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Eamonn Farrell

Opinion Sound the alarm - a proposed EU directive on bad loans will give vulture funds a free rein

A proposed new EU Directive aims to develop a secondary market for non-performing loans and poses a serious threat to the rights of borrowers and consumers, writes Matt Carthy.

IN ALL THE recent discussion about how banks and vulture funds treat their customers in this state – a major new proposal from the EU has been almost entirely overlooked.

It is time to sound the alarm on a proposed European Commission Directive, which aims to develop a secondary market for non-performing loans, and poses a serious threat to the rights of borrowers and consumers.

This proposed EU Directive is designed to promote the use of vulture funds and mortgage securitisation vehicles. (Mortgage-backed securities are created when individual mortgages are sliced up and bundled together into packages that can be traded on by investors, the idea is that betting on the return of the bundled, securitised vehicle is less risky than betting on a single mortgage.)

The directive aims to move this bad debt off the banks’ balance sheets and into the opaque and unregulated shadow banking sector. It will also restrict the right of EU Member States to impose their own regulations on vulture funds.

Following the ugly scenes in Roscommon, it is clear that we need stronger protections in place for households against forcible eviction and the repossession of family homes.

We also need a step-change in our approach to vulture funds.

Sinn Féin’s bill to prevent mortgages being sold without the consent of the borrower, which we expect to come before the Dáil in the coming weeks, would be a major step forward towards ensuring that the borrower has the legal right to refuse the sale of their loan, to a third party.

But unfortunately, all of our attempts to regulate the debt vultures at the domestic level may amount to nothing, if the proposed EU Directive on non-performing loans sees the light of day.

The Commission’s proposals

Now we are dealing with a major new proposal from the European Commission aimed at ‘developing a secondary market’ for loans – whether they are performing or not.

Moving hundreds of billions of euros of bad debt into the shadow banking sector through the securitisation of non-performing loans is incredibly misguided, and will cause major new risks to financial stability.

Mortgage-backed securities, in particular, played a key role in the 2007-2008 crisis.

This was because banks pushed mortgages onto customers without verifying whether or not they could repay them, and then bundled the mortgages into mortgage-backed securities to be traded on.

Instead of making the sub-prime loans that formed part of these securities safer by mixing them with higher quality loans, the sub-prime loans infected the rest of the sector, until major investment banks could no longer put a price on certain securitisation vehicles.

The new proposals will also empower banks to seize some of their customers’ collateral through an out-of-court recovery mechanism.

It seems to me that the Commission is trying to replicate the Irish model in reducing non-performing loans and impose this model across the EU.

That’s why it is so important that Irish campaigners highlight the massive problems that we have experienced – from the NAMA debacle to the mass sell-off of distressed loans to unregulated vulture funds.

It is not a model to follow but a lesson in what to avoid.

The debt vultures will be encouraged to spread their wings and move from operating mainly in Ireland and Spain, where they are currently concentrated, to operating across the EU.

A private equity fund will be able to register in one member state and get a ‘passport’ to operate in any EU state, while only being bound by the regulations in place in the state where it is registered.

A second bank bailout

This EU proposal is nothing less than a second bailout for the banks.

The non-performing loan problem is a legacy of the 2008 financial crisis. This problem was not caused by ordinary people and they should not be forced to bear the brunt of resolving it.

The Commission says the new Directive is necessary in order to allow banks to lend to small businesses once again.

But all of the evidence shows that the ongoing economic problems in the EU are not caused by a lack of lending, but a lack of demand in the economy. The only way to boost demand is to increase public investment and foster real wage growth.

The real goal of this proposal is not to ensure banks lend again but to ensure they return to making massive profits again.

Restrict regulation

Suggesting that the Irish model is a success story that should be replicated across the EU is bad news for borrowers in the rest of Europe.

But the worst part of this proposal is that it will put major restrictions on all future attempts to regulate vulture funds at the Irish level. Our hands will be tied behind our banks.

Say, for example, that public pressure forces the government to finally act to put in place measures to regulate the vultures in a meaningful way.

Unless these laws comply with the EU Directive – which, let’s not forget, is designed to promote the sale of debt to vulture funds – the legislation won’t see the light of day because it will amount to an infringement of the “right of establishment” or “right to provide services” of these private equity funds.

