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A UNION BOSS says “it is a source of deep concern” that the debate around a Just Transition for Bord na Móna and ESB workers “has only just begun”.
Patricia King, General Secretary of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (Ictu) told an Oireachtas committee today that the conversation about what workers would do after the closure of peat plants should have “started many years ago”.
“At the very least, the government should have taken the lead on this immediately on signing the Paris Agreement in 2016 – an agreement that binds us to specific targets and obliges us to implement a Just Transition,” she said.
“Instead, it appears that official policy constantly struggles to keep pace with events and that jobs are threatened or lost before any support is put in place. Inevitably this leads to fear, uncertainty and distrust among the workers and their communities.
“The current situation in Bord na Mona (BnM) and the ESB is a major test for policymakers,” added King.
She called for a coherent Just Transition framework to address “the real fears” of workers and their communities on the impact of the shift to greener energy production.
In the case of Bord na Móna, she said this would entail programmes to ensure workers could redeploy or re-skill for new green jobs.
“But these programmes are not yet in place,” she said.
Pointing to Budget 2020, she said the government announced some €31 million for retraining initiatives, a retrofit programme, and initiatives on bog restoration, all of which may deliver up to 500 jobs.
“But there is no certainty on this,” said King.
“The shift to a low carbon economy offers significant opportunities for new and decent job creation: in renewable energy generation, deep retrofitting, new infrastructure to reduce energy consumption and better public transport.”
“But the State must take the lead and must commit appropriate investment. The market cannot deliver on the scale that is required,” she told the committee.
King said it was “highly regrettable that Bord na Móna management has consistently refused to utilise the good offices of the Work Relations Commission to engage in a forum with workers, whereby all relevant issues can be discussed and resolved”.
She said it is equally unfortunate that the government while appointing a Just Transition Commissioner, “has explicitly ruled out his having any role in matters pertaining to workers”.
King said it is important to understand that workers and communities across the energy generation sector “are being asked to sacrifice their livelihoods for the greater good of future generations”.
“That creates a moral and social imperative for policy makers to ensure they do not become the collateral damage of decisions taken at a distant remove.
“Bord na Mona and the Midlands will serve as a litmus test for Ireland’s transition to a low carbon economy. If workers and their communities are abandoned to the market then support for the process will evaporate and opposition will grow,” she warned.
Rehabilitating Irish bogs
Also appearing before the committee today was Chief Executive of Bord na Móna, Tom Donnellan.
He outlined the company’s plans to rehabilitate peatland in the Midlands, saying details will be communicated with staff in the coming weeks.
Bog areas in five counties have been identified, said Donnellan, who gave a breakdown of the 210 redeployment opportunities for workers.
He said the jobs to be made available:
Some 400 workers have already left the State-owned company through a voluntary redundancy scheme amid uncertainty about the future.
Bord na Móna announced in 2015 it would fully stop harvesting peat by 2030, and that it was increasing its rehabilitation and restoration of bogs.
Last year, it brought the end of peat forward to 2028, and announced there would be up to 430 job losses as a result of its “decarbonisation plan”.
In order to transition smoothly, Bord na Móna wanted to continue to supply peat along with biomass to be used together to generate electricity at ESB power plants.
However, An Bord Pleanála refused permission for this in July, sparking serious concerns among workers. Bord na Móna has now reached an agreement with ESB that peat-powered electricity plants in Offaly and Lough Ree will continue to operate until the end of 2020.
The Bord na Móna boss said the company will invest €1.6 billion over the next 10 years and will create:
ESB representatives were also in committee today to outline what plans it had in place its workers.
ESB management recently announced that it will close the plants at Shannonbridge and Lanesboro after the government opted to end the harvesting of peat in the region.
The committee was told today that the process of engaging with the 80 people employed in these stations however, they added:
“We cannot confirm our detailed closure plans yet.”
The plans to close will be discussed in the first instance with staff at the stations, committee members were told.
The company said it will be providing workers with redeployment and severance
options, and based on early indications, a number of staff will seek redeployment to other roles within ESB Group.
“We are committed to an orderly closure of the plants and will be commencing our formal engagement with our colleagues on the details of these closures in the coming period,” it said.
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Meanwhile his brother is calling for a road to be built despite environmental concerns over the presence of Kerry snails. I guess it’s ok if the Healy Ray’s can hire out some plant for construction
I believe God gave the go ahead on that one. The Healy-Rae’s seem to have a direct line to discuss political issues with him.
