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Oireachtas.ie

National Children's Hospital Project 'highly unlikely’ to come in under €2 billion

The Secretary General of the HSE is unable to confirm that the cost will be below €2 billion

THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS Committee is meeting today to discuss the National Children’s Hospital Development Board’s 2017 financial statements, with some TDs questioning whether the project’s final cost will exceed €2 billion. 

Labour TD Alan Kelly today asked Secretary General of the Department of Health, Jim Breslin, whether he was “confident that this project will definitely conclude and be opened” for less than €2 billion, and whether he could “guarantee it”.

Earlier this month, the Health Committee hearing on the cost overruns at the hospital was told that the build will cost €1.433 billion – €450 million more than the figure of €983 million approved by government in 2017.

The figure has since gone up to €1.7 billion. 

“I don’t think it’s going to come in under €2 billion,” said Kelly, adding that it would “highly unlikely” because of associated costs.

No confirmation

Breslin was unable to confirm that the project would come in under €2 billion. He said that an internal projected costs study is underway, concurrently with the report being carried out by Pricewaterhouse Coopers (PwC) into what the final cost will be.

Kelly has questioned why the government has “now commissioned their own internal study”, and questioned whether it “should just let PwC get on with the job”.

It’s new info to people that, not alone do we have a project that’s €1,433,000,000. Now, there’s a process in place to see where the figure will land, at same time as €450,000 investigation to find out how we got here in the first place.

“It’s mind-boggling that we couldn’t guarantee that it was coming in under €983 million… four months later, we can’t guarantee to taxpayers that it will come under €2 billion,” Kelly said. 

The information “was known” that there would be additional costs, Breslin confirmed at the meeting.

Kelly has said that it’s “extremely worrying” that Breslin, a top HSE official, “was unable to confirm (…) that projected costs for the National Children’s Hospital won’t exceed €2 billion.”

Breslin said: 

The area that I’m most interested in is how the €983m went to the €1.433 billion. In my estimation, a key explanatory factor is the gap between the preliminary design and the final design.”

At the committee meeting, chairperson and Fianna Fáil TD Seán Fleming asked for a breakdown of the €1.7 billion figure attached to the project currently. After the break, he then read out the figures which he had received

This included €4.5 million for decanting, €5.8 million for Aspergillus prevention, €550 million for the main contractor, BAM, €87.9 million for equipment, €66 million for running the hospital’s board, and its legal fees. This contributes to the €1.433 billion. 

Outside of that, €18 million will be required for a Children’s Innovation and Research Centre, and €97 million for IT services, which is not funded by the Exchequer, but by planned-for philanthropic contributions.  

 

 

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Jun 28th 2016, 8:58 PM

    Stop this planet, I want to get off.

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    Mute Joanna
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:40 PM

    ????????

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    Mute James Darcy
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:59 PM

    Don’t mind Bobby. He can’t even spell. The poor chap.

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    Mute whereisspace
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:47 PM

    It takes a whole different level of stupid for a human to blow themselves up. It is embarrassing to think that these humans evolved like the rest of us. Embarrassing.

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    Mute Seán Domhnall O'Sullivan
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:57 PM

    Islam did not have a reformation…

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    Mute HOTBank
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:04 PM

    It is only 1437 in Islam, the Catholic reformation came in 1517. So we have another 80 years to wait.

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    Mute Seán Domhnall O'Sullivan
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:33 PM

    oh goody, Germany and more may well be Islamic republics by the time that comes around so.

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    Mute AGuyWithARant
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:37 PM

    According to the scriptures of Islam reformation is strictly forbidden. You could always try but people have before and its failed time and time again. I doubt islam can be reformed.

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    Mute Seán Domhnall O'Sullivan
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:39 PM

    28 are dead the story hadnt been updated.

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    Mute Ziggy722
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:41 PM

    Must have been white Christians with guns. Wait, it was Muslims?

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:45 PM

    50 now…RT.

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    Mute cholly appleseed
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    Jun 29th 2016, 8:53 AM

    Turkey has taken in 1.8 million Islamic refugees. It was only a matter of time. Isis were going to slip through the net

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    Mute Dognut Dognut
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:40 PM

    It doesn’t end does it. Every f’in day there is something.

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    Mute Just Some Guy
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:43 PM

    Turkey should not be allowed to join the EU

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    Mute Tony Canning
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:49 PM

    They have satisfied one out of 35 conditions. And they are getting worse under Erdogan. If you believe they are on the way into the EU then you’ve sucked up UKIP propaganda

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    Mute AGuyWithARant
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:58 PM

    Tony the EU was never a fan of doing things they way they are supposed to be done anyway.

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Jun 29th 2016, 6:04 AM

    Each and every current member has a veto on a new country joining. Now does anyone with half a brain think that either Cyprus or Greece would vote to allow Turkey in.

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    Mute AGuyWithARant
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:23 PM

    This is the latest terrorist attack on a (semi) European nation, something has to be done about the rise of islamofascism in Turkey. They were pretty secular until Erdoghan.

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    Mute Tony Canning
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:44 PM

    Erdogan has created an atmosphere of fear and censorship and then cries about the EU leading Turkey on. Thankfully they are a long way off meeting the 35 “chapters” and are moving in the wrong direction if they want to sort that.

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    Mute James Joseph Superior Power
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:57 PM

    82 to 97 % of all fatalities of ISIS and Al Qaeda are muslims. Ya all muslims are terrorists. Anough with the propaganda.

