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Over 1,500 new fires ignited in Amazon rainforest, official data shows

43,000 troops are have been made available to combat the fires.

brazil-amazon-fires A fire burns a field on a farm in the Nova Santa Helena municipality in Brazil Leo Correa / PA Images Leo Correa / PA Images / PA Images

HUNDREDS OF NEW fires have begun in the Amazon rainforest in Brazil, official data showed yesterday.

Some 1,663 new fires were ignited between Thursday and Friday, according to the country’s National Institute for Space Research (INPE).

The new data came a day after president Jair Bolsonaro authorised the deployment of the country’s military to fight the fires and crack down on criminal activity in the vast region.

Seven states have requested the army’s help in the Amazon, where more than 43,000 troops are based and available to combat fires, officials said.

Firefighters and planes are also being deployed.

Six aircraft, including two Hercules C-130s equipped to carry 12,000 litres of water each have been sent to Rondonia to fight the fires. They are expected to be joined by 30 firefighters on Sunday.

Multiple fires billowing huge plumes of smoke into the air were seen across a vast area of the northwestern state of Rondonia on Friday.

Several residents in the capital Porto Velho reported that what appeared to be light clouds hanging over the city of half a million people was actually smoke from the blazes that had scorched swaths of land and left tree trunks smoldering on the ground.

“I’m very worried because of the environment and health,” Delmara Conceicao Silva told AFP.

“I have a daughter with respiratory problems and she suffers more because of the fires.”

the-rainforest-continues-to-burn-in-brazil Aerial scenes show fires in various regions of the Jamari Forest Reserve near Porto Velho, Rondonia Dario Oliveira / PA Images Dario Oliveira / PA Images / PA Images

The fires in the world’s largest rainforest have triggered a global uproar, and are a major topic of concern at the G7 meeting in Biarritz in southern France.

Official figures show 78,383 forest fires have been recorded in Brazil this year, the highest number of any year since 2013.

Experts say the clearing of land during the long dry season to make way for crops or grazing, has aggravated the problem.

More than half of the fires are in the massive Amazon basin, where more than 20 million people live.

US President Donald Trump and British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, both attending the G7 summit, have offered their countries’ assistance in fighting the fires.

“Any help is welcome in respect to the fires,” Brazil’s Defence Minister Fernando Azevedo e Silva told reporters on Saturday.

The blazes have stirred outrage globally, with thousands of people protesting in Brazil and Europe on Friday. More demonstrations are planned in Brazil today.

Environmental specialists say the fires are coming amid increasing deforestation in the region, which in July took place at a rate four times that of the same month in 2018, according to data from INPE.

- © AFP 2019

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    Mute Scrap Croke Park1
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:57 AM

    Surely Judge Kearns ruling violates Article 40.1 of our constitution

    “Article 40.1 All citizens shall, as human persons, be held equal before the law”

    Yet he says David Hall is not entitled to challenge the prom notes but a TD is?

    Doesn’t seem equal to me

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    Mute Gerard Daly
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:20 AM

    My understanding of the ruling is that the case was taken questioning whether the Dail should voted on the prom notes. As Mr Hall would not have had a vote in the Dail he has no right to challenge it. Whether this is right or wrong is another matter.

    58
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    Mute Harvey Wallbanger
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:56 AM

    Fair play to David Hall, but any excuse would be used to dismiss his case.
    The treason against the Irish people runs deep.

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    Mute Chris Meudec
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:10 PM

    @Gerard, I don’t get this.

    So if the government broke the law with respect to the Dail, the only persons who can mount a challenge are Dail members? Really?

    Does this apply in other bodies where only members can bring matters to court?

    69
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    Mute Dermot Purcell
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:32 PM

    another crap judgement handed down the political classes these guys certainly do not forget who appoints them

    66
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    Mute Peter Nolan
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    Jan 31st 2013, 2:10 PM

    Okay, this is the principle of the way these things work — you need to be an involved party to bring a suit. You can’t sue the guy that leaves three doors down for doing something to the guy who leaves four doors down.

    When challenging laws this means that you either need to be the person directly effected by the laws or a recognized representative of those directly effected by the laws. In America, recently, for instance, part of the complication of court cases challenging marriage equality laws (or, conversely bans) is the court determining which groups are entitled to declare themselves as valid representatives of the people involved.

    What this ruling says, effectively, is that by the taking this case David Hall is claiming the mantle of being a representative of the interests of the Irish people generally, and not just himself specifically. But he has no standing as a representative of the Irish people. Only someone who has been granted by the Irish people permission to represent them could do so. I suspect the mention of being a TD is only an example rather than the only possible way to meet the requirement.

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    Mute Glyn Carragher
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    Jan 31st 2013, 2:47 PM

    Orwell said it best: ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL, BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS.
    The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

    20
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    Mute censored
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    Jan 31st 2013, 4:21 PM

    Doesn’t seem right to me, TDs are our representatives. Now it turns out they are a privileged class in law? Where is the accountability!

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    Mute Anna Kirby
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    Jan 31st 2013, 7:07 PM

    Yes you are correct. Will this then be challenged by D Hall

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    Mute Shirley Boshell
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:41 AM

    Seriously!!! He is not a TD but as a citizen of Ireland he is one of the employers of all TDs as am I and I for one stand by David hall.

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    Mute werejammin
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:50 AM

    Well said. We are either a republic, where all citizens be they TDs or not, should have equal access to hold the government to account for their actions, or we are not. Seems the judge is making a challenge of their own….

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    Mute Gearóid O Machain
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:40 PM

    we the people of Ireland had the right to challenge our government repealed by the first government formed after we gained our Independence

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    Mute Nigel O'Neill
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    Jan 31st 2013, 2:30 PM

    Exactly Sarah!

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    Mute Shirley Boshell
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    Jan 31st 2013, 4:29 PM

    Who’s Sarah?

