We need your help now
Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.
You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.
If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.
Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
By continuing, you are indicating that you accept our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.
ONE OF THE major issues of contention between various candidates in the European elections has been the question of defence.
Particularly, claims and counterclaims over the potential for the EU to have its own army.
This is not surprising given that Irish neutrality has been one of the main strands of debate in issues relating to Ireland and the EU for many years.
Sinn Féin has been among the most vocal parties on this issue, with MEPs Lynn Boylan and Liadh Ní Riada both speaking about moves towards a common military force.
What are the facts?
Much of the impetus for the new debate about European defence arises from Ireland’s membership of Pesco – the EU’s permanent structured cooperation arrangement that 25 states have signed up to.
Pesco allows member states increase greater co-operation of their defence forces.
Those in favour say it will allow for more efficiency and better equipment as defence forces purchase and develop resources together.
Those opposed point to the inclusion in the European command centre and joint training as a step towards a common army. They also point to an increase in defence spending.
To underpin Pesco and other joint-security initiatives, the European Parliament recently passed a €13 billion European Defence Fund for 2021-2027.
Security analyst Tom Clonan says that Pesco “makes sense” for many reasons but added that having an ongoing conversation about the Irish Defence Forces is healthy.
This, he says, is because the role of the Irish Defence Forces has changed hugely in the last 20 years, something which has gone almost “unnoticed” by many Irish people.
He points to Irish troops in Afghanistan as part of the Nato-led Partnership for Peace programme and the EU mission to Chad which was led by Ireland.
On Pesco, he says she sees the benefits of EU militaries working together.
In America, you’ve one armoured personnel carrier programme, for the Army, Marines etc. One weapons system, one tank system whereas in Europe you have 17 different armoured personnel carrier programmes. That’s research and manufacturing, duplicating, replivateing, and it just costs billions. So the European Defence Agency and Pesco were designed to cut out all of that duplication of spending
“So they can say a country like Sweden can concentrate on small arms, Britain can concentrate on tanks, France on aircraft and in that way we get a better spend.”
Pesco is not mandatory and EU member states Denmark and Malta have not signed up, neither, unsurprisingly, did the UK.
Pesco itself does not constitute an army and French President Emmanuel Macron has been vocal in his desire for what he has termed “a true European army”.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel is also supportive of the plan and defence ministers from 10 European countries met recently to discuss the potential for a joint force outside of Nato.
Ireland was not among the countries represented.
Lisbon Treaty
However, any move towards this European force being an actual ‘EU army’ would likely be blocked given that EU member states effectively have a veto over such matters.
The Lisbon Treaty says that the EU will work towards a common defence policy but any common defence would require unanimous approval.
“The common security and defence policy shall include the progressive framing of a common Union defence policy. This will lead to a common defence, when the European Council, acting unanimously, so decides,” the treaty states.
Should this occur, the treaty says that this be adopted in member states “in accordance with their respective constitutional requirements”.
In Ireland’s case, the passing of second Lisbon Treaty referendum effectively blocked the country from signing up to such a “common defence”.
Article 29.9 of the Irish Constitution says:
The State shall not adopt a decision taken by the European Council to establish a common defence pursuant to Article 42 of the Treaty on European Union where that common defence would include the State.
‘If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck…’
While the Constitution says Ireland could not sign up to a common EU army and that any such army would therefore likely be blocked, opponents claim Pesco is doing this by stealth.
Writing in TheJournal.ie last year, Luke ‘Ming’ Flanagan MEP said it was a “redefining of what the European Union was set up to be” while Ní Riada has described it as “the foundation stone of a single EU Army”.
Lynn Boylan described it as a case of “if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck it then it is a duck.”
Fine Gael’s Deirdre Clune rejected this, however, stating last week that any claims about the potential for an EU army are false because of treaty provisions.
“There is no EU army, there will be no EU army. It is in the Lisbon Treaty which we voted for in this country, a protocol specifically recognises Ireland’s neutrality and also says there will be no EU army,” she told RTÉ’s The Week in Politics.
But even if Ireland may be blocked from joining an EU army, a debate still remains about whether there are moves towards it – and who is pushing that way.
This is the debate has been ongoing between Sinn Féin, Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil in recent weeks.
For Clonan, he says it is inarguable that the French and German leaders are pushing in this direction and that whatever happens we should ensure we stay out.