Join our campaign

The Commission has clearly not taken consumer protection issues or fundamental rights into consideration when conducting its impact assessment for this proposed Directive. The flaws in the impact assessment process are so serious that I believe the Commission should withdraw its proposal on this basis alone.

Together with other progressive forces and consumer protection organisations, I will be working to organise an EU-wide campaign against this Directive. The Directive should be scrapped, and the European Parliament must block its progress.

I hope that all those campaigning here in Ireland for better protections for homeowners and farmers, against evictions and vulture funds, will also get involved in this campaign at  EU level.

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    Mute Seán J. Troy
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    Sep 11th 2017, 6:08 AM

    Politicians are getting down to business of scoping a pilot study to consider the establishment of an informal subcommittee to consider the validity of ordering a second report on the validity of establishing a formal committee which might then debate the merits of recommending that a report be written up to forward the position that a referendum might be worthy of consideration by the government.

    In 2453.

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    Mute Charles Murr
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    Sep 11th 2017, 6:13 AM

    @Seán J. Troy: Sean you had comment waiting for a while ? :-)

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    Mute Seán J. Troy
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    Sep 11th 2017, 6:25 AM

    @Charles Murr: Nope. Tragically, this is just how politics works.

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    Mute Deborah Behan
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    Sep 11th 2017, 9:24 AM

    @Seán J. Troy: couldn’t have said it better myself other than the government is going to f this up!

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    Mute aoife✨
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    Sep 11th 2017, 7:40 AM

    There’s no way I’m voting to repeal the 8th until I know EXACTLY what the government intend to replace it with.

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    Mute Deborah Behan
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    Sep 11th 2017, 9:25 AM

    @aoife✨: how about trusting a woman?

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    Mute Fred
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    Sep 11th 2017, 10:21 AM

    @Deborah Behan: there’s a lot of irresponsible women out there… Also, this isn’t just a ‘woman’s issue’.

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    Mute DaisyChainsaw
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    Sep 11th 2017, 10:43 AM

    @Fred: Irresponsible how? Having sex without a husband?

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    Mute Barry Somers
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    Sep 11th 2017, 11:01 AM

    @Fred: so because some women are “irresponsible” then all women should be punished eh?

    Lots of bad men out in the world and statiscially men commit more crimes then women, I guess I should be punished for what they do too……

    The reality is women need to be given control over their own bodies, the situation right now hurts women and puts their lives at risk.

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    Mute Ron North
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    Sep 11th 2017, 7:43 PM

    @DaisyChainsaw: If you’re looking for a husband to have responsible sex with I’m one.

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    Mute RG Law
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    Sep 11th 2017, 6:18 AM

    Let’s just vote.

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    Mute Shane Cormican
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    Sep 11th 2017, 7:15 AM

    @RG Law: no they need another topic if discussion to distract the house crisis and health service issues and Garda issues etc

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    Mute Pat Price
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    Sep 11th 2017, 1:28 PM

    @RG Law: On what? Unless the options that pressure groups really want are before the people on the ballot paper well then its a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater , get what option you want on the ballot paper.

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    Mute Paul Byrne
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    Sep 11th 2017, 6:15 AM

    They should just give these Lunatics their referendum, they will lose, there are plenty of people in Ireland both Male and Female who are against this Murder on demand

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    Mute The Dunes Of Inchy
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    Sep 11th 2017, 6:58 AM

    @Paul Byrne: The only lunatic on this thread is YOU ..Abortion is not murder,pet.It’s a medical procedure that is legally available to Irish women..

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    Mute Paul Byrne
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    Sep 11th 2017, 7:05 AM

    @The Dunes Of Inchy: im not your pet missus, and i want a referendum on bringing back the Death Penalty for people who want to kill unborn babies

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    Mute The Dunes Of Inchy
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    Sep 11th 2017, 7:08 AM

    @Paul Byrne: it’s not possible for an “unborn baby” to get a ‘death penalty’..you must do better at your trolling ..,

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    Mute DaisyChainsaw
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    Sep 11th 2017, 7:44 AM

    @The Dunes Of Inchy: Paul’s on his period.