The Healey raes have loads of combustible engines as well in Kerry south so can do some road building as well
Meanwhile in the real world / If only he could be as outraged at the defeat of the 8th amendment bill !!
As a farmer this is wild west stuff .. have these people not hear of food bait further who ordered the killings .. as for TB the testing of aminals is …now about 60 years on the go and a top vet once remarked that this was a con and jobs for the boys…..
The Healy raes are way too friendly with the local planners down Kerry way,snake charmers every one of them.
Got more votes than you ever will
The …ARMY though? What….the Garda can’t handle firearms?
Sure they should have in the Air Corps while they were at it.
Meanwhile they are all getting a payrise
In an absolutely disgraceful state of affairs, under the Lansdowne Road Agreement which was constructed with unions in 2013, is set to reverse pay rise cuts imposed in 2013 on senior public servants.
This means that their current salary of €87,258 per annum will rise to €89,965 on April 1st 2017 and if they’re not satisfied with that, they’re getting yet another pay hike to €92,672 at the beginning of 2018.
How badass were these cows , were they SAS types capable of 007 killing on the main road if they had made it that far . Maybe holding people hostage …. Who know but for sure we will never know now .
LITTLEONE’s favourite topic. Hating anyone who earns more than him. Which, apparently, is a lot of people. Off topic LITTLEONE so bugger off and post elsewhere. We’re tired of your begrudgery.
Good man John r. Giving out about someone giving out . Oh the irony. Are you a td . Since you seem to take it personally.
Pity you can’t comprehend John r that’s this is an article about something a td said today. So bugger off yourself and do your moaning elsewhere.
Can’t stop singing that song COWS WITH GUNS…..
You’d think if the Rae dynasty had any understanding of anything it would be farming, this suggests otherwise…
True… Not many farmers would condone TB reactor cattle being allowed to roam on the road. Somebody on Facebook said that if the army hadn’t shot them, the neighbours would have, an exaggeration perhaps but those neighbours would have been on the phone to the Dept of Ag and the gardai, be sure of it.
Exactly. Healy Rae is thinking there’s a dozen votes in this speech but he will loose hundreds for his lack of understanding
Not being a farmer it seems a bit odd to me that a debt collector can act as a vet to determine TB in these animals, perhaps someone into farming could explain.
Chris, a vet had carried out an inspection on the cattle , you are either trolling or very naive
You´re a tricksy little Hobbit, you.
. if these animals were TB reactors, it means they have already been rounded up by handlers, and were injected by a competent vet, and were then tested a few days later by the same vet
I cannot understand why, if the animals were previously capable of capture, why they are not now capable of capture and veterinary handling. What has changed?
If you read between the lines there’s mention of criminal activity and opening gates. If I had to guess I’d say people that were on happy opened gates and tried to herd the cattle out of the fields to make the bailiffs jobs difficult
So call in the Army then, David?
I can´t believe people can´t see the bigger issue here.
I heard the man on the radio this morning. His herd had a clear test in November. However in February one of his animals was discovered to have lung lesions after slaughter. This is a sign of TB, this would mean the herd would be immediately be restricted and a complete herd test done within two or three weeks. The herd would continue to be restricted until it had two clear TB tests. This is what farmers call ‘being locked up’ meaning animals can only be sold for slaughter, can’t sell in the marts or privately to other farmers. The man didn’t mention any follow up tests, I assume there weren’t any.
It was unlikely these animals that were shot had TB.
I assume neither side of this story can be fully believed and there is obviously bad blood and no good faith between the parties and probably skullduggery involved on both sides. Selling such animals to the factory would be a complete waste as they wouldn’t reach market weight and would not have an adequate level of finish to achieve decent prices. I also assume that the sherif would not have the patience to wait for these animals to be finished to achieve maximum prices given the difficult situation with the indebted farmer and because the herd was locked up they couldn’t be sold on the hoof to people far away from Monaghan which is obviously the best solution all round.
If a vet was able to inspect these cattle for TB how can the same cattle be describe as ‘ out of control’???
@bigus. Totally agree. A lot of condemnation of cruelty to animals, of killing these beautiful creatures – which incidentally probably would have ended up in the slaughter house – yet scant attention to the fact that the army is providing back up for private debt collectors. I’m stunned beyond belief that this is taking place in a so called modern European state. What can we expect next?
