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Search on for Irish family of pioneering American artist

An exhibition on her fascinating work is in Ireland for the first time.

THE SEARCH IS on for the Irish family of two artists whose work is now on show in Dublin.

The artists, Wilhelmina Weber Furlong and her husband Thomás Furlong, are a fascinating pair – and Wilhelmina all the more as she was both an artist and a woman ahead of her time.

Now their art is on show for the first time in Ireland thanks to family member Clint Weber. And as he is in Ireland for the launch of the exhibition, he is hoping that the Irish family of the pair (Furlong’s father was Irish) might make themselves known. 

Thomás and Wilhelmina were “madly in love”, Weber says. “Tom was the grandson of John, formerly of Ireland and Mary Fitzgerald of Scotland.”

Some of the artwork on show is by Furlong, and includes paintings of his wife. However, to date no relatives of the pair have come forward, and it is hoped that the exhibition might be a chance for them to reveal themselves. 

Who was Wilhelmina Weber Furlong?

The exhibition, which has opened at the Irish Georgian Society on Dublin’s South William Street, is chiefly dedicated to the work of Wilhelmina, with the addition of some paintings of her husband’s.

Wilhelmina is considered the first female American modernist painter. The modernist movement saw artists embrace a more experimental side to their work.

Rather than being slaves to history or tradition, modernist artists took their own approach – think of Pablo Picasso and his embrace of cubism, or Willem de Kooning, an artist who never stayed ‘on trend’. Wilhelmina was friendly with them both.  

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Wilhelmina was an avid traveller, spending time in Paris and Mexico City. After her travels, in 1913, she opened one of the first modernist painters’ art studios and gallery at 3 Washington Square North in Manhattan, New York. It was called the Yellow Shop, and was a place where the public could see what modernist painters like her were creating.

This might seem like something small – opening a shop to display her wares – but it was significant. This was not a simple time for female artists. When she began her career, women were not allowed to show their work in public alongside men, and it was up to women like Wilhelmina to bring about the change.

As a student in the early 1890s, she was one of the first women activists allowed to exhibit artwork alongside men.

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‘If she were a man, she’d be an Old Master’

Weber-Furlong’s grand nephew Clint Weber, who is the curator and the caretaker of all of Wilhelmina’s work, is responsible for bringing the exhibition to Ireland. Weber’s father was left with the couple’s paintings and belongings, which he passed on to Clint. 

“If she were a man, she would be an old master,” says Weber when TheJournal.ie takes a look around the exhibition with him. He says the paintings in Dublin represent one third of the actual paintings by Wilhelmina and her husband that he owns. ”She’s among the first woman to exhibit alongside men.”

Weber says that Wilhelmina couldn’t take on a feminine name, so always painted under Weber, then later Weber Furlong. “So she took on the name and she always painted as Weber where people didn’t know if she was male or female,” he says.

Wilhelmina Weber Furlong was born in 1878, and passed away in 1962. “She started painting at a very young age for the family business, which was illustrating sale items,” Clint Weber explained.

She began painting young, aged around 12 or 13, and went on to study at the St Louis Academy, which is now Washington University. She went to Paris in the 1890s, and after that went to Mexico, during the Mexican revolution.

When she returned from Mexico, she set up the studio in Manhattan. “There was only one other modernist studio that was about eight years prior to that,” says Weber. “So this was the first place that a person could go in New York City and see a modernist paint.”

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In the exhibition in Dublin are two different articles about Weber Furlong in 1914, focusing on how she went to Mexico, and her role in the gender revolution. They demonstrate how Wilhelmina was, as Clint Weber puts it, “very ahead of her time”.

She lived with her husband for three years before they married, for example. 

Thomás, who was a muralist, “spoke seven languages and played the concert piano”, says Clint. His family weren’t entirely happy with him marrying Wilhelmina. 

Clint Weber is particularly taken by how pioneering Wilhelmina was. “We’ve all heard of Georgia O’Keeffe. Well, when this woman started painting, Georgia was two years old,” he says of her.

Or Mexico, you have Diego Rivera and Frida Kahlo – Frieda was probably not even born, Diego would have been five or six [when Wilhelmina was active]. 

