@Mary Hennessy:
Just over 4% of the population are unemployed, a term known as full employment, yet people can’t even afford homes due to: the rental crisis, affordable-housing crisis, and homeless crisis. All caused by unfettered regulation of the housing market.

Right now, we pay 40% to 50% of wages on rent alone (excluding bills). Not to own the home, but just to rent. If this is not too much rent to pay then what is?

@Craic_a_tower: Actually a child of a tenant is not entitled to as you say take up the house.To do that the child has to be on the rent forms for at least at 2yrs..There income is then added to parents which increaes the rents due for house.The reason there is a shortage of council homes is not due to some not all tenants buying there homes in the 80s which yes you could do through council schemes.Later though you applied to a bank to buy your home off council at standard rate.Also building council homes was virtually stopped by FF in the late 90s as they pushed towards private housing.FG carry on the the mantra still.Profit is everything now housing is a commodity.

@Craic_a_tower: people like to blur the lines between genuine on the street homeless and those who are playing the system for a free house. The genuine homeless are the ones who suffer when this happens. People really need to start to seeing beyond the propaganda

@Kay Keane: So what I said was right you are just squabbling over the fact they have to live there 2 years for them to be allowed. Never said there was no restriction. It also marries up with what I said about why some people don’t say they are living there. The don’t say they are living there to keep the rent low and the other entitlements they can get for living alone. Yes council estates were slowed due to them creating long term antisocial issues that we are still dealing with 70 years later. You did miss the huge social housing developments like Ballymun that happened.

@Mary Hennessy: Did you miss this story? The first tenant evicted for rent arrears ever by Dublin City Council, over half of tenants in arrears as rent arrears hit almost €33m across just this one councils properties.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/first-dublin-city-council-social-housing-tenant-to-be-evicted-for-rent-arrears-1.4085923

@Craic_a_tower: total utter nonsense

@Shazam37: stop your being outrageous

@Craic_a_tower: The reason for the shortage of social housing stock is because FG Government didn’t ensure the increase of social housing stock for several years despite the demand and taking into account the increase in population!For example in 2015 the LAs only built 75 social houses( ,a 94% decrease from 2010!!!)and there were at least 90,000+ households on social housing waiting lists!
UCD Research showed that 43% of social housing tenants purchased their houses since 1996& many low income workers live in social houses which were the only houses they could afford to buy! Social housing was built originally as housing for low income workers.
These tenants who became buyers then took over the extra maintenance ie structural responsibility for their houses which must have resulted in yearly savings for the local authorities plus the purchase prices which could have added extra revenue for the LAs.If subsequently houses sold because either the tenants who became buyers died or they could afford more expensive housing then those houses joined the housing stock again either for purchase or buy to rent!

@Craic_a_tower: One of the main causes of family homelessness according to DRHE research was tenants getting NOTs&losing their private rented accommodation& ‘research has shown that many families defer presenting to homeless services by moving in with friends or family’!
So you are 100% incorrect!

@Niall Dunne: the median wage is way below 35k

@Pseudonym: In fairness, homes are priced on two full time wages these days and the average full time wage in Dublin is way above 35k

@Melissa Mahony: Reading the article excluding child benefit which all parents get,she is a carer and a guardian of 2children which aren’t her own.She gets :carer’s allowance €358.20 a week
: guardian payment €352 a week
:a monthly domcilliary care allowance €309
Total per month:€2840.80
Total per year :€37,797.60 for her family with 6 children.
She was in court offering bail for a relative but judge wouldn’t accept it as he stated she was already clearly burdened with huge responsibilities but of course you failed to highlight this in your comment!!

@Wheresmyjumper: Oh, lord. Education is VITAL, dear. Please look into some.

@Wheresmyjumper: Typical Blueshirt I’m all right jack attitude. Telling people to “work harder” for housing at the moment is like telling people to work harder for potatoes during the famine. We have a housing famine in this country. If it keeps up we are going to have the type of societal problems Japan with low birth rates and social isolation

@Melissa Mahony: went back two years to find 1 case to prove your point. Nice one straw man

@Marianne: Do you believe that people who refuse to work should be just handed free homes?

@Melissa Mahony: if the alternative is them sleeping rough then yes

@Tee Carr: my hard working parents made sure i worked hard and got a good education, hence i have a house I earned

@Wheresmyjumper: I have an education and a masters. Work a professional job. I pay 900 a month in rent. How can I save a deposit?