    1
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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:12 AM

    Could make things very uncomfortable for the Government if Mr Hall’s case is successful.

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    Mute Steve Murphy
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:21 AM

    They will tie it up in so much legal mumbo jumbo it ends up costing the tax payer millions just like the case reported on here las week where there is over 20trillion documents,two words “banana republic”

    89
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    Mute damian
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:00 AM

    Heh, perhaps one day people will understand that there are NO rules, precedents, laws, or boundaries of good taste that the Alpha Thugs won’t trample to death their irish citizens in their quest for ever-more power and revenue.

    Mark Twain was correct: no one is safe, anywhere, anytime, from the AlphaThugs.
    -d-

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    Mute Vincent Dolan
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:31 PM

    @Norman- I really do hate always being right. Honestly.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:44 PM

    Vincent please explain you hate being right what are you on about?

    31
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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:53 PM

    Vincent rereading your comment you seem gleeful this debt will be saddled on you,your family and your countrymen.I despair cause of this type of happiness.You do know what a phyric victory is( excuse the spelling)

    35
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    Mute Vincent Dolan
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    Jan 31st 2013, 2:34 PM

    @norman- when last we spoke you were telling me that this case would prove the promissory note was illegal. I suggested it wouldn’t. Resigned to the debt- but far from gleeful. And just having a little fun at your expense!!!

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jan 31st 2013, 3:04 PM

    Vincent i will engage with you but please do not write my comments for me.I never said the” note” was illegal,i said David Hall was bringing an action.That is all i stated no more no less!Try not misrepresent someone just because you disagree with them

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    Mute Frank Cluskey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 3:34 PM

    Jazus Vincent
    resigned are you
    wasan’t the case a while back when you were extolling you great leaders virtues and how he would bring back a fine deal for the people of this country
    he like you is completely full of hot air!

    23
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    Mute Frank Cluskey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 3:56 PM

    if you could maybe talk Enda into resigning you could even help the people of this country

    19
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    Mute censored
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    Jan 31st 2013, 4:23 PM

    Ah Vincent, it looks like the case has been dismissed alright but it hasn’t been judged on its merits. Time will tell whether this can be ruled illegal or not.

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    Mute Vincent Dolan
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    Jan 31st 2013, 7:32 PM

    @frank- I never, ever suggested we were going to get off scot free. Because I don’t reside in the land of make believe like so many on here. And you, Sir. You are no fun any more.

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    Mute Vincent Dolan
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    Jan 31st 2013, 7:32 PM

    @norman- the thread is still up there. You might want to have another wee read of it.

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    Mute Vincent Dolan
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    Jan 31st 2013, 7:33 PM

    @frank- that would be wrong of me. Why would I deprive the Irish nation of their choice of leader?

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    Mute Vincent Dolan
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    Jan 31st 2013, 7:34 PM

    @censored- true enough. You have to wonder whether deep down our Government would welcome a verdict against it. Blame free leverage in Europe.

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    Mute Frank Cluskey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 7:46 PM

    didn’t say scot free vincent
    wasan’t the case a while back when you were extolling you great leaders virtues and how he would bring back a fine deal for the people of this country
    nowhere in that comment did I mention scott free
    your arguements by the day are becoming weaker and weaker and thought you would have done the decent thing and admitted so but you alas are a party before country man
    why didnt anyone in FG explore this route instead of bowing down and becoming the rent boys of fianna fail, its not as if its rocket science. this avenue was always open to them but they declined and it begs the question as to why.
    stroke pulling self serving the lot of them
    as i said before, noonan hasan’t got a clue and it was backed up by a man who would know what hes talking about one of your own peter matthews.
    take the BLUESHIRT off vincent its become dirty over the last two years

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    Mute Frank Cluskey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 7:49 PM

    hahaha
    scot free im still laughing
    he didn’t even come within a million miles
    hahaha

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jan 31st 2013, 8:30 PM

    Vincent the thread is still available,so how come you can’t read what i wrote.I said the courts would decide if the not was legal,not the word if a politician.
    Where did i say the note was illegal!!

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    Mute Frank Cluskey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 8:36 PM

    @norman
    blueshirts have the gift of selective sight, rodgers is the same

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jan 31st 2013, 8:42 PM

    Frank selective sight is one thing, but a blatant lie when it is so easily disproved is another.

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    Mute Frank Cluskey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 8:49 PM

    selective hearing aswell
    do you remember that time a couple of months ago when merket said ireland woulden’t get a deal and enda said we would
    we all heard her but enda didn’t
    hes like a political father dougal maguire

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jan 31st 2013, 8:54 PM

    Sad but so true.At least Dougal was endearing,Enda is well i’ll that up to you.

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    Mute Frank Cluskey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 9:30 PM

    I will say one thing and i mean this
    Enda is a good man and he has a place in politics, I would say he is honest unlike his mates around him. He’s just not a leader. He will always go down in my book as the man who finally stood up to the Catholic Church and if I ever meet him I will shake his hand and thank him.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jan 31st 2013, 9:35 PM

    Frank i have heard Enda when he thought he was out of earshot,so i have my opinion and you have yours and i’ll leave it at that about him.

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    Mute Steve Murphy
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:55 PM

    @frank,you know your stuff Alri couldn’t agree more

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    Mute werejammin
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:45 AM

    Soon as I read ““Justice Kearns dismissed my case on the basis I don’t have standing to take the case that maybe it should be a TD” a voice in my head screamed the name STEPHEN DONNELLY.

    Though I’m not fussy, any TD who represents the Irish people instead of their Partys interests will do.

    113
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    Mute Rory Conway
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:35 AM

    Presumbly the TD would have to have been a TD at the time the notes were signed and therefore was deprived of a vote

    41
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    Mute werejammin
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:50 AM

    Sinn Feins Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin was part of that dail and is a member of a party that withdrew its support for the banking guarantee once it became the blanket guarantee.