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    Mute Rob O'Brien
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:10 PM

    Some facts from the Pew institute for ye there James.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg

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    Mute Rob O'Brien
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:33 PM

    You are saying the Pew institute is wrong in it’s information?
    You believe that article you just linked proves anything other than that Islam can’t even provide piece between Muslims?

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    Mute Ziggy722
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:47 PM

    The unelected eurocrats in Brussels and Germany will consider this as a bonus and fast forward the visa-free access for the Turks, and fast-forward the negotiations with Ankara to include Turkey within the EU.

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    Mute John Smith
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:49 PM

    So Ben Shapiro, an Orthodox Jew’s view on Islam is not biased in any way.

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    Mute Ziggy722
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:51 PM

    Has anyone blamed Trump yet?

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    Mute Tony Canning
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:54 PM

    @ziggy visa free travel for Turkey hasn’t been achieved. Europe has not granted it and have told Turkey they aren’t near achieving it.

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    Mute Rob O'Brien
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:58 PM

    John he takes his statistics from the Pew institute who are well respected in the gathering of unbiased information. If you prefer you can look Ayaan Hirsi Ali or Sarah Haider they are ex Muslims who are very revealing as to the beliefs of the average Muslim.

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    Mute James Joseph Superior Power
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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:12 PM

    Jesus talk about victim blaming Rob . So now what you’re telling us is because a small minority who pick and choose parts of the holy book to justify the slaughter other Muslims it is the fault of those who are being slaughter

    Have you read the old Testament lately. While by no means on the same scale there are a number of active terrorists group justifying what they do based on the old Testament.

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    Mute James Joseph Superior Power
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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:17 PM

    Take a look at this website and come back and tell me how christianity is the religion of peace. The simple facts are that there is no such thing as a organised religion of peace. They are all as bad as each other and all have used their “holy books” to justify their crimes at some point in history.

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    Mute Rob O'Brien
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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:23 PM

    Goodnight James.

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    Mute Malachi
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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:24 PM

    James, right now, Christianity is doing nowhere near as much harm as Islam in the world. The Westboro Baptist Church and sporadic abortion clinic bombings do not equate to a global jihad against the infidel, large scale organised suicide bombings with mass casualties and Islamic theocracies across much of the middle east.

    Please, can we at least confront the reality that all religions are harmful, but that some are doing A LOT more damage to the world (in the current era), than others.

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    Mute James Joseph Superior Power
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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:51 PM

    Maliachi What religion is George Bush. Are you seriously going to tell me that West are not predominantly Christian countries and have not murdered tens of thousands of Muslim people in the last few decades.

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:52 PM

    Christians,Yazidi,Shia,Kurds are NOT muslims..

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    Mute James Joseph Superior Power
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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:53 PM
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    Mute James Joseph Superior Power
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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:54 PM

    Sorry I didn’t post the website earlier. This is the website I was referring to.

    http://www.evilbible.com/

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    Mute Marie Gunbay
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    Jun 29th 2016, 12:00 AM

    @ James you are only wasting your time and energy because there is a mind set of people in the western world once they hear the word Muslim they automatically think terrorist. Whether its from ignorance or fear because of the recent suicide bombings in Europe who knows. We have just been in contact with family and friends who live in Istanbul. Yes they are Muslim and no they are not terrorists. They are sick of being tarred with the same brush as ISIS when in fact as far as they are concerned these evil madmen have nothing to do with religion and need to be wiped off the face of the earth.

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    Mute James Joseph Superior Power
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    Jun 29th 2016, 12:13 AM

    That is so true Marie. And the sad thing is they don’t even realize they are playing right into the hands of ISIS. The more that the West turns against all Muslims. The less places that ordinary everyday Muslims will have to go to survive. Eventually for their very own survival they may have to succumb to the ISIS ideology. That ideology being live as we tell you or die. Kill who we tell you to kill or we will kill you. How blind the righties can be.

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    Mute James Joseph Superior Power
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    Jun 29th 2016, 12:18 AM

