@Logan Shepherd: I’m not being smart, but why is it an either/or situation? It’s not like the cause systemic poverty has been caused by erecting (mostly modest) memorial pieces.

@James Wallace: Of course it should be remembered and I think it always will be. I don’t have a problem with a memorial. I do have a problem with the fact that some people in this country still live in poverty or borderline poverty. I don’t think that anyone who experienced the famine would be happy that it’s now our own that are allowing it to continue.

@Oscar: Sea the sue

@Fergal O’ Reilly: You’re right, it’s not.
The memorial will be built but people will still be left living in poverty.
I don’t have any issue with a memorial being built.
My point was that a good way to remember would be to make sure that people are no longer suffering due to poverty.

@Logan Shepherd: The two are mutually exclusive Logan

@Chewey Bacca: See above ..

@New Day Rising: I’m being pedantic, but food shortages, even if deliberately caused or politically motivated and where the result is starvation, that’s technically still a famine.

@James Wallace: The majority of Irish didn’t die from starvation they died from disease. There is the argument that Starvation destroys the immune system to resist disease but a million people wouldn’t have died if Ireland wasn’t in the middle of a epidemic of fever, dysentery and smallpox. https://www.historyireland.com/18th-19th-century-history/epidemic-diseases-of-the-great-famine/

@John Smith: yes John I’ve read extensively on the topic, Imostly agree with what you say

@John Smith: wasn’t most of Europe facing the same problems such as the bubonic plague? I’d still go along with the idea that it was a result of bad immune systems as a result of starvation.

@New Day Rising: it should be remembered as genocide or our Holocaust. Of course there was a potato blight and disease but the facts are there was still an abundance of food in Ireland but the British authorities exported all this food to feed their own people well aware of the impact it would have on the Irish population

@New Day Rising: Fully agree. What politician is bold enough to stop the pretence that Ireland was not ethnically cleansed. It’s not like there’s a shortage of evidence. Look for instance, at who chartered this particular ship to remove unwanted peasants by force from ‘his’ land.

Food shortages deliberately caused and resulting in starvation is either murder, manslaughter or ethnic cleansing.

@John Smith: “it was a famine . The potato blight wiped out the food source for f 70 percent of the Irish population that where depending on the potato crop”. This is factually incorrect. The main food source for people in western Scotland disappeared as well but they had no famine. People in England and Wales also. Why?? Because the British government allowed these people to die. The Irish were sub human to the Imperial Upper class establishment. The Irish grew lots of food. But this food was exported to England by the Army. The English done nothing to help the starving Irish who were in the conditions they were in due them the English in the first place. They’re is a very good book on this by Tim Pat Coogan. Let’s call the famine what it was a land clearance and an attempt to wipe out part of the population. Aka Genocide and a crime under modern day international law. When people flew the county the English were ecstatic. It meant more food would be available for the UK and her armies to rule the world.

@John Smith: There wasn’t the political will to attempt to effectively feed the populace, it suited the establishment for hunger, disease and emigration to decimate the population.

@Denis McClean: history has been rewritten and diluted over the years Dennis to suit the British narrative. None of our spineless politicians will ever step up and say this publicly nor will the British govt ever admit to carrying out genocide

@John Paul:You need to study your history. Food was scarce, there was no abundance. But food (mainly butter and oats ) was still wrongly being exported mainly by traders and merchants. Food in insufficient quantities was actually being imported by the British authorities.

@great gael of Eire: The army in 1840 was about 120 thousand strong . 50000 where deployed to their colonies . 70000 troops where spread across the The UK and Ireland . The bulk of troops in Ireland where from Irish regiments . You really need to get away from this idea that the British army had millions of soldiers invading every country in the world and forced British rule across Canada , India , Australia and 70 other colonies . The army was the same size of the army of today . The army of 2019 couldn’t even maintain a present in Iraq and Afghanistan at the same time . Britain was s naval power its army was tiny . https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/letters/famine-food-facts-dont-add-up-228979.html

@John Mc Donagh: I know my history I don’t need any West Brit watered down version from the like of you. You believe your own version the Irish people know what happened

@John Mc Donagh: Sorry but the evidence from ports like Liverpool say otherwise. Enough grains left Ireland during those years to feed two million people a year. Over three million animals were exported between 1846 – 1850. Exports even increased in these years. We also have the likes of the British Navy sinking fishing boats off Sligo. Also the amount of wealth leaving the country in rents. There was blight elsewhere, Scotland, Holland, Belgium but there was no famine.

