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Does my Irish passport (and citizenship) still give me the same rights as Irish citizens born in the Republic of Ireland?
My question to you is do we need to move south so we can be proper citizens of our own land?
SEVERAL QUERIES WERE sent to the Irish government from people concerned about the implications of the DeSouza ruling on their citizenship status.
Derry woman Emma DeSouza won a case against the UK’s Home Office in 2017 after it deemed she was British when her US-born husband Jake applied for a residence card, with the judge in that tribunal arguing that the Good Friday Agreement “supersedes” British domestic law: “Nationality cannot therefore be imposed upon them at birth.”
But on 14 October, an immigration tribunal upheld an appeal brought by the Home Office, and argued in its decision that “a person’s nationality cannot depend in law on an undisclosed state of mind”.
This decision is now being appealed by DeSouza; the Irish government also supports the DeSouzas’ argument, with Taoiseach Leo Varadkar stating in the Dáil that Emma DeSouza “is an Irish citizen”.
In a number of records released to TheJournal.ie under a Freedom of Information request, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade officials are seen writing to one another about the calls.
“A mentioned on the phone,” one official wrote to another on 17 October, “we are getting a few calls/emails from the public who are concerned about the implications of the DeSouza verdict on their Irish citizenship.”
Emailed queries
Among the emailed queries sent to the Department between 14-29 October is one from a person who hopes that their “anxiety” in relation to the DeSouza verdict “is misplaced”:
“I am an Irish citizen… A reading of a summary of the DeSouza case suggests to me that in UK law I am considered a British citizen, and that the UK does not recognise my Irishness until if/when I relinquish/disown it.”
In other correspondence, an official says that they “got a call with a similar query from a Northern Ireland born Irish citizen asking a similar question”, this being ‘what effect does the DeSouza case have on Irish citizenship’.
On 15 October, a citizen wrote a lengthy email addressed to Taoiseach Leo Varadkar about the verdict: “I am writing to you because I am really upset about the ruling of the immigration tribunal court in the UK about Irish citizens living in the north of Ireland”.
This is unacceptable. I don’t want to be a British citizen. I am Irish and I travel on an Irish passport, as did my mother and grandmother before me.
How many others in the north of Ireland identify as Irish citizens? I’m sure they don’t all want to be British! Is there anything you can do to help with this?
The writer said that they were concerned about “the uncertainty of Brexit” and now the DeSouza ruling. “These problems are causing tensions in my community which has been relatively peaceful since the 1998 Good Friday Agreement.”
“I don’t know what to do to protect my sons. They have never seen The Troubles here… I don’t ever want them to go [through] anything like the suffering of The Troubles.”
So my question to you is do we need to move south so we can be proper citizens of our own land?
On 15 October, a person sent a query into the Irish embassy in Rome:
“I have just become aware of the British High Court ruling that all people born in Northern Ireland are British citizens by default. I have come here on my Irish passport. Do we need residency asap?”
When the reply said that all Irish citizens travelling or living in Italy have to register with the embassy on the DFA website, the person replied on 17 October:
I’m basically looking to clarify that this British High Court ruling hasn’t affected the requirements or rights for me as an Irish citizen.
“Does my Irish passport (and citizenship) still give me the same rights as Irish citizens born in the Republic of Ireland?”
DeSouza has accused the UK Government of failing to implement the provisions of Good Friday Agreement into UK domestic law. She said her case will have implications for EU citizens post-Brexit.
Response from the Irish Government
In response to a query from TheJournal.ie, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, a spokesperson said that it had received a number of representations from members of the public.
“Irish citizenship is a matter of Irish law and applies regardless of residency. Irish citizenship is unaffected by the ongoing DeSouza case in the UK courts,” it said.
The Citizenship and Identity provisions of the Good Friday Agreement are central to the Good Friday Agreement and it is vital that they are upheld. The Government has consistently engaged with the British Government in support of this, and continues to do so.
“The Taoiseach has raised the De Souza case with the British Prime Minister and has confirmed that he will do so again following the UK general election. The Tánaiste has discussed the matter with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland on a number of occasions, most recently on 14 November. The Tánaiste has written to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and the British Home Secretary to formally ask that the review that was mandated be urgently concluded to provide an outcome that is consistent with the letter and spirit of the Good Friday Agreement.
In February, then Prime Minister Theresa May acknowledged the serious concerns in this area and pledged to ‘review the issues around citizenship urgently to deliver a long term solution consistent with the letter and spirit’ of the Agreement.
