We need your help now
Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.
You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.
If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.
Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
By continuing, you are indicating that you accept our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.
IRISH SOLDIERS ARE “living on the breadline” and looking for the government to give them a reason to stay, a representative body told TDs and Sentors today.
The Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade and Defence has this morning been hearing from the Representative Association of Commissioned Officers (Raco) about the staff retention crisis in the Defence Forces.
Some 3,200 personnel left the Defence Forces between 2014 and 2018. This figure was described by General Secretary of Raco, Commandant Conor King, as “an astonishing 34.7%” of the average strength for those years.
“Before people think that this is due to the early mandatory retirement ages for Defence Forces personnel, I must state that 82% of these were premature voluntary retirements,” he said.
King referenced the recent high profile recruitment drives in 2017 and last year. Despite this push to increase numbers, there was a net loss of 120 personnel last year.
“There were 256 discharges in the first four months of 2019. This is by far the highest figure since the reorganisation of 2012. In April 2019 alone there were an unprecedented 86 discharges,” he said.
King said the army is struggling to fulfill its assigned tasks, domestically and internationally.
Ships are unable to go to sea and aircraft are not flying as a result of personnel shortages. Yet the Department of Defence continues to prioritise costly recruitment policies in favour of tangible retention initiatives.
Below the average public sector wage
He also said that inadequate supervision and mentoring as experienced staff leave the force, combined with inadequate trained manning levels, is leading to burnout among staff.
King pointed out that 87% of all Defence Forces personnel earn “well below the average public sector wage”.
“The fact that the lowest paid public sector organisation in the State is also the most defenceless in terms of advocating for its rights is deeply unfair and disrespectful to the men and women of Óglaigh na hÉireann, many of whom are forced to rely on social welfare to support their families,” he told the committee.
Normal public service employment conditions do not apply to those in the Defence Forces, they have no right to strike and can be called on 24 hours a day, seven days a week. The health and safety provisions of the EU Working Time Directive also do not currently apply to the Defence Forces.
“The Defence Forces is currently surviving on the goodwill and loyalty of its personnel; that willingness to go over and above the call of duty to achieve the mission or complete the task,” King said.
The inability of personnel to take to the streets in protest at their appalling service conditions has resulted in them voting with their feet and leaving the organisation.
Raco is calling for the introduction of a specific independent Defence Forces pay review body to ensure members are fairly treated and to help tackle the retention crisis.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
These people face long hours, weekend duty, sick time only with a doctors note for one day off and low pay.. A decent wage and some discharge benefits at the end of three four years is how other armies keep their soldiers. This is a volunteer Army so there needs to be some benefit to joining. As a veteran, I am well aware that it’s not simply a job.
@Rathminder: got to say I agree with you I served in the late 70s early 80s. Nothing has changed with regards to the defence forces it has always been treated badly by successive governments. The requirements with regard to fitness levels and ability to serve have changed which is not a bad thing but still soldiers and naval personnel living on the breadline.
@Edmond Mc Grath: And to think FFG want us to contribute to NATO member military spending under the guise of PESCO. Go get a grip, pay our soldiers at the same rate as the US. That’s where the extra money FFG want to spend should go.
@Cal Mooney: there will be nothing to contribute.
Good, there should be more money available to pay the remaining better.
Cut back on the overseas duties to cover reduced numbers.
@Patrick Nolan: Ah yeah but you fine with Leo, FG and EU push for a European Army. Hypocrite
@Patrick Nolan: You are aware overseas duties generate revenue?
@Patrick Nolan: Plenty of money for FG to hand over to Auditors, NCH, bankers, Civil Servants
@Coco86: He is a FG spin doctor
@Gowon Geter:
Ah the old “anyone that doesn’t agree with me is a FG spin doctor” routine.
Inpressive stuff.
@Patrick Nolan: All you ever seem to do is support FG policies , so correct me then, tell us all a criticism of FG then ?
@Coco86:
I’m sure it does but with reduced numbers will it still be possible.
Fact is I’m a realist, there is ZERO apatite among Irish voters for an increase in military/defense spending, notice who did well in the locals? The Greens are not known for buying tanks….
That said I’m well aware of the low pay among recruits (seen a payslip once recently) so I’m just suggesting reducing the workload to allow for lower numbers and pay the ones we have better with the savings.
@Gowon Geter:
FF should have brought down the government over the NCH or at the very least Harris should have lost his job.
@Patrick Nolan: And remember many of these members of our defense forces have families and children to support. It’s shocking to think many have to depend on the Family Income Support to survive.
@Patrick Nolan: Truly great spin doctoring .. blaming FF for FG failings
@Patrick Nolan: speak for yourself : I support an increase in Defence spending, not less. And I’m not alone : you’re just spoofing.
@John Moylan: It’s pointless shifting blame between FF and FG, who are both different sides of the same coin. Each will criticise the other, while at the same time supporting them – anything to remain in power.
@John Moylan:
How many TDs and councilors have campaigned on an increase in defense spending? Can you name one successful who had it on his/her manifesto?
You may well find one, best chance would be in the local election area that includes the Curragh.
@Charliegrl80:
agreed
There is no need for any enquiries/investigations/reviews,the proof is under their noses, time to act and pay our service personnel a decent wage, government should be ashamed of themselves to allow this situation to exist and I mean successive governments, this appalling treatment didn’t start with the present government, it has been allowed to persist over decades.
