “be contrary to the public interest”.
The not-for-profit rights group the Irish Council for Civil Liberties said the Department of Social Protection refused a Freedom of Information request it sent.
However, the Department has since said the FOI was partially granted, not refused.
The request was for the Data Protection Commissioner’s report into the Public Services Card which examined whether the State’s identity card and related systems fully complied with Irish law.
The detailed response from the Department of Social Protection to ICCL’s request relies on Sections 29(1), 30(1), 32 (1)(c), 35 and 37(1) of the Freedom of Information Act.
Amongst other issues, these sections include grounds for refusal of a request based on “public interest” or that the “requester concerned would thereby become aware of a significant decision that the body proposes to make”.
The ICCL has said previously that it is “gravely concerned” regarding the Public Services Card project as a whole.
In a statement to TheJournal.ie, the Department of Social Protection said that “the assertion that the request was refused due to ‘public interest’ concerns is incorrect”.
“In fact, the FOI request was partially granted – not refused – with some sections redacted. The sections redacted were done so under sections of the FOI Act which were clearly stated in the decision letter to the ICCL,” the statement said.
“In the main, these relate to the fact that (i) the investigation by the ODPC is still ongoing and premature release of the documents could pre-empt the direction or decision of the investigation and that (ii) the DPC gave strict instructions that the draft report remain confidential,” it said.
“The Department provided a comprehensive response to the DPC’s draft report on 30 November 2018 and the Department now awaits its response.”
ICCL director Liam Herrick said in response to the FOI decision:
“ICCL is calling for full transparency on the legal basis for the public services card because it violates the privacy and data protection rights of people living in Ireland.
We have been campaigning against its introduction because it’s unnecessary, costly, and of questionable efficacy – and it targets in particular economically vulnerable people, such as those dependant on social welfare.
Further, it is deeply troubling that the government has continued to roll the card out for essential services while a question hangs over its legality.
The group intends to appeal this decision to the Office of the Information Commissioner.
“We believe that the public has an immediate right to know what decisions are being taken behind closed doors about our privacy,” it added.
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The funding of the Irish Council of Civil Liberties might be a more worthwhile freedom of information request.
Anyone with nothing to hide has nothing to worry about regarding this card.
@sean de paore: That old chestnut, “if you’ve nothing to hide”. Used in 1930s Germany to justify total surveillance of the population. It’s being use for the same purposes in Ireland.
What have the government to hide?
@6Shangan: That’s the excuse. There’s no excuse for the imposition of a Biometric National ID card on people and hiding it’s purpose by trying to call it something else.
@sean de paore:
Your contradicting your own comment ‘ if the Irish Government has nothing to hide why not comply with the FOI request ?
@Dave Doyle: biometric? really? you can’t even get your age of it without access to a backend server in one of the govt departments. it *should* contain biometric information to verify id as the whole point was to prevent social welfare fraud, but it didn’t even do that.
@Dave Doyle: “total surveillance of the population”. You really think that is what is going on?
You’re not exactly an expert when it comes to the PSC, Dave.
You wrote on one occasion that the PSC contains your DNA – it does not.
You wrote on another occasion that if you give your mobile number to the Dept of Social Protection, they know what “apps you have on your phone” – also incorrect.
@Chin Feeyin: You’re hilarious!
@Chin Feeyin: If you give your mobile number to the Dept of Social Protection, they can access your alarm details…so if it’s set early in the morning they have reasonable suspicion that you may be working and signing on…don’t use your phone alarm…use your grannies old wind up alarm clock…
@Gulliver Foyle: The government admitted the card contains biometric information and then tried to backtrack on it. This government has made a virtue out of lying, out of not telling the truth about issues, hiding details, covering up. This PSC is no different.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/biometric-data-reference-in-government-privacy-policy-was-in-error-1.3556268
@sean de paore: ah okay Sean, from an cyber security standpoint you just mentioned the phrase every cyber criminal loves to hear, “if you’ve nothing to hide…’ Okay Sean please post up your account numbers, sort codes, all you pin numbers, PPS number, any social welfare claims you have, your place of birth, your address, any dependants? ..please post up the entire lot…if you’ve nothing to hide of course!