    The US a christian Country that never Killed anyone.
    IRAN l980 Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.
    LIBYA l981 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers.
    EL SALVADOR l981-92 Command operation, troops Advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash.
    NICARAGUA l981-90 Command operation, naval CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution.
    LEBANON l982-84 Naval, bombing, troops Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim positions. 241 Marines killed when Shi’a rebel bombs barracks.
    GRENADA l983-84 Troops, bombing Invasion four years after revolution.
    HONDURAS l983-89 Troops Maneuvers help build bases near borders.
    IRAN l984 Jets Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf.
    LIBYA l986 Bombing, naval Air strikes to topple Qaddafi gov’t.
    BOLIVIA 1986 Troops Army assists raids on cocaine region.
    IRAN l987-88 Naval, bombing US intervenes on side of Iraq in war, defending reflagged tankers and shooting down civilian jet.
    LIBYA 1989 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down.
    VIRGIN ISLANDS 1989 Troops St. Croix Black unrest after storm.
    PHILIPPINES 1989 Jets Air cover provided for government against coup.
    PANAMA 1989 (-?) Troops, bombing Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed.
    LIBERIA 1990 Troops Foreigners evacuated during civil war.
    SAUDI ARABIA 1990-91 Troops, jets Iraq countered after invading Kuwait. 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel.
    IRAQ 1990-91 Bombing, troops, naval Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; large-scale destruction of Iraqi military.
    KUWAIT 1991 Naval, bombing, troops Kuwait royal family returned to throne.
    IRAQ 1991-2003 Bombing, naval No-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south; constant air strikes and naval-enforced economic sanctions
    LOS ANGELES 1992 Troops Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising.
    SOMALIA 1992-94 Troops, naval, bombing U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.
    YUGOSLAVIA 1992-94 Naval NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.
    BOSNIA 1993-? Jets, bombing No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs.
    HAITI 1994 Troops, naval Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.
    ZAIRE (CONGO) 1996-97 Troops Troops at Rwandan Hutu refugee camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.
    LIBERIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
    ALBANIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
    SUDAN 1998 Missiles Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be “terrorist” nerve gas plant.
    AFGHANISTAN 1998 Missiles Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.
    IRAQ 1998 Bombing, Missiles Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.
    YUGOSLAVIA 1999 Bombing, Missiles Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. NATO occupation of Kosovo.
    YEMEN 2000 Naval USS Cole, docked in Aden, bombed.
    MACEDONIA 2001 Troops NATO forces deployed to move and disarm Albanian rebels.
    UNITED STATES 2001 Jets, naval Reaction to hijacker attacks on New York, DC
    AFGHANISTAN 2001-? Troops, bombing, missiles Massive U.S. mobilization to overthrow Taliban, hunt Al Qaeda fighters, install Karzai regime, and battle Taliban insurgency. More than 30,000 U.S. troops and numerous private security contractors carry our occupation.
    YEMEN 2002 Missiles Predator drone missile attack on Al Qaeda, including a US citizen.
    PHILIPPINES 2002-? Troops, naval Training mission for Philippine military fighting Abu Sayyaf rebels evolves into combat missions in Sulu Archipelago, west of Mindanao.
    COLOMBIA 2003-? Troops US special forces sent to rebel zone to back up Colombian military protecting oil pipeline.
    IRAQ 2003-11 Troops, naval, bombing, missiles Saddam regime toppled in Baghdad. More than 250,000 U.S. personnel participate in invasion. US and UK forces occupy country and battle Sunni and Shi’ite insurgencies. More than 160,000 troops and numerous private contractors carry out occupation and build large permanent bases.
    LIBERIA 2003 Troops Brief involvement in peacekeeping force as rebels drove out leader.
    HAITI 2004-05 Troops, naval Marines & Army land after right-wing rebels oust elected President Aristide, who was advised to leave by Washington.
    PAKISTAN 2005-? Missiles, bombing, covert operation CIA missile and air strikes and Special Forces raids on alleged Al Qaeda and Taliban refuge villages kill multiple civilians. Drone attacks also on Pakistani Mehsud network.
    SOMALIA 2006-? Missiles, naval, troops, command operation Special Forces advise Ethiopian invasion that topples Islamist government; AC-130 strikes, Cruise missile attacks and helicopter raids against Islamist rebels; naval blockade against “pirates” and insurgents.
    SYRIA 2008 Troops Special Forces in helicopter raid 5 miles from Iraq kill 8 Syrian civilians
    YEMEN 2009-? Missiles, command operation Cruise missile attack on Al Qaeda kills 49 civilians; Yemeni military assaults on rebels
    LIBYA 2011-? Bombing, missiles, troops, command operation NATO coordinates air strikes and missile attacks against Qaddafi government during uprising by rebel army. Periodic Special Forces raids against Islamist insurgents.
    IRAQ 2014-? Bombing, missiles, troops, command operation
    Air strikes and Special Forces intervene against Islamic State insurgents; training Iraqi and Kurdish troops.

    SYRIA 2014-? Bombing, missiles, troops, command operation
    Air strikes and Special Forces intervene against Islamic State insurgents; training other Syrian insurgents.

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    Mute Foghorn Leghorn
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    Jun 29th 2016, 12:19 AM

    My my, I have observed and deemed James wally of the week.
    So many flaws in all your points I’m still not sure if your a troll or not. A fine troll mind but a troll all the same

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    Mute Malachi
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    Jun 29th 2016, 12:28 AM

    James, ffs, the US didn’t kill anyone in the name of Jesus they did it for the sake of political power/influence and oil mostly.

    That’s not the same as Islamic terror. Islamic terror takes its inspiration from religious texts to go and kill infidel. Did you hear US Marines shouting “JESUS IS GREAT” before killing Taliban? I hardly think so.

    Please, enough with the false equivalence.

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    Mute bingo
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    Jun 29th 2016, 12:32 AM

    Marie, I am glad your friends are OK and no not all Muslims are terrorists BUT it’s in the books and it’s taught in mosques and it certainly has a lot to do with the religion.

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jun 29th 2016, 12:36 AM

    5 Christians murdered by Sunni muslim homicide bombers yesterday in the village of Qaa,Lebanon.

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    Jun 29th 2016, 12:41 AM
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    Mute James Joseph Superior Power
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    Jun 29th 2016, 12:54 AM

    Explain this Malachi. If it has noting to do with christianity
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/bush-god-told-me-to-invade-iraq-6262644.html

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    Jun 29th 2016, 1:01 AM
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    Jun 29th 2016, 1:02 AM
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    Jun 29th 2016, 1:17 AM

    @ Foghorn “So many flaws in all your points” LOL
    My point is that thousands of Muslims are being slaughtered by Isis. If there is a flaw in that point could somebody please provide evidence that proves me wrong?
    The ideology that the very people who are being murdered day in day out by isis are the ones to blame for their own slaughter is ludicrous.
    The irony is that the right wing conservatives here constantly accuse those on the left of jumping on the populous bandwagon. Now that the propaganda machine paints Islam as a religion of terror they have no issue with jumping on the populous bandwagon themselves while they ignore the historical horrendous war crimes of Christianity.
    Nobody is denying that some Muslims use certain parts of Islamic texts to justify their violence. But to deny that all other religions do and have done although may be currently not to the same extent as Islam is dishonest and typical of the right-wing Christians.