Maybe this is what the government want is forpeople to quit so they dont have tp pay up.
It ridiculous in this day and age that our forces are being treated with disdain.
They deserve to be paid well, and respected for the job they do.
They are well trained and always represent our country well when abroad , they are unpaid ambassadors, any minister reading this l ask you to take up their cause.
Vote for change. Don’t vote FFG …
@Willy: Bit late, the sheep already did, worse still 55% of the electorate didn’t vote, morons.
@Willy: Vote for the Greens and pay more tax nothing about a living wage which I think people don’t realise how many people are just getting the minimum wage and trying to make ends meet
@Willy: the people are listening Willy, that’s why they are voting for FF/GP. They have had enough of the skimmed milk that FG have been doling out and they want the full fat milk again. Who better to give it to them than FF. The public are clever Willy, cunning even and they know who gives them a good time. Not that sort of a good time in case your mind is wandering ;-)
If the dung ever hits the fan it’s our defence forces that we will turn to in our time of need. To put it simple, these people have taken an oath to risk e everything for us, they must be looked after.
There are better ways of spending money that would benefit soldiers then giving them a pay rise . The army should start building army quarters for soldiers and their families . Would a pay rise make much difference to a soldiers life . Not really . Give a soldier and his family a house near his place of work for a few hundred euro a month . That would make a real difference to his income . It also eliminates travel expenses. Plus it’s money invested in the future of the defence force . You can then provide child care facilities for soldiers families in the area of the married quarters .
@John Smith: and what about when they are mandatory retired on age grounds and are left homeless? If pay was increased at least they would have some hope of affording housing and feeding their families
@John Smith: You go and peddle that argument with a soldier ffs .. FG give out 5-10K pay rises to themselves on top of their overpaid salaries and then expenses fro everything
@Vocal Outrage: Or they could live in a army quarter for a few hundred euro a month then buy a property to let out which contributes to his mortgage . Brit soldiers live in married quarters for between 2 to 3 hundred a month . Soldiers wife’s run childcare facilities on the estate . When battalions are deployed on op s the government gives a grant to the battalion families office that is then spent on day trips to places like Alton towers , cinema and so on . It’s all about looking after soldiers and their families and retaining the experience soldiers you have . Why spend sixty grand on recruiting , equipping and training a soldier when you could build a house for that for a soldier and his family .
There we go people complain about the army, what do we need them for? What do they do?. Well today answered that question when this morning they where sent in to patrol Blancherdstown because the guards can’t do it.Ah sure these guys do nothing.
@Sharon Obrien:
There was 20 army personal sent to blancherdstown, I’m sure the other 8,480 could handle their absence.
@Patrick Nolan: your an imbecile
@Sharon Obrien: They weren’t sent to patrol Blanchardstown, they were searching an area of land.
I’ve a long standing friend. A Commandant in the IA. Says that Varadkar doesn’t engage or speak to Army top brass. He seems to have difficulty in engaging or trying to communicate effictively. He comes and does a. few troop inspections, the media is there, but goes on his way again. He says of Kehoe, “ a really sound fella, approachable, but hasn’t a clue and is way out of his depth.”
All front line services should be getting an increase before anyone in the Dáil.
For anybody that espouses the “if they don’t like the pay, they should quit” mentality, have a think about this. If we don’t keep the job competitive enough to retain people of calibre, then a day may come where it comes back to bite us. This is a matter of our national security. If and when the music stops, which could happen in a number of different ways, we will be like the kid without a chair….
just find a new job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is going on for years. Why are they still joining the army knowing it’s pay is crap. Only solution is for everyone to resign and look for other work because wages have been crap for decades .
@Daithi Ó Raghallaigh: I can only imagine what would happen to the job market if suddenly 8,500 extra job seekers came on the scene, ot would be an employers markets and wages would plummet for all
@Vocal Outrage:
33,444 job vacancies on indeed.com at the moment
https://ie.indeed.com/m/jobs?q=&l=Ireland
@Daithi Ó Raghallaigh: money was not bad up to 2009. The €130 a week pay cut ended that.
@Daithi Ó Raghallaigh: the pay was ok up to 2009. The €130 a week pay cut put an end to that
What is the average solider earning. Just asking.
@Brian:
Don’t know the average but a single guy/girl just starting would bring home about €340 per week if my memory serves.
Bring in Conscription.
A lot of the older soldiers have gone with decent pensions at the age of 50 approx. But the new recruits have no hope of doing the same when they reach the 50 mark as the pensions which are happening now in most of the public service jobs are not possible for the younger generation. Shame on the old brigade you have pulled up the ladder behind you leaving the youngsters to drown in the swill.
In sweden they are now afraid of an attack from Russia after letting their army fall into decline. https://youtu.be/YCAJofc4ajM
So are we all broke wages are shit everywhere.When you have to decide if you’ll put petrol in your car or treat your family on the weekend and by treat by no means is it anything special
@Fritz: does your job expect you to do 24hr shifts, with no sleep, average money spent on your food ration for that 24hrs being less than what is spent on a prisoner in Mountjoy? All for an extra €17 into your bank account…
So 256 left in the first 4 months and they’ve recruited 231?! €230000 for minus 25 personnel? I’d like to hear the dept swing on that one!!
And how does she plan on encouraging more females to join? The job is circling the drain! Encouraging anyone to join is proving near impossible!
have your say