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FIFTEEN YEARS AGO, Fingal County Council became the first local authority in Ireland to stream its council meetings live online.
It was the same year that YouTube was launched and Facebook was celebrating its first birthday. Twitter would not arrive for another year, while Instagram had not yet even been imagined.
Fingal’s initiative was hailed by then junior minister Noel Ahern as a way to give “new meaning to transparency and customer service”.
Well over a decade later, you could be forgiven for assuming such webcasting would by now be routine.
In fact, just four of the 31 local authorities around the country routinely make live – or even delayed – coverage of their meetings available online.
Three of them – Fingal, Dublin City, and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown councils – are in Dublin, while only Roscommon of the remaining local authorities offers the service.
That leaves another 27 where members of the public can only attend in person, or are left searching for minutes or transcripts on council websites, the quality of which varies enormously.
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Considering how far technology has advanced in the time since Fingal seized the initiative, Noteworthy wanted to find out why other local authorities have been so slow to embrace something that on the face of it seems simple.
Through the use of Freedom of Information (FOI) legislation, we’ve been able to build a national picture of why progress has been so slow.
‘Grandstanding’
Every local authority in the country responded either to our direct queries or our FOI requests with the most common excuse given relating to the cost of the service.
Others said that nobody would be interested, that no one had ever asked for it, or that it was something they had never even investigated.
Still others have said it is actively under consideration. There were occasionally other reasons though.
In documents from Wexford County Council, we discovered there were concerns that webcasting of meetings would lead to “grandstanding” by local politicians who enjoyed the camera’s gaze.
The council had been offered a demonstration of webcasting technology by Public-i (a UK-based firm who provide the service to all of the Irish councils who currently livestream).
One official asked colleagues: “Do we wish to examine the feasibility of webcasting Wexford County Council meetings … if so this probably the opportunity to do so? Or is that something the senior management team may not wish to pursue at this time?”
In response, Director of Services Eddie Taaffe wrote: “I would leave this alone – it is very expensive and can lead to grandstanding.
“South Dublin County Council looked at it when I was there and steered away from it for these two reasons,” wrote Mr Taaffe.
His colleague replied: “I thought there might not be an appetite for this facility – for these and other reasons … will drop.”
Neighbouring Carlow County Council has also ruled out webcasting of their meetings for a different reason. They said they had concerns that the webcasts were “open to hacking and being edited etc from third parties”.
Cost Grounds
Other councils said cost was the main issue. South Dublin County Council, the only local authority in the capital that does not provide webcasting, twice gave serious consideration to the proposal.
However, after a presentation was made to councillors in 2017 – it was decided not to proceed because the “level of funding required could not be justified”.
The issue came back on the agenda in 2018 when Councillor Paul Gogarty put forward a motion for €160,000 to be set aside to provide webcasting facilities over an extended period.
In a vote, 11 members voted for the proposal and 21 against. “The motion fell,” said an information note provided by the council.
Mr Gogarty told Noteworthy.ie: “Twice, I put motions down and twice it was voted against. The argument ostensibly used is that it would cost too much and that it was money that could be better spent on other things.
“I think it’s a red herring. We have had some very contentious debates … which would have got quite abusive at times. There were other very heated meetings and I think certain councillors don’t want to be constrained in the manner in which they operate.
“We do have a new council and I’d hope they would be more conducive to webcasting, and I’d be slightly more hopeful when I bring it up again this year.
“For me, the question is what price democracy? These meetings are often on during work time or when people are minding kids and cannot attend the public gallery. We would not be expecting a huge amount of people to watch but it’s the fact that you can.
“At the moment, maybe six weeks later, you might get stark minutes but there’s nothing substantive in terms of why people have made decisions. People can claim to have done x, y, and z but there’s no proof. There isn’t a full transcript.
“I think there’s a deficit there and people feel a disconnect. A sub-argument was that people would use it to ‘grandstand’ but councillors going on for hours does not necessarily come across very well either.”
An Old Chestnut
One council actively looking at webcasting is Louth County Council.
