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HOUSING MINISTER Eoghan Murphy has defended the price of homes on offer at the redeveloped O’Devaney Gardens, stating that €310,000 “is affordable for people on the average industrial wage”.
The definition by Dublin Council of what constitutes an affordable property at the site has been slammed by local representatives this week.
Local representative Eilis Ryan has said the house prices exclude the overwhelming majority of Dublin households, while Sinn Féin Housing spokesperson on Dublin City Council Daithí Doolan has said there are “huge problems” with the site.
“How can a single person on less than €50k or a couple on less than €75k expect to purchase a so-called affordable home in O’Devaney if the price is above €250k? asked Doolan.
After many years of promises and plans to redevelop O’Devaney Gardens, the turning of the sod on the first phase in the regeneration development took place last year.
The overall re-development will deliver approximately 600 homes, with a mix of social, affordable and private homes.
Concerns about the cost of the houses on offer in O’Devaney Gardens was raised with the minister today at the Oireachtas Housing Committee.
Some of the three-bedroom apartments classed as “affordable” homes in O’Devaney Gardens are due to cost €420,000.
When asked about the matter today, Murphy said that he has been informed that four homes on the site are on offer for €420,000. He said he has spoken to Dublin City Council about the issue, adding that no homes for sale on site will cost over €400,000.
The minister said the majority of homes for sale at O’Devaney Gardens cost less than €310,000 which he said is affordable to people on the average industrial wage.
The average earnings of a worker in Ireland is just under €39,000, according to the 2018 figures released by the CSO in January of this year.
Last year, the minister said government policy classes affordability as individuals earning up to €50,000 or a couple earning up to €75,000.
He added that government has to “step in to bridge the affordability gap” as it is evident that the market is not doing so.
Sinn Féin’s housing spokesperson Eoin O’Broin took issue with the minister stating that a €310,000 house price is affordable for those on the average industrial wage, as well as Murphy’s comments where he stated that €1,200 is an affordable rent for two people to pay.
The Sinn Féin spokesperson pointed out that a couple buying a home for €310,000 would need a deposit of €31,000, and therefore would need a bank loan of €279,000.
He said this would breach Central Bank rules on mortgage loans, adding that this couple would also be above the threshold for the affordable housing and the home loan scheme.
He said the house prices at O’Devaney are “way off the Richter scale” for many.
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That man needs serious medical help if he is having delusions like that.
@CBD HeavenSent: why should city centre apartments be sold for less than market value? Affordable housing does not need to be on prime land in city centre…use money from this to build more units in cheaper location in suburbs.
@SFNutters: why should a developer make millions of euro from prime state owned land in the city centre?
@Thomas Maher: he shouldn’t…on the flip why should anyone get housing in a prime location for way below market value?
@SFNutters: but he is and for some reason you arent all over the journal shouting about that…
@SFNutters: because SF all the people who serve coffee, clean streets, work as bank tellers, clean parks and on and on and on – you know, people who make relatively little money but still provide essential services – they need somewhere to live too.
Unless you’re advocating that the less well off should all have to commute for an hour a day?
Pretty straightforward really
@CBD HeavenSent: wow. And how does he expect people to live. From the previius comment he should be on meds.
@SFNutters: It’s on public land and affordable housing can only be genuinely affordable if built on public land,one would reason!
@Shazam37: By all means they can commute for an hour. Very few people working in Dublin have a commute less than an hour who had to buy their property further out. Many commute a lot longer.
what happens when interest rate go up!!another property collapse will soon hit.
@Thomas Maher: Beacuse he is a FG fan boy
@Craic_a_tower: ok so the environment can
Go to hell – let them commute. Traffic congestion and gridlock costing the taxpayers 10s of millions each year – to hell with it who cares right?
Standard of living, lifestyle – sod that they don’t deserve it sure they only make small money.
Or maybe don’t be so small minded eh? Maybe there should be space in the city centre for all socio economic classes?
@CBD HeavenSent: it shows how out of touch these people are with the rest of the world
@Craic_a_tower: To commute for 1 hour costs about €80 a week in petrol
about €60 on bus or train , that plus rent is not affordable on a minimum wage. Next time think before you type.