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Part of his work is showing how talented Wilhelmina was, and finding a more elevated position for her in art history.

It’s not uncommon for female artists to have to do this type of work, given that it was harder for them to reach the levels their male counterparts did, due to social norms. 

But Clint points out that in her time, Wilhelmina was successful – as evidenced by the large newspaper spreads dedicated to her in the 1910s. So for Clint, part of the work is “positioning her back where she’s been positioned in the history of ours, because she was she was popular for so long of a period of time”. 

For Clint, the exhibition “represents her return to Europe”. He is now hoping to get in touch with the family of Furlong, so they can see the legacy of both him and his wife. 

Clint has put a huge amount of work into their story, spending years digging through archives. Things really began to take off when he met Mona Blocker Garcia of the International Women’s Foundation in Marfa, Texas. When Blocker Garcia found out about the art that Weber owned, she encouraged him to put them on show. 

For Blocker Garcia, the visit is notable because 2019 is the hundredth anniversary of the right of American women to vote. “This woman was very involved in that,” explains Blocker Garcia. “She was a suffragette. That’s fantastic. So she was really, you know, she was so brilliant.”

“You see that she represents the struggles of American women,” adds Clint.

Among Clint’s possessions is a note written by Wilhelmina, which he believes was her attempt to show that she wanted her story to be remembered. “This was written by her hand shortly before she died,” he says of the note, and he believes it shows “she desperately wanted to tell her story”.

“We ended up fulfilling her last request,” says Clint. 

Wilhelmina and Thomas’s work was given to Clint and now he’s determined to spread the word about them across the world. 

“This was a gift entrusted to me, and my father would say, ‘I don’t know what to do [with the paintings]‘. He had to work for a living and didn’t know what to do.

“And he says, ‘maybe you’ll figure it out’.”

Wilhelmina Weber Furlong exhibition is presented by Clint Weber, director and curator of The Weber Furlong Collection of Modern Art, Mona Blocker Garcia of the International Woman’s Foundation and artist Martin De Porres Wright, in association with the Irish Georgian Society at Irish Georgian Society City Assembly House, South William Street until 29 August 2019.

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5 Comments
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    Mute littleone
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:21 PM

    The current arrangement has served the state well. Served the political elite well not the state. That’s why people are not happy. No change just same old thing. Doesn’t matter who was in government. Politicians interests first and the state second.

    247
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    Mute Keith Harding
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:39 PM

    The old Turkeys Joan and Enda won’t vote for Christmas. But electoral ‘Christmas’ is coming, sooner than they think. The electorate will have their turkey, who we fatten up for the next ‘electoral christmas” I don’t know, as Long as its not Lucinda and friends, FF, or FG I will be happy

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    Mute Jason
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:55 PM

    You’d be happy with Sinn Fein and loony independents like Clare Daly and Mick Wallace? Are you quite sure about that?

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:12 PM

    Daly and Wallace were instrumental in exposing th endemic corruption in our police force, its hard to think of a more vital role that they could have provided in their position as public representatives.

    What have you done yourself lately for your fellow citizens ‘jason’?

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    Mute Jason
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:17 PM

    I’ve done a little – none of your business really but a lot of people, like me, volunteer and contribute to society in many ways. And not sure why you feel the need for parenthesis either. Wallace is a known tax dodger and hams caused a lot of harm by not contributing pension payments for former employees.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:24 PM

    What damage have ‘hams’ done?

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:24 PM

    “I’ve done a little – none of your business really”

    You claim to have done something for your fellow citizen, but when your fellow citizen asks what you’ve done, its none of their business?

    Well aren’t you just the epitome of the typical FGer. Do you help write inda speeches by any chance?

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    Mute Jason
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:26 PM

    People volunteer and contribute to society in many ways. And I have. Not for glory or praise – just to help where I can. I don’t need to shout it from the rooftops.

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:36 PM

    “I don’t need to shout it from the rooftops.”

    No, you just need to tell a fellow citizen that its none of their business.

    i think we all know how much you contribute, given your comments.