Internal emails explain how this is not the first time it has been considered with one official saying that it had already been explored in 2007, 2011, and 2014.
“This is a bit of an old chestnut,” joked the official in an email, “we look, we talk, we consider the implications e.g. GDPR, we price … we run like hell … bottom line we will need a sizable budget and as it is coming up to budget time then at least it is opportune.”
Other records explain how defamation issues could arise with a portion of one webcast from an unnamed local authority taken down due to a “threat of legal action” from a councillor against a colleague.
“[It’s] important that members and staff are generally aware that recording is taking place,” said an information note.
“The recordings also provide a useful reference for minutes, follow-up etc. as they are easily searchable. There can be a tendency for speakers to exceed their allotted time to maximise exposure, particularly with regard to contentious issues.”
The risk of defamation was also cited by Kerry County Council in their response.
“Discussions at council previously have cited possible obstacles including defamation and exposing the council to possible litigation,” they said.
Kerry County Council said the introduction of webcasting would require a change to their standing orders and would need to be agreed by the full council.
The Kildare Experience
One of the most in-depth examinations of the benefits of webcasting council meetings took place in Co Kildare where local councillor Fiona McLoughlin Healy had looked for live streaming.
She was told there would be a one-off installation fee of around €8,000 – €10,000 and running costs for sixty hours of proceedings of circa €14,000 per year.
“This would be the price for a standard streaming package with most of the required functionality around capture, storage, search and display functionality etc. as seen for example on the [Fingal] website,” she was informed.
An add-on option – which would have allowed for integration of social media – encouraging direct and immediate feedback from members of the public would add around €6,000-a-year to the cost.
At a protocol meeting in December 2017, the possibility of webcasting was discussed with several present in favour of it.
One councillor asked how other local authorities managed it and suggested it could cause difficulties in chairing meetings.
Others questioned whether a “slice and dice” approach of edited contents would be provided saying that could lead to things being taken out of context.
The meeting was told: “The camera follows the microphone and there would be no editing as whoever presses the microphone activates the camera.”
Kildare went as far as contacting every local authority in the country about their own experiences – with 16 of 25 councils responding.
Cavan, Cork City and County, Monaghan, Offaly, and Tipperary all said they’d had no proposals for live streaming and no plans to introduce it.
In Clare, webcasting was twice proposed but shot down both times. In Donegal and Meath, a plan was put forward but never progressed.
Leitrim had decided not to use it because of cost issues while Wicklow had abandoned their webcast experiment four years after its introduction in 2007 because viewing numbers were just 30 to 40 a month.
There were positive responses from the four local authorities that livestreamed their meetings however.
A summary of the experience in Roscommon County Council explained: “The live viewing figures are low but increase in the days after the meeting.
“In their [Roscommon’s] opinion, it has made the meetings more professional and they are quite pleased with its introduction and satisfied with its impact allowing all council business and meetings to be conducted in an open and transparent manner.”
In April 2018, the plan to webcast meetings from Kildare was put to the council floor.
One of the issues raised was the fact that councillors did not enjoy the same “privilege” on the floor as TDs would in Leinster House, effectively exempting them from defamation actions.
An account of the meeting said this “has to be considered” even though meetings are public in any event and covered by local media.
Ultimately, with 11 councillors in Kildare voting in favour of the plan, 22 voting against, and another 7 absent – the motion failed.
Cllr McLoughlin-Healy said however that webcasting was now back on the agenda.
She said: “My first motion for the new council term in June was that the council resolve to introduce webcasting of public meetings of the full council, in order to meet the principles of participation, trust, accountability, and transparency.
“With the amendment of webcasting to broadcasting, the motion passed finally.”
She said the plan has now moved to the protocol committee to figure out how to introduce it.
“This time the council sent it to protocol with its approval and for protocol to address the ‘how’ not ‘if’. This is the first time in five years of motions and debate of webcasting of council meetings for it to have gained the full support of the council before being [referred on],” she said.
“After five years as a councillor, I believe, more than any other individual change, the recording and webcasting of council meetings would significantly improve the accountability, behaviour and performance of local councillors and council officials.”