@Niall Dunne: ya to be fair that is impossible, the ability to have paid rent over a number of years should be taken into consideration when getting a mortgage and not having a deposit, but that guy with the “Leo ya Pr#ck” deserves nothing

@Marianne: people travelled up to dublin to attend the march -it wasnt just people who live in dublin there who attended . i know people who went from tipperary and from waterford … also did you ever think that maybe people from other parts of the country couldn’t get the time off or dont have the money to go up to dublin ?

@Wheresmyjumper: You utter clown, open your eyes and don’t just believe the spin.

@Caoimhin O’Murchadha: thanks for that, I could do that or I could believe my own experience which is i’ve worked hard and I own an average house to match my average job and car

@Wheresmyjumper: ok boomer.

@Melissa Mahony: Did you see how little that woman earns as a full time carer? And she’s also looking after two other children. How much would it cost the State to pay two people to take care of their young citizens around the clock? She attended court to support her brother. She offered her tiny savings to do so. The judge declined as she is already responsible for caring for several people and shouldn’t be asked to shoulder any further burdens. And that is the case that you chose to “prove” something. The fact that one Irish citizen is providing care for several others. Certainly she isn’t wealthy. Big crime, except that she, your example, has done nothing wrong and was seeking to help another human being.

@Wheresmyjumper: ohhhhh well done you you condescending prat

@Niall Dunne: You are so wrong,bought our first home in 1979, interest rates skyward of 16%, our families kept us alive, helped and educated us in DIY, gave us old furniture which we were so glad to take,no holidays, no car and two working full time. It is not what you describe and now we support adult children and grandchildren so their parents can work and put a roof over their heads, it’s what families do.

@Honeybee: interest rates don’t affect the ability to get a loan just the cost of it. People literally cannot get on the ladder because the costs are way out of reach of the average person.
On an average wage in Dublin you can get 120,000 from the banks. Lets say you want to leave in a modest area like Tallaght or Walkinstown (where I am from), your looking at 225,000 at the lowest for a 1 bed. Now how do you save that extra 100,000? Say if you earn a wage of 35k a month. Thats circa 2,400 a month after tax. To rent a single room in Dublin it ranges from 700 – 900 a month so lets say 800. Take away another 100 for bills. Left with 1500. So in order to spend ten years saving a deposit for a 1 bed in Tallaght you need to live for 10 years on 500 a month. Thats just not possible and thats the reality of life for young people. Do not tell me things where harder in your day. No one really buys cars anymore except the rich the insurance is too high. The only thing we have are holidays thanks to Ryanair but trust me when you talk to people in “poorer” countries and hear their quality of life compared to ours you feel utterly depressed

@Niall Dunne:

Property ownership is not a right.

@Wreck Tangle: a home is

@Niall Dunne: I am not in competition with you,I perfectly understand your position and have adult children in the same boat. But your looking back is jaundiced on the reality of life for us in our attempts to buy a home,I could elaborate on when we married and my salary was cut in half ( this was legal at the time in taxation terms) and also taking your job once you married, bridging finance was a certainty, in effect a second loan to qualify for a mortgage plus application and acceptance fees for same. Then as now the situation was dire but somehow over years we prevailed. Do not lose hope, I fully support you and I do believe supports will happen even if forced on this indifferent government, everyone has a right to a home, those who can manage to buy privately and those that our society need to help to get there.

@Wreck Tangle:

Well said, there are too many of these delusional fools on the average wage who believe they are entitled to property ownership. Renting property is all that can be expected by those who have underachieved in life. Facts of life.

@Wreck Tangle: I have a masters and a degree. Work full time. Wages are not high in Dublin outside of Engineering and IT. If anything college was a mistake, too many with degrees competing for the same jobs lowering professional wages. Trades seem much more lucrative than college at the moment

@Colonel Grant: piss off Leo. Working people are not underachievers

@Niall Dunne:

Well Niall you have your answer. You chose the wrong education and I share your pain, I left college with a useless degree that gave no salary benefit. You look about the same age as me, by the time we retire, the age will be at least 70. Dublin is a great place to do part time education and you still have a long time to benefit from reeducating yourself!