Neither sheriff, bailiffs nor debt collectors involved here – it was an official assignee in bankruptcy who was in charge. There’s a difference.
@Anne Marie
If these “beautiful creatures” had come into contact with the Farmer’s neighbour’s herds, and infected them, the cost to the livelihood of those farmers would have been catastrophic. The most humane way to deal with this is exactly what was done. Cattle are a food source, yes we should treat them as humanely as possible, but there only function is to provide food.
the OAIB has no interest in shooting cattle, unless there is a risk to the wider herd or other contamination. it is not unlikely the animals couldnt be contained (as some might do) in light of past interference with the herd and with gates after they were taken over. and who else but the army is going to shoot them, the local archery club?
Wasn’t the farm and livestock being repossessed? Something very odd about the whole thing
Machinery and other assets were removed from the farm in the previous days and the receivers were there yesterday to take the cattle
removal of the remaining 5 cattle was not possible due to security issues over persons involved in previous removals, of which An Garda Síochána are aware.”
Seems they took the option of killing the cows rather than spend time rounding them up.
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/breaking-cattle-shot-on-monaghan-farm-after-receiver-moves-in/&ved=0ahUKEwiS1_Kg6OHNAhUiJcAKHWS5AKoQFggzMAU&usg=AFQjCNHLxXt35vV5TlO2XUVdJmxUDPTEng
Here in London someone could be breaking into your house and kidnapping your children but the police won’t bother coming, but if someone calls a debt collector a parasite for preying on vulnerable people the police will arrive with riot vans. Happened to an elderly guy in the next street over a parking ticket. The old guy does not or never has owned a vehicle. Someone had cloned his identity.
@Craba, out of interest, what’s your function?
I’d like to see proof that it was these 5 cattle out of the herd or 100 or so ( depending on what news you read ) that were the reactors. “TB present in the herd” was what I read. That does not condemn all animal in the herd to death as any farmer would know.
No, but it locks up the herd as you should know. Would you let a heifer from alocked up herd mingle with your own herd?
John, are you the government spokesman, sent here to keep the TB spin going?
@Ross
A very strange question. Was that supposed to be an insult of some sort?
@John
You are surrounded by posters, whose knowledge of the world is through Facebook and Twitter. By people who source their news from the Journal, and similar blog type sites. A lot have difficulty understanding what is actually happening in the real world, so someone like yourself, coming in here with your actual real world knowledge of things is a threat, Hence you must be part of the great conspiracy.
Its a little scary for the future of Ireland . But, a bit like visiting the Zoo, it can be interesting & entertaining at times.
Dave, talk about a storm in a teacup. Is everyone who presents an alternative and sane explanation an agent of Government. Is your capacity to hear a contrary viewpoint so limited ?
This is official assignee for bankruptcy. Not a debt collector. If you want a system of bankruptcy that allows people to get out of debt then you have to have a system of bankruptcy. In the absence if bankruptcy you have an endless period of debt collection with the bankrupt person suffering for a long time. This is what ireland used to have. Now we have a better system. Some people are never happy.
If you cannot pay your debts bankruptcy offers a way out that allows you to get on with your life. But apparently all debt collection or variations on coming to terms with your creditors via a bankruptcy process are wrong. What mad thinking.
You stated that the cows only function is for food. Maybe in your opinion. What is any sentient creatures function? To survive, to breed, to experience life, to feel, to think, to love or be loved? Every creature had a parent who cared for them- they’re not just objects to consume.
If I asked your boss what your function is, they might say to do your job. If I asked your mother what your function is, I’d guess she’d have a different opinion. Those cows have as much right to life as us and to state their ‘function’ is reduced to the only benefit you receive from them is crass.
Ross
Sorry. I forgot what I had written earlier. Fair question. As far as I am concerned, all farm animals have a function. Some are raised for food, some are to produce raw material. My mother would have reckoned my function was to cause her annoyance and pain. (that’s a joke btw). I don’t believe a cow has any concept of its own functionality or that of it calves. If cattle pigs or sheep weren’t raised for food, wool or milk they wouldn’t exist. I do believe though we should treat them in a humane way. But the livelihood of a Farmer and his family is much more important than the life of a cow.