A similar scoping exercise to Kildare has also taken place in Tipperary, where two council chambers in Nenagh and Clonmel would have to be set up for webcasting.
One briefing note gave eight reasons why recording of meetings could help, including allowing for immediate viewing, or playback facility.
The note also said it would be available to all, create a valuable archive, and would give a local authority control if proceedings were subject to “media censorship, spin, [or] misinterpretation”.
The Councils that do webcast
Of the councils that do livestream their meetings, details of how often they were viewed have been sought by Noteworthy.
Dublin City Council said the service had cost them €19,295 last year and that total views for the eleven meetings they held were 2,295.
Anywhere between 30 and 80 people watched the proceedings live and an average of 150 people used the playback facility to watch a meeting later.
The city council said they had been webcasting meetings since 2007 and had not undertaken any audits or value for money reports on it.
In promotional material for Public-i, the company who provide the service, Dublin City Council said the cost was justified because meetings were now “more efficient”.
“Decisions can now be easily tracked and recorded for follow-up. There is also greater public awareness and engagement with decision making and a reduction in queries from press and the public,” said their IT Department.
“We could not consider stopping the service now as it is deeply embedded in our operations.”
It was a similar story in Dun Laoghaire Rathdown, where the cost of the service was a little lower and came in at €12,834 last year.
Viewing figures for their meetings ranged between 158 for a county council meeting in September to 321 for the one held in December. They have been webcasting since 2008.
In Roscommon, streaming of meetings was only introduced in 2017 and last year the cost of the service came to €15,448.
Viewing figures for meetings varied widely from just 45 for a meeting of the Western Development Commission to 517 for a presidential nominations meeting in September.
For normal monthly meetings, the number of people watching averaged around 140.
The Innovators
Fingal, the council which started it all, said they had incurred no costs from provision of webcasting in 2018.
They said that across all of the various meetings they had streamed during last year – council meetings and local area meetings – there had been almost 7,700 views.
County council meetings tended to prompt the most interest although Fingal Development Plan meetings proved a poor draw – attracting an audience of just three.
Fingal said webcasting had now become “part of the furniture” and was appreciated by both members of the public who contacted them and councillors.
Brian Buckley, senior executive officer at Fingal, told Noteworthy: “It’s been working very well – we find that anybody from the public who contacts us finds it useful. They can see in real time councillors speaking on motions and reports.
“They can see who is opposing an item and they can see the reason why. The public know exactly what the reasoning is behind decisions. The record is there at the moment for a year and if somebody wants to go back further, we can get it for a fee.
“We use it ourselves as well to verify the minutes to keep them accurate and nobody can argue with them then. Our councillors appreciate it being there because they know their point is being made publicly for constituents to see. They got used to it very quickly; it becomes just part of the furniture.”
Campaign group Transparency Ireland said webcasting of meetings should be encouraged among local authorities.
Dr Elliott Jordan-Doak, who researches transparency in local government in Ireland, said: “Streaming council meetings won’t just improve transparency and accountability, it will also help promote public understanding of how decisions are made in practice and over time should improve public trust in local government.
“Participation in politics begins with an understanding of how things work, and streaming meetings is one way that this can be improved. It won’t radically transform how people interact with their council, but it’s a step in the right direction,”
Dublin City Council: Webcasting since 2007
Dun Laoghaire Rathdown: Webcasting since 2008
South Dublin: Motion to introduce opposed by councillors twice
Fingal: Webcasting since 2005
Carlow: No Webcasting – concerns that footage could be hacked and edited
Kildare: Motion to introduce opposed by councillors but now back on agenda
Kilkenny: No webcasting and no plans to do so
Laois: No webcasting and no plans to do so
Longford: No webcasting because of prohibitive costs and lack of demand.
Louth: Currently examining options in relation to service providers and cost.
Meath: No webcasting and not possible in current council chamber.
Offaly: No webcasting
Westmeath: No webcasting
Wexford: No webcasting and proposal rejected by senior management
Wicklow: Provides real time captioning and live text streaming, which they believe is more comprehensive and better value for money. Abandoned live streaming because of low viewing figures and cost.