@Nuala Mc Namara: Who gave this minority FG government the mandate to hand over publicly owned land so a developer can make so much profit from it? Publicly owned land should benefit the public. Those that need affordable homes. Not the carpet bag developers.
There’s people depending on charity soup runs to feed themselves, because the cannot afford food and rent.
The Cuckoo funds will buy these homes straight off the plans. As per IMF instructions to FG.
@SFNutters: affordable housing should be included in ALL housing developments irrespective of their location as mandatory. That’s how you stop creating areas of social poverty. This is basic common sense policy. Social policy should absolutely not be based on land prices. I was recently staying near a very affluent area just outside Amsterdam for work. Mansions worth millions side by side with social housing. Why is this concept so difficult to understand?
@SFNutters: because this is a democracy, and the majority of the people apparently want to live in these areas. No further argument should be necessary.
@SFNutters: talk about making a clown of yourself
@Mary Fitzsimons: Live in the big expensive EU capital city them Mary! Thousands commuting for much more than an hour each way daily. Houses/rent cheaper outside Dublin. Same in any EU capital, look at London, millions commuting in daily. Get used to it!
@SFNutters: Because the land was public and given to the developer at a reduced rate in order for it to be sold below market value. What part of this don’t you understand?
It’s totally affordable.
My house was marginally less than that a number of years ago.
Saved a similar deposit and moved in with almost nothing.
Over the years the salaries went up and be were able to upgrade furniture etc.
Did this by not going on holiday, living at home, not smoking or drinking while we saved.
If a couple are on the average wage each, they could save one salary and use the other to save. They’d have their deposit in less than 18 months and that’s not even working hard at it.
People want stuff handed to them. You have to work for it.
@Sequoia: The rules specify that you can only get 3.5 times your joint earnings as mortgage. That would mean a joint income of 80000 with a 350000 euro deposit for first time buyers. Put it this way, Malhide the town with the highest household incomes has a median income of 78000. Half the people Malahide wouldn’t qualify for these and you’re saying its affordable.
@Sequoia: try not to speak sense on here – doesn’t bode well. I did exactly same as you trying to get on the property ladder
@Sequoia: people like leo who received 100% mortgages didnt have to work for it, and youre assuming prices will stagnate, they wont. And assuming 2 average working people managed to live, not exist, for those 18 months, which they wouldnt due to the ridiculous cost of living they still would not qualify for a mortgage based on central bank rules.
Prehaps if a developer wasnt making €60 odd million from the site and the council built the houses the prices wouldnt be so ridiculous
@Niall: He’s not speaking sense. Neither are you
@Sequoia: Really throwing people on 30K or less under the bus there aren’t you?
Work hard, educate yourself in your field, get raises & bonuses. Save & buy what you need.
You don’t need every room furnished, you don’t need a 50” tv, you don’t need two cars, you definitely don’t need to smoke or drink while saving for the biggest purchase of your life.
When saving for our place, we both went out and got second jobs. We worked our asses off, didn’t get any hand outs or grants or gifts. We worked for it.
We saved our deposit and went to the bank, they said they couldn’t get as much as we wanted, so we bought a house 35 miles further out on the train line.
We got monthly train tickets & ironically they cost us an additional €60 or so over what the mortgage where we wanted our house would have.
But we sucked it up.
Post: 1/2
@Keith O’Reilly: but the average wage is €38k according to the article. I agree, those under 30k can’t afford these directly, but those earning under the average industrial wage would also be able get further state supports, so you’re not comparing like with like
We had a 14” portable that we kept in the bedroom.
That’s where we watched tv in the evenings after dinner.
We saved and decorated another room, then another.
Then someone hit our car and wrote it off so we had to put off the decorating while we replaced it.
Then we went back to saving some more and decorating some more.
Then one day we saw a house in our area for sale and viewed it & it was a wreck so it was priced about €30k under market.
We did our sums, sold ours & bought this one & moved back and we still had to save and work and take our time.
All while working two jobs, and having. Pride in our achievements.