Again, in your opinion. You cannot state such anthropocentric viewpoints as fact. Slave owners a century ago would have had the same attitude towards their slaves. Times and attitudes change, thankfully. You have no idea what is going on in any other creatures mind- humans can only guess at this and more and more studies are showing self awareness in more and more non human animals.
The idea of ‘function’ is entirely subjective. What is a mosquito’s function? What is a humans function? Nothing and everything. To exist and live. From our DNAs perspective, all of our function is simply to procreate.
how long more will cattle have to be tested to get rid of TB ..SOME SAY ITS JOBS FOR THE BOYS and a con game…
@Ross
I quite clearly stated an opinion
Your posts are very academic and would make great discussion points in a philosophy class. Unfortunately the world needs to function. People need to eat.
Are you a vegetarian or vegan?
@craba. You’ve misunderstood my point. I was commenting on the fact that more people were outraged at the fact that the food source was shot rather than the fact the army was used to do it at the behest of a debt collector.
The Raes would probably make burgers out of the reactors and sell them in their shop.
Sorry Anne Marie, I did pick you up wrong.
But on the plus side. I got to have a wonderful philosophical discussion with Ross about life, the universe and sentience
So, if I understand this correctly the farmer went to the courts to declare himself bankrupt and this agent that was rounding up the cattle was doing so in the interest of clearing the farmers debts. If he was, he was doing a bloody bad job of it by killing these heifers, worth €5000 and sending cattle to the factory which would be practically worthless and not waiting 4 months for the 2 clear TB tests that would allow the herd to be sold to maximise its value.
This whole story doesn’t add up and there are obviously factors that are not in the public domain to explain the shear madness of this situation.
@Dave, sorry to piss in your hat but you held it out, I’ve no connection with government. An earlier post here says the man concerned acknowledged on radio that an animal from his herd had a lung lesion a few months ago. That’s the TB issue. That’s enough to make any neighbouring owner of cattle worried about contact.
@Craba, sssssh tell no one about the great conspiracy… Judges, barristers, astronauts, Elvis Presley, Lord Lucan, Shergar…everybody is in on it….Neil Armstrong never went to the moon…
@dDonal, I doubt it. My guess would be that an unsecured creditor petitioned for bankruptcy. If he had petitioned himself, he’d hardly be yowling to the media about it. If it had been a secured creditor, they wouldn’t have needed bankruptcy, they’d go to court for a well charging order and sale order, or a few other alternatives.
Army under instruction from Gardai under advisement by Dept. officials. That’s the pecking order.
@craba, you stated as fact that the livelihood of a farmer is more important than the life of a cow. This is opinion, not a fact. To the cow, her life is infinitely more important, as a slaves life is to a slave. In many humans opinion too, though obviously the minority. Over time minorities can become majorities and opinions change, like values and laws.
I wouldn’t be surprised if, in 200 years time, people look at this article and consider us savages for the way these animals were shot in the field out of pure laziness and inhumanity.
I have a funny feeling you just might be taking the p!ss. If you are, nice one. If not, I’ll just say I had a wonderful bit of beef this evening and I’m planning a good big fry up in the morning.
I might count a few sheep to get me to sleep tonight, unless of course they’ve gone on a work to rule.
What’s your point? You enjoy the taste of meat, so what?
That’s like me debating exploitation of workers in 3rd world sweatshops and you saying you enjoy wearing your new Penney’s t shirt.
“Commenting on the culling, a spokesperson for the Defence Forces said that its role was to assist gardaí in carrying out their work.”
Why then not assist the gardai with their work in reclaiming the streets of dublin from criminals ! Going out and shooting animals, somebodies livelihood, is surely a deplorable act! Amazing how these backup security services are always available to assist balliffs with evictions and to quell anti-water demonstrators ie;gardai in large numbers.
Penney’s t-shirt!!!! You are taking the p!ss.
Sure who else was going to shoot them? The Coast Guard?
The Russians
In soviet Russia, cow kills you. Especially if it is mad as a brush and infected with TB.
They can now say that they saw active service very few can…
There aren’t near enough garda or paramedics in the country but we tolerate a 10,000 strong 9 to 5 army …. If I wanted to be in a military I’d join the french foreign legion…
Many have joined the Legion…most have deserted….
Why don’t u go join the foreign legion .. but before u do explain to me as it us a 9to 5 why some of the members of the Defence Forces have dies overseas ..
They could have caught them, Einstein. It would have cost them 2 or 3 hours from their evening of their evening, but they could have done so.