@sean de paore: ah okay Sean, from an cyber security standpoint you just mentioned the phrase every cyber criminal loves to hear, “if you’ve nothing to hide…’ Okay Sean please post up your account numbers, sort codes, all you pin numbers, PPS number, any social welfare claims you have, your place of birth, your address, any dependants? ..please post up the entire lot…if you’ve nothing to hide of course!
@sean de paore: wow, how ignorant are you of the potential damage that will ensue from this illegal card – if its illegal and breaches our rights we have a right to be concerned – the old tired ‘if u have nothing to hide” line is the line of a jackass or a government hack – how about this one, ir your argument is true which u seem to think It is, they why if the Government ahs nothing to hide are they worried about people knowing about it and what it can do – see, fixed it for you, idiot
@sean de paore: wow, how ignorant are you of the potential damage that will ensue from this illegal card – if its illegal and breaches our rights we have a right to be concerned – the old tired ‘if u have nothing to hide” line is the line of a jackass or a government hack – how about this one, if your argument is true which u seem to think It is, then why if the Government has nothing to hide are they worried about people knowing about it and what it can do – see, fixed it for you, idiot
@sean de paore: wow, how ignorant are you of the potential damage that will ensue from this illegal card – if its illegal and breaches our rights we have a right to be concerned – the old tired ‘if u have nothing to hide” line is the line of a uninformed uneducated hack or a government plant – how about this one, if your argument is true which u seem to think It is, then why if the Government has nothing to hide are they worried about people knowing about it and what it can do – see, fixed it for you
@sean de paore: wow, how ignorant are you of the potential damage that will ensue from this illegal card – if its illegal and breaches our rights we have a right to be concerned – the old tired ‘if u have nothing to hide” line is the line of an uninformed uneducated hack or a government plant – how about this one, if your argument is true which u seem to think It is, then why if the Government has nothing to hide are they worried about people knowing about it and what it can do – see, fixed it for you
@sean de paore: bull
@Dave Doyle: Yes all of our Ethnic Minorities should have an absolute right to collect their Dole and “Childer’s” allowance in at least two places——EVERY WEEK!
@sean de paore: Wow. Dumbest comment if e read on here in a while.
@sean de paore: Whats up Sean? Cat caught your tongue all of a sudden?
@sean de paore:
@sean de paore: yeah bit off topic lad. You in varukas back pocket or what. Couldn’t care less who finds this. Anyone looking to hold this corrupt sham gubberment to account has my support
@Chin Feeyin: considering nobody knows what’s on it, how do you know?
@Sean Oige: because i didn’t give a sample of my DNA when i applied for the card.
Anything else?
@sean de paore: idi0t
@sean de paore: If you have curtains in your house and draw them at night what are you hiding?
@Dave Doyle: your English language skills aren’t the best
@Ibhar Mac Suibhne: what is mothers maiden name and your 1s pet name nice
Ahh the headline is so eloquently put.
Should read “Government wont release Public service card report because they made a total balls of the whole laws surrounding data protection”
@Trevor Hayden: FG have done nothing right since they were put into office. Every single thing they have managed or implemented has been a disaster.
@David Corrigan: True
@David Corrigan: So true indeed, the ffg machine couldn’t organise a pissup in the Dail bar.
@David Corrigan: running the country into the ground
@David Corrigan: infairness to FG they have had some deacent social policies. It is their misguided economic policies and running of public services that has been a resounding failure.
The PSC is no benign instrument in the hands of any government. It’s nothing else but a Biometric National ID card by the back door, without any legislation to back it up, no debate, against EU law and regulation on ID cards, is being abused by government and open to more abuse.
@Dave Doyle: Against European Law? Yet Greece, Spain, Belgium, Portugal, Germany, the Netherlands, Luxembourg have compulsory national ID cards and I’m some cases make it compulsory to carry it at all times.