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    Mute Paul Byrne
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    Sep 11th 2017, 7:54 AM

    @DaisyChainsaw: Yeah its running out me nose, how did you know that? You must be Nostrildamus

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    Mute RG Law
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    Sep 11th 2017, 7:58 AM

    @The Dunes Of Inchy: no it’s not, otherwise there wouldn’t be such a vacuum of doctors willing to carry it out. It’s a barbaric and violent act mostly carried out for convenience in the name of choice. The only people it empowers are those who gain financially from it. It hurts women and let’s society off the hook. Your heart was beating at 6 weeks, you’d fingernails at 12 weeks. Think about that.

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    Mute James O'Shea
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    Sep 11th 2017, 8:05 AM

    @Paul Byrne: Looks like the crazies and your follower of brigading bots are up bright and early. 55 thumbs in less than an hour at 8am. Sad state of affairs.

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    Mute Paul Byrne
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    Sep 11th 2017, 8:08 AM

    @James O’Shea: well i dont want to be on the bad side of Leo ya know i have to get up early

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    Mute The Dunes Of Inchy
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    Sep 11th 2017, 8:33 AM

    @RG Law: How is taking a few pills a’ barbaric and violent act’ ? Whatever reason a woman decides not to carry on with an unplanned/planned pregnancy,she never will have to give her reason/s to the likes of you..It hurts women not being able to access it…My heart was indeed beating at 6 weeks,I was being breastfed by mother at that stage…I had fingernails since I was born,i used to cut my little faceen with them…I’ve thought about what you have said ,& it’s pure emotional hogwash that you have been using..who’d thunk it eh :

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    Mute DaisyChainsaw
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    Sep 11th 2017, 8:57 AM

    @RG Law: Do you think miscarriages are “barbaric and violent”? That’s what an abortion is, a chemically induced miscarriage.

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    Mute Seth Cheffetz
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    Sep 11th 2017, 9:08 AM

    @Paul Byrne: yes, I’m assuming your gender, but I’d guess you will never be affected by this? Why do you feel that you have the right to control other people’s bodies?

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    Mute Toon Army
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    Sep 11th 2017, 9:08 AM

    @James O’Shea: Yep definitely something fishy there, although you’d expect nothing less.

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    Mute Paul Byrne
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    Sep 11th 2017, 9:31 AM

    @Seth Cheffetz: i dont want tocontrol anybody, i am human, and anybody who has any shred of Humanity knows that killing an unborn Babie is the most disgusting thing on the Planet, and before you get into Unborns do not feel anything i watched an abortion and i could clearly see the Baby fighthing the needle which was about to kill it, and that was just one way that its done

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    Mute Coco86
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    Sep 11th 2017, 9:31 AM

    @Paul Byrne: I am anti abortion but pro choice, but what a stupid comment from you sir. I wonder would you be so vocal if one of your family members had or indeed wanted to go through the current ordeal of travelling to the UK for an abortion. I would like to think that if my daughter was in that situation she would tell me and let me help her in whatever way i could. Clearly your narrow mindedness means your family would keep you in the dark. Sad really and your loss! But the likes if you will be dead soon, then no one will care about your silly opinions.

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Sep 11th 2017, 9:37 AM

    @Toon Army: indeed, must be the strong winds keeping them awake in the Bible Belt and southern states of the USA.

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    Mute Paul Byrne
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    Sep 11th 2017, 9:37 AM

    @Coco86: As i far as i know there is Abortions carried out in Irish Hospitals
    In certain cases but not on demand

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    Mute RG Law
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    Sep 11th 2017, 9:38 AM

    @The Dunes Of Inchy: the heart of a foetus is beating at 6 weeks gestation, with arms legs face and fingernails at 12 weeks gestation. It’s human and alive long before it’s born. And you sanction it’s death in the name if choice. It’s a dehumanising act. And for atheists like me even more horrifying when you know there’s no after life, this is it, your one chance at life and as a species we allow the killing of unborn human beings in the name of choice. No thanks, you do me no favours.

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    Mute RG Law
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    Sep 11th 2017, 9:55 AM

    @Coco86: You’re not anti abortion.
    You’re fooling yourself.

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    Mute RG Law
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    Sep 11th 2017, 9:58 AM

    @Paul Byrne: every year, 20-30 terminations take place every year in Irish hospitals to protect women.

