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TWO WEEKS AFTER the priest at Lyra McKee’s funeral openly challenged politicians on the Stormont stalemate, resulting in a loud applause erupting around the Northern Ireland political leaders in the church, talks are to resume again.
On Tuesday, a fresh round of talks aimed at reviving the power-sharing government at Stormont will take place. But will they succeed? That’s the big question.
It’s been over two years since the Northern Ireland institutions collapsed. With no functioning government, the North is effectively being run by unelected civil servants who are operating with limited resources.
Since the tragic death of Lyra, critics have called on politicians to get back around the table and sort it all out.
In the last two years, there have been several rounds of talks to get the Northern Ireland Assembly back up and running, but they have all failed.
Irish language and same-sex marriage
Sinn Féin and the DUP have failed to find a compromise on a number of outstanding issues including Irish language rights and the legalisation of same-sex marriage.
The closest both parties got to a deal was in February 2018. Sinn Féin claimed the deal was all but done, but the party leader Mary Lou McDonald claims that DUP leader Arlene Foster pulled the plug on the agreement because she could not get it past her own members.
With Foster making clear that the party’s position on marriage equality has not changed, it is difficult to see where compromise will be found on that issue alone.
When talks resume on Tuesday, it is understood that the agreement which was almost agreed to back in 2018 will be the starting point for the negotiations.
The deal had a roadmap to how to handle the marriage equality issue, and was drafted to ensure that the DUP’s fingerprints wouldn’t be on it.
It basically set out that Westminster would legislate for it – which would take the issue out of the hands of Sinn Féin and the DUP.
At the time of the negotiations last year, there was to be a question tabled in Westminster about whether the Tories would be given a free vote, and it set out a process that would have allowed Labour to put forward a piece of legislation that would have extended marriage equality to the North.
Sinn Féin believed it was the only way to get marriage equality over the line because a deal with the DUP on the issue was never going to be on the cards.
That roadmap would have gone through, according to Sinn Féin sources, who state that the DUP acquiesced to that solution as it meant their fingerprints weren’t on it.
The deal on the table also contained what has been described by some Sinn Féiners as an “ugly path” to achieving an Irish Language Act.
The specific stumbling block in Northern Ireland around the Irish language surrounds the introduction of an Irish language Act (Acht na Gaeilge) which would give Irish equal status with English.
The legislation would allow for the use of Irish in courts, in the Assembly and for use by state bodies including the police. It would also see the appointment of an Irish language commissioner, the establishment of designated Gaelteacht areas in the North, the right for education through Irish and bilingual signage on public buildings and road signage.
Sinn Féin sees it as a litmus test for equality rights of the nationalist community being recognised.
But that deal never came to pass, and we are where we are.
Since then, with the DUP supporting a Tory government in Westminster, all the focus has been on Brexit.
But the death of Lyra changed all that. With the spontaneous standing ovation at St Anne’s Cathedral in Belfast last month, pressure was ratcheted up on the politicians to do something, or at least be seen to do something.
That said, the soundings for success have not been good.
Sinn Féin said this week that the timing for the talks is not ideal, citing Brexit and upcoming elections as significant challenges to finding a resolution.
Chances of success
McDonald said her party will enter into the negotiations “with every ounce of energy that we can” but in the same breath said she had to be “realistic”.
“I think it’s a challenging time, obviously there are elections North and South the issue of Brexit is ever with us so there is no doubt that there is awareness across politics that these are challenging times but at the same time we cannot simply stand still so there is a need for action,” said McDonald, adding that Sinn Féin will give the talks their full attention.
“I want it to work, I want these talks to work but if they don’t well the governments having convened the talks need to have a Plan B and they need to be clear that if the DUP if politicians persist in failing to answer these questions as the co-guarantors of the agreements they have to intervene.”
All this was said in the same week that Foster said that her community cannot be left with nothing. “It can’t be a five-nil situation,” she said.
While critics of the delays are fed up with the point-scoring between the two parties, it has been reported that they have been “bounced” into talks by Taoiseach Leo Varadkar and UK Prime Minister Theresa May.
McDonald has denied this, adding that a parallel process to sorting out the issues will also not work. There have been suggestions that the two parties should get back into Stormont and while in power deal with the issues of marriage equality and the Irish language during separate talks.
But she said her message to both governments is clear.
Calls for a Plan B
The two governments cannot just cross their fingers and hope for the best with these talks. The public does not want another process of endless talks and no resolution. And in the case there is a stalemate yet again, a Plan B will be needed.