@John Smith: wrong conclusion. read your history, and I am not talking about your English interpretation of Irish history.

@John Paul: the food was exported to their army around the British empire.

@John Smith: Have you ever heard of all the food that was shipped out of the country by our depressors around the same time.

@John Paul: The food was sold and exported by Irish dealers. Sold to the people who could pay most.

@John Paul: Yeah Yeah I know the usual insulting reply from somebody intent on propagating the usual violent nationalist propaganda. I’m just interested in the factual history, The descendants of the survivors of that that unfortunate shipwreck (The Carricks of Whitehaved )visit Sligo on an annual basis I have met them several times ——Now go and learn your history

@John Paul: Now THAT is the type of argument guaranteed to win a debate.

@John Mc Donagh: so let me get this straight. you met descendants of survivors of a shipwreck and that makes you an expert on Irish history and the famine? Sweet jesus. So these descendants told you there was absolutely no other food in Ireland and no food was exported out of Ireland during the famine? All Irish historians who say otherwise need to get new jobs the only version is the John mcdonagh version

@TheHeathen: no no stop that now. John mcdonagh knows the history of Ireland. He met someone who told him about it

@John Smith: Died from disease you say, ah shur that’s grand so

@John Smith: BS john. You come on here everyday lying through your teeth. Have you no shame. It was a genocide. The reason the Irish people(whom your English forefathers considered as subhuman) were dependent on the potato is because all the other food sources were stolen from them by the British. Millions of Irish starved to death as the British stole their food and shipped it to England. And for fear that was not bad enough, the British blocked of grain ships from docking in Irish ports, grain ships that were sent as aid by other Countries. It was a systematic effort by the British to cleanse Ireland of Catholics. The British did the same in India. Over 25 million starved to death while the British stole and shipped out millions of tonnes of grain.

@@at: In 1943, up to four million Bengalis starved to death when Churchill diverted food to British soldiers and countries such as Greece while a deadly famine swept through Bengal. People started dying and Churchill said well it’s all their fault anyway for breeding like rabbits. He said ‘I hate the Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion

@John Paul: Yeah that’s it, unless it can be twisted to fit the violent Republican narrative It must not be entertained.

@John Paul: The article is actually about a proposed monument to the casualties from the wreck of The Carricks of Whitehaven which foundered in a violent squall off New Brunswick in April 1847. Something that I would certainly support. It’s a pity that such a worthy proposal for a memorial can be twisted and disparaged.

@sean o’dhubhghaill: You are not supposed to say that however true =—-It doesn’t fit the Republican narrative

@John Mc Donagh: I didn’t mention violence or Republicans once in any comment I posted and I have no time for it. You are the one twisting things to suit your own narrative . You have lied here in saying there was no food being exported from Ireland when history shows there clearly was but don’t let that get in the way of your take on Irish history

@John Mc Donagh: I would certainly support that aswell. I would also support the truth on Irish history and the famine instead of your own twisted and diluted version which is an insult to the memory of those who starved to death while food was being exported from their land.

@John Paul: Now that you appear to have calmed down, can you please point out to me where I wrote that there was no food exported from Ireland

@@at: Tom Clark once said all Irish people should have nothing to do with Ni..ers . Black people . What’s your point .

@@at: house have several historical inaccuracies in your comments. If we’re going to debate history it helps if we stick to facts. Interpretation of the facts can vary or be discussed, however.
Regarding your claim that it was a genocide solely against the Catholic population: in one Armagh workhouse in 1847, 55% of those who died were protestant. That’s just one example where you misrepresent the facts. There are several more.