Anyone earning €30k is doing ok. They just need to learn how to budget properly.
Post: 2/2
@Sequoia: Do you feel like you’re an inspiration, yeah?
@Sequoia: Do your sums, if both are earning 30k that’s 60 k joint so a couple could only get 210k as a mortgage. They’d need 100k as a deposit. Do you have 100k equity in your house yet. Would 3.5 times your joint income cover whats left to pay on your mortgage. Honestly could you afford your house now under the new mortgage rules.
@Sequoia: How can people presently paying massive rents which are 35% above boom years,afford to save?
Last year Revenue Report published last year showed 1.7m workers earning €30,000& under.They need affordable homesIn fact the vast majority of workers need affordable homes.
.Plus over 140,000+ people who need social housing.
@Sequoia: And if you can’t live at home sequoia? What then? What if you’re paying 1200 a month in rent?
What if you have kids and you’re paying rent and creche fees?
Ah but sure you lived at home like a monk (I’m sure) therefore it’s doable for everyone.
@Sequoia: God go pat yourself on the back you condenseding pr!ck.
All the info you divulged but you never stated how much ye were earning and how much help ye got
No matter how much education there is X amount of jobs over certain slaries and that is fact.
I own my own house too, but due to the FG gov had to move and now have a mortage and rent, but dont go on about how others should do it.
No foff and get a job in FG as you seem to have the same metatily in telling everyone how they shoudl run the lives
@Niall: Do fhuck off Niall. Your connections with FG are well known. Clown.
Plenty of chips on shoulders here.
Let me guess. All you whiners can afford a mortgage so you’re blaming everyone but yourselves?
Listen folks, there’s no secret to it. Work hard and save. If you can’t afford a house in Dublin, move further away. Forgot the wants for a couple of years and concentrate on the needs.
I’ve earned more than I earn now & I’ve earned less (a lot less), you’ll not get far by complaining, but you will by keeping the head down & working hard.
@Sequoia: oh yes. Move your family. Take your kids out of school. Find a new job down the country somewhere. All so easy for the man who said – quite clearly – that he moved home.
Here’s a hard pill for you to swallow. Moving home to save IS a grant sequoia. Not from the state – from your folks.
You had your hand out grasping for other people’s help and then have the cheek to look down on others.
@Shazam37: Ignore him, the chap is a complete tool.
@Shazam37:
I didn’t move home you fool. I moved back to the area I was raised after moving 35 miles away.
I lived at home handing up a third of my (first) Income as a contribution to the house.
I didn’t move away and them move back. There was no grant from my folks or otherwise.
If you really want something enough you’ll work hard and make sacrifices for it. If you can’t afford it after that, you’re doing something wrong.
Schools really need to introduce classes on self sufficiency and budgeting. It’d be too late for some but would do the upcoming generation wonders.
@Sequoia: so you did live at home. And you don’t think that made things financially easier for you – and you call me a fool and suggest budgeting lessons for others?
@Sequoia: That last bit’s actually true. Schools should teach many life skills they don’t currently teach (or teach enough of, at least).
But there are thousands of variable factors that prevent people building such an admirable foundation for themselves as that which you gloat about now. Putting others down for their poor life performance, as you’d call it, doesn’t make you a pleasant person to share the planet with. A lot of people fall through the cracks and end up killing themselves, ultimately because they didn’t perform as well as you did or life threw them too many curve balls despite their best efforts. Stop bein’ a dick.
@Sequoia:
You should nominate yourself for a Nobel Prize……
And now I understand the term “snowflake generation”.
Earn what you have. Don’t expect, go get.
@Sequoia: Ah so you’re just a d!ckhead then. Sorry for wastin’ my time
@Sequoia: don’t be so stupid.
Fiddlesticks!
Strangers are angry at me on the internet (again)… whatever will I do?
I’ve got it… not care as usual.