Pretty sure it’s not 9-5 in lebanon/Syria etc. Silly uneducated comment.
2016 the Monaghan rebellion…..
It’s not 9-5 in Ireland either
Almost all soldiers see ‘active service’, otherwise called operational duties when not using American lingo. Army strength is less than 7000. The entire DF (army, navy & air corps) have established strength of 9500 but are currently 1500 under strength. All of these operational duties are well beyond 9-5. Most join the army to serve their communites (like Gardai, nurses, firemen etc), not to fight wars. Many irish have joined Foreign Legion and other armies. 15% of DF are overseas, versus approx 7% of British & US armoes (per head pop).
DId you ever hear of Lebanon, Kosovo, Chad etc? Who guards your cash in transit from odc’s and subversives? Did your house flood last winter? Go on and join the Foreign Legion, the Irish Army wouldn’t want your attitude.
They should have called Tony Blair and told him the cows could be in London in 45 minutes.
you wouldn’t last an hour in the Legion.
The zoo could have supplied stun guns maybe.
I’d prefer not to stampede, or otherwise traumatise the poor beasts. Situation like that calls for Chris Kyle, not John Rambo. However, anyone who’s ever worked with livestock knows that cattle are governed by consent – short of firearms you won’t beat em one on one. Ever. But, one regular farmer could have coaxed em out with bread, green cabbage leaves, bucket of nuts. Leave him in the field with the beasts for a day and out they’d dawdle. They won’t be strong-armed.
We can’t complain about this fella…we can complain about the eejits who voted for him.
Gombeens.
We need to convince the people of Kerry, I fear complaining to then will only solidify votes for the healy Rae dynasty
We can definitely complain about the rotten-to-the-core poxy transfer voting system that let his absolute plank of a brother get a seat in our Dáil.
Joe proportional representation is the single most fair democratic voting system known to democracies. What exactly are you proposing we replace it with?
How can it be fair that someone who doesn’t get enough votes can benefit from someone who was popular enough not to need some of theirs? I must not be understanding the process properly. What am I missing here?
Welcome to Ireland 2016. Where even debt collectors can get animals shot.
The Official Assignee in Bankruptcy, Chris Lehane, said in a statement that he had made the decision to have the cattle killed after failing to remove all the “wild and dangerous” animals from the farm with “experienced cattle assistants”. “As Official Assignee I have a duty to recover value from assets of bankruptcy estates and it is clearly not in my interests to kill cattle, nor would I do it, without firstly having exhausted every other possible avenue open to me to resolve the problem,” he said
Story seems pretty clear. Debt collectors told Gardaí they could not get the cattle out of there and that people were letting the TB infected cattle out of the fields to roam the roads. Sounds like a bunch of farmers who thought the rules didn’t apply to them were endangering livestock all across the area and left the Gardaí, not the debt collectors, with no other option but to get the army in to shoot the remaining cattle.
Sean. That depends if you believe the debt collectors story .
Why would a debt collector want to shoot animals worth thousands combined?
No neighbouring farmer would do that. Try to figure it out. Hint: their own cattle might get TB…
James . Why does a debt collector do anything? Orders to take assests no matter what.
I wonder what constitutes “experienced cattle assistants” ??? Cattle will go wild if they spooked or illtreated
Probably fellas in Balaclavas. That’s seems the norm these days .
I would have thought they would have asked the vet first alto put the animals down and the vet recommended getting someone’s with more professional firearms training??
Very mooving speech.
I think it was a load of bullocks.
Had the army got the farm steaked out overnight?
The Army and the Garda working in partnership with the debt collection agents. All funded by the taxpayers. Pay up or else. More equality on behalf of the banks and our government. TB my bollox
Nothing in the report says a bank was involved, any creditor can petition for bankruptcy. The role of the army and gardai in this was to uphold the rule of law. If it is true that animals from a herd with a recent recorded infection were allowed to stray, the use of the gardai and army was correct and justified. Every herd of cows in the locality would have been put at risk.
Nothing in the report says it wasn’t a bank either.
Nothing in the report says it wasn’t Al Quaieda, Elvis Presley or a bunch of Klingons from another galaxy. No basis for assuming, from the report, that it was a bank.
Whose assuming? You seem intent to emphasise it wasn’t a bank. Without any evidence. In a number of comments you left. Yours is just an assumption like everyone else’s. But one thing is certain, the animals and machineries being collected for a debt.