@Dave Doyle: Yet you’ve no problems giving Apple / Samsung / Hauwai / Google / Facebook your biometric and personal data to use on a commercial basis.
That’s fecked up anti-government shite if ever I heard it. It’s about time you and your like minded compatriots realized it not the government that’s screwing with your personal data, it commercial bodies whom you give your data to freely, without batting an eyelid.
@Dave Doyle: Yet you’ve no problems giving Apple / Samsung / Hauwai / Google / Facebook your biometric and personal data to use on a commercial basis.
Thats anti-government shite if ever I heard it. It’s about time you and your like minded compatriots realized it not the government that’s screwing with your personal data, it commercial bodies whom you give your data to freely, without batting an eyelid.
@Dave Doyle: Yet you’ve no problems giving Apple / Samsung / Hauwai / Google / Facebook your biometric and personal data to use on a commercial basis.
Thats anti-government biased logic if ever I heard it. It’s about time you and your like minded compatriots realized it not the government that’s screwing with your personal data, it commercial bodies whom you give your data to freely, without batting an eyelid.
@Dave Doyle: Yet you’ve no problems giving Apple / Samsung / Hauwai / Google / Facebook your biometric and personal data to use on a commercial basis.
Thats anti-government biased crapology if ever I heard it. It’s about time you and your like minded compatriots realized it not the government that’s screwing with your personal data, it commercial bodies whom you give your data to freely, without batting an eyelid.
@Dave Doyle:Concerns raised by Digital Rights Ireland&Simon Mc Garr of Data Compliance Ireland.
In Jan-18article “Taoiseach rejects linking of ‘Public Services Card’ to social media”Also in Jan’18 article “Tell your TD to stop the PAC becoming a private sector ID card”
In Feb’18 there was an article in media “Lawyer:PSCs may pave way for compensation claims”.Also in Feb’18 article “PSCs may yet be scrapped in another costly U-turn, Senator claims”
In June’18 article”ID cards plan to stamp out election fraud’.
Data Commissioner started an investigation into PSCs in 2017&Irish Government received a draft copy in Sept’18.It is reasonable that public have a right to see Data Commissioner Report as it involves the use of their personal data&any concerns re:legality,data usage&data retention!
@Dave Doyle: Forgot to add 2 other articles in media last year!
In Feb’18 “The Government wants to exempt itself from the EU’s new hardcore data protection rules-but why?” Journal.ie
In Mar’18″Government Departments may face €1m fines for data breaches” Irish Times.
Also of concern is if a person’s PSC personal data breached & misused how could they prove it?
@Philip Hennessy: who wouldn’t be anti this gang of corrupt filth led by and an unelected sham. I wouldn’t trust them with pennies
@Nuala Mc Namara: Hi Nuala, this PSC is a Biometric National ID card, without any legislation, debate, of the safeguards needed. It contravenes EU law and regulation on data protection. It is very much like the Indian Aadhaar card which has put 1.3 billion people under the most draconian surveillance The card was brought by the Indian government for the very same reasons the Irish government brought it in, the means to prevent SW fraud. The very same company that makes the Aadhaar card makes the PSC.
You can see where the PSC is heading, and the Irish government will do this.
@Philip Hennessy: I use a VPN for 90% of the time i use the internet. THe government IS screwing with your personal data.
You need to read about the Aadhaar card in India. It was brought in for the same reasons the Irish government used. Now 1.3 billion people are under the most intensive, constant surveillance. The company that makes the Aadhaar card also makes the PSC.
The government from day one has lied about it’s purpose, continues to lie, and now refuses to release the report by the data protection commissioner. Why?
@Dave Doyle: I don’t think though,Dave, that private companies that supply these cards can be blamed for Government policies re how the data is used/retained or misused.
@Nuala Mc Namara: Not implying they do Nuala. But going to the same company to have cards made to the same spec, same expertise, there’s little difference in the cards, is a pointer as to how the cards will be used.