Right now the world is becoming more destabilised. We have Trump in the White House, we have Putin in Moscow who’s quite dangerous and mischievous in the Baltic states. We have Britain crashing out of the EU, we have Angela Merkel and Macron sharing their desire to have a European army.
“I think right now is the time for Ireland to take a really, really deep breath and not be joining anything. This is not the right time to be joining things.”
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
Ffg and the late labour party assured us that under no circumstances would Ireland be involved in an EU army so you can be 100% assured it will happen.
@tommytukamomo: only if we vote for it.
@Dave O’Keeffe: PESCO went through without us voting for it. Rushed through the dail
@John Paul: PESCO is just an agreement between European Countries to co-operate with each other in the Defence field. In fact it is little diffrent to a similar agreement we have with the UN. If anything our involment in UN operations is by far more dangerous than anything PESCO would be involved in. But I have never heard anyone complain about our UN involvement.
@John Paul: the PESCO projects Ireland are involved in are an EU training centre which still would require a UN mandate for each country Ireland were to go to, and all the other aspects of the triple lock. The second project is in maritime security, and as an island nation it makes sense for Ireland to be involved in that
Ah but guys the conspiracy is far more popular so it must be true.
@Mick.: Of course it is . We have to commit to putting 3 billion towards it while our own defence forces and their families are on the breadline
@John Paul: May I ask where you got the €3 Billion figure from? Because at present our membership of PESCO after 2 years has cost us Nothing outside our own defence spending. In fact by joining PESCO the Irish Government is obliged to up their spending on the “Irish Military”. Something you seem to be complaing about the lack of.
@John Paul: Here is an actual checkable fact. Ireland pays €11 million a year into the UN Budget and gets back €1 million of that as payment for Irish Military personnel in Operational UN roles. This is according to the Secretary General’s Budget report.
Where our membership of PESCO has cost the State €0 thus far. And the Budget for PESCO is €16 Billiion spread across 25 Member States with Germany, France, Italy and Spain paying the bulk of it.
I’m not fully sure but I kind of support a European army. Its impossible to be fully neutral in this world and it might be immoral when alot of terrible stuff is going. The European union seems to be the most positive force in the world today, might be worth defending.
@Shane Barry: The majority of EU states are already in NATO and take their orders from the US. Libya was the richest country in Africa 10 years ago. NATO couldn’t allow that and today it is destroyed with open slave markets. We should not be contributing to weapons development for NATO.
@Cal Mooney: a rather simplistic view of ever there was one. You think Libya was an example of a country that we should aspire to emulate? Saudi is rich. The Emirates are rich. Brunei is rich. Do we look to them as an example of how we want the world to be. Ireland truly fecked itself in the early years of the free state after shaking off the previous regimes oppression. We fought a civil war, we nearly went communist / fascist and we let the catholic church dictate far too much policy. It took a long time but we grew into something we should all be proud of. Libya, Iraq, etc are better off in the long run without Gaddafi, Saddam. The road may be long and painful but sometimes the price of shaking off oppressio. is the freedom to truly feck yourself while you find your way.
@Cal Mooney: the American empire is the cause of wars and military spending. Anyone on here should watch John pilgers documentary the coming war on China on YouTube. Quite frightening but shows how the world works
@Ronan Fahy: Ireland is rich to, but only for the few
@Shane Barry: I agree Shane. European democracy and culture is worth preserving. We have a malevolent dictatorship on our borders, ask any citizen of the baltic states who have genuine fear of Russian invasion. Ireland has never been truly neutral, and we should be brave enough to stand with our european neighbours in a commom army of defence.
@Brian Mc: Move to Estonia then, otherwise you are a mouth piece pushing others to do your bidding.
@Ronan Fahy: So you are suggesting that the artificial splitting of our Island was wrong, it’s a long road to achieve the ideal state and that we should keep fighting for it. If immediately after liberating the North, if a few slave markets open up for a few years, the end justifies the means. I personally don’t buy it.
@Ronan Fahy: they say Libya was a country to be admired and too aspire too.
PESCO is a common defence and FG FF signed up to it,and on doing so it breaks irelands constitution as the constitution states Ireland will not join a EU common defence. Why has journalists not challenged this,why has opposition not challenged this.