@Wreck Tangle: that’s crap. You have bought into the neo liberal idea that only the rich have a right to a life. I like what I do. If you think people on the average wage are delusional for wanting to buy a home ultimately you are excluding 60% of the population from home ownership. Enjoy building gates around your community to keep out the Rio style shanty town if your ideas stick

@Wreck Tangle: if the average wage means most earn less than how are people unsuccessful for being average? You make no sense

@Wreck Tangle: “Someone earning 35k probably hasn’t achieved much academically and isn’t contributing a lot to their employer.”

You’re a right tool aren’t you, so every single person earning less than 35k a year is an uneducated drain on their employer?

@Niall Dunne: Plenty of millennials buying houses stop putting your inadequacies on the government and other people. Take ownership of your situation and do something about it. if your not making enough and want to make more retrain get a better job work a side job. Housing in Dublin will never be fixed just like every other major city around the world affordable housing is not possible it’s expensive to live in a major city deal with it or move out.

@Niall Dunne:

I grew up in a working class family and I decided I didnt want to struggle in life like my parents. And you are 100% correct. The richer you are, the richer your life. The point you seem to miss is anyone that wants it can work for it!

You want to stay in a job that doesn’t contribute enough to justify a high salary (because you like it), you think it’s ok to be average and you want money to fall from the sky to provide you with a home.

I answered some obscure statement that you made about Switzerland on another post. I actually live here. Low tax, very low unemployment, most qualified workers, highest salaries in the world.. I’m really lucky and find myself in top 10% bracket of earners. My Mrs is in top 5%. Despite this, it will take us about 15 years to save to buy our own home. This is the case for most people which is why Switzerland has the lowest property ownership across Europe.

@Wreck Tangle: those countries have security of tenure, basically it’s your home. That’s not the way in Dublin. People need to buy in Ireland because it’s not possible to rent long term without moving 50 times at the mercy of landlords.
Also renting is effectively a tax on being poor. You have to pay a premium because the banks don’t think you earn enough for a mortgage. It’s like making people on the dole shop in m and s

@Niall Dunne:

“Also renting is effectively a tax on being poor.” Doesn’t make any sense when the richest country in mainland Europe has the lowest property ownership.

Furthermore if you look at the macro economics across the eurozone. There is a direct correlation between high GDP and low property ownership with the exception of Ireland and Luxembourg which can hardly be counted as a country! The economies with higher ownership are also the ones that crashed.

“those countries have security of tenure, basically it’s your home. That’s not the way in Dublin.” Also not true, I have 3 months notice in my contract that I can receive at any time..

@Wreck Tangle: You’re a snob and have very little understanding of what is going on here. People on far more than the average wage would struggle when most are paying the guts of a grand a month for rent.

@Aidan: also a grand a month is not to rent an apartment, its a room

@Niall Dunne: sorry mate. Just because you like what you do doesn’t mean you should be able to afford to buy a house.
A masters means nothing really either, that could be in Ancient Greek mythology for all anyone knows.
Poor career choice I think….

@Aidan:

Just because I have drive to achieve what I want in life, doesn’t make me a snob. I’d rather be who I am than a cry baby who sits around blaming everyone else.

@joe:

Don’t try to talk reason with self pity Joe!

@Wreck Tangle: I’m not blaming anyone else but if you think the low levels of home ownership and low levels of home ownership are not as a result of Government policies then you’re ignoring the issue. Not that it’s any of your business but I bought a house this year and worked very hard for it. I also had somelucky breaks (born into a financially stable family, getting lucky with cheaper rent than most people) and can recognise that just because not everybody is as fortunate as that, that doesn’t mean they don’t have drive and ambition. That’s why I called you a snob. Nobody should be given free stuff in my opinion but housing should be affordable relative to average wages. That the average house in the Greater Dublin area costing approximately 10 times the average salary is not ok.

@Honeybee: Your from my generation, when I got married first I worked as a tradesman, we bought our house, went on holidays and my wife stayed at home to rare our kids, this was possible then because wages were good, wages have not stayed in line with the cost of living thanks to FG/FF Tory policies of making the rich even more rich, 12 hour days are the norm now with no such thing as overtime, kids don’t see their parents anymore and have a better relationship with the women in the crèche.

@Aidan:

This isn’t just an Irish problem. This is the nature of property and cities. Look at Zurich. Top 10% means a person is making 120k or more. An apartment suitable for a single person will cost over 1M, apartment for family, will set you back 1.5M plus, if you want a 3 bed house and a garden 2M. This is in a place where most people are making between 60 and 80k. This is a global issue created by quantitive easing flooding global markets with money (demand increase) without governments ensuring that the supply was also increased.