@Dave Doyle: down with the Blueshirts
@Nuala Mc Namara: Hmm, there was that fellow who sold personal information to a private detective firm.
@Philip Hennessy: you miss the point COMPLETELY,but don’t let that get in the way of your little rant ..The implementation of this card was mishandled and has left the star open to legal cases by the millions as they used a non legal card as a legal instrument…whether or not the card was good or bad is not the point but anyone who was refused anything on behalf of the card now has a lawsuit against the state and that my dear man is the issue…
@Fiona Fitzgerald: He worked in Department of Social Protection & Employment not the private company who developed the cards,Fiona!
@Philip Hennessy: the only difference is that signing up for social media is voluntary and the government card isn’t. I use the card and don’t mind using it. Only the sneaky way how it was introduced bothers me.
‘Not in the public interest’ = if the citizen’s found out we breach their civil rights they would sue the living byjesus out of us for cocking it up.
@Martin Critten: It’s Social Welfare a department that believes they can break existing employment legislation and engage in age discrimination. Nothing to see here move along until the government introduces new legislation to cover the social welfare’s latest cockup!
@Daniel Kelly: What’s that?
@Martin Critten: and they’d have to abolish Liberty and jail dissenters because we are not in the public interest. Down with the Blueshirts
Something wrong so
@Thomas Linehan: Big Brother is watching you and not just in the shower???
Nothing to see here… look over there !!
I find the card quite useful for ID purposes. I’ve used it a good few times for that. The only info it displays is your photo, name and PPS number. I’m not exactly sure why people get so worked up about it. Plus you can access extra online services through MyGov website if you have it.
@Alan Dunne: How wonderful.
@Alan Dunne: Regina?
@Alan Dunne: Two words: function creep.
@Gary Nolan: Kinda ironic you complain about the government collecting personal but you don’t mind having a Facebook account, that has 1000 times more info. Here, have a look…
Go to Facebook – Settings (top right) – Your Facebook Information – Download your information – View – click Create File
It take up to an 10-15 minutes to create a report, my report was 112 megabytes and I only use Facebook about once a week.
@Alan Dunne: try withdrawing money from a bank your 30 years with and use pcc as identification not acceptable as id
@Alan Dunne: yeah no age, so it’s no good for age verification…
Such information will not remain hidden. Always comes out…
@Willy Mc Caul: After the ministers retire?
My driving licence has my photo, name, address, date of birth and unique identifying number on it. All my correspondence with the Depts of Social Protection and Revenue have my name, address and PPS number on them. My Public Services Card has my photo,name and PPS number on it. If I had a medical card my name, date of birth and PPS number would be on it. As the government already has all our identifying details via our PPS number why are people getting so het up about the Public Services Card?
@Mary Dunphy: Why the need for Public Services Card as the Government’already has all our identifying details via our PPS number”?
I thought originally that PSCs was a good sensible idea but after reading C&AG had concerns there was no business plan issued re cards, Digital Rights Ireland concerns,Data Compliance Ireland concerns,ICCL concerns &that Data Commissioner commenced an investigation into PSCs in 2017, Government attempt at bringing in legislation to exempt itself from new data protection laws(but defeated!),ideas of needing it for social media and voting,I changed my mind.Public services cards also has photos&the person’s signiture&extra information on the chip itself! Because it contains so much information id be concerned of data breaches&misuse of data&how could I prove it?
@Nuala Mc Namara: Data Compliance Europe I meant to say!
@Mary Dunphy: Face data base + facial recognition camera network = totalitarian hellhole.
@Seamus O Shea: The new community based CCTV cameras being rolled out across the country contain facial recognition software. The Gardai are demanding access to the system.
FFG are, i believe, conditioning people to accept a Biometric National ID as a normal everyday thing. When any form of National ID is far from the norm in the country. Just like they are trying to make people accept that homelessness is normal in society. The manner in which this government works is sinister.
I have no problem with the State’s identity card and related systems provided it fully complies with Irish law. Any ex judicial activity by our state should be of serious concern to every citizen.
