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THE GOVERNMENT IS willing to go “as far as it takes” to vindicate its position on the Public Services Card, Minister Regina Doherty said today.
At a meeting of the Oireachtas Committee on Employment Affairs and Social Protection, Minister Doherty clashed with TDs and Senators over the Data Protection Commissioner’s landmark report into the Public Services Card.
She denied that it was ever the case that the PSC was envisioned as a national identity card.
She also denied that people would be “forced down a tunnel” to get a PSC as the only means to access public services. Some TDs and Senators argued to Doherty that this simply wasn’t the case when it came to the likes of first-time passports and for the time being on the newly-launched National Childcare Scheme, and this prompted angry exchanges at the committee this morning.
PSC
The Public Services Card (PSC) was originally introduced for accessing welfare payments, but the government had begun to roll out its requirement for other non-welfare services, including for driver licences and passport applications.
In August this year, the Data Protection Commissioner (DPC) ruled the use for any department other than welfare which required the PSC for services would be illegal. It also ruled that the department’s retention of data relating to people’s application for their PSC was unlawful.
The government has signalled that it doesn’t agree with the DPC’s findings and won’t be complying with them.
While the DPC’s investigation was ongoing and public concerns had been raised about the card, government ploughed ahead with plans at making a PSC mandatory for other public services such as passports and driving licences. As recently as the summer, civil servants were told to look at the possibility of the PSC replacing the medical card.
Despite this unwillingness to back down, other services that the PSC was made mandatory have backed down already. The requirement for a mandatory for PSC for first-time passport holders has been dropped, as has the requirement for those seeking to become naturalised citizens.
An area where the government hasn’t backed down is on the newly-launched National Childcare Scheme. Until January, the only way parents can apply for the scheme is by having a PSC.
Government defence
In her opening statement, Minister Doherty said that the “genesis” of the PSC had come in the 1990s and its “purpose has always been clear” in terms of creating a more “integrated” approach to the delivery of State services.
Doherty highlighted initial efforts from Fianna Fáil governments in power prior to Fine Gael who put in place legislation to underpin the PSC.
Over 3 million people in Ireland have been issued with a card since its initial rollout in 2011.
The minister claimed that the public is very satisfied with the PSC, based on research commissioned by her department, and that she and her department had considered the DPC’s damning report on the PSC “carefully”.
“Following this consideration, it was concluded that the processing of personal data related to the PSC does, in fact, comply with legal requirements, that document retention is lawful and that the information provided does satisfy the transparency requirements,” she said.
The DPC has advised my Department that an enforcement notice is being prepared which will be issued to the Department in respect of this investigation… This may include a referral to the Courts.
That enforcement notice from the DPC has yet to be issued.
Testy exchanges
Committee members, among them Fianna Fáil’s Willie O’Dea and Sinn Féin’s John Brady, queried the Attorney General’s legal advice that there was a strong legal basis underpinning the card.
Doherty said: “This is a simple case of two people interpreting legislation in a different way. I’m doing my job and the Data Protection Commissioner is doing hers.
The Attorney General’s advice is as robust as it could have been.
Minister Shane Ross pulled the requirement for making a PSC mandatory for a driving test, but Doherty said that was a question for Ross.
She said that such is their legal advice that to deviate from what they’re doing from the PSC now would in fact be illegal.
Doherty also said at several junctures that there were alternative means whereby people could apply and use government services without a PSC.
“There’s an artificiality about the whole process,” Fianna Fáil’s O’Dea said. “Some of her answers were disingenuous to say the least.”
He then raised a query about anyone making school transport appeals needing a PSC. “That was certainly the direction in which it was going,” he said.
Doherty asked O’Dea to request a “proper briefing” from whoever was giving him information because that wasn’t the case.
“Again, with respect, stating anecdotally that things were definitively the way things were going with no basis of fact does actually more disservice of you and is more disingenuous of you,” she said.
In fact, school transport appeals were under the government’s plans for future requirements for the PSC. According to this document dating back a number of years which is still available on the department’s website, it was part of the government’s PSC plans.
O’Dea added that the government refusing to accept the DPC’s report is undermining that office, and he accused Doherty of being “condescending” when addressing the issue.
The minister said it was O’Dea’s Fianna Fáil’s government that brought forth the “vast majority” of legislation which underpins the PSC. O’Dea said the legislation underpinning the PSC is unlawful but Doherty said he was wrong.
“I won’t lower myself to be as rude to you as you’ve just been to me,” she said.
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Good fun watching them play separate parties.
FFG are one…
Like most other issues, FG have royally made a balls of the PSC.
@P Quinn: It’s just more law breaking to add to an already existing mountain of Fine Gael law breaking.
What a c u next tuesday
I like the idea of a one card for all services. There is no doubt, Doherty was hoping to morph this card into an Identity Card through applying its mandatory use in other public service area in a sneaky creeping backdoor manner.
I have been opposed all my life to a national ID card but the world has changed dramatically and our safety and security is under threat as never before from groups such as Isis and their fellow travellers. Therefore I support the extension of the PSC but lets just call it a National ID Card and be done with it.