What does a Plan B look like? It is one that Sinn Féin will not find easy to swallow, but it is “working the Good Friday Agreement” as one senior party source stated.
It would involve the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference being held (this is a mechanism contained in the Good Friday Agreement) and as co-guarantors of the agreement, the two governments would address the issues the DUP and Sinn Féin cannot find an agreement on – namely the Irish Language Act and marriage equality.
The agreement provides that the Irish government may put forward views and proposals on such issues, and also provides that the conference may consider all-island cross-border co-operation on non-devolved issues.
Responsibility would be escalated to the two governments, and result in Britain having to lift the load with Westminster legislating on the outstanding issues.
Tánaiste Simon Coveney has previously indicated to Northern Ireland Secretary Karen Bradley that “it would be appropriate to convene the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference as part of the work by both Governments, as co-guarantors of the Good Friday Agreement, to chart a way beyond the current impasse”.
And if all else fails? Could there be an independent mediator flown in to be the middleman? George Mitchell, who was influential in the Good Friday Agreement has been a name that has been bandied about in the past.
Sinn Féin hasn’t dismissed the idea and are not against the idea of an independent facilitator but it’s understood that the DUP are not very open to the idea.
If that was to happen it would be a game changer in the Northern Ireland political statement. But as it stands, another round of talks is to begin, the leaders have said they are “hopeful”, but it all comes down to whether the nettles are grasped.
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Should we scrap asking this question twice every year???
@Cathal S Byrne: Should we scrap people making the same comment twice every year???
@Cathal S Byrne: what next the weather? We’d have nothing to talk about.
@Cathal S Byrne: The Journal isn’t written by actual people, but instead a not-very-clever journo-bot. That’s why we get multiple Repeal8th articles, fawning Ibrahim Halawa love-letters and of course the “should pubs open on Good Friday?” or “should clocks go back/forward every year?” polls.
It couldn’t be real people getting paid to write this drivel, it must be some sort of computer program. The only thing is, though, my toaster would be able to write better articles than some of the stuff you see on this site.
@Cathal S Byrne: Tock, Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock Tick.
@Olllie B: But then I’d miss all this banter.
@Olllie B: Then he missed all the moaning.
@Cathal S Byrne: if you click the tags at the end of the comments, it’s a year to the day when they asked it last year. At least we know what to expect on 25th Oct 2018
@Cathal S Byrne: If you want nothing the government does to be questioned, go to North Korea!
@Cathal S Byrne: lets have a poll on it?
“A relic from a bygone era that no longer serves a useful purpose”
- 8th amendment
@Jesus Christ: it’s a time for change
@Jesus Christ: A bit like yourself…
@David Knight: well, I am over 2,000 years old tbf. That’s totally ageist David.
But I have an iPhone.
@Richard Wright: what a great metal band!
Has the journal run out of Ibrahim Halawa articles?
@the phantom: Simon Zebo stories will fill that spot
With brexit might be best time to align our clocks with Spain and France
@Celtic_Horizon: so we’d have 2 time zones in Ireland?
@Cathal S Byrne:
That’d be awesome, I’d get to wear my two watches at the same time without getting funny looks
@Celtic_Horizon: That’s great if you want it to be dark till 10 am in winter!
@Celtic_Horizon: Why shouldn’t they align with us? They were both on GMT until the Panzers rolled into France in 1940.
@Tweety McTweeter: dreams really do come true :)
@Celtic_Horizon: We’re too far west to go to that time zone, it makes no sense. At the minute we are the same as Portugal, they don’t have any issues with being in a different time zone than Spain.
@Rui Firmino: I’d be happy with that if it meant I got a couple hours after work in day light. Sure I’m stuck in office all day
@Celtic_Horizon: Well, I wouldn’t!
@Cathal S Byrne: spain and france are in the same time zone
@Cathal S Byrne: We already have two time zones in Ireland; the anti-choice brigade live in the 19th century
Welcome to March 2017.
http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-clocks-forward-3307277-Mar2017/
@Fay Moynihan:
That is kinda interesting though – at the moment both are showing exactly 72% in favour.
Looks like everyone has very entrenched positions – no change in the last 6 months.
Of the 21% who so far say No what is the reason for keeping it the way it is surely nobody likes going to work in the dark and coming home in the dark.
@TonySuperSaints: I agree. It’s hard enough getting out of bed in winter. But to get out of bed in winter in the pitch dark is worse.
@TonySuperSaints: I voted no, because it’d be counter-productive if only Ireland does it. However, it’d be a yes if the whole of Europe, and ideally North America also, ditch DST together.