    He’ll do nicely.

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    Mute Carcu Sidub
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    Jan 31st 2013, 2:06 PM

    werejammin

    Does he have the balls to £uck Europe, the way they £ucked us?

    One can live in hope that at least one member of the previous Dáil has the courage to stand up for the Irish people, cause the incumbents don’t.

    29
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    Mute Paul Anthony Ward
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    Jan 31st 2013, 3:48 PM

    Since SF voted for the original promissory notes, don’t think Caoimghin O’Caoláin could mount the challenge. Only party that didn’t vote for it was Labour & they’re in Govt now…

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    Mute werejammin
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    Jan 31st 2013, 4:11 PM

    Sinn Fein withdrew their support for the guarantee when a senior member of YOUR party, fianna fail, decided to blanket guarantee all of the debt, a decision that has decimated our country.

    I know this, YOU know this, why the half truths and dishonesty?

    Try harder paul.

    16
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    Mute Coddler O Toole
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    Jan 31st 2013, 4:15 PM

    Paul,

    There was no vote taken in the Dail on the promissory notes so Sinn Fein could not have voted in favour . The absence of a Dail vote is why David Hall took this legal action.

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    Mute seamus mcdermott
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:38 AM

    OK now go find a TD.

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    Mute Lamb
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:52 AM

    Loads of lefties would be happy to raise their hand for that one. Never thought we’d need them but good to restore the balance .

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    Mute Carcu Sidub
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:59 PM

    But I bet it would only be those who were elected to the previous Dáil, where the vote should have taken place.

    They would be the 2 Brians, (oops sorry 1), & Bertie.

    So that’s the Irish citizens £ucked over again by the elected & appointed “elite”.

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    Mute Michael
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    Jan 31st 2013, 2:02 PM

    Best solution would be – David Hall TD

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    Mute shay o'reilly
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    Jan 31st 2013, 3:21 PM

    Micheal , great idea, if he stands I’d vote for him

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    Mute Aisling Brady
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    Jan 31st 2013, 3:48 PM

    Gerry Adams would surely take that one on.

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    Mute Anna Kirby
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    Jan 31st 2013, 7:02 PM

    Who would be the most suitable Td ? We need someone who fully understands the legal challenge, someone who recognises our democratic rights, and someone who will put this country before their own personal / political gain? Only Serious and worthy contenders should apply..

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    Mute Marlon Major
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:11 AM

    I wonder how long it will it take for a definitive answer on the subject? Minutes, hours, days, weeks, months or years? Is Paddy Power giving any odds?

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    Mute Debbie Fahey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:22 AM

    I’d say Marlon on the day of my unborn child’s wedding, Gerry Adam’s son will be telling the nation that a deal is within grasp and it’s only a matter of time and just to keep monitoring the sittee-ation ;)

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    Mute Marlon Major
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:37 AM

    Sorry… My years in Ireland has changed me… I am now an optimistic cynic.

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    Mute Ciaran Dillon
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:18 PM

    Debbie the most depressing aspect of your comment is the thought that all those years from now there might still be people voting for the Adams family.

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    Mute Nigel O'Neill
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    Jan 31st 2013, 2:27 PM

    This ruling is incredulous and further proof that the justice system in Ireland is also warped.
    David Hall took this case as a citizen on behalf of citizens, but that doesnt give him legal standing and a TD does!????
    Scandalous ruling

    34
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    Mute Marlon Major
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    Jan 31st 2013, 2:50 PM

    LOL! I tell you…. I don’t care how down I can be. Or how the challenges of life may twist me about…. The one thing I can I always count on… Is our government, political and judicial systems to make me laugh. How can a bunch of “educated altrustic” individuals consistently get it so wrong.

    It is almost as if…. When the correct answer appears… They instinctually decide on the alternative “wrong” answer.

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    Mute censored
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    Jan 31st 2013, 4:30 PM

    Well Ciaran, hopefully by then the Kenny gene pool will have died off due to natural selection. I thought Debbie’s comment was pretty funny as she put Enda’s words in somebody’s else’s mouth. Maybe they are all the same, but there’s cynicism for you.

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    Mute GatheringYourMoney
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    Jan 31st 2013, 8:22 PM

    Since my last honest, factual post was taken down.
    All I’ll say is

    Mr McDowell, that fine, decent ex politician
    On a fine, decent, politician’s salary
    Is representing the state?

    When did you start representing the state Mr McDowell??

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    Mute GatheringYourMoney
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    Jan 31st 2013, 8:24 PM

    Michael Mc Dowell
    An ex member of one of the governments that destroyed Ireland.
    Is this not a conflict of interests??

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    Mute Andrew Brennan
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:36 AM

    Time to march on the GPO I think.

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    Mute Gearóid O Machain
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:43 PM

    you sir are correct and right, Feb 9th be there!! http://www.ictu.ie/jobsnotdebt/

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    Mute William Mcgee
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:56 AM

    Are not all people of the country intitled to go to the courts for justice, or only certin sections permitted to seek justice. Things are getting so bad in this country I sometimes wonder if I am still living in Ireland. Is it Endas and Gilmores or no way ?.

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    Mute Gearóid O Machain
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:42 PM

    the day is coming very quickly William when we will remind the big boys who holds all the cards!! i’ve been warning them that if they continue to play their games it will be too late when the mob come to take back the power but they refuse to listen!! Ah well

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    Mute Thomas Roche
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:49 AM

    looks like it’s up to the opposition bench to produce a man/woman TD to bring this before a judge of the land. The judge does’t want to communicate with the ordinary person who pay his wages.

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    Mute Dermot Purcell
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:10 PM

    Tomas its not that they do not want to communicate with the small people they cannnot stand the ordinary joe and the best excuse they can come up with is a td has to bring these proceedings ,so much for democracy .