It’s not biometric, you don’t get your pupils and fingerprints scanned
@Agnieszka Bujlis: They use facial recognition
@Agnieszka Bujlis: It is biometric as facial recognition (photos) and signiture recognition (signitures) are biometric data!
The 3m PSCs issued up to end of 2017 were supplied by the company Biometric Card Services.
Biometric Card Services was renamed Services Card Concepts in June’18 according to media reports and were granted another contract worth more than €9m to print 2m PSCs in July’18.
@Agnieszka Bujlis: But what if you don’t know that you do as you get called in to get your photo done for this card???
The tinfoil conspiracy theories on this card utterly astounds me. Before you sign up to this card, Social Welfare already has access to your name, address, PPS No, Date of Birth, parents details. How else do you think they verify who you are to pay welfar out, whether jobseekers, illness, pension, etc etc. The only thing extra they get when you register is your photo and phone number. There is no bio-metric data being kept because they don’t have that – you would have to give them that!
Way way too much credit is been given to the DSP systems. It’s hilarious
@JC: please cite your credible source for your assumotions
@Sean Oige: He is entirely correct here.
@Sean Oige: I used to work there – there really is no giant conspiracy; it’s hilarious that anyone thinks so.
Social Welfare have your PPS as they assign it to you. Obviously to assign it, they need your name, address, DOB and parent details to avoid incorrect assignment.
They don’t have biometric detail because where would they get that? Finger printing and retinal scanning was discussed but never implemented so other than a photo identifier, they have nothing else.
The photo ID has worked to find people who were trying to fraud the system by claiming under different identities and really that’s a good thing.
Please cite your credible source for your assumptions that this is nothing more than an ID card for welfare
@JC: your face is biometric data, so is your signature. They have both.
@Seamus O Shea: Signature recognition is a behavioural biometric at best. Face can be used for facial recognition, sure. But the passport office and the NDLS have both these and no hissy fits being thrown about them
Eventually everyone in living in the EU will get a microchip implant like dogs that will store all your details
@Michael Maher: that won’t happen when we get rid of the Blueshirts
@Michael Maher: and the problem with this is?..
@Michael Maher: I just get a magnet then to wipe that info off my chip then…
It’s only dictators refuse to answer if what they are doing is legal or illegal, the refusal obviously leans in the direction thay it is illegal.
If the government is able to standby the PSE card release the information, or is the government making up their own rules to suit themselves. Under FOI this information should be released without interference from any government minister or department.
@Paul Bennison: There’s always the rights under the EU charter of human rights?
I had to get this card last week. There really is nothing to display on it
@Allison Smith: There’s a chip on it?
The issue is not the PSC, it’s the because it is just the first step on a slippery slope of the erosion of civil liberties.
Every future improvement to the system will be more invasive, in the name of efficiency and security, using technology currently developed to chip people with this information and more as new technology is developed.
Would people today accept being called in to have a chip injected into their hand to make the system so much more convenient? Absolutely not!
But after a decade or so of conditioning the population with the current system, then the idea will be floated that personal details along with medical information, along with retinal scan, fingerprints and Dna should all be injected for your convenience in a chip in your hand for your safety and security.
S{umbag Blueshirts. Roll on GE19
We need a National Identity Card in this country, and QUICKLY!
@sean o’dhubhghaill: we need rid of the a Blueshirts and Quickly
@sean o’dhubhghaill: And branding on the forearms…
@sean o’dhubhghaill: Why?
Why can it not be used as photo id in banks and credit unions? Seems wrong when had to bring passport and driver’s license to apply for PSC, but saying now cannot be used as id?? Anyone know why?
FOI or no FOI, the corrupt incompetent profuse lying gov will still aim to control what info the people get.
Nothing to see here please move along! Unless you are social welfare and want a red face in court if a case for alleged defamation is taken?
@Daniel Kelly: Reply to Ronan Sexton posted in wrong thread.
Open government?
have your say