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    Sep 11th 2017, 10:12 AM

    @RG Law: i know this, these Witches of Eastwick think because i am a man that they can pull the wool over my eyes but im prepared for these B#tches

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    Mute DaisyChainsaw
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    Sep 11th 2017, 10:46 AM

    @RG Law: And another 3000 Irish abortions are outsourced by virtue of the 13th amendment. Why don’t so called “prolife” campaign to repeal that?

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    Mute DaisyChainsaw
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    Sep 11th 2017, 10:48 AM

    @Paul Byrne: You watch abortions? That’s some kinky shït right there!!

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    Mute Coco86
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    Sep 11th 2017, 10:50 AM

    @RG Law: Simple really, I don’t agree with it but I’d never force my views upon others who clearly have a very difficult decision to make. It’s all well and good to shout and roar but when the shoe is on the other foot how would you react? Im assuming you have a close family, so what if your daughter, niece etc didn’t share your views on abortion and decided to travel to the UK, would you rather support them or bash them? I know I’d rather support all those close to me in that situation regardless of my personal opinion. Because the end result by not doing so is a family member / friend in pain. You are the one fooling yourself

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    Sep 11th 2017, 10:56 AM

    @Paul Byrne: True, but you say on demand like its an easy decision to make. Its not. On a side note, what would you do if there was a referendum and it passed?

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    Mute Paul Byrne
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    Sep 11th 2017, 11:02 AM

    @DaisyChainsaw: you like Abortions do ya, thats some sick s#it rigjt there, if i heard condone this Murder of babies i would forget you where a Woman and treat you like a man

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    Mute Paul Byrne
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    Sep 11th 2017, 11:06 AM

    @Coco86: it wont so thats a stupid question

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    Mute DaisyChainsaw
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    Sep 11th 2017, 11:30 AM

    @Paul Byrne: I like abortions the same way I like amputations or any medical procedure for that matter. And how would you “treat me like a man”?

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    Sep 11th 2017, 11:38 AM

    @DaisyChainsaw: the way any butch gets treated

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Sep 11th 2017, 12:59 PM

    @Paul Byrne: quite the bully aren’t you? Do you threaten and bully every woman that does not agree with you?

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    Mute Coco86
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    Sep 11th 2017, 2:04 PM

    @Paul Byrne: Great comeback glad to see you can appreciate a view separate to your own

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    Mute TheoWolfe
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    Sep 11th 2017, 2:08 PM

    @DaisyChainsaw:

    If you induced a heart attack in someone, that would be cruel and barbaric. When it happens spontaneously it is a sad and natural event.

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    Mute The Dunes Of Inchy
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    Sep 11th 2017, 2:30 PM

    @TheoWolfe: The woman has been told by the medical professionals beforehand, on the procedure that is going to be carried out..She will also be told the reasons to ‘why’ they stop the foetus’s heart…What IS ‘cruel and barbaric’ is forcing that woman to go through with that pregnancy, knowing that the foetus is dying inside of her,or giving birth, knowing that it is missing half it’s skull..Find a new hobby for yourself Theodore :)

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    Mute The Dunes Of Inchy
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    Sep 11th 2017, 2:34 PM

    @RG Law: The “heart” of an “EMBRYO” is beating at six weeks ,so what?
    “It’s human and alive before it’s born” Who says that it isn’t human ? I don’t care if you’re an atheist and are ‘horrified’ by a woman ending her unwanted pregnancy..My advice to you would be not to have one..

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    Mute RG Law
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    Sep 11th 2017, 2:38 PM

    @Coco86: you can’t say you don’t agree with it and off you go and do it … you’re excusing all sorts of acts we find wrong, rape, assault. You are anti abortion because? It’s wrong to kill human life?
    Be honest with yourself and others, instead of hiding behind “choice”.

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    Mute RG Law
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    Sep 11th 2017, 2:41 PM

    @The Dunes Of Inchy: it’s a human being. In countries where it’s accepted as a norm the argument is being made for post birth abortion. What not when you place no value on this human life …
    http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/03/01/medethics-2011-100411

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    Mute TheoWolfe
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    Sep 11th 2017, 2:53 PM

    @The Dunes Of Inchy:

    You are citing a hard case, but you know that is not what is being sought. What is being sought is the freedom to destroy the human being at the convenience of the woman for any reason, and some would argue, up until birth.