I wasn’t like you. I went and bought a house that I shouldn’t have been able to afford, my brother did the same. Both of us did it on single incomes. At one point I was working in an office, going to college 3 nights a week and working in croke park on Sundays. It was the whole afternoon and I think I got 60 euro for it but it paid for my lunch Mon-Fri and was an extra 720 at the end of the year.

I have sympathy for many people but not people who say I have a masters and I should get a high salary and its the IT people getting the money and I dont want to be an IT person because I like my job. Then its TOUGH!

I didn’t mention my opinion on the government. If you’re interested. I am proud to be Irish and I miss living there terribly. But as a younger guy I thought there is no future for me because the government and entire civil service are incompetent!

@Wreck Tangle: I’d agree on that last point.

@Niall Dunne: by the way if you’re from Tallaght why are you renting. Live at home and save like everyone else that has the option to does!

@Colonel Grant: facts of life? What a despicable waste of oxygen, a mouth breather no doubt.

@joe: A home should be a right which is not compromised by other factors. Society recognised this for many, many decades right up until the 1990s.

@Niall Dunne: Thatcher would be proud of the FFG coalition.

@Wreck Tangle: you forget the fact that some people are leaving their homes at 5am to travel to work, a vicious circle of drudgery. How the hell have they time to better themselves with college, or a second job. Some of these people have already been to college, but it seems that’s just not enough, the minimum nowadays is a masters, (more money) or PhD. It’s just a vicious circle. People on here saying they had high interest rates and bridging years ago, it’s just not the same. They can’t get finance to start with because house prices are beyond the reach of the common man, hard working or not.

@Marie Agnew: well that’s what happens when you open education to everyone. It becomes the new norm and therefore doesn’t represent an achievement anymore.

@Niall Dunne: to be fair it was the 45 age group who started water marches aswell as all age groupes they will march for the rights of their children and grandchildren to a home

@Niall Dunne: I have seen you debate and debate here but all good debaters have a solution. Free stuff for everyone is not an answer or solution. Higher tax that will be needed for free stuff is lessening the amount of money to buy. Lowering the central bank regs will mean costs going up as there will be more people buying. Pushing taxes on big companies will mean lay offs as some will leave. I suppose taxing vulture funds, making banks pay some tax and making sure multinationals pay the full 12.5% would help a lot. Making sure people that are offered houses take them. Never sell council houses to tenets and when they are financially well enough off it’s given to someone who needs it. Finally security of tenancy. That would be my solution. What’s yours?

@John fitzpatrick: Simply solution. Build 100,000 social apartments in high rise buildings in Dublin to be let to people at cost rental of 15-20% of their income.
This means the houses in the suburbs with people sharing will be opened up to families. In areas like Clondalkin, Skerries, West of the M50 where there are Green Spaces build 5 or 6 Crumlins. This will solve the crisis. These homes are not free the people living in them will pay for them over time renting and do not allow people buy ownership so they stay in the hands of the council.
To pay for this programme, increase property tax on home owners, increase inheritance tax, increase the rate of tax on people earning over 100,000. Dont increase the corporation tax but enforce the effective rate. Stop spending on HAP and start housing people instead.

@Niall Dunne: If those 100,000 Social apartments were built, they would be immediately taken up largely by immigrants.
Then if another 100,000 free apartments were build then another 100,000 people from all over the EU would come here to get their free apartment..

@Tim McCormack29: and theres the racist. Popping up his grotesque little head like whack a mole.

@Niall Dunne: so your answer is more tax? Genius

We have one of the lowest tax takes in Europe. Taxing people on 100k, and joint incomes hasnt been ruled out, means many would leave and corporations would lose talent. Its balance some of what you are saying is sound, some of wreck is sound. Higher property tax? Thats the worst solution

@Niall Dunne: it’s tack. They obviously didn’t teach you that in your Masters. Masters are 10 a penny now.
Out of interest what’s your masters in?

@joe: His masters is in ‘Wallowing in Self Pity’. Time to bite the bullet Niall & move out of Dublin.