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    Mute Jason
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:38 PM

    And what would that be? You have no idea. And you resort to attacks on the person then. Good man, go hide behind your fake twitter account.

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    Mute Jason
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:39 PM

    It’s not your business what I do with my spare time or what I organise in my work to help charities.

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    Mute Moonshine
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:40 PM

    Were jamming – what to you in your skate time? Suck your mamas milk still? Grow up you utter plonker.

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:44 PM

    You post a comment like that, and then tell ME to grow up?

    Dear oh dear, its hard to stomach that y taxes are subsidising your college education.

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    Mute Jason
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:46 PM

    I work full time my man.

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:52 PM

    So, thats what you do for your fellow citizen, you pay tax?

    Or is it none of your fellow citizens business what you do for them because you cannot reveal your identity i.e. at night you stick on your red y-fronts over your pyjamas and patrol your neighbourhood fighting crime?

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    Mute Jason
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 2:39 PM

    If you really want to know so badly, add me on twitter, send me a dm and I’ll tell you privately. I don’t feel the need to tell the world via the journal.

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 2:49 PM

    I thought it was ‘none of my business’? You sure changed your tune.

    I see from your twitter account that your important humanitarian work for your fellow human beings includes supporting the state of Israel?

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 8:16 PM

    I’m drafting an email now to every TD and Senator asking them to put pressure on the government to reconsider the decision on the minimum number of seats.

    Ideally I’d prefer an alternative electoral system (preferably the one used in New Zealand) but at least a five to seven seat system of constituencies would cut down a little on the localism and parochialism in Irish politics. Also I think too many Irish people are so used to the localism that they’d vote against an alternative electoral system.

    Rather than ranting on here where it won’t be seen, I’d recommend you all do the same. Email TDs and Senators and ask them to put pressure on the government.

    If anyone else wants to email all TDs and Senators, then here is the way:
    http://www.contact.ie/contact-national-politicians

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 8:17 PM

    Also the report in question from the Constitutional Convention is available at the below link if anyone wants to read it before emailing:

    https://www.constitution.ie/AttachmentDownload.ashx?mid=fdf70670-030f-e311-a203-005056a32ee4

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    Mute Oliver Moran
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 9:05 PM

    Ryan, more power to you. If you haven’t done so already, sign up for email updates at http://www.2nd-republic.ie

    We’ll be holding a meeting in February, it would be great to have you come along.

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    Mute Dermot Ryan
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 10:02 PM

    we have had two referenda that I can remember under the current regime – 4 actually – Seanad , fiscal and children’s
    How about we write into the constitution that for one day every year there will be an election day – for referenda AND Satisfaction with the government – they loose that one then we general election again
    Or we could introduce a simple law in the Constitution that if the government fails to pass a referendum then there is a general election automatically – The Seanad would have been a perfect time for Enda to go as he was so obviously out of touch with the people as indeed were his pollsters !

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    Mute Dermot Ryan
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 10:25 PM

    *3

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    Mute Em Ní Mhurchú
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:14 PM

    It’s time…..time to be heard. Time to be counted. Time to make a difference. Time to say enough is enough. Time to stop muttering and grumbling. It’s time for action…now.

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    Mute Jason
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:42 PM

    And what to you propose? It’s easy to say it’s time for action. You may not like her but at least Lucinda creighton is doing something. What are you doing?

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:56 PM

    What is Lucinda doing,she is no different than her former buddies in FG.Before she got kicked out she said the 2 most important men in her life was her husband and Enda her Taoiseach.

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:07 PM

    Lucinda?? LOL!

    Were it not for the tragic events and embarrasment that led up to FG being dragged kicking and screaming to legislate for the X case, lucinda would still be exclaiming that she has two men in her life, he husband and her taoiseach (five if you also include the father, son and holy ghost)

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    Mute Paul Carey
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 3:17 PM

    She couldn’t be any worse than the alternative left wing brigade. She is showing some leadership at least, which is more than can be said for the deputy leader of Sinn Fein who, when confronted with scandal after scandal, showed no leadership.