@Littleone… Hope you’re keeping up with the story… It wasn’t a bank that petitioned for bankruptcy…
Michael has taken off his cap. A gesture of sympathy to whitehead heifers, perhaps?
@John – No need to be a smart arse this is a man’s and his family livelihood your poking fun at no matter what the circumstances are its not nice to see 5 of your animals which you reared etc shot dead on your farm. Even if they were within there rights to do so.
Spokesman.. The mystery person who let infected animals stray drew this on the farmer. I totally agree it’s not ‘nice’ but it seems to me that if there had been a little more respect for the rule of law it wouldn’t have reached this extreme point.
How do you know that is true that the animals were let stray. How do you know that they were even infected with TB ?
I read it here on the Journal in another thread on this story.
There is no mention of TB from Agriculture Ireland in a letter to clarify the situation.
@John who do you represent. Are you employed by the Dept of Agricultural – you have your nose stuck in this story spreading untruths since it first aired.
@John you have not comment on any other article other than this one. You are a spin doctor for the government and we have cracked you now. I will highlight you as a fraudster in any other article you comment on.
Get out your highlighter then and get busy…I have commented on dozens of articles here, get your facts right please…
Who do you represent
Just a few points, if there was TB present in any cattle on a farm the whole farm is locked down and no animals are allowed to be moved on or off the farm, since these guys had moved other cattle off the farm that morning there’s no way any animals had TB. Also had there been experienced cattle handlers involved there would have been no reason to shoot these animals. Lastly the fact that the army was present and someone then gave the order to shoot the animals is disturbing to say the least.
Frankly I’m shocked that we have army marksmen who can hit a cow from twenty paces.
I lol’d way to much at this.
You’re not in the army, Ben, are you? Ever tried to join?
It’s easy when you riddle them.
Maybe you just don’t know what you are talking about Ben. http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/defence-forces-win-international-sniper-competition-1.2404120
They used general purpose machine guns…only 2 it seems.
@John, you might be correct there. He sounds like someone that was turned down.
Ben…how little you know about our army….have you never heard of their falling plates competitions?
Could they not have called a vet? They shoot animals in these type of situations. Who foots the bill for this?
To remove the animals taxpayer foots the bill
They won’t go into human food chain
If seems they did not have TB Owners have a clear TB test document from dept of Agriculture
Issue seems to be the heifers ran away when the debt collectors tried to catch them They then asked the dept to destroy them
TB story came later as a justification but there is doubt that it is true
Sometimes the vet shoots them too. That’s why they are one of the professions highlighted in the Commissioner’s guidelines.
They could have spoent a few hours that evening rounding them up, cleaning up the mess they caused through incompetence.
There are some grade A pri¢ks on this thread. I can also be a pri¢k, but at most a grade B.
The job of the Army is not to assist in Debt recovery. If the grippers couldn´t organise the removal of these cattle, they should be immediately be disbarred from their current profession. I understand that it is hazardous to have cattle roaming free (running free because these plonkers didn´t know what they were doing), but tough titty. It´s not a national emergency.
Is this the purpose of the Defence Forces?
I don’t particularly like the Healy- Raes. They are usually full of sh!t but he has a point! Army marksmen shooting cows? Is that even legal? And is there such a thing as a vet for this kind of thing?
They used the army to save money, vets are expensive.
100% legal and part of protocol. Last resort because some Eijit let dangerous cows outside an enclosure.
I think it was the smell of laundered diesel that put them mad.
There is a background. Originally from Northern Ireland. Big house just across the border in the south. In the fuel business. Filling station in Ardee and the CAB is sitting on his backside. Time is running out for these boys. They had it too good for too kind. What goes round comes round.
Is his place the farm and house mentioned here:
http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/prices-down-in-2008-26503779.html
Top dollar at the bottom of the recession?
@John. That’s it.
Amy and John are you both saying that this action was based on who or what the farmer in question Might be and that your innuendo regarding his ‘ being from the north or his alleged connection to an oil business, is somehow justification for this action… If so then it is a complete uusurption of the rule off law and court system by state forces and private banking working in tandum!!!
Very scary stuff!!!
Show me where there is a mention of a bank? And.. No.
I was wondering why there were so many ridiculous post against the shooting of the cattle. Obviously the Provisional Army of Journal posters have been mobilised to muddy the waters.