Clare: No webcasting but the matter is being considered.
Cork City Council: No regular webcasting but has been done on special occasions.
Cork County: No webcasting, not permitted under standing orders.
Kerry: No webcasting and would require changes to their standing orders.
Limerick City & County: No webcasting. “Embryonic” discussions of offering podcasting service.
Tipperary: No webcasting but matter being considered by a committee and significant research has been undertaken.
Waterford City & County: No webcasting as cost prohibitive. Will continue to monitor as believe it could have “huge benefits”.
Galway City Council: No webcasting. Has been considered but has not proceeded due to set-up and ongoing costs.
Galway County: No webcasting because of cost of installation.
Leitrim: No webcasting because no demand for the service.
Mayo: No webcasting but meetings audio-recorded. Would be expensive to retrofit video equipment in current council chamber.
Roscommon: Webcasting since 2017
Sligo: No webcasting due to budgetary issues. Streaming to Facebook Live and other options being considered.
Cavan: No webcasting but is “exploring options”.
Donegal: No webcasting due to cost implications.
Monaghan: No webcasting.
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Fox host “unmanned missiles?”…. do missiles usually have a pilot?
@Gareth Lynch:
Unmanned missiles perfectly acceptable terminology.
@Jack Cassady: I have a blow up doll of Trump in my bedroom, I’ve made a few modifications to it for my own pleasure, true story!
@Mike Cantwell: Does it say “yuge”
84 Million those cruise missiles cost that they launched in Syria.. Its all about the money
@Cosmo Kramer: 84 million is nothing to America… unless it’s going to healthcare or social welfare, then it’s too much money
@Cosmo Kramer:
Yep Americans care more about turning countries into car parks than the welfare of their own people all cause of the all mighty dollar.
@Din8rtd: Yes but 84 Million is nice for the company who produces the missiles.. No doubt a purchase order went in the next day to replace the missiles used on Syria..
@Cosmo Kramer: I must admit when I read 59 missiles had been fired I did think there is at least one company in the USA rubbing their hands with glee thinking of the replacement order….
Under Bush they had Operation Desert Storm
Under Trump,it was Operation Dessert Cake.
@Francis Mc Carthy: ohhh that was a tastey 1
Wow, the guy is a certifiable psychopath, ‘I had the most beautiful chocolate cake you’ll ever see.’
@Grainne Abdulaziz: yeah, that’s sound like the words a psychopath would use alright.
Context.
@FPL Thommo: Maybe watch the video again with an adult.
@Grainne Abdulaziz:
I was in a bakery the other day and a guy ordered a chocolate cake.
I phoned the police straight away.
@Jack Cassady: Why?
He went into detail about the lovely cake while also explaining how he’d just illegally fired missiles into a sovereign nation. All on classically dubious American pretexts (Iraq, Vietnam etc) in order to service his paymasters in the military industrial complex. So yeah, slightly on the sociopath scale I would say.
@Grainne Abdulaziz:
Coz the guy said ‘My goodness, that’s a beautiful cake’
A sure sign.
@Jack Cassady: Sign of what?
@Grainne Abdulaziz:
Wot u sed.
@Grainne Abdulaziz: And .. ! His press secretary Sean Spicer said that Trump was trying to “destabilise the region ” . It gets more and more bizarre ??????
Let them eat cake!
I would like to hear more about this cake.
The people should be told.
@Brendan McLaughlin: Me like cake too! Wiv ice-cweam! But sumtimes it hurts my teef :(
@Brendan McLaughlin: Me like cake to! Sumtimes wiv ice-cweam! But sumtimes it hurts my teef :(
@DainBramage: Oops! Me do duble-post, silly Dain! Ha HAHA!
A reality “star” that doesn’t live in one.
“Nobody eats better chocolate than me”
Trump seems to be following Bush and Obama into more middle East conflict and regime change in Syria….Dont think his voters will be happy about that like having Hillary as president….