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    Mute Dermot Ryan
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 3:40 PM

    Thanks Paul for the confirmation that Lucinda is still cool with Eirie Or !

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    Mute Grim Reaper
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 7:31 PM

    The Blueshirt Tea Party.. get a grip……..

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:40 PM

    Excellent article Oliver.

    What we have in Ireland is not a democracy. It is even far less so since enda kenny installed the 4 person EMC to call the shots, in breach of our constitution. At least we managed to halt his grubby little powergrab by defeating his atttempt to abolish the Seanad.

    We definitely need the power to sack governments if they breach their manifestos i.e the terms that they are gifted power by the people.

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    Mute Jason
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:44 PM

    What part of the constitution is in breach by the emc?

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:49 PM

    Article 28.4.2 of the Irish Constitution: “The Government shall meet and act as a collective authority, and shall be collectively responsible for the Departments of State administered by the members of the Government.”

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    Mute Jason
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:56 PM

    And they do that – its called cabinet meetings. They happen quite regularly.

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    Mute Tim Kearney
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:00 PM

    Clown

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:01 PM

    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-how-gang-of-four-runs-the-country-1.2038643

    “Article 28.4.2 of the Constitution is absolutely clear: “The Government shall meet and act as a collective authority.” There is no subclause that says this collective authority can be devolved to a subgroup with an arbitrary, unaccountable membership. That the membership of the EMC is indeed arbitrary is confirmed by Howlin in his Sunday Business Post article. He tells us that “political advisers attend” but that sometimes they don’t…….But, says Howlin, this doesn’t matter, because the EMC doesn’t have any powers of its own. It is just an ordinary Cabinet subcommittee: “All decisions at the EMC are referred to the full Government for decision.”The repetition of “decision” here is telling. The full Cabinet gets to “decide” on “decisions” that have already been made at the EMC.
    This, presumably inadvertently, is a classic description of rubberstamping. And we know this to be so: to give just one example, the recent changes to the water charges were reported by every media outlet, on the basis of official briefings, to have been “signed off” by the EMC. I would like Brendan Howlin to give us one example of the Cabinet un-signing off a decision made by the EMC.”

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    Mute Jason
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:13 PM

    Tim – good argument. Very constructive and well thought out.

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    Mute Dermot Ryan
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:43 PM

    Were 28.7 should also be quoted – minimum of seven elected members of Dail Eireann – The E.M.C. has only 4 !

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    Mute Denito
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 2:01 PM

    Thank goodness that we retained the Seanad: without it, there would be no check on the damage being wrought by out of control seagulls.

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 2:30 PM

    “Yond Leo has a lean and hungry look”

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 8:00 PM

    @ Were Jammin:

    Previous governments (e.g. the Rainbow government of the 1990s and the FF/Green/PDs) have seen the leaders of the different parties meet before the Cabinet as a way of resolving any political issues before the reached the Cabinet table. Do you also think those meetings were unconstitutional?

    Also there have been and continue to be many Cabinet sub-groups on certain issues. Do you also consider these to be unconstitutional?

    Furthermore if SF actively consider the EMC to be unconstitutional, why have they not taken a Supreme Court challenge?

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 9:01 PM

    “Furthermore if SF actively consider the EMC to be unconstitutional, why have they not taken a Supreme Court challenge?”

    I’d imagine that, due to cabinet confidentiality, they would not be able to get their hands on the information they’d need for their case.

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 9:30 PM

    The EMC isn’t the cabinet so the documents presented to it are unlikely to be covered by cabinet confidentiality provisions.

    Also I noticed you declined to answer if the other two scenarios were also – in your opinion – unconstitutional.

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    Mute Dermot Ryan
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 10:27 PM

    unlikely isn’t good enough Ryan and that is the point – what documents do these unelected people have access to – totally illegally , it’s members will be of great interest to the New Government !

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Jan 4th 2015, 12:22 AM

    Oh come on – now you are clutching at straws or just smoking something… These “unelected people” are likely to have access to these documents already given that they are special advisers to government ministers. In fact they are likely the authors of some of these documents.

    And what is this “New Government” you speak of Dermot? As in the next government?