@popeye Doyle: I work abroad 7 days a week and only took my first 2 days off in 4 months last weekend. I got told by wise people last week that I am saving for a house price in Ireland that no longer exists. So I may as well just stay where I am with my savings made abroad until the powers that be actually do something about a nearly decade long housing crisis. Fine Gael just isn’t trying

@popeye Doyle: ohhhh a blue Peter badge for you

@John fitzpatrick: whats your solution. 60% of the population of Dublin, who work hard and studied who earn average wages sharing apartments for the rest of their lives so the top 10% can buy their new BMWs? Households with 150,000 are the top 10% they need to pay more or else we may as well go back to feudal times

@Niall Dunne: their already paying 40% of their wages and that’s before every other tax. They already most of the PAYE in the country. Your typical of people that want to tax success. I already gave you my solution and it’s not tax the people that’s are already taxed enough. What you going to call your tax “the success tax”. Do you ever wonder why our left wing parties in Ireland only get 3 or 4 % of the vote. People are sick and tired of taxes on the people.

@John fitzpatrick: our left wing parties get between 40 and 50 percent of the vote.

If you’re that bad on percentages how do you know how much you’re being taxed ?

@Shazam37: who do class as left wing. Not FF or FG. Last I heard they had a huge majority together. Throw in most of the independents , still not left wing. SF, more of a we’ll say anything for votes party( as they all are really) Labour like to think they are left wing until they are in government , then they are what ever their government partners are. Greens , they just want to be in government . Not sure what they are.
That just leaves the Murphy’s of the world who I would class as through left wing. And as for getting taxed , I learned how to read my pay check when I started work at 16 and done so every single week or month since then. Now if you think FF and FG are left wing that’s a whole other debate.

@John fitzpatrick: I agree, 150k seems a lot, but they are taxed to the hilt

@John fitzpatrick: silly stuff John. Labour Sinn Fein the Greens the Social Democrats PBP Solidarity are all parties of the traditional left. You can argue about their record but None have ever led a government. That’s 40 % or the electorate voting traditional left. A damn sight more that 3-4% which is what you originally – ludicrously – claimed.

Your analysis of each of the parties is deeply self serving nonsense. “Oh Sinn Fein are just a “well say anything party” therefore they’re not a party of the left. Pfft. then you say “they’re all like that” – ok then. FG and FF are just a “well say anything party” and so I can just as easily claim they’re not parties of the Right! Using your absurd logic.

FFFGLab are above all else ESTABLISHMENT parties. Self serving and interested only in power for powers sake. What they do with power economically however is very different. FG is right wing. Lab left wing as far as lining the pockets of trade unions goes. Socially progressive. FF usually campaigns left and governs right. They go whatever way the wind is blowing well for themselves. Though given the choice they love the smell of money and will adhere to neoliberal politics. So – right wing. Greens are green – something no right wing party in the world is.

All the rest – they haven’t been in power – but their policies are left. And 40% of the public are voting for them.

@Shazam37: SF got 14% or so last time. Labour about 7% Greens 4% or less. SD something under 3% . I would debate Labour ( row in with majority in power)or Greens ( tax everyone with no regard for circumstances )as left wing parties. SF, agreed left of center but that’s it. There’s only 1 or two truly left wing parties in this country when we compare to other countries definition of the left or socialist and they get 4% or so. And maybe I’m wrong on calculations but all the above do not come near 40% even if they were all left leaning which I don’t believe they are. But hey opinions are like rear ends , we all have them.

@Marie Agnew: yep that couple pay 60k a year in direct taxes, before they pay their rent or mortgage. They also pay for their kids in pre school like others , pay all the other absurd taxes everyone else pays, pay medical bills, if their lucky they pay into a pension . But hey let’s tax them a bit more because they have done OK in life. Governments are great eh? Turn the people against each other while letting the real money makers and tax avoiders away Scott free. Making people think that other normal people are the problem.

@John fitzpatrick: you’re original point was and I Quote – left wing parties only get 3-4 percent.

Now you’re saying SF are a Left party and they got 14%. The SD another 3%. Greens 4%. Left over 20% now. Absurd “debating” Labour. What are they of not Left wing? Right wing? You think trade unionist parties are of the right? That’s another 7% taking us to 28%. Add in the PbF and Solidarity and theyre over 30.

So – factoring Independents as a mixed bag you have one third of the electorate voting left.

You can make ludicrous claims like 3-4% to justify your threadbare point on taxation all you like but it’s empty rhetoric. “Oh they’re not really a left wing party” Pffft. What are they then?

I could just as easily make the argument FF aren’t a right wing party By the same weak logic.