@TonySuperSaints: I’d voted no because having two different time zones on the same tiny island would be absolute lunacy ffs.
@TonySuperSaints: Stopping the changeover would only affect one, not both. If we were to keep summer time all year round (which is what is generally suggested), then we would have darker mornings but brighter evenings. If we were to stay on winter time all year round (which I don’t think anyone wants) then you’d have brighter mornings and darker evenings. So voting “no” because you don’t like going to work AND coming home in the dark doesn’t make sense.
@Neil Downing: Precisely. The whole point of DST is that we DONT have darker mornings.
Clearly a lot of people don’t even understand the reasoning behind it – which is scary.
@TonySuperSaints: it makes it brighter in the morning actually, and either way, already at this time of year before the clocks change it’s pitch dark at 7.30 am and almost dark at 6
@TonySuperSaints: you will still have to come home from work in the dark in Irish winter regardless of the change , just sayin
I don’t understand why people wouldn’t want brighter evenings? Safety (driving, walking down an alleyway etc.) is greater when evenings are brighter and we would save millions in energy consumption. Of course it wouldn’t make sense if we were the only country to wind back the clocks, but the benefits of having longer evenings are plenty and in my opinion, hold greater value than “not having to wake up in the dark”.
@Ciara Scannell: Two different time-zones in the same tiny country would be the height of stupidity.
@Ciara Scannell: I think people are confusing what the actual effects of not changing really are , it doesn’t mean we get to live like it’s summer all year around , I would change it for sure but reading some of the comments ya would think we have the ability to prevent our glorious island from having dark winters at all , the effect would be pretty minimal and the utopian speculation about our children going out to play like bright summer evenings in December in Ireland are wide if the mark , the shortest day light of the year dec 21 will still be the shortest day light of the year regardless
@Dave Hammond: so let us keep our evening light and let bretix be in the dark, do we always have to live in the shadow of england!
@Tír Eoghain Gael: wouldn’t be two time zones in the one country, would be two time zones in two different countries
Here we are again…Same question every year
The MEP argued having brighter evenings in winter would lead to better outcomes for road safety, reduce energy consumption by having the lights on less and even encourage children to get out and exercise more.
I’ve got news for Deirdre Clune, the time from next week onwards is the “correct” time so to not change the clocks anymore it would still be exactly the same (i.e dark at 4/5pm at this time of the year)
@Life in no motion: That’s actually not correct. Ireland is actually on Central European Time. We have a special winter time, CET-1, which for some reason we don’t call Daylight Destruction Time. This is Ireland. There are excellent reasons for this.
@Life in no motion:
I can’t see it reducing energy consumption through lighting, it would still be dark when people get home.
@Robert Conneely: Correct, but the difference of darkness at 4pm to 5pm makes a massive difference. We use more electricity in the evening 5 – 7pm than at 5 – 7am. Plus I personally would rather see part of the day in daylight potentially coming home.
Most definitely. leave it as it is ,
It’s a complete waste of time !
BREAKING NEWS…Supervalue has topped the polls again in ireland as the nations favourite supermarket..
Just getting in ahead of the journals next weeks topic
Should we scrap having a poll about putting the clocks back or forward!
@Bill Murphy: If TheJournal had a influence over politicians with ability to change time change NO, otherwise YES.
Is it too early to talk about opening the pubs on good Friday
definitely as i work nights and my 12 hour shift becomes 13 hours!!!!
and im never on shift when its the other way round….. typical!!
Right on cue.
In Iceland you know what time of the year you have by looking out the window – they keep the same time all year round.
If only we could do the same – next week we will have drivers with no lights and suddenly dark evenings when a gradual winter acceptance would be better.
@eastsmer: Two different time-zones in the same tiny country would be lunacy.
@Tír Eoghain Gael: Only if there are still two different jurisdictions
@Tír Eoghain Gael: which country are you talking about – the Republic of Ireland, or Northern Ireland?
@Jumperoo: He probably means you know that Ireland, that is the most westerly of two islands of the northwest coast of Europe if you’re looking for it on a map.
Change the time to whatever works best to give us the maximum amount of daylight always, better all round for everything g from sports to feeling better, to going out and enjoying yourself after work, ect
@Mick Hannigan: Leave well alone ,fiddling with the clock wont give us any more daylight one way or another.
@Jointheclubtoo: Does that mean
A: Stay in GMT,
B: Stay in GMT+1 Summertime
C: Change Clocks twice a year like we do all the time.