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    Mute Dermot Ryan
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    Jan 4th 2015, 12:51 AM

    They are unelected Citizens – if they see documents then everyone sees them – Equality in law guaranteed in the Constitution – Don’t try and dress them up as something they are not – They are a power grab that is anti-constitutional – Nothing allows for a cabinet within a cabinet in our Constitution – It is technically illegal and a judge got away with a technicality for possessing Child Porn – So technicalities have to be adhered to or the process is rendered illegal – this is one of the very founding principles of law and covers a huge range of things including inadmissible evidence for one !
    And don’t think for one second that the powers that be don’t know it either !

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    Mute Dave Doyle
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:23 PM

    Why would they upset the cosy gravy train. Why would they want to change a system that allows them to lie as they please, do as they want, never have to answer legitimate questions in the Dail, award themselves huge salaries and obscene pensions. Make themselves out as the masters of those that elect them. Reform is long overdue. The present system only serves them and not the people.

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    Mute Denis Reidy
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:28 PM

    The senior civil servants run the system and enable it. Politicians are just there in turn by term to sup the gravy.

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    Mute Dermot Ryan
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:24 PM

    The State is no longer the people …This is a very important point that people must understand – It should be government by the people for the people but the State has through the historical tendency of nepotism in-bred itself into an enemy of the Nation …… Hence the turmoil !

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:20 PM

    No chance of reform with the man currently in power who promised a new way of government. Different name but no difference once the top table has been reached.

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    Mute Jason
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:43 PM

    He gave us the opportunity to change – we declined when we voted to keep the Seanad.

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:43 PM

    Change comes slowly and yes the present government parties did advocate changes as did all of the other pre-election parties. Some people have argued since that local government has served us well since the 1890′s so why change it now. One reason was that county & town councils were losing the run of themselves spending money that they didn’t own and running up unsustainable debts on rediculous things like multi story carparks in rural towns. Why would we trust councillors who simply put party politics first. Isn’t it obvious that with low election turnouts ordinary people have lost confidence in politicians whose interest it is to line their own pockets at the expense of everyone else. Thank goodness the present government saw sense in reforming local government ant allowing citizens a voice in local government still slowly trying to manage the change….give it a chance I say.

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    Mute Jason
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:54 PM

    Well said Chris. Local government has been reformed, we have less councillors now, less expenses and more efficiency. LPT, as you much as people may disagree, is a much needed resource to expand the tax base and ensure that more people contribute – but this needs to be reformed too, and taken away from property price and linked to property size, taking in geographical location.

    Reform of our tax code is needed urgently – and this government are taking steps to do that. The biggest reform is needed in the civil service and for that to happen, unions need to start living in the real world.

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:15 PM

    “LPT, as you much as people may disagree, is a much needed resource to expand the tax base and ensure that more people contribute ”

    Is that why our 2013 LPT was handed to bondholders? Or why our household charge was spent on water meters which weren’t needed?

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    Mute Jason
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:24 PM

    Is that why many councils can afford reductions in lpt payments for householders this year? As usual were jamming, your hyperbole makes no sense.

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:38 PM

    You noticed I included ’2013′ in my comment, no?

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    Mute Dermot Mc Loughlin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 2:18 PM

    The Labrador party*…. assured us that they….”are not content to work a broken system, but a Government that will change the way the system works, and be prepared to change the system itself if necessary. We need to do away with the crony capitalism that allowed a small group of elites bring this country to it knees.”…

    No point asking at what point in their stewardship of a broken and corrupt system are they going to bring about this monumental change, as usual power corrupts and maintaining their seat on the gravy train took precedence over accountable and representative government.

    * – autocorrect but apt seeing as Labour are mere lapdogs to the FG regime and the crony capitalists they once despised.

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    Mute Alan Lawlor
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 2:25 PM

    The people wanted a reform of the Seanad. People wanted MORE power to the Seanad to make it more meaningful. Few people wanted it abolished, particularly when they realised it would concentrate more power for Enda.

