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'We're getting it in the neck': Lack of sub teachers at 'crisis point' as parents complain about schooling standards

Fianna Fáil education spokesperson Thomas Byrne has claimed poor training and insufficient pay was behind the drop in the supply.

CHILDREN IN PRIMARY education are suffering from a decline in the quality of their education due to a lack of substitute teachers, it has been claimed.

Principals have reported that a drop in the supply of substitute teachers across the country has left them needing to hire unqualified or retired staff to cover for teachers on maternity leave or in training.

Speaking on LMFM today, the head of Mary Mother of Hope Senior School in Castaheany in Dublin, Enda McGorman revealed how he has been unable to fill the positions vacated by three of his staff who went on maternity leave this year.

“I have made phone calls to principals who might have a sub in Galway, in Mayo to see if they might be willing to come to Dublin,” he said.

“I’ve spoken to teachers and offered them accommodation … that’s the lengths to which we’re going. Potential teachers are interviewing us.”

He added that principals were now “getting it in the neck” from the parents of children who were “really unhappy” about the lack of consistency in their education.

Fianna Fáil education spokesperson Thomas Byrne – who says the situation is at “crisis point” – claimed that poor training and insufficient pay was behind the drop in the supply of substitute teachers.

“Finding cover for mid-year breaks is proving exceptionally difficult for teachers in both primary and post-primary schools,” he said.

“This is not new: principals have been highlighting this issue for a number of years, yet the Department are consistently getting it wrong.”

He added that the Department of Education was “in disarray” when it comes to substitute teachers needed “get the basics right”, including to register them for a new PAYE system.

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    Mute michael
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    Jan 28th 2019, 11:35 PM

    There’s no shortage of teachers. There’s a shortage of teachers willing to wait around for subbing work when they can leave the country and get full time work abroad. Why would anyone train for 4 to 6 years to sit around and not know when the next pay check is coming? Treated like 2nd class workers for years and now the chickens are coming home to roost

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    Mute Milk The Drones
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    Jan 28th 2019, 11:15 PM

    Nurses, teachers, armed forces are all neglected. The cost of living is out of control for many. FG ignoring it all while Leo brags in Davos that the country is loaded. Yet none of the above will have benefited much, if at all, by the time the next recession hits.

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    Mute Toby Fish
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    Jan 28th 2019, 11:34 PM

    @Milk The Drones: and the private sector?

    29
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    Mute Milk The Drones
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    Jan 28th 2019, 11:39 PM

    @Toby Fish:
    I suppose we do all have the new introduction of additional carbon emissions taxes to look forward to later this year coupled with the new revised increase in property taxes. Never a dull moment Toby.

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    Mute Louis Jacob
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    Jan 28th 2019, 11:43 PM

    @Milk The Drones: It’s a world wide problem. In the states, coast guard employees were going to food banks after one month without pay. 40% of adults there couldn’t handle a 400 dollar emergency. And most people on here think that the yellow vests are just thugs…

    34
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    Mute Margate
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    Jan 28th 2019, 11:21 PM

    Surprise, surprise..its coming down the line for some time now and the system is near chaos. DES too busy with farcical ” initiatives” many of which are of little benefit to students or school. The ‘ basics’ are being ignored. Long established, experienced, fine teachers getting out ( with v little, if any pensions, but are just sick of it); others trying to get secondment to work on these great ” initiatives’ ; others- younger- moving on/away and may never return to teaching. Layers of bureaucracy crippling the whole system. Everyone losing out, esp children.

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    Mute Shelly Enright
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    Jan 28th 2019, 11:28 PM

    Stop allowing teachers to go on long paid sabbaticals , stop paying pensions to ex teachers who are now Td’s and ministers , the money saved will help pay the Actual working teachers more money

    132
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    Mute Margate
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    Jan 28th 2019, 11:39 PM

    @Shelly Enright: could you clarify precisely what you mean by ” long paid sabbaticals”??? I stand corrected, but perhaps you mean ‘ secondment’??

    73
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    Mute Edward Ucator
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    Jan 28th 2019, 11:42 PM

    @Shelly Enright: It’s mainly young teachers who go on career break. Either head off to Oz or Dubai and enjoy a few well paid years so they can save for a decent home. Some go to Oz and never return and give up their permanency. If career breaks were ended they would just go straight out of college and they same numbers would be lost. As for mothers that take career breaks to raise a family, most do so because it’s not worth working with 3/4 kids needing childcare, pickups from school etc. A colleague worked out that after childcare for four and fuel she was working fulltime for less than €80 per week. It makes financial sense to take a career break. And plenty of those who are refused on would give up their jobs and the problem would still be there only with a lot of resentment.