    You are just being dishonest to pretend otherwise.

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    Mute The Dunes Of Inchy
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    Sep 11th 2017, 2:56 PM

    @RG Law : an embryo is not a “human being”, pet..If it was,the “pro life” movement would be carrying out fundraisers every week,& lobbying our government,so that they can carry out research into the huge loss of human “lives” that never make it to utero :) They would even be asking them to divert money that goes into cancer research..But even they know that an embryo is not a ‘human being’ ..And as for your silly link.Boring.

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    Mute The Dunes Of Inchy
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    Sep 11th 2017, 2:58 PM

    @TheoWolfe: As I just said To RG,an embryo is NOT a ‘human being’ ..And no woman goes looking for an abortion right up to birth..Can you put up examples of where doctors in hospitals are doing this ? Thanks.

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    Mute TheoWolfe
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    Sep 11th 2017, 3:01 PM

    @The Dunes Of Inchy:

    Sorry Rosie, you need to go back to Biology 101. It may be a legitimate stand to support abortion but it is not legitimate to deny biological facts and treating the truth as a foreign country.

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    Mute The Dunes Of Inchy
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    Sep 11th 2017, 3:19 PM

    @TheoWolfe: You need to wake up pet..

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    Mute TheoWolfe
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    Sep 11th 2017, 3:24 PM

    @The Dunes Of Inchy:

    Just keep denying facts Rosie.

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    Mute kevin windle
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    Sep 11th 2017, 3:28 PM

    @The Dunes Of Inchy: interesting how pro abortionists are so clear about the legitimacy of the “medical procedure” as they see it yet they fight like hell to allow any images or video of an abortion to be part of the debate. Interesting to see if that will change this time around but somehow I doubt it. The visual impact would defeat any repeal effort.

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    Mute The Dunes Of Inchy
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    Sep 11th 2017, 3:42 PM

    @kevin windle: “pro abortionists” ? The majority of people in Ireland are in favour of women procuring abortions for cases of FFA/RAPE/INCEST,so are they “pro abortionists” too :) Sure, if you antis want to put up a video of a late term abortion,then go right ahead..Most decent Irish folks cannot stand the yob defence tactics :) And anyway,we’ll just put up the facts regards those procedures..like showing photos of hugely deformed foetus’ :)

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    Mute The Dunes Of Inchy
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    Sep 11th 2017, 3:47 PM

    @TheoWolfe: The reason that the “pro life” movement don’t do any fundraising into the loss of those “human beings” that never make it to utero,is because they know that they would be scoffed at for thinking that they’re “human beings” like you or me :) Poor pet and your ‘facts’ :)

    Nice try,but no cigar, Theodore :)

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    Mute TheoWolfe
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    Sep 11th 2017, 3:51 PM

    @The Dunes Of Inchy:

    Just keep denying biological fact Rosie, it just hurts your cause.

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    Mute Coco86
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    Sep 11th 2017, 4:06 PM

    @RG Law: So what your saying is a person cant be anti abortion but pro choice? Your single brain cell must be hurting

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    Sep 11th 2017, 4:08 PM

    @Coco86:

    Can you be anti- slavery but pro-slave ownership?

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    Sep 11th 2017, 4:10 PM

    @TheoWolfe: Did slaves have a choice?

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    Sep 11th 2017, 4:14 PM

    @Coco86: All im saying is that while i personally dont agree with abortion i believe in the couples choice to make a decision thats right for them. They will have to live with that choice and dont need to be labelled as murderers. And again, as i said earlier, id rather support a loved one who made that choice as opposed to not, because they are not murderers!

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    Mute kevin windle
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    Sep 11th 2017, 4:15 PM

    @The Dunes Of Inchy: I’m just saying that decisions should be made based on the full facts and not a sanitised debate which is what has been happening for the last 20 years

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    Sep 11th 2017, 4:33 PM

    @kevin windle: as I’ve already said to you,most Irish people want women to be able to have the choice of ending a pregnancy, due to them getting a diagnosis of a FFA..Look Kevs,you can show people all you like about that procedure but most people will take the side of the human being.They don’t want to see the woman who is already suffering physically and mentally,not to be put through anymore suffering..It’s people like you,that want that to continue..And if you want people to see how the majority of abortions are carried out in the 1st trimester,then they will be so bored..