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 8:32 PM

    Tell us the top three changes you’d make to our political/electoral system then Kerry? I see so many people complain that changes aren’t taking place but when they are asked what changes they want, they have no idea whatsoever. Change and reform are such vague demands when the individuals demanding them have no idea of the changes or reforms they seek.

    Here are just three of mine:

    1) Change the electoral system – to something similar to the one they use in New Zealand.
    2) Allow non-TDs to serve in Cabinet as Ministers and require any TD appointed to Cabinet to step down from their TD jobs.
    3) Make it so that the Dáil is a proper lawmaking chamber as opposed to the showhouse/playground it currently is.

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 8:34 PM

    “The people wanted a reform of the Seanad. People wanted MORE power to the Seanad to make it more meaningful. Few people wanted it abolished, particularly when they realised it would concentrate more power for Enda.”

    The result of the referendum was 52:48. With that kind of indecisive result and the low turnout, I don’t think there are all that many outcomes that can be derived. Had a few thousand more abolitionist voters turned out or had the vote been held in the first year of this government, the Seanad could easily be gone.

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    Mute Dermot Mc Loughlin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:19 PM

    “The current arrangement has served the State….(read politicians)… well since 1948.”

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:20 PM

    And those politicians sons and daughters Dermot since then….

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    Mute Dermot Mc Loughlin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:48 PM

    Sons, daughters, cousins, best friends, business associates, cronies, those that donate to parties, Brown envelope manufacturers……..

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 7:46 PM

    @ Dermot: Since 1937 rather than since 1948 I would think – i.e. 1937 when the Constitution and the current system was approved.

    I think there was some change in 1948 in terms of the number of seats in each constituency (I think there were a few seven seat constituencies), however I haven’t found anything yet online.

    @ Kerry: The next US Presidential election looks likely to be a Bush verses a Clinton. Ireland is far from unique in having dynasties in politics.

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    Mute TR909
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:16 PM

    A well written article. Our government are a facetious bunch.

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    Mute Dermot Ryan
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:10 PM

    Well done Mr. Moran – Very Impressive – are you in contact with Diarmuid O’Flynn – if not you should be if you talk of the future !

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    Mute ISBA
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:02 PM

    Diarmuid O’Flynn is now working full time with Luke Ming Flanagan so the people will be well represented in Europe.

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    Mute Dermot Ryan
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:04 PM

    Excellent News – didn’t hear that – Ireland is beginning to re-forge its heroes – a great time to be alive !

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    Mute Denito
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:59 PM

    An article on political reform that doesn’t mention the rejection by the people of Seanad abolition is quite simply pie-in-the-sky.

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    Mute john doe
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 6:44 PM

    people want reform of the dail and the political system. Not abolishment of the senead.

    The referendum on abolishing the senead was a cynical attempt to use the genuine hunger for reform to make a bad situation worse.

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    Mute Brendan Hughes
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:27 PM

    I agree fully with you. The current setup has distanced itself from the people. Serving itself not the public. The civil service is no longer a public service, accountability is nonexistant and failure is rewarded. No longer do the ruling parties treat us like citizens, we are now customers with no consumer rights. They know we wont accept this anymore and will refuse any reform which dilutes their power.

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    Mute Thomas Newell
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:13 PM

    Political Reform is like turkeys deciding if other turkeys shud vote for christmas….

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    Mute Joseph O'Regan
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:43 PM

    The establishment do not want change, the parasitical political parties are very happy the way things are.

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    Mute Bobby Phelan
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 2:23 PM

    Get out on the streets so guys so ure anger.no more ff fg labour ure sacked

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    Mute Sean J. Troy
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 2:01 PM

    The Dail should definitely be separated from the cabinet. No brainer there. American politics get a lot wrong, but separation of powers isn’t one of them.

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:56 PM

    ‘We need the power to sack governments’…..depends rather on who decides on who the ‘WE’ is. As it stands the electorate decide by a majority mandate which party leads the government for a fixed period between elections. So who says that sacking a government will lead to improvement.

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    Mute Cowenwatch
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:49 PM

    ” So who says that sacking a government will lead to improvement”!

    I say it would certainly teach the incoming Government and Ministers that if they don’t behave themselves while in office they’re out on their ear like the last lot.