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    Mute Anna Kirby
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    Jan 31st 2013, 7:17 PM

    Shocking really you would expect justice when you go before a Court.

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    Mute Carcu Sidub
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:07 AM

    Justice Kearns does this mean the Government is above the law?

    Article 40 of the Constitution
    1. All citizens shall, as human persons, be held equal before the law.

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    Mute David Dancey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:10 PM

    Article 40 may not be relevant in this instance. Bear in mind that Person A cannot sue Person B for damages arising from an action by Person C if Person A is unrelated to the case. This doesn’t affect equality, it simply puts limits on who can take actions. Not everyone is entitled to take any case to court.

    I’m not a legal expert and I can’t comment definitively for that reason but I suspect that the full judgement is probably a bit more nuanced than the comments here give it credit for. Why on earth wasn’t it brought up by the opposition TD’s if there was a shadow of a case? Not implying that the case itself is weak but more a criticism of the Opposition. After all, it is their job.

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    Mute Carcu Sidub
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    Jan 31st 2013, 2:55 PM

    Two very large hole’s in your argument.

    1. The only opposition that could take the case are SF or the independents, who were elected to the previous Dáil. FF & the Greens were in Government at the time, while FG & Labour are now in power. I don’t think any member of FG, Labour or FF elected to the previous or current Dáil are going to take up the case. Do you? So unless SF have the balls, the Irish citizens £ucked over again by the elected & appointed “elite”.

    2. Let us assume Person A is a normal Irish citizen. Person B is The Government. While Person C is the Troica or ECB or IMF or whom ever the is forcing Person B to issue the promissory notes. In this case Person A (Irish citizen), is affected by the actions of Person C (Troika or ECB or IMF or whomever the is forcing Person B to issue the promissory notes), because Person C (Troika or ECB or IMF or whomever the is forcing Person B to issue the promissory notes) is requiring/forcing Person B (The Government), to undertake actions that have a direct affect on Person A (Irish citizen).

    However what is more worrying to me is the fact that Mr. Justice Kearns appears to have granted The Government powers to act, against the wishes without even considering the wishes of the people and quite possibly the common good, even though, Article 6 states;
    “All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirements of the common good.”

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    Mute David Dancey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 3:54 PM

    Hi Carcu,

    Those are fair points. Thanks for taking the time to do a reasoned response!

    As I say, I’m not a legal expert so can’t really give conclusive answers. But it should be noted that there was a large Opposition when the bailout passed. In other words, it really should have been challenged when it happened (when FG and Labour were in Opposition). The ruling appears to allude to this in the context of the time it took to launch the challenge.

    My argument was badly worded (the one involving the rather poorly phrased “Person A|Person B” example). I was merely using it to point out that a person may be ineligible to take a case to court while still being equal under the law. It was a general point rather than actually directed at the case. However, the wording of the text above reads “Hall could not argue that he had been put in a position any different to any other citizen because of the promissory notes payment”. This suggests the court may have interpreted his claim as one of personal injury or discrimination, which in fairness it isn’t (as all of us are damaged by the drain on public finances). In that case, his case would have to be dismissed as happened.

    I should point out again that this is all speculation on my part. I am not a lawyer nor well-familiarised with the case in question. I’m merely playing Devil’s Advocate to try and add some balance to the majority of comments. Thanks again for the response!

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    Mute Coddler O Toole
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:41 AM

    You are a patriot David Hall. It speaks volumes on the erosion of our democracy when the High court cowers behind a technicality in order to avoid passing judgement on the force feeding of these promissory notes down the throats of the Irish people.
    The response to this failure of justice is clear. One of our TDs needs to take another case to the High Court immediately. Stephen Donnelly is the obvious choice as werejammin and others have suggested. Other possibilities are Joe Higgins, Richard Boyd Barrett or Shane Ross.
    Michael McDowell deserves our contempt. An arrogant and pampered insider, he will defend to his last breath the establishment and the status quo which has rewarded him and his kind so well.

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    Mute Gearóid O Machain
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:46 PM

    it says more about us though, the fact we all sat by and watched the country being dragged down by these crazies and did nothing about it!! we have done absolutely nothing to try take back the power!! shame on us all as we are the ones that can force real change and until we show we want it, it will never be offered

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    Mute Coddler O Toole
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:45 PM

    Gearoid,

    The was a display of mass civil disobedience by the people last year when 700k refused to pay the Household Charge. The protest will continue this year with a massive boycott of the Property tax and hopefully major resistance generally to the austerity agenda.
    Agreed we have been slow to action so far but the sands are beginning to shift under the feet of the elite.

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    Mute Anna Kirby
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:34 AM

    And who drew up and approved the credit union stabilization act in 2010 that gave Lenihan sole power to lend 30 billion ???

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    Mute Eugene Conroy
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:49 AM

    I did nt know lenihan was a bank manager

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    Mute O'Reilly
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:12 PM

    Fair play to Hall. It’s down to TD’s now to mount a challenge… Who will it be?

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:30 PM

    Enda?

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    Mute Frank Cluskey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:31 PM

    Donnelly and Ross
    woulden’t be too keen on the shinners taking it up

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:48 PM

    Frank even if the challenge had been successful,the government would introduce legislation to make the “note” legal and with their majirity it would pass.But of course individual TD’s woukd feel the wrath of the voters,but vote with the government no matter.

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    Mute Ryan'O
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:49 PM

    LOL@Norman :)

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    Mute Gearóid O Machain
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:49 PM

    if it wasn’t for the shinners taking up causes we could have had to put up with Fianna Fail in government for another 2 years. remember they forced by-elections in Donegal?