    Theodore ; nothing hurts my ’cause’ when I’m saying that an embryo is not a human being..you cannot prove that it is…and when 65% of those “human beings” never make it to utero and most human beings not caring that they don’t..

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    Mute TheoWolfe
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    Sep 11th 2017, 5:21 PM

    @The Dunes Of Inchy:

    Keep playing the ostrich.

    [All] organisms, however large and complex they might be as full grown, begin life as a single cell. This is true for the human being, for instance, who begins life as a fertilized ovum.”

    Dr. Morris Krieger “The Human Reproductive System” p 88 (1969) Sterling Pub. Co

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    Mute Baltimore Lass
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    Sep 11th 2017, 8:49 PM

    @TheoWolfe: Just reading through the comments and it looks like that you’re now saying that a fertilized egg is a ‘human being’ .Have you ever thought of getting some therapy ?

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    Mute Toon Army
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    Sep 11th 2017, 7:48 AM

    This is about basic women’s rights. Time to get out of the dark ages and vote now. Also, having the vote in the summer when many young people, the future of our country, are out of the country is unacceptable. This just plays into the hands of the old guard.

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    Mute Ismise Máire
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    Sep 11th 2017, 7:52 AM

    @Toon Army: actually its about human rights. Not just for wonen you know??? Human rights for ALL. SAVE THE EIGHTH!!

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    Mute The Dunes Of Inchy
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    Sep 11th 2017, 9:15 AM

    @Ismise Máire: The Human Rights Commissioner on the Council of Europe,he made it very clear to the Irish government when he said that, “international human rights standards do not protect the life of ‘unborn children.’ They protect women.” Imagine that?

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    Mute Paul Byrne
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    Sep 11th 2017, 9:42 AM

    @The Dunes Of Inchy: probably Childless this Commisioner and by that i mean was too miserable to have any or adopt any like most European Leaders or Angela Merkel types

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    Mute RG Law
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    Sep 11th 2017, 10:00 AM

    @Toon Army: actually it’s a human rights issue, the right to live the most basic and human right.

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    Mute Toon Army
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    Sep 11th 2017, 11:12 AM

    @RG Law: human “means relating to or concerning people”(Collins). Fully agree on right to live as a human right.

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    Mute TheoWolfe
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    Sep 11th 2017, 1:48 PM

    @The Dunes Of Inchy:

    Maybe not, but is such an oversight justification for the mass killing of human life?

    U.N. Declaration of the Rights of the Child (1959).

    Preamble reads: Whereas the child, by reason of his physical and mental immaturity, needs special safeguards and care, including appropriate legal protection, before as well as after birth.

    So it could be argued that the unborn is protected under the UN Charter, if that document is even worth the paper it is written on.

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    Mute TheoWolfe
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    Sep 11th 2017, 1:54 PM

    @TheoWolfe:

    UN Declaration of Human Rights…not Charter.

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    Mute The Dunes Of Inchy
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    Sep 11th 2017, 5:05 PM

    @TheoWolfe: You’d want to read that charter again lad .”All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights” In other words,bodily autonomy Poor pet

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    Mute The Dunes Of Inchy
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    Sep 11th 2017, 5:07 PM

    oops..and that is Article 1 on the UN Declaration of Human Rights :)

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    Mute TheoWolfe
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    Sep 11th 2017, 6:50 PM

    @The Dunes Of Inchy:

    Because you missed it first time Rosie.

    N. Declaration of the Rights of the Child (1959).
    Preamble reads: Whereas the child, by reason of his physical and mental immaturity, needs special safeguards and care, including appropriate legal protection, before as well as after birth.