@Gino Brancato: not a hope its a gateway to a facist state.
@Gino Brancato: war of Indepence, civil war, two world wars and cold war nuclear threat. These were all far greater threats to our security and safety and yet we endured despite the lack of a PSC card. It is in fact a very safe time to be alive with the only real threat to our safety and security coming from global issues of climate change and environmental destruction and the ensuing issues resulting. That is in fact what poses an existential threat to us and which the government seems to have very little concern about dealing with. Those are the issues you should be concerned about and which will have a real impact on our lives.
@Chris OB: we are already there
Okay, Journal, you win. I get that you need to tidy up the comments section at times, and we can get a bit carried away here with our feedback. Whilst I applaud the overall venture, and the fact that it’s free, let’s not kid ourselves; the comments section provides the oxygen that allows The Journal to punch above its weight (if you will pardon the mangled metaphor…).
So if you keep deleting comments, you will be accused of bias, even by moderates such as myself. What’s it going to be, Journal? Perhaps you just need to let it fly, and have a little faith. And if there are some off-colour remarks, assume (usually correctly) that decent folk will be along soon to readdress the balance, and give them a ticking off.
Please don’t send us to RTE. It’s so anodyne. It’s magnolia. And, let’s face it, there are generally no comments either. Let us have our say. Otherwise I’ll just have to take my ball and bugger off. And I know I will miss you more than you will miss me, but in the end, if you have no readers… well, what’s the point?
Why is the journal taking down most of the comments on this article ?
Is the journal totally FG controlled ?
@Pius Flynn: yes in a nutshell
The current legislation is VERY clear.
The card is only mandatory for use with Department of Social Protection services.
Nothing more or less.
Others demanding they it MUST be produced by law, are absolutely lying. No if or buts.
@Unitedpeople: … demanding THAT it must be produced…
Doherty is before the committee to answer questions . The fact she stated she won’t lower herself only adds to the arrogance of this paracetic woman.
Is there a link to see this live or what’s left of it…may be interesting
@Eoin Doyle: thk
She has to be the most obnoxious T.D.EVER she has a face like a slapped a##e. or typical ffg. er
@Aishling Carslake: Whatever about that, it’s interesting how she attempts to point the finger at FF to blame for the card for introducing the legislation, in her words, to underpin it. What could FG do then but run with it?
There was no need for what had been introduced. Some requirement for Social Welfare payments had long been called for, yet the PSC had become mandatory for other Public Services and the data retained. As others have said, there was no threat, no urgent need and forcing people to get a card does not equate to satisfied customers. Clearly our own Data Protection Commissioner disagrees with her and the government, perhaps if they were more open and honest about what they were doing and why the outcome may have been different. As things stand I don’t think anyone would believe her, about anything. She has zero credibility.
She’s right she shouldn’t lower herself . The trolls will be like ants crawling out to make the negative comments
@Margaret Mcgarry: Excuse me! As a regular troller around these parts, I take exception to being called an ant! At least grant us beetle or cockroach status.
@Margaret Mcgarry: your right she shouldnt lower herself because if she did she would be under ground, and why does she always have to look like a rabbit caught in headlights, she doesnt know what she is talking about she is reading from a script….
@Margaret Mcgarry: she wouldn’t lower herself to pay her taxes either
@Margaret Mcgarry: Spoken like a true blueshirt… anybody who criticise the paracites is now deemed a troll.. Unlike Leo and his cohorts the ordinary Joe soap has no access to PR. Companies paid for by the taxpayers.
@Margaret Mcgarry: She’s a waste of space. Inept and has failed as a TD. I hope she fails to get elected in GE2020.
It is a PUBLIC SERVICES CARD, plural, public, & medical cards, driving licences, tax certs, passports, et al, are components of our social structure which do very badly need to be co-ordinated to prevent errors,fraud & criminality, including terrorism.
The state needs to know those in the state it is responsible to protect in health & security, & no one has any right to drop out.
It may well be described as a big brother scheme, but we don’t seem to have much objection to voluntarily signing up to all of the on line media systems which spy into every aspect of life, so why the objection to one which helps the state to run better?
@William Kelly: Such is your poor comprehension of the the seriousness and the gravity of this card, you equate it to people freely giving their information to social media platforms. I can leave ANY social media platform whenever I wish. The same cannot be said for PSC holders. We have survived for decades without such a card. Its costing more to implement and run than it is saving through any of the activities you mention. How about researching the full facts, rather than shooting of a comment based on the FG political book of the day?
Time to give her a go in the swing and push like f**k
Can you go lower than low?
What’s the point in having a Data Protection Commissioner if you can just ignore his rulings ?
Someone should take Regina to the vet and put her out of our misery.
Our version of Rebecca Bailey Long… Not too bright.
How can she lower herself any lower when she’s the lowest of the lowest disgusting person
Doherty is as useless as most of her colleagues but regarding the card, I don’t know what all the fuss is about
We should have a national identity card for all.
@John Tobin: what’s a passport then?Or even a passport card?
have your say