@John003: Considering Trump voters are thick as sh** I don’t think it’s going to be an issue. The funny thing is that they all thought Trump was going to ‘Make America Great Again’, such naive fools, we could only watch on and laugh at them.
@Grainne Abdulaziz: The funny thing is his followers followed him because he promised improved US-Russian relations, less interference in the Middle East and less military interference throughout the world in general. Instead, US-Russian relations are worse now than under Obama, he has launched direct action against Syria, has continued to attack Yemen, beefed up his military in the waters around Korea and China and threatened unilateral action against North Korea. His followers were warned he was a pathological liar and a buffoon. They denied it. Now the proof is unfolding before their eyes. But it’s OK because he’s building a wall.
@Brian Ó Dálaigh: 100% on the button Brian, and we can add to that his failure to implement the Muslim ban, failure to build the wall and get Mexico to pay for it, and failure to reverse Obamacare, instead retaining it. When the smart people tried to reason with his sheep cheerleaders they were told it was ‘Fake News!’.
What a seriously gullible bunch the pro-Trump supporters were, you don’t see them mouthing off anymore, all gone into hiding.
And what are you doing about North Korea and Assad’s chemical weapons?
@Tim Brennan: Absolutely nothing. But, I’m not in a position to. Unlike the most powerful man on Earth who lied his way to that position and has subsequently betrayed all of his followers by either deliberately going back on his promises or finding out that he is unable to deliver on them (and us ordinary folk were calling BS on his ability to deliver from day one. Instead we were called snowflakes for simply pointing out the obvious).
@Grainne Abdulaziz:
Trump is the president.
Stop melting down.
(4 years to go)
@Jack Cassady: I’d be surprised if he lasts a full year.. after that it’s going to be the kind of outfit that matches the colour of his face.
That whole dessert scene sounds like it’s straight from an evil villain in a James bond parody
Why 5 bloody 9?? .. Surely someone could have done just 1 more..even into the sky.. just to make it 60.
@Brendan Geoghegan: I assume they mapped out the areas they wanted to hit and it added up to 59 missiles.
I doubt the officers are the same ‘and one for luck’ type with missiles that we Irish are with pints.
@David Duffy: Not the case. They launched 60 but one went astray.
@Paraic McDonagh: Was it called Trump?
@Brendan Geoghegan:
A bit of OCD there buddy !
Sounds like he’s “guided by the beauty of our weapons…”
Orange Clown.
@Diarmuid: out of curiosity. If he eats a chocolate cake, would that make him more like a Terry’s Chocolate Orange?
Have there been any further statements or relevant facts to emerge as yet regarding this Cake?
@Brendan McLaughlin: About the fruit cake called Trump?
If this fool every confuses missiles we are truly finished. Nukes could be flying instead of tomahawks. That the world we now live in where a orange coloured pensioners who would not have won to anyone other than Hilary Clinton decides all our faiths. Torture is good but chemical weapons are bad. Assad is worse than even Hitler who never used such weapons on this own people. world history is being rewritten to coverup for trumps incompetence. A salesman now control the world and we still don’t know if he ever paid any taxes.
@leartius:
In the post apocalyptic wasteland the only survivors will lie awake at night pondering that question:
‘Did he pay any taxes though’
@leartius: Hitler didn’t use gas on his own people? Last I heard was that a significant number of people who died in the gas chambers of Hitler’s concentration camps had a German passport. I hope you’re being sarcastic and I simply misinterpreted your post..
@Thorsten Kahlert: I think leartius was simply pointing out the idiotic things that Spicer and Trump said, to make the point that warmongering 45 is unfit for office
@leartius: I did say he reminded me of Sheen in the film, The Dead Zone… A long time ago now…
@Larissa Caroline Nikolaus: I surely hope so.
Wonder how happy the Chinese Premier is going to be, given that Trump has just made him sound like an imbecile.
@Brinster: If I were him I’d be calling the acting president of South Korea to do a deal over NK that excludes the US, reminding him that if the US get involved it’s SK that will suffer most…. Seoul will take one hell of a battering defending the US…
Am I the only one who likes this guy?