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    Jun 29th 2016, 1:38 AM

    You got there before me, Malachi..

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    Mute Malachi
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    Jun 29th 2016, 1:56 AM

    James, Bush saying “God told me to do it” when invading Saddam’s Iraq isn’t the same as ISIS directly quoting scripture when they throw gays off buildings or execute blasphemers and apostates.

    For God’s sake (lol) can we please just get off the starting block here and recognise that Islamism is unique in the global terror it is inflicting on muslims and non-muslims around the world.

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    Mute bingo
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    Jun 29th 2016, 1:58 AM

    James, Christian violence on any great scale is SO long ago it’s ridiculous that you always bring it up. I would point out that going back in history, while there was Christian violence, there was Muslim violence happening too. There is no flaw in saying “thousands of Muslims are being slaughtered by Isis” – this statement is true – sadly. They had no reformation and they need to have one. I’m not convinced it can or will happen.

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    Jun 29th 2016, 2:01 AM

    ISIS will soon be history….Sunni Islam will continue to foster and promote terrorism.

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    Jun 29th 2016, 2:06 AM

    Malachi, I agree, it’s totally different…even if Bush did have a personal religious motive (which I doubt) the soldiers who fought were not motivated by religion and the war was not fought because of religion.

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    Jun 29th 2016, 7:48 AM

    James, Why are you so vehement in your defence of these religious nutters? Can you not see that these tools would cut your head off in a heartbeat? Bottom line is that we have a problem with religious fruitcakes at the moment, primarily muslim nutters that want to enforce their version of this despicable cult on everyone through terror and fear. If you can’t see that then there’s not much anyone can do for you.

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    Jun 29th 2016, 9:39 AM

    So, the gist I’m getting from this thread is that western violence, death and destruction visited on the Muslim world, but not only, all for economic domination, is ok, because even though Christians are doing it, they’re not doing it because it of their book. Islamic terrorist attacks mostly on their own and occasionally against the west, because these fanatical nutters say so ‘themselves’ that they are doing it in the name of their religion, means that Islam is a greater threat to peace. It proves to me that people choose selectively what they want to believe and reality doesn’t matter.
    I mean, it’s not like ‘divide and conquer’ has never been used before, has it?

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    Jun 29th 2016, 11:28 AM

    Copy and paste huh

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    Mute James Joseph Superior Power
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    Jun 29th 2016, 7:21 PM

    @Malachi
    “James, Bush saying “God told me to do it” when invading Saddam’s Iraq isn’t the same as ISIS directly quoting scripture when they throw gays off buildings or execute blasphemers and apostates.”

    LOL You should read that statement back to yourself. How is killing people mostly Innocent civilians which bush also did because Because God told him to do it different from killing innocent civilians because a different God told them to do it. Your logic is unbelievably stupid.

    “recognise that Islamism is unique in the global terror it is inflicting on muslims and non-muslims around the world.”

    Sorry but that is not true. EXTREMIST islamism is CURRENTLY unique in the global terror it is inflicting on muslims and non-muslims around the world. Just like Christians did in the past.

    @bingo
    “James, Christian violence on any great scale is SO long ago it’s ridiculous”

    What is ridiculous is believing that if far right wing American evangelists wouldn’t leave his history if they got half a chance.

    ” I would point out that going back in history, while there was Christian violence, there was Muslim violence happening too”
    At no point did I deny that. However if you want to go down that road there is a hell of a strong argument that from a historical point of view Christianity has been far more violent then is Islam.

    @Whereisspace How dare you accused me of defending these religious nutters. I wholeheartedly condemn the actions of Isis Al Qaeda and so on.
    My point is that not all Muslims are affiliated with these terrorists groups as the majority on here would try and have us believe. In fact they are so opposed to them that they are being murdered in their thousands.
    Are you people so blind as you cannot see the indisputable fact that thousands upon thousands of Muslims have lost their lives in attempts to cross the Mediterranean probably mostly women and children as they tend to be physically weaker.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 8:56 PM

    Is there any way we can blame this on Trump? Come on people… THINK!!

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    Mute meL-In033
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:02 PM

    No it will be blamed on the native Turks.

    “They didn’t do enough to let them integrate”

    or

    “They were just deluded psychos, nothing to do with religion!”

    or

    “We need to be more welcoming to hardcore Islamist’s, allow them there own communities and neighborhoods where the police cannot enter”

    or

    ” It’s just a response to the meddling of white western nations in the middle east! We brought it upon ourselves”

    Pick any at random.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:03 PM
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:19 PM

    Good work… Now, if we can some how just mix a bit of Isreal/ Jewish conspiracy into the mix, we might be able to get a hashtag trending…

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    Mute AGuyWithARant
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:21 PM

    Good man padraig, if we look hard enough there will ALWAYS be a trump connection.

    He has german ancestry, I heard he caused WWII. You didn’t hear it from me though.

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    Mute Odhran MacMurchadha
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:28 PM

    ‘Is there any way we can blame this on Trump? Come on people… THINK!!’
    Don’t be absurd.
    This has nothing to do with Trump.
    It’s further fallout from the Brexit.