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    Mute Frank Cluskey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:57 PM

    agreed gearoid
    but this is the last chance saloon and i just think someone apart from the shinners would be better.
    there is a momentum building and if the shinners get inolved all we will have is deflection from fine gael, you know the usual shite they bring up about the shinners everytime the have no answers to the questions

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:06 PM

    @Ryan i don’t agree with the “note”but care to share what you feel the government would do had they lost.You really think Enda would ring Dargi and say”our court said its not legal so we’re not paying” would he f*** they would rush through legislation faster than you could recite the alphabet.

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    Mute O'Reilly
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:16 PM

    I agree with Frank. Am thinking Donnelly/ Ross. The shinners have no credibility and PBP would make a show of them selves…

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    Mute Ryan'O
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:32 PM

    No Norman I don’t think Enda can actually get through to draghi, I’m sure he’d be put on hold indefinitely. Which is why I laughed when you even suggested she would do it.

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    Mute Frank Cluskey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:32 PM

    @O’Reilly
    Yea definately don’t need any baggage with this one.
    Donnelly is clean and intelligent and articulate
    If we could persuade Matthews i think he would be an excellent choice aswell

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:45 PM

    @Ryan maybe i picked you up wrong.
    But some TD needs to challenge this i don’t care who but S Donnelly would be my choice,Matthews of FG aswell but the partt woukd never allow it.

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    Mute O'Reilly
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    Jan 31st 2013, 2:35 PM

    Frank, Norman,
    Mathews would indeed carry weight but I don’t think he’s brave enough. He seems to have been tamed. Maybe, his recent visit to the Ballyhea march will have given him the impetus…

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jan 31st 2013, 3:36 PM

    O Reilly i agree,would like to see Matthews doing it despite his party i think he has great credibility across all the political spectrum.But FG would never allow it,so i think it may be down to S Donnelly.

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    Mute Ryan'O
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    Jan 31st 2013, 4:28 PM

    I’d go for Donnelly or Ross. Matthews, although good, not good enough and tarnished by being in FG.

    This could push Donnelly’s political career into the next millennium, really change things. I really hope he goes for it.

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    Mute rusty9
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:56 PM

    The revolution must begin. Well done David Hall.

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    Mute Con Ó Domhnaill
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:49 AM

    Don’t be surprised if “justice” is skewed more and more towards the views and wishes of the government. After all Fine Gael and Labour were only a wet day in power before they made a rash of political appointments to the judiciary. In the good old tradition of Fianna Fail of course. Doing things differently. Not.

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    Mute Martin Ryan
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:10 PM

    Got to agree with you Con. This paragraph could come from any Government source, particularly the last line : “Justice Kearns said there might be “every reason to suppose” that declaring the notes invalid would have “very serious adverse implications” for Hall, Irish citizens, the State’s finances and its financial reputation as well as Ireland’s ability to continue its recovery.”

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    Mute everlast mccarthy
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:11 AM

    So the proceedings failed as he had no locus standi, not being a TD – and not on the basis of McDowell’s arguments?

    Well Shane Ross, care to step up to the mark?

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    Mute Scrap Croke Park1
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:30 AM

    David Hall: “Justice Kearns dismissed my case on the basis I don’t have standing to take the case that maybe it should be a TD! Jutted/democracy!”

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    Mute Ryan'O
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:32 AM

    Explain to the moron cos I don’t get it?!

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    Mute Ryan'O
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:40 AM

    ^^ posted before the update… :)

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    Mute Scrap Croke Park1
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:40 AM

    Well looks like he hasn’t ruled on the substantive issue – the legality of the prom note. Just said David Hall had no right to take the case but maybe a TD could take it

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    Mute Ryan'O
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:50 AM

    thanks , trying to get my head around that part. Why does he have to be a TD? Do you know? And I hope Stephen Donnelly takes over

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    Mute Mícheál O Sé
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:04 AM

    The Riff-Raff on the street have no right to challange the Robber-Barons it would seem.

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    Mute Frank Cluskey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:50 AM

    Not too many ‘we can’t burn the bondholders’ on this morning
    are we sleeping in lads?

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    Mute Con Ó Domhnaill
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:20 PM

    Give them a chance Frank. They are probably locked in a room being briefed by Dame Enda’s thought police as we speak. After all they must be tutored to exactly follow the party line. But don’t worry, when he lets them out all the red thumbs will start appearing.

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    Mute Frank Cluskey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:29 PM

    hahaha very good
    just wondering how there going to spin this one!

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    Mute Vincent Dolan
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    Jan 31st 2013, 2:36 PM

    It’s called “work”, boys…

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    Mute Frank Cluskey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 3:47 PM

    work vincent
    if work was the bed they would sleep on the floor!

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    Mute iGARAGE.IE
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:46 AM

    @ScrapCrokePark, That’s the thing, the judge has basically kicked the can down the road into the Supreme Court, probably not wanting to rule on the substantive issue on his own! As one of the people who will be ultimately paying through his nose for this decision to bail out banks, it’s very hard to see how it can be argued that he doesn’t have a right to challenge the constitutionality of the decision in court, that is unless he makes a pleb of himself by becoming a TD.

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    Mute Charles Alexander
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:06 AM

    What is disappointing about this judgement is that it was probably the only chance Ireland will get at changing the terms of the Promissory Notes. If the judge rendered that they breached the constitution then the ECB would have little choice but to accept Ireland’s proposal to restructure the notes by issuing a longer dated bond with a more favourable interest rate.Whilst this would be embarrassing for the government it would give us a stronger hand.

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    Mute ADEBAYO FLYNN
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:57 AM

    Back in your box, Paddy!

    How dare you take on the people running this country.

    Resistance is futile.

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    Mute ADEBAYO FLYNN
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:06 PM

    I HAVE ZERO RESPECT FOR OUR COUNTRIES COURTS, LEGAL SYSTEM WHATEVER YOU CALL IT. I’M SO FURIOUS THE CAP LOCK IS STAYING ON. ALL DAY.