@Brendan Mason: Leave the clocks in GMT all year. It will suit the kids as well.
@Brendan Mason: You’re probably right about that, GMT best represents our position on the planet. I happy enough the way they do it now though.
Move it 30 minutes in one direction and hen leave it there.
@OU812: I came to that conclusion about 5 seconds before seeing your comment…..if the entire world did this, we would all be sorted. Nice job.
If we all want to do everything an hour earlier, why don’t we just do everything an hour earlier? Why do we need this pantomime twice a year?
Every year the same question is asked… Every year people respond with the same answer… so clearly it’s a stupid question
If Ireland switched to Beijing time (+8 hours) it might be possible in February for Irish children and their parents to go sledding at midnight after heavy snowfall. German and Scandinavian tourists would flock here to enjoy the novelty.
Only a government could convince you that cutting a piece off the end of length of cloth and sewing it onto the other end, will give you a longer piece of cloth.
Definitely stop putting them forward, but we should keep the putting them back bit.
@David Knight: Will have the same time zone as Hawaii in 10 years time. New York 5 hours ahead of us. Wouldnt make sense.
@Brendan Mason: Oh. I didn’t think of that.
The MEP mentions we would have brighter evenings and better road safety as a result.
However, we are currently UTC+1 so if we scrapped the changes and confined ourselves UTC+0 we wouldn’t have these brighter evenings as she mentions.
Getting dark at 6 would translate to getting dark at 5(For those who don’t want to do the maths)
If we decided to stay UTC+1 we’d be an hour ahead of the UK whilst being further West of it. Bit stupid to be fair.
Pretty simple math. This person is an MEP?
We left it alone one year ( not sure when exactly ) and the children were going to school on the dark so we reverted back again to changing the clock the following year.
@John O’Neill: I checked it out and in 1969 Daylight Saving Time was not observed in Ireland.
@John O’Neill: back then children were walking to school, now most are delivered to the door.
@John O’Neill: Yes that is correct and my mother used to say it was horrible that year. Getting kids out in the dark. Roads icy still as there was no daylight thaw. There were kids trying to get to school buses in rural areas and there were some accidents. Kids are dropped nowadays but there are still plenty of kids trying to get to buses in rural or outer suburban areas so we do need to this k carefully.
@Sean: in their parents 172 D 12345 Volkswagen Toureg SUV.
@Catherine Sims: Yes I remember it going to school in a rural area and it was horrible. Dark freezing and dangerous.
@Sean: most are driven but if the mornings were dark then I am sure that those who normally walk to school would also be driven so you can imaging the extra traffic chaos that would ensue.
Do u want it bright at 3 in the morning in the summer while u are still in bed and dark an hour earlier in the evening? Then keep GMT.
Want it dark in the morning when the kids are going to school in the winter? Then keep BST.
The change makes perfect sense to me, I can never figure out why so many people are against it.
@Count Craicula: it’s still better then changing the clocks. How about moving the clocks 30 minutes and leave them alone.
You could say why doesn’t Australia have Christmas in June instead of December.
Spain is talking about realigning with us (it only changed in 1940 so Franco could collaborate better with his buddy Hitler). Makes sense as we’re in the same longitude range.
If it happened, would we be in the winter or summer time?
Spring forward, fall back. There’s an easy way to remember which way there changes go.
Within a few weeks of the clock change the daylight hours are not long enough and it is dark both in the morning and in the evening. So it makes little difference to change it and I would vote that we stop putting the clock forward and back. I have long argued for all countries in the world to use Universal Standard Time and instead adjust their 9-5 as required. So Japans morning might be 1800 hours and Australias might be 2200 for example.
I don’t think people realise the consequences of not doing it. Do you really want to be going to work or sending kids to school in pitch black darkness for the entire Winter? It was a disaster n Cyprus when they didn’t put the clocks back. Now they’re reverting back to daylight savings again.
second hand information from the journal-They are working overtime this time.
It’s getting late very early these days.
The question is valid but in this know-nothing atmosphere it withers in those who lack imagination. The first thing is the body clock which is tuned to the daily cycle so the immediate abrupt change is not quite like jet lag but the body does have to adjust to a new regime as our bodies respond to daylight and darkness. The abrupt change disguises the annual body clock which responds to the seasons and the general slowing down to winter mode, of course this change is often obscured in contemporary society by all the conveniences that make winter incidental such as artificial light and heat. It does have an adverse effect such as seasonal affective disorder however, judging from the groaning going on in the comments, few come to understand how our bodies are built around the motions of the Earth with all its affects.