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    Mute John Burke
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:50 PM

    Ahhh “Emma” you’re so predictable ,and you try to make fun out of people when they accuse you of being a Zionist troll LOL ,Israel has broken 65 UN resolutions with no consequences.
    Iraq broke TWO, got invaded, bombed and destroyed.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:56 PM

    @odhran

    Trump caused brexit because his ancestors were german, germany controls the EU, his ancestors left Germany, which was symbolically shown as the UK, an inhabitant of the fourth German reich, left. It is prophecy.

    Trump also tried to expose Obama as a non-US citizen, failed and then obama was like don’t leave the EU to get back at trump who wanted them to leave and then the people didnt like being told what to do so they voted leave and thats trumps fault.

    Always. A. Trump. Connection

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:15 PM

    That should tell you more about the U.N John.
    So you believe that the Saddam Regime that stretched from the 70′s to the noughties, started a war with Iran that caused millions to die, Gassed his own towns, invaded Kuwait, threatened Saudi, drained the Swamps of the euphrates causing millions to die or be displaced, bombed Isreal etc etc etc etc, only had 2 U.N resolutions on his scorecard Vs Israelis 65?
    Keep apologising for the Islamics John, you are doing them far more harm then good!

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:24 PM
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:25 PM

    Tel Aviv-Jaffa Mayor Ron Huldai shocked many Israelis Thursday morning when he cited Israel’s occupation as one factor that leads Palestinians to turn to terrorism. Speaking on Army Radio about Wednesday’s deadly shooting attack in Tel Aviv and reported celebrations of it in the West Bank and Gaza, Huldai argued that Israelis should focus instead on the fact that Israel is “perhaps the only country in the world holding another nation under occupation without civil rights.”

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:29 PM

    It’s all Brexits fault.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:44 PM

    I wonder, when you are trying to hunt down some Palestinian propaganda if you ever come across the depraved and sick stuff that Hezbollah and Hamas advocate and regularly carry out? Do you just gloss over it and pretend its not there? Or do you hoop and holler and scream “Alans snackbar” when you come across an Isreali family stabbed to death etc etc etc by your beloved Islamic Facists?

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    Jun 28th 2016, 8:48 PM

    ……sigh……

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    Mute Rob O'Brien
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:05 PM

    The journal censoring another comment, don’t like us pointing out patterns in certain peaceful religion’s behavior it seems.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:20 PM

    The usual behavior. Clamp down on the truth.

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    Mute Neil Mcdonough
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    Jun 29th 2016, 9:44 AM

    You’re right, the nuclear powered, armed to the teeth western military machine only promotes peace. No pattern at all in us being involved in conflict everywhere there is oil? None? Course it’s the Muslims fault …

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    Mute Kate Flaherty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 8:59 PM

    Thankfully it was outside the terminal, less casualties hopefully, news coming in saying 10 dead.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:18 PM

    Are you joking? The security check at the main doors has just pushed a crowd buildup back to the terminal entrance as everyone entering has to have their luggage and themselves scanned. The saving grace was that it happened at almost 11pm local time when the airport is quieter, maybe security was less too because there are random car stops and searches on the drive into the airport

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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:25 PM

    @John, the only saving grace was it happened outside the international departure gates, casualties would have been much higher had it happened inside the gates where the volume of people was much higher!

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:03 PM

    @Kate I assume you’ve never flown through Istanbul, because the queue to get anti the airport are bigger than the queues for gate security.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:32 PM

    @Chris, I have flown into this and other Turkish airports, the security on all 3 I’ve been to has been directly inside the door, while there are queues, the volume of people after this point is greater and a greater area is exposed…..

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    Jun 29th 2016, 12:50 AM

    Kate it happened inside the door of the arrivals terminal the departures is upstairs. There is a security check inside the doors before you can proceed to the gates in the arrivals halls.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:46 PM

    Looking more like Daesh!, PKK are more inclined to attack security sevices, this is looking like an attack on the international community, American citizens were only advised yesterday against traveling to Turkey…..

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:35 PM

    *travelling!

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    Jun 28th 2016, 8:58 PM

    News reports say 2 suicide bombers and 1 gunman.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:10 PM

    Was there on Friday. Close call I suppose

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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:01 PM

    10 reported dead already.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 8:59 PM

    Is is. Anyone told them they’re a typo?

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    Mute Devlin
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:57 PM

    Will the facebook brigade be putting up turkey flags will eiffel tower be lit up in turkey colors oh probably not hypocrites facebook brigade are so easily brainwashed played and manipulated

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    Jun 29th 2016, 2:04 AM

    Most. Peaceful. Religion. Ever.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:05 PM

    Yeah but rob your attitude is pretty consistent. Anyone with a brain can see that Islamist attacks are based on the view of extremists of their belief. Your posts suggest that all Muslims want everyone else dead. Turns out there are over a billion who don’t just like most christians or Jews don’t interpret large chunks of the old testament as a reason to kill others.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:13 PM

    Name one region in the world where Muslims don’t have violent conflict with others, or even themselves.
    Name one policy or action of ISIS that is contradicted by the Quran?

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:21 PM

    Tony…. buddists / Hindus / Sikhism / Bahai faith / jews / christians are not running around world wide carry out suicide attacks ……

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:23 PM

    @rob, you are not willing to debate this around reality. Your suggestion is that every Muslim wants everyone else dead. With muslims making up a quarter of the world’s population I have no idea how it’s not just a world of muslims by now. It’s obvious to anyone with eyes that you are simply anti muslim given that you won’t even address these points.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:25 PM

    No i said the majority are true to their ideology and their ideology is mental,cultural and spiritual cancer and if you follow the Quran as it dictates then it is ISIS hwo are truly Muslim and supposed moderates are not Islamic.