    Article 48 of our Constitution once gave the people the right to call a Minister up if they were abusing their position while in office. That article, along with Article 47 which gave the people the right to call a Referendum, was altered by a Fine Gael Government.

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 8:44 PM

    @ Cowenwatch: Those articles were in the Irish Free State Constitution, a very different constitution to our current 1937 Constitution penned by de Valera.

    Also it was a Cumman na nGaedhal government as opposed to an FG one. Yes CnaG did later merge with others to become FG but it is important to be accurate with facts.

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    Mute Michael Sands
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 6:04 PM

    Who believes liars?
    Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me but then what do you say when you end up being fooled the whole time them for years???

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    Mute amos brearly
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 2:36 PM

    The Seanad is a chocolate teapot.

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 12:57 PM

    ‘We need the power to sack governments’…..depends rather on who decides on who the ‘WE’ is. As it stands the electorate decide by a majority mandate which party leads the government for a fixed term of years between elections. So who says that sacking a government will lead to improvement.

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:19 PM

    True democracy (and this was pointed out to you before) requires that the party voted into government stays true to its manifesto. That way the citizens choose democratically the policies which they will have to live with for that fixed term. Lying your way to power and then ignoring the backlash is not democratic.

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    Mute Jason
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:34 PM

    Conditions change – economically and politically. Socially too. What was said 5 years ago or 50 years ago may not be relevant as time goes by. Things can’t remain the same.

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    Mute Jason
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:37 PM

    If FG were ejected on a manifesto of never legislating for abortion or same sex marriage and then actually did – would you consider that undemocratic? They would’ve broken their manifesto, so by your logic, the government are behaving undemocratically.

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:41 PM

    Jason, the government legislated for a referendum that was passed by the people democratically. So, no, it was not undemocratic for them to do so. There is also no requirement for them to hold a referendum on same sex marriage.

    Try doing your homework.

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    Mute Moonshine
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:43 PM

    What referendum?

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    Mute Moonshine
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:45 PM

    It wasn’t in their manifesto to do so. Undemocratic. Down with that. Water charges, however, were in FG manifesto.

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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:48 PM

    Its undemocratic to legislate for a referendum passed by the people, whether in their manifesto or not?

    Oh boy.

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    Mute Denito
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 2:03 PM

    If there was to be some statutory footing for a measure to get rid of governments that don’t stick to their manifestos then it would be impossible to form a coalition government.

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 2:33 PM

    Jam-man, surely you realise by now that the electorate here since the 1980′s do not trust single parties to form a government. Which means that they can waffle all they like pre-election about manifestos and five point plans. Reality kicks in when parties enter into a coalition government and have to compromise on earlier plans.

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    Mute amos brearly
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 1:53 PM

    The loony left are out in force today.

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    Mute Mike Clinton
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 2:18 PM

    Let’s not be be discriminatory and forget to include the condescending self righteous right.

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    Mute amos brearly
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 2:41 PM

    Or the centre. Not all black and white.

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    Mute Dermot Ryan
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 10:07 PM

    On one side there is the Looney left and on the other side there is the Crazy Capitalists …
    the best way to understand the difference is to study Hitler …
    he started out as a Socialist – infrastructure programmes and mass employment – then on the 1 of September 1939 he went pure Right wing and invaded Poland !

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    Mute Dermot Ryan
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 10:37 PM

    I am referring to Hitler in an international sense – isn’t it a wonder with all the spies in the world and we only found out about the holocaust after the war !

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    Mute Paul Roche
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    Jan 3rd 2015, 11:59 PM

    What right does an unelected Constitutional Convention have to demand their recommendations be implemented?
    Anyone who agrees to get on board a government led showboat can expect to get wet when it capsizes, that’s politics.
    Stop wasting our time with stupid quango quarrels.

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    Mute Mark O'Hagan
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    Jan 4th 2015, 1:52 AM

    When you are in opposition, you can promise whatever you want – knowing that you can’t deliver until you become elected to government. FG has pretty much been the permanent opposition since the foundation of the State and when they get into government exhibit the awareness of rabbits caught in headlights.

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