@FPL Thommo:
No, the majority of American love Donald as well as 70% of Irish people and 655 of Europeans.
The Chinese love him, there’s many of them.
@FPL Thommo: I thought I would like him but the level of craziness is well below what I expected.
He has disappointed me, they need either coke him up some more or fire him and put that Spicer guy in charge.
He has no concept of the weight of his actions be them big or small. Im surprised he didnt exclaim “Your fired!” In giving the order.
@Warmfartrises: Nixon was worse in office after mixing his tablets with booze…
Well done Trump. You have my respect.
Oh America what an utter imbecile you have voted as president. Leader of the free world my hol* .
@Seamus Grant:
Count your blessings Hilary Clinton wasn’t elected or America would be doomed.
@Jack Cassady: America is doomed with the chocolate orange at the helm.
@Seamus Grant: Nothing free about it…
“Let them eat cake” Marie Antoinnette on seeing masses of starving peasant children. 750,000 women were left widows due to the Iraq war. This interview is utterly appalling.
Oh my word. Unbelievable.What next. God help America and the world
@Mariette van der Walt: A trade war as that is the best way to start a world war?
I can’t stand this guy but in fairness this seems more and slip of the tongue
@Barry C Mc Govern: Exactly the sort of slip of the tongue you don’t want someone with the nuclear codes to have.
@Barry C Mc Govern: If it happens once it’s forgivable but when it happens at regular intervals it becomes quite concerning. As president of the USA he has to choose his words very carefully. He can’t afford to slip his tongue all the time or he’s going to find himself on a very slippery slope.
America thanks a bunch for launching this complete imbecile on the rest of us. You should hang your heads in shame. Chocolate cake me arse!!
On the radio today, I heard Mr. Sean Spicer described by an author today as “profoundly ignorant” regarding his Hitler comments. Accurate.
@Anthony Byrne: Spicer is really cute though, I’d love to be in a Spicy sandwich between him and The Donald!
@Mike Cantwell: Jaysus Mike. I have no clue what you’re getting at.
“Let them eat cake”Marie Antoinette on seeing starving masses of peasant children.750000 widows in Iraq because of the war. This interview is appalling!
Oh America what an utter imbecile you have voted as president. Leader of the free world my hol* .
Mmmm Chocolate missiles (drool). -Homer
Russia can compete and launched missiles to isis from over 1000km from Caspian Sea to IS targets in Syria btw
The dessert plate Trump was eating off and the silver fork in his mouth were all made in China.Chinese premier sat watching Trump get Chinese fok in his mouth the headline should read. The retired for brandy and cigars where Trump begged China for car batteries to keep his automotive industry alive as America have no lead for ammo or cars. Raising his made in China brandy crystal glass to his mouth the Chinese premier enquired if Trump would be renewing his order for made in China toupees and opening the Chinese diplomatic case revealed the latest sample for the president to try on.
Says something he was able to eat and hold it down after launching 59 spears of hell at a target he wasn’t even sure where it was. I couldn’t.
Had a boss in Asia once. Yank. Guy was a piece of work everybody hated him and he hated everybody but liked me cos was Irish and could drink at least well enough to keep pace with him. One time we were in Muddy Murphy’s on Orchard Road near Fo’Flo’saHo’s there and he was well on told me he’d been in Vietnam he’d be the right age and I also well on asked him had he killed m/any. He said “Thousands”. Turned out he was a missile operator on a cruiser. Dialled in the numbers and punched the Button. Asked him was he troubled by it he said No. Hated himself and drinking himself to death though. Had to carry him back to his hotel again like Forrest Gump
@John O’Driscoll: Wish it was a spoof m8.
No it’s true. Why would it not be? Thousands of young men of his generation were destroyed by Vietnam they only died inside not outside though.
Over the desert or over dessert lol.
@Alois Irlmaier: Ha ha! Dat funny! Wait, me no get it :(
@Grainne Abdulaziz: That’s ok, sleep on it lol.
Trump is a bozo
have your say