John;The official assignee was working on a bankruptcy based on a €300,000 disputed ‘personal guarantee’. If that ain’t a private bank debt what is it???? And if it isn’t about who or what the farmer is ALLEDGED to be then what is your previous post and support of Amy’s post about??
@ m Bowe, I didn’t ‘support’ Amy’s post, please don’t misrepresent me. I don’t know what the debt represents so don’t ask me, but it’s not reasonable to assume it’s a bank without confirmation. It could be, but it could be a lot of other things.
@M Bowe… So it wasn’t a bank after all…. Bang away with the red thumbs….
No TB tests had been committed, no proof whatsoever of any presence of TB.
Why were soldiers and Gardai sent for a financial matter between private parties?
Several witnesses state that the cows were shot simply because there wasn’t enough transport available to take them all off in one go.
I agree 100% with him ,strangers and the carry on around the farm upset the cattle, if the farmer was allowed to collect the cattle into a pen with the enticement of cattle nuts these cattle could have been sold or taken to a factory where the farmer would have been paid for his livestock.It was a wild west solution.
Yea they would let him sell TB riddled cows that are out of their pen and out of control… get real lad
Healy-Rea is quite correct. The destruction of five heifers in South Monaghan was a disgrace, and this needs to be thoroughly investigated. It is said that there was a Bank involved in repossessions or something like that. How would it be necessary to shoot cattle for public safety, that is a nonsence. There was also mention of prevention of spread of TB, another nonsense . There is someone seriously at fault here, and it needs to be exposed. No point in hiding behind bullsh.t stories. Let’s get to the bottom of this. Did people who know nothing about animals drive all mad and then loose the run of themselves?.
Our army couldn’t control 5 cattle so decide to shoot them ! I’d hate to see if Isis attacked we’d be sincerely screwed. A**seholes !
^ this comment enshrines everything that’s wrong with politics. No understand and arguments so outrageous there is no point replying
Yet you did!
They did control them. Do you honestly think they had any say in the matter? They recieved a lawful order to cull the cattle. The soldiers didn’t ‘decide’ anything, they just done thier job.
Yeah – God help us if ISIS attacked, why the army would probably shoot them too!
Make a new profile, No2. The jig is up.
Journal commentators of late seem to be coming from the bottom of the gene pool. Not a brain cell among most of you commenting on this story…..the shot heifers have more sense dead than most of you living turds.
The presence of a debt collector suggests that the shooting of the cattle was punishment for non payment of debts. If that is the case, Michael Healy Rae is right
Are you stark raving mad, or just on a wind-up?
John, the comment above shows how little is known about this story.
There’s a lot more to this than is being reported at the minute. Some have already hinted at the full story in the comments above.
Hopefully it will start to come out in the next few days and everything will become clearer.
And here it is.
The full story in today’s irish times.
We need a proper report on exactly what happened it does not make any sense it is just barbaric that is no way to treat a dumb animals it is a very sad reflection on Irish Society as for the comments they are mostly very sad
There is one produced by the gardai. It explains why this action was appropriate.
Well that was entertaining to watch… The pinnacle of Irish politics, culchie farmer rant about cows.
Donchaya know the army be shooting me cows and like. It’s outrageous! outrageous…outrageous…outrageous. I can barely contain myself like… Jesus Mary And Joseph, to think they can just coming around the hill and shooting me diseased cows… what in the world like!
The healy rays… what an absolute embarrassment to have those in our government buildings. Clare Day makes an impassioned speech about the hardships and torture that parents go through and the healy rays are caught up with snails and cows. Get a grip you pair of imbaciles. Kerry people should be ashamed of themselves having voted those two in. Brutal Fr. Ted politicians. Of it wasn’t so bloody serious it’d be laughable.
Joe McMahon Did you not see Clare Daly on Tonight With Vincent Browne last night making basically the same points as Michael Healy-Rae? She pointed out that things have become even more despicable in this country when soldiers are ordered to kill cattle on behalf of a debt collector, that there are serious animal welfare questions to be answered, that the farmer, who obviously needed the money if debt collectors have raided him, could have sold the cattle if allowed and that the treatment of small debtors is in marked contrast to the banks etc we have all been forced into bailing out when they let their debts get out of hand. Just because you don’t like Michael Healy-Rae doesn’t mean all he says is stupid or ‘an absolute embarrassment’.