    FURIOUS FLYNN

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    Mute David Dancey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:16 PM

    Perhaps you should gain some respect? If you don’t like the way the courts work (I’m not a fan myself) the best option isn’t to take the Sean Quinn option and ignore their judgements. Instead, why don’t you write letters, influence public opinion and debate your opponents in a civilised manner? You could raise awareness and possibly stimulate much-needed reform?

    To shout online that you have no respect for something that is absolutely fundamental accomplishes nothing. The principle demands respect. The actuality demands reform.

    Capslock doesn’t help anything.

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    Mute ADEBAYO FLYNN
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:48 PM

    Hi Dave,

    I have written e-mails to my local TD’s on numerous occasions about various issues which are/were very badly dealt with by the powers that be. Weather it be sexual assaults, promissory notes, cuts to the elderly, I get back the usual watery garbage.

    Unfortunately emails and peaceful protests achieve nothing.

    So I have resorted to CAPS lock.

    Sincerly,
    Mr Flynn

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    Mute David Dancey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 5:08 PM

    Kudos on trying to make a difference by talking to your local politicians. That and dialogue are really the only ways forward. Not suggesting that there’s anything wrong with capslock apart from it being wearisome to the eye, but just don’t imagine that it accomplishes much.

    Still, who knows what seeds your past correspondence have sown that may not yet bear fruit? One can but hope.

    Sincerely,

    David

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    Mute ADEBAYO FLYNN
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    Jan 31st 2013, 6:12 PM

    You seem like a decent guy, so ? serious question….What is the next step because I feel like I am living in a very badly run and shady country.

    If they ignore peaceful protest and emails, what then?

    It’s clear the courts can’t be trusted, ie sexual assault pay offs etc

    It’s clear the government can’t be trusted ie broken nearly all promises.

    Or is it just me who feels like this?

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    Mute Colm Pent
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:17 AM

    Yep I can defo see the judge doing the right thing here!

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    Mute Lamb
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:50 AM

    Sure isn’t it the government that appoints the judges…

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    Mute Stephen murphy
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:00 PM

    Who made the law and appointed the judge, judges should be appointed independently and asessed also!

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    Mute Chris Meudec
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:14 PM

    As Lord Diplock put it:

    “[i]t would…be a grave lacuna in our system of public law if a pressure group…or even a single public spirited taxpayer, were prevented by outdated technical rules of locus standi from bringing the matter to the attention of the court to vindicate the rule of law and get the unlawful conduct stopped.”

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    Mute Eoghan FitzGerald
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:48 PM

    This case could not have been taken in Britain because 1 Britain has no facility for judicial review and 2 the state is sovereign over the people.

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    Mute Carcu Sidub
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    Jan 31st 2013, 2:58 PM

    Eoghan

    However in Ireland the constitution states

    Article 6
    1. All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirements of the common good.

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    Mute Eoghan FitzGerald
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    Jan 31st 2013, 7:15 PM

    This just means that the people are sovereign and not the state. It means that judicial review can take place but this does not mean that the applicant does not need to have locus standi.

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    Mute Dave
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:27 AM

    Just on twitter that challenge has been dismissed! :-(

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    Mute TheHeathen
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:33 AM

    To Iceland!

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    Mute conor hickey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:42 AM

    Save your money for the beef baron bailout.

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    Mute Michael Burke
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:40 AM

    I expect a new Larry Goodman tribunal on the cards called the FlyingHorseGate tribunal

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    Mute Stephen murphy
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:02 PM

    Another one with Larry Goodman involved!

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    Mute Brian Rochford
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:18 PM

    “Nothing in this judgment should be taken or construed as indicating what view the Court might take of the merits of such a claim if and when so brought,” the verdict states.

    So – looking forward to Round 2 . Well done David Hall.

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    Mute Coddler O Toole
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:14 PM

    Judge Kearns noted the “significant costs” arising from cases such as Hall brought which fall on the taxpayer. This legal costs are utterly insignificant in comparison to the €47 billion of Promissory notes which the Irish people are being forced to swallow.
    The judge would be much better advised to earn the €283,000 annual salary which the taxpayer generously provides him and make a ruling on the substantive issue rather than hiding behind a ‘locus standi’ technicality.

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    Mute Anna Kirby
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    Jan 31st 2013, 6:54 PM

    Well said.

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    Mute Gearóid O Machain
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:53 PM

    http://www.ictu.ie/jobsnotdebt/

    FEB 9TH TO REGISTER YOUR ANGER ON THE STREETS AGAINST THIS SHIT FOR A DEMOCRACY WE’VE BEEN FORCE FED.

    IT’S HIGH TIME WE AS A NATION OF PROUD AND STRONG PEOPLE TOOK BACK THE BALANCE OF POWER IN OUR FAVOUR AS WE ARE THE ONES WHO MAKE THE COUNTRY TURN.

    DON’T LET YOURSELF, YOUR FAMILY, NEIGHBOURS OR FRIENDS DOWN BY CONTINUING TO DO NOTHING, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE JOIN US ALL AT YOUR LOCAL PROTEST AND WATCH HOW QUICK THINGS CHANGE IF WE KEEP THE PRESSURE ON

    POWER TO THE PEOPLE \O/

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    Mute Frank Cluskey
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:37 PM

    It looks like the ordinary people of Ireland might succeed where our useless inept government coulden’t
    I mean what do we pay these people for

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    Mute Stephen murphy
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:59 AM

    Michael mcDowell representing the state, how convenient when his party played a part in Bankrupting it! Where’s Sinn Fein now, Adams is a lawyer or does he not want to rock the boat in case he gets into coalition?

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    Mute werejammin
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:10 PM

    The decision was handed down 90 mins ago, can you keep your bias against sinn fein to yourself until everybodys had a chance to at least respond?

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    Mute Stephen murphy
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:21 PM

    Biased, Gerry adams is a Lawyer and politician. Why did it take a private citizen to do it, do the politicians not know the laws that already exist and I am bi-ased against people that should know these things!