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    Mute The Dunes Of Inchy
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    Sep 11th 2017, 7:20 PM

    @TheoWolfe: Article 1 clearly states that every ‘human being’ is entitled to their bodily autonomy :) And that also brings me back to what the HUMAN RIGHTS commissioner said ; “The thing is, international human rights standards do not protect the life of unborn children. They protect women.” Ooh,that must hurt you Theodore,who is the “protector” of all embryos …

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    Mute Paul Byrne
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    Sep 11th 2017, 6:37 AM

    SKY should do Abortions, because if they did, it would be on demand

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    Mute The Dunes Of Inchy
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    Sep 11th 2017, 7:03 AM

    @Paul Byrne: Did you think up of that one all by yourself ? So cute if you did.

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    Mute Paul Byrne
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    Sep 11th 2017, 7:07 AM

    @The Dunes Of Inchy: yeah and i own it, im going to be sticking it on T-shirys and selling it to Pro-lifers

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    Mute The Dunes Of Inchy
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    Sep 11th 2017, 7:11 AM

    @Paul Byrne: I’ll have my own T-Shirt which will have this slogan on it ;” “Pro-Life” people want to keep the 13th “

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    Mute Paul Byrne
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    Sep 11th 2017, 7:41 AM

    @Paul Byrne: My mistake it was early morning
    My T-shirts will have on them
    SKY should show Abortions because if they did Abortion would Not be On Demand
    Going on sale soon

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    Mute DaisyChainsaw
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    Sep 11th 2017, 7:53 AM

    @Paul Byrne: That’s rather niche of you! Over 90% are women taking pills and bleeding for a while so it might not hit your kink.

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    Mute Dazz
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    Sep 11th 2017, 12:55 PM

    I’m uncomfortable with many aspects of abortion but I will vote to allow women to make their own decisions.

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    Mute DaisyChainsaw
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    Sep 11th 2017, 1:04 PM

    @Dazz: Cheers. That’s all we want.

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    Mute Emmet Dillane
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    Sep 11th 2017, 10:26 AM

    Have to say the pro life lobby will have been heartened by Leo’s support in his interview with the New York Times at the weekend.

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    Mute Paul Byrne
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    Sep 11th 2017, 10:52 AM

    @Emmet Dillane: i did not know this, leo deserves gratitude for his remarks on this issue and him being a Doctor would know what and what not an Unborn Baby feels inside the Womb

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    Mute Emmet Dillane
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    Sep 11th 2017, 10:55 AM

    @Paul Byrne:
    ‘Outlining his views, he said he does not agree that a “baby in the womb, the fetus, whatever term you want to use, should have no rights at all”. He said the rights should not be equal to those of the mother, in his view, but added he disagrees with those that argue that human rights should only begin after a child is born.
    “I don’t agree with that,” he said’

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    Mute DaisyChainsaw
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    Sep 11th 2017, 1:07 PM

    Posted at 6.05am and 7 hours later there’s minimal comments by abortion article standards. The usual antis are too busy huffing and puffing over Hook getting Cucked to care about the preborn children today!!

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    Mute Theunpopularpopulist
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    Sep 11th 2017, 1:48 PM

    @DaisyChainsaw: you have some weird fascination with him. I’m pro choice but I think there has been a complete overreaction by liberal pro censorship leftists like yourself.

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    Mute DaisyChainsaw
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    Sep 11th 2017, 2:17 PM

    @Theunpopularpopulist: I don’t want him censored. I would like to see him have the courage of his convictions rather than fold like a cheap suit to save his job. But he’s too much of a coward for that. He neutered himself with his embarrassing climbdown.

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    Mute sean o'dhubhghaill
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    Sep 11th 2017, 6:42 AM

    I HATE THAT WORD…….SCOPING!!

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    Mute Garreth Byrne
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    Sep 11th 2017, 6:00 PM

    @sean o’dhubhghaill: The verb ‘scoping out’ an abortion referendum presents semantic problems I’ll agree. Most of us understand the noun ‘scope’ as something pertaining to range and ability. The doctor’s stethoscope enables a doctor like Leo to hear a heartbeat. The telescope enables some wary politicians to see approaching distant voter-asteroids. Other words like stroboscope, stereoscope, kinetoscope – I’d guess – enhance our auditory, colour and visual range of detection. And gastroscope seems like something for poking inside the digestive system to see what is going on there – I wouldn’t be tempted to visualise or nasalize that. When it comes to an eventual Dail and Seanad debate on the 8th Amendment many backbenchers will resort to intriguing verboscopic devices, in the chamber and in their constituency clinics.

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