    The myth of the extremist minority:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:37 PM

    Rob, you don’t reply referring to what has been said. You seem to be just waiting for something to reply to. It’s obvious that you have a notion that you need to try to convince people how to think. You’ve not really addressed anything and only continued to present yourself as someone who just has a stick up your a$$. Not sure what you hope anyone will get from your comments except a kind of propaganda of intolerance. Certainly not facts when you try to present all muslims as terrorists or at least not make any attempt to dispel that suggestion when challenged. I mean FGM?? FGM is not a Muslim specific issue and when you suggest it is you’re not addressing the issue, you’re letting others off the hook for a disgusting practice.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:45 PM

    What points have I not addressed Tony? I never claimed each and every Muslim is a terrorist but I did claim with stats to back me up that the majority in almost every population have leanings that are not compatible with western or even human ideals of freedom and decency.
    This isn’t because Muslims are genetically evil it is because the ideology they are raised under and live by promotes a totalitarian, violently regressive mind frame and outlook. This is why Islam is responsible for far and away the lion’s share of terrorist atrocities world wide. This is why Islamic majority countries where secularism isn’t strictly enforced have barbaric dark aged practices and attitudes and commit gross human rights offenses as a rule.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:50 PM

    @rob you’ve consistently over many stories made unqualified comments that suggest that all muslims are haters of any others. It’s simply not true. In this very story you have suggested that all muslims are uncivilised.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:51 PM

    And can you back up the assertion that FGM is not an Islamic problem Tony?

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:54 PM

    Neevr said “all Muslims” Tony I said “Muslims” because in every Islamic community are contained Muslims who are uncivilized and are incompatible with civilized society.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:03 PM

    Rob, you listed it so really the burden of proof that it’s an exclusively muslim issue is on you. I won’t leave it at that though…. https://www.hrw.org/news/2010/06/16/qa-female-genital-mutilation

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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:09 PM

    I didn’t call it an exclusively Islamic problem but it is heavily connected and all those regions where it is common are Muslim areas bar only a few sub-Saharan areas. It is hugely common in every Muslim area and even now in Western countries thanks to the rise in Islamic communities.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:12 PM

    And if you had qualified your comments earlier I wouldn’t have questioned them but you didn’t and this reply seems like nothing less than backtracking

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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:17 PM

    Tony, FGM is definitely an Islamic problem. It may not be directly related to Islam as a religion (although it sort of is), however for whatever reason Islamic areas are disproportionately affected by the practice. Look up the statistics. They are quite clear.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:19 PM

    It’s not backtracking, I’m having to clarify to the smallest detail because you are so literal minded you can’t see half my point.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:28 PM

    @malachi, the stats available on FGM cover Africa and little more. The global muslim population obviously foes beyond that. If you want to be simplistic the yes you could say it’s a Muslim problem but as with all statistics the devil is in the detail and Africa’s demographics aren’t representative.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:30 PM

    @rob, bull. I’m pretty sure you were out defending brexit supporters on the same point. That not all are old uneducated racists. Pretty sure you did.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:40 PM

    Good man Tony.

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    Mute Donal Carey
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    Jun 29th 2016, 8:41 AM

    Only yesterday on this site when a FF politician questioned how many Muslims were in this Country he was nearly fired for using the word . This Country better wake up before its to late their are Mosques flying up all over the Country these people have no interest in anything Irish their only interest is in themselves and Islam .

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jun 29th 2016, 12:32 AM

    Yes…SUNNI muslims killing SHIA muslims,and yazidis,Christians,Kurds etc….wise up.

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    Jun 29th 2016, 2:54 AM

    I wonder will the kurds get the blame?

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    Mute Rebecca Jane Hegarty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:48 PM

    How in Europes 3rd largest airport does someone get past security with a Kalashnikov and a body strapped with explosives???

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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:49 PM

    Turkey is in Europe???

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:05 PM

    Ataturk Airport is definitely in Europe.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:18 PM

    Don’t you remember Tony?
    When the Islamic jihad finally conquered European Byzantium it renamed it Istanbul.
    That religion of peace again! wiping out cultures and invading the place!
    Incorrigible.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:25 PM

    Hahahhahahahah yeah I’m old enough to remember that. The crusades too….

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    Mute James Joseph Superior Power
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:25 PM

    The British Empire comes to mind. Tell me was that Muslims that practically wiped out native Americans.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:29 PM

    Right Tony between 622A.D. and 750A.D. how many Islamic jihadi invasions were there compared to the entire history of European crusades?
    James by 750 A.D. the Muslim caliphates controlled a larger land mass than the British Empire at it’s height.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:32 PM

    http://m.dw.com/en/erdogan-holds-mass-celebration-on-ottoman-conquest-anniversary/a-19292255 The Turks remember it quite well. Imagine a Western country celebrating the conquest of a country. The outrage would be off the chart.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:32 PM

    The last few decades of the west in particular the US and Britain bombing the sh*t out of the middle east.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:35 PM

    Still failing to address any of my points James.
    Emotive childish fantasies don’t cut it in the real world snowflake.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:38 PM

    James disease caused 95% of the deaths of native americans.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:40 PM

    Yes that disease came in the form of a bullet

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:42 PM

    Turkey used to be as European as it got before the fall of the Byzantium Empire and The fall of the city if Constantinople (Modern day Istanbul) it was a Christian Orthodox country from what I recall, Greek or Eastern I can’t remember I’ll have to brush up on my history

    Thats why the first crusade was started, to drive invading islamic forced out of Europe. They got all the way to Vienna y’know. They Occupied Spain for 700 years but were driven out by (I think King Ferdinand) during the Reconquista

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:42 PM

    Rob Yes Rob they did because the British Empire invaded this countries in the first place. Facepalm

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:43 PM

    Just like disease killed so many Aboriginals? Diseases brought from Europe?