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    Mute werejammin
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:30 PM

    “Gerry adams is a Lawyer and politician. Why did it take a private citizen to do it,”

    Eh, because to all intents and purposes a private citizen should be able to tak eit. David Halls not a stupid man, he would not have proceeded if he had known the judge would dismiss on the grounds he was not a TD.

    And AGAIN with the Gerry Adams. Why keep mentioning him. He’s under no obligation to take the case, O’Cailean would be more suited, and he’s under n obligation either.

    Why the bias?

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    Mute Dermot Mc Loughlin
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:45 PM

    Gerry Adams is not a lawyer, seriously, if you’re sole intention is coming here and mentioning someone who had no hand or part in this debacle or was indeed responsible for this promissory note nor indeed has anything to do with this topic then try and commit facts not bulls**t.
    You’ve mentioned he’s a lawyer twice, so you’re wrong twice and those who gave you green thumbs are as ignorant and devoid of facts as you are.

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    Mute Stephen murphy
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:46 PM

    You’re right, he is not and I must have mistaken Lawmaker to Lawyer. Anyway, he has been in politics a long time and I am very surprised he and others didn’t know about this law? Why didn’t FG take the case, when in opposition with Labour and why our lawmakers don’t know all this stuff! Aren’t they paid well, to know this stuff?

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    Mute Dermot Mc Loughlin
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    Jan 31st 2013, 7:18 PM

    My apologies for such a rash retort Stephen.

    Anyway, you have about as much chance of getting a FG member taking this case on as you’d have with a FF member taking it, for FF it would be an admittance of utter failure as politicians and well FG/Labour – them bankers wouldn’t look to kindly on their best friends betraying them, FG/Lab would rather work against us than for us and nothing can be more blatantly obvious.

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    Mute Noreen Lunney
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    Feb 1st 2013, 2:19 PM

    gerry adams is not a lawyer, as for not rocking the boat, we will wait see and i am sure you will object to that as well.

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    Mute SamEire
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:09 PM

    One answer. Shinner majority in the next govt. Im no supporter but the only party at the moment in a position to tell the ecb to feck off. Politely of course..

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    Mute Louis CK
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:29 PM

    Thought that one through at all?

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    Mute Stuart Kelly
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:44 AM

    Ok then, but was Stephen Donnelly TD not with him in the court? Could he not just put his name on the paperwork and solve that problem at least?

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    Mute voodoo_criminology
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:43 PM

    In a word, no.

    Could’ve been done before the trial, but once the case had been opened, would have been essentially impossible. Won’t be possible to have the TDs join in for the Supreme Court, either – would suggest to any interested TDs to get on to Mr. Rogers and get their proceedings issued pronto.

    11
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    Mute Barry McSweeney
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:06 PM

    An outrageous decision that an ordinary citizen has no standing in these matters.
    We should just put up, shut up and pay up – that is the message.

    Was Kearns not linked to the PDs at some stage?

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    Mute Coddler O Toole
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:51 PM

    Barry,

    Fair play to your memory.
    ‘Judge Kearns — who was closely involved with the Progressive Democrats in the party’s formative years’
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/new-high-court-president-appointed-1905946.html

    Judge Kearns has presided over a case where the state is represented by former PD leader Michael McDowell.
    Should the judge not have excused himself from this case in the interests of public confidence in our justice system?

    24
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    Mute Con Ó Domhnaill
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    Jan 31st 2013, 2:18 PM

    I bet Kearns and Mc Dowell passed in the corridor and pretended not to know each other

    9
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    Mute Stephen Brown
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    Jan 31st 2013, 11:50 AM

    Is there any sitting TD’S actively sitting that will take this case who we’re elected at the time the promissory notes were issued? And if a case could be taken what are the chances of a winning result? Obviously Mr Hall thought there was a chance. If the case against the promissory notes was sucessfull does that mean the they then become nul and void?

    16
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    Mute Pilib O Muiregan
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:42 PM

    High court and supreme court judges are appointed by the government. The people of this nation gave the government more power over the judges in the last referendum. There needs to be serious reform over how judges are appointed. This will not happen .

    15
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    Mute Andrew Brennan
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:29 PM

    Michael Lowry TD has more standing in the Irish Courts than an ordinary decent Irish citizen

    15
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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:32 PM

    He’s had alot of experience of them.

    17
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    Mute Eric Davies
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:51 PM

    wonder if justice kearns is a bondholder ? this decision stinks of underhand dealings.

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    Mute Alan Phillips
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:15 PM

    Relax, this is Ireland the Judge will change his mind in a couple of days

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    Mute Gearóid O Machain
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:54 PM

    not without a huge public outcry against his decision. see we have the power and unless we make it known how we feel they’ll just try to move on and continue living in their bubbles

    POWER TO THE PEOPLE \o/

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    Mute flinders
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    Jan 31st 2013, 1:43 PM

    Odd legal strategy.

    It was reasonably predictable that the judge would find he had no locus standi.

    Since it presented the court with a relatively simple ‘out’, it seems logical to me that you would be extra careful to avoid giving the court the option of selecting it in order to dismiss your action.

    The thing is that the solution was relatively simple…..have the TD’s on the proceedings. Which begs the question, since they appear to support the action, why weren’t they?

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    Mute Sean Duignan
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    Jan 31st 2013, 5:23 PM

    Just thinking the same thing.Whose advising Hall? Should they not know this?

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    Mute Morgan C.Jones
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    Jan 31st 2013, 3:01 PM

    1% holding all the cards. Something has to give

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    Mute Rita Cahill
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    Jan 31st 2013, 3:36 PM

    Questions need to be asked about this ruling of injustice here being done, the second time in a row this judge Nicolas Kearns who over ruled illegal on the children’s referendum now the promissory notes , he has over ruled twice against all odds, questions need to be answered whether this judgement is legal or illegal, my guess illegal and corruption has been drawn to the conclusion, I hope justice Kearns takes full responsibilities for white wash crime, and if Ireland goes bust he should be charged and this government too brought to justice for f…. up Irelands economy, this is the last draw after this repeat of white wash crime regime cover up.