:D
@Sequoia: why do you feel the need to measure the whole of society against your trajectories? People like you are completely blind to the ingrained inequalities in our systems. Luckily you’re privileged enough to be in a position to save money for a mortgage but there are many who just break even in life, sitting on the breadline hoping no additional expenses will hit. You’re going off the Fine Gael BS rethoric of “work harder”, which is a very tunnel-visioned and juvenile response to a massively complex system of interwoven factors. You’re individualising structural issues and the ignorance is blatantly obvious.
@Sequoia: oh and lastly, I’m highly scarlet for you.
@Sequoia: guy with discipline focus and determination to live Spartan lifestyle, move to the boonies and scrounge for enough to by house (while getting help from parents)
Or guy who wastes time spouting nonsensical right wing bilge on an anonymous message board at 6 o’clock in the evening.
Now which are you? Don’t think you’re both to be honest. Silly boy.
@Aisling Bruen,
“I’m highly scarlet for you”. It took you 4 minutes for your “and another thing…” LOL
Don’t be. I’m not embarrassed of getting what I have through hard work.
@Shazam37, Roderick, Joe Phillips, Dave Barnaville, etc…
Night folks, carry on arguing amongst yourselves. Maybe if you put as much effort into working as you did to that, you’d be able to get a mortgage.
@Sequoia: alot of what you are saying makes sense. I think the tone of your posts and lack of awareness of some people’s situations is what is rubbing others the wrong way. It’s a great achievement what you did but not everyone can get there the route you went.
@Sequoia:
You certainly put a lot of effort into trying to convince randomers on the internet of what a shining beacon of humanity you are, you’ve been at it for 5 hours now, what dedication! Have you thought of a getting a book deal? Maybe movie options after that? “Sequoia: The Person that Lived at Home with Mammy and Daddy with Only a Portable Telly and One Car who Built the Best Darned House on the Planet”. The sequel could be you saving for decking and a garage..
@Johnny Keane: Johnny what he’s saying is pure rubbish. The only things we can take from what he’s said is he has a vivid imagination and too much time on his hands. A sad internet troll – not a serious dedicated gut busting, win at all costs, earn earn earn and deliver kind of guy.
How do I know? Guys like that don’t bother trolling people on message boards.
@Nuala Mc Namara: Me for one.
@Sequoia: Love the subtle implication that people making less than average wages must be lazy and not working hard enough, pure FG attitude there.
@Sequoia: 315 tweets and 1 follower. It took me four mins to reply cause you know, friends and real life conversation. Relying on the Journal comments for social interaction is kinda sad. But sure look, we’re all here for you if you ever decide come down off that high horse. Extending an invite to the grassroots housing support group, might be good for you to hear some other lived experiences. And who knows, you might even make a few mates.
@Sequoia: I work 8:30-5:30 Mon-Fri and most Fri and Sat nights, often travelling round the country for that, so I might get one day to relax. I live quite frugally but my salary’s well below the €39k this government seems to think everyone’s making, because there are far more people below that than there are above it. The rich tend to get richer though, in our system. If you’re a big enough company we won’t even let you pay tax.
The less well-off are constantly p!ssing against the wind. Wages aren’t exactly increasing to match the rising rents/insurance/etc costs.
Are you really having such a hard time understanding how people can fall behind? Or are ya just trolling?
*but there are…
@Thomas Maher: prices will drop as the next recession kicks in soon.
@Sequoia: I’ll get my violin out…l
@Sequoia: where is my violin?…….
@Dave Barnaville: are there a Nobel prizes for knobs ?
@Gus Sheridan: The banks will not lend you money if the house prices are falling. It’s too risky for them. So just because the prices are “cheap”, it doesnt mean you can buy a house unless you are an aristocrat have the full amount in cash.
@Sequoia: Working for it doesn’t make the bank grant you a mortgage which on those figures would not happen.FG have an idealistic block to providing for normal average people.Posh Boy politics.Rich mam and dad will sort it sure.
The problem with average wages is all wages are thrown into the pot including Murphy’s wage…. the reality is completely different. All around ireland there are workers sitting down who are not on the average industrial wage wondering who is getting the money that Murphy says they are receiving. Once I here average you know it’s lies spun by the worse minister for the environment and the best minister for increasing the homeless figures…..