The farmer was running out to save his cows…the cows were running to their farmer to be saved.its all very jon snow riding out to save rickon…if only the cows(and rickon) had zigzagged!!!!
They used to be his cows, they’re not since he was declared a bankrupt, and he would have had plenty of notice of that.
Says the man who appeared in a documentary about himself, waving guns around.
What does he use an automatic rifle for, shooting tin cans?
So the arrival of the debt collector coincidentally happened to occur at the precise time of multiple shootings???? Oh, I’m fully sure it’s all perfectly normal and not some callous attempt to intimidate some poor farmer…..
This is criminal activity by Chris Lehane the ‘brains’ behind this act of barbaric behaviour. The man must be sick in the head and deserves to be prosecuted for blatant animal cruelty and also question the ‘abilities’ of the defence forces who shot all around them. This is cruelty and is all about vultures ripping through a man’s livelihood and for what? The cows cannot be consumed by humans and have no re-sale value so who pays the cost of the bullets and for the Gardaí and incompetent defence forces? What a low life
Have a read of today’s irish times.
You’ll get the full story and you attitude might change.
Unless of course you think “Good Republicans” are above the law.
Army rangers .it’s a good job the cattle were not armed
If you can’t move the cattle on does that make you a steakholder
Banks can hire Guards and Army to slaughter animals, State can’t get them to protect citizens and catch organised crime gangs or drug importers.
There are serious problems in this country around banks , the sherif, and the way bad debt is pursued.
It’s descarceful carry on.
Yea because like cows organised crime just sits around in a field gathering diseases… get real man. What’s disgraceful is your lack of understanding of how basic things work
Jeez Mick, calm down. It’s not like they shot 5 of your kids! Unless……….
Only God and Slaughterhouse Workers can kill cows…
Are you really that incapable of seeing the bigger picture?
General comment : F.*&ing muppet
According to the owner of the cattle ( speaking on the radio this morning ) the cattle were tested a couple of months ago for TB & the test came up clear. I think their should be an indenpend vet should re/examine the carcuses again. Because there is s big coverup going on here. Shame on people that gave the order to shoot the cattle. Why isn’t the farm corned off & everybody wearing white protective clothing & been washed down with disenfecent. Just like the last time we had an out brake of TB. There should be a big inquiry into this & jail the culprits.
What a coincidence that when bailiffs come grabbing it is discovered that 5 head of cattle have TB, without a vet. How opportune that a bailiff should happen to have gardaí and soldiers at his beck and call when they want to do a public protection service in case any sick cattle start bothering the rest of us!
He was offered the rural affairs ministry but turned down. Has no interest in actually adding to society. Huffs & puffs but when it came to it he didn’t want any responsibility.
Why not just let the Farmer Keep them .
There is a cover up here, this case needs a Special Enquiry urgently. There is no point in Government Ministers coming out here and trying to cover up what happened. Time for Decent Irish People to stand up and be heard. This carry on cannot be acceptable in this country anymore. We now hear that the cattle were in the control of the ” Official Assignee” . . What is that supposed to mean?., can he or she decide on the spot to shoot on sight. People of Ireland stand up to bullies.
Whoop another enquiry. Who do you want to get the brown ebvelope this time Eugene? Why don’t we let the healy Rae dynasty claim some cash on it?
Can’t take this man seriously. He dresses like Darby O’Gill. Annoying
The same man thinks it ok for women to have critically ill children and watch them suffer their whole lives. Will he adopt a Downs Syndrome baby — he could easily afford it.
They were taken out accurately and quick, something thats not afforded to them in many slaughterhouses
Keep your hat on michael..
The whole thing seemed fishy to me, dog in the manger vengence style madness to me?
the army and the people involved in the shooting of 5 animals on a farm in monaghan should be shot themselves,,,,but i know for sure it will return to haunt them ..what goes around comes around….
we in this country have thrown money at people who live freely here,,,and a farmer who obviously was in need of financial aid ,had to suffer a distressing event on his farm,,,,
i hope ye rot in hell,
He shouldn’t be so MOOdy! He was seen talking to minister barry COWan the UDDer day about it.
It’s a far better death than they’d have gotten in the slaughterhouse
“It is understood that the animals had TB”. Isn’t there a process for dealing with TB infected animals ? That doesn’t involve Army snipers.
In any case that TB story sounds like a spun up afterthought. I agree with Healy-Rae on this one.
have your say