@James Wallace: *you have (that opening line should be)

@James Wallace: You’re dealing with history according to An Phoblact
First rule “Facts not allowed”

@John Paul: I understand quite clearly that you are not interested in facts,but as I wrote previously I met with some of the descendants from the Carricks shipwreck and with them, researched and found the little holdings that their ancestors left on their ill fated voyage. We also did a huge amount of research into the conditions and circumstances both social and economic that caused them to leave. So maybe you might concede that I have a fairly good idea of the whole situation that existed at that time

@John Mc Donagh: the part where I said there was food being exported , you said I need to study my history therefore implying it never happened and where you wrote that in fact the British where importing food into Ireland . Did you read theheathen’s comment on how much food was exported to Liverpool? I don’t think you replied to him

@John Paul:IIf you’re interested I wrote that” food was wrongly being exported by Merchants and traders ” AND it is historical fact that the British imported several cargoes of maize.I am only interested in the actual history not the perceived history. I am the first to accept that the Brits did not cover themselves in glory but if you want the real story the absolute villains of the piece were the landlord’s agents. Again if you care to study the history of the time in a dispassionate manner you will see that 60% of the big estates were offered for sale in the encumbered estate sales in the decades following the famine and most of them were acquired by the same Irish merchants who were involved in the food exporting,but that doesn’t suit the Republican narrative

@James Wallace: so it’s all fiction so that at the soup kitchens you had to switch your religion from
Catholic to Protestant in order to get fed ??? Is this all fiction our ‘resident genocide expert’ ??

@John Smith: my point is that your beloved nation is responsible for millions upon millions of deaths, through, torture, starvation and murder. Your beloved army is the biggest terrorist organisation the world has ever seen

@James Wallace: also the penal laws were a figment of our imaginations also ????

@@at: The Nazis had an army of 6 million at the beginning of WW2 . The British imperialist army was 120 thousand . Getting a British history lesson off a shinner is like getting a Jewish history lesson of a Nazi . You have to keep reminding the shinners that the Irish made up 40 percent of the British armed forces .

@@at: again misinformation. The idea of ‘soupers’ is widely regarded as Catholic propaganda & it most certainly was not required that you had to change religion in order to get soup and though it may have happened, it was it never a common practice. In fact, as a people we owe a great debt to the Quakers (Protestants) who did trojan charity work here at the time. Besides all that, I have not directly commented on whether I believe it was genocide or not. I do believe the Brits were massively culpable, but then again, unlike you who has shown a poor grasp of what actually happened, I have read widely on the subject and even written articles about it. You keep throwing out historically incorrect generalities. Go read some books, come back when you know what you’re talking about.

@James Wallace: I suggest you do the same and stop reading them books from a twisted English perspective. It has warped your mind. I noticed you conveniently ignored my question about the penal laws. Run along and educate yourself

@John Smith: so it was just one whole coincidence that during the British Invasion of Ireland when they shipped millions of tonnes out of the country that there was a famine, just like it was a pure coincidence that 25 million died in a famine in India at the same time they were invaded by the British. You are a grade one liar and there is not a moral bone in your body, you murdering terrorist

@John Smith: the nazi reign went on for a few decades, the British army reign of terror went on for centuries. Like I said the biggest terrorist organisation the whole has ever seen and remember you were part of that. It will eat you up inside some day

@@at: as I said, I deal in facts and the facts are that the Penal Laws existed. Why on earth would I deny that? While the laws played a role in creating the conditions that eventually led to the disaster of the 1840′s I didn’t think that was relevant to your constantly displayed ignorance of the topic.How about you refute some of my points instead of throwing insults? I’m beginning to think I’m discussing with a 12 year old.

@@at: and the last book I read on the topic was by Tim Pat Coogan who writes from a Republican perspective who believes it was Genocide. I’m open minded, unlike yourself.

@James Wallace: here you go. Like I said ‘educate yourself’

Souperism was a phenomenon of the Irish Potato Famine. Protestant Bible societies set up schools in which starving children were fed, on the condition of receiving Protestant religious instruction at the same time. Its practitioners were reviled by the Catholic families who had to choose between Protestantism and starvation. People who converted for food were known as soupers, a derogatory epithet that continued to be applied and featured in the press well into the 1870s. In the words of their peers, they “took the soup”.

@@at: I never denied it happened, read my comment again, but it’s been overstated. You stated the ONLY way to get fed was to switch religion, provably not true. And your using Wikipedia for historical research? I rely on historians who write these things called books: you should try one out sometime.

@John Smith: them “most Irish” you refer to landed on British colonies that were already taken from the Native Americans.

Many of whom were treated no better than the Native Americans.

@Mushy Peas: many more Irish became rich in the Deep South where they exploited black people for slavery .