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    Mute Japanese Margaret
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    Jan 31st 2013, 4:15 PM

    Donnellys time to shine. Step up Donnelly!!!

    9
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    Mute FlopFlipU
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    Jan 31st 2013, 5:07 PM

    On a light hearted note .Did you hear about the judge with no balls .He was known as justice mickey

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    Mute Sean Duignan
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    Jan 31st 2013, 3:46 PM

    I’ll say it again Stephen Donnelly TD seems to be one of the only competent politicians we have,he should take on the case as apparently we the people have no standing in this matter even though we the people are paying for it! Outrageous ruling and quite frankly insulting.
    Not to worry our brainiest politician Noonan is DEALING with the promissory note problem or private bank debt which is what it really is!
    Does anyone understand him when he speaks? I don’t .

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    Mute Pat Mullan
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    Jan 31st 2013, 2:39 PM

    Unfortunately we are in for the long haul. How unfortunate. Thats the only way of life we know in this country. Question now is, how long would it have taken us to get out of this mess? Nobody will really knows that answer either. I have to say we are a quiet lot to just sit down and watch this all unfold around us. The funny thing about this Merry-go-round is that it just isent funny anymore as the promises are broken and the ahh it will do attitude remains the same for younger generation. The more things change the more they stay the same.
    Yup your local TD will come knocking at your door ( if you are lucky) with an air of authentisity for a new brighter future. This merry-go-round has to stop.
    I dont have any answers but i feel sick and its time to step off.

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    Mute Paul Roche
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    Jan 31st 2013, 4:53 PM

    People won’t put up with this carry on for much longer. When the people cannot access justice through the usual channels history shows us they are inclined to seek justice through alterior routes. These politicians in wigs need to cop themselves on before they find a lynch mob waiting for them outside their courtrooms.

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    Mute eastpoint
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    Jan 31st 2013, 12:41 PM

    Such time wasters

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    Mute sean bolger
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    Jan 31st 2013, 8:44 PM

    i thought we had a President who’s supposed to watch out for ALL the people of this country.
    DON’T HE HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY .????

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    Mute Derek Boyle
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    Jan 31st 2013, 10:01 PM

    He had a Art expo to go to or maybe a poetry reading or was in the abbey for the last two days staring at a blank wall.

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    Mute Drum Stig
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    Feb 1st 2013, 1:19 PM

    sent to Editor Irish Times yesterday but not published …..

    Sir,

    The action taken by Mr David Hall in relation to the Promissory Note, if we agree it to be unanimously supported by the citizens of this country, should have the support of the Court in so far as said court has a duty of care to the Irish people in all matters resulting from the actions of the Oireachtas.

    Every citizen has a ‘right’ to ask questions of the Oireachtas and to make a stand against an action with which he/she deems unjust. The judiciary can not arbitrarily remove that right.

    Whether or not the Minister has adhered to the procedures stated in Article 21 of the Constitution in relation to Money Bills, he has not acted in the interest of the people. The promissory note is without question a device arising from the financial burden ‘volunteered’ on the Irish people by the Oireachtas and used to impose unlawful taxes in favour of private business interests located outside this State.

    Politics is not an activity separate to the people; it involves them most directly. Mr Hall is a stakeholder in the political and civil affairs that affect him, as are the rest of the people. I believe the Oireachtas has indeed the authority to use financial instruments to raise finance to pay for public services and any costs which are GENERATED BY and can be CHARGED BACK TO the citizens. That is called running the country.

    THIS IS NOT OUR DEBT!!!!

    SOMEBODY GAMBLED ON THE IRISH ECONOMY AND LOST!!

    ….. You don’t go to the race track and bet a million Euro on a horse and when it hobbles in last tell the guy standing next to you he owes you a million Euro!

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    Mute Bill66
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    Jan 31st 2013, 7:20 PM

    Any td out there going to take a case….?

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    Mute Chris Smith
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    Jan 31st 2013, 7:46 PM

    The full United Nations Document is avaiable on the web from which this excerpt is taken.

    THE CONCEPT OF ODIOUS DEBT IN PUBLIC INTERNATIONAL LAW
    Prof. Robert Howse
    Abstract
    The concept of “odious debt” regroups a particular set of equitable considerations that have
    often been raised to adjust or sever debt obligations in the context of political transitions,
    based on the purported odiousness of the previous regime and the notion that the debt it
    incurred did not benefit, or was used to repress, the people. This paper begins with an
    exploration of the grounds of the “odious debt” concept in basic international law structures
    and principles. The international law obligation to repay debt has never been accepted as
    absolute, and has been frequently limited or qualified by a range of equitable considerations,
    some of which may be regrouped under the concept of “odiousness.” This is consistent with
    the accepted view that equity constitutes part of the content of “the general principles of law
    of civilized nations”, one of the fundamental sources of international law stipulated in the
    Statute of the International Court of Justice. At the same time, most debt contracts between
    States and private creditors are governed by the domestic private law specified in the
    contract. The legal systems of these jurisdictions may well have concepts such as “clean
    hands” or the notion that contracts related to illegal purposes are invalid. These concepts
    overlap with elements of the notion of “odiousness” as a basis for invalidating debt
    obligations. Investor/state arbitration tribunals, for example, have been comfortable taking
    into account such considerations in determining whether repudiation of contractual
    obligations to an investor by the host State is consistent with international law. This suggests
    that such concepts may indeed form part of the content of equity as “a general principle of
    law of civilized nations”, especially if widely shared among different legal systems.

    3
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