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:44 PM

    Yep, what happened centuries ago is more pertinent than thinks like Sykes picot…

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:49 PM

    @ Rob “Emotive childish fantasies don’t cut it in the real world snowflake”

    You are dead right Rob. And that is exactly what you are doing with your jumping on the bandwagon that all muslims are bad histeria.
    There’s no denying the fact that it is muslims themselves are victims of ISIS, Al Qaeda.
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/muslims-are-the-victims-of-between-82-and-97-of-terrorism-related-fatalities-us-government/5516565

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:51 PM

    No james it actually came in the form of small pox and the common cold. Do you know how much bullets it would take to kill over 20-40+ million people? A hell of a lot of bullets james.

    This is literally one of the most simple parts of history, one of the first things you are thought in history class in secondary school.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:54 PM

    Oh sorry Tony that people has disease and happened to be from Europe. I’ll go tell the Tajiks to feel guilty for bringing the Black death (bubonic plague) to Europe from central asian just like European brought disease to the Americas. Those damn genocidal central asians and their disease they have immunity to and we didn’t… Such evil people they should really learn not to be carriers of disease.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:56 PM

    I haven’t denied those statistics James, once again you are proving the point that Islam even creates murderous strife among Muslims!

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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:56 PM

    Did someone mention Armenian Genocide? Sush!

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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:00 PM

    Beachmaster, the people of northern Ireland get to experience it every year on July 12th. And we’re told to be tolerant and just suck it up. Don’t you just love respecting traditions that celebrate slaughter, rape and attempted genocide?

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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:15 PM

    Emma, Armenian whatnow? I’m sorry, I just went temporarily deaf. Weird.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:21 PM

    And what was it that the white man do to stop the spread of disease? Or did they ensure that they spread. You are right it would have saved them a small fortune on bullets.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:41 PM

    Actuallu james the American government tried to vaccinate natives but the natives didn’t trust them

    By the time the European settlers got as far inland as Alabama almost every native was dead in modern day Colorado.

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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:42 PM

    I love how you are so open about wanti g to blame it on “whitey”. James where did you adopt your views on life they are extremely puzzling, nonsensical and conspiratorial

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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:59 PM

    “nonsensical and conspiratorial” lol
    What do you call the denial of ISIS murdering muslims ?

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    Jun 29th 2016, 12:19 AM

    @ Rebecca thats just it Rebecca they didnt get past security….the entered through the door and were spotted straight away….by security who confronted them. I just saw a video of brave policeman shooting one of the suicide bombers who fell and his gun slid across the floor, the policeman approached him and saw the vest and turned and started to run away from him. If these animals had of got into the main arrivals hall there would have been a more fatalities.

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    Jun 29th 2016, 12:22 AM

    James please do show me where i said ISIS dont kill muslims. Nobody has ever said that do you think we all just think eastern syria is some christian bastion that has been overun with ISIS members?

    Muslims have been killing each other on mass since 700ad its not news to anybody.

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    Jun 29th 2016, 12:24 AM

    “the natives didn’t trust them”
    That was hardly anything to do with the thousands that slaughtered before you realised that they didn’t have enough bullets to finish the job?

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    Jun 29th 2016, 12:31 AM

    What part of raving on about how Muslims are not victims of Isis but rather the West, is. Is not denying that it is Muslims are by far in the majority of victims.

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    Mute James Joseph Superior Power
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    Jun 29th 2016, 1:26 AM

    “Muslims have been killing each other on mass since 700ad its not news to anybody.”
    Christians have been slaughtering people for thousands of years. No news to anybody. Oh wait
    Historical killings for Christianity
    The Crusades
    The Inquisition
    The Witch-hunting
    The post-medieval period
    Democide in the Americas, Africa and Australia
    Slavery in the Americas and Africa
    Beatification and canonisation of flawed figures

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    Mute Malachi
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    Jun 29th 2016, 2:00 AM

    Lol, anything recent to cite James? I notice how the most recent entry is quite violent indeed, imagine the Church making saints out of “flawed” figures! The horror!

    Meanwhile, ISIS are waging global Jihad against the Kuffar, executing sorcerers/gays/apostates/blasphemers/etc. in public, taking young Kurdish girls as sex slaves, attempting a genocide, etc.

    Obviously beatification of undeserving people is on par with ISIS’ massacres, how can anyone deny it?!

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    Mute James Joseph Superior Power
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    Jun 29th 2016, 2:38 AM

    Really start the best you can do. The fact that the most recent entry is not violent in itself justifies the rest of the violence that has occurred. I am not denying that currently religious terrorists are mainly made up of those who use Islamic texts to justify their violence. The point I am making is that all religions do and have done use religious text to justify violence. Who is to say that Christianity won’t do this again in the future. If American evangelists have their way the would.

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    Mute AGuyWithARant
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    Jun 29th 2016, 7:57 AM

    Muhammad was quite the flawed character james he raped a 9 year old and bragged about killing jews pagans and Christians

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    Mute Neil Mcdonough
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    Jun 29th 2016, 10:03 AM

    I see your logic now Malachi. ‘It doesn’t matter what I did before because I’m not doing it now’ basically.
    Except the west still conducts aggressive wars, blows up civilians, but because we’re not holding bibles, that’s different, or to you Malachi it seems, not even happening. There are none so blind …

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    Mute Neil Mcdonough
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    Jun 29th 2016, 10:08 AM

    A guy, read up on the history of the popes before you start throwing stones. I think you have to concentrate on the splinter in your brothers eye because the beam in your own is to much to handle. Your kids will be doing the fighting, not you. That’s what’s so shocking about the armchair warriors here.