@Martin Smith: but it’s not a lie though. The unions readily acknowledge that they’re only averages.
@Martin Smith: I think you need to look up the definition of the word ‘average’ strangely enough it doesn’t mean every earns it or above, although, a better stat to look at would be the median not the average wage
Affordable on his pay.
I would recommend that this man seeks help from a psychiatric hospital immediately
Not affordable for previous residents if they want to move back they were all in the scratcher ffs
@Michael Collins: layabouts
@Michael Collins: know them all do you? Or is it just generalizing for a few thumbs up from like thinking people on the journal?
@Thomas Maher: I do….some decent people but a good lot of layabouts and s sprinkling of out and out criminals who made the place worse for all.
@SFNutters: so theyre not “all on the scratcher”?
@Thomas Maher: Did you ever visit the place? It was really messed up. In this case it wasn’t just a few bad apples the barrel became completely rotten.
He really does live in cloud cuckoo land
Every time he opens his mouth he shows how out of his depth he truly is. Again, if we had a functioning government/opposition system he’d be long gone.
It is cheap for the location so close to the city. DIT will be open fully and be around the corner soon enough and right by the Phonex Park.
The problems there were down to the residents before. Used to go through there daily and the kids would constantly be burning fires
Just living on another planet these lads are.
Not everybodies wage packed is increasing by 20%+ year on year like some professions I know.
For him.
This is the most infuriating article I’ve read on the issue yet. I absolutely despise this guy now
FFG care less…
I’m sure it’s very affordable on his salary but someone in a minimum wage or part time job?
Completely out of touch with the ordinary people.
@Mary Walshe: if you are on minimum wage or have a part time job you cannot afford to live in the capital city of our country. It’s very simple.
@ᑕOᑎOᖇ GᒪᗩᑎᑕY: And yet a majority of the people want to, which in a democracy should be the end of the argument and the beginning of policy changes to make it a reality. It’s that simple.
1200 is affordable. Should be affordable for one person. 310k mortgage taking into account 20% dep for non first time buyers is a mortgage about 230k. That is also affordable for working people.
This is a bit like the farmers and the beef
I feel sorry for them and the tenants but
We are a market economy
Why are we still complaining about stuff like this and mr mutphy has no role
@Paul Dooley: Do not forget what the market did to you last outing when you look at your USC in you pay packet.
If the market isn’t controlled or gets to much profit it feeds positive creating price instability, the government needs set the entry price all prices should follow on from that.
@Paul Dooley: Yeah he plays no fn role in increasing housing supply which would bring done house prices and rents ..
And in this no-role he play a huge role in increasing profits for people invested in property
@Albert Brennerman: All that goes up must come down and after every boom their is a bust .. the likes of paul must have some memory disorder or be part of Leos spin unit
Move out of the city like the rest of those with common sense and a realistic outlook on what they can afford do and stop complaining. Town type houses in a modern capital city centre is nuts and unrealistic anyway, we need to build up, not out.
@ros aodha: some of us are from the city. Our families, our jobs, our friends are here. Its realistic to be able to live where you are at home. The unrealistic part is having a housing market based fully on the private sector
@Niall Dunne: we have completely unrealistic expectations. Do you know of any other first world capital city where a couple on an average income could afford a house with a back garden in the middle of the urban core – not a chance, land prices are just too high for such low density housing. A 2/3 bed apartment maybe at a stretch but not a house. As the previous commenter said, we need to increase density drastically within the M50 by building up and getting rid of this silly notion that apartments are not for fammilies. That would also make public transport infrastructure more cost effective. Also why should the taxpayer subsidise a select few to avail of a nice semi D close to the city centre, while the rest of us have to pay through the nose for the same or commute 4 hrs a day to get to work??
@Damon16: the point Damon is everyone should be able to afford a family dwelling within 20 minutes of the city thanks to high density living and varied housing on available land.
@Niall Dunne: Now that not realistic Niall you can’t expect housing to be available for you absolutely everywhere on the basis that your friends or family might be there.