@@mdmak33: bollocks
@@mdmak33: majority of journalists stay with the narrative. If you want real journalism watch John pilgers on YouTube
@@mdmak33: I would suggest you raise your concerns with the supreme court if you believe it unconstitutional. Alternatively, you could actually read up on what PESCO actually is, not a single operational mission in the lot, it’s about developing capabilities which the nations can then decide how to use, individually not collectively
@Vocal Outrage: it’s a means of progressing to a common defence, as it states in the Lisbon treaty,Irish constitution forbids Irish army joining a EU common defence, therefore they are disregarding the constitution.
@Patrick Robinson: Licking the Eu’s Bollocks .
@@mdmak33: care to explain the ‘how’ of capability development becoming common defence, particularly in light of the very constitutional treaty you mention which precludes involvement in common defence, even if PESCO did lead to such a conclusion without going back to the people?
Im between two minds on this one. Our culture of neutrality is something im proud of and the decentralised european military was one of the factors that prevented my countries being dragged into the second iraqi war. However in an all out scrabblee for power what chance would we have against super armied like China’s or Russia; we’d be picked off one by one.
@LynchTrea: I think you have watched way to many Hollywood movies!
@LynchTrea: sensible thoughts. We would be. Ireland is not in NATO so no defence. Under the GFA the UK is obliged to defend us but I dont trust them. I personally think Ireland needs a defence industry. That’s just me though.
@LynchTrea: watch ‘Occupied’ on Netflix. ….that’s how Russia would do it. …
@LynchTrea: ah ye the ol China and Russia threat …America are the imperialists now and are constantly bullying and threatening everyone else
@LynchTrea: surrender
@John Paul: Russia are the biggest threat to the Western world since Nazi Germany
@The decline of Manchester United: Hahahahahaha Sunday is a good day for comedians.
@The decline of Manchester United: explain?
@LynchTrea: You are proud Ireland didn’t fight the Nazis in WWII…it was very shameful actually.
No mention of “further integration ” being pushed by the EPP, merkel, Macron, and FG are members, they hold majority in EU parliament. What it means is no more opt outs,no more vetoes, no more Citizens referendums on EU treaty’s. Total control given to Brussels, and FG got EU army formation taken out of EPP manifesto, until after EU elections. Plain to see EU army formation is a priority for EPP grouping, and ALDE, FF group, support it.
Provisional SF are opposing a legitimate army, yet have no problem acting as apologists for an illegal bunch of thugs and criminals who murdered 2,000 souls? Uber hypocrites
@Stephen Kearon: Speaking of hypocrites, wasn’t this your party, fianna fail, caught up in an arms smuggling scandal to supply guns to the IRA??
@Stephen Kearon: Way to deflect that FF and FG voted in favor of increased EU military spending, which means that Ireland has to spend our money on helping the Brits develop weapons that they can then sell to pummel countries like Yemen, Libya, potententially Venezuala, Cuba and Iran. SF would rather see that money spent on things like social housing and cutting hospital waiting lists. We all know where FFG priorities lie. Think bankers, insurance companies and fleecing the average Irish citizen.
@Stephen Kearon: oh bore off, uber fool.
@Cal Mooney: how much money did Provisional SF spend with Libya, Colombia etc importing weapons to murder?
@Stephen Kearon: Always one! Uber? Really..go grab a hino Stephen stop living in the past
@Zippy: IRA atrocities cannot be forgotten no different than the famine or Dublin/Monaghan. All were equally henious.
@Paddy J: come on paddy you now what i meant..
@Stephen Kearon:you are must be some troll or maybe on your daddy’s laptop??
@Cal Mooney: factually incorrect. Irelands spend on defence as a % of GDP has been consistently dropping for years and we are the lowest spender on defence in the EU
PESCO is an agreement between European Countries to co-operate in the field of Military Defence. Irish involvement UN Military operations is an agreement that sees Ireland co-operate with other UN nations in the field of Defence. And the difference is????
When a a contingent of Fillipino Troops were under siege by ISIS in the Golan Heights region, it was Irish troops that went to their aid. They aided an UN allied nations troops by military means. Yet I have not heard a single complaint from the Neutrality brigade about this. When Irish troops aided Australian troops in East Timor, I heard no complaints. When we assisted French Troops in Chad, I heard no complaints.