In this context, the decision of the Tribunal in the De Souza case on 14 October does not define the extent of the British Government’s obligations under the Good Friday Agreement.
In the Good Friday Agreement, both the UK and Irish governments “recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both” and “confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments”.
“The Good Friday Agreement therefore,” the Department statement continues, “includes an explicit right to both Irish and British citizenship, and an explicit right of people to identify and be accepted as Irish or British or both.
It is imperative that people in Northern Ireland have confidence in these provisions of the Agreement, in letter and in spirit. To provide for that, a positive outcome to the review mandated by the British Government is now urgently needed.
“A sensitive and generous approaches by the British Government are needed to ensure that the right of people in Northern Ireland to identify as Irish, or British, or both is meaningfully provided for in all relevant policy areas. The Government will continue to strongly pursue this with the British Government, as a co-guarantor of the Good Friday Agreement.”
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Europe needs change , the current policy isn’t working, politicians sit in their’s expensive houses, in expensive neighbourhoods… ordinary citizens have to deal with havoc of open borders
@michal heba: Havoc? Grow up.
@michal heba: you’re anti-immigrants gained zero support. While “open border” parties dominated. Your lot lost.
@9QRixo8H: Not in Austria, apparently! Sooner or later, Ireland will wake up to the consequences of unfettered illegal migration.
@frank dowling:
There was a fella from Austria a while back who was fairly far right. The early1940′s were a diificult time for Europe due to his beliefs. I wouldn’t look to Austria for guidance in this matter. It didn’t end well the last time.
@Paul O Connor: sure your man from Austria wasn’t far right, he was just a concerned citizen!
@9QRixo8H: a semiliterate comment if I ever saw one and an example of the level of intellect that supports open borders.
Here, I hope this helps youse
’Your’ is a possessive adjective that is used to describe something as belonging to ‘you’. ’You’re’ is a contraction of ‘you are’. Almost always followed by a gerund or a noun.
@Thomas Sheridan: guess who else supported ‘open border’ parties? The ENTIRE nation.
@frank dowling: Absolutely
@Paul O Connor: There was another guy from Georgia knocking around at the time, from the opposite end of the political scale, and he was great fun at a party!
@9QRixo8H: in local elections, tf are they supposed to do when it come to border issues
@frank dowling: Agree. When the situation gets out of control like the rest of Europe then we’ll wake up.
Too much left wing wokeism around in this country at the moment without looking at the real problems this will bring in the near future
@michal heba: that’s what the far right do, if anyone voting far right thinks it will sort their problems, they are in for a rude awakening
@Damien O’Sullivan: Look up what being woke means. If you’re perceived meaning is the opposite of woke then you’re the problem.
@michal heba: Don’t notice any havoc.
A slow rise on right leaning politics across Europe in general. This will trigger many commentators here but it’s evident that Europeans are becoming increasingly disillusioned with the ability of their existing political party’s to deal with the huge problem that is mass immigration. Ireland isn’t alone here, the problems we see in every town, village and city in Ireland….are evident in most other country’s across Europe. We need a zero tolerance, hard-line policy on immigration. No the half baked process we currently have in place. Deportation needs to swift and final.
@Mick Joe: Or neoliberal policies and the rich becoming richer at the expense of everyone else is squeezing the majority and some are taking the convenient bait of blaming vulnerable migrants rather than understanding the actual reason.
The mass migration sentiment receive zero mandate from the entire nation. Not a seat did the anti-immigrant parties get. Migration is an issue to *you*, not the people. “Open border” FFG won.
@Rochelle Hart: You’re conflating
@9QRixo8H: SF vote went down from 25% in the 2020 GE and 35% support last October to a mere 12% this week. What could have caused this collapse. Surely not their brave open borders rhetoric?
@Thomas Sheridan: Except it is not SF that have been responsible for any immigration Ireland has.
It has been FFG, with The Greens and Labour before that.
By all accounts, those FFG parties have done rather well in these elections, although the full results are not yet known.
I’ve been a frequent traveler to Germany and have seen how the landscape has changed massively in the last 10 years – public pools have almost become no go for young women and signs have been put up in Arabic that it’s not ok to harass women. Very weird to see groups of bearded men standing on corners in small eastern German towns. On the other hand, food options have improved and Germans are speaking more English than before
I’d say the article below where FG migrants were elected has you foaming with hate.