Whatever about messing around with the clock twice a year, something needs to be done about the timing of Easter. It is ludicrous that in the 21st Century we still adhere to the decision made by a bunch of blokes around a table in 325CE to base the date of Easter on the phases of the moon.
@David Meredith: Erm…… it’s a religious festival you see so that’s why the religious guys get to call the shots on the timing.
@David Meredith:
Using your logic we should simply get rid of Easter altogether. Why are we still acknowledging a religious festival at all?
@Catherine Sims: They managed to decide when Christmas Day would be. Easter has all the hallmarks of a botched compromise.
@Nick Allen: Precisely
@David Meredith: None of you know your history in general of detail. Easter is determined by both the moon phase (full) and the Equinox (Northern orbital point) so the calendar correction to bring dates back in line with the Equinox and Solstice point by denominational Christianity opened up a research topic that is largely ignored even though it is brilliant.
After 4 circuits of the Earth the Sun as determined by the 4 year calendar system, you and your location doesn’t arrive back in the exact same orbital point at the end of February 29th from a starting point on March 1st four years earlier. The difference is small but adds up over the years and it was this uncorrected difference that amounted to 10 days that the Church dealt with in the late 16th century . It is a language like software language but seemingly few have the talent to speak or write it even though I find it easy and straightforward despite its intricate nature.
Keep it as it is. It was a stupid decision, makes us more depressed, those dark evenings… and then there’s getting up on chairs to change all my battery clocks on the walls, a pain in the ass. Leo please, Tick Tock leave our Clock.
Realistically, the only good part of changing the clocks is that we have daylight for children going to and from School! If they were not changed then it would be still dark at 9am(at least in December and January), the busiest time of the day, with children and the workforce on the road! School time is crazy enough at most schools without adding darkness to the mix!
An m e p has she nothing better to talk about
It’s crazy. That extra hour of daylight is fading my curtains. Get rid of it.
Can there be 4 options….. yes no I don’t know and most importantly, I don’t care!
Boris will do it in the UK as soon as he gets freedom.
We can follow then like we always do.
Every year we have this conversation, most people think the clocks should be left alone, and every year the opinion of the majority is ignored, so I ask is what is the point in having this discussion.
What the hell has it got to do with the EU? Can Ireland do anything without asking the Fatherland for permission? Pathetic.
If we change our clocks then the UK would have to do the same only leading to confusion … ok go ahead call me a old fashioned fool !
@karl: Dont mind Britain, They will be out of Europe in 2 years time. It might be no harm if we create a precedent on leaving the clocks fixed in either GMT OR GMT+1and stick to it. Europe might follow suit and get rid of this unnecessary madness twice a year.
Won’t somebody think of the badgers!!
Depressing and miserable
enough in Ireland in winter without making it darker sooner
Scrap Clocks .
We are too “PC” to change. It is like upping the speed limit. If someone gets injured they will blame the person who changed the rule.
Ah fCk off. Politicians and their exciting lives. Go and petition something meaningful. Useless Cnts the lot of them. Nothing like a dark evening , bowl of codel and a lighting fire. Feed kids less they wont be fat. Slow the Fck down and you wont crash. Light a candle if you dont like using lecky. Or get night vision goggles. Simples.
I work nights so makes no difference to me!
In reality too many industries have close operating ties to the UK. We will only ever change if or when they do so its out of our hands
How abortion t we settle this once and for all by putting the clocks back by 30 minutes once and for all and never worrying about it again?
*about*
Damn you spell-check!
Twice a year they ask the same bloody question. Just do it or don’t…..
Leave it alone for the crack
Same stupid question again this year.
Why does it take twice as long for the clocks to change back after dec 21……surely early feb is time enough to bring the hour forward again…..
Let’s meet in the middle and move it half an hour back and leave it at that … :)
It gets late much earlier when the clock goes back. So leave time alone.
Leave them the way they are now, it would leavekm it safer for every one
Instead of an hour forward and an hour back, just change it half an hour and leave it at that. Who said it had to be a full hour?
@Míleata Watch Co: It is a type of art to enjoy where timekeeping meets the cyclical motions of the Earth that create human devised timekeeping so reading some of the comments can be dismaying. Imagine people going out of their way to complain about the intricate engineering that goes into a computer or under the hood of a car and people will have an idea how this topic is treated even though it calls into attention the body’s response to the motions of our home planet. People shouldn’t behave like rednecks because it is an issue thing to do with this great human heritage with its roots in remote antiquity but unfortunately they do.
have your say