@Shazam37: high density is a must, but even then there is a limit to the population you can accomdate on the land available. Therefore, the laws of supply and demand will dicate a price. You could certainly fix the price – but that won’t change supply and demand, it would only mean other ways of rationing would need to be found (e.g housing waiting lists).
Thats 10 times the average salary….. they have no idea how the other half live those guys. A €300k mortgage, over its liftime will cost the borrower near €1million After income tax and interest has been paid. Its not right.
Clown
@Paul Whelan: great minds
The quicker a General Election the quicker this man is voted out.He is the worst Minster of all time.
Actual headcase
What a clown.
Should affordable housing be made for those earning less than the average wage? This minister has because acknowledged that’s he’s happy with 50% of people having zero chance of owing a home in Dublin. Also on the average wage thing. Don’t our earnings peak in our 40s and 50s? Young people in their 20s and 30s, the ages people buy homes are unlikely to be anywhere near the level of their career to be earning the average industrial wage!
Here’s an idea, why not rent all these blocs out through a housing body or the local council at rates higher than landlords offer on long term secure leases?
@Niall Dunne: Should have said rates lower than a landlord for that last point.
@Niall Dunne: the notion of the average earner owning a semi D on a nice tree lined street a few km from the city center of Dublin is no longer realistic. Its not realistic in Toronto, London, Amsterdam, Sydney or any other city. Why should Dublin be any different.
@Damon16: you’re not comparing like with like though. Toronto Dublin and Sydney have highly centralised down town commercial districts – our city centre, the CBD in Sydney and downtown Toronto. London has the City. But all of those make use of high rise dwellings and far More robust public transport systems. Underground’s and interconnected bus and orbital routes .
@Damon16: because we live in a democracy, and a majority of the people want it.
@Damon16:
So should we move Dubliners in that wage bracket out of the city all together?
Dublin is home to a million
people, a lot of those live in the city centre and want to live there, and should be provided for.
Is it Dublin for the wealthy only you want?
@Damon16: it’s very realistic!! It’s the direct actions and policy decisions that f this sham government that’s has us in this situation
Beyond unreal
Who is advising this guy? I am no fan but,
This is a positive thing it is targeted at average earners. If done in enough quantity it should set the baseline for home cost and self fund. It does not answer people on low incomes are to be accommodated, but they do need to be accommodated.
On his salary maybe
So minister, I heard that Cloud Cuckoo Land is a good oul place to live nowadays? That’s where you live isn’t it eh? Awww, sure that’s nice. No homeless folks there I presume?
He is clearly suffering from massive indoctrination by lobbyists on behalf of the land & building speculators, who have the home supply Minister by the short & curlies.
If the Government of the day will not directly commission public housing on available state land, & instruct planning authorities to restrict approvals of housing in excess of values over mortgages open to average earners, & finance small dwelling act home building to that value, then it is time to get another government that will. The approval of building capacity to higher value homes needs to be deferred until the SDA need is met as a priority.
The state could do it in leaner times, so there is no excuse.
So get a crew on board who will do it.
Not just rogue landlords screwing people desperate for a home. And mad Murphy doesn’t even know he is doing it.
Look at the price of houses on north circular road, where odevaney garden is…these houses are affordable in comparison. You buy a affordable house there for 310 thousand, you can walk/cycle to city centre for work and social life….live out in Kildare/Meath and you may pay less but are paying the same in commuting costs such as train/bus/petrol, costing thousands a year and losing time
@Gucky: we’ll just tell the bank that so….simple really.
This clown is .so out of touch
Only an hour away from the beautiful Boora Bog, aaahh that’s the life, a picnic in the Bog and return to the gaff in time for a mince pie,,
Only an hour away from the beautiful Boora Bog, aaahh that’s the life, a picnic in the Bog and return to the gaff in time for a mince pie,,
You see there’s a fundamental problem here where on one side we have a man earning 96,000 per annum told he wouldn’t be expected to pay for his own fuel, food etc out of this wage and is therefore given another 50,000 plus in allowances while on the other side is someone earning 35,000 out of which they are expected to do everything..Murphy is the poshest of the posh boys and so out of touch he’s living on a separate planet to the normal Joe soap.
have your say