@9QRixo8H: Not really – the key is contribution and integration – any migrants that contribute and integrate always add to the economy and a nation. It’s the silos and ghettos and the ‘us vs them’ crowd that causes trouble. Most successful countries have healthy immigrant communities ( Healthcare professionals in Ireland from Philippines/India, Tech Professionals in Silicon valley from around the world, Manufacturing workers in the UK from Eastern Europe etc). The problem arises with a small subset of migrants who never want to venture out of their tribe for religious or other reasons ( like moving to a country to purely leech)
@9QRixo8H: and so it should bent elections
Anyone less than a standard deviation left of center is far right. It gets monotonous.
@Oh Mammy: FFG are right wing.
Those to the right of FFG are tending to the far right, depending on just how nasty they are.
Honest question – why is right always ‘far right ‘ but left is just left and not ‘far left ‘?
There’s loonie bins in the far right who want want everyone deported but there’s also same loonies in far left who want everyone welcomed in because john Lennon sang about it
@Kush OMeara: not true. PBP are far left. FF and FG are centre right. Niall Boylan is right wing, SF are “whatever you’re havin’ yourself” and Derek Blighe is far right.
Far right is a relative term. With popularity in the UK, Netherlands, France, Germany, Switzerland and Austria it begs the question as to whether they are truly far right or are some left leaning people unable to process alternative positions.
@Lewis Armstrong: in “The Road to Wigan Pier” Orwell explains why disillusioned left wingers were turning to fascism. Writing in 1937, he blamed the intellectual “crank leftists” for alienating the ordinary people and driving to the right. Fast forward to today and we have a name for those cranks – “Wokes” and they’re making the same mistake.
Those who don’t learn the mistakes of history..etc
@Lewis Armstrong: possibly slightly to the left, but leaning on the shoulder of the “traditional” right. Not much more than that. Although they’ll have to if they want to gain more seats and govern.
They’re very good at marketing themselves, and at highlighting the (perceived in places, real in others) islamisation of society. This goes down well with the electorate in general. Even left thinking friends of mine are veering to the far right when Daesh’s “lone wolf” attacks are amplified.
@Fran Ken: Why can’t you allow people to just get on with their lives?
Are you really such a snowflake that how someone chooses to live drives you nuts?
Calling someone who is bothered by how others choose to live their lives ‘woke’ simple shows us a great deal about you.
(And you probably call yourself a Christian too.)
@Lewis Armstrong: That’s about right, by the any historic standards neo liberal FFG are far right. The censorship of opposition speech tagged as misinformation and hate speech and closing of comments that oppose their narrative is typical of1930’s style far right parties,
How depressing. The EU is following the US down the right wing toilet.
@Sandra Duffy: been forced
The liberal elite in Europe hasn’t listened to the people for decades it’s no wonder people are turning in desperation to the far right. The old boys network that’s ruled western countries ( f.f f.g) are getting a bloody nose and quite frankly they deserve it.
Sure Hitler is from Austria, something in the water over there
@Sean Money: Austria has long been a reservoir of the far-right.
The death camps were a result of academic politics, so somehow, wider society manages to ignore the role the academic community plays in maintaining prejudice by trying to hide natural selection behind eugenics or social darwinism.
Yesterday, A commenter said I should take my views to one of the prominent Universities in Ireland; however, I was always content to remain with commenters here even if they find it difficult to stomach what natural selection actually looks like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy_xWKJubuY&t=3s
So there is no far right and far left, just cowardice, silence and watching comments erased.
@Gerald Kelleher: I hope that all the journal Hamas supporters will take the time to watch the linked video and realise that the Hamas forefathers were only too willing to collaborate with the Nazi regimes.
@Thomas Sheridan:
The Nazi regime was neo-darwinist.
https://www.azquotes.com/author/12265-Cecil_Rhodes
The worst part of it is that the Victorians derived their ideology from the neighbouring islands of Britain and Ireland and that nobody will face and I mean nobody.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Descent_of_Man_(Darwin)/Chapter_V
With SS levels of compliance to Vuctorian natural selection, how could the world be any other way?
@Thomas Sheridan: stupid comment
@Thomas Sheridan: The Palestinians are simply trying to defend themselves from the israeli colonist.
As we would do if what the isreali have done to the Palestinian were done to us.
As any would do.
Immigration .. immigration and politicians and profiting from immigration
Great news
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