Strange that Irish troops can be involved in Military Operations around the world often involved in combat defending themselves or other UN troops and there is no word of complaint, but more so plenty of Praise. But when we agree to Co-operate with fellow Europen Nations there is uproar and faux indignation. Hypocrisy at its finest.
Great idea. Irish soldiers might actually get proper pay and conditions
@stephen darling: can’t see that happening!
@stephen darling: ^^^ the EU would accord our Defence Forces more respect than this Government does and that’s another reason I’d support it.
Ireland is not neutral the six counties are part of NATO .
@John Smith: those counties belong to Britain.
@mark stewart: So the 26 counties is not Ireland . They are the Irish republic . Ireland is not neutral .
@John Smith: what counties are you dribbling on about, 6 counties or 26 ,make your mind up.
@John Smith: The Irish Republic ceased to exist in 1919. Please learn your history. This state’s official name is Ireland, while its official description is the Republic of Ireland, not the Irish Republic.
@John Smith: Not on their passports…
@Brian Ó Dálaigh: The Republic of Ireland is a football team, nothing more!
I was just listening to the Eurovision Song Contest and came to the conclusion that if Ireland didn’t go through they must have been very poor
I hope it does ….. our current effort is a joke …. our forces should better equipped and better payed …. they would be in a European army ….
Is Ireland not committed 800 troops to the EU Scandic Rapid Reaction Force…. What Neutrality?
@Jeff Nolan: Its suppose to protect us but we even lose a war with Wales when it happens… ;p
You will do as Ordered by your Eu Masters . Get back to grovelling like the Irish used to do , to the British Empire and the Catholic Church Empire .
Must have enjoyed it to be now grovelling back on those knees to the Eu .
I wouldnt worry there won’t be a Defence forces if what is recommended in th e PSPC is true there will be no Defence forces.
PESCO is not a common defence policy ffs. That is an uneducated opinion flaming the comments section if ever I read one. It’s an agreement to pool research resources and to develop and purchase military systems and equipment that we would normally develop or buy in small numbers independently.
In the long run it reduces costs to the European taxpayer and thus the Irish taxpayer.
When we go to upgrade or replace ships, aircraft and armored vehicles, we can jump into an order with a larger country and get a reduced cost per unit.
There’s now going to be money saved in the defence budget, that won’t need to be spent getting a one off design in small numbers for a tiny nation like we normally have to do. We do however need to increase our current capabilities outside of that, larger navy, air defence radar, better armored vehicles, improved working conditions and remuneration, look into replacing reliance on Royal Airforce with a small number of our own jet aircraft, possibly leasing from Saab like Slovakia do and like we’re already do with the Coast Guard helicopters.
15th highest GDP in EU and lowest defence budget, sometimes wrong here. Neither those in govt nor opposition can hide behind fake news, grandstanding, exaggeration nor excuses anymore.
2% GDP has to be the goal.
Of course there will be an EU army, also Tax harmonization and more power ceded to our EU overlords.
Stop posting Shite about this European Army and Ireland’s participation. It can’t and it won’t happen. Remember it’s election time and these so called republicans are trying to scare the Be-Jaysus outa everyone. Just say to scaremongering and vote for who you feel is decent
@Billy Carroll: Nobody that sells their Country to the Eu Empire is Decent .
@Pl O’neill: empire again PJ . You really need to get out more .. have some warm pints with nigel..
cue ‘photo op ‘ leo – dressed as action man like some demented village people tribute act !!!
The facts on record, which can be independently verified, speak for themselves.
http://unitedpeople.ie/the-eu-army/
@Unitedpeople: ok, but can you give us a link to those independent facts? The link you provided appears to neither contain facts nor be independent?
So just in case an EU army does happen, we’ll all make sure to vote yes on “Article 38″ if/when there’s a referendum on it. It basically means enshrining our neutrality into our constitution. Which is a very good idea, just in case an EU army becomes a reality (which is looking more likely).
Of course FF, FG & Labour are voting against it, which should really tell us all what we need to know.
Very interesting debate in the Dàil about it recently.
If anyone is interested I’ll post a link
It’s ironic…
Let’s play soldiers silly season…
I don’t think that we should be neutral as there may be some instances where we may need to intervene, but we should have an independent foreign policy and not a common foreign policy
I truly don’t understand why we even have an army if we are ment to be neutral, we could spend all that money on other things
Genuine question if we are Neutral why even bother ??
have your say