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    Mute Shelly Enright
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    Jan 29th 2019, 7:59 AM

    @Margate:
    noun
    noun: sabbatical; plural noun: sabbaticals
    1.
    a period of paid leave granted to a university teacher or other worker for study or travel, traditionally one year for every seven years worked.
    “she’s away on sabbatical”

    I personally know of several teachers who have had extended paid leave and gone abroad to teach and been paid in both countries , come back and take up their old job .

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    Mute Shelly Enright
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    Jan 29th 2019, 7:59 AM

    @Margate:
    noun
    noun: sabbatical; plural noun: sabbaticals
    1.
    a period of paid leave granted to a university teacher or other worker for study or travel, traditionally one year for every seven years worked.
    “she’s away on sabbatical”

    I personally know of several teachers who have had extended paid leave and gone abroad to teach and been paid in both countries , come back and take up their old job . Hi

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    Mute Shelly Enright
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    Jan 29th 2019, 8:02 AM

    @Edward Ucator: a mother taking time out to raise a family is one thing , lots of mothers have to give up work because it’s not worth the wages at the end , but some teachers , (, I know first hand !!!!) have been paid for up to 2 yrs off then go back to teaching, and leave again within 3-4 month because maternity leave had started again

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    Mute Margate
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    Jan 29th 2019, 9:16 AM

    @Shelly Enright: Factually , legally and utterly incorrect- if it is the criteria you say; maybe check your Facts…exactly!

    29
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    Mute Seán C
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    Jan 29th 2019, 11:00 AM

    @Shelly Enright: there is no paid leave in teaching. Sick leave and maternity leave yes. No paid sabbatical in teaching. You’re lying or misinformed. I highly suspect it’s the former though.

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    Mute Edward Ucator
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    Jan 29th 2019, 5:12 PM

    @Shelly Enright: Shelly you’re telling lies to reinforce an opinion. Can you please back it up with facts?

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    Mute Ciadhra May
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    Jan 29th 2019, 8:39 PM

    @Shelly Enright: completely incorrect but don’t let that stop you

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    Mute Benja
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    Jan 29th 2019, 11:26 PM

    @Shelly Enright: sabbaticals are granted to university lecturers. Primary and Secondary teachers do not have that option. They have the option of an unpaid career break however.
    Regarding maternity leave, teachers can take a maximum of 26 weeks paid leave so if they extend that leave for whatever reason, it is unpaid.
    They are the facts, your information is completely incorrect.

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    Mute Charles Coughlan
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    Jan 29th 2019, 1:00 AM

    Poor training, unlikely, teachers are swamped with the likes of Haddington Road and Croke Park hours, a useless punishment dished out to teachers and despised by all, teachers can’t even use these hours for contact time with students, like the nurses and the army all they are looking for is the reinstatement of working conditions, meanwhile we listen to Government spin from TD’s whose basic salary is €94,535 a year, at least 65 Deputies are now on a 6 figure salary, in 2017 that applied to 38.

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    Mute Rory Quinn
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    Jan 29th 2019, 12:13 AM

    The problem with teaching is that due to our system it is impossible for younger teachers to get permanent jobs hence they are unable to settle down buy houses etc because their jobs are only temporary and this leads to a brain drain and the best go abroad for good contract work on higher remuneration. As for temporary positions in the Dublin area teachers cannot live with our tax rates paying Dublin rents out of after tax salaries. As I have advocated with critical jobs such as nurses and young doctors we need to give them special tax credits to will keep them, I would be suggesting a minimum special tax credit for critical young professionals of €6000 pa.

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    Mute Orla Smith
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    Jan 29th 2019, 12:00 AM

    Teachers; rounded up at gunpoint, sent on a HDip to Pats or Maynooth, and condemned to a life sentence. Teachers; ignore the fact that people in other professions also don’t like their jobs, but feel the need to tell you, blow by blow, how victimised they are, how difficult their job is, and how much they hate it. Teachers; if it is that terrible, leave tomorrow (you won’t). Teachers; paid a 13 month salary, for an 8 month year. Teachers; always the victims, ALWAYS, the, victims.

    76
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    Mute Margate
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    Jan 29th 2019, 12:30 AM

    @Orla Smith: OMG! What a rant, without having a Clue. You are SO out of touch. For your information, the ‘ HDip’ and ‘Pats’ – as you call it- haven’t existed for many years now! But never mind, you are the Expert!

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    Mute Quentin Moriarty
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    Jan 29th 2019, 7:20 AM

    @Orla Smith: in a pajamas ,bottle of whiskey in one hand ,smoke in the other falling around the room with one slipper .