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    Mute Malachi
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    Jun 29th 2016, 3:03 PM

    Neil, where did I say that the crimes of other religions are absolved because they aren’t as violent as Islam is now?

    The inquisition was an affront to humanity, and the Catholic Church is a disgusting organisation. We should never forget the crimes against humanity carried out by zealots of all different stripes.

    However when we get to the point of relative harm caused in the modern era, there is no point in being coy about the fact that Islam is causing the most destruction and death across the globe. The reason I say this is because in this thread and elsewhere there is a false equivalence made between the actions of abortion clinic bombers and global jihad.

    It’s alright. You hate the West. That’s fine. The problem is that when we are talking about *religions*, the West’s actions are irrelevant because they weren’t carried out in the name of a God. Bring your political baggage about the Iraq war somewhere else where it is relevant, next time.

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    Mute James Joseph Superior Power
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    Jun 29th 2016, 7:39 PM

    God was quite the flawed character AGuyWithARant. He destroyed entire cities he called for the execution of any person who believed in any god other than himself. He called for gay people to be stoned to death He called for disobedient children to be handed over to village leaders so they could kill them. Or at least so those who have translated the original text into modern Bible would have us believe. Take a look at this link all the evidence is there.

    http://www.evilbible.com/

    I’m amazed at those who single out Islam as an evil religion and completely ignore the fact that all religions teach evil. The facts are that most Muslims do not follow the evil teachings of the Koran the same as most Christians do not follow the evil teachings within the Bible.
    Do you people not realise that if most Muslims were to follow the evil teachings of the Koran and as you claim that they do. The rest of us would all be dead along time ago.

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    Mute James Joseph Superior Power
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    Jun 29th 2016, 7:54 PM

    @Malachi
    “The inquisition was an affront to humanity, and the Catholic Church is a disgusting organisation. We should never forget the crimes against humanity carried out by zealots of all different stripes”

    Really earlier on you said to me that they were so long ago that they were irrelevant.

    “the West’s actions are irrelevant because they weren’t carried out in the name of a God”

    Sorry but you are wrong there. Why do you keep denying that “God told me to do it “was the exact reason that George Bush gave for dropping over a thousand bums on Baghdad on the very first night of that war. And then he had the neck to turn around and say no civilians were killed.

    Over one million Iraqis died as a result of conflict. As opposed to total of 4,491 U.S. service members were killed.

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    Mute June Rose-Sommer
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    Jun 29th 2016, 7:57 AM

    My hear goes out to the famalies of those people who lost their lives in Turkey this morning. What a tragedy!! RIP

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    Mute Dognut Dognut
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    Jun 29th 2016, 2:13 AM

    Ah here we go. Diametrically opposite and opposed contextually different situations are being compared. No wonder we get p.xy nowhere. I really want kids but I’m just not sure it would be responsible. This bull’shit everyday.

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    Mute Yiu Fai Lau
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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:58 PM

    I wish I could go and joined them. To infiltrate them, and break them from the inside. At my initiation I would turn the weapon and wipe out the whole division. Even though I will probably get killed, I would also likely to have save many lives, and save many hours of undercover work, from plots for massacre to be abandoned.

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    Mute Patrick J O'CONNOR
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    Jun 29th 2016, 1:33 AM

    Hen hao!

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jun 29th 2016, 2:04 AM

    Yiu….yiu real?

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    Mute Mary Murphy
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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:27 PM

    Very sad news. Innocent frontline staff trying to look after others. Love Istanbul and yet the moronic fools can still isolate and put fear into life as we know it. May he’ll be too hot for those idiots

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    Mute James Darcy
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:02 PM

    Leave the xenophobes to their lies!.. It’s fine they are restricted to social media and the journal comments section.

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    Mute meL-In033
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:29 PM

    If you are talking about the rise of the right wing, your wrong.

    Millions of people around the world openly supporting right wing parties throughout Europe, increasing support every month, taking to the street and surgin in the polls. A result of the forced, incompatible Islamic immigration of Europe led by Merkel and the EU parliament, destroying whole communities irreversibly through a naive, liberal utopia where barbaric religious nutjobs are forced into western democracies they don’t belong.

    Keep holding onto your debate stifling labels though, “xenophobe and racist”, people don’t give a damn what limp wristed apologist lefties like you think anymore, all you have is name calling, the right have facts and statistics to back up their views. All you have in your arsenal is “b-b-but you’ll hurt their feelings guys, don’t talk about mass rapes, terrorism, murder, grooming gangs or drug dealers, these people are all just like us!”.

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    Mute Rob O'Brien
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:36 PM

    Well said.

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    Mute Bobby wilson
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:44 PM

    James… slaughtering of the Gay cummuinity in Orlando was it homophobia or Islamic terrorist attack…!!

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    Mute Rob O'Brien
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:46 PM

    Islamic homophobia promoted in the Quran and Hadiths.

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    Mute conri
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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:19 PM

    @meL, absolutely correct, again, it’s not about colour or creed, it about an incompatible culture being forced upon us.

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    Mute Niamh Ui Cheallaigh
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    Jun 29th 2016, 3:09 PM

    Awful stuff when will it stop rip to the poor victims

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