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    Mute Fergus Robson
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    Jan 29th 2019, 8:38 AM

    @Orla Smith: I’ve often thought you were fairly sound on here but that diatribe is both vindictive and badly wide of the mark. Cop yourself on and get a clue before going off on one in future yeah. See poster above, the hdip hasn’t existed for years and St. Pat’s is now part of DCU. You don’t even know what you’re ranting about

    33
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    Mute Ciadhra May
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    Jan 29th 2019, 8:42 PM

    @Orla Smith: 13 month salary… Did you actually attend school?

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    Mute B Ó Raghallaigh
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    Jan 29th 2019, 8:47 AM

    Worth pointing out that since the new PAYE system came into effect, substitute and maternity teachers have been denied tax credits and are on 40% tax. This is due to the department’s failure to implement measures to prepare for the new system, leaving these already lower paid teachers unable to pay rent, mortgages etc

    28
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    Mute Seeking Truth
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    Jan 29th 2019, 7:35 AM

    My son in 3rd year reports he has had 2-3 free classes, sometimes each day, on a regular basis. How will students get through the curriculum with this pattern of teacher absences? This has been going on since 1st year and is quite troubling.

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    Mute Margate
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    Jan 29th 2019, 9:30 AM

    @Seeking Truth: Not Teacher absences at all! Teachers now at SO many gigs with other classes- games, matches, wellbeing gigs, MH events, TY stuff, trips with Other classes of all kinds- thats the Issue. So other teachers have to try and cover for them.
    ANSWER: Cut out a Lot of this.Is SO much of it really so valuable? Maybe? But other things suffer. I do know most of my son’s teachers always make any lost time up, fair play. Many of them just told me at recent P/T that they are under a lot if pressure with all this and have no choice as told do do stuff. Seems all a tad crazy…

    12
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    Mute George Weener
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    Jan 28th 2019, 11:13 PM

    Well if there is a shortage of teachers here we should advertise aboard for teachers to come to ireland and teach, if us irish are unwilling to train to be teathers this is the only answer to fill the gaps

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    Mute Tricia Lowry
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    Jan 28th 2019, 11:21 PM

    @George Weener: and why would foreign teachers come here for a two tier pay system that they will be at the bottom of and the cost of living and accommodation.

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    Mute George Weener
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    Jan 28th 2019, 11:27 PM

    @Tricia Lowry: if you where from an African country and were given the chance to teach in Ireland id say you would jump at it. Most teathers earn around 35 thousand a year and if you live outside of Dublin you could manage on it.

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    Mute Edward Ucator
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    Jan 28th 2019, 11:33 PM

    @George Weener: George the Irish Teaching Council alone would put anyone coming here off never mind the rent, poor working conditions, high pupil teacher ratio, low hours etc. In every other EU country they accept that you’re qualified teacher in a subject based on your teaching qualification i.e. you trained and qualified in Maths so you can teach Maths. In Ireland however that doesn’t matter. I know of UK trained teachers that got on a PGCE in a particular subject, qualified and taught for years and when they return to Ireland they find out the Irish Teaching Council don’t recognise them as they base it on degree only, not teaching qualification. Worse still, plenty of teachers with PhDs in e.g. Physics but some under qualified paper pusher in Maynooth says they didn’t cover enough modules during their degree 15 years ago and are two hours short.

    It then baffles you when they introduce a new Junior Cycle curriculum, provide 3 days training and you’re now qualified for this “new” subject. Why bother doing a degree if the training for the subject is 3 days and you’re now adequately qualified? Some only got two days training for a full 3 year JC course. That’s your education system right there.

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    Mute Mary Josephine
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    Jan 29th 2019, 7:24 AM

    @George Weener: but the article clearly says it’s Dublin experiencing the most shortage. So even someone from Africa on 35k couldn’t afford to work and live there.

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    Mute fiona campbell
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    Jan 29th 2019, 5:26 PM

    Provide actual binding contracts for primary and post primary teachers and you will have no problem hanging on to teachers. As a teacher myself it is not just a question of pay but a question of stability. I have met countless teachers, in a position similar to mine, continuously looking for work for over ten years, going from school to school while the goalposts keep shifting. Redeployment favours permanent teachers only. Secondment favours permanent teachers only. I am working in the education system 10 years and I have had only three years with my summers paid. I have taken on extra work in other sectors in order to survive financially. It is not sustainable to treat teachers like this. Provide contracts. It is demoralising and has diminished the profession.

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    Mute Susan Doherty
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    Jan 29th 2019, 4:35 PM

    Sub situation is beyond farcical at this stage. We simply cannot get them. In our school, we have been struggling for past few years. Our students are a dream from a discipline and academic attainment point of view but still there are no applicants. Sad state of affairs and it is stressing students out when they cannot be taught